Next to Leave FCS???

[atlfcsfan]

With W. Kentucky's announcement that they are leaving the Sun Belt, seems they need 1 more team to keep things balanced.

Who's up next???


James Madison?
Delaware?
Liberty?

[gsu2583]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlclUwqDo3s

Scarface = App/GaSouthern
1st 'FU' = Furman
2nd 'FU' = Delaware
3rd 'FU' = Wofford
"You're cool" = NDSU
Final 'FU' = Bobby Wilder
Guy in the yellow T-shirt = Liberty/Lehigh

[MplsBison]

JMU to the Sun Belt.

Won't bet my next pay check on it, but that's who I would pick as the Sun Belt if I'm looking for one. Liberty is nice and all...but too religious. Don't want that baggage.

[TTUEagles]

Jacksonville State?

[344Johnson]

JMU to the Sun Belt.

Won't bet my next pay check on it, but that's who I would pick as the Sun Belt if I'm looking for one. Liberty is nice and all...but too religious. Don't want that baggage.


I'd guess JMU.

[knucklehead]

Looks like JMU or LU right now, but who knows right now. Just don't trust any of these rumors right now.

[Apphole]

JMU, JMU a thousand times, JMU.

I'd be just as upset if Liberty is added than I was when Idaho was added.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

JMU, JMU a thousand times, JMU.

I'd be just as upset if Liberty is added than I was when Idaho was added.

Thanks for giving me a rooting interest.

[Babar]

Princeton! They finally decided this non-scholarship stuff was ill-considered. We're joining our friends in the Pac-12 (14 now, not sure who the other school is), where we've always belonged. Boosters got an email today. Public announcement will be tomorrow, on Princeton's cable channel.

So excitedxpeacex

[AppAlum2003]

Thanks for giving me a rooting interest.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/0/5/1/6/6/3/9/Butthurt-Is-Strong-With-This-One-75011504919.jpeg

[Pard4Life]

This thread also means "the next to drop football."

[Laker]

This thread also means "the next to drop football."

I thought about that, but I have no idea who is actually thinking about doing so. xscanx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Princeton! They finally decided this non-scholarship stuff was ill-considered. We're joining our friends in the Pac-12 (14 now, not sure who the other school is), where we've always belonged. Boosters got an email today. Public announcement will be tomorrow, on Princeton's cable channel.

So excitedxpeacex

I am a bit stunned you won't be joining Rutgers in the new, Division III B1G.

[Babar]

This thread also means "the next to drop football."

I mean, it's join the Pac, or that.

[bandit]

James Madison is the logical choice - if they want it. That's the question. There is no question they are a far far far better choice than Liberty -- and the fact that Liberty is even being discussed is evidence of the paltry options the Sun Belt has. Missouri State would certainly be a good choice but would they be willing to leave the MVC for the Sun Belt? I doubt it. Jacksonville State is ready, willing and eager, but you've got Troy and South Alabama already. JMU brings much more potential, and would be logical in an Eastern wing including App State, Ga Southern, Ga State, Troy and South Alabama.

Now that GMU is gone, I'd say the odds of JMU making the move are better. Their fans are clamoring for it - it's gotta be painful for them to watch ODU restart their program and then leapfrog them right into CUSA. Richmond left years ago, VCU went to the Final 4 and parlayed that into an A10 invite (and they were even mentioned for the Big East), and now GMU is gone too. The only VA school left in the CAA along w/ JMU is W&M. Not an ideal situation, to say the least. The Sun Belt is their only path to FBS unless they can somehow get into the MAC for FB only. I would imagine that schools like App State and Ga Southern + the existing Sun Belt schools would bring more excitement than the average MAC directional Michigan or Ohio school.

But if somehow JMU decides not to make the move, then you see how desperate the Sun Belt wants 12. I'd go with Jacksonville State, Lamar, Sam Houston or anybody with a pulse for that matter over Liberty University. I can't imagine many universities are eager to be associated with that bastion of bigotry. But who knows... this whole expansion game has been crazy. Maybe Liberty gets a look if there are literally no other choices.

[Saint3333]

Interesting that programs rumored and ready to move to FBS didn't push hard for it until an upstart program with football joined the ranks.

JMU - do it guys, you are a team I respect and would love to hate.

[bandit]

If Liberty seriously is a candidate that only makes it more likely JMU will take the spot if offered. Imagine their fans' reactions if Liberty passes them up after ODU has already done so, along with Richmond, VCU and GMU all going to a stronger, higher-profile league. They can't really be that stupid in Harrisonburg - can they? They have to take the bid (if it comes) or they will forever regret it.

[MplsBison]

If Liberty seriously is a candidate that only makes it more likely JMU will take the spot if offered. Imagine their fans' reactions if Liberty passes them up after ODU has already done so, along with Richmond, VCU and GMU all going to a stronger, higher-profile league. They can't really be that stupid in Harrisonburg - can they? They have to take the bid (if it comes) or they will forever regret it.

With that stadium JMU has up there, I can't see them turning down a Sun Belt or MAC invite.

[TheRevSFA]

As was stated a few weeks ago, JMU is who the Sun Belt wants to ask. If they don't join, then I bet the SBC looks at Lamar

[bandit]

I hope you're right. I think the Sun Belt would make more sense long-term.

[DFW HOYA]

I'd go with Jacksonville State, Lamar, Sam Houston or anybody with a pulse for that matter over Liberty University. I can't imagine many universities are eager to be associated with that bastion of bigotry.

So, would you say the same about BYU?

[bandit]

So, would you say the same about BYU?


Yes. Why do you think the Pac passed on BYU, and that there is exactly ZERO chance of them ever getting into the Pac?

But even still, Liberty is a different story altogether. They are zealous bigots who actively engage in anti-gay propaganda and political activities through their partnership with Liberty Counsel. It's not simply a matter of "well, if you don't want to go there and follow their rules, then don't". They are a nuthouse that does their very best to harm gay Americans in any way possible. They are driven by pure hatred and malice under the guise of religion. Living in Virginia as a gay man, and having a close friend who attended Liberty, I know all about them. It's a vile place and if I was a fan of a Sun Belt school I would make it clear to my administration that I would be opposed to having ANY association with them whatsoever.

[Franks Tanks]

Liberty. Their fan base is just too large and strong to ignore. The school is big and getting bigger. They also have thousands of online students who my have some allegiance to Liberty and their sports teams. Remember in the end it is really all about money, and Liberty can deliver fans.

JMU is also on the way out IMO, but Liberty will be next.

[Sir William]

Yes. Why do you think the Pac passed on BYU, and that there is exactly ZERO chance of them ever getting into the Pac?

But even still, Liberty is a different story altogether. They are zealous bigots who actively engage in anti-gay propaganda and political activities through their partnership with Liberty Counsel. It's not simply a matter of "well, if you don't want to go there and follow their rules, then don't". They are a nuthouse that does their very best to harm gay Americans in any way possible. They are driven by pure hatred and malice under the guise of religion. Living in Virginia as a gay man, and having a close friend who attended Liberty, I know all about them. It's a vile place and if I was a fan of a Sun Belt school I would make it clear to my administration that I would be opposed to having ANY association with them whatsoever.

Appears that you've got a little bit of "hatred" going on as well. Just an observation.

[Sandlapper Spike]

JMU's beat writers seem to think it is highly unlikely the school accepts a Sun Belt invite.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes. Why do you think the Pac passed on BYU, and that there is exactly ZERO chance of them ever getting into the Pac?

The Pac passed on BYU because BYU has their own TV network and BYU wasn't going to share that revenue. BYU I'm certain is quite happy with being an FBS independent and being able to keep the pot of money all to themselves.

[DFW HOYA]

JMU is probably a better fit for the MAC. The Sun belt schools are now so disparate (as far west as San Marcos, TX) that it would be a significant challenge for JMU's other sports to remain relevant.

Sometimes teams can overreach in conference realignment. See West Virginia.

[ncbears]

Yes. Why do you think the Pac passed on BYU, and that there is exactly ZERO chance of them ever getting into the Pac?

But even still, Liberty is a different story altogether. They are zealous bigots who actively engage in anti-gay propaganda and political activities through their partnership with Liberty Counsel. It's not simply a matter of "well, if you don't want to go there and follow their rules, then don't". They are a nuthouse that does their very best to harm gay Americans in any way possible. They are driven by pure hatred and malice under the guise of religion. Living in Virginia as a gay man, and having a close friend who attended Liberty, I know all about them. It's a vile place and if I was a fan of a Sun Belt school I would make it clear to my administration that I would be opposed to having ANY association with them whatsoever.

So you're telling me they're not sharing Christ's love and grace? I'm not surprised.

[MplsBison]

Yes. Why do you think the Pac passed on BYU, and that there is exactly ZERO chance of them ever getting into the Pac?

But even still, Liberty is a different story altogether. They are zealous bigots who actively engage in anti-gay propaganda and political activities through their partnership with Liberty Counsel. It's not simply a matter of "well, if you don't want to go there and follow their rules, then don't". They are a nuthouse that does their very best to harm gay Americans in any way possible. They are driven by pure hatred and malice under the guise of religion. Living in Virginia as a gay man, and having a close friend who attended Liberty, I know all about them. It's a vile place and if I was a fan of a Sun Belt school I would make it clear to my administration that I would be opposed to having ANY association with them whatsoever.

I personally would not want anything to do with anything linked to Jerry Falwell. But that's my preference.

[MplsBison]

The Pac passed on BYU because BYU has their own TV network and BYU wasn't going to share that revenue. BYU I'm certain is quite happy with being an FBS independent and being able to keep the pot of money all to themselves.

Nonsense, pure and simple. They'd lunge at a chance to join the PAC, if for nothing else than to stick it to Utah.

PAC invite has never been on the table and never will be. Too many high intellectual, research minded schools that will never freely choose to associate with a religious institution.

[MplsBison]

JMU's beat writers seem to think it is highly unlikely the school accepts a Sun Belt invite.

Why? Links?

[Sandlapper Spike]

Cal-Berkeley would never support BYU being admitted to the Pac-12. I don't think Stanford would either.

[MplsBison]

JMU is probably a better fit for the MAC. The Sun belt schools are now so disparate (as far west as San Marcos, TX) that it would be a significant challenge for JMU's other sports to remain relevant.

Sometimes teams can overreach in conference realignment. See West Virginia.

West Virginia to the Big XII being a "huge mistake" is nothing more than message board banter from FCS or Big East fans who try to point and laugh at something that works.

It doesn't look right on a map - sure. But it works just as well as anything in elite level college athletics.

[MplsBison]

Cal-Berkeley would never support BYU being admitted to the Pac-12. I don't think Stanford would either.

Nor UCLA or Washington.

[Sandlapper Spike]

Why? Links?

Tweets as opposed to news stories. Mark Selig for one; he said on Twitter that "from what we're hearing, JMU has nearly ZERO interest in the Sun Belt and doesn't plan to make any decisions until report is done in September". That was backed up by Matthew Stoss.

[smallcollegefbfan]

JMU to the Sun Belt.

Won't bet my next pay check on it, but that's who I would pick as the Sun Belt if I'm looking for one. Liberty is nice and all...but too religious. Don't want that baggage.

I have to ask why being religious is baggage? This country was founded by Christians and EVERY state constitution mentions God in it. I think Liberty and JMU both should be invited.

You say Liberty has baggage but here is what I see.

1. A school who loves Jesus and does the right things and just happens to have over 100M bucks to spend. They have more money than they know what to do with. I'm sure that has nothing to do with them doing things the right way? (sarcasm there) lol

2. They have great facilities.

3. They want FBS badly.

4. They have their own TV network, which could be

5. Adding Liberty and JMU both really expands the SBC footprint to VA and gives them another strong recruiting state in the footprint.

Adding Liberty or JMU or both is in no way a bad thing. In fact, I can argue those two programs are better than WKU.

[Catatonic]

Cal-Berkeley would never support BYU being admitted to the Pac-12. I don't think Stanford would either.

Cal and several other PAC schools refused to consider Baylor as part of a package deal to attract Texas. I suspect the reasons were the same---religious intolerance. Somewhat ironic for a school that tolerates virtually every ideology known to man in an effort to promote diversity and safeguard academic freedom.

[bandit]

Appears that you've got a little bit of "hatred" going on as well. Just an observation.


The "you don't tolerate my hatred and intolerance" argument! Nice! xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Cal and several other PAC schools refused to consider Baylor as part of a package deal to attract Texas. I suspect the reasons were the same---religious intolerance. Somewhat ironic for a school that tolerates virtually every ideology known to man in an effort to promote diversity and safeguard academic freedom.

I honestly think the moves were pragmatic, not religious intolerance. Adding Texas and Baylor (and a whole lot of other schools) together meant they'd be divvying up the money pot too much, and Baylor doesn't command a national presence (read: get TV viewers) the same way other religious-based schools like Notre Dame and BYU do.

I think the reasons for the Sun Belt not admitting Liberty are also in the same vein. At first glance it looks like religious discrimination, but upon closer look it's not.

[bandit]

Sometimes teams can overreach in conference realignment. See West Virginia.


Are you delusional?

How exactly did WVU overreach. Compare the $$$ they are getting now with the old Big East. Are you suggesting they stay and enjoy life with the likes of East Carolina, SMU, Temple and Tulane - - while making a fraction of the $$$? What did they do to overreach? The ACC wasn't interested, the SEC chose Missouri instead, and the Big 10 isn't interested.

Exactly what should WVU have done? Very curious to know how they could have avoided this "overreach".

[bandit]

1. A school who loves Jesus and does the right things and just happens to have over 100M bucks to spend. They have more money than they know what to do with. I'm sure that has nothing to do with them doing things the right way? (sarcasm there) lol



There is nothing about what Liberty University does that the Jesus of the Bible would consider "the right way". Do a little research about the lunatics running that place.

[MplsBison]

I have to ask why being religious is baggage? This country was founded by Christians and EVERY state constitution mentions God in it. I think Liberty and JMU both should be invited.

You say Liberty has baggage but here is what I see.

1. A school who loves Jesus and does the right things and just happens to have over 100M bucks to spend. They have more money than they know what to do with. I'm sure that has nothing to do with them doing things the right way? (sarcasm there) lol

2. They have great facilities.

3. They want FBS badly.

4. They have their own TV network, which could be

5. Adding Liberty and JMU both really expands the SBC footprint to VA and gives them another strong recruiting state in the footprint.

Adding Liberty or JMU or both is in no way a bad thing. In fact, I can argue those two programs are better than WKU.

Nothing against Liberty's program or players.

I'm sure people who associate with the program feel they're doing things "the right way". Also nothing wrong with that, good for you.


I want nothing of it. Give me public, secular schools, please. Thanks

[MplsBison]

I honestly think the moves were pragmatic, not religious intolerance. Adding Texas and Baylor (and a whole lot of other schools) together meant they'd be divvying up the money pot too much, and Baylor doesn't command a national presence (read: get TV viewers) the same way other religious-based schools like Notre Dame and BYU do.

I think the reasons for the Sun Belt not admitting Liberty are also in the same vein. At first glance it looks like religious discrimination, but upon closer look it's not.

BYU doesn't get TV viewers like Notre Dame does. Not even close. Obviously.

[smallcollegefbfan]

There is nothing about what Liberty University does that the Jesus of the Bible would consider "the right way". Do a little research about the lunatics running that place.

I know about some things done in the past but I think they are working on righting those wrongs. People don't seem to want to forgive others or look at someone and see things have changed. I know of people in the media and NFL who were awful at their job when they started but they have become pretty good.

Liberty has done some crazy things in the past but I think the SBC should be willing to talk to them. Liberty has tons of money, their own TV network, and great facilities.

But it was said they are religious so that is baggage. Being a Christian school is not a bad thing. Only doing crazy things like blowing up a building and saying your god told you to do it is crazy. I really think Liberty and JMU would be a good package add for the SBC.

[bandit]

I know about some things done in the past but I think they are working on righting those wrongs. People don't seem to want to forgive others or look at someone and see things have changed. I know of people in the media and NFL who were awful at their job when they started but they have become pretty good.

Liberty has done some crazy things in the past but I think the SBC should be willing to talk to them. Liberty has tons of money, their own TV network, and great facilities.

But it was said they are religious so that is baggage. Being a Christian school is not a bad thing. Only doing crazy things like blowing up a building and saying your god told you to do it is crazy. I really think Liberty and JMU would be a good package add for the SBC.


The issue is not that they are "religious". There are many religiously affiliated schools that don't engage in the kind of vicious bigotry and activism that Liberty does. The problems with Liberty go much deeper than a typical "religious" school, and it's not "in the past" - it's ongoing.

[smallcollegefbfan]

The issue is not that they are "religious". There are many religiously affiliated schools that don't engage in the kind of vicious bigotry and activism that Liberty does. The problems with Liberty go much deeper than a typical "religious" school, and it's not "in the past" - it's ongoing.

I was told by someone there that when Jerry died they started to fix a lot of that stuff. I don't pay attention much to that stuff now mainly because I figured it would take a few years to completely fix it. Liberty has a lot of advantages so I'm pulling for them to go FBS like they want. I hope they fix those things going on. They bring a lot to a FBS conference.

[AppAlum2003]

I was told by someone there that when Jerry died they started to fix a lot of that stuff. I don't pay attention much to that stuff now mainly because I figured it would take a few years to completely fix it. Liberty has a lot of advantages so I'm pulling for them to go FBS like they want. I hope they fix those things going on. They bring a lot to a FBS conference.

My biggest issue with Liberty is not their religious affiliations. They are a private institution and are allowed to believe what they believe.

My biggest problem with Liberty is that they're doing it the wrong way. The place is a freakin' diploma mill. They accept anyone and everyone as long as they have the $$$ to pay. On top of that, they have what? 40,000 "online students"... some "university".

[smallcollegefbfan]

My biggest issue with Liberty is not their religious affiliations. They are a private institution and are allowed to believe what they believe.

My biggest problem with Liberty is that they're doing it the wrong way. The place is a freakin' diploma mill. They accept anyone and everyone as long as they have the $$$ to pay. On top of that, they have what? 40,000 "online students"... some "university".

I remember thinking the same thing you did at first but they have a TV network, money, and great facilities. I took some classes online when I was in college and I think most students do at this point. The difference between them and many other schools is that they are allowing people to take their courses without living there. They are making tons of money doing it. In that regard I think they are innovative and just ahead of the curve. They have everything that I would say about 10-15 FCS programs wish they had so they could go FBS.

[DFW HOYA]

My biggest problem with Liberty is that they're doing it the wrong way. The place is a freakin' diploma mill. They accept anyone and everyone as long as they have the $$$ to pay. On top of that, they have what? 40,000 "online students"... some "university".

Liberty may not be the gold standard but they're ahead of the curve on distance learning. In less than a generation, platforms like Coursera, Udacty, and edX will be viable options for college-age adults to receive a degree as opposed to a four year residential or commuter experience.

[AppAlum2003]

I remember thinking the same thing you did at first but they have a TV network, money, and great facilities. I took some classes online when I was in college and I think most students do at this point. The difference between them and many other schools is that they are allowing people to take their courses without living there. They are making tons of money doing it. In that regard I think they are innovative and just ahead of the curve. They have everything that I would say about 10-15 FCS programs wish they had so they could go FBS.

Everybody's "innovative" when a profit is to be made.

[MplsBison]

"For profit" higher education is a scam industry, in my opinion - and it needs to be regulated by the government if it's already not.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Everybody's "innovative" when a profit is to be made.

I'm not talking trash to you but I think if App had done it and they had the money so student fees went down and the Yosef Club didn't need as much money you would be all for it. They are innovative and are just ahead of the curve. I will guarantee you that App State will be doing the same thing in this regard within 10-12 years. More and more schools are going to do it.

[TheRevSFA]

Liberty may not be the gold standard but they're ahead of the curve on distance learning. In less than a generation, platforms like Coursera, Udacty, and edX will be viable options for college-age adults to receive a degree as opposed to a four year residential or commuter experience.

If that's the case then let's put the University of Phoenix in the Pac 12

[smallcollegefbfan]

"For profit" higher education is a scam industry, in my opinion - and it needs to be regulated by the government if it's already not.

It's a private school so the government can't and shouldn't. And why would anyone want the government to oversee anything? They can't run our mail efficiently, let alone education or anything else. They need to protect us (military) and keep up our roads and let me handle everything else in my life. I guarantee you I don't waste as much money as they do and I certainly don't spend money I don't have! I don't see how making money is a bad thing. I hope more schools do it so adults who did not finish college can get their degrees easier. You don't realize how many parents are taking courses through Liberty because they don't have time to attend classes. It is helping them out and making lots of money for the school.

[AppAlum2003]

I'm not talking trash to you but I think if App had done it and they had the money so student fees went down and the Yosef Club didn't need as much money you would be all for it. They are innovative and are just ahead of the curve. I will guarantee you that App State will be doing the same thing in this regard within 10-12 years. More and more schools are going to do it.

No, I'm not taking it as that and I definitely respect your opinion on pretty much everything. I just disagree.

IMO, if we're going to invite Liberty, we might as well go ahead and invite DeVry and ITT Tech.

[smallcollegefbfan]

No, I'm not taking it as that and I definitely respect your opinion on pretty much everything. I just disagree.

IMO, if we're going to invite Liberty, we might as well go ahead and invite DeVry and ITT Tech.

Well thank you for that!

Those schools don't have sports. If they had a big campus with a lot of students and fully funded athletics, great facilities, and money then why not? You want schools with a TV network, money, facilities, etc in your conference. Liberty fits that. I'm just telling you that you will see more and more schools do this and it will become accepted. Just give it time. There are a lot of things that are accepted in our society now that weren't in 1960 or 170. This will be fully accepted and widely done within 10-15 years.

[AppAlum2003]

Well thank you for that!

Those schools don't have sports. If they had a big campus with a lot of students and fully funded athletics, great facilities, and money then why not? You want schools with a TV network, money, facilities, etc in your conference. Liberty fits that. I'm just telling you that you will see more and more schools do this and it will become accepted. Just give it time. There are a lot of things that are accepted in our society now that weren't in 1960 or 170. This will be fully accepted and widely done within 10-15 years.

I posted this in another thread awhile back, but I think it applies here too:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiSe4iwwGE

[Hammerhead]

The Post Office is one of the most efficient government agencies around. They deliver a birthday card to any address in America in just 2-4 days. They are only in the red because Congress has them funding a retirement plan for employees who aren't even born yet.
http://union-bulletin.com/news/2013/mar/27/congress-puts-postal-service-tough-spot/

BTW, do you expect the Army or Navy to make money? What about the Supreme Court or Congress? All of these entities are specifically named in the Consitution.


It's a private school so the government can't and shouldn't. And why would anyone want the government to oversee anything? They can't run our mail efficiently, let alone education or anything else.

[kdinva]

The Post Office is one of the most efficient government agencies around. They deliver a birthday card to any address in America in just 2-4 days.

but, is it the correct address? xlolx

two months ago, I dropped off a package at my local USPS depot, paid for tracking, etc.........6 days later, I tracked it..........it hadn't yet left the Depot I dropped it off at....... xbangx xbadx

[knucklehead]

By the way, I know folks who now have a college degree and a better job because of LU online. Some people don't get to go to college right out of HS (can't afford it, or life happens). LU Online helps those folks to work or manage family and get a degree. That's what higher education was supposed to be about. Anyway, LU has 12K+ on campus students and more commuters and that's about to grow a lot with the new dorms being built.

[AppAlum2003]

http://www.mghelmets.com/custom/itt.gif

[rokamortis]

By the way, I know folks who now have a college degree and a better job because of LU online. Some people don't get to go to college right out of HS (can't afford it, or life happens). LU Online helps those folks to work or manage family and get a degree. That's what higher education was supposed to be about. Anyway, LU has 12K+ on campus students and more commuters and that's about to grow a lot with the new dorms being built.

It is funny how off track this thread has gotten, but I'll add my two cents.

From an outsider, it looks like a cash grab. More like University of Phoenix than a more reputable school doing a few online programs. There is a reason that the for profit schools have come under scrutiny, their quality and student support is said to leave a lot to desire. They primarily use adjunct faculty so they keep their costs way down. I know a friend who taught for UoP and he did not have a good experience. They let in students that he said clearly were not ready for college, let alone in the not-as-structured online environment. The course material was dictated and rarely updated. Previous students would post assignments and sell them through nefarious websites, and he caught many students using these services. But when a student was suspected of cheating they at best received a slap on the wrist.

Right or wrong, that's the comparison for Liberty. I heard the vast majority of Liberty professors are not tenured - so I'm sure that adds into the reputation as well.

But ...I have a friend who earned her masters online with Liberty and she had nothing but positive things to say for it.

[Babar]

There is nothing about what Liberty University does that the Jesus of the Bible would consider "the right way". Do a little research about the lunatics running that place.

So, not to fan any flames, but I know a tiny bit about how Liberty handles its business. My guess is that if you interacted with some students or faculty at length, you would come away thinking that they were generally nice people who don't hate you or wish ill upon you. Here's a book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z4M3SE?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links) about a similar experience.

You don't have to agree with the principles that animate Liberty to allow them a place at the table in football. I disagree with the principles animating quite a few schools.

Also, to the extent you think Liberty is "vicious," you might want to encourage interaction with other schools on their part. I don't actually think they're vicious, but if I did, I'd want their cruelty challenged by other examples of functioning, friendly communities.

[MplsBison]

So, not to fan any flames, but I know a tiny bit about how Liberty handles its business. My guess is that if you interacted with some students or faculty at length, you would come away thinking that they were generally nice people who don't hate you or wish ill upon you. Here's a book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z4M3SE?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links) about a similar experience.

You don't have to agree with the principles that animate Liberty to allow them a place at the table in football. I disagree with the principles animating quite a few schools.

Also, to the extent you think Liberty is "vicious," you might want to encourage interaction with other schools on their part. I don't actually think they're vicious, but if I did, I'd want their cruelty challenged by other examples of functioning, friendly communities.

"You don't have to agree with the principles that animate Liberty to allow them a place at the table in football."

Correct. And if you can find it in yourself to set the rest of it aside and just focus on football - absolutely Liberty has a very nice program, as many people have pointed out.


Simply, I don't think you should choose to set the other stuff aside. It's intertwined. Yes, I would be punishing the team for something they didn't necessarily do - I accept that.

[MplsBison]

It's a private school so the government can't and shouldn't. And why would anyone want the government to oversee anything? They can't run our mail efficiently, let alone education or anything else. They need to protect us (military) and keep up our roads and let me handle everything else in my life. I guarantee you I don't waste as much money as they do and I certainly don't spend money I don't have! I don't see how making money is a bad thing. I hope more schools do it so adults who did not finish college can get their degrees easier. You don't realize how many parents are taking courses through Liberty because they don't have time to attend classes. It is helping them out and making lots of money for the school.

I won't be dragged down into debating the philosophies of party who basically subscribe to "spoiled, rich kid politics". Hence why Libertarians have a small, niche appeal - which is just fine.


That said, doesn't matter if it's a private school, federal money is injected directly into their coffers via loans and grants from the government paid directly to students to help pay the absurd tuition charged by said private schools. Therefore, they are correctly subject to federal regulation. End of story - you have no possible counter-argument. That's why all athletic departments are subject to title IX regulation.

Too bad, so sad - enjoy your roads.

[DFW HOYA]

That said, doesn't matter if it's a private school, federal money is injected directly into their coffers via loans and grants from the government paid directly to students to help pay the absurd tuition charged by said private schools. Therefore, they are correctly subject to federal regulation. End of story - you have no possible counter-argument. That's why all athletic departments are subject to title IX regulation.

There are a handful of small private schools which refuse all federal financial aid for its students and therefore Title IX does not apply.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/admissions/financialaid/scholarships_loans.asp

[MplsBison]

There are a handful of small private schools which refuse all federal financial aid for its students and therefore Title IX does not apply.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/admissions/financialaid/scholarships_loans.asp

That's fine.

The program needs to be updated so that the government conditionally awards the money directly to students (via their bank of choice), thus rendering the school is incapable of refusing such aid. But the school will then be bound by federal regulations as the money will be easily traceable to federal payments (the school will simply have no way of knowing at the time of payment).

[dgtw]

I have no dog in the fight concerning Liberty. I want Jax state to get in the Sun Belt but I don't see that happening.

It seems that if Liberty gets the call it will piss a lot of people off. I'm all for people being pissed off, so I'm pulling for Liberty.

[Go...gate]

Princeton! They finally decided this non-scholarship stuff was ill-considered. We're joining our friends in the Pac-12 (14 now, not sure who the other school is), where we've always belonged. Boosters got an email today. Public announcement will be tomorrow, on Princeton's cable channel.

So excitedxpeacex

Oxford and Cambridge. They want to start right at the top! :D

[LeadBolt]

That's fine.

The program needs to be updated so that the government conditionally awards the money directly to students (via their bank of choice), thus rendering the school is incapable of refusing such aid. But the school will then be bound by federal regulations as the money will be easily traceable to federal payments (the school will simply have no way of knowing at the time of payment).

What is so terrible about individuals and institutions being able to make choices and exercise freedoms without the supervision of Big Brother?

[bandit]

If this turns out to be true, the meltdown among JMU fans is going to be pretty epic.


http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/college-football/rumors/post?id=3586


UPDATE: James Madison's lack of interest in making an immediate jump to the FBS ranks has Liberty in a prime position to become the Sun Belt's 12th member. The two sides have already engaged in preliminary talks.
To continue reading this article you must be an Insider

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Can Karl Benson kill two FBS football conferences within the decade?

[knucklehead]

Love the way this is turning.

[MplsBison]

What is so terrible about individuals and institutions being able to make choices and exercise freedoms without the supervision of Big Brother?

Nothing...if we could trust human not to be greedy scam artists.

We can't.

[MplsBison]

If this turns out to be true, the meltdown among JMU fans is going to be pretty epic.


http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/college-football/rumors/post?id=3586


UPDATE: James Madison's lack of interest in making an immediate jump to the FBS ranks has Liberty in a prime position to become the Sun Belt's 12th member. The two sides have already engaged in preliminary talks.
To continue reading this article you must be an Insider

JMU obviously has plans for the MAC, perhaps with Delaware. No reason for them to stick around in the CAA -- unless someone has been bribed.

As I've said, nothing wrong with Liberty's football program. Just don't like the school and especially didn't care for its founder. That's only my personal preference.

[Sammy94]

I hope Liberty goes, I saw Sam mentioned in a few articles and I want no part of the Belt.

[Saint3333]

Seems like Texas St., ULL, ULM, and stAte are blocking any future additions from the Southland. Not sure the history there, but they are really pissed if they'd rather add Liberty (a school in VA) vs. one of you guys.

[MplsBison]

Seems like Texas St., ULL, ULM, and stAte are blocking any future additions from the Southland. Not sure the history there, but they are really pissed if they'd rather add Liberty (a school in VA) vs. one of you guys.

That or they just don't want any more in-state competition?

[PAllen]

Nothing...if we could trust human not to be greedy scam artists.

We can't.

Instead we should trust politicians? xcrazyx

[MplsBison]

Instead we should trust politicians? xcrazyx

Lesser of two evils.

I trust government more than I trust greedy people.

[GlassOnion]

Lesser of two evils.

I trust government more than I trust greedy people.

Greedy government is by far more dangerous than a greedy individual.

[MplsBison]

Bah.

Take it to the politics board.

[bandit]

JMU obviously has plans for the MAC, perhaps with Delaware. No reason for them to stick around in the CAA -- unless someone has been bribed.

As I've said, nothing wrong with Liberty's football program. Just don't like the school and especially didn't care for its founder. That's only my personal preference.


They better have plans for the MAC, and if so they better announce them soon or it will be incredibly demoralizing for their fan base.

That said, even if JMU snubs the Sun Belt, I think it would be a tragic mistake for the Sun Belt to take Liberty. They are about a half-step above Rev. Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church clan. It's a scam university spreading hate, superstition, psuedo-science and mythology as truth, and a regressive political agenda. Why would anybody want to be associated with that? Sad.

[MplsBison]

They better have plans for the MAC, and if so they better announce them soon or it will be incredibly demoralizing for their fan base.

That said, even if JMU snubs the Sun Belt, I think it would be a tragic mistake for the Sun Belt to take Liberty. They are about a half-step above Rev. Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church clan. It's a scam university spreading hate, superstition, psuedo-science and mythology as truth, and a regressive political agenda. Why would anybody want to be associated with that? Sad.

I hear ya. But who else is there to take? Basically Southland schools are the best choices, and I'm assuming the TX-LA-AR schools already in the Sun Belt have told Benson "NO!" on that.

[bandit]

I hear ya. But who else is there to take? Basically Southland schools are the best choices, and I'm assuming the TX-LA-AR schools already in the Sun Belt have told Benson "NO!" on that.

If faced with the prospect of Liberty, perhaps they will get over their reluctance to add Lamar, SHSU or Jacksonville State.

[bandit]

So, not to fan any flames, but I know a tiny bit about how Liberty handles its business. My guess is that if you interacted with some students or faculty at length, you would come away thinking that they were generally nice people who don't hate you or wish ill upon you. Here's a book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004Z4M3SE?ie=UTF8&force-full-site=1&ref_=aw_bottom_links) about a similar experience.

You don't have to agree with the principles that animate Liberty to allow them a place at the table in football. I disagree with the principles animating quite a few schools.

Also, to the extent you think Liberty is "vicious," you might want to encourage interaction with other schools on their part. I don't actually think they're vicious, but if I did, I'd want their cruelty challenged by other examples of functioning, friendly communities.

I know a bit of how Liberty University handles its business as well. "Vicious" is an apt description for the attitudes and behavior in particular of Mat Staver, Dean of the Liberty University Law School and founder of their associated legal/political wing Liberty Counsel. There is nobody in America who has done more to try and vilify, harm and denigrate his fellow Americans who happen to be gay. If you're not familiar with his work, I suggest you look into it a bit. With attitudes among Americans rapidly changing (a recent poll has approval for gay marriage at 58% nationally), politicians (even many republicans) falling over themselves to support gay rights, the Supreme Court likely (according to most legal analysts) to strike down DOMA, and overwhelming - almost universal - support for gay rights and marriage among the young, Liberty will only become more notable for their pernicious anti-gay rhetoric and bigotry. It's surprising to me that more people aren't aware of the activities of Mat Staver and the Liberty Counsel, and some of the things they've been involved in. Remember when Jerry Falwell blamed the gays for 9/11? That attitude hasn't changed. Some say Liberty has made progress and that old previous "stupid" statements were said, but things are different now... and yet Mat Staver still has free reign. They haven't changed, nor will they.

Only 5 days ago from Mat Staver:

"Same-sex marriage is ultimately the abolition of gender; it’s ultimately the abolition of any moral behavior with regards to human sexuality. This whole assault on marriage is really an attempt to obliterate not only morality but Judeo-Christian morality, to obliterate marriage and to even obliterate the idea that there even is a God."

These are the kind of blanket generalizations, ridiculous statements and yeah - viciousness - that comes from Liberty University. People trying to live their lives in peace and equality are really trying to "obliterate the idea that there even is a God". We want to "obliterate morality". And this was a mild example of his rhetoric. It's usually much worse.

Ask yourself why so many people object to Liberty specifically, and not other religious-affiliated schools. There is a reason for it. And like cult members who can't see beyond the boundaries of their cult, many people who go to that school and are involved in that school can't see it either.

There will be a time - perhaps 20 years, 30 years, who knows? - when society looks back on this era in disgust and amazement at some of the intolerance and ridiculous, hysterical anti-gay nonsense the same way we look back on now on the segregationists of the 60s. This is the civil rights issue of our time, and Liberty University has planted themselves firmly on the wrong side of history. If I were involved at a member institution of any Sun Belt school, I would be making it very clear that I would not want to be associated in any way, shape or form with an institution that stands for vilifying and doing everything in its power to harm its fellow American citizens who happen to be gay. They are a disgrace.

[CID1990]

I know a bit of how Liberty University handles its business as well. "Vicious" is an apt description for the attitudes and behavior in particular of Mat Staver, Dean of the Liberty University Law School and founder of their associated legal/political wing Liberty Counsel. There is nobody in America who has done more to try and vilify, harm and denigrate his fellow Americans who happen to be gay. If you're not familiar with his work, I suggest you look into it a bit. With attitudes among Americans rapidly changing (a recent poll has approval for gay marriage at 58% nationally), politicians (even many republicans) falling over themselves to support gay rights, the Supreme Court likely (according to most legal analysts) to strike down DOMA, and overwhelming - almost universal - support for gay rights and marriage among the young, Liberty will only become more notable for their pernicious anti-gay rhetoric and bigotry. It's surprising to me that more people aren't aware of the activities of Mat Staver and the Liberty Counsel, and some of the things they've been involved in. Remember when Jerry Falwell blamed the gays for 9/11? That attitude hasn't changed. Some say Liberty has made progress and that old previous "stupid" statements were said, but things are different now... and yet Mat Staver still has free reign. They haven't changed, nor will they.

Only 5 days ago from Mat Staver:

"Same-sex marriage is ultimately the abolition of gender; it’s ultimately the abolition of any moral behavior with regards to human sexuality. This whole assault on marriage is really an attempt to obliterate not only morality but Judeo-Christian morality, to obliterate marriage and to even obliterate the idea that there even is a God."

These are the kind of blanket generalizations, ridiculous statements and yeah - viciousness - that comes from Liberty University. People trying to live their lives in peace and equality are really trying to "obliterate the idea that there even is a God". We want to "obliterate morality". And this was a mild example of his rhetoric. It's usually much worse.

Ask yourself why so many people object to Liberty specifically, and not other religious-affiliated schools. There is a reason for it. And like cult members who can't see beyond the boundaries of their cult, many people who go to that school and are involved in that school can't see it either.

There will be a time - perhaps 20 years, 30 years, who knows? - when society looks back on this era in disgust and amazement at some of the intolerance and ridiculous, hysterical anti-gay nonsense the same way we look back on now on the segregationists of the 60s. This is the civil rights issue of our time, and Liberty University has planted themselves firmly on the wrong side of history. If I were involved at a member institution of any Sun Belt school, I would be making it very clear that I would not want to be associated in any way, shape or form with an institution that stands for vilifying and doing everything in its power to harm its fellow American citizens who happen to be gay. They are a disgrace.

So in a nutshell, unpopular speech on the part of a representative of a university should be disqualifying in terms of that university's athletic affiliations.

I don't agree with the viewpoint, but I also disagree with the idea that access to FBS conference affiliation should be denied on the basis of the free expression of an (albeit unpopular) opinion.

[ElCid]

I know a bit of how Liberty University handles its business as well. "Vicious" is an apt description for the attitudes and behavior in particular of Mat Staver, Dean of the Liberty University Law School and founder of their associated legal/political wing Liberty Counsel. There is nobody in America who has done more to try and vilify, harm and denigrate his fellow Americans who happen to be gay. If you're not familiar with his work, I suggest you look into it a bit. With attitudes among Americans rapidly changing (a recent poll has approval for gay marriage at 58% nationally), politicians (even many republicans) falling over themselves to support gay rights, the Supreme Court likely (according to most legal analysts) to strike down DOMA, and overwhelming - almost universal - support for gay rights and marriage among the young, Liberty will only become more notable for their pernicious anti-gay rhetoric and bigotry. It's surprising to me that more people aren't aware of the activities of Mat Staver and the Liberty Counsel, and some of the things they've been involved in. Remember when Jerry Falwell blamed the gays for 9/11? That attitude hasn't changed. Some say Liberty has made progress and that old previous "stupid" statements were said, but things are different now... and yet Mat Staver still has free reign. They haven't changed, nor will they.


Take it to the politics board, nobody wants to hear it here. And probably nobody wants to hear it there either.

[AppAlum2003]

So in a nutshell, unpopular speech on the part of a representative of a university should be disqualifying in terms of that university's athletic affiliations.

I don't agree with the viewpoint, but I also disagree with the idea that access to FBS conference affiliation should be denied on the basis of the free expression of an (albeit unpopular) opinion.

I don't necessarily agree anyone should be DENIED based on their behaviors/beliefs, but when you act like an asshole and no one invites you to their party, don't be surprised.

[bandit]

Take it to the politics board, nobody wants to hear it here. And probably nobody wants to hear it there either.

[shrug] Don't read it.

[bandit]

I don't necessarily agree anyone should be DENIED based on their behaviors/beliefs, but when you act like an asshole and no one invites you to their party, don't be surprised.


Exactly right.

[ElCid]

[shrug] Don't read it.

How about don't post it. You just look foolish and immature.

[bandit]

How about don't post it. You just look foolish and immature.

Haha! Now i'm going to lose sleep tonight because someone from The Citadel thinks I look foolish and immature.

Well I guess you guys know about that.

In 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court declared the school's male-only admissions policy unconstitutional, and the South Carolina woman was allowed to enroll. But she didn't stay very long.

Faulkner faced harassment and death threats. She had to be protected by federal marshals, and wore a panic alarm around her neck. Her dorm room was equipped with security cameras.


Very noble, indeed.

[CID1990]

Haha! Now i'm going to lose sleep tonight because someone from The Citadel thinks I look foolish and immature.

Well I guess you guys know about that.

In 1995, the U.S. Supreme Court declared the school's male-only admissions policy unconstitutional, and the South Carolina woman was allowed to enroll. But she didn't stay very long.

Faulkner faced harassment and death threats. She had to be protected by federal marshals, and wore a panic alarm around her neck. Her dorm room was equipped with security cameras.


Very noble, indeed.

You're angry about everything, aren't you?

[bandit]

You're angry about everything, aren't you?


Not at all. I'm very happy about the future of this country. And even places that try to cling as desperately as possible to the past - like Liberty University and The Citadel - will get dragged kicking and screaming into that future... eventually. It will be great watching it happen.

[CID1990]

Not at all. I'm very happy about the future of this country. And even places that try to cling as desperately as possible to the past - like Liberty University and The Citadel - will get dragged kicking and screaming into that future... eventually. It will be great watching it happen.

Obviously your anger controls you. Your drama explosion on this board confirms it.

[ElCid]

Not at all. I'm very happy about the future of this country. And even places that try to cling as desperately as possible to the past - like Liberty University and The Citadel - will get dragged kicking and screaming into that future... eventually. It will be great watching it happen.

I think we can agree you are the type of person who I would definitely not allow to have a weapon. Serious anger issues. You could snap you know. Therapy may be in order. I would look into it if I were you. Although you may believe it is veiled in some self-righteous crusade, your hate shines through for everyone to see, and pity.

[CID1990]

I don't necessarily agree anyone should be DENIED based on their behaviors/beliefs, but when you act like an asshole and no one invites you to their party, don't be surprised.

I don't have a problem with that.

The other schools might not invite Liberty for precisely that reason, but I am not seeing the medieval repression coming out of Liberty that others allege. I just see them being Bible thumpers, and there is a difference.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[ElCid]

I don't have a problem with that.

The other schools might not invite Liberty for precisely that reason, but I am not seeing the medieval repression coming out of Liberty that others allege. I just see them being Bible thumpers, and there is a difference.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Thats right. The wacky spectrum will always demonize people of faith because they can't control them. So anyone with an axe to grind in regard to who is getting an invite up can simple play or spread the intolerant religious card to cut in line or deny them. Nothing but political garbage dressed up to appear righteous. Sad really.

[superman7515]

http://www.vuhoops.com/2013/4/3/4179616/expansion-apocalypse-caa-exhales-as-sun-belt-focus-shifts


Liberty athletic director Jeff Barber confirmed that his school has been in contact with the Sun Belt last night.

"It's just the continual changing of the landscape with Tulsa leaving Conference USA to go to the [soon to be renamed] Big East and Western Kentucky left the Sun Belt to go into Conference USA, so it opened up another spot," Barber told the News & Advance. "We're one of those being considered."

During last Spring's commencement address, Jerry Falwell Jr. told the amassed crowd that Liberty was "FBS ready" and would look to make the jump to the Bowl subdivision. The move is driven by the desire to become a national university and expand beyond their current regional reputation.

Sam Houston State could also be in the mix if Liberty falls through.

Conferences like the Sun Belt and MAC are a traditional starting point for schools looking to upgrade. So, if the SBC fills their opening, upgrade opportunities may not come around again unless further conference changes cause them to lose more teams.

JMU's upgrade possibilities may not be over, however, and while additional conference shifting at the top could create a few more openings in FBS leagues. In addition, the MAC conference is still holding steady at just 13 football members. The MAC has the option to eliminate UMass from their league after two seasons, however, and could choose not to add another team to even out their two divisions.

If they did add another school, JMU might be able to argue for inclusion, though that league's thought process isn't well known at this time. One report has claimed that the MAC could instead opt to add an existing FBS program, specifically Arkansas State.

[jmufan999]

IF JMU is the top choice for the Sun Belt, as has been rumored (but in no way am I proclaiming it as fact), then it makes sense for the Sun Belt to mention these two schools are options, not mentioning other schools. Why? Because they hope JMU would be afraid of another in-state school going FBS. "Hey JMU, if you don't go, we're taking Liberty." When in reality, it's possible they're just using Liberty for leverage. It would be a smart move. Perhaps Liberty isn't even #2 on their list. They're saying JMU and Liberty are options, but they're not saying those are the options in order.

I haven't read that JMU is the #1 target, and Liberty is a guaranteed shoe-in if JMU declines. If there has been such an article, I haven't seen it yet. But a leverage move like that would definitely make sense for the Sun Belt.

The bottom line is this: IF (again, a big if) JMU is the Sun Belt's top target, do you really think they're going to say: "JMU, we like you, but we can't wait until September (when the FBS study will be completed, probably earlier than this). We're going to take our #2 choice". What's the difference in waiting a few months? They know JMU isn't going anywhere for at least the next few months, so why not wait?

[smallcollegefbfan]

The Post Office is one of the most efficient government agencies around. They deliver a birthday card to any address in America in just 2-4 days. They are only in the red because Congress has them funding a retirement plan for employees who aren't even born yet.
http://union-bulletin.com/news/2013/mar/27/congress-puts-postal-service-tough-spot/

BTW, do you expect the Army or Navy to make money? What about the Supreme Court or Congress? All of these entities are specifically named in the Consitution.

Maybe where you live it is but where I am there are always problems with late delivery, not a huge problem but happens probably 1 in 10 times I mailed something, there are long lines, and cost of everything keeps going up. UPS has not risen their prices on me lately and there are never lines and they do a better job of service by far.

They are trying to take away Saturday mail and that is something else that is a pain. I don't deal with them anymore and prefer to go with UPS or Fedex. Why doesn't the government get rid of the USPS and encourage people to use UPS and Fedex and then take that money and use it to help pay off our debt or put that money in SS?

Of course we should have a Supreme court, Army, Navy, Air Force, etc. I'm 100% in favor of the constitution. I think our founders were smarter than people realize. I want the government to protect this country, have a Supreme Court, and maintain our roads.

Our government needs to fund what they can afford and stop trying to fund things they can't really afford. They handle money like a teenage girl sometimes, well most of the time. If they weren't bad with money I would be all for them handling it more but they haven't been in the past.

[smallcollegefbfan]

IF JMU is the top choice for the Sun Belt, as has been rumored (but in no way am I proclaiming it as fact), then it makes sense for the Sun Belt to mention these two schools are options, not mentioning other schools. Why? Because they hope JMU would be afraid of another in-state school going FBS. "Hey JMU, if you don't go, we're taking Liberty." When in reality, it's possible they're just using Liberty for leverage. It would be a smart move. Perhaps Liberty isn't even #2 on their list. They're saying JMU and Liberty are options, but they're not saying those are the options in order.

I haven't read that JMU is the #1 target, and Liberty is a guaranteed shoe-in if JMU declines. If there has been such an article, I haven't seen it yet. But a leverage move like that would definitely make sense for the Sun Belt.

The bottom line is this: IF (again, a big if) JMU is the Sun Belt's top target, do you really think they're going to say: "JMU, we like you, but we can't wait until September (when the FBS study will be completed, probably earlier than this). We're going to take our #2 choice". What's the difference in waiting a few months? They know JMU isn't going anywhere for at least the next few months, so why not wait?

I agree and I definitely think JMU will eventually end up bolting. Just give it time. SBC may end up going to 14 teams and then would need more than just JMU. I hope they offer both JMU and Liberty. It would be a great footprint for the league to be strong in VA, a great recruiting state, and two programs with great facilities.

[jmufan999]

I hope they offer both JMU and Liberty.

Same here. We've never had a true rival. Ask 5 different JMU fans and they'll list 5 different teams as our "rival". I'd love for our rival to be App State, but they're always going to see GSU as a bigger rival than JMU. An in-state matchup with Liberty would be great. To me, it's only a TRUE rivalry if both teams unanimously agree that the other is their rival, a la Montana/Montana State.

[UAalum72]

I'm 100% in favor of the constitution. I think our founders were smarter than people realize. I want the government to protect this country, have a Supreme Court, and maintain our roads.Then you should be happy.

United States Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 7
(Congress shall have the power) To establish Post Offices and Post Roads.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

IF JMU is the top choice for the Sun Belt, as has been rumored (but in no way am I proclaiming it as fact), then it makes sense for the Sun Belt to mention these two schools are options, not mentioning other schools. Why? Because they hope JMU would be afraid of another in-state school going FBS. "Hey JMU, if you don't go, we're taking Liberty." When in reality, it's possible they're just using Liberty for leverage. It would be a smart move. Perhaps Liberty isn't even #2 on their list. They're saying JMU and Liberty are options, but they're not saying those are the options in order.

I haven't read that JMU is the #1 target, and Liberty is a guaranteed shoe-in if JMU declines. If there has been such an article, I haven't seen it yet. But a leverage move like that would definitely make sense for the Sun Belt.

The bottom line is this: IF (again, a big if) JMU is the Sun Belt's top target, do you really think they're going to say: "JMU, we like you, but we can't wait until September (when the FBS study will be completed, probably earlier than this). We're going to take our #2 choice". What's the difference in waiting a few months? They know JMU isn't going anywhere for at least the next few months, so why not wait?

Fascinating stuff that has the ring of truth to it. It also says an awful lot about the Sun Belt that rather than being a destination in its own right that it feels the need to "pressure" schools into making quick decisions. You'd never hear about the B1G or SEC "pressuring" schools to join their ranks.

[ASUMountaineer]

Fascinating stuff that has the ring of truth to it. It also says an awful lot about the Sun Belt that rather than being a destination in its own right that it feels the need to "pressure" schools into making quick decisions. You'd never hear about the B1G or SEC "pressuring" schools to join their ranks.

Has anyone every compared the SBC to the B1G or SEC? With that said, the B1G may have to "pressure" UNC if they really want the Tar Heels.

[ASUMountaineer]

IF JMU is the top choice for the Sun Belt, as has been rumored (but in no way am I proclaiming it as fact), then it makes sense for the Sun Belt to mention these two schools are options, not mentioning other schools. Why? Because they hope JMU would be afraid of another in-state school going FBS. "Hey JMU, if you don't go, we're taking Liberty." When in reality, it's possible they're just using Liberty for leverage. It would be a smart move. Perhaps Liberty isn't even #2 on their list. They're saying JMU and Liberty are options, but they're not saying those are the options in order.

I haven't read that JMU is the #1 target, and Liberty is a guaranteed shoe-in if JMU declines. If there has been such an article, I haven't seen it yet. But a leverage move like that would definitely make sense for the Sun Belt.

The bottom line is this: IF (again, a big if) JMU is the Sun Belt's top target, do you really think they're going to say: "JMU, we like you, but we can't wait until September (when the FBS study will be completed, probably earlier than this). We're going to take our #2 choice". What's the difference in waiting a few months? They know JMU isn't going anywhere for at least the next few months, so why not wait?

Yes. I suppose the reason that the SBC would not want to wait until September is because they want a conference championship game in 2014, and to do that they need a 12th football member by July 1st, 2014. JMU waiting until September means that they will not be in their second year of transition until 2015. So, there is a difference in waiting a few months.

[Apps03]

Fascinating stuff that has the ring of truth to it. It also says an awful lot about the Sun Belt that rather than being a destination in its own right that it feels the need to "pressure" schools into making quick decisions. You'd never hear about the B1G or SEC "pressuring" schools to join their ranks.

Did I miss where the sunbelt actually said that? His entire post is a hypothetical. Once again, your haste to disparage anything FBS related is clouding your judgement.

[jmufan999]

Yes. I suppose the reason that the SBC would not want to wait until September is because they want a conference championship game in 2014, and to do that they need a 12th football member by July 1st, 2014. JMU waiting until September means that they will not be in their second year of transition until 2015. So, there is a difference in waiting a few months.

Oh, I didn't know that. Then you're right, a few months definitely makes a difference. I don't think it's going to happen for JMU, according to our beat writers, who seem certain about it.

[ngineer]

Looks like JMU or LU right now, but who knows right now. Just don't trust any of these rumors right now.


I don't see Lehigh being interested in such a move........(;-)

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Did I miss where the sunbelt actually said that? His entire post is a hypothetical. Once again, your haste to disparage anything FBS related is clouding your judgement.

Quite the stretch as far as I can tell also cuz no one but jmufan said that I can see and he made it clear was just him spitballin'.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Quite the stretch as far as I can tell also cuz no one but jmufan said that I can see and he made it clear was just him spitballin'.

You're telling me that Benson putting pressure on JMU by wooing Liberty in the media isn't a plausible scenario? It fits his MO nicely to me, especially from his days in the WAC. Of all people, Ursus, you should remember how he "put pressure" on Montana to join up there.

[MplsBison]

Anyone else get a chuckle imagining Benson kicking LFN's dog?

[IBleedYellow]

Anyone else get a chuckle imagining Benson kicking LFN's dog?

Thank you for this quality posting to help out the conversation. Enjoy the ignore list again.


I personally hope that JMU and Liberty stay around. I feel like the App State and GSU fans are really hoping that they do come though, I understand that you want to build up your conference, but maybe other schools don't see it as an upgrade as much as your administrations do.

[Saint3333]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

[walliver]

Yes. I suppose the reason that the SBC would not want to wait until September is because they want a conference championship game in 2014, and to do that they need a 12th football member by July 1st, 2014. JMU waiting until September means that they will not be in their second year of transition until 2015. So, there is a difference in waiting a few months.

This rush is what bothers me most about realignment. It always seems rushed. JMU needs to do what is right for JMU. Maybe it's the SunBelt, maybe is the MAC or C-USA, maybe it's the CAA (and if they had sense they would join the SoCon:D) But now they are being rushed to make a decision. We all know that the SBC was not App's first choice, but App had a year to think about things when C-USA told them "no". JMU is in the same type dilemma Lousiana Tech faced last year when forced to make a decision about an invitation to a bottom-of-the-heap bowl - LaTech chose to wait for a better offer and ended up with no date for the prom.

Also, I don't understand why the FBS study won't be back until September. These consultant always give the answer they are paid to give, and could probably just take the ASU study and change a few details.

[Twentysix]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

Hopefully yes, judging by last time, no.

[IBleedYellow]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

From how Gene Taylor has stated in the past 2 months: No.

Would probably be naive to think he wouldn't want to state Yes, though. I think there are enough Teammakers that do not want to go up to FBS.

[Go Bison]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

I think this all would depend on what happens to the Summit League. Word is Oakland is leaving for the Horizon League. If the Summit League blows up it might force NDSU to move to a conference that supports both football and other sports. Right now it doesn't look like either the Missouri Valley or Horizon wants NDSU for their other sports. Stay tuned.

[jmufan999]

This rush is what bothers me most about realignment. It always seems rushed. JMU needs to do what is right for JMU. Maybe it's the SunBelt, maybe is the MAC or C-USA, maybe it's the CAA (and if they had sense they would join the SoCon:D) But now they are being rushed to make a decision. We all know that the SBC was not App's first choice, but App had a year to think about things when C-USA told them "no". JMU is in the same type dilemma Lousiana Tech faced last year when forced to make a decision about an invitation to a bottom-of-the-heap bowl - LaTech chose to wait for a better offer and ended up with no date for the prom.

Also, I don't understand why the FBS study won't be back until September. These consultant always give the answer they are paid to give, and could probably just take the ASU study and change a few details.

Agreed on all levels. But it gets hard constantly arguing with other JMU fans, which is why I come here. I can see pros and cons of FBS, but more cons than pros. Just gets exhausting with the arguing.

[IBleedYellow]

I think this all would depend on what happens to the Summit League. Word is Oakland is leaving for the Horizon League. If the Summit League blows up it might force NDSU to move to a conference that supports both football and other sports. Right now it doesn't look like either the Missouri Valley or Horizon wants NDSU for their other sports. Stay tuned.

Honestly, I don't see us leaving the MVFC. We are a football school and I believe the MVFC is the strongest and best fit for NDSU.

Nexus 4

[clenz]

Honestly, I don't see us leaving the MVFC. We are a football school and I believe the MVFC is the strongest and best fit for NDSU.

Nexus 4
Wait until the MVFC blows up because YSU finally leaves to the CAA/FBS

The MVC pisses UNI/IlSU/MSU (most likely to move FBS in the MVC) and the three of us find a new home...


I could easily see that happening.

[FargoBison]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

Who knows. Our AD has said he is concerned about the FCS and our media guys say the school has talked about moving to the FBS internally. If they offered for all-sports though NDSU would say yes in a second...right now the school's non-football league is facing a lot of uncertainty.

He could sell the doubting boosters on the move in one second if need be. Bison fans can say what they want but outside of the national title games, our games vs FBS teams have attracted the most interest. It already appears that MN won't play us anymore and neither will Wisconsin, that would change if we went FBS.

[Saint3333]

Many fans on here don't share those concerns, but those concerns are very real to many university leaders of FCS programs. It was certainly a factor in App's decision making process.

[ASUMountaineer]

This rush is what bothers me most about realignment. It always seems rushed. JMU needs to do what is right for JMU. Maybe it's the SunBelt, maybe is the MAC or C-USA, maybe it's the CAA (and if they had sense they would join the SoCon:D) But now they are being rushed to make a decision. We all know that the SBC was not App's first choice, but App had a year to think about things when C-USA told them "no". JMU is in the same type dilemma Lousiana Tech faced last year when forced to make a decision about an invitation to a bottom-of-the-heap bowl - LaTech chose to wait for a better offer and ended up with no date for the prom.

Also, I don't understand why the FBS study won't be back until September. These consultant always give the answer they are paid to give, and could probably just take the ASU study and change a few details.

I agree with you. Unfortunately for JMU, this is the situation they are in. I'm amazed, given the improvements to facilities they have made, that they are just now doing a study. It seems like they were late to the party. The thing that I agree with this most is that they have to do what is best for JMU. App State made the decision, much to LFN's chagrin, that the admin believed was best for the school.

[Bisonator]

If the MAC asked NDSU to join tomorrow what would be their response?

I believe Gene would have to say yes. With the uncertainty surrounding the FCS and the Summit he would be a fool not to accept an invite from a stable conference for the entire athletic program. He has stated many times that NDSU will not be left behind again. With that said I don't see an invite in the near future.

[darell1976]

Who knows. Our AD has said he is concerned about the FCS and our media guys say the school has talked about moving to the FBS internally. If they offered for all-sports though NDSU would say yes in a second...right now the school's non-football league is facing a lot of uncertainty.

He could sell the doubting boosters on the move in one second if need be. Bison fans can say what they want but outside of the national title games, our games vs FBS teams have attracted the most interest. It already appears that MN won't play us anymore and neither will Wisconsin, that would change if we went FBS.

But that would be a one way street. No way they would leave TCF or Camp Randal to play in the 19,000 Fargodome. NDSU would be like the new Idaho with second rate teams coming to town. Don't expect Nebraska, Iowa, or Alabama to come up to Fargo if you went FBS. You would get the Fresno State, Bowling Green and Idaho.

[IBleedYellow]

But that would be a one way street. No way they would leave TCF or Camp Randal to play in the 19,000 Fargodome. NDSU would be like the new Idaho with second rate teams coming to town. Don't expect Nebraska, Iowa, or Alabama to come up to Fargo if you went FBS. You would get the Fresno State, Bowling Green and Idaho.

If you win, they will come. That's all I'll say.

Nexus 4

[AmsterBison]

Wait until the MVFC blows up because YSU finally leaves to the CAA/FBS

The MVC pisses UNI/IlSU/MSU (most likely to move FBS in the MVC) and the three of us find a new home...
I could easily see that happening.

I don't see Youngstown State leaving killing the MVFC. The MVC might kill the MVFC via collateral damage from raiding the Horizon though. Suppose the Horizon raids the Summit and doesn't take all the football schools, then the remainders of those four schools (USD, SDSU, NDSU, Western Illinois) will all be looking for new homes and would obviously prefer all-sports conferences.

[CID1990]

If you win, they will come. That's all I'll say.

Nexus 4

Actually that is even more of a disincentive. Wisky isn't going want to lose in Fargo, much less play there. The big boys have a habit of trying to avoid being embarrassed.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[MplsBison]

I believe Gene would have to say yes. With the uncertainty surrounding the FCS and the Summit he would be a fool not to accept an invite from a stable conference for the entire athletic program. He has stated many times that NDSU will not be left behind again. With that said I don't see an invite in the near future.

If the MAC legitimately offered an all-sports membership and Gene turned it down without a guarantee in hand from the Horizon or MVC - he should be fired on the spot.

On the spot. That's why I agree with you, he's not crazy - he's a very intelligent man and he would do what's right.

[MplsBison]

But that would be a one way street. No way they would leave TCF or Camp Randal to play in the 19,000 Fargodome. NDSU would be like the new Idaho with second rate teams coming to town. Don't expect Nebraska, Iowa, or Alabama to come up to Fargo if you went FBS. You would get the Fresno State, Bowling Green and Idaho.

Big Ten had a deal with the MAC for 2-for-1's. I'm pretty sure it's expired now, but Minnesota has most definitely played at MAC schools in the past 5-10 years. I could look it up...but so could you.

So if NDSU was in the MAC, it would very easily be possible to get the Gophers in Fargo -- though most likely not probably as they'd kick, fight and scream bloody murder to prevent it from happening.


Funny (or sad) thing is: I guarantee you 50-75% of Gopher alumni would see Minnesota going to Fargo in football and say something like "It's about time they played at North Dakota for football...they've been playing there in hockey all these years..."

[darell1976]

If you win, they will come. That's all I'll say.

Nexus 4

Not necessarily, just look at Boise State. 2009 they played Oregon, and 2010 they played Oregon State on the smurf turf, but no USC, no Nebraska, no Washington. Unless its a home and home, I don't see the Badgers coming to Fargo for a one and done.

[SU_IT_able]

My biggest issue with Liberty is not their religious affiliations. They are a private institution and are allowed to believe what they believe.

My biggest problem with Liberty is that they're doing it the wrong way. The place is a freakin' diploma mill. They accept anyone and everyone as long as they have the $$$ to pay. On top of that, they have what? 40,000 "online students"... some "university".

For those who oppose Liberty on academic grounds and think Jacksonville State would be a better choice, I suggest you Google 'Jacksonville State University Football APR' and 'Jacksonville State University Basketball APR'.

I don't have a dog in this fight and I don't know if academics are really a concern for the SBC. However, as a resident of Alabama, I am aware of JSU's academic issues and thought in the interest of fairness that it should be mentioned here.

[darell1976]

Big Ten had a deal with the MAC for 2-for-1's. I'm pretty sure it's expired now, but Minnesota has most definitely played at MAC schools in the past 5-10 years. I could look it up...but so could you.

So if NDSU was in the MAC, it would very easily be possible to get the Gophers in Fargo -- though most likely not probably as they'd kick, fight and scream bloody murder to prevent it from happening.


Funny (or sad) thing is: I guarantee you 50-75% of Gopher alumni would see Minnesota going to Fargo in football and say something like "It's about time they played at North Dakota for football...they've been playing there in hockey all these years..."

Then that would be the reason to see Michigan or Wisconsin leave their huge stadiums for the little Fargodome.

[Bisonator]

I would consider Minnesota a home game for NDSU! :D

[IBleedYellow]

I would consider Minnesota a home game for NDSU! :D

Most of us consider it our third home, right after Frisco.

[Laker]

Minnesota has most definitely played at MAC schools in the past 5-10 years. I could look it up...but so could you.

I know that the Gophers played at Ohio, and I'm thinking Toledo. But it was at least two MAC schools that they played on the road.

[FargoBison]

NDSU could play Wisconsin in Minneapolis on a neutral field.....could do the same thing with the Gophers. I wouldn't rule out NDSU getting a school like Iowa State or Kansas State into Fargo.

[darell1976]

NDSU could play Wisconsin in Minneapolis on a neutral field.....could do the same thing with the Gophers. I wouldn't rule out NDSU getting a school like Iowa State or Kansas State into Fargo.

If NDSU beats K-State in 5 months...I don't think K-State would want to come to Fargo.:D

[MplsBison]

NDSU could play Wisconsin in Minneapolis on a neutral field.....could do the same thing with the Gophers. I wouldn't rule out NDSU getting a school like Iowa State or Kansas State into Fargo.

Ruesse (StarTrib columnist) even floated the idea of having a yearly series in Mpls with NDSU. One year would be Gophers home in TCF, the other year would be Bison "home" in the new Vikings stadium.

As if the Gophers would ever agree to something like that. Ha!


But a one time deal like that, with an Iowa, Iowa St or Wisconsin, Nebraska....hell yes!


Iowa just did that, in fact, playing NIU in the Bears stadium. I imagine Chicago and Mpls are their two largest out of state alumni bases.

[superman7515]

JMUSportsBlog.com (http://jmusportsblog.com/?p=5420)


After a very satisfying chat with AD Jeff Bourne at last week’s DC/Nova Coaches Caravan.... a) the admin is in touch with all of the potential conference destinations on a daily basis; b) full study from the consultants isn’t due till September, but the admin expects to have something they can work with in June; c) JMU realizes that the balance of where it’s “peer institutions” reside athletically has shifted; and d) the athletics administration now has an active voice in the overall University’s larger long-term plan, at least in part due to the support of President Alger.

[bluehenbillk]

JMU will be next to leave. Read letter C above - that's all you need to know.

[clenz]

Ruesse (StarTrib columnist) even floated the idea of having a yearly series in Mpls with NDSU. One year would be Gophers home in TCF, the other year would be Bison "home" in the new Vikings stadium.

As if the Gophers would ever agree to something like that. Ha!


But a one time deal like that, with an Iowa, Iowa St or Wisconsin, Nebraska....hell yes!


Iowa just did that, in fact, playing NIU in the Bears stadium. I imagine Chicago and Mpls are their two largest out of state alumni bases.
Iowa did not play NIU in a one off in the state of Illinois

[Sader87]

You don't build a facility like JMU has with thoughts on remaining FCS.

Interesting to see what the next "domino to fall" in the CAA is once JMU leaves.

[Franks Tanks]

Iowa did not play NIU in a one off in the state of Illinois

I assume he means they will be playing.

[Slammer50111]

I assume he means they will be playing.

Iowa played NIU at the Soldier Field as part of 2 for 1 I think. The game at Soldier Field was NIU home game they are playing Iowa in Iowa City this year.

[PAllen]

Iowa played NIU at the Soldier Field as part of 2 for 1 I think. The game at Soldier Field was NIU home game they are playing Iowa in Iowa City this year.

So, get invited to a BCS bowl and you might get a weaker BIG 10 team to come to your place as part of a 2 for 1. I guess if that's what you want to strive for, then OK. Then again, Penn State's not coming to Goodman anytime in the next 40 years.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So, get invited to a BCS bowl and you might get a weaker BIG 10 team to come to your place as part of a 2 for 1. I guess if that's what you want to strive for, then OK. Then again, Penn State's not coming to Goodman anytime in the next 40 years.

If by "your place" you mean paying to rent an NFL stadium. Not saying it's bad, but it's not the same as coming to DeKalb either.

[PAllen]

If by "your place" you mean paying to rent an NFL stadium. Not saying it's bad, but it's not the same as coming to DeKalb either.

I did say "might".:D

[Redbirdz]

My guess is Jacksonville State to the Sunbelt.