SoCon To Sunbelt The Right Move For App State Football?

[Appaholic]

Being the nation’s most successful Football Championship Subdivision (I-AA) program over the past 10 years wasn’t enough for the decision-makers at Appalachian State, who announced the athletics program is leaving the Southern Conference to join the Sun Belt Conference, which plays at the Football Bowl Subdivision (IA) level.

As soon as it was accepted, ASU became No. 1 in attendance in the Sun Belt among schools that currently play football in that league. Averaging 27,964 per game in 2012 - good enough to lead all FCS schools for a sixth straight year - is impressive at that level.

Joining a D-I league in which no schools average that many isn’t impressive, and doesn’t sound like a step up.

It’s a bold move for a university looking to be more than a big fish in a small pond, but the Mountaineers could be bottom feeders in a lower-tier FBS conference that bears no resemblance to the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12 or the ACC.

Remember when Marshall left the SoCon in the mid-1990s? Five Mid-American Conference titles in seven years followed, but the past eight years seldom has been heard from the Thundering Herd, 39-57 since 2005.

Best case scenario for ASU before Wednesday was playing for conference and national titles - best case scenario three seasons away includes a league title and getting to a bowl you’ve never heard of.

Bigger is not always better and stepping up is not always moving forward, lessons ASU football may learn the hard way.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130329/COLUMNISTS12/303290009/SoCon-Sun-Belt-right-move-ASU-

[WestCoastAggie]

How is the academic profile of the schools in the Sun Belt and how does App State match up to those profiles?

[Saint3333]

In 1974 people said the same thing about App moving from D2 to D1, that turned out alright.

[Apphole]

What a poor excuse for objective journalism.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Western Kentucky will almost certainly not be around long enough to be a rivalry game for App.

Also, it's worth noting that the article actually understates the role of student fees and institutional support for the Sun Belt.

This link is a year old, but it gives you the idea.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/story/2012-05-14/ncaa-college-athletics-finances-database/54955804/1

Florida International Sun Belt $23,849,954 $24,606,141 $19,156,076 80.3%
Middle Tennessee State Sun Belt $27,125,185 $24,328,234 $18,349,289 67.6%
Western Kentucky Sun Belt $22,269,484 $22,269,484 $14,096,615 63.3%
North Texas Sun Belt $11,259,222 $18,935,422 $5,051,120 44.9%
Florida Atlantic Sun Belt $19,438,422 $16,707,200 $13,001,125 66.9%
South Alabama Sun Belt $17,432,045 $16,580,198 $13,988,350 80.2%
Troy Sun Belt $15,246,720 $15,246,720 $8,077,632 53.0%
Louisiana-Lafayette Sun Belt $13,556,901 $13,946,204 $5,827,446 43.0%
Arkansas State Sun Belt $13,374,507 $13,374,507 $7,770,368 58.1%
Louisiana-Monroe Sun Belt $11,661,727 $10,164,038 $5,744,780 49.3%
Arkansas-Little Rock Sun Belt $9,304,137 $8,880,331 $5,986,939 64.3%


In comparison, in the SoCon:

Appalachian State Southern $17,748,605 $15,454,170 $8,886,750 50.1%

It seems predestined that the % of institutional support will increase, though probably not up to the FAU/FIU levels of 80%. Will it be done by increasing student fees? Well, it will have to come from somewhere.

[Saint3333]

Nothing is predestined. It may or the additional revenues not available in the SoCon and additional support from donor may drive the percentage down.

I'm glad our leaders didn't listen to the naysayers when we became an academy, then a college, then a university. We've heard this line about a little school in the mountains not being able to accomplish anything more for over 100 years. Appalachian State University - proving progress is possible since 1899.

[EmeryZach]

Just wait until your anthropology and history department see the amount of money it's going to cost. I hope they don't turn on you like the UMass faculty did.

Our faculty at UMass, for the most part, despise football and our move to the FBS. But they have no real say in what happens, so screw them.

I'm glad you guys are making the jump. I'd love it if UMass scheduled you guys for a home and home series.

Good luck, and start donating quickly.

[AppAlum2003]

Can part of the move also include getting rid of Keith Jarrett?

[Appaholic]

Yeah, but he needs to stay in journalism if for no other reason he can keep busting the WCU admin's chops...xlolx

[AppAlum2003]

Look, I'll keep this short and simple (insert Grizo joke here)...

If you never try to do something great, you'll never accomplish anything great. Could this be a tremendous flop and could we start losing 6 - 7 games a year? Sure. Not likely, but anything is possible.

I've never worked in Sales, but I've always had a firm understanding of the most basic and crucial concept: 100% of the calls you don't make are a "No". I try to take this same stance in my personal and professional life and I'm glad my university has the same mindset.

[Apphole]

Here's my favorite part:

As soon as it was accepted, ASU became No. 1 in attendance in the Sun Belt among schools that currently play football in that league. Averaging 27,964 per game in 2012 - good enough to lead all FCS schools for a sixth straight year - is impressive at that level.

Joining a D-I league in which no schools average that many isn’t impressive, and doesn’t sound like a step up.

He's saying that since App draws the biggest crowd in the SBC already, that it isn't a step up. He's applying selective logic to support his agenda. Either assess attendance relative to conference peers in both leagues or don't. He's basically asserting that the SoCon's attendance average is the same as App's. Moron.

I think his motivation revolves around the "App State should know their place" mantra to which a small handful of App "fans" are still adhering and he is using some questionable logic/journalism to try and articulate it. Overall, this piece reeks of bias and selective logic. Op Ed pieces have no place on the sports section. Leave that schtick for the bloggers.

I'm honestly surprised this saw print.

[Appaholic]

Look, I'll keep this short and simple (insert Grizo joke here)...

If you never try to do something great, you'll never accomplish anything great. Could this be a tremendous flop and could we start losing 6 - 7 games a year? Sure. Not likely, but anything is possible.

I've never worked in Sales, but I've always had a firm understanding of the most basic and crucial concept: 100% of the calls you don't make are a "No". I try to take this same stance in my personal and professional life and I'm glad my university has the same mindset.

Have to agree. As much as I love SoCon and will miss FCS, I'm not going to be a disgruntled fan regarding SunBelt. Let's hope for the best!

[mountaineer in Cane Land]

I believe this is the same guy who wrote that "pultizer award winning article" about how App screwed over Moore when they forced him out, nothing to see here, just some beat reporter, working for a small time newspaper, trying to make a name for himself.

[IBleedYellow]

With great risk comes great reward.

Nexus 4

[bobbythekidd]

Look, I'll keep this short and simple (insert Grizo joke here)...
Instant classic.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Show me a program that has had buyer's remorse and moved back down to FCS.
Show me a program whose attendance was better when they were FCS/I-AA than when they were FBS/I-A.

GSU and App. State are easily the most consistently successful FCS teams to make the jump and the only one that compares is Marshall. If it isn't a complete disaster for weaker programs why would it be for us?

[asumike83]

Talk about completely contradictory logic. In one breath, Keith states that it is not a step up. In the next breath, he says Appalachian could be bottom-feeders in the conference. If the program were go go from dominating the SoCon to the bottom of the Sun Belt standings (which I doubt), how does that not signify a step up in competition?

Either it is not a step up or it is too big of a step to take. Pick your criticism and stick to it. Weak work from a paid journalist, reads more like a blog post than a newspaper article.

This might be my favorite part:
A new guy (Scott Satterfield) who has never been a head coach is in charge of a program that Jerry Moore made the best in the SoCon and the FCS, and Satterfield has suddenly been handed a totally different job than the one he accepted a few months ago

Just stirring the pot or is he really dumb enough to think Satterfield was not fully aware that an FBS move was in the works when he took the job?

[Mr. C]

What a poor excuse for objective journalism.

Are you so dumb as not to be able to distinguish between an opinion piece and a news story? A lot of people agree with this opinion.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This might be my favorite part:
A new guy (Scott Satterfield) who has never been a head coach is in charge of a program that Jerry Moore made the best in the SoCon and the FCS, and Satterfield has suddenly been handed a totally different job than the one he accepted a few months ago

Is he purely stirring the pot or is he really dumb enough to think Satterfield was not fully aware than an FBS move was in the works when he took the job?

Wouldn't that be a great question to actually ask him...

[Apphole]

Are you so dumb as not to be able to distinguish between an opinion piece and a news story? A lot of people agree with this opinion.

Are you so unprofessional as to wildly defend any anti-FBS App sentiment on message boards with personal insults despite your status as a professional journalist? I realize that your worst nightmare came true on Wednesday, Dave, but you need to tone it down if you want to salvage some credibility.

Opinion piece or not, it's riddled with half-truths, wild speculation and thinly veiled spin. I wouldn't defend it as well written even if I was determined to keep App State in the JV ranks.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Opinion piece or not, it's riddled with half-truths, wild speculation and thinly veiled spin. I wouldn't defend it as well written even if I was determined to keep App State in the JV ranks.

Gee, the pro Sun Belt people never, ever did that...

Sounds more to me like anyone who dares utter the phrase "the Sun Belt isn't a step up" suddenly is a liar because they don't agree with you.

[Apphole]

Gee, the pro Sun Belt people never, ever did that...

Sounds more to me like anyone who dares utter the phrase "the Sun Belt isn't a step up" suddenly is a liar because they don't agree with you.

I defy you to find a published article that tries to spin the move as an inevitable success (which is exactly the opposite of what this man is doing). The certainty of Jarrett's predictions, his inconsistent logic as applied to several things and his general abandonment of objectivity are unprecedented in any media coverage of App moving to the Sun Belt thus far. Of course it a column rather than a news piece, it's just the least compelling, most obviously biased attempt at spin I have seen in quite a while.

Like someone posted earlier: this is the same head-in-the-sand hack that wrote the story about App putting the screws to coach Moore. Reeeeeaal credible guy....

[chattownmocs]

Didn't Jerry Moore speak out about his forced resignation/termination?

[MplsBison]

Show me a program that has had buyer's remorse and moved back down to FCS.
Show me a program whose attendance was better when they were FCS/I-AA than when they were FBS/I-A.

GSU and App. State are easily the most consistently successful FCS teams to make the jump and the only one that compares is Marshall. If it isn't a complete disaster for weaker programs why would it be for us?

And keep in mind, it may not be instantaneous success...but give it some time. Perfect example, Western Kentucky.

They never would've gotten the excitement in the program and therefore the dollars to upgrade their stadium like they did without a move to FBS. And now, after a few years, they've finally got a successful program that made a bowl game.

ASU and GSU will do the same.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Show me a program that has had buyer's remorse and moved back down to FCS.
Show me a program whose attendance was better when they were FCS/I-AA than when they were FBS/I-A.

GSU and App. State are easily the most consistently successful FCS teams to make the jump and the only one that compares is Marshall. If it isn't a complete disaster for weaker programs why would it be for us?

I think the biggest adjustment will be the reduced expections. Beating a low level BCS team once every 3 or 4 years will be about as good as it gets. Going to the New Mexico Bowl will be like winning the national title.

I think what some App State and GSU fans need to realize is that you're really no closer to playing big boy football in the SBC than you were in the SoCon. The level of play really isn't going to increase.

[MplsBison]

I think the biggest adjustment will be the reduced expections. Beating a low level BCS team once every 3 or 4 years will be about as good as it gets. Going to the New Mexico Bowl will be like winning the national title.

I think what some App State and GSU fans need to realize is that you're really no closer to playing big boy football in the SBC than you were in the SoCon. The level of play really isn't going to increase.

Well, frankly, going to and winning ANY bowl game *IS* as good as winning the FCS national championship, when you consider the total spectrum of success within the realm of college football.

So that's not really an adjustment. I suppose just in the eyes of folks who can't understand why FCS and FBS aren't the same thing and who think the NCAA actually runs FBS post season just like they do for FCS.

[Saint3333]

Thanks for your version of reality lehigh fans. Here's another reality check. We are a lot closer to signing home games versus BCS conference members.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21965271/nc-state-old-dominion-agree-to-homeandhome-for-201415

Are we going to play for the crystal ball, of course not, but our regular season schedule is about to get a lot better and now we'll have the same number of scholarships which can only help. How can the level of play not get any better with an additional 22 scholarships?

Now let me run a few numbers for you guys. These amounts should be tempered by ~10% as I know there are always some kids that pick FCS programs over FBS programs.

How can the level of play at the FCS level not get worse when football has added and will add the following number of scholarship players at the FBS level from 2011-2015:

App 22
GSU 22
ODU 85
GA St. 85
USA 85
Texas St. 22
UMass 22
UNCC 85
UTSA 85

There are now 500+ more scholarships available at the FBS level (and that's not counting the full 85 for the FCS to FBS teams). That equates to an average of just under 5 scholarship players per FCS team that would be playing FCS five years ago vs. what you will see in 2015.

So even IF our level of play stays the same (+22 scholarships) it will better than it would have been had we stayed FCS.

[Skjellyfetti]

Here's my favorite part:

As soon as it was accepted, ASU became No. 1 in attendance in the Sun Belt among schools that currently play football in that league. Averaging 27,964 per game in 2012 - good enough to lead all FCS schools for a sixth straight year - is impressive at that level.

Joining a D-I league in which no schools average that many isn’t impressive, and doesn’t sound like a step up.

He's saying that since App draws the biggest crowd in the SBC already, that it isn't a step up. He's applying selective logic to support his agenda. Either assess attendance relative to conference peers in both leagues or don't. He's basically asserting that the SoCon's attendance average is the same as App's. Moron.

Exactly.

Sun Belt average attendance: 19k
SoCon average attendance (without App or Georgia Southern): 9.5k

Jarrett wants to use attendance to argue that the Sun Belt isn't a step up? xconfusedx

[CID1990]

Have to agree. As much as I love SoCon and will miss FCS, I'm not going to be a disgruntled fan regarding SunBelt. Let's hope for the best!

You're a Luddite, Holic. Admit it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Thanks for your version of reality lehigh fans. Here's another reality check. We are a lot closer to signing home games versus BCS conference members.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/21965271/nc-state-old-dominion-agree-to-homeandhome-for-201415

Are we going to play for the crystal ball, of course not, but our regular season schedule is about to get a lot better and now we'll have the same number of scholarships which can only help. How can the level of play not get any better with an additional 22 scholarships?

Now let me run a few numbers for you guys. These amounts should be tempered by ~10% as I know there are always some kids that pick FCS programs over FBS programs.

How can the level of play at the FCS level not get worse when football has added and will add the following number of scholarship players at the FBS level from 2011-2015:

App 22
GSU 22
ODU 85
GA St. 85
USA 85
Texas St. 22
UMass 22
UNCC 85
UTSA 85

There are now 500+ more scholarships available at the FBS level (and that's not counting the full 85 for the FCS to FBS teams). That equates to an average of just under 5 scholarship players per FCS team that would be playing FCS five years ago vs. what you will see in 2015.

So even IF our level of play stays the same (+22 scholarships) it will better than it would have been had we stayed FCS.

Low level FBS players have gone the FCS route for years and it's not likely to change. Most of the schools on that list are not appealing academically and/or athletically. Prospects will continue to pick the Villanova's, Delaware's, NDSU's of the world over bumbling FBS programs. Heck, even the PL pulled in a few potential FBS'ers this year. Lehigh got a kid who was headed to South Florida.

UMass and Charlotte are easily the most appealing schools on that list imo. ODU, maybe, because of it's location. The Tidewater area has tremendous potential.

[SpiritCymbal]

I've never worked in Sales, but I've always had a firm understanding of the most basic and crucial concept: 100% of the calls you don't make are a "No". I try to take this same stance in my personal and professional life and I'm glad my university has the same mindset.
Coming from someone in sales, you're 100% correct!

http://theopenend.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/michaelscott.jpg

[SpiritCymbal]

Exactly.

Sun Belt average attendance: 19k
SoCon average attendance (without App or Georgia Southern): 9.5k

Jarrett wants to use attendance to argue that the Sun Belt isn't a step up? xconfusedx

Was just thinking the same thing....I'm not sure how "19k < 9k" works. Y'all got some funny math up there in the mountains! hahahaha

[DoWe]

Low level FBS players have gone the FCS route for years and it's not likely to change. Most of the schools on that list are not appealing academically and/or athletically. Prospects will continue to pick the Villanova's, Delaware's, NDSU's of the world over bumbling FBS programs. Heck, even the PL pulled in a few potential FBS'ers this year. Lehigh got a kid who was headed to South Florida.

UMass and Charlotte are easily the most appealing schools on that list imo. ODU, maybe, because of it's location. The Tidewater area has tremendous potential.

Charlotte? xlolx

[asumike83]

I think what some App State and GSU fans need to realize is that you're really no closer to playing big boy football in the SBC than you were in the SoCon. The level of play really isn't going to increase.

Excellent! So Appalachian can expect to go 35-5 in their first five years in the Sun Belt just like they have the last five years in the SoCon?

Doubtful.

[Saint3333]

Low level FBS players have gone the FCS route for years and it's not likely to change. Most of the schools on that list are not appealing academically and/or athletically. Prospects will continue to pick the Villanova's, Delaware's, NDSU's of the world over bumbling FBS programs. Heck, even the PL pulled in a few potential FBS'ers this year. Lehigh got a kid who was headed to South Florida.

UMass and Charlotte are easily the most appealing schools on that list imo. ODU, maybe, because of it's location. The Tidewater area has tremendous potential.

Will there be some that continue to choose FCS programs, of course, I did say reduce it by 10%. You don't understand recruiting, these 17-18 year olds overwhelmingly choose FBS programs over FCS programs. Go talk to coaches at Nova and Delaware. They don't win many recruiting battles vs. the MAC.

If you were correct FCS programs would be winning more recruiting battles vs. MAC, CUSA, and Belt schools. That isn't reality.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

Are you so dumb as not to be able to distinguish between an opinion piece and a news story? A lot of people agree with this opinion.

Perhaps, but most of 'em are not App or Ga Southern fans.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

I think the biggest adjustment will be the reduced expections. Beating a low level BCS team once every 3 or 4 years will be about as good as it gets. Going to the New Mexico Bowl will be like winning the national title.

I think what some App State and GSU fans need to realize is that you're really no closer to playing big boy football in the SBC than you were in the SoCon. The level of play really isn't going to increase.

So we have a guy from a school that hands out 13 football scholarships telling fans of two of the most successful schools in 1-AA / FCS history, winners of 9 national championships and more playoff games than most conferences can show, and who regularly play top level BCS programs, what type of competition we can expect in FBS football. Am I the only one that finds that a bit odd?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

So we have a guy from a school that hands out 13 football scholarships telling fans of two of the most successful schools in 1-AA / FCS history, winners of 9 national championships and more playoff games than most conferences can show, and who regularly play top level BCS programs, what type of competition we can expect in FBS football. Am I the only one that finds that a bit odd?

Huh? I think someone who follows FCS extremely closely AND is an alum of a school that has faced the BS of big time football can add their 2 cents.

[GlassOnion]

Huh? I think someone who follows FCS extremely closely AND is an alum of a school that has faced the BS of big time football can add their 2 cents.

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night as well? xcoffeex

[PaladinFan]

Will there be some that continue to choose FCS programs, of course, I did say reduce it by 10%. You don't understand recruiting, these 17-18 year olds overwhelmingly choose FBS programs over FCS programs. Go talk to coaches at Nova and Delaware. They don't win many recruiting battles vs. the MAC.

If you were correct FCS programs would be winning more recruiting battles vs. MAC, CUSA, and Belt schools. That isn't reality.

You've said that before. It is still completely unsubstantiated.

Kids go where they feel comfortable going. Some want to stay close to home. Some care about academics. Some care about positions. Some care about depth charts. Some care about being FBS. Some don't.

[GlassOnion]

You've said that before. It is still completely unsubstantiated.

Kids go where they feel comfortable going. Some want to stay close to home. Some care about academics. Some care about positions. Some care about depth charts. Some care about being FBS. Some don't.

It would be nice if you could read the App Rivals article from today, and actually know what our coaches have run into, on this very subject. From them. I take it youve never recruited as an FCS coach?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night as well? xcoffeex

What's your point? How many people on here went to a FBS school?

[GlassOnion]

What's your point? How many people on here went to a FBS school?

Quite a few I imagine.

Ever watched a game in Boone? Statesboro? How about Sun Belt games, how many of those you been to?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Quite a few I imagine.

Ever watched a game in Boone? Statesboro? How about Sun Belt games, how many of those you been to?

Haven't been to any SBC games. But I have watched several of their teams play since they're often paired up with MAC schools in bowls.

Again what's your point?

[GlassOnion]

Haven't been to any SBC games. But I have watched several of their teams play since they're often paired up with MAC schools in bowls.

Again what's your point?

Whats yours?

You've never had anything to do with App, GSU, or the Sun Belt, and yet are miffed that nobody takes your opinion on their current and future ability to be competative seriously. Does it really surprise you?

Furthermore, you cite your attendance at Temple as a reason we should value your opinion on the matter

"Temple was forced out of the league due to poor attendance averages, non-competitiveness, and a lack of commitment to the football program from university officials."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Owls_football

Not a very sterling resume.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Whats yours?

You've never had anything to do with App, GSU, or the Sun Belt, and yet are miffed that nobody takes your opinion on their current and future ability to be competative seriously. Does it really surprise you?

Furthermore, you cite attendance at Temple as a reason we should value your opinion on the matter

"Temple was forced out of the league due to poor attendance averages, non-competitiveness, and a lack of commitment to the football program from university officials."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Owls_football

Not a very sterling resume.

Did I not say that no other school, outside of maybe Idaho, has faced as many trials and tribulations as Temple? From being kicked out of the BE, to going Indy, to the MAC, back to the BE and now to the American 12. Temple football still is not out of the woods. It would not be a huge shock if the program is dropped within a few years.

So you've never commented on anything outside of SoCon and SBC football? Please....

[GlassOnion]

Did I not say that no other school, outside of maybe Idaho, has faced as many trials and tribulations as Temple? From being kicked out of the BE, to going Indy, to the MAC, back to the BE and now to the American 12.

So you've never commented on anything outside of SoCon and SBC football? Please....

I havent come back and tried to validate my opinion with having watched a piss poor FBS team and an FCS conference that doesnt even offer the full allotment of schollies either , did I?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I havent come back and tried to validate my opinion with having watched a piss poor FBS team and an FCS conference that doesnt even offer the full allotment of schollies either , did I?

Temple has been to two bowls in the last 4 years and was left out of another with an 8-4 record. I'm assuming that App State would love to be "piss poor" like that?

Why do you keep bringing up Lehigh?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Wait, you said App wouldnt be taking a step up in competition going to the Sun Belt. Temple was in the MAC and has a history of poor attendance, lack of commitment, and generally all-around FB suckage. If they can do it in the MAC, App can do it in the Sun Belt, right? So App will probably succeed.

The SBC will likely be lowest rated conference in FBS which means it will be considered weaker than at least one FCS league. The CAA folks were bragging three years ago that their league was better than the BE.

Temple had excellent attendance by MAC standards but "poor" by FBS standards. We also play in a top-shelf facility which allows us to schedule home and homes with the likes of Penn State and Notre Dame. I don't see App State pulling that off.

Most everything I've read suggests App State would love to enjoy the success that Temple has had the last few years.

[Saint3333]

P
You've said that before. It is still completely unsubstantiated.

Kids go where they feel comfortable going. Some want to stay close to home. Some care about academics. Some care about positions. Some care about depth charts. Some care about being FBS. Some don't.

Well it hasn't happened yet, it is a projection. I agree with your "some". But the majority of recruits do pick FBS schools over FCS schools that is substantiated. If that is the case historically what evidence do you have to support more recruits aren't going to continue this trend?

[AppAlum2003]

Look, with all apologies to the JMU's, NDSU's and Montana's of the FCS, if you can't see the Sunbelt as an upgrade for AppState, then you've been sampling some of Appaholic's moonshine again.

The common defense for most of you anti-FBS'ers is "haha... yeah, you're going to be just like Alabama now, right?" Talk about exaggeration for emphasis. Can't there be a middle ground? If I drive a '01 Honda Civic right now (dependable, works fine) and I've been doing the right things and saving my money, can't I buy a new 5-series BMW (nice upgrade, but not top-of-the-line) without being ridiculed? Don't judge me for not being able to afford a Lamborghini .

[GlassOnion]

The SBC will likely be lowest rated conference in FBS which means it will be considered weaker than at least one FCS league. The CAA folks were bragging three years ago that their league was better than the BE.Temple had excellent attendance by MAC standards but "poor" by FBS standards. We also play in a top-shelf facility which allows us to schedule home and homes with the likes of Penn State and Notre Dame. I don't see App State pulling that off.

That must make it true.

Playing a full slate of FBS teams with 85 scholarships I guess wouldnt be a detriment in the least. xrolleyesx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The SBC will likely be lowest rated conference in FBS which means it will be considered weaker than at least one FCS league. The CAA folks were bragging three years ago that their league was better than the BE.

Temple had excellent attendance by MAC standards but "poor" by FBS standards. We also play in a top-shelf facility which allows us to schedule home and homes with the likes of Penn State and Notre Dame. I don't see App State pulling that off.

Linc >>>>>>>> Rock.

[Saint3333]

The SBC will likely be lowest rated conference in FBS which means it will be considered weaker than at least one FCS league. The CAA folks were bragging three years ago that their league was better than the BE.

Temple had excellent attendance by MAC standards but "poor" by FBS standards. We also play in a top-shelf facility which allows us to schedule home and homes with the likes of Penn State and Notre Dame. I don't see App State pulling that off.

Did you notice that ODU already pulled it off. Every FBS program signs home and home deals with big name programs.

I'm learning quite a bit today. For years Every FBS program has hosted BCS conference members and every FBS programs wins the majority of recruiting battles against FCS programs, but for some reason App and GSU will not be able to do either. We are screwed!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Did you notice that ODU already pulled it off. Every FBS program signs home and home deals with big name programs.

I'm learning quite a bit today. For years Every FBS program has hosted BCS conference members and every FBS programs wins the majority of recruiting battles against FCS programs, but for some reason App and GSU will not be able to do either. We are screwed!

Are you referring to ODU signing a home and home with NC State? As I mentioned earlier, ODU has great potential because of their location. Schools will play them for recruiting purposes.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Did you notice that ODU already pulled it off. Every FBS program signs home and home deals with big name programs.

I'm learning quite a bit today. For years Every FBS program has hosted BCS conference members and every FBS programs wins the majority of recruiting battles against FCS programs, but for some reason App and GSU will not be able to do either. We are screwed!

Call me back when App or ODU get HOME and HOMES with the likes of Notre Dame and Penn State. Let's not kid ourselves that one stinking home game with NC State is even in the same ballpark.

[Appaholic]

You're a Luddite, Holic. Admit it.


Sent from the center of the universe.

Monkeywrencher actually.....

[GlassOnion]

Call me back when App or ODU get HOME and HOMES with the likes of Notre Dame and Penn State. Let's not kid ourselves that one stinking home game with NC State is even in the same ballpark.

Lets just pack it up then. The FCS sniffs FBS jocks. The FBS sucks. Lets all quit and become BCS fans. Awesome. I feel more relevant already.

[AppAlum2003]

Call me back when App or ODU get HOME and HOMES with the likes of Notre Dame and Penn State. Let's not kid ourselves that one stinking home game with NC State is even in the same ballpark.

Please see my post above. I don't think Saint indicated anywhere that Notre Dame was coming to Boone. Why does it have to go to the extreme every time? Seriously. Is it not feasible that the AppState students will be more fired up about having Louisville in Boone rather than Samford University?

[Saint3333]

Are you referring to ODU signing a home and home with NC State? As I mentioned earlier, ODU has great potential because of their location. Schools will play them for recruiting purposes.

South Alabama signed a home and home with them too.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Please see my post above. I don't think Saint indicated anywhere that Notre Dame was coming to Boone. Why does it have to go to the extreme every time? Seriously. Is it not feasible that the AppState students will be more fired up about having Louisville in Boone rather than Samford University?

App State is going to struggle getting even moderately successful FBS teams to vist. Why? Because these schools travel to smaller programs for recruiting, money, media exposure or alumni bases. For that reason, Boone, NC is not going to be an attractive destination with Charlotte moving up. Charlotte is going to be a major thorn in ASU's side imo.

[Saint3333]

Call me back when App or ODU get HOME and HOMES with the likes of Notre Dame and Penn State. Let's not kid ourselves that one stinking home game with NC State is even in the same ballpark.

You do realize getting a home and home with Nc State would be an in state BCS program for App this very similar to Penn St. Dollars and cents my friends that is what we're talking about.

But at least now you've conceeded we can get FBS programs to Boone, that's a start.

[FargoBison]

It was the right move, good luck to both schools.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You do realize getting a home and home with Nc State would be an in state BCS program for App this very similar to Penn St. Dollars and cents my friends that is what we're talking about.

But at least now you've conceeded we can get FBS programs to Boone, that's a start.

Getting an instate team to visit Boone has little to do with dollars and cents. PSU will no longer travel to Pitt because of politics and ego, not money. Those two had been huge rivals until the late 90's.

[DFW HOYA]

App will get a better quality of road I-A games but Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series.

I could see Wake playing in Boone but outside of that, no ACC or SEC school is signing that deal.

[AppAlum2003]

App State is going to struggle getting even moderately successful FBS teams to vist. Why? Because these schools travel to smaller programs for recruiting, money, media exposure or alumni bases. For that reason, Boone, NC is not going to be an attractive destination with Charlotte moving up. Charlotte is going to be a major thorn in ASU's side imo.

So what's your measurement of success? Who would we have to bring to Boone to make it worth the move? Isn't it considered successful to be better than you were but not the best?

[Skjellyfetti]

App will get a better quality of road I-A games but Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series.


Arkansas State has a home-and-home series with Missouri (SEC)
Louisiana Monroe has a home-and-home series with Wake Forest (ACC)
Louisiana Lafayette had a home-and-home series with Kansas State (Big XII)
South Alabama has a home-and-home series with Mississippi State (SEC) and Oklahoma State (Big XII)
Troy has a home-and-home series with Duke (ACC)

These aren't the biggest, most tradition-rich programs in the BCS-conferences.... But, I'm not sure how you can say "the Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series." xconfusedx

They've been able to get home-and-home series with every BCS conference in the region... xrolleyesx

[AppMan]

Did you stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night as well? xcoffeex

Well played my friend. Bravo!

[AppMan]

App State is going to struggle getting even moderately successful FBS teams to vist. Why? Because these schools travel to smaller programs for recruiting, money, media exposure or alumni bases. For that reason, Boone, NC is not going to be an attractive destination with Charlotte moving up. Charlotte is going to be a major thorn in ASU's side imo.

With only a 15,000 seat stadium APP can pay a substantially larger guarantee. Plus it remains to be seen if UNCC will draw flies.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

With only a 15,000 seat stadium APP can pay a substantially larger guarantee. Plus it remains to be seen if UNCC will draw flies.

What is the status of BOA Stadium? I'm assuming Charlotte will have access to it at some point?

[Saint3333]

App will get a better quality of road I-A games but Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series.

I could see Wake playing in Boone but outside of that, no ACC or SEC school is signing that deal.

Guess we better tell Troy to cancel those home games vs. Duke and Ole Miss of their schedule. You guys went to great academic institutions please do your research before posting.

[Saint3333]

What is the status of BOA Stadium? I'm assuming Charlotte will have access to it at some point?

They sure do just as App or ECU do, just pay the $600k rental fee.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

They sure do just as App or ECU do, just pay the $600k rental fee.

That's a major asset to Charlotte. If I'm Charlotte I'm not worried about the 600k fee. Just let the local politicians do the dirty work...

[Saint3333]

No chance do you know Jerry Richardson, it is his stadium not the city's. He is currently holding the city of Charlotte hostage for stadium improvements. Unles UNCC getting access to the stadium gets the tax increase passed I don't see him allowing free access to his #1 asset.

South Carolina and ECU paid the fee for their series.

[Skjellyfetti]

That's a major asset to Charlotte. If I'm Charlotte I'm not worried about the 600k fee. Just let the local politicians do the dirty work...

You have no idea what you're talking about... but, you keep trying to post like you do...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You have no idea what you're talking about... but, you keep trying to post like you do...

Enlighten me...

All I'm saying is USF,Temple, Pitt, NIU, GSU, Umass (lesser extent) have used local politics to their advantage in order to get access to their respective NFL stadium. I can see Charlotte using a similar tactic in order to host a game or two there a season.

[PhillyApp1]

App State is going to struggle getting even moderately successful FBS teams to vist. Why? Because these schools travel to smaller programs for recruiting, money, media exposure or alumni bases. For that reason, Boone, NC is not going to be an attractive destination with Charlotte moving up. Charlotte is going to be a major thorn in ASU's side imo.

Lehigh TU Owl you are an uneducated guessing a** that knows nothing about APP and Charlotte...reading boards does not educate you to have an educated opinon.

[PhillyApp1]

What is the status of BOA Stadium? I'm assuming Charlotte will have access to it at some point?

STUPID.....again

[PhillyApp1]

That's a major asset to Charlotte. If I'm Charlotte I'm not worried about the 600k fee. Just let the local politicians do the dirty work...

STUPID.....AGAIN .....this is NOT Philly....stop being ignorant !!!

[PhillyApp1]

Enlighten me...

All I'm saying is USF,Temple, Pitt, NIU, GSU, Umass (lesser extent) have used local politics to their advantage in order to get access to their respective NFL stadium. I can see Charlotte using a similar tactic in order to host a game or two there a season.

Here is your enlightenment moron ..... you know nothing about the SOUTH and college football !!

Philly and Charlotte = Not in the same universe .... UNC Charlotte like "Penn State nowhere commuting campus" ..and fans like Temple/Villanova Football fans that disappear and are unheard from

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Keep it rolling Philly App....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Here is your enlightenment moron ..... you know nothing about the SOUTH and college football !!

Philly and Charlotte = Not in the same universe .... UNC Charlotte like "Penn State nowhere commuting campus" ..and fans like Temple/Villanova Football fans that disappear and are unheard from

Which is why I brought up USF, NIU and Umass....

[PhillyApp1]

Keep it rolling Philly App....

Thank you .....but i do know both Philly and North Carolina ;-)

[PhillyApp1]

Which is I brought up USF, NIU and Umass....

APP will be fine and will adjust to SunBelt very quickly...2-3 years max
UNC-C will die a very fast death....there are more APP fans in Charlotte than UNC-C fans , atleast that will appear in public
UNC-C will hide from APP and avoid any contact in any manner


Remember APP...... Always Attack !!!.....the old APP is Back !! watch and see

[PhillyApp1]

Which is why I brought up USF, NIU and Umass....

UNC-C will not spend 600K for a game they will LOSE, against anyone that would fill half the stadium, of which 70% will be visitors.

APP has a winning tradition and could get 40-60K playing ECU in BOA stadium, UNC-C fans wouldn't waste there money....ask the Panther fans??

[asumike83]

If anyone can tell me why South Alabama, Troy and Louisiana-Monroe, none of whom are anywhere near a major media market, can get BCS teams to play at their stadium but App and GSU cannot, I'm all ears.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If anyone can tell me why South Alabama, Troy and Louisiana-Monroe, none of whom are anywhere near a major media market, can get BCS teams to play at their stadium but App and GSU cannot, I'm all ears.

In 2011 Louisiana and Alabama produced the 2nd and 4th most FBS recruits per-capita in the country.

Georgia was 3rd. The problem for the Eagles is why would a team go to Statesboro when they can play Georgia State in a 70k seat stadium in Atlanta?

I think Arky St and WKU are good barometers for App St.

WKU has hosted two BCS teams since 2008, USF '09 and Indiana '10.
Arkansas State only one since 2008, Louisville 2010.

[asumike83]

In 2011 Louisiana and Alabama produced the 2nd and 4th most FBS recruits per-capita in the country.

Georgia was 3rd. The problem for the Eagles is why would a team go to Statesboro when they can play Georgia State in a 70k seat stadium in Atlanta?

For that reason I think Arky St and WKU are good barometers for App St.

WKU has hosted two BCS teams since 2008, USF '09 and Indiana '10.
Arkansas State only one since 2008, Louisville 2010.

They are great recruiting states but why would a school like Mississippi State, who shares a conference with Auburn and Alabama, need to go to South Alabama to help their recruiting presence? Same goes for Texas Tech visiting Texas State, another recent move-up.

WKU is also playing UK in Nashville this year, which would be comparable to App playing an in-state BCS opponent in Charlotte.

I don't think any App fans expect SEC/ACC schools to come to Boone immediately. The frequency that App could eventually host them is debatable and will depend on what kind of teams are put on the field. However, App will host BCS opponents at home which is something that could not happen as an FCS program.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

They are great recruiting states but why would a school like Mississippi State, who shares a conference with Auburn and Alabama, need to go to South Alabama to help their recruiting presence? Same goes for Texas Tech visiting Texas State, another recent move-up.

I don't think any App fans expect SEC/ACC schools to come to Boone immediately. The frequency that App could eventually host them is debatable and will depend on what kind of teams are put on the field. However, App will host BCS opponents at home which is something that could not happen as an FCS program.

Starkville to Mobile is 230 miles. It's basically another home game for the Bulldogs.

Texas Tech was brought to open up Texas State's expanded stadium. My guess is there were some politics involved to ensure a full house.

Why in the world are two KY schools playing in Tennessee? Something must have went screwy there.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I did a little more research on the WKU-UK game in Nashville. The two schools agreed on a 4 game home and home with the Hilltoppers "home" games being in Nashville. The first game played in Nashville drew an announced crowd of 24,599.

[PaladinFan]

Starkville to Mobile is 230 miles. It's basically another home game for the Bulldogs.

Texas Tech was brought to open up Texas State's expanded stadium. My guess is there were some politics involved to ensure a full house.

Why in the world are two KY schools playing in Tennessee? Something must have went screwy there.

Let me define what you're saying. If the price is right, you can get anyone to play you.

[AppMan]

In 2011 Louisiana and Alabama produced the 2nd and 4th most FBS recruits per-capita in the country.

Georgia was 3rd. The problem for the Eagles is why would a team go to Statesboro when they can play Georgia State in a 70k seat stadium in Atlanta?

I think Arky St and WKU are good barometers for App St.

WKU has hosted two BCS teams since 2008, USF '09 and Indiana '10.
Arkansas State only one since 2008, Louisville 2010.

Ga State is an urban commuter school. Georgia is an overwhelmingly rural state. Country boys don't like concrete jungles. Besides, App & Ga South are already beating them for players as FCS programs.

[AppMan]

Call me back when App or ODU get HOME and HOMES with the likes of Notre Dame and Penn State. Let's not kid ourselves that one stinking home game with NC State is even in the same ballpark.

You remind me of ASU's previous AD. Using the absurd and extreme to try an make a point. Those games with PS and ND were home games for them. If you think they were played because of Temple you're more clueless than I thought. Was 20% of the crowds Temple fans?

[AppMan]

South Alabama signed a home and home with them too.

There you go again inserting facts into a discussion based on unintelligent opinion.

[AppMan]

App will get a better quality of road I-A games but Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series.

I could see Wake playing in Boone but outside of that, no ACC or SEC school is signing that deal.

I don't think a majority of App fans are concerned with getting big name BCS teams to Boone. Most App Fans aren't delusional and simply want the ability to play a regional non conference schedule, as in non small private schools, that appeals to our fans. Getting ECU, Wake, Duke, Marshall, ect at home is more our focus than scoring a deal with unc-ch, Clemson or Va Tech. But give it some time......

[AppMan]

What is the status of BOA Stadium? I'm assuming Charlotte will have access to it at some point?

Panthers already nixed that idea. That's why they built an on campus facility.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You remind me of ASU's previous AD. Using the absurd and extreme to try an make a point. Those games with PS and ND were home games for them. If you think they were played because of Temple you're more clueless than I thought. Was 20% of the crowds Temple fans?

This whole pissing contest started when App fans were calling Temple a bunch of chumps and how ODU was so, so much better for getting a home-and-home with nothing program NC State. In fact, Temple, objectively, is what App fans theoretically say they aspire to: home-and-homes with huge programs, MAC championships, GMAC bowl. What's extreme about quoting the facts?

As for attendance, does it matter what sweatshirts the fans are wearing as long as there are asses in the seats?

[PhillyApp1]

This whole pissing contest started when App fans were calling Temple a bunch of chumps and how ODU was so, so much better for getting a home-and-home with nothing program NC State. In fact, Temple, objectively, is what App fans theoretically say they aspire to: home-and-homes with huge programs, MAC championships, GMAC bowl. What's extreme about quoting the facts?

As for attendance, does it matter what sweatshirts the fans are wearing as long as there are asses in the seats?

The Pissing match started when people from Temple and Lehigh made uneducated comments about APP's future games AND they know nothing about the APP football region/culture which is a regional fanbase. The Sunbelt is the right move because we are now in the first steps of the BIG league. I do think we can do very well staying in this conference or if the football landscape changes, which it will, APP evaluate its position.

PHILLY/the northeast and the south are totally different Football marketplaces

[49RFootballNow]

Panthers already nixed that idea. That's why they built an on campus facility.

We have access to the BoA whenever we want (Panthers schedule allowing) just like almost any school(s) in North and South Carolina. We chose to build an on campus stadium because that's what's best for the program, the students and the fans.

[MplsBison]

App will get a better quality of road I-A games but Sun Belt teams simply do not get major college (top 5 conference) teams in home and home series.

I could see Wake playing in Boone but outside of that, no ACC or SEC school is signing that deal.

LA - Monroe played Baylor in Monroe this past season, on ESPN and took them to the wire (should've beat them). Such a thing is impossible for an FCS team.

All while paying less total dollars for football than App St pays now.


You were saying?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LA - Monroe played Baylor in Monroe this past season, on ESPN and took them to the wire (should've beat them). Such a thing is impossible for an FCS team.

All while paying less total dollars for football than App St pays now.


You were saying?

You're not going to get many App fans to say they aspire their athletic program to be just like Louisiana-Monroe's.

[MplsBison]

You're not going to get many App fans to say they aspire their athletic program to be just like Louisiana-Monroe's.

We're not talking about "athletic programs", whatever that means.

Any move up to the Sun Belt should view LA - Monroe's 2012 season as something to aspire to. What they accomplished last season was comparable on the total spectrum of college football success to what NDSU accomplished. Frankly.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Western Kentucky will almost certainly not be around long enough to be a rivalry game for App.

@McMurphyESPN Western Kentucky leaving Sun Belt for C-USA, joins July 1, 2014 source told @espn. 1st reported by Bowling Green Daily News

At least they waited 72 hours after App's and Georgia Southern's announcement.

[Laker]

@McMurphyESPN Western Kentucky leaving Sun Belt for C-USA, joins July 1, 2014 source told @espn. 1st reported by Bowling Green Daily News

At least they waited 72 hours after App's and Georgia Southern's announcement.

This story says that they will announce on Monday.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-owls/fau-blog/sfl-western-kentucky-to-announce-cusa-move-20130330,0,3869430.story

[PaladinFan]

This story says that they will announce on Monday.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/fau-owls/fau-blog/sfl-western-kentucky-to-announce-cusa-move-20130330,0,3869430.story

Entre' Idaho and NMSU. The two programs not a single conference wanted.

I'm happy for GSU and App and all that. I think they have decided to make a move that they feel is in their best interest, and I respect that. Still, you cannot look at the SunBelt and get good feelings about the long-term viability of that organization. It seems like just about every program hops on the first train to somewhere else.

[AppAlum2003]

Entre' Idaho and NMSU. The two programs not a single conference wanted.

I'm happy for GSU and App and all that. I think they have decided to make a move that they feel is in their best interest, and I respect that. Still, you cannot look at the SunBelt and get good feelings about the long-term viability of that organization. It seems like just about every program hops on the first train to somewhere else.

OK, that's fine. Maybe the Sunbelt is not long for this world. But if AppState makes the jump right now, they're FBS regardless of what happens to the Sunbelt. Another conference will take them if something happens to the Sunbelt. The point of the move is to get to FBS, not the make the Sunbelt a great conference.

[PaladinFan]

OK, that's fine. Maybe the Sunbelt is not long for this world. But if AppState makes the jump right now, they're FBS regardless of what happens to the Sunbelt. Another conference will take them if something happens to the Sunbelt. The point of the move is to get to FBS, not the make the Sunbelt a great conference.

No doubt that's true. But I imagine Idaho and NMSU don't love being FBS independents either.

[GlassOnion]

No doubt that's true. But I imagine Idaho and NMSU don't love being FBS independents either.

The SB isnt going anywhere.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The SB isnt going anywhere.

Yet another similarity to the FCS.

[AppAlum2003]

Yet another similarity to the FCS.

I know you're not a fan of moving to FBS, so I get the angst. But I saw the other day that average SoCon attendance without GSU and AppState was around 9k. Nine-freaking-k. We literally bring more students to home games than the rest of our conference brings total attendees.

[MplsBison]

Entre' Idaho and NMSU. The two programs not a single conference wanted.

I'm happy for GSU and App and all that. I think they have decided to make a move that they feel is in their best interest, and I respect that. Still, you cannot look at the SunBelt and get good feelings about the long-term viability of that organization. It seems like just about every program hops on the first train to somewhere else.

Only so long as there's somewhere else to go to!

WKU is leaving because a spot opened in CUSA, which is because the A12 took another CUSA team. So long as SB stays around 10-12 teams - no conference are going to be able to absorb all their members.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I know you're not a fan of moving to FBS, so I get the angst. But I saw the other day that average SoCon attendance without GSU and AppState was around 9k. Nine-freaking-k. We literally bring more students to home games than the rest of our conference brings total attendees.

Yeah, I don't think you got the gist of it there AA and although I don't see the upgrade if you all do that is fine by me and good luck. The comment was in reference to GO and several others and all the FCS is dying BS. The SBC isn't dying, The FCS isn't dying. Simple.

Some teams from FCS have been looking to go at the first opportunity. Obviously the same can be said for the SBC. Some are happy to be where they are at in the case of both places so all is well.

You can take it as angst if you'd like but it is really just a smartass comment back to the smartass comments leveled.

[AppAlum2003]

Yeah, I don't think you got the gist of it there AA and although I don't see the upgrade if you all do that is fine by me and good luck. The comment was in reference to GO and several others and all the FCS is dying BS. The SBC isn't dying, The FCS isn't dying. Simple.

Some teams from FCS have been looking to go at the first opportunity. Obviously the same can be said for the SBC. Some are happy to be where they are at in the case of both places so all is well.

You can take it as angst if you'd like but it is really just a smartass comment back to the smartass comments leveled.

Oh.

[pokefan02]

A lot of the Sun Belt BCS series are 2 for 1 deals from what I have seen from the LA schools.

[Saint3333]

Troy vs Ole Miss signed last week 1 for 1, nothing to see here.

[PaladinFan]

A lot of the Sun Belt BCS series are 2 for 1 deals from what I have seen from the LA schools.

Auburn, Alabama, and LSU basically funded the athletic programs at those two schools for years.

Again, if the price is right, you can get anyone to do anything.

[WH49er]

APP will be fine and will adjust to SunBelt very quickly...2-3 years max
UNC-C will die a very fast death....there are more APP fans in Charlotte than UNC-C fans , atleast that will appear in public
UNC-C will hide from APP and avoid any contact in any manner


Remember APP...... Always Attack !!!.....the old APP is Back !! watch and see




We will see how fast the Appy/Tarheel fans jump off the bandwagon during your first 3-4 win year in the Sun Belt. Maybe your fanbase will stop thinking they are Alabama.

App basketball shows where your fanbase goes when things take a wrong turn.

[The Moody1]

We will see how fast the Appy/Tarheel fans jump off the bandwagon

It will happen as fast as all the UNCc/Tarheel fans jump on the 49er bandwagon. In other words, nothing to worry about.

[Apphole]

I don't understand the obsession with UNCc fans putting us down by saying we have a lot of UNC/App duel fanship. It's like Western fans taking shots at us for being a mountain school.

[Apphole]

App basketball shows where your fanbase goes when things take a wrong turn.

Or it shows that alumni can't drive up the mountain on very many week nights...

Be gone, troll. Your obsession with App State is getting a little ridiculous.

[Saint3333]

Raise your hand if you work with a UNCC grad that bleeds baby blue and calls UNC-CH "we".

[ASU_Fanatic]

Lol I'm obviously not going to Duke but I'm always going to love Duke basketball and really IDGAF

[Apphole]

Raise your hand if you work with a UNCC grad that bleeds baby blue and calls UNC-CH "we".

I know several. But I never pull that card in these many heated discussions with Cee fans because I know it's a problem for App as well.

Perhaps UNCC fans have less rhetorical ammunition.

[WH49er]

Be gone, troll. Your obsession with App State is getting a little ridiculous.





You little Appy sheboys are hilarious. You talk trash about Charlotte and when you get a response of the same nature about Appy it is considered trolling.

[WH49er]

Raise your hand if you work with a UNCC grad that bleeds baby blue and calls UNC-CH "we".



Raise your hand if you know a dozen App grads that worship Chapel Hill.

[Saint3333]

All schools at our level have this problem no doubt. But for historical commuter schools this is an even bigger problem. UNCC grads, especially the ones that graduated before 2000 really didn't identify themselves with UNCC athletics. That is changing but probably not as fast as you'd like.

[Apphole]

Raise your hand if you know a dozen App grads that worship Chapel Hill.

The point is, you're a hypocrite. It is a problem at both schools. Hell, I know people that went to State that still worshiped Chapel Hill.

[ccd494]

Is there any truth to the rumor that App State is only going FBS so they never have to play Maine in Boone ever again?

:D

[Mountaineer]

Is there any truth to the rumor that App State is only going FBS so they never have to play Maine in Boone ever again?

:D

The extra 22 schollies are needed so we can actually win a game against the Black Bears. :o

:p

[dbackjon]

Sh
Show me a program whose attendance was better when they were FCS/I-AA than when they were FBS/I-A.



Nevada is one for sure.

[MplsBison]

Nevada is one for sure.

Bulls**t.

Tell that to the people who watched the 'Pack upset Boise in Reno, what was that two seasons ago? xlolx

[dbackjon]

Bulls**t.

Tell that to the people who watched the 'Pack upset Boise in Reno, what was that two seasons ago? xlolx

Not sure there was anyone there to tell it to.

We all know you are just a ****ing moron, but the question was - has any team seen attendance DROP since moving to FBS?

I answered correctly that Nevada's have. While the 15K that watched Nevada upset Boise may have gotten a better experience than the 30K that watched Nevada beat NAU for the Big Sky title in 1986, there was certainly much fewer of them.

Try to keep out of the adult's conversation, please?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Nevada is one for sure.

Marshalls numbers have fluctuated back and forth as well with a few better, a few worse but pretty close to what they had been previously.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Not sure there was anyone there to tell it to.

We all know you are just a ****ing moron, but the question was - has any team seen attendance DROP since moving to FBS?

I answered correctly that Nevada's have. While the 15K that watched Nevada upset Boise may have gotten a better experience than the 30K that watched Nevada beat NAU for the Big Sky title in 1986, there was certainly much fewer of them.

Try to keep out of the adult's conversation, please?

Idaho has been off the mark as well and I don't know why that wasn't the first one we thought of. xlolx

[dbackjon]

Idaho has been off the mark as well and I don't know why that wasn't the first one we thought of. xlolx

Maybe because we don't think of Idaho as FBS :)

Of the three Big Sky to FBS schools, only Boise has improved attendance since the move.

[Skjellyfetti]

We all know you are just a ****ing moron, but the question was - has any team seen attendance DROP since moving to FBS?

I answered correctly that Nevada's have. While the 15K that watched Nevada upset Boise may have gotten a better experience than the 30K that watched Nevada beat NAU for the Big Sky title in 1986, there was certainly much fewer of them.

Try to keep out of the adult's conversation, please?

Do you have a source for this?

The 1986 Nevada - NAU game doesn't show up in Nevada's top-10 attendances... though, if it was at all close to 30k... it would have. xconfusedx


And... when Nevada upset Boise... they had a sellout (30,712)....... not the 15k you claimed. xcoffeex


Top 10 Mackay Stadium Crowds
Attendance Opponent Date Result
1. 33,391 (sellout) UNLV 10/28/95 W, 55-32
2. 31,900 (sellout) UNLV 10/4/03 L, 12-16
3. 30,712 (sellout) Boise State 11/26/10 W, 34-31 OT
4. 30,420 Oregon 9/13/97 L, 20-24
5. 30,118 UNLV 9/6/97 W, 31-14
6. 29,167 Oregon State 9/4/99 L, 13-28
7. 28,631 San Jose State 11/6/93 W, 46-45
8. 28,523 Boise State 9/11/93 W, 17-14
9. 28, 809 Cal 9/17/10 W, 52-31
10. 26,668 UNLV 10/2/93 W, 49-14

http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html





Edit. Best I can do is wikipedia... which lists Mackay Stadium's capacity at 15k from 1985-1989.


29,993 (2006-present)
31,545 (1992-2005)
26,000 (1991)
20,000 (1990)
15,000 (1985-1989)
12,000 (1978-1984)
7,500 (1966-1977)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackay_Stadium

Perhaps you had the attendances backwards?

Maybe you have a better source for their pre-move up attendance?

[MplsBison]

Not sure there was anyone there to tell it to.

We all know you are just a ****ing moron, but the question was - has any team seen attendance DROP since moving to FBS?

I answered correctly that Nevada's have. While the 15K that watched Nevada upset Boise may have gotten a better experience than the 30K that watched Nevada beat NAU for the Big Sky title in 1986, there was certainly much fewer of them.

Try to keep out of the adult's conversation, please?

I don't believe that for a second. Are you really that bitter to lie about it??

[MplsBison]

Maybe because we don't think of Idaho as FBS :)

Of the three Big Sky to FBS schools, only Boise has improved attendance since the move.

And there it is. Sheer hatred from jealousy. Just didn't realize the schools that have stayed back in the Big Sky were *that* jealous of those who've made it out.

[MplsBison]

Do you have a source for this?

The 1986 Nevada - NAU game doesn't show up in Nevada's top-10 attendances... though, if it was at all close to 30k... it would have. xconfusedx


And... when Nevada upset Boise... they had a sellout (30,712)....... not the 15k you claimed. xcoffeex



http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html





Edit. Best I can do is wikipedia... which lists Mackay Stadium's capacity at 15k from 1985-1989.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackay_Stadium

Perhaps you had the attendances backwards?

Maybe you have a better source for their pre-move up attendance?

I figured he was lying. Pretty pathetic.

I saw Nevada upset Boise in Reno on ESPN, place was as packed as it ever had been in the history of the stadium. Which makes sense - by far the most significant game ever played in the stadium.

[dbackjon]

Do you have a source for this?

The 1986 Nevada - NAU game doesn't show up in Nevada's top-10 attendances... though, if it was at all close to 30k... it would have. xconfusedx


And... when Nevada upset Boise... they had a sellout (30,712)....... not the 15k you claimed. xcoffeex



http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html





Edit. Best I can do is wikipedia... which lists Mackay Stadium's capacity at 15k from 1985-1989.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackay_Stadium

Perhaps you had the attendances backwards?

Maybe you have a better source for their pre-move up attendance?

In 2011 (two years ago, per MplsBitch), Nevada AVERAGED 15K. Even in 2010, with the Boise sell out, they only averaged less than 20K

I was at the game in 1986. Announced crowd was just shy of 30K. So Wikipedia is wrong. They had temp bleachers, and had just expanded the stadium. They also had a standing room only student section all along the endzone fencing area.

[dbackjon]

And there it is. Sheer hatred from jealousy. Just didn't realize the schools that have stayed back in the Big Sky were *that* jealous of those who've made it out.



No jealousy or hatred. Nevada and Boise needed to go to FBS - they had outgrown the Big Sky. I cheer for them to do well. Idaho moved to FBS only because Boise did. They have failed.

Big Sky is a great conference.

[MplsBison]

In 2011 (two years ago, per MplsBitch), Nevada AVERAGED 15K. Even in 2010, with the Boise sell out, they only averaged less than 20K

I was at the game in 1986. Announced crowd was just shy of 30K. So Wikipedia is wrong. They had temp bleachers, and had just expanded the stadium. They also had a standing room only student section all along the endzone fencing area.

http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html

I trust the official site for Nevada athletics. I don't trust you. Sorry, there is no 30k attendance recorded for 1986. Just read the article, they were still thinking about expansion in the late 80's and early 90's.

[MplsBison]

No jealousy or hatred. Nevada and Boise needed to go to FBS - they had outgrown the Big Sky. I cheer for them to do well. Idaho moved to FBS only because Boise did. They have failed.

Big Sky is a great conference.

The Big Sky is a great conference.

It's also the one conference in FCS that is guaranteed safe from FBS expansion and conference realignment.

That's because none of the teams (except maybe Montana and Montana St) are capable of being drafted up into the Mountain West and none of them have anywhere else to go. Literally stuck out west as they are.

Idaho got out and now the Big Sky schools are gnashing their teeth that they didn't fall back down, after getting the Sun Belt invite.

[dbackjon]

The Big Sky is a great conference.

It's also the one conference in FCS that is guaranteed safe from FBS expansion and conference realignment.

That's because none of the teams (except maybe Montana and Montana St) are capable of being drafted up into the Mountain West and none of them have anywhere else to go. Literally stuck out west as they are.

Idaho got out and now the Big Sky schools are gnashing their teeth that they didn't fall back down, after getting the Sun Belt invite.

No one is gnashing their teeth. No one really cares. Would it be nice? Sure. I like Idaho - I almost went there. But they aren't FBS. They will have fun going to BFsouth for a few years. Good luck to that.

[dbackjon]

http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html

I trust the official site for Nevada athletics. I don't trust you. Sorry, there is no 30k attendance recorded for 1986. Just read the article, they were still thinking about expansion in the late 80's and early 90's.

I will trust my own eeyes and ears.


And I really don't give two ****s what you think - because no one really does anyways.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

No one is gnashing their teeth. No one really cares. Would it be nice? Sure. I like Idaho - I almost went there. But they aren't FBS. They will have fun going to BFsouth for a few years. Good luck to that.
That is the thing about him, he likes to think it's some big emotional deal for us. It is purely the fact that you can look at Idaho and where they are and their facilities, fan support, budget, etc. and see that they are not where they belong. Boise and Nevada definetely are and I pull for all three teams to do well. One of those teams is not where they belong and is not making progress the other two are doing just fine.

To think that it's some gnashing of teeth is the perspective of a moron that looks for simple surface answers.

I do not want to see them get in a situation where they have to drop football altogether just as I wouldn't want to see a friend trying to live in a house well beyond his means and then end up homeless. I like being able to use the fact that AZGriz went there against him when it seves a purpose. xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.nevadawolfpack.com/facilities/mackay-stadium.html

I trust the official site for Nevada athletics. I don't trust you. Sorry, there is no 30k attendance recorded for 1986. Just read the article, they were still thinking about expansion in the late 80's and early 90's.

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college/gsu-football-ticket-prices-wont-change/nWQLf/


The Panthers had an announced average attendance of 14,569 after 19 home games played in 2010, ’11 and ’12. Announced attendance includes tickets sold and distributed. However, the actual attendance average was 7,926, a 46-percent difference, according to the Georgia Dome’s turnstile counts at those games. The percentage looks extreme because of the small sample size.

It’s common for college and pro teams to use announced attendance, rather than actual attendance, because the former number is almost always higher. The Braves (and Major League Baseball), Hawks, Falcons, Georgia and Georgia Tech, to name a few, use tickets sold and distributed. The NCAA, which mandates that FBS football programs average 15,000 fans at home games at least once in a rolling two-year window, allows teams to use either method when reporting attendance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I do not want to see them get in a situation where they have to drop football altogether just as I wouldn't want to see a friend trying to live in a house well beyond his means and then end up homeless. I like being able to use the fact that AZGriz went there against him when it seves a purpose. xlolx

Me neither. Unfortunately some low-level FBS schools are going to have to make some awfully tough decisions in the next few years, including recent move-ups like UMass and Georgia State, on whether to stop playing FBS ball and play FCS ball or drop altogether. Idaho, Temple, and others are in a real pickle.

[SoCon2013]

In 1974 people said the same thing about App moving from D2 to D1, that turned out alright.

ASU was only D2 for a few months, I believe in 1973.

But, actually, ASU was moving up from NAIA after just a year or so in what the NCAA called "Small College."

[walliver]

Me neither. Unfortunately some low-level FBS schools are going to have to make some awfully tough decisions in the next few years, including recent move-ups like UMass and Georgia State, on whether to stop playing FBS ball and play FCS ball or drop altogether. Idaho, Temple, and others are in a real pickle.

I don't think FCS is really an option for Georgia State. They are basically stuck in the Dome, or whatever stadium the Falcons get. To be successful at FCS level, hey would need to move to a much smaller stadium, probably a high school field, and I don't think that will work out.

They have a herculean marketing task if they are to be successful at FBS, and I suspect football will disappear from GaState within the next decade.

[MplsBison]

I will trust my own eeyes and ears.


And I really don't give two ****s what you think - because no one really does anyways.

Have you ever heard of the concept that people sub-consciously alter their own memories to fit their conscious convictions? It has happened in cases of rape, where the victim was so sure she knew who raped her that she altered her own memory of the face of her rapist to fit that of the person she "knew" committed the crime.

DNA evidence later in fact absolved the man wrongly put behind bars by the victims testimony.


Your memory has likewise been raided by your conscious convictions. And here you are trying to mislead us.

I won't allow that.


The facts are stated clear as day - yet you're still trying to say otherwise. No sir, not allowed. You are wrong.

[MplsBison]

No one is gnashing their teeth. No one really cares. Would it be nice? Sure. I like Idaho - I almost went there. But they aren't FBS. They will have fun going to BFsouth for a few years. Good luck to that.

They are FBS. That means they're better than the Big Sky and better than NAU - because both of those things belong to the lower sub-division, FCS.

[CID1990]

Have you ever heard of the concept that people sub-consciously alter their own memories to fit their conscious convictions? It has happened in cases of rape, where the victim was so sure she knew who raped her that she altered her own memory of the face of her rapist to fit that of the person she "knew" committed the crime.

DNA evidence later in fact absolved the man wrongly put behind bars by the victims testimony.


Your memory has likewise been raided by your conscious convictions. And here you are trying to mislead us.

I won't allow that.


The facts are stated clear as day - yet you're still trying to say otherwise. No sir, not allowed. You are wrong.

Wow!

I think I know where MensaBison was, right before he came back and started dropping turds all over the place....

http://youtu.be/mYuF3T7s7XY


Sent from the center of the universe.