PATSY RATINGS 2013 - LEHIGH

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/02/patsy-ratings-lehighs-class-of-2017.html

A stunner.

THE RATINGS RACE WITH 1 TO GO:

COLGATE - 73
FORDHAM - 70
BUCKNELL - 51
LEHIGH - 51
LAFAYETTE - 49
HOLY CROSS - 34

[RichH2]

Not happy, but about what I expected. One Q,thought both Smith and Duffy were ***.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Not happy, but about what I expected. One Q,thought both Smith and Duffy were ***.

Duffy is **, I double-checked.

[van]

Some bright spots in this class. Still troubled by DL, would have thought more there. Overall, pretty good though.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Some bright spots in this class. Still troubled by DL, would have thought more there. Overall, pretty good though.

I think they did pretty well there. They got three DL guys with one, Smith, potentially being able to contribute right away. You have to like their size as well, two are at 6'4 230 and the other is listed at 6'2 255. While there isn't an immediate replacement for Chagani there's certainly a solid future.

My only "complaint" is the lack of RB. It's good to have one, just because...

The thing I don't understand with this years Patsy ratings is the disparity between the teams. I simply can't see Colgate's and Fordham's classes being THAT much better than LU,LC, BU and HC. Likewise with HC trailing the middle three by so much.

If I were using a letter grade I'd go as follows..

Colgate 94% A
Fordham 88% B+
Lehigh 85% B
Lafayette 82 B-
Bucknell 80 B-
Holy Cross 75 C

[TheRevSFA]

I guess South Dakota beating Colgate keeps Lehigh from having the best grade in the PL?

Sorry LFN had to reference your signature

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The thing I don't understand with this years Patsy ratings are the disparity between the teams. I simply can't see Colgate's and Fordham's classes being THAT might better than LU,LC, BU and HC. Likewise with HC trailing the middle three by so much.

Insert "boilerplate for entertainment purposes only statement" here.

Something to think about, however: the "distance" between Lehigh between Colgate and Fordham largely, IMO, depends on your view of the local kids that are headed to Lehigh. For example, the one kid that reportedly took Lehigh over a UNH offer contributed exactly one point to the Patsy Ratings. Had he been starred by a national recruiting website he would have contributed significantly more. The same goes for the local QB who committed. Even more so.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I guess South Dakota beating Colgate keeps Lehigh from having the best grade in the PL?

Sorry LFN had to reference your signature

No matter how I cooked the numbers....

Seriously, the Patsy Ratings are their own formula. South Dakota - I think - had nothing to do with it. They just had almost everything to do with Lehigh being denied the playoffs last year.

[carney2]

If I were using a letter grade I'd go as follows..

Colgate 94% A
Fordham 88% B+
Lehigh 85% B
Lafayette 82 B-
Bucknell 80 B-
Holy Cross 75 C

Outrageous and rampant grade inflation. Try again, this time with some sort of grasp of reality.

[TheRevSFA]

No matter how I cooked the numbers....

Seriously, the Patsy Ratings are their own formula. South Dakota - I think - had nothing to do with it. They just had almost everything to do with Lehigh being denied the playoffs last year.

It's called sarcasm sir...sarcasm.

[RichH2]

Now Carney it is evident that none at Lehigh would ever stoop to grade inflation, as the Penn. State Courts ruled. Yup, that's my story and I'm stickin to it.. Owl nice grades, noticed no C+ grade so guess cant sue you.

[van]

My only "complaint" is the lack of RB. It's good to have one, just because...



Tend to agree it's good to have a RB in every class, but with two talented RBs in last class, as well as several solid upperclassmen, not much of a need. Suspect that with the smaller classes we now expect, the ability to recruit a position "just because" may be a thing of the past.

[RichH2]

Would be a nice luxury this yr. Brown and Kee are very good..Sherman and Sodeke solid. A sr,jr an 2 sophs. Expect a much more balanced O next yr. Not a big play O like this yr. Front 7 must be our concern.

[Kramer]

I feel pretty good about this recruiting class. I think the DL from FL will be a real player. I also like Caslow and Shafnisky. We also picked up some talent at OL and FB. Overall, I think we did just fine.

[RichH2]

Heh,heh wondered how long it would take you to post. I agree placing a good amount of trust in Andy's ability to judge talent. Think the recruit from Ill. will fill the NG spot eventually. Harvey and Kauffman are potentially as good or better than any we've had in a while

[ngineer]

I spent some time speaking with Chagani Saturday night he was very high on the return lettermen on the DL. While not 'as wide' a body as he, in his view they are quicker, plus should put on a few more lbs over the off-season. I think a few of our recruits are under the radar, i.e. Shafinsky and Freedom LB (brain freeze on name at the moment). Andy covered the bases that needed to be covered. I'll take a 'B'..and not have to sue.

[RichH2]

Kauffman. Nick , a wild card. Reminds me of Borda. Bigger but same type of athlete. He has the arm and can run. A necessity in today's football. Sajd referring to Gyles and Layton, latter a converted OLB. Very active , nice for pass rush not so much for run stopping. We'll see.

[heath]

I thought the next DL star was going to be that Newton brother ???????????

[Engineer86]

I thought the next DL star was going to be that Newton brother ???????????

He is good, but I think they are talking about a large run stuffer in the middle which I would not expect Newton to be.

[RichH2]

Newton is excellent as a DE. Replacing Chagani is the necessity.

[ngineer]

Newton is excellent as a DE. Replacing Chagani is the necessity.

Yes, Newton can be a very, very good DE. I'm wondering if we go back to a 4-3?

[RichH2]

Perhaps for some situations but we have and contnue to recruit LBs. We are built now for 3-4. Heck, we have enuf good ones to go to a 2-7-2 D.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You don't need a monster in the middle but you can't get by with a 250 NG either. I'm pretty sure Chagani's listed weight was close to 290 which was obviously a stretch. He was more in the 270 range imo.

I can't help but think someone during the course of the season is going to exploit the potential weakness up the middle. Who was the small NG in 2006 when Lafayette went crazy? He was a good player but was completely overmatched by the 'Pards big, physical oline.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Perhaps for some situations but we have and contnue to recruit LBs. We are built now for 3-4. Heck, we have enuf good ones to go to a 2-7-2 D.

Looking at the fall roster there is some size but it's mostly in height. Class listed is based on next year...

Grossnickle Jr. 6'3 255
Gyles Jr. 6'4 260
****z Sr. 6'3 255
Layton Sr. 6'4 260
Molinari So. 6'4 260
Newton Jr. 6'5 240
Palma So. 6'3 240
Remington Jr. 6'4 255

If I'm Coen I consider switching an OL over to DL. There is an abundance of talent on the OL so losing someone burdied on the depth chart won't create any issues imo.

[RichH2]

Owl, Manganiello may be stopgap. Very tough athletic kid. Needs 20 lbs. Would be nice to have a NG built like Owens but we dont.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Looking at the fall roster there is some size but it's mostly in height. Class listed is based on next year...

Grossnickle Jr. 6'3 255
Gyles Jr. 6'4 260
****z Sr. 6'3 255
Layton Sr. 6'4 260
Molinari So. 6'4 260
Newton Jr. 6'5 240
Palma So. 6'3 240
Remington Jr. 6'4 255

If I'm Coen I consider switching an OL over to DL. There is an abundance of talent on the OL so losing someone burdied on the depth chart won't create any issues imo.

Gyles, Remington, Newton all will be in the mix on the DL rotation IMO. Gyles will likely be a DT/NG if I had to guess and might be the starter.

Always thought of Layton as a DE but he might work also as a DT as well.

What's clear is Lehigh fans are hoping those DL hit the weight room hard this offseason.

[van]

move to a 4-3 might be the best option for the DL, but maybe not for the D overall, but the again what do I know.

[heath]

move to a 4-3 might be the best option for the DL, but maybe not for the D overall, but the again what do I know.

3-5-3 would be the best,but DC's will stay the same pathxnodx4-3, 5-2, etc- No matter what a coach calls it, the same starting 11 are on the fieldxthumbsupx

[carney2]

Squawk 1: "I really like this class."

Squawk 2: "I agree. Great group."

Squawk 3: "I can't wait to see Schmidlap in action."

And on it goes.

Hey Squawks, bend over, reach down between your legs and pull your heads out. This is not scholarship recruiting and you didn't do well. Smell the coffe instead of the other brown stuff.

[Lehigh'98]

Squawk 1: "I really like this class."

Squawk 2: "I agree. Great group."

Squawk 3: "I can't wait to see Schmidlap in action."

And on it goes.

Hey Squawks, bend over, reach down between your legs and pull your heads out. This is not scholarship recruiting and you didn't do well. Smell the coffe instead of the other brown stuff.


How the hell would you even know? Have you watched films on all of them? Judging recruiting classes is pointless until you see them on the field, no one knows. All we know for sure is Gtown will probably be last.

[RichH2]

Valid points by both gentlemen, but Carney a bit off track as all fans look for best of their recruits including Pards. You would swear that their QB recruit is the 2nd coming of Eli Manning. Annoying perhaps to fans of other teams but so what now is when we all hope for the best.

[CFBfan]

does anyone have their spring schedules yet??

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Valid points by both gentlemen, but Carney a bit off track as all fans look for best of their recruits including Pards. You would swear that their QB recruit is the 2nd coming of Eli Manning. Annoying perhaps to fans of other teams but so what now is when we all hope for the best.

I think the disparity between teams is the biggest "?" with this years rankings. If you really think Colgate's and Fordham's recruiting classes were that much better than LU, BU and LC you're wrong imo. Same with HC's class looking THAT bad compared to everyone else.

I can definitively say that Colgate has the best class on paper and HC needs work to do. That much can be surmised without Patsy Points. I honestly think LU, LC and BU all did well.

[CFBfan]

I think the disparity between teams is the biggest "?" with this years rankings. If you really think Colgate's and Fordham's recruiting classes were that much better than LU, BU and LC you're wrong imo. Same with HC's class looking THAT bad compared to everyone else.

I can definitively say that Colgate has the best class on paper and HC needs work to do. That much can be surmised without Patsy Points. I honestly think LU, LC and BU all did well.

so given the same data the "committee" had, what are your ratings??

[RichH2]

The fact that Gate and Rams may have best classes does not mandate that any other class is bad. IMO all have done better than last yr. Cross may lag as Gilmore not given 15 by school but still some good OL and most important speed.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

so given the same data the "committee" had, what are your ratings??

I listed them on another thread. I'm not trying to turn this into a LFN vs Owly rankings war. I think LFN's rankings are legit. The disparity between teams is what I think is "off".

[TheRevSFA]

Looking at the fall roster there is some size but it's mostly in height. Class listed is based on next year...

Grossnickle Jr. 6'3 255
Gyles Jr. 6'4 260
****z Sr. 6'3 255
Layton Sr. 6'4 260
Molinari So. 6'4 260
Newton Jr. 6'5 240
Palma So. 6'3 240
Remington Jr. 6'4 255

If I'm Coen I consider switching an OL over to DL. There is an abundance of talent on the OL so losing someone burdied on the depth chart won't create any issues imo.

??? Damn you filter

[RichH2]

Caught that eh, Rev. Poor guy. His name will never be on AGS. A Ralph remnant I guess.

[Kramer]

Thanks to Carney for filling in for Pard4Life. Now that we have the requisite Lafayette venom, this thread is complete!

[BucBisonAtLarge]

does anyone have their spring schedules yet??

http://www.bucknellbison.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/022013aaa.html

[ngineer]

Moving a big OL to the DL is not unheard of. I would suspect there will be all sorts of experiments in the Spring. I do know that Kyle Moore has been moved to be the new center. He had a very good first year at LT as a sophomore and is also very bright, so lots of confidence being shown in his ability to call the blocking schemes up front.

[RichH2]

Hope, Lippy is 100% this season. If so a deep and good OL. Now ,if we have a Qb?

[ngineer]

Hope, Lippy is 100% this season. If so a deep and good OL. Now ,if we have a Qb?

No question everyone is counting on a healthy Lippy next year. In talking with Chick, the QB competition appears to be wide open. BB knows the O the best and an accurate arm, though not a cannon. He puts his arm in the "Lum" category. Also seems to be high on McHale coming on strong and is salivating over what Shafinsky will be bringing to the table due to his ability to run with a strong arm. The B&W game will be very interesting.

[van]

Hope, Lippy is 100% this season. If so a deep and good OL. Now ,if we have a Qb?

+1 to that

[carney2]

Thanks to Carney for filling in for Pard4Life. Now that we have the requisite Lafayette venom, this thread is complete!

So far into dreamland that a reality check is "venom." I repeat, this is NOT scholarship recruiting. Not a problem for you because 4 of your League peers (assuming Georgetown out of habit) were equally incompetent or, in at least two cases, worse. Stop the back slapping nonsense and look at what you (and the others) got. For the most part (not every case) we gave scholarships to the same types of players we got in other years without scholarships. Is this what you expected? Is this what the scholarship brouhaha was all about? I didn't think so. With 5 out of 7 screwing the pooch so badly here, let's call it growing pains and move on. If it happens again heads need to roll.

[RichH2]

Optimism doesn.t always translate into reality, but Patsy not all that connected to future reality. Now is last time any of us can be just rosy w/o the harsh light of next yr or the yr after for these kids.
IMO we definitely got 3OL,1QB,1FB,1DB & 3LB, we would not have gotten last yr. Is that good? Dont know. No comparables yet. Always want more but not unhappy with class.

[ngineer]

Optimism doesn.t always translate into reality, but Patsy not all that connected to future reality. Now is last time any of us can be just rosy w/o the harsh light of next yr or the yr after for these kids.
IMO we definitely got 3OL,1QB,1FB,1DB & 3LB, we would not have gotten last yr. Is that good? Dont know. No comparables yet. Always want more but not unhappy with class.

No question we are getting a half-dozen players that in prior years would have gone to UNH, Temple, South FL, Wm& Mary, etc. That does not mean they will turn out to be better than whoever was behind them on our list? Not necessarily, but the odds are that over the next four years the overall quality of the team should be improved.

[RichH2]

No question we are getting a half-dozen players that in prior years would have gone to UNH, Temple, South FL, Wm& Mary, etc. That does not mean they will turn out to be better than whoever was behind them on our list? Not necessarily, but the odds are that over the next four years the overall quality of the team should be improved.

+1

[Kramer]

Carney, I wasn't referring to my being overly optimistic. I probably am being too optimistic. I defer to your judgment as to whether this class is any better than what came during the non-scholarship era. I was only referring to your last sentence. I apologize for not being clearer. My bad.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

So far into dreamland that a reality check is "venom." I repeat, this is NOT scholarship recruiting. Not a problem for you because 4 of your League peers (assuming Georgetown out of habit) were equally incompetent or, in at least two cases, worse. Stop the back slapping nonsense and look at what you (and the others) got. For the most part (not every case) we gave scholarships to the same types of players we got in other years without scholarships. Is this what you expected? Is this what the scholarship brouhaha was all about? I didn't think so. With 5 out of 7 screwing the pooch so badly here, let's call it growing pains and move on. If it happens again heads need to roll.

+1

There is a surfeit of happy-clappy groupthink about Year 1 in this thread.

[ngineer]

I like 'happy-clappy' so long as the 'clappy' is attributable only to the hands....(;-)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I will repeat for those who might have missed it: Your view of Lehigh's incoming class depends almost entirely on your view of the two local kids. If you think Lehigh stole them from the CAA or FBS schools (even though it wasn't recognized as such by the big recruiting websites), you're on Cloud 9. If you think, meh, then you think Lehigh's whole recruiting class was meh.

Lehigh's incoming QB's mission is real easy: Prove he's better than the two ** QBs signed by Fordham and Colgate. Can he? I have no idea. I'll be excited over the next four years to see if he can.

[Engineer86]

I will repeat for those who might have missed it: Your view of Lehigh's incoming class depends almost entirely on your view of the two local kids. If you think Lehigh stole them from the CAA or FBS schools (even though it wasn't recognized as such by the big recruiting websites), you're on Cloud 9. If you think, meh, then you think Lehigh's whole recruiting class was meh.

Lehigh's incoming QB's mission is real easy: Prove he's better than the two ** QBs signed by Fordham and Colgate. Can he? I have no idea. I'll be excited over the next four years to see if he can.

Then I must be high on the class, because, I do expect the LB from Freedom to be a stud on the field.

[RichH2]

A bit too far to the "realism" side LFN. Stars are great and both those kids look very good on film. We all can recite **QBs in the PL who were not stars on the field. Either way they may be good does not follow that Nick w no stars cannot be better. Lum beat out two 2 ** QBs to star.

[Doc QB]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1942099]I will repeat for those who might have missed it: Your view of Lehigh's incoming class depends almost entirely on your view of the two local kids. If you think Lehigh stole them from the CAA or FBS schools (even though it wasn't recognized as such by the big recruiting websites), you're on Cloud 9. If you think, meh, then you think Lehigh's whole recruiting class was meh.QUOTE]

I said this in another thread and it was ignored...a very good barometer of an athlete's "worth" is where they took their five NCAA allowed official, paid-for recruiting visits. And even these are not always indicative of a scholarship offer, as schools will "trip" guys they have as their second tier. Coaches may make mistakes in evaluating talent, but who had scholarship offers, and where the had them, is an initial solid litmus test as to a 'relative' value that is missing from the Patsy's.

But that info, if available, does tell one what multiple coaches thought of a young athlete's talents and value to their program. Those head to heads become meaningful. Did Shafnisky and the Freedom LB have multiple CAA offers or just UNH? What did the other LU recruits have as options? Did all of these great Colgate recruits have multiple CAA offers? Did Fordham's? Would love to know.

And looking at the film, LU got some players. Improvement or not over other years, it will be fun to watch them and the PL as a whole.

[Fordham]

So far into dreamland that a reality check is "venom." I repeat, this is NOT scholarship recruiting. Not a problem for you because 4 of your League peers (assuming Georgetown out of habit) were equally incompetent or, in at least two cases, worse. Stop the back slapping nonsense and look at what you (and the others) got. For the most part (not every case) we gave scholarships to the same types of players we got in other years without scholarships. Is this what you expected? Is this what the scholarship brouhaha was all about? I didn't think so. With 5 out of 7 screwing the pooch so badly here, let's call it growing pains and move on. If it happens again heads need to roll.
I don't know the answer but I'm wondering how you know that this group is pretty much the same as you would have had without scholarships?

Also wonder what your expectations are for what a PL scholarship class should look like

[PAllen]

I don't know the answer but I'm wondering how you know that this group is pretty much the same as you would have had without scholarships?

Also wonder what your expectations are for what a PL scholarship class should look like

http://www.nwsportsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/2012-NFC-Pro-Bowl-team.jpg

Ladies and Gentlemen: Your 2013 Pro Bowl..errr.. I mean Lafayette Recruiting Class. ;)

[Fordham]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2012-2013&workout=THREE_CONE_DRILL&position=WR

#7

xthumbsupx

[RichH2]

Thanks.Fordham. Good for PL to get a couple more into NFL.

[CFBfan]

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers#year=2012-2013&workout=THREE_CONE_DRILL&position=WR

#7

xthumbsupx

saw him on the nfl network, he looked very good!

[van]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1942099]I will repeat for those who might have missed it: Your view of Lehigh's incoming class depends almost entirely on your view of the two local kids. If you think Lehigh stole them from the CAA or FBS schools (even though it wasn't recognized as such by the big recruiting websites), you're on Cloud 9. If you think, meh, then you think Lehigh's whole recruiting class was meh.QUOTE]

I said this in another thread and it was ignored...a very good barometer of an athlete's "worth" is where they took their five NCAA allowed official, paid-for recruiting visits. And even these are not always indicative of a scholarship offer, as schools will "trip" guys they have as their second tier. Coaches may make mistakes in evaluating talent, but who had scholarship offers, and where the had them, is an initial solid litmus test as to a 'relative' value that is missing from the Patsy's.

But that info, if available, does tell one what multiple coaches thought of a young athlete's talents and value to their program. Those head to heads become meaningful. Did Shafnisky and the Freedom LB have multiple CAA offers or just UNH? What did the other LU recruits have as options? Did all of these great Colgate recruits have multiple CAA offers? Did Fordham's? Would love to know.

And looking at the film, LU got some players. Improvement or not over other years, it will be fun to watch them and the PL as a whole.

One thing about Shafnisky, I believe he verballed to Lehigh pretty early, which may have turned some recruiting away.

[ngineer]

saw him on the nfl network, he looked very good!

Lehigh website has a write up on his performance. Looks promising.