Patriot League 2013

[DFW HOYA]

Where do people see the 2013 race?

[Pard4Life]

1. Fordham
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Lehigh
5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

[Go Green]

5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

I hope that's true for the foreseeable future, given that those are the only PL teams on Dartmouth's schedule through 2015.

[Southsider]

1. Fordham
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Lehigh
5. Holy Cross
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

Lafayette too high......Lehigh too low.xthumbsupx

[CFBfan]

Lafayette too high......Lehigh too low.xthumbsupx

FU: 4 schollie classes and a very good HC payoff
Gate: A lot back and a repeat title
LU
Cross
GU: last respectable campaign in the PL
LC
BU

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Fordham was better last year, but were they THAT much better? Had their PL games "counted" they would have been 3-3.

Colgate returns their starting QB. Not so Fordham.

[CFBfan]

Fordham was better last year, but were they THAT much better? Had their PL games "counted" they would have been 3-3.

Colgate returns their starting QB. Not so Fordham.

I would not take lightly that this is Mooreheads 2nd year....he's a very good coach and has now established HIS program.....

[Lehigh'98]

Colgate 1, Lehigh 2........Just the fact that they return the QB and Lehigh has to travel to Hamilton I give them the edge.

Fordham is improved, but they are still Fordham.

Lafayette will look like champs some weeks, then will get thoroughly out coached in others.

HC is a wild card as always.

Bucknell, G'town need to show some improvement on offense before they can be taken seriously.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh's offense will be good. The OL will be beastly and the skill players are very talented. Cech will get the QB to perform.

The biggest question is on defense and its ability to handle big, physical teams.

The continuity in the coaching staff and talented offense will keep the Hawks in the league/playoff race.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

1A. Colgate - gettin LU on the tundra
1B. Lehigh - motivation, offense, OL
2. Fordham - good talent base
3. Holy Cross - build off of '12 finish
4. Lafayette - suspect line play, no show at times
5. Bucknell - still need more talent
6. Georgetown - things are about to get ugly

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh's spring prospectus.


The Lehigh football program enjoyed another outstanding
season in 2012. The Mountain Hawks posted their third
consecutive ten win season, finishing at 10-1. Lehigh won
its first nine games, and ran its regular season winning
streak to an FCS-best 18 straight. A home loss to Colgate
cost the Mountain Hawks their third straight Patriot
League title, but Lehigh rebounded the next week to defeat
arch rival Lafayette 38-21 in Easton, for its fifth
consecutive win over the Leopards. Despite its 10-1
record, Lehigh was denied an at-large berth to the NCAA
FCS playoffs, causing an abrupt end for an outstanding
senior class that won back-to-back Patriot League titles
and posted a 31-6 record with two playoff wins over their
last three seasons.

http://www.lehighsports.com/sports/football/2013_lehigh_football_spring_prospectus.aspx

[carney2]

1. FORDHAM - All offense, but with better on field discipline, the best of another mediocre lot.

1A. LAFAYETTE - Finally solving the dastardly OL problem. Pards won't look good early, but will be OK when they pick on folks their own size.

2. LEHIGH - Lots of holes to fill, but some talent returning. Another soft schedule should yield a decent record.

3. COLGATE - The Raiders have McCarney and...what? Too many holes to repeat.

4. GEORGETOWN - The window has closed and they wait to get passed by scholarships.

5. HOLY CROSS - The worst team I saw last year. Should be improved, but...

6. BUCKNELL - 2012 proved that Buffaloes don't win with defense alone.

[RichH2]

No lock down favorite. Gate has edge w best returning Qb, but OL decimated.LU has OL but lost qb,wr,te,rb. LC has potential star in qb & solid D.FU ,no qb but good coaches & solid talent basis. HC &BU both capable. Cross needs speed, BU finally getting some size but lack depth & good qb. GU dangerous.Starters good ,lack depth.
Expect LU to be in it ,inexperience makes for up & down year. Do want to stomp Gate.

[CFBfan]

No lock down favorite. Gate has edge w best returning Qb, but OL decimated.LU has OL but lost qb,wr,te,rb. LC has potential star in qb & solid D.FU ,no qb but good coaches & solid talent basis. HC &BU both capable. Cross needs speed, BU finally getting some size but lack depth & good qb. GU dangerous.Starters good ,lack depth.
Expect LU to be in it ,inexperience makes for up & down year. Do want to stomp Gate.

Several "FU has no QB" comments BUT keep in mind that they have a xfer fron U Conn

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FU does have the UConn transfer QB. I forgot if he was injured last season or if the senior flat-out outplayed him. Either way, it's a new guy in the most critical position on the field, the same issue Lehigh has.

[CFBfan]

my recollection is he wasn't there last season?

[RichH2]

Aware of transfer. Transfer from FBs is not a warranty of success particularly at QB. For now, see no reason to give Rams a boost until he wins starting job AND performs. Perhaps he will. HC in 2nd yr rebuild. Rams will be that much better. If D gets some disvipline and he finds a Qb, I would not be surprised to see FU get an at large bid.

[Sader87]

1. FORDHAM - All offense, but with better on field discipline, the best of another mediocre lot.

1A. LAFAYETTE - Finally solving the dastardly OL problem. Pards won't look good early, but will be OK when they pick on folks their own size.

2. LEHIGH - Lots of holes to fill, but some talent returning. Another soft schedule should yield a decent record.

3. COLGATE - The Raiders have McCarney and...what? Too many holes to repeat.

4. GEORGETOWN - The window has closed and they wait to get passed by scholarships.

5. HOLY CROSS - The worst team I saw last year. Should be improved, but...

6. BUCKNELL - 2012 proved that Buffaloes don't win with defense alone.

Far and away our worst league game last year. HC may have been 2-9 last year but it was a very good (if such a thing exists) 2-9: Brown 21-24, Dartmouth 10-13, Colgate 35-51, Fordham 32-36, Lehigh 35-36 and Wagner 30-31.

Lot of starters back on both sides of the ball...not saying they are going to win the PL next year just yet....but barring injuries, I think they will be right in the mix.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Far and away our worst league game last year. HC may have been 2-9 last year but it was a very good (if such a thing exists) 2-9: Brown 21-24, Dartmouth 10-13, Colgate 35-51, Fordham 32-36, Lehigh 35-36 and Wagner 30-31.

Lot of starters back on both sides of the ball...not saying they are going to win the PL next year just yet....but barring injuries, I think they will be right in the mix.

2-9 is a big hole to climb out of. I think Gilmore can get back to 6-5/7-4 this year which would be a heckuva turnaround.

I don't believe the talent level is that high in Worcester. Rather, Gilmore is great at putting his kids in a position to succeed.

[van]

I picked Gate to lead the pack with Fordham a very close second, however my Gate pick is sole based on their QB and if he is not healthy all year look out. Lehigh has too many ?? on D to suit me right now. Don't see any reason to think Pards, Buffs, Hoyas or Crossers will be that much different from last year.

[Fordham]

FU does have the UConn transfer QB. I forgot if he was injured last season or if the senior flat-out outplayed him. Either way, it's a new guy in the most critical position on the field, the same issue Lehigh has.

He came in at the end of camp and basically split time with Higgins in every game until he went out with a season ending knee injury mid-way through the year (Cornell I think?) He's a much better fit for Moorhead's O given his scrambling ability. Just hope he stays healthy.

We also have Griffin Murphy, another talented scrambler, back from missing last year due to injury after he played a lot the previous year under Massella. Oddly, much of it was at wing and RB (Massella said he was too good an athlete to keep off the field). Also returning is the Peter Maetzold who was the first true frosh to start for us in decades when he opened up v UCONN in Massella's last season. Too bad he was thrown to the wolves so quickly. Finally, add in incoming highly rated frosh Brandon Fields and we are absolutely fine IMO.

Improving the D, staying healthy with our ridiculously thin OL and finding a punter/kicker concern me much more. We also have a very ambitious schedule. I love it but we have to come ready to play each week as there is no Lock Haven to open the season this year.

Good to see some PL talk around here finally! Nice work, DFW!

[jimbo65]

FU does have the UConn transfer QB. I forgot if he was injured last season or if the senior flat-out outplayed him. Either way, it's a new guy in the most critical position on the field, the same issue Lehigh has.
The QB was injured for virtually the entire year but he had no guarantee to be the starter anyway. He is joined this year by a transfer receiver from UConn. We also have a frosh QB from Louisianna who supposedly has talent. My mistake, he was injured part way through.

[Pard4Life]

If I recall correctly, Colgate had Sullivan returning in 2011, with their other parts decimated like this year. They also had Eachus. However, their defense was also very poor and they had a unspectacular 2011. The defense is obviously key to any team, but those OL were the absolute reason why that offense ran with such precision and lethal force in 2012. Take that and away and.... I just don't see Colgate being title worthy... but they will not be in the bottom third.

Lehigh should fare better (if the QB works out) because like Lafayette, the RB and WR are for the most part plug-n-play. I'd be more concerned about losing the defensive stars.

I actually agree with c2: the Pards are well on their way to fixing their issues and OL will be cohesive for the first time since... 2009? We have the best LB in the PL, and a solid secondary. A major question is DL.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh's biggest question is without a doubt on defense, more specifically the DL. Chagani will be the toughest person to replace imo. I'd argue he was the best interior lineman Lehigh has had in the last 20 years. There are some returning DL with experience but they're all on the small side.

The secondary should be pretty good and the LB's solid. Muhammad is a legit difference maker.

[Go...gate]

I'm intrigued by how Georgetown will fare in this situation. One never knows. If they have some coaches who know how to recruit and they receive a little cooperation from their admissions and financial aid offices, they might do just fine, at least in the short term.

[Go...gate]

I picked Fordham to win and Lehigh as runner-up. Colgate has some work to do. I believe that Holy Cross will rebound.

[DFW HOYA]

I'm intrigued by how Georgetown will fare in this situation. One never knows.

For those that know more about the AI bands than I would, Georgetown's average SAT's went up over 30 points this year. Middle 50% is now between 1360 and 1540.

Put another way, one in four entering students are between 1540 and 1600.

[Go...gate]

Colgate's improved a little bit, as well.

[Pard4Life]

For those that know more about the AI bands than I would, Georgetown's average SAT's went up over 30 points this year. Middle 50% is now between 1360 and 1540.

Put another way, one in four entering students are between 1540 and 1600.

This has to be on the 2400 scale, yes? Harvard doesn't have those numbers for its regular students.

[RichH2]

Impressive. Agree GU using all 3 parys of College Bd. Wonder whether it makes any difference for AI?

[DFW HOYA]

This has to be on the 2400 scale, yes? Harvard doesn't have those numbers for its regular students.

Out of 1600. Georgetown does not use the writing sample because there are essays within its own application.

Harvard's data set has a middle 50% of 1390-1590.

[ngineer]

Lehigh's biggest question is without a doubt on defense, more specifically the DL. Chagani will be the toughest person to replace imo. I'd argue he was the best interior lineman Lehigh has had in the last 20 years. There are some returning DL with experience but they're all on the small side.

The secondary should be pretty good and the LB's solid. Muhammad is a legit difference maker.

I spoke w/Chagani and he was very high on his back up this year, who I heard last week is now in the 280 lb range. I think there is a lot of talent on defense, but light on experience. I'll take talent any day. Defense is not complicated. I'm looking forward to the frosh PK from FL. A solid PK in a league that I see as wide open will make the difference in many close games. The only two teams I see as not being in the hunt are Bucknell and Georgetown.


Lehigh
Fordham
Colgate
Lafayette
Holy Cross
Bucknell
Georgetown

[UNH Fanboi]

For those that know more about the AI bands than I would, Georgetown's average SAT's went up over 30 points this year. Middle 50% is now between 1360 and 1540.

Put another way, one in four entering students are between 1540 and 1600.

Where did you get those numbers?

[carney2]

I actually agree with c2: the Pards are well on their way to fixing their issues and OL will be cohesive for the first time since... 2009? We have the best LB in the PL, and a solid secondary. A major question is DL.

You and I are both overlooking one of Lafayette's most serious weaknesses - the Frankosaurus, the man who, among other not so amazing feats, invented the prevent offense.

[Sader87]

Lovin' the fact that not many are thinking HC will be in the mix...really think they are going to surprise. Should be a wide open league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Georgetown's problem is that they lose the PL Defensive POY (LB Robert McCabe) and another guy who should have been a close second (CB Jeremy Moore). They don't appear to have guys that can fill those shoes easily. If they find their replacements then they'll be in the mix like everyone else.

As solid as McCabe was at linebacker, I saw Moore as a huge difference-maker on that defense. I will NOT miss him in the slightest.

[DFW HOYA]

Where did you get those numbers?

Most schools maintain online what is known as a "common data set", or basic information on enrollment, admissions, majors etc. that reference guides like US News, Barron's, etc. can cite consistently.

Georgetown's numbers are from the following news release:

http://www.georgetown.edu/news/undergraduate-applications-class-of-2017.html

[carney2]

Lovin' the fact that not many are thinking HC will be in the mix...really think they are going to surprise. Should be a wide open league.

"Wide open" does not begin to describe it. I'd even give Bucknell a remote (very remote) chance because no one is going to be all that good. My Q&D odds, excluding Fordham who are once again and inconceivably excluded from reaping any rewards:

Lafayette = 28%
Lehigh = 27%
Colgate = 15%
Georgetown = 12.5%
Holy Cross = 12.5%
Bucknell = 5%

[RichH2]

Love your numbers. Does PARD % account for the Tavani Constant Factor?

[Go...gate]

Just remembered that Fordham is not eligible for the title. Makes no sense at all, IMO.

[LUHawker]

Lovin' the fact that not many are thinking HC will be in the mix...really think they are going to surprise. Should be a wide open league.

I think you said the same stuff last year. I was on record as consistently asking why certain folks were so high on the Cross last year, and nothing has changed to suggest a real improvement. I do think the Saders were vexed last year, so I expect another couple of wins, but no contention for the title.

[Franks Tanks]

You and I are both overlooking one of Lafayette's most serious weaknesses - the Frankosaurus, the man who, among other not so amazing feats, invented the prevent offense.

The Frank factor cannot be overlooked. As we've discussed Frank is good for 1-2 head scratching never should've happened losses a year. The Frank factor always reduces Lafayette's championship chances at least several % points.

I believe Lafayette, Lehigh, Colgate and Fordham all have a chance to win the league (asterik next to Fordham of course) Holy Cross, Bucknell and Georgetown appears to have more work to do, but anything can happen.

Lafayette may not belong in the 1st tier, but we have so many starters returning it will be hard not to be better than last year, but we may find a way.

[carney2]

Love your numbers. Does PARD % account for the Tavani Constant Factor?

The Frankosaurus Factor is like the Hubble Constant and the ultimate untruncated value of Pi - not capable of calculation. Is it in there? Yes...and no. Is it a major factor? Yes...and no. Will it affect the final results? Did General Ambrose Burnside's (generally acknowledged as the worst general in U.S. history) presence at the Battle of Fredericksburg affect the outcome? With The Frankosaurus pacing the sidelines even Robert Morris University is a legitimate threat.

[breezy]

I think you said the same stuff last year. I was on record as consistently asking why certain folks were so high on the Cross last year, and nothing has changed to suggest a real improvement. I do think the Saders were vexed last year, so I expect another couple of wins, but no contention for the title.

You may be right (which is what makes boards like this such fun). However, HC suffered four late-game losses last year (Brown, Dartmouth, Fordham, Wagner) that could have gone the other way if a key play or two had been made. More significantly, HC's starting QB suffered a season-ending injury in the 2nd game of the year and HC then had to rely on two QBs who had no game experience and did not have the opportunity to be groomed as starters during the pre-season. Much of the season was a learning experience for them. There were other season-ending injuries to key players on both offense and defense (and I concede that all teams have to deal with injuries). There were serious defensive deficiencies that still have to be overcome.

In 2013, HC returns something like 16 starters from last season. HC will have experienced QBs ready to go, an OL buttressed by 3 returning 5th-year seniors, and talented RBs and WRs. The DL, which relied heavily on freshmen for depth last year, will have a solid group of returnees. The success of the season will depend on the LB and DB corps -- 6 out of 8 starters return, and if the play at those positions improves, HC has the potential to compete for the league title.

[van]

Lotta love for Lehigh, lot of starters to be replaced. Wish I was that confident.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lotta love for Lehigh, lot of starters to be replaced. Wish I was that confident.

I think everyone is facing their own issues. Coen has done a great job of recruiting so there's no shortage of talent on the roster. Also, keeping Cecchini another year is huge imo. The continuity within the program is a huge asset.

IMO, the offense is going to be very good. Colvin was a square peg in a round hole and they made it work. Also, the team saw last year what it was going to be like without Spadola, Haggins and Barket. Give me an experienced and deep OL, along with Kurfis, Fernendez-Soto, Parris, Knott, Coyle, Sherman, Sodeke etc and even I can put up 28 points a game.

The front seven on defense is really the only big question mark imo.

The schedule is also quite favorable again.

[Engineer86]

The schedule is also quite favorable again.

As we saw last year the schedule only means it gives you some games to win while you work out the kinks. With our schedule, it is win the PL or enjoy the Thanksgiving turkey.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

As we saw last year the schedule only means it gives you some games to win while you work out the kinks. With our schedule, it is win the PL or enjoy the Thanksgiving turkey.

The playoffs are expanded to 24 teams this year and there's no App State or GSU to contend with. I think there's a "decent" chance the PL gets two teams in this year.

The schedule isn't as easy as it was last year but it's favorable. UNH should give it a boost in the computer rankings. The Wildcats should be preseason Top 15 but not world beaters. Their defense has been horrendous the last two years so i look at it as a winnable game since it's at home. Plus, having 6 road games somewhat offsets having Columbia on the slate. Even so, there's no reason to have a home and home with Lions imo. Hopefully either Monmouth or CCSU will make a run in the NEC. I also think Princeton is once again headed in the right direction.

Ranking Lehigh's schedule 11-1, 11 being toughest...
11 - @ Fordham - going to be ready for war
10 - UNH - good team, not a great team imo
9 - Lafayette - 6 in a row will be tough, but it's been done before xnodx
8 - @ Colgate - The frozen tundra is always tough
7 - @ Princeton - the Tigers always give LU headaches
6 - Holy Cross - HC always plays LU tough
5 - CCSU - should bounce back from a rough season
4 - @ Bucknell - 16 in a row should become 17
3 - Georgetown - they lost a lot but it's a league game
2 - @ Monmouth - they graduated everyone
1 - @ Columbia - the bottom of the barrel in FCS

[RichH2]

I Owl's breakdown. No our schedule not overwhelming and expanded playoffs do make it more possible foe 2 from PL ( altho think power conferences more likely to just get more teams).

Breezy ,
Yup all true and I expect Cross to be as well coached as ever. QB will alleviate one major concern. Lack of team speed on O and more particularly on D more relevant. Unless qb is Dom II another middling yr.

[heath]

1A. Colgate - gettin LU on the tundra
1B. Lehigh - motivation, offense, OL
2. Fordham - good talent base
3. Holy Cross - build off of '12 finish
4. Lafayette - suspect line play, no show at times
5. Bucknell - still need more talent
6. Georgetown - things are about to get ugly

+ 1 The best review out there-might even make a few games this year

[heath]

If I recall correctly, Colgate had Sullivan returning in 2011, with their other parts decimated like this year. They also had Eachus. However, their defense was also very poor and they had a unspectacular 2011. The defense is obviously key to any team, but those OL were the absolute reason why that offense ran with such precision and lethal force in 2012. Take that and away and.... I just don't see Colgate being title worthy... but they will not be in the bottom third.

Lehigh should fare better (if the QB works out) because like Lafayette, the RB and WR are for the most part plug-n-play. I'd be more concerned about losing the defensive stars.

I actually agree with c2: the Pards are well on their way to fixing their issues and OL will be cohesive for the first time since... 2009? We have the best LB in the PL, and a solid secondary. A major question is DL.

Once again you guys forget the past, and blow smoke early on................then start making excuses and blaming the coach. Look for a repeat this year.xconfusedx

[Pard4Life]

Once again you guys forget the past, and blow smoke early on................then start making excuses and blaming the coach. Look for a repeat this year.xconfusedx

Mr. Heath, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Go...gate]

I Owl's breakdown. No our schedule not overwhelming and expanded playoffs do make it more possible foe 2 from PL ( altho think power conferences more likely to just get more teams).

Breezy ,
Yup all true and I expect Cross to be as well coached as ever. QB will alleviate one major concern. Lack of team speed on O and more particularly on D more relevant. Unless qb is Dom II another middling yr.

I think PL gets two teams in this year.

[UNH Fanboi]

Most schools maintain online what is known as a "common data set", or basic information on enrollment, admissions, majors etc. that reference guides like US News, Barron's, etc. can cite consistently.

Georgetown's numbers are from the following news release:

http://www.georgetown.edu/news/undergraduate-applications-class-of-2017.html

Ok, there are several major problems with your use of those numbers. You said:

"For those that know more about the AI bands than I would, Georgetown's average SAT's went up over 30 points this year. Middle 50% is now between 1360 and 1540.

Put another way, one in four entering students are between 1540 and 1600."

But the press release says:

"The middle 50 percent range of accepted students’ SAT Critical Reading score was 680-760, with the math portion at 680-770."

1. "Entering" is completely different than "accepted". The SAT scores of accepted students are significantly higher than the scores of matriculating students;
2. 760 + 770 = 1530, not 1540; and
3. Even if you had added correctly, the 75th percentile of students' total SAT scores does not necessarily equal the sum of the 75th percentile for Math and the 75th percentile for verbal. Consider the following data set (M, V): 0, 100; 1, 99; 2, 98;. . .; 98, 2; 99, 1; 100, 0. The 75th percentile for Math is 75 and the 75th percentile for Verbal is 75, but each student had a total score of 100, so the 75th percentile of the students' total scores is 100, not 150.

Sorry, I'm not trying to attack you. Incorrect use of stats (whether intentional or not) is just a pet peeve of mine.

[DFW HOYA]

I'll defer to your knowledge of statistics and predictive modeling with this caveat: why would SAT scores of accepted students be "significantly higher" than those of matriculating students given the common data set numbers were for enrolled students?

In 2012, the accepted student middle 50% was 680-760
In 2012, the enrolled student middle 50% was 650-750*

Part of this is yield, the other part is that Georgetown has four different undergraduate schools that make their own independent admissions decisions, with four different SAT ranges. More are accepted to Georgetown College (liberal arts), for example, than Business, but the yield may be different with Business students than the College because there are fewer seats for the Business school freshmen (325) than the College (~800).

Now, back to the subject at hand.


*N.B.: The earlier comparison to a 30 point increase was incorrectly applied to accepted students.

[Dave195]

When Monmouth Joins for football in a little bit, they don't have to go Patriot for basketball right? I'd rather stay in the MAAC for bball, better bball conf.

[Go...gate]

When Monmouth Joins for football in a little bit, they don't have to go Patriot for basketball right? I'd rather stay in the MAAC for bball, better bball conf.

No. Thay can certainly be an affiliate member, just as Georgetown and Fordham are. Do you know something we don't?

[Go...gate]

I hasten to add that, IMO, I would have rather had Monmouth than Loyola as an all-sports member in the PL because of (1) football and (2) I think Monmouth (like Marist or Wagner) has a much better potential long-term upside than Loyola, which has never been a particularly distinguished school. I'm familiar with what you guys have going in West Long Branch and it is very promising.

[UNH Fanboi]

I'll defer to your knowledge of statistics and predictive modeling with this caveat: why would SAT scores of accepted students be "significantly higher" than those of matriculating students given the common data set numbers were for enrolled students?

In 2012, the accepted student middle 50% was 680-760
In 2012, the enrolled student middle 50% was 650-750*

Part of this is yield, the other part is that Georgetown has four different undergraduate schools that make their own independent admissions decisions, with four different SAT ranges. More are accepted to Georgetown College (liberal arts), for example, than Business, but the yield may be different with Business students than the College because there are fewer seats for the Business school freshmen (325) than the College (~800).

Now, back to the subject at hand.


*N.B.: The earlier comparison to a 30 point increase was incorrectly applied to accepted students.

A school's accepted range will be higher than its admitted range because admitted students with high scores are more likely to have been admitted to, and attend, a higher ranked school, and admitted students with lower scores are less likely to have been admitted to a higher ranked school. "Significantly" might be a little bit of an overstatement, but all three of your errors are definitely significant when combined. According to the common data set for 2011-2012, Georgetown's ranges for enrolled students are 640-740 and 650-750, so at the absolute highest possible 75th percentile for their combined scores is 1490, but is probably more like 1460. So your stat of 1 in 4 Georgetown students having a combined SAT of 1540-1600 is way off.

Ok, I'm done with hijack.

[Sader87]

The Patriot League: All SAT talk....all the time!!!! Come join the excitement!!!!

[CFBfan]

The Patriot League: All SAT talk....all the time!!!! Come join the excitement!!!!

I'm with you Sader! let's stick to the topic/thread please and stop trying to defend and justify GU's lack of institutional support especialy but not limited to football!! and btw: other then Kelly and his side kick sgarlata the entire staff has been turned over in most cases several times in the last few years. You are not just dealing with a difficult uphill battle for recruits but the ones you do get may not have the best coaching staff around to actualy coach them to their potential!!

[Southsider]

I think everyone is facing their own issues. Coen has done a great job of recruiting so there's no shortage of talent on the roster. Also, keeping Cecchini another year is huge imo. The continuity within the program is a huge asset.

IMO, the offense is going to be very good. Colvin was a square peg in a round hole and they made it work. Also, the team saw last year what it was going to be like without Spadola, Haggins and Barket. Give me an experienced and deep OL, along with Kurfis, Fernendez-Soto, Parris, Knott, Coyle, Sherman, Sodeke etc and even I can put up 28 points a game.

The front seven on defense is really the only big question mark imo.

The schedule is also quite favorable again.

While he was a tough kid, he never really put up great numbers. I have always questioned LU's lack of running game. When we need 2 yards we always seem to come up a yard short. That needs to change if we want to be competitive on a bigger stage.

[RichH2]

The Patriot League: All SAT talk....all the time!!!! Come join the excitement!!!!

We are a bit predictable AI, expansion can arise on any PL thread Boring to outliers, rather essential, even if annoying, to us..
That said both issues are currently dead horses. AI not going away and expansion awaits other shifts in future.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While he was a tough kid, he never really put up great numbers. I have always questioned LU's lack of running game. When we need 2 yards we always seem to come up a yard short. That needs to change if we want to be competitive on a bigger stage.

Barket was hurt and played hurt numerous times during his career, including long stretches during his junior and senior years. That didn't help matters. I'll never forget the look on his face after Georgetown in '11, his leg in an air cast, aching to get back out there.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patriot League: All SAT talk....all the time!!!! Come join the excitement!!!!

Is it true that Patriot League pickup lines include SAT scores? I don't recall using any in my undergraduate days, but I might be mistaken about that. After all, I tried quite a few.

[Sader87]

Is it true that Patriot League pickup lines include SAT scores? I don't recall using any in my undergraduate days, but I might be mistaken about that. After all, I tried quite a few.

I'm still using "What's your major?"....it's working about as well now as it did in 1984.

[carney2]

I think PL gets two teams in this year.

If you're counting Fordham as an at-large, they are almost certainly going to need a minimum 10-2 record with a win over Villanova. If you're not counting Fordham in your comment, it just ain't gonna happen. Look up mediocre in the dictionary and you will see a group shot of this year's Patriot League football teams.

[Franks Tanks]

When Monmouth Joins for football in a little bit, they don't have to go Patriot for basketball right? I'd rather stay in the MAAC for bball, better bball conf.

The PL does not want football only members, although a few of the often named schools (Richmond, Nova, W&M) would probably be invited as a football only member if they asked. In my opinion Monmouth will not be offered football only membership unless Fordham and/or Georgetown leave and we are forced to add a school to stabalize the league. This is not a jab against Monmouth, which is an up and coming school in many ways.

[Sader87]

Worcester T&G HC football Spring practice review:

http://www.telegram.com/article/20130412/NEWS/104129699/1009/sports

[carney2]

Is it true that Patriot League pickup lines include SAT scores? I don't recall using any in my undergraduate days, but I might be mistaken about that. After all, I tried quite a few.

I tried it. Didn't work. Nothing worked. My best line was the oldie, but goodie. "If I told you that you have a great body would you hold it against me?" It got the same results as all the others - zero - but at least it got a few laughs.

[RichH2]

Never had any luck with intentional pick up lines. Did score on remarking to a friend that that girl had a magnificent *ss. Guess it was louder than I meant. She turned and laughed. We've benn married for 41 yrs. She still has a great *ss. Lucky guy.

[DFW HOYA]

btw: other then Kelly and his side kick sgarlata the entire staff has been turned over in most cases several times in the last few years. You are not just dealing with a difficult uphill battle for recruits but the ones you do get may not have the best coaching staff around to actualy coach them to their potential!!

Interesting point that maybe some of the other school's posters can speak to.

Here is the Georgetown staff's experience within the program entering 2013:

Kevin Kelly - 7 yrs
Rob Sgarlata - 17 yrs
-------
Thurston Childrey - 2 yrs
Alex Kolt - 2 yrs
Vinny Marino - 1 yr
Brian Miller - 1 yr
Cheston Blackshear - New
D.J. Mangas - New

Kelly was a long time assistant and knows the need to keep moving--he was on 10 different staffs (two schools twice) in 20 seasons before Georgetown. A number of recent coaches have also been one (or two) and done: Patenaude, McAllister, Dence, Lucas, Diaz, Neuberger, Doherty. But is that the nature of the job?

In prior generations, assistants could stay 20+ years at Georgetown (Alexaxnder, Droze, Calabrese, etc.) but assistant coaching doesn't pay all that well and experience is valued over longevity. That having been said, coaching styles change with new arrivals and what worked under Patenaude may not fly under Vinny Marino, or at least not when the offense now ranks 95th nationally. So what is the best balance in the PL on assistant coaches--an open door policy, or a longer term expectation?

[CFBfan]

Interesting point that maybe some of the other school's posters can speak to.

Here is the Georgetown staff's experience within the program entering 2013:

Kevin Kelly - 7 yrs
Rob Sgarlata - 17 yrs
-------
Thurston Childrey - 2 yrs
Alex Kolt - 2 yrs
Vinny Marino - 1 yr
Brian Miller - 1 yr
Cheston Blackshear - New
D.J. Mangas - New

Kelly was a long time assistant and knows the need to keep moving--he was on 10 different staffs (two schools twice) in 20 seasons before Georgetown. A number of recent coaches have also been one (or two) and done: Patenaude, McAllister, Dence, Lucas, Diaz, Neuberger, Doherty. But is that the nature of the job?

In prior generations, assistants could stay 20+ years at Georgetown (Alexaxnder, Droze, Calabrese, etc.) but assistant coaching doesn't pay all that well and experience is valued over longevity. That having been said, coaching styles change with new arrivals and what worked under Patenaude may not fly under Vinny Marino, or at least not when the offense now ranks 95th nationally. So what is the best balance in the PL on assistant coaches--an open door policy, or a longer term expectation?

the asst's kelly has added have for the most part little prior experience, couple that with an OC from a bad columbia offense and you don't have a great staff.
coach p was the one and only good addition and he bolted. last year the use of offensive personal at rb and wr/slot was absurd at best.
Going forward it's not going to get any better

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Gtown really lucked out with Patenaude, who became available I think when Hofstra canned their program and jumped at the chance to remake one of the worst offenses in FCS.

[CFBfan]

Gtown really lucked out with Patenaude, who became available I think when Hofstra canned their program and jumped at the chance to remake one of the worst offenses in FCS.

correct and 2 season later he was gone to costal carolina and replaced by columbia's former oc, a definite downgrade from patenaude

[DFW HOYA]

Going forward it's not going to get any better

Unfortuantely, it's that prevailing wisdom which is going to make Kelly's job that much more difficult.

[Franks Tanks]

Interesting point that maybe some of the other school's posters can speak to.

Here is the Georgetown staff's experience within the program entering 2013:

Kevin Kelly - 7 yrs
Rob Sgarlata - 17 yrs
-------
Thurston Childrey - 2 yrs
Alex Kolt - 2 yrs
Vinny Marino - 1 yr
Brian Miller - 1 yr
Cheston Blackshear - New
D.J. Mangas - New

Kelly was a long time assistant and knows the need to keep moving--he was on 10 different staffs (two schools twice) in 20 seasons before Georgetown. A number of recent coaches have also been one (or two) and done: Patenaude, McAllister, Dence, Lucas, Diaz, Neuberger, Doherty. But is that the nature of the job?

In prior generations, assistants could stay 20+ years at Georgetown (Alexaxnder, Droze, Calabrese, etc.) but assistant coaching doesn't pay all that well and experience is valued over longevity. That having been said, coaching styles change with new arrivals and what worked under Patenaude may not fly under Vinny Marino, or at least not when the offense now ranks 95th nationally. So what is the best balance in the PL on assistant coaches--an open door policy, or a longer term expectation?

In general I think you and up and coming assistants are often good for PL schools. When I say young I mean 30's to even early 40's, which is still often considered sort of young in the coaching ranks where guys often don't get head job until mid-40's or later. We can pay a good salary for the most part and offer a place where they can get excellent experience.

Every once in a while a perfect strorm may occur, but that can't be counted on. Lafayette at one time had two former FBS OC's on staff at the same time. Mike Faragalli was the OC at Bowling Green for many years (he was let go when Urban Meyer took over at BGSU) and Bob Heffner was the OC at Maryland. The performance of our offense has dropped since those guys left for greener pastures.

[DFW HOYA]

In general I think you and up and coming assistants are often good for PL schools. When I say young I mean 30's to even early 40's, which is still often considered sort of young in the coaching ranks where guys often don't get head job until mid-40's or later.

Three assistants are under 30: Childrey is 28, Kolt 25, and Mangas 23. The trade-off, of course, is their recent game day experience vs. learning the ropes, which can be a potential problem as the gap between Georgetown and the rest of the PL widens.

[ngineer]

Never had any luck with intentional pick up lines. Did score on remarking to a friend that that girl had a magnificent *ss. Guess it was louder than I meant. She turned and laughed. We've benn married for 41 yrs. She still has a great *ss. Lucky guy.

So you didn't make a 'nasty crack' comment? (;-)

[ngineer]

Interesting point that maybe some of the other school's posters can speak to.

Here is the Georgetown staff's experience within the program entering 2013:

Kevin Kelly - 7 yrs
Rob Sgarlata - 17 yrs
-------
Thurston Childrey - 2 yrs
Alex Kolt - 2 yrs
Vinny Marino - 1 yr
Brian Miller - 1 yr
Cheston Blackshear - New
D.J. Mangas - New

Kelly was a long time assistant and knows the need to keep moving--he was on 10 different staffs (two schools twice) in 20 seasons before Georgetown. A number of recent coaches have also been one (or two) and done: Patenaude, McAllister, Dence, Lucas, Diaz, Neuberger, Doherty. But is that the nature of the job?

In prior generations, assistants could stay 20+ years at Georgetown (Alexaxnder, Droze, Calabrese, etc.) but assistant coaching doesn't pay all that well and experience is valued over longevity. That having been said, coaching styles change with new arrivals and what worked under Patenaude may not fly under Vinny Marino, or at least not when the offense now ranks 95th nationally. So what is the best balance in the PL on assistant coaches--an open door policy, or a longer term expectation?


Having some consistency is important. Lehigh has been fairly fortunate of late with not too much staff turnover. DC "Coach K" left a year ago for Stanford, but his successors have been on the D staff for about 6 years. Chick now entering third year as OC and the OL coach has been holding that position for about 6 years as well. Most turnover has been in the 'lower' assistant level with the LBs and DBs, and that is to be expected as the 'youngin's try and move up the food chain. In fact the length of relative stability has be a bit concerned that we could lose several after this year just based on the old '7 Year Itch'...

[Go Green]

1 - @ Columbia - the bottom of the barrel in FCS

Columbia should be sixth in the Ivy (Cornell and Yale) in 2013.

Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Columbia should be sixth in the Ivy (Cornell and Yale) in 2013.

Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

Are they going to be any bigger along the OL? Last year, they had one of the smallest OL i've seen at this level in 20 years. Their skill players were actually pretty decent. Lehigh just had their QB running for his life the whole game.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

While he was a tough kid, he never really put up great numbers. I have always questioned LU's lack of running game. When we need 2 yards we always seem to come up a yard short. That needs to change if we want to be competitive on a bigger stage.

I actually think Lehigh has been really good in short yardage situations the last couple years. However, a lot of that had to do with Colvin in the wildcat. I think Lehigh's short yardage running game could be a bit of an issue this year depending on how they play it. Sherman is an upright runner who's good in space and Sodeke is a smaller slashing type. Thankfully, they have two beasts at FB who could be used to pick up a yard or two. A beastly OL certainly helps too....

[Lehigh'98]

I actually think Lehigh has been really good in short yardage situations the last couple years. However, a lot of that had to do with Colvin in the wildcat. I think Lehigh's short yardage running game could be a bit of an issue this year depending on how they play it. Sherman is an upright runner who's good in space and Sodeke is a smaller slashing type. Thankfully, they have two beasts at FB who could be used to pick up a yard or two. A beastly OL certainly helps too....

They sure as hell couldn't stop the short yardage on the biggest stage last year and that was with Chagani I believe. Sometimes the best defense can be a ball control offense. Coen's/Cecchini decisions on 2nd/3rd and short continue to baffle me going back to 1996.

[Southsider]

I actually think Lehigh has been really good in short yardage situations the last couple years. However, a lot of that had to do with Colvin in the wildcat. I think Lehigh's short yardage running game could be a bit of an issue this year depending on how they play it. Sherman is an upright runner who's good in space and Sodeke is a smaller slashing type. Thankfully, they have two beasts at FB who could be used to pick up a yard or two. A beastly OL certainly helps too....

I recall a 4th and 1 against Princeton to win the game a few years back. Another "beastly" FB got the call and came short on one of those dumb lateral runs.....The Tigers drove the field and won the game. And yes, a "beastly" O-line certainly helps.

[Go...gate]

Is it true that Patriot League pickup lines include SAT scores? I don't recall using any in my undergraduate days, but I might be mistaken about that. After all, I tried quite a few.

When you get to my age, you try anything that might work. :D

[Go...gate]

The Patriot League: All SAT talk....all the time!!!! Come join the excitement!!!!

It's the only way to fly! xthumbsupx

[Ivytalk]

Flipped a coin between Lehigh and Colgate, and went with the Raiders.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Given my retirement from AGS, I've forfeited my right to vote.

[CFBfan]

Given my retirement from AGS, I've forfeited my right to vote.

Bogie! so good to see your voice!

[Sader87]

Given my retirement from AGS, I've forfeited my right to vote.

Contrary to what Mr Fitzgerald said, I believe there are second acts in American lives Bogie....please post often, your voice has been sadly missed here.

[RichH2]

Good to have you back. Nice thing about retiring, you can do and undo it over and over again. I look.forward to your unretirement party here. I have a very nice Merlot fit for the occasion.

[carney2]

Flipped a coin between Lehigh and Colgate, and went with the Raiders.

Inadequate. You need a 4 or 5 sided coin for this one.

Any chance you will be at the 10/19 Lafayette @ Harvard game? Weather and other things being agreeable, I am planning to be there with my favorite 7 year old. What's the best cheeseburger within a reasonable distance of stadium parking? (I continue my quest to find the world's greatest cheeseburger.)

[RichH2]

A noble quest, if not healthiest. Personal favorite, Jackson Hole. Used to like Fudruckers. 5Guys not bad but overrated.

[carney2]

A noble quest, if not healthiest. Personal favorite, Jackson Hole. Used to like Fudruckers. 5Guys not bad but overrated.

It's a local thing. Generally, chains need not apply, although next time you're at Outback, skip the steaks and bloomin' onion and order a cheeseburger. You won't be disappointed. At Hahvahd I've already had Mr. Bartley's recommended, but am concerned about hiking to/from the stadium with a 7 year old.

In our neck of the woods, Rich, I used to hold the Tally Ho burgers in high regard, but they've slipped a few notches over the past few years. With Uncle Wesley's closed in Easton the pickings are getting slim. Wert's in Allentown still good, but if that's the best we can do,...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cheeburger Cheeburger in Fairless Hills is a haul for you carney but well worth the drive. A 50s diner sort of place and, a chain, I guess, but no burger place tops it to me.

[carney2]

Cheeburger Cheeburger in Fairless Hills is a haul for you carney but well worth the drive. A 50s diner sort of place and, a chain, I guess, but no burger place tops it to me.

Thanks. You're right, it's a chain, so there are other locations. At least two of them are well situated for my SE PA travels. I'll keep it in mind.

[Engineer86]

Given my retirement from AGS, I've forfeited my right to vote.

Hope things are back in order for you. LU/LC week was not the same with out your volleys.

[heath]

11/9 will determine the PL champs. The pretenders will go sulk at Milos and Ralphs Diner and the other two schools will once again battle for the title the following week.xbowx

[RichH2]

Cheesburger,cheeseburger not bad. Sad to hear about Ho. Liked their burgets. Outback will try this week. Never noticed burgers. Nothing is quite as satisfying as well grilled chopped cow.

[Franks Tanks]

It's a local thing. Generally, chains need not apply, although next time you're at Outback, skip the steaks and bloomin' onion and order a cheeseburger. You won't be disappointed. At Hahvahd I've already had Mr. Bartley's recommended, but am concerned about hiking to/from the stadium with a 7 year old.

In our neck of the woods, Rich, I used to hold the Tally Ho burgers in high regard, but they've slipped a few notches over the past few years. With Uncle Wesley's closed in Easton the pickings are getting slim. Wert's in Allentown still good, but if that's the best we can do,...

Pearly Baker's bacon cheeseburger is very good IMO. The Allentown/Bethlehem brew works make a very above average burger. Not best you ever had quality, but always hits the spot.

[RichH2]

Coming down this wkend for lax, FT ,where is Pearly Bakers?

[carney2]

Coming down this wkend for lax, FT ,where is Pearly Bakers?

On Center Square in Easton.

[RichH2]

Thanks Carney. After lax we'll give it a try.

[Pard4Life]

I hasten to add that, IMO, I would have rather had Monmouth than Loyola as an all-sports member in the PL because of (1) football and (2) I think Monmouth (like Marist or Wagner) has a much better potential long-term upside than Loyola, which has never been a particularly distinguished school. I'm familiar with what you guys have going in West Long Branch and it is very promising.

Are you for real? Loyola is a much more distinguished school than Monmouth. They are ranked second only to Villanova in the regional masters category, and Villanova is very respected in the Philadelphia area. Many applicants cross Lafayette and Villanova. Can you say the same for Monmouth? It is more or less a county regional school that draws from North Jersey. The PL has more or less rejected Marist, a more academically accomplished school, so how would Monmouth fit this mold?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Monmouth.

The most redeeming feature of Monmouth U. had been its president, Adm. Paul Gaffney. Unfortunately for them, Admiral Gaffney has resigned/retired. Some sort of Dean or administrator (or whatever) from Lehigh is taking his place as of June 30. That's right, I said Lehigh.

A Sniveling Southside Scratch-'n-Sniff to float the ship at the Jersey Shore? What possibly could go wrong? xcoffeex

Loyola was an excellent choice, IMHO. We'll get another football member or two once the CAA implodes.


Pearly Baker's

Impossible to get in there on weekends.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hope things are back in order for you. LU/LC week was not the same with out your volleys.

Thanks, 86. All is copacetic at this point. Recall that it was Hurricane Sandy that did a number on both my business and my home. AGS posting was not an option for a good long while.

Be careful what you wish for, however. I'm holding innumerable volleys in abeyance for future deployment.

[RichH2]

Thanks Bogie. We are going out on Thursday. I have some meetings at LU and L wants to shop. Guess we'll stop on the way out. Spring game and lax on Sat.

[carney2]

Thanks Bogie. We are going out on Thursday. I have some meetings at LU and L wants to shop. Guess we'll stop on the way out. Spring game and lax on Sat.


"Going out?" I thought you were a local, Rich.

[Bogus Megapardus]

lax on Sat.

Pards might not be the pushover that you're anticipating this weekend. Rogalski has instituted a bizarro new offense and our D has learned to how to hit. Enjoy the game; I'm going to try to make it over there as well. Attendance probably will be 1,000+.

[Go...gate]

Given my retirement from AGS, I've forfeited my right to vote.

When did you retire? You, sir, are greatly missed.

[Go...gate]

Good to have you back. Nice thing about retiring, you can do and undo it over and over again. I look.forward to your unretirement party here. I have a very nice Merlot fit for the occasion.

I will bring some decent Scotch!

[RichH2]

NYC now. Easy drive out. L is a LV girl. Allentown and Cedar Crest.

No followed Pard game. Acquitted themselves well. Gate not great D but admit I was.surprised that Pards kept it close right to the end. Sat s/b competitive for a while. Only my second game this yr, so am looking forward to it. Too many senior moments over the last yr.

[Go...gate]

Are you for real? Loyola is a much more distinguished school than Monmouth. They are ranked second only to Villanova in the regional masters category, and Villanova is very respected in the Philadelphia area. Many applicants cross Lafayette and Villanova. Can you say the same for Monmouth? It is more or less a county regional school that draws from North Jersey. The PL has more or less rejected Marist, a more academically accomplished school, so how would Monmouth fit this mold?

Pard, take it easy. I said POTENTIAL upside, and I stand by my statement. Forget US News for a minute - it is not the be-all and end-all of ratings. I am old enough to remember when Loyola was so hard up they would take ANYBODY from a Catholic high school who would pay the tuition and not much has changed. I am presently Legal Guardian to two youngsters whom I helped through the college admission process in the last two years (the first one is at Richmond, the second one is choosing between NYU and American) and that is literally what two well qualified college counselors told me. I was also told that Marist and Drexel were considered far stronger schools than Loyola.

[ngineer]

Been away a few days. Saw the great cheeseburger debate...5 Guys on Route 248 is good, but, locally, I think the "Blue Burger" at Blue on William Penn Highway in Bethlehem Twp. is the best at the moment.
Bogie, glad to see you're back and the things on the home front are improving.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I will bring some decent Scotch!

The word "Scotch" was invented by the Brits as an insult to we noble Scotsmen. The proper term is, "Scots Malt." Show some dignity, "Gate! Otherwise, I'll just have to ask you to pronounce the word, "Glenfiddich" in the company of a hoard of drunken, unbreeched Scotsmen - i.e., wearing their garments "military style."

You don't really want to go there! xchinscratchx

[RichH2]

Thanks n. So many local choices now. Doubt "she who must be obeyed" will agree to that many cheeseburgers in one weekend. For some unknown reason she wants to keep me around for a few more years. Try Blue another time.

[RichH2]

Nice avatar Bogie. Fits your rant perfectly. Altho, Scotch by any name is merely a pale imitation of Irish whiskey. Bushmills neat, nectar of the Gods.

[Bogus Megapardus]

pale imitation of Irish whiskey.

Yer ba's are a' beef, ya Minky Basturt! Fancy a doin'?

[RichH2]

LMAO. Aiii, ye can pug a mahone laddie. Single malt scotch ,at best tastes like watered down iodine. Jameson is a man's drink.

[carney2]

Nice avatar Bogie. Fits your rant perfectly. Altho, Scotch by any name is merely a pale imitation of Irish whiskey. Bushmills neat, nectar of the Gods.

Jeez, Rich, you're getting creepy. Now you've married a Cedar Crest fem and prefer Bushmill's - not just Irish whiskey or Jameson. Sounds like someone we know and love - me (although I'll take a good bourbon over a Bushmill's upon occasion). If it weren't for your lack of education I'd begin to think you were almost human.

[RichH2]

Why thanks Carney. Admit I prefer Jameson, but when I posted had 2 fingers of Bushmill, purely for medicinal purposes.I do wonder at times about L's wisdom in choosing me, just thankful she did. Somehow picked up the nickname " you old fool".As in Are you trying to hurt yourself, you old fool? Keep forgetting I'm not 45 anymore.

[NHwildEcat]

I vote BU.

[Pard4Life]

Pard, take it easy. I said POTENTIAL upside, and I stand by my statement. Forget US News for a minute - it is not the be-all and end-all of ratings. I am old enough to remember when Loyola was so hard up they would take ANYBODY from a Catholic high school who would pay the tuition and not much has changed. I am presently Legal Guardian to two youngsters whom I helped through the college admission process in the last two years (the first one is at Richmond, the second one is choosing between NYU and American) and that is literally what two well qualified college counselors told me. I was also told that Marist and Drexel were considered far stronger schools than Loyola.

I still disagree. Upside for Monmouth is limited, and I'm not thinking about USNWR. I have known students who attend Monmouth and I can attest that the quality of the school is not very impressive. And yes, Marist and Drexel are stronger schools... I have much respect for Drexel and their program, particularly engineering and sciences. I would like to see them in the PL.

[heath]

I still disagree. Upside for Monmouth is limited, and I'm not thinking about USNWR. I have known students who attend Monmouth and I can attest that the quality of the school is not very impressive. And yes, Marist and Drexel are stronger schools... I have much respect for Drexel and their program, particularly engineering and sciences. I would like to see them in the PL.

Maybe you would prefer Adams College or Medfield college to join the PL.......NERDS NERDS NERDS! Dean Higgins is looking for a new conference.xlolxJust remember that your school is not an elite academical institution either.xsmiley_wix

[LUHawker]

Maybe you would prefer Adams College or Medfield college to join the PL.......NERDS NERDS NERDS! Dean Higgins is looking for a new conference.xlolxJust remember that your school is not an elite academical institution either.xsmiley_wix

I don't normally defend my Leopard compatriots, but when when you state something retarded, I have to call BS. One doesn't need to be "elite" (your word, not mine) to be thoughtful and provide context to say an apple does fit in an orange sack.

[carney2]

Rumor has it that Faber College is looking for an all sports league.

[Franks Tanks]

Rumor has it that Faber College is looking for an all sports league.

Well another PA school may upset Holy Cross fans and the so called Pennsy league (yes fictional Faber College is in PA).

[Sader87]

I always thought Faber was a fictional Dartmouth College....

[DFW HOYA]

I always thought Faber was a fictional Dartmouth College....

It was based loosely on Dartmouth but the school was set in PA (even though a Tennessee flag curiously appears in one scene).

The Faber mascot is the Mongol, a nod to the best selling pencil of the real life Eberhard-Faber Company.

http://www.pencilpages.com/gallery/eberhard-faber/mongol.htm

[van]

It was based loosely on Dartmouth but the school was set in PA (even though a Tennessee flag curiously appears in one scene).

The Faber mascot is the Mongol, a nod to the best selling pencil of the real life Eberhard-Faber Company.

http://www.pencilpages.com/gallery/eberhard-faber/mongol.htm


Now that is just way too much information. Too much spare time DFW?

[Go Green]

Are they going to be any bigger along the OL? Last year, they had one of the smallest OL i've seen at this level in 20 years. Their skill players were actually pretty decent. Lehigh just had their QB running for his life the whole game.

Other than the Stanford QB transfer, that's been the biggest topic of discussion on the Columbia football blog in the offseason.

The coach (entering his second year) said from the get-go that he preferred smaller, more athletic linemen. Ok, fine. The problem is that he tried to ask the guys he inherited to lose weight and get faster. So they did. But they weren't any more athletic.
The result was a lot of games like Lehigh when the QB got sacked 5+ times a game.

The blog says that he's been trying to recruit "his" type of linemen. Maybe by year 3 those guys will be mature enough to start playing well. But year 2 may still be closer to the result of year 1.

Columbia isn't a joke the way they used to be, but they will still be another year or two away from being an upper-division Ivy team. At least.

[Go Green]

It was based loosely on Dartmouth but the school was set in PA (even though a Tennessee flag curiously appears in one scene).




One of the screenwriters went to Dartmouth and insisted that a lot of the movie was based on his own experiences.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Animal-House-Fraternity/dp/B00375LO4Q

It was my understanding that the movie was physically filmed at the U. of Oregon.

[Franks Tanks]

One of the screenwriters went to Dartmouth and insisted that a lot of the movie was based on his own experiences.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Real-Animal-House-Fraternity/dp/B00375LO4Q

It was my understanding that the movie was physically filmed at the U. of Oregon.

I know way too much about Animal House so here it goes. I believe several writers were frat brothers at Dartmouth, and their experiences at Dartmouth certainly influenced the setting and events in the movie. The film was shot at the University of Oregon. The film was set in PA- during one sequence the words "somewhere in PA" appear on the screen, and one of the characters ( I believe Flounder) is mentioned to be from Harrisburg. The all female college Otter and the boys visit to find dates also references PA in some form if I recall. There have been urban legends around PA that "Faber College" is based on Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh and even Gettysburg because of the PA mention, but I don't think that is true. If any school inspired Animal House I would say that it would be Dartmouth.

[DFW HOYA]

One more (if apochryphal) Animal House story:

The producers were having a terrible time getting a college to film at, inasmuch as the script scared away every college administrator who read it. With days before shooting and faced with the fallback of shooting on a back lot, they approached the University of Oregon as a last option and the VP of the school surprisingly accepted it without reservations. When asked why, he said that, as a dean at another university, he rejected the filming of "Love Story" on his campus, and decided he woudn't make that same mistake again.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Knowledge of every detail of Animal House certainly does NOT mean you have too much time on your hands. Any respectable PL grad should be able to recite such things as common knowledge.

"Too much time on your hands" means knowing that Georgetown actually was Sterling Archer's safety school, and that he prepped at St. Joshua's Episcopal.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Knowledge of every detail of Animal House certainly does NOT mean you have too much time on your hands. Any respectable PL grad should be able to recite such things as common knowledge.

"Too much time on your hands" means knowing that Georgetown actually was Sterling Archer's safety school, and that he prepped at St. Joshua's Episcopal.

The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor. Welcome back, Bogie.

[RichH2]

For those of us from the early 60s, much of Animal House retold familiar tales of our own time in college. Toga parties, panty raids on Moravian,painting the Marquis,road trips ,Spring break in Bermuda. Amazed I survived some of the stuff we did, not to be retold except to those who were there.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Back to two topics ago, I swear I didn't know that Cheeburge Cheeburger was opening in Easton!

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/index.ssf/2013/04/cheeburger_cheeburger_opening.html?fb_action_ids=1 0200694013131237&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B217217035069468%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dface book-like%22%5D

[RichH2]

Heh,heh... Perhaps now I should ask if there is any good Mongolian barbecue places in the LV.

[carney2]

Back to two topics ago, I swear I didn't know that Cheeburge Cheeburger was opening in Easton!

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/index.ssf/2013/04/cheeburger_cheeburger_opening.html?fb_action_ids=1 0200694013131237&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B217217035069468%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dface book-like%22%5D

All right! Now we're making progress. I won't be losing any more sleep over how and when to get to one of these further down the pike in overpopulated portions of PA.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette Spring Prospectus:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2013-14/prospectus/prospectus.pdf




HT: Andy on the Lafayette Board

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=Bogus Megapardus;1954126]Lafayette Spring Prospectus:

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/lafa/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2013-14/prospectus/prospectus.pdf

took this from the prospectus: The road stretch ends on Nov. 2 in the nation’s capital.
Georgetown and the Leopards have split the last four meetings
including a three-point Hoya win last season

looks like revisionist history as I am quite certain the Pards have dropped the last 3 in a row to the Hoyas......

[Bogus Megapardus]

looks like revisionist history

Meh. History, schmistory. The future is now.

Besides, we don't count the FiOS game.

[CFBfan]

Meh. History, schmistory. The future is now.

Besides, we don't count the FiOS game.

ha! well played. so good to have you back!

[Pard4Life]

Columbia isn't a joke the way they used to be, but they will still be another century or two away from being an upper-division Ivy team. At least.

... fixed it...

[Pard4Life]

Back to two topics ago, I swear I didn't know that Cheeburge Cheeburger was opening in Easton!

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/index.ssf/2013/04/cheeburger_cheeburger_opening.html?fb_action_ids=1 0200694013131237&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B217217035069468%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dface book-like%22%5D

See? Easton is the better place...

[Bogus Megapardus]

See? Easton is the better place...

I wonder how many students realize that the walk from South College to Center Square in Easton is the same distance as the walk from South College to Kirby Sports Center - just a bit over 3/10ths of a mile. In fact, the walk to CHT actually is a little farther.

[Bogus Megapardus]

ha! well played. so good to have you back!

The object, of course, always has been to create enthusiasm for an actual Georgetown-Lafayette football rivalry. Some day, maybe, Hoyas will come to despise Pards and come out in droves for the games (and vice-versa). I demand Rep Points if ever it comes to be.

[Go...gate]

Rumor has it that Faber College is looking for an all sports league.

Faber would be the PERFECT fit for the PL.

[Go...gate]

Very glad to have Bogus back!

[ngineer]

I know way too much about Animal House so here it goes. I believe several writers were frat brothers at Dartmouth, and their experiences at Dartmouth certainly influenced the setting and events in the movie. The film was shot at the University of Oregon. The film was set in PA- during one sequence the words "somewhere in PA" appear on the screen, and one of the characters ( I believe Flounder) is mentioned to be from Harrisburg. The all female college Otter and the boys visit to find dates also references PA in some form if I recall. There have been urban legends around PA that "Faber College" is based on Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh and even Gettysburg because of the PA mention, but I don't think that is true. If any school inspired Animal House I would say that it would be Dartmouth.

The women's college in the film was "Emily Dickinson College".. My wife is a grad of Dickinson College in Carlisle and has had the comparison thrown at her from time to time.

[ngineer]

Back to two topics ago, I swear I didn't know that Cheeburge Cheeburger was opening in Easton!

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/easton/index.ssf/2013/04/cheeburger_cheeburger_opening.html?fb_action_ids=1 0200694013131237&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dfacebook-like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%5B217217035069468%5D&action_type_map=%5B%22og.likes%22%5D&action_ref_map=%5B%22s%3DshowShareBarUI%3Ap%3Dface book-like%22%5D

Looking forward to it. Ironic it is right NEXT DOOR, not across the street, from Maxim's 22, which is a fancy new French restaurant, which is also very, very good.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

John Belushi links Cheeburger Cheeburger and Animal House. I felt this should be mentioned.

[Go Green]

The women's college in the film was "Emily Dickinson College".. My wife is a grad of Dickinson College in Carlisle and has had the comparison thrown at her from time to time.

Anyone ever tell her how sad he was that Fawn Lebowitz died, and if she went out with him (and set up dates for his friends), he'd feel much better?

:)

[Sader87]

Anyone ever tell her how sad he was that Fawn Lebowitz died, and if she went out with him (and set up dates for his friends), he'd feel much better?

:)

She was making me a pot....

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-65526

[Pard4Life]

I wonder how many students realize that the walk from South College to Center Square in Easton is the same distance as the walk from South College to Kirby Sports Center - just a bit over 3/10ths of a mile. In fact, the walk to CHT actually is a little farther.

1) There is the climb up the steps.
2) Downtown Easton is 'ghetto', 'scary', 'threatening'. Because, you know, it's just like Camden.

[carney2]

What's the status of 12th games?

Fordham has one.

Lehigh (Coen) says that they don't want one.

Lafayette is actively pursuing one and is supposedly close to signing contracts for a home and home.

What about the other four teams?

[Sader87]

What's the status of 12th games?

Fordham has one.

Lehigh (Coen) says that they don't want one.

Lafayette is actively pursuing one and is supposedly close to signing contracts for a home and home.

What about the other four teams?

I almost wish we didn't....Monmouth was added recently. Nothing against Monmouth per se, but added as a 12th game to a schedule that already included Bryant and CCSU didn't exactly thrill me as a fan.

[Fordham]

Our 12th was St Francis. I fail to see the upside. Win - so what? Lose - what the hell happened? ... and it 's the week before Lehigh AND on the road and I think we could have used the break and the prep.

[CFBfan]

What's the status of 12th games?

Fordham has one.

Lehigh (Coen) says that they don't want one.

Lafayette is actively pursuing one and is supposedly close to signing contracts for a home and home.

What about the other four teams?

Gate has 12

[CFBfan]

Our 12th was St Francis. I fail to see the upside. Win - so what? Lose - what the hell happened? ... and it 's the week before Lehigh AND on the road and I think we could have used the break and the prep.

on the other hand an "extra" win could mean the difference for an at large bid for FU.....

[ngineer]

on the other hand an "extra" win could mean the difference for an at large bid for FU.....

They will regret giving up the extra prep week. (;-)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Despite my best efforts it appears Lehigh is stuck at 11 games this year.

Bet if Lafayette is going for a 12th on 8/31 its St. Francis(PA).

[CFBfan]

They will regret giving up the extra prep week. (;-)

on the other hand an "extra" win could mean the difference for an at large bid for FU.....

[Go...gate]

Colgate managed to hold on to all 12 games, including the opener at Air Force.

[carney2]

Bet if Lafayette is going for a 12th on 8/31 its St. Francis(PA).

No word that I know of out of Bourger, but this kind of game is my great fear. As sader87 said about the Holy Cross scheduling, why bother?! Lafayette's "problem" is that the current schedule includes only 5 home games. If they are going for a home and home as is postulated, they'd probably need the first game in Easton. To get that, odds are that they'd have to move down the football food chain as they did when they scheduled Sacred Heart to replace Yale. The Pards already have an ambitious OOC schedule with William & Mary, Penn, Harvard and their own personal unclimbable mountain, Princeton. Why crap it up with something like LFN suggests.

[DFW HOYA]

What's the status of 12th games?


Georgetown stayed at 11, picked up Marist to replace Yale. (Eh.)

[Bill]

17674

OK, so I'm late to the discussion....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Georgetown stayed at 11, picked up Marist to replace Yale. (Eh.)

I think the Hoyas could manage 5 or 6 wins this year given their schedule.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Run for Boston
Wednesday, May 1, 2013 @ Fisher Field
Lafayette College

Registration @ 4:00 PM
Event @ 5:00 PM

"Join the Lafayette Department of Athletics in a Run for Boston. Our goal is to run 294 miles, the distance between Lafayette's campus and the Boston Marathon Finish Line. All participants are encouraged to wear a blue, yellow or white shirt, the colors of the Boston Marathon."

https://www.runtheday.com/registration/race_info/18807

http://www.goleopards.com/genrel/041913aaa.html


I'm gonna lace up the Nikes for this one, folks. Any other local FCS, i.e., Lehigh - Penn - Villanova - Princeton - Columbia - Wagner - Fordham, etc. care to join in?

[TheValleyRaider]

To me, Colgate's chances for 2013 revolve around the ability of the offensive line to maintain their level of play from this past season. When the line is good, like last year, the offense will be good regardless of who the back next to McCarney is.

Now, if the defense continues to struggle, that's a whole different ball of wax, so they'll need to step up at least a little more consistantly, but if we can move the ball and continue to score, we can win a shootout with anyone in the League.

Holy Cross and Bucknell are the biggest wild cards to me. HC because I think they'll be much improved so long as they stay healthy, and an improved BU could trip up one of the contenders and play a significant role in deciding the title. I think Georgetown could fill a similar role, but it would be unfair to what they have accomplished in the last few years to simply group them in with the Bison

Colgate and Lehigh are my favorites, though I could see Fordham making a run (unofficially of course). I refuse to make any predictions about what Lafayette will do. That seems like an exercise in ongoing futility.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I refuse to make any predictions about what Lafayette will do. That seems like an exercise in ongoing futility.

Anyone's predictions for Lafayette, either way, are almost always wrong - almost (but not quite) as unpredictable as Leopard basketball (where we Pards had a bunch of fun this year).

My preliminary take on the 2013 season is:

Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lafayette
Bucknell

Colgate, Lehigh and Cross seem to be the most consistent from year to year. Georgetown and Bucknell are improving steadily albeit slowly. Fordham and Lafayette are so inconsistent, they're just wild cards.


BONUS QUESTION - Does anyone else here think that Loyola will re-start football within the next five years? I know that the general consensus so far has been "no" but I'm still of a mind that the Greyhounds chose to go Patsy for more than just lacrosse and basketball (though they average 2,500 fans for lacrosse which is more than some get for FCS football).

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Any info in Lehigh's spring game? From what I gather there were several plays held out because of injury and things were a little up and down. I read a comment suggesting that McHale looked like the best QB. I honestly thought he was the best looking QB in last years spring game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

BONUS QUESTION - Does anyone else here think that Loyola will re-start football within the next five years? I know that the general consensus so far has been "no" but I'm still of a mind that the Greyhounds chose to go Patsy for more than just lacrosse and basketball (though they average 2,500 fans for lacrosse which is more than some get for FCS football).

I might be one of the few but I think the answer to this question is YES. They have a stadium all ready for it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Any info in Lehigh's spring game? From what I gather there were several plays held out because of injury and things were a little up and down. I read a comment suggesting that McHale looked like the best QB. I honestly thought he was the best looking QB in last years spring game.

You'll have to wait for my wrap-up :)

[van]

Anyone's predictions for Lafayette, either way, are almost always wrong - almost (but not quite) as unpredictable as Leopard basketball (where we Pards had a bunch of fun this year).

My preliminary take on the 2013 season is:

Colgate
Fordham
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Georgetown
Lafayette
Bucknell

Colgate, Lehigh and Cross seem to be the most consistent from year to year. Georgetown and Bucknell are improving steadily albeit slowly. Fordham and Lafayette are so inconsistent, they're just wild cards.


BONUS QUESTION - Does anyone else here think that Loyola will re-start football within the next five years? I know that the general consensus so far has been "no" but I'm still of a mind that the Greyhounds chose to go Patsy for more than just lacrosse and basketball (though they average 2,500 fans for lacrosse which is more than some get for FCS football).

While it might be a long term goal, I doubt they start FB in 5 years. Suspect their joining the PL had more to do with academic aspirations than FB aspirations.

[Bogus Megapardus]

They have a stadium all ready for it.

Yes, they do. Built for lacrosse, but I assume it can be adapted to football. PL-sized and ready to go. And its a five minute walk across 41st St. from Homewood, too.


http://here2play.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/loyola3.jpg

[Franks Tanks]

My take

Tier 1- Lehigh, Colgate, Lafayette and Fordham

I am no too high on the Leopards, but this will be by far the best Lafayette team in a few years. We have virtually every offensive starter back, and most of the D returning. Frnak needs to take a long hard look on the mirror if he can't contend after 3 years of rebuilding

Tier 2- Bucknell, Holy Cross and Georgetown

I think Bucknell and Holy Cross are a bit short on talent. Gilmore's team is always well coached, but I felt their talent level was down in 2012. Not so sure Gilmore has the horses. Generally the same for Bucknell, who has still struggled on the lines.

[PAllen]

BONUS QUESTION - Does anyone else here think that Loyola will re-start football within the next five years? I know that the general consensus so far has been "no" but I'm still of a mind that the Greyhounds chose to go Patsy for more than just lacrosse and basketball (though they average 2,500 fans for lacrosse which is more than some get for FCS football).

5 years may be a little soon, but I do see it happening. Stevenson University has gotten a ton of press in the Baltimore metro area since starting their FB program a few years ago. The old Villa Julie College has now surpassed Loyola in regional recognition, and Loyola has to be looking at ways to improve their visibility. Adding a partial scholarship FB team to their already built facilities would do wonders in that respect. Loyola would have instant local rivals in Towson and Morgan.

[ngineer]

Nice looking facility at Loyola. The question is whether they have the 'scratch' to start football.

[DFW HOYA]

Nice looking facility at Loyola. The question is whether they have the 'scratch' to start football.

Scratch, yes. But they don't have the "itch".

[Bogus Megapardus]

Let's get some more Spring Game reports here! Anyone?

[DFW HOYA]

Let's get some more Spring Game reports here! Anyone?

Georgetown's defense outpointed the offense 27-20.

Of interest: QB Isaiah Kempf (lost for the season after three plays in the first game of the season) will return for a 5th year. That sets up this logjam at QB:

Isaiah Kempf (Gr)
Aaron Aiken (Sr)
Stephen Skon (Jr)
Kyle Nolan (So)
Cameron MacPherson (So)
Tim Barnes (Fr)
Mandy Williams (Fr)

A spring roster was not released. The recruit list will follow sometime in May.

[ngineer]

Let's get some more Spring Game reports here! Anyone?

LFN has Lehigh's on a separate thread. I was there and my reaction, as usual, is "meh". Always some good stuff, some bad stuff. Overall, I liked the athleticism of our defense. Lots of first time starters. Just need to build confidence. My takeaway was that our freshman PK has an excellent chance at starting.

[CFBfan]

Georgetown's defense outpointed the offense 27-20.

Of interest: QB Isaiah Kempf (lost for the season after three plays in the first game of the season) will return for a 5th year. That sets up this logjam at QB:

Isaiah Kempf (Gr)
Aaron Aiken (Sr)
Stephen Skon (Jr)
Kyle Nolan (So)
Cameron MacPherson (So)
Tim Barnes (Fr)
Mandy Williams (Fr)

A spring roster was not released. The recruit list will follow sometime in May.

Scon is off campus and Aiken is no longer a qb

[PAllen]

My takeaway was that our freshman PK has an excellent chance at starting.

LOL. True, but funny.

[Lehigh'98]

Lehigh getting coach Botteglieri back on defensive side is an instant upgrade. They will do more with less on D this year.

[TheValleyRaider]

Let's get some more Spring Game reports here! Anyone?

Colgate, as usual, did not hold a Spring Game

...or did we?

[CFBfan]

Colgate, as usual, did not hold a Spring Game

...or did we?

Yes they did

[RichH2]

Lehigh getting coach Botteglieri back on defensive side is an instant upgrade. They will do more with less on D this year.

Yup, much like Gilmore. 3 DCs a bit much but will upgrade D as players get experience.

[DFW HOYA]

Skon is off campus and Aiken is no longer a qb

Correct. The scrimmage roster now on GUHoyas.com lists only three QB's (Kempf, Nolan, MacPherson). A recruit signed this week told his local paper he's moving from QB to WR.

[Pard4Life]

Trade us a QB for TV rights for the Gtown game?

[Pard4Life]

OHH OHH!!

I just passed 5,000 posts...

... maybe I should start a thread and proclaim this milestone...

Oh wait, I am not a Lehigh guy.. xshakefistx

[Go...gate]

OHH OHH!!

I just passed 5,000 posts...

... maybe I should start a thread and proclaim this milestone...

Oh wait, I am not a Lehigh guy.. xshakefistx

Congratulations!!! xhurrayxxbeerchugxxsmashxxcoachx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

OHH OHH!!

I just passed 5,000 posts...

... maybe I should start a thread and proclaim this milestone...

Oh wait, I am not a Lehigh guy.. xshakefistx

I'm sorry, what milestones does Lafayette have over the last five years again?

[carney2]

I'm sorry, what milestones does Lafayette have over the last five years again?

C'mon, PFL, P4L was talking about HIS milestone, not his alma mater's. As long as you brought it up though, Lafayette can claim a head coach who has stuck his head up his butt more times than all the other coaches in the Patriot League combined in that five year period. Go ahead, beat that if you can.

[RichH2]

C'mon, PFL, P4L was talking about HIS milestone, not his alma mater's. As long as you brought it up though, Lafayette can claim a head coach who has stuck his head up his butt more times than all the other coaches in the Patriot League combined in that five year period. Go ahead, beat that if you can.
A laudable feat no doubt.
Congrats to P4L.xthumbsupxxhurrayx

[Southsider]

C'mon, PFL, P4L was talking about HIS milestone, not his alma mater's. As long as you brought it up though, Lafayette can claim a head coach who has stuck his head up his butt more times than all the other coaches in the Patriot League combined in that five year period. Go ahead, beat that if you can.

Perhaps, but Andy's call on the failed onsides kick against Gate last season pretty much puts him right up there with Frank, in my opinion!xflamemadx

[Pard4Life]

C'mon, PFL, P4L was talking about HIS milestone, not his alma mater's. As long as you brought it up though, Lafayette can claim a head coach who has stuck his head up his butt more times than all the other coaches in the Patriot League combined in that five year period. Go ahead, beat that if you can.

Perhaps, but Andy's call on the failed onsides kick against Gate last season pretty much puts him right up there with Frank, in my opinion!xflamemadx

UM...

1) Having a WR throw for the endzone on our first drive vs. you in 2009. INT
2) four straight runs up the middle vs. you in 2009
3) ditto above in 2010
4) Shoop and O'Neill
5) Georgetown 2011
6) Georgetown 2012
7) Robert Morris 2012

... that's what I thought... have a seat!! xbangx

ps care to add any c2?

[CFBfan]

[QUOTE=Southsider;1957027]

UM...

1) Having a WR throw for the endzone on our first drive vs. you in 2009. INT
2) four straight runs up the middle vs. you in 2009
3) ditto above in 2010
4) Shoop and O'Neill
5) Georgetown 2011
6) Georgetown 2012
7) Robert Morris 2012

... that's what I thought... have a seat!! xbangx

ps care to add any c2?

You could add GU 2010

[RichH2]

A dispute over who has the worst coach. Wow, summer has started early this yr.

[carney2]

[QUOTE=Southsider;1957027]

UM...

1) Having a WR throw for the endzone on our first drive vs. you in 2009. INT
2) four straight runs up the middle vs. you in 2009
3) ditto above in 2010
4) Shoop and O'Neill
5) Georgetown 2011
6) Georgetown 2012
7) Robert Morris 2012

... that's what I thought... have a seat!! xbangx

ps care to add any c2?

The Harvard no show, 2010
The Harvard no show, 2011
Penn 2008 - the invention of the Prevent Offense
The Lehigh no show, 2012
Bucknell 2012 - The Frankosaurus on steroids
The record setting matador defense - Colgate 2012
Any play in any game where it's 1st or 2nd down inside his own 5 - it's called prelude to an automatic punt.

I'll have to give it some thought. One thing's certain - a single botched onsides kick doesn't give Coen the right to even pick the lint off Frank's traditional black garb, let alone be mentioned in the same breath when it comes to bonehead.

[RichH2]

OK, Lafayette has won the Bonehead trophy for the 5 th yr in a row. One more and it will be retired permanently to the Pards.
Should we start on asst coaches next or equipment mngers?

[Southsider]

[QUOTE=Pard4Life;1957043]

The Harvard no show, 2010
The Harvard no show, 2011
Penn 2008 - the invention of the Prevent Offense
The Lehigh no show, 2012
Bucknell 2012 - The Frankosaurus on steroids
The record setting matador defense - Colgate 2012
Any play in any game where it's 1st or 2nd down inside his own 5 - it's called prelude to an automatic punt.

I'll have to give it some thought. One thing's certain - a single botched onsides kick doesn't give Coen the right to even pick the lint off Frank's traditional black garb, let alone be mentioned in the same breath when it comes to bonehead.

OK, but here's another. In his very first game against Albany, in a driving rain, he tries a very long FG to win game that had no chance on a good day, instead of a Hail Mary. I guess that's why I am not a coach......xrotatehx

[carney2]

[QUOTE=carney2;1957125]

OK, but here's another. In his very first game against Albany, in a driving rain, he tries a very long FG to win game that had no chance on a good day, instead of a Hail Mary. I guess that's why I am not a coach......xrotatehx

That's two freakin' plays. I can give you at least two entire games every year from The Frankosaurus. Don't try to keep this going. You can't win. As for Rich's trophy retirement, Tavani is deep into retiring his third. Thinking of building a Bonehead Room addition to Bourger to house all the hardware.

And, Rich, of all the truly tasteless discussions that we, the blathering idiots of Patriot league AGS, get involved in, why does this one in particular twist your innards?

[Southsider]

OK. I give up!xcoffeex

[RichH2]

Carney,
Actually dont mind guys knocking coaches. A fan's right. A contest over who has the worst game coach is just beliw my tolerance level. Agree, we do have threads that meander and often lose contact with reality, a small effort to stem the tide. Heck, summer hasn't even started yet..

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=Pard4Life;1957043]

The Harvard no show, 2010
The Harvard no show, 2011
Penn 2008 - the invention of the Prevent Offense
The Lehigh no show, 2012
Bucknell 2012 - The Frankosaurus on steroids
The record setting matador defense - Colgate 2012
Any play in any game where it's 1st or 2nd down inside his own 5 - it's called prelude to an automatic punt.

I'll have to give it some thought. One thing's certain - a single botched onsides kick doesn't give Coen the right to even pick the lint off Frank's traditional black garb, let alone be mentioned in the same breath when it comes to bonehead.

Ugh... there we go. I'd put Penn 2009 up there as well, as both games were nearly mailed in by the conservative offense. You could possibly put Liberty 2009 into that mix, but it was a tough game and a defensive struggle on both sides.

I think you may mean Lehigh 2011 as a no show... I thought last year's game was respectable, to an extent, given what we had. And do you mean Bucknell 2011? (the blizzard game that one guy on our Pard board blames on Sports Information)

[Pard4Life]

OK, Lafayette has won the Bonehead trophy for the 5 th yr in a row. One more and it will be retired permanently to the Pards.
Should we start on asst coaches next or equipment mngers?

Tavani inherited it from Lembo... it's contagious.

[RichH2]

Good point P4L.lol

[carney2]

[QUOTE=carney2;1957125]I think you may mean Lehigh 2011 as a no show... I thought last year's game was respectable, to an extent, given what we had. And do you mean Bucknell 2011? (the blizzard game that one guy on our Pard board blames on Sports Information)

I stand corrected. I was indeed referring to the 2011 Lehigh game.

No, I meant what I said - Bucknell 2012. Frank was determined to hit the middle, hit the middle, and then do it again. His o-line couldn't handle it and he didn't have the Mr. Inside to make it work, but he was determined that it had to be. It was truly The Frankosaurus on steroids. Luckily it was the no-O Buffaloes and the Pards won, but...

If, on the other hand, you want to add the 2011 Bucknell SnowBowl to the list I wouldn't object. Some say it was a legitimate effort, but I didn't think so.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not sure Lafayette would have came within 21 points of Lehigh in 2011 had they played 10x.

[Pard4Life]

[QUOTE=Pard4Life;1957692]

I stand corrected. I was indeed referring to the 2011 Lehigh game.

No, I meant what I said - Bucknell 2012. Frank was determined to hit the middle, hit the middle, and then do it again. His o-line couldn't handle it and he didn't have the Mr. Inside to make it work, but he was determined that it had to be. It was truly The Frankosaurus on steroids. Luckily it was the no-O Buffaloes and the Pards won, but...

If, on the other hand, you want to add the 2011 Bucknell SnowBowl to the list I wouldn't object. Some say it was a legitimate effort, but I didn't think so.

Yes, I stand corrected on the 2012 Bucknell game... and I was at the game! Bucknell would stack 7-8 in the box every down and we would run every down. Bucknell did nothing save for two big plays due to our defense, and we still nearly lost. And then the offense and defense went in opposite directions following the RMU game.

The 2011 Snow Bowl does not belong on the list; it really was an effort. We just fumbled five times and Bucknell did not.

[Pard4Life]

I'm not sure Lafayette would have came within 21 points of Lehigh in 2011 had they played 10x.

No, Basset's simulation had us losing a few by a narrow margin and even winning about one in ten...

And ps... we scored a touchdown at NDSU... xrotatehx

[RichH2]

Replaying past seasons may help pass some time over the next 3 months. Are we starting to sound like old Ivy alum recounting the game of 1987 ....and we're 100 yrs newer. Geez, I may be becoming a crotchety old fart.

[heath]

No, Basset's simulation had us losing a few by a narrow margin and even winning about one in ten...

And ps... we scored a touchdown at NDSU... xrotatehx

Did you win the REAL game or not?What the hell does a simulation have to do with anything? And ps...Glad you guys scored touchdown in most games,in the future just make sure you do that more often than your opponentxconfusedx What ever floats your boatxeyebrowx

[carney2]

Replaying past seasons may help pass some time over the next 3 months. Are we starting to sound like old Ivy alum recounting the game of 1987 ....and we're 100 yrs newer. Geez, I may be becoming a crotchety old fart.

It's definite. You can leave "may" out of that sentence.

[carney2]

I'm not sure Lafayette would have came within 21 points of Lehigh in 2011 had they played 10x.

Not disagreeing. It was a mismatch from the get-go, BUT to begin planning the bus ride home at the 5 minute mark in the first quarter was unforgivable. Another Tavani no-show, and one of the worst simply because of the opponent.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not disagreeing. It was a mismatch from the get-go, BUT to begin planning the bus ride home at the 5 minute mark in the first quarter was unforgivable. Another Tavani no-show, and one of the worst simply because of the opponent.

I was genuinely surprised Frank wasn't dismissed after that game. Lembo left town for less. In fact, an interesting "what if" could have been: had "The Big Hurt" not happened, what might have happened? Would Pete have stayed? Would Andy have come?

[Pard4Life]

Did you win the REAL game or not?What the hell does a simulation have to do with anything? And ps...Glad you guys scored touchdown in most games,in the future just make sure you do that more often than your opponentxconfusedx What ever floats your boatxeyebrowx

Owl was speaking in hypotheticals and I gave him the hypothetical answer. Our odds of winning were 13%, so that's winning one in ten...

[Pard4Life]

I was genuinely surprised Frank wasn't dismissed after that game. Lembo left town for less. In fact, an interesting "what if" could have been: had "The Big Hurt" not happened, what might have happened? Would Pete have stayed? Would Andy have come?

LFN, after following the Lafayette board, do you really think that Tavani would be dismissed? Coaching jobs at Lafayette are more secure than jobs with the City of Philadelphia. You need to be grossly negligent (kind of Eve Atkinson), very incompetent (Tammy Smith), or foster a poor environment (our recent softball coach). At LC, you are supposed to win, but not too much. Tavani has now come back to Earth and fits the bill.

Andy would have moved on regardless. He was young with a HC job at a fairly renowned school, Coach of the Year accolades, and averaging 9 wins per year. He would have been silly not to move up... but maybe he would have stayed at Lehigh a year or two and then jump directly to FBS instead of going sideways at Elon. Still, he proved himself by turning a program around, likely a key trait for being hired into an FBS program.

[carney2]

I was genuinely surprised Frank wasn't dismissed after that game. Lembo left town for less. In fact, an interesting "what if" could have been: had "The Big Hurt" not happened, what might have happened? Would Pete have stayed? Would Andy have come?

P4L is correct. Coaching jobs at Lafayette are as good as tenured professorships - in fact, some say that Frank has the equivalent of tenure. (I have no idea, but the reports on the Lafayette board are from the usually reliable sources.) A Lafayette coach may be discharged for malfeasance, misfeasance or perceived political incorrectness, but rarely for losing. As P4L hinted, "win, but not too much" is an implied part of a Pard coach's job description. In fact, those back-to back-to back co-championships may have moved him closer to the "hot seat" than anything he's done since.

[Pard4Life]

P4L is correct. Coaching jobs at Lafayette are as good as tenured professorships - in fact, some say that Frank has the equivalent of tenure. (I have no idea, but the reports on the Lafayette board are from the usually reliable sources.) A Lafayette coach may be discharged for malfeasance, misfeasance or political incorrectness, but rarely for losing. As P4L hinted, "win, but not too much" is an implied part of a Pard coach's job description. In fact, those back-to back-to back co-championships may have moved him closer to the "hot seat" than anything he's done since.

You coined it c2.

[Go...gate]

There are many that say the same "win, but not too much" philosophy prevails in connection with the Princeton football program. Steve Tosches, the only successful coach since the late 1960's, got in a battle with the admissions department and was fired. Roger Hughes, who succeeded Tosches, had one winning season (he tied for the Ivy title concurrently) and really was only in trouble his last year. Bob Surace has struggled but remains safe.

[carney2]

There are many that say the same "win, but not too much" philosophy prevails in connection with the Princeton football program.

You're probably right. If they really cared about winning they'd schedule Lafayette every year instead of once every three years or so. (38-4-3 since 1883.)

[Go...gate]

For the life of me, I cannot understand what happens to you guys when you play Princeton.

[Sader87]

For the life of me, I cannot understand what happens to you guys when you play Princeton.

The same thing that happens when we play Yale (4-27)....no other rivalry of ours approximates our ineptitude when it comes to playing the Eli.

[ngineer]

P4L is correct. Coaching jobs at Lafayette are as good as tenured professorships - in fact, some say that Frank has the equivalent of tenure. (I have no idea, but the reports on the Lafayette board are from the usually reliable sources.) A Lafayette coach may be discharged for malfeasance, misfeasance or perceived political incorrectness, but rarely for losing. As P4L hinted, "win, but not too much" is an implied part of a Pard coach's job description. In fact, those back-to back-to back co-championships may have moved him closer to the "hot seat" than anything he's done since.

Your prior basketball coach, who is now the 'sideline reporter' on the RCN telecasts, was 'gently removed' for not winning, was he not??
As I have said elsewhere, Pistol Pete was leaving regardless. He was/is a man with that 'faraway look' in his eye looking for the next rung. The Elon opportunity was too good not to take, and was a 'step up' conference-wise with scholarships, visibility and a losing program that had nowhere to go but up. Timing was perfect.

[Go Green]

Roger Hughes, who succeeded Tosches, had one winning season (he tied for the Ivy title concurrently) and really was only in trouble his last year. Bob Surace has struggled but remains safe.

Hughes had more than one winning season.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_coach_year_by_year.php?coachid=1136

He seemed to get snakebit every year with injuries to key players and/or academic suspensions (lost his entire starting secondary to a cheating scandal one season).

When he left, the program took an absolute nosedive. They've gotten back on their feet, but if Princeton has a poor season in 2013 (and I think they'll be fine), Surace will indeed be shown the door.

[Franks Tanks]

Your prior basketball coach, who is now the 'sideline reporter' on the RCN telecasts, was 'gently removed' for not winning, was he not??
As I have said elsewhere, Pistol Pete was leaving regardless. He was/is a man with that 'faraway look' in his eye looking for the next rung. The Elon opportunity was too good not to take, and was a 'step up' conference-wise with scholarships, visibility and a losing program that had nowhere to go but up. Timing was perfect.

Yup, but is took a 2 win season to get John fired. He also remains an employee of the college in our fundraising dept.

[carney2]

Your prior basketball coach, who is now the 'sideline reporter' on the RCN telecasts, was 'gently removed' for not winning, was he not?

You are correct, but it is so rare that you have to go back 20 years to find an example. He and women's basketball coach Tammy Smith are the only ones I can think of who were removed for "losing." In both cases it became an embarrassment to the College and the decision makers caved to the opinions of influential alumni. Remember, it's "win, but don't win too much." When you win virtually not at all as those two did there can occasionally be consequences if it's a marquis (no pun intended) sport.

By the way, the "prior basketball coach" referenced by ngineer is John Leone who, as mentioned by P4L, is still an employee of Lafayette College. John is a gentleman and a credit to the College in every way. He has a good word for everyone, even me.

[RichH2]

Leone is indeed a very nice man. Well worth knowing. Different people but same can ne said for Sal Mentasana. Heck of a nice guy.

[DFW HOYA]

Each school has its own criteria for what works with a coach. Not every coach needs to win a title to keep his job--what works for one sport may not work for another.

[Bogus Megapardus]

P4L is correct. Coaching jobs at Lafayette are as good as tenured professorships - in fact, some say that Frank has the equivalent of tenure. (I have no idea, but the reports on the Lafayette board are from the usually reliable sources.) A Lafayette coach may be discharged for malfeasance, misfeasance or perceived political incorrectness, but rarely for losing. As P4L hinted, "win, but not too much" is an implied part of a Pard coach's job description. In fact, those back-to back-to back co-championships may have moved him closer to the "hot seat" than anything he's done since.

Piling on here - Frank Tavani is the Head Coach of Lafayette Football for the duration. There is less than zero chance that he'll be dismissed, forced out or will retire before he's ready. Nor would I want him to be. His assistants might change (except for John Loose) but the Frankosaurus will remain for 5-7 more years at minimum. He's only 59; he's well-liked by the administration and he goes to considerable lengths to to recruit students, not simply bodies. He has little tolerance for players who aren't cutting it academically - a concept that he takes to heart; it's not something he does because he feels he "has" to. This endears him to the administration, the faculty and, quite frankly, most of the alumni.

This is not to say that Frank simply will bend to faculty pressure. He'll press, and press hard, to get what he wants and needs to make Lafayette football a success. I think we'll see the fruits of that this season.

[Franks Tanks]

You are correct, but it is so rare that you have to go back 20 years to find an example. He and women's basketball coach Tammy Smith are the only ones I can think of who were removed for "losing." In both cases it became an embarrassment to the College and the decision makers caved to the opinions of influential alumni. Remember, it's "win, but don't win too much." When you win virtually not at all as those two did there can occasionally be consequences if it's a marquis (no pun intended) sport.

By the way, the "prior basketball coach" referenced by ngineer is John Leone who, as mentioned by P4L, is still an employee of Lafayette College. John is a gentleman and a credit to the College in every way. He has a good word for everyone, even me.

Terry Managhan (MLAx) did not get fired, but he had to see the writing on the wall and left for a position outside of coaching. Lafayette will fire a coach, but the situation must be extremely dire to do so.

[heath]

Piling on here - Frank Tavani is the Head Coach of Lafayette Football for the duration. There is less than zero chance that he'll be dismissed, forced out or will retire before he's ready. Nor would I want him to be. His assistants might change (except for John Loose) but the Frankosaurus will remain for 5-7 more years at minimum. He's only 59; he's well-liked by the administration and he goes to considerable lengths to to recruit students, not simply bodies. He has little tolerance for players who aren't cutting it academically - a concept that he takes to heart; it's not something he does because he feels he "has" to. This endears him to the administration, the faculty and, quite frankly, most of the alumni.

This is not to say that Frank simply will bend to faculty pressure. He'll press, and press hard, to get what he wants and needs to make Lafayette football a success. I think we'll see the fruits of that this season.

unless you guys have a HELP button,the only fruit you'll see is a rotten banana.Much like JMU,talent is there but the coaching gets in the wayxnodx

[DFW HOYA]

Piling on here - Frank Tavani is the Head Coach of Lafayette Football for the duration. There is less than zero chance that he'll be dismissed, forced out or will retire before he's ready.

There is one scenario out there that could force a decision sooner rather than later, namely, the Lehigh series. Much like the West Point coach who knows that losing seasons are one thing, but annual losses to Navy are much more detrimental, Tavani has to get LC into the win column against the Engineers.

The last two Lafayette coaches ended their tenures with consecutive losses in the series and Tavani is at five straight. If the Engineers win big this season and then capture the 150th, that's not going to help down the road.

[ngineer]

You are correct, but it is so rare that you have to go back 20 years to find an example. He and women's basketball coach Tammy Smith are the only ones I can think of who were removed for "losing." In both cases it became an embarrassment to the College and the decision makers caved to the opinions of influential alumni. Remember, it's "win, but don't win too much." When you win virtually not at all as those two did there can occasionally be consequences if it's a marquis (no pun intended) sport.

By the way, the "prior basketball coach" referenced by ngineer is John Leone who, as mentioned by P4L, is still an employee of Lafayette College. John is a gentleman and a credit to the College in every way. He has a good word for everyone, even me.

yes, I had forgotten Leone's name. Happens with more frequency with my age. And he is a super person. VBK's termination was certainly a 'different story'. I think Frank is 61,now? I thought he was class of '74 at Lebanon Valley. So maybe another 5 til he gets to 66/67 for the full SS to apply.

[Go Green]

The same thing that happens when we play Yale (4-27)....no other rivalry of ours approximates our ineptitude when it comes to playing the Eli.

Part of that can be explained by the fact that HC and Yale did not play during HC's glory scholarship run of the late 1980s and early 1990s. And the series resumed when HC dropped the scholarships.

Is there a backstory behind that? HC went something like 35-0 against the rest of the Ivy during that period.

[carney2]

There is one scenario out there that could force a decision sooner rather than later, namely, the Lehigh series.

Normally I pay attention when I see your signature DFW, but in this case you know not of what you speak. Lehigh losses notwithstanding, there is absolutely no way that Frank Tavani leaves but, as Bogie says, under his own terms. The exceptions would be

Proof of abusing players a la Mike Rice
Use of the N word
Gay slurs
Denigrating women or the gender bender studies program that is held in such high esteem at Lafayette

Anything else would be giving the impression that intercollegiate athletics are important and actually have a place in the Lafayette experience.

[Go Green]

There is one scenario out there that could force a decision sooner rather than later, namely, the Lehigh series. Much like the West Point coach who knows that losing seasons are one thing, but annual losses to Navy are much more detrimental, Tavani has to get LC into the win column against the Engineers.
.

Even winning coaches get canned if theyc continuously lose to their hated rival long enough. See, e.g., John Cooper (Ohio State) and Jack Siedlecki (Yale).

[DFW HOYA]

Normally I pay attention when I see your signature DFW, but in this case you know not of what you speak. Lehigh losses notwithstanding, there is absolutely no way that Frank Tavani leaves but, as Bogie says, under his own terms.

I respect your knowledge of the situation and defer to it, but if he were to lose seven straight, that can't be well received when the contract runs out in 2015.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I respect your knowledge of the situation and defer to it, but if he were to lose seven straight, that can't be well received when the contract runs out in 2015.

I, too, have a real hard time believing that losing seven straight to Lehigh will be greeted with a shrug, despite the usual, admittedly reliable, Lafayette board folks.

[Sader87]

Part of that can be explained by the fact that HC and Yale did not play during HC's glory scholarship run of the late 1980s and early 1990s. And the series resumed when HC dropped the scholarships.

Is there a backstory behind that? HC went something like 35-0 against the rest of the Ivy during that period.

Yes and no. Yale beat us in '81 (29-28 classic contest) and 1985 (19-15)...both games HC coulda, shoulda won. There have been 3 or 4 games from about the mid-90's on that we absolutely gave away. They just seem to have our number for some reason...the only school close to that (over 25 games) is Syracuse (5-23).

[carney2]

I, too, have a real hard time believing that losing seven straight to Lehigh will be greeted with a shrug, despite the usual, admittedly reliable, Lafayette board folks.

Believe what you will, but the Leopard faithful KNOW that Tavani will not be terminated unless he commits some heinous act that would almost certainly have to do with political correctness. He was the good - and silent - soldier when his equivalencies were cut by 25%. He represents the College well in public appearances. He gives more than lip service to the academics of his players. He won, but not too much. He is therefore the perfect Lafayette coach.

Oh, and he has placed himself in a position where losing 7 in a row to the Squawks is no certainty - and probably not even a good bet.

[Go...gate]

Hughes had more than one winning season.

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/coaching/alltime_coach_year_by_year.php?coachid=1136

He seemed to get snakebit every year with injuries to key players and/or academic suspensions (lost his entire starting secondary to a cheating scandal one season).

When he left, the program took an absolute nosedive. They've gotten back on their feet, but if Princeton has a poor season in 2013 (and I think they'll be fine), Surace will indeed be shown the door.

You are right and I am wrong - I should have said only one Ivy League Championship.

Notwithstanding, the record was hardly sparkling most of the time.

[bison137]

[QUOTE=carney2;1957776]

The 2011 Snow Bowl does not belong on the list; it really was an effort. We just fumbled five times and Bucknell did not.


I won't attempt to judge effort - but the result clearly was determined by more the differential of 3 fumbles (not 5). Excluding sacks, Lafayette gained 30 yards rushing on 25 attempts (1.2 ypc), while Bucknell gained 235 yards rushing on 51 attempts (4.6 ypc) despite everyone in the stadium knowing they were going to run it on every play. As for fumbles, LC fumbled 4 times and Bucknell once. That was partly offset by BU being called for 8 penalties (85 yards) while LC was called for three.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh, and he has placed himself in a position where losing 7 in a row to the Squawks is no certainty - and probably not even a good bet.

That would equal the epic 1995-2001 stretch, the only time in The Rivalry it's been done. Sometime in the 1890s there was a stretch where Lehigh didn't lose in 8 straight meetings (it might be 9, with a tie sandwiched in the middle). Lafayette of course had an unbelievable stretch in the 1910s and 1920s where they won something like 18 of 20.

[heath]

Even winning coaches get canned if theyc continuously lose to their hated rival long enough. See, e.g., John Cooper (Ohio State) and Jack Siedlecki (Yale).

The greatxlolx AL GROH got booted at UVA for not beating VT enough.The boosters and $$$ supporters always want that rivalry win.If Tavani is secure with his losing records, then you guys are in for a long miserable ridexconfusedx