OT: Delany Says Big Ten Could De-Emphasize Athletics If O'Bannon Wins TV Money Share

[superman7515]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20130318/big-ten-jim-delany-ncaa-obannon/#ixzz2NwqnuMFy


Ohio State versus Mount Union in a regular-season football game? Wisconsin against Wisconsin-Whitewater in a regular-season basketball game?

This isn't an outreach program between Big Ten schools and their Division III neighbors. It's one possible future Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany envisions if the plaintiffs prevail in Ed O'Bannon vs. the NCAA. In a declaration filed last week in federal court in support of the NCAA's motion against class certification, Delany threatened that any outcome that results in athletes getting a piece of the schools' television revenue could force the schools of the Big Ten to de-emphasize athletics as the Ivy League's schools did decades ago.

"...it has been my longstanding belief that The Big Ten's schools would forgo the revenues in those circumstances and instead take steps to downsize the scope, breadth and activity of their athletic programs," Delany wrote. "Several alternatives to a 'pay for play' model exist, such as the Division III model, which does not offer any athletics-based grants-in-aid, and, among others, a need-based financial model. These alternatives would, in my view, be more consistent with The Big Ten's philosophy that the educational and lifetime economic benefits associated with a university education are the appropriate quid pro quo for its student athletes."


Plenty more at the above link...

PDF of Delany's Courtroom Declaration of Support (http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/.element/img/4.0/global/swapper/201303/130318.01.pdf)

[superman7515]

So is the consensus that there is any truth to his statement that if they win, the Big 10 will pack up and move back? Or is this just saber-rattling? Tons of possibilities for LFN's next blog, which he will post a link to here shortly, such as petitioning for a FBS non-scholarship conference, seismic changes in NCAA athletics, major schools dropping sports altogether, etc etc etc.

[danefan]

Haha. Nice try. Way too much money On the table even if they give some to the kids that earn it.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Jesus these Big 10 drama queens. It's not like they're even a top conference anymore.

[MplsBison]

University of Chicago did it.

They're still in the academic Big Ten.

[WeAreNorthDakota]

In my opinion, the only pay for play model that makes any sense from an equity standpoint is de-amateurization. Allowing student athletes to pursue endorsement money would give them a way to cash in on their athletic prowess without having to worry about how schools can afford to pay athletes and how much to pay student athletes at the same school in different sports.

[IBleedYellow]

The B1G are a bunch of drama queens. They can't stand not being the top BCS conference.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So is the consensus that there is any truth to his statement that if they win, the Big 10 will pack up and move back? Or is this just saber-rattling? Tons of possibilities for LFN's next blog, which he will post a link to here shortly, such as petitioning for a FBS non-scholarship conference, seismic changes in NCAA athletics, major schools dropping sports altogether, etc etc etc.

Hardy har har. This has about as much chance of happening as me becoming Delany's successor.

[bonarae]

University of Chicago did it.

They're still in the academic Big Ten.

That was way back then, before we were born (UChicago dropped football in 1938; they left the Big Ten in 1946). The Ivies started their league in 1954, 15 years before the Maroons returned to the football world in 1969. Apparently the UAA (the Maroons' current conference) model is modelled on the Ivy League's (i.e. no playoff opportunities for the football champion, since they are only 4 of them right now [Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Washington U and Case]; now those 4 football-playing schools are now associate members of other conferences in football.) (To cut the long story short, though, the University of Chicago's current varsity teams do not participate in any postseason opportunities except in basketball and individual sports. Johns Hopkins, currently in the Centennial Conference for virtually all sports, used to play in the UAA as well for a time.)

For more information, look for my thread dating back to September 2011, which has a link to NYT's UChicago football story, in Other Sports.

On topic (B1G): This is just another twist in the O'Bannon vs. NCAA saga. It looks like it's going to become a stalemate, with compromises coming in both ends once the case is over. Delany is fighting against so many opponents, and he must find other partners to support him. The B1G is fighting back to preserve amateurism... but current trends say otherwise. xsmhx

[Go Green]

Would be great if the B1G went Ivy!

We could see a lot more Penn-Penn State and Princeton-Rutgers games again!!!

xthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupx

[Cocky]

The B1G is already playing at the Ivy level just bigger crowds.

[bonarae]

The B1G is already playing at the Ivy level just bigger crowds.

Disagree. From time to time we hear academically ineligible commits out of B1G schools, and also the pressure level of the players is the same as other FBS schools.

[MplsBison]

That was way back then, before we were born (UChicago dropped football in 1938; they left the Big Ten in 1946). The Ivies started their league in 1954, 15 years before the Maroons returned to the football world in 1969. Apparently the UAA (the Maroons' current conference) model is modelled on the Ivy League's (i.e. no playoff opportunities for the football champion, since they are only 4 of them right now [Chicago, Carnegie Mellon, Washington U and Case]; now those 4 football-playing schools are now associate members of other conferences in football.) (To cut the long story short, though, the University of Chicago's current varsity teams do not participate in any postseason opportunities except in basketball and individual sports. Johns Hopkins, currently in the Centennial Conference for virtually all sports, used to play in the UAA as well for a time.)

For more information, look for my thread dating back to September 2011, which has a link to NYT's UChicago football story, in Other Sports.

On topic (B1G): This is just another twist in the O'Bannon vs. NCAA saga. It looks like it's going to become a stalemate, with compromises coming in both ends once the case is over. Delany is fighting against so many opponents, and he must find other partners to support him. The B1G is fighting back to preserve amateurism... but current trends say otherwise. xsmhx

Cool info! Thanks!

If the B1G schools (especially the likes of Michigan, Ohio St and Penn St in football) didn't make so much darn money...the argument might have a chance of seeming genuine.

[Cocky]

Disagree. From time to time we hear academically ineligible commits out of B1G schools, and also the pressure level of the players is the same as other FBS schools.

I was talking about on the field. B1G is a long ways from the Ivys is the classroom.

[DFW HOYA]

Delany had better be careful about assuming his schools would follow this unlikely course. Remember, the SEC still needs teams and they're not turning back.

[Laker]

Cool info! Thanks!

If the B1G schools (especially the likes of Michigan, Ohio St and Penn St in football) didn't make so much darn money...the argument might have a chance of seeming genuine.

Exactly. This is just posturing by Delaney. They wouldn't have added Maryland and Rutgers and be looking to take more just in the name of academics.

[MplsBison]

I was talking about on the field. B1G is a long ways from the Ivys is the classroom.

Not at all. B1G owns the Ivy when it comes to research.

All the Ivy has is elitism: endowment size and selectivity/perception of quality.


You're not going to learn any more concepts any better in any undergraduate class at an Ivy school than you will at a B1G, Pac 10 or several other fantastic private schools around the country.

[walliver]

1) We won't play FCS games because they are below us in football.

2) We will play D-3 because sports are 't that important.

What will the B1G say next.

[superman7515]

Exactly. This is just posturing by Delaney. They wouldn't have added Maryland and Rutgers and be looking to take more just in the name of academics.

In their defense, both Maryland and Rutgers are AAU schools. The only school in the Big 10 that isn't an AAU school is Nebraska, and they were in but were removed along very contentious circumstances that left the head of the AAU saying he was embarassed and it was probably something they would never do again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1) We won't play FCS games because they are below us in football.

2) We will play D-3 because sports are 't that important.

What will the B1G say next.

Beautiful. Perfect.

[Professor Chaos]

In my opinion, the only pay for play model that makes any sense from an equity standpoint is de-amateurization. Allowing student athletes to pursue endorsement money would give them a way to cash in on their athletic prowess without having to worry about how schools can afford to pay athletes and how much to pay student athletes at the same school in different sports.
I agree, it is even a double standard amongst collegiate student athletes and regular college students. The ESPN commentators made a good point about that during the Big 12 championship game last Saturday. A drummer from each of the Kansas and Kansas State bands had a duel at halftime and the Kansas drummer won. As his prize he received a years worth of gas from Phillips 66 (corporate sponsor of the Big 12 tournament). If that had been a player from Kansas he wouldn't have been able to accept it if he wanted to maintain elgibility to compete.

So basically, if you're a college student who has an exception skill you can use it for your financial gain.... unless you're an athlete.

[MplsBison]

In their defense, both Maryland and Rutgers are AAU schools. The only school in the Big 10 that isn't an AAU school is Nebraska, and they were in but were removed along very contentious circumstances that left the head of the AAU saying he was embarassed and it was probably something they would never do again.

Do you have any more info on that? I'm very curious.

I can only guess: someone with deep pockets in the Big XII lashed out at Nebraska and bribed the AAU to decertify them as punishment for leaving the conference.


No doubt they'll quickly get back in, now that they are in the academic Big Ten - but they were already spending a lot on research anyway. I have to think their graduate programs are at least comparable with Kansas and Missouri, which are both still in.

[Go...gate]

Hardy har har. This has about as much chance of happening as me becoming Delany's successor.

I can see it now: The BIG 10 - PATRIOT LEAGUE CHALLENGE!!!!!

[Go...gate]

In their defense, both Maryland and Rutgers are AAU schools. The only school in the Big 10 that isn't an AAU school is Nebraska, and they were in but were removed along very contentious circumstances that left the head of the AAU saying he was embarassed and it was probably something they would never do again.

Isn't NU trying to get back in?

[ccd494]

No, it left the Nebraska chancellor saying he was embarrassed. http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status

UNL had finished last or almost last in every AAU ranking for over a decade. It's their own damn fault.

[superman7515]

No, it left the Nebraska chancellor saying he was embarrassed. http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/26078/nebraska-loses-aau-status

UNL had finished last or almost last in every AAU ranking for over a decade. It's their own damn fault.

I'll have to find the article, but the head of the AAU said he was embarassed because it didn't look good on them to remove members in split votes the way it went (44 to remove - 18 to remain - 1 (Nebraska) not voting). Also, you have to take into account the reason they were last or almost last is because although their funding for research through USDA wasn't allowed to be counted even though agricultural faculty did count. So it looked like fewer research dollars spread across more researchers. Delany was reportedly unhappy as welll because at the same time the Big 10 was saying that you have to be a member of the AAU to be admitted, Big 10 schools (Michigan and Wisconsin) were trying to get Nebraska thrown out.

[Bisonoline]

Delaneys blowing smoke out of his azz. He aint giving up the cash. Period.

[MplsBison]

I'll have to find the article, but the head of the AAU said he was embarassed because it didn't look good on them to remove members in split votes the way it went (44 to remove - 18 to remain - 1 (Nebraska) not voting). Also, you have to take into account the reason they were last or almost last is because although their funding for research through USDA wasn't allowed to be counted even though agricultural faculty did count. So it looked like fewer research dollars spread across more researchers. Delany was reportedly unhappy as welll because at the same time the Big 10 was saying that you have to be a member of the AAU to be admitted, Big 10 schools (Michigan and Wisconsin) were trying to get Nebraska thrown out.

That still seems like garbage - several Big Ten universities have ag schools. In particular, Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are the #2 and #3 in the Big Ten in research expenditures (Michigan being #1).

As is, the NSF still only has FY2009 data tables published (working on the FY11 data) and in that data Nebraska was still ahead of Iowa in research expenditures.


Now Perlman did note three other criteria in the AAU's decision, but those all looked like typical academic elitism bunk. "Oh what's that, your research expenditures topped 1 billion last year...oh...but you don't have any National Academy members in your faculty?? Sorry!"

I'm sticking with someone in the Big XII paid off the AAU to get Nebraska out, as punishment.

[Babar]

Not at all. B1G owns the Ivy when it comes to research.

All the Ivy has is elitism: endowment size and selectivity/perception of quality.

You're not going to learn any more concepts any better in any undergraduate class at an Ivy school than you will at a B1G, Pac 10 or several other fantastic private schools around the country.


It's almost like you're trying to hijack the thread! Go in peace, Minneapolitan.


That still seems like garbage - several Big Ten universities have ag schools. In particular, Wisconsin and Minnesota, which are the #2 and #3 in the Big Ten in research expenditures (Michigan being #1).

As is, the NSF still only has FY2009 data tables published (working on the FY11 data) and in that data Nebraska was still ahead of Iowa in research expenditures.

Now Perlman did note three other criteria in the AAU's decision, but those all looked like typical academic elitism bunk. "Oh what's that, your research expenditures topped 1 billion last year...oh...but you don't have any National Academy members in your faculty?? Sorry!"

I'm sticking with someone in the Big XII paid off the AAU to get Nebraska out, as punishment.

I think you could learn a lot more about this with a few minutes on Google.

Two B1G schools actually voted against Nebraska, and these were the votes that put Nebraska out, since a supermajority was needed. Nor was Nebraska the only school dropped in that decision cycle--Syracuse left before they could be kicked out. Do you think the Big XII paid to have them put out?

Nebraska was the victim of a decision by the AAU to de-emphasize funding that was awarded on a noncompetitive basis. The AAU made the understandable, if arguable, decision that pork barrel is not the equivalent of competitive grants as a marker of academic productivity or excellence. Anybody can get funding through their senator. Unfortunately, this hit Nebraska particularly hard because NU had historically put a lot of its eggs in the ag basket, and Department of Agriculture funding, while not always pork barrel, tends to be awarded noncompetitively, on the basis of geography and existing programs (which does make some sense, since different growing conditions affect agriculture much more than, say, physics.)

Comparing Nebraska's emphasis on agriculture to Wisconsin's or Minnesota's is a nonstarter. They all have ag schools, yes, but Wiscy and UM have huge research programs outside that.

Nebraska's last hope was that they could count the research expenditures at Nebraska's medical school--but the Nebraska system had, in its infinite wisdom, separated UNMC from NU administratively and financially. It makes sense from one perspective, since the institutions are in different cities, but it crushed Nebraska's research profile.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Jim Delany xlolx