Montana St. buys out NDSU road trip this fall...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

There are a few different scenarios out there. I like the idea of Liberty home/home. But looking at open dates out there, it's conceivable that NDSU could have 3 HBCU's on the OOC schedule. Offer Missippippi Valley a money game, sign JSU to home/home with NDSU traveling there this year on Nov 2nd. JSU only has 5 true home games this year. The return date could be the year NDSU travels to Montana.

I would be more inclined to offer UNC a H&H. They have 7 home games already this year so it would be easy to get them in Fargo this year. They are also an old conference mate who always played the Bison tough. They are also a resonable trip for Bison fans who choose to go, many of whom live in the central/western United States.

An intangible would be UNC's desire to prove to the Big Sky that they want to make games that increases the conference's reputation.

[aces1180]

I would be more inclined to offer UNC a H&H. They have 7 home games already this year so it would be easy to get them in Fargo this year. They are also an old conference mate who always played the Bison tough. They are also a resonable trip for Bison fans who choose to go, many of whom live in the central/western United States.

An intangible would be UNC's desire to prove to the Big Sky that they want to make games that increases the conference's reputation.

I like this idea...I actually would like to play all of our former GWFC foes who are now in the BSC in the next couple years...UNC, Poly, Davis and SUU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

-
It's all about getting home playoff games

A loss to a FBS sometimes doesn't even drop you in the polls but a loss to a FCS team can drop you many spots and that may be hard to make up if you want a high seed

I wholeheartedly agree that FBS losses, especially "close losses", seem to be more of a positive consideration come playoff time than actual wins against FCS teams.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Incidentally I'm just sad that Lehigh doesn't have common open dates except the late one. If Lehigh adds a 12th game, which seems unlikely, it would be the 8/31 weekend. Ironically, Montana State has an opening on that day.

[Green1]

Just heard this via Facebook:

"Montana State Athletic Director Peter Fields joins The Jack Michaels Show today at noon on why they bought out their upcoming game with NDSU."

Link to stream radio show:

http://www.740thefan.com/

Should be interesting.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Wow. After reading Griz fans dissing MSU for buying out a game you would think that UM never ever did it.

Has the University of Montana ever bought out a game?

You seem to be working under the assumption that those Griz fans thought it was good? The case has been made by me that it was fairly necessary at the time and hasn't happened since but nobody liked it and it I don't remember it being done this close to the game.

[Silenoz]

My memory isn't working so well (and I even went to UM when this happened), but to the best I can remember; UM discovered an employee of the AD was embezzling funds. Dropping SDSU for ____ was a necessity to quickly work on making up that deficit.

Plus it's not like we didn't pay for that. Our untested undefeated team then promptly got a #3 seed and bounced by a much less talented Wofford team (no disrespect to Wofford, that was one of the most fun games to watch I've ever been to). Another road trip to a quality opponent might of made us a little less complacent

[AmsterBison]

You seem to be working under the assumption that those Griz fans thought it was good? The case has been made by me that it was fairly necessary at the time and hasn't happened since but nobody liked it and it I don't remember it being done this close to the game.

As an outsider, what bugged me about Montana's buyouts was that they were 2-for-1's. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Griz pulled that trick on both SDSU and Cal Poly.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

cats are pussies.................always have been always will be.


xcoffeex

[BisonBacker]

The Montana State AD is a pussy. Listening to him spew his shat in that interview. What a piece of Shat!

[CrazyCat]

What did you want him to say.

[BisonBacker]

What did you want him to say.

You are right expecting him to be truthful or have any integrity was clearly a stupid expectation on my part.

[AmsterBison]

What did you want him to say.

Honestly, he'd have been better off not going on the radio at all. "It happens a lot so that makes it right for me to do it" sounds like an argument I made to my parents when I was five... and then never made again.

Probably be a podcast later so you can make your own judgement.

[CrazyCat]

You are right expecting him to be truthful or have any integrity was clearly a stupid expectation on my part.

O.K. I'm sure you know the truth.

[TheRevSFA]

You are right expecting him to be truthful or have any integrity was clearly a stupid expectation on my part.

The only truth you'd want him to say is "we are scared to face NDSU". All other reasoning would be considered as pussy lies to you.

[aces1180]

I'm so glad he isn't our AD...What a joke.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

As an outsider, what bugged me about Montana's buyouts was that they were 2-for-1's. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Griz pulled that on both SDSU and Cal Poly.

Yes, we did this already on another thread didn't we? We gave Cal Poly a 3-2 in the next contract to make up for it. For whatever reason SDSU ended there. Keep being bothered if you'd like. There are circumstances where a school has to do these things and we were in that spot whether you understand or accept it doesn't mean too much. It sucked but I can live with the actions of the former AD getting hooked for mismanagement of the budget and the interim one having tough decisions to make.

[aces1180]

The only truth you'd want him to say is "we are scared to face NDSU". All other reasoning would be considered as pussy lies to you.

He acted as if he didn't care that he left NDSU hanging...I could care less if they don't want to play NDSU...He left the Bison in a tough spot because of the time table. That's MY biggest beef.

[citdog]

He acted as if he didn't care that he left NDSU hanging...I could care less if they don't want to play NDSU...He left the Bison in a tough spot because of the time table. That's MY biggest beef.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Dg6DpEAscU

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He didn't come off very well considering the audience he was talking to but I think he was truthful in as far as he went however I don't know how things have changed at MSU since the time they signed this thing so him saying "You're looking at it from NDSU's side and I'm looking at it from MSU's side" just seems a little simple and maybe should have lightened up on that as a reason.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

He acted as if he didn't care that he left NDSU hanging...I could care less if they don't want to play NDSU...He left the Bison in a tough spot because of the time table. That's MY biggest beef.

That's kind of the feeling he put forth even if it isn't how he actually feels.

[Green1]

Did I understand the M.S.U athletic director correctly when he stated that taking the S.M.U. game and dropping the N.D.S.U. game was "Revenue Neutral"? In other words, there is no extra income in scheduling S.M.U. ? Why do it then?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Did I understand the M.S.U athletic director correctly when he stated that taking the S.M.U. game and dropping the N.D.S.U. game was "Revenue Neutral"? In other words, there is no extra income in scheduling S.M.U. ? Why do it then?

I think he meant the costs involved with dropping the NDSU game AND paying a team for a home game wouldn't be more than what SMU is paying.

[CrazyCat]

He was basically in the same position that NDSU is in now. He had 2 choices. Screw the MSU fans or screw NDSU.

[TheRevSFA]

He acted as if he didn't care that he left NDSU hanging...I could care less if they don't want to play NDSU...He left the Bison in a tough spot because of the time table. That's MY biggest beef.

Yes but there are still teams putting together schedules and there are teams who will need games on either the 7th or 14th. I think you guys can make it happen.

[Green1]

I think he meant the costs involved with dropping the NDSU game AND paying a team for a home game wouldn't be more than what SMU is paying.


Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification!

[NoDak 4 Ever]

He was basically in the same position that NDSU is in now. He had 2 choices. Screw the MSU fans or screw NDSU.

From the comments, it appears the MSU fans feel pretty screwed.

[BisonFan02]

http://www.740thefan.com/upload/2-19peterfields.mp3

Direct link......I'm beyond the point of caring anymore. Screw em. Its too bad DMAC will never get a shot at NDSU again.

[FargoBison]

He was basically in the same position that NDSU is in now. He had 2 choices. Screw the MSU fans or screw NDSU.

Not really. He put himself in that position and then put NDSU in that position due to his incompetence.

[Green1]

From the comments, it appears the MSU fans feel pretty screwed.

Really, the M.S.U. fan and University are really the ones getting the shaft in the long run from their A.D. This is just a bump in the road for N.D.S.U. Mont. State has burned a bridge with a potential regional rival with a fervent fan base that would have ensured excellent ticket sales and viewership every time they played.

In the game of public perception, this was surely a loss for M.S.U. I wish all you Bobcat fans the best. Good luck. You will need it with your current A.D.

[Green1]

Not really. He put himself in that position and then put NDSU in that position due to his incompetence.

+1 TO THIS^^

[pike51]

Does this mean GSU doesn't have to come back for the playoffs? Sheesh that was a harsh punishment from the football gods!

[citdog]

Hey MSU if you don't like your current AD I hear Sam Baker is available.

[BisonFan02]

Does this mean GSU doesn't have to come back for the playoffs? Sheesh that was a harsh punishment from the football gods!

See ya in Frisco...we'll take MSU in the semis this time, if they can actually make it past the quarters.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

See ya in Frisco...we'll take MSU in the semis this time, if they can actually make it past the quarters.

I don't know. Part of me would love to see the GSU/SHSU combination again. Just to see if we can see Jeff Monken or Willie Fritz's head explode Scanners style.

[BisonFan02]

I don't know. Part of me would love to see the GSU/SHSU combination again. Just to see if we can see Jeff Monken or Willie Fritz's head explode Scanners style.

Regionalization anyone? :D

[citdog]

Regionalization anyone? :D


all that Southern Speed in one regional area would cause a polar shift.

[Green1]

all that Southern Speed in one regional area would cause a polar shift.


Nah, all the Northern Power Football in another region would balance it out. :)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I realized that I've spent so much time arguing that I haven't really addressed the OP. I don't hate nor even care about buyouts. Even if the money makes sense, the optics may not. Like I said earlier, I think MSU is giving up a good regional partner for a short term gain. Not good and will have long term consequences.

This is the second big opponent to buy out in the playoff era. Nobody can ever talk about NDSU's OOC SoS again.

[BisonFan02]

According to a Bobcat Beat writer, it looks like MSU is getting 300k from SMU....200k is going to Monmouth to open the season via a thursday night home game, the other 100k is the buyout. MSU is also scheduling a DII home game against Mesa State in September to round out the schedule......wow

[Go Bison]

According to a Bobcat Beat writer, it looks like MSU is getting 300k from SMU....200k is going to Monmouth to open the season via a thursday night home game, the other 100k is the buyout. MSU is also scheduling a DII home game against Mesa State in September to round out the schedule......wow

Do you have a link? Nevermind I see it now on twitter.

[Southern Bison]

It sure seemed like he tried to include the fans in the decision-making process - "our fans and fanbase, and when WE made the decision, not I"

[ursus arctos horribilis]

According to a Bobcat Beat writer, it looks like MSU is getting 300k from SMU....200k is going to Monmouth to open the season via a thursday night home game, the other 100k is the buyout. MSU is also scheduling a DII home game against Mesa State in September to round out the schedule......wow

MSU would probably clear close to 800K for those two games as it were so now they only upped the clearance by the 200K that will be paid to Monmouth so it really isn't a big chunk in comparison and I'm not sure what makes MSU need that extra 200K so badly but the budget must need the infusion to be taking a chance like this and enduring the heat of the decision.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

According to a Bobcat Beat writer, it looks like MSU is getting 300k from SMU....200k is going to Monmouth to open the season via a thursday night home game, the other 100k is the buyout. MSU is also scheduling a DII home game against Mesa State in September to round out the schedule......wow

Here's the real stick-in-the-eye moment in all of this: Mesa State isn't even the Bobcat's home opener anymore. They bought out the NDSU game and wouldn't buy out Mesa State.

The economics are hugely confusing to me. Clearly they're hoping for a huge gate against Mesa State. If they gave that up for a trip to NDSU (I'm assuming NDSU could shift the game a week)... is that actually better than buying out NDSU?

SMU game = $300K
Monmouth home game = -$200K + home game revenue
Mesa home game = -$50K (guess) + home game revenue
NDSU buyout -$100K

Had they shifted the game:

SMU game = $300K
Monmouth home game = -$200K + home game revenue
Mesa buyout = -$50K (guess)
NDSU game = $100K

So buying out Mesa and playing NDSU nets them $50K and minus one home game revenue.
Buying out NDSU and playing Mesa has them spend $50K to get one extra game of home revenue.

It sure doesn't seem like it's a huge revenue injection one way or another.

[Professor Chaos]

Another disgusting aspect of this whole bit is that pretty much every Montana St fan I've seen put their opinion out there is not happy with the decision yet the AD is making the rounds in the Fargo media saying that this move was "for the fans" so they could have 6 home games this year.

This doesn't pass the smell test at all and I still hold my assumption that if this game was scheduled after NDSU's 2009 (3-8) season with all other circumstances the same it would've been played as scheduled.

[CrazyCat]

Last years Thursday night opener set a record for attendance. DII must have changed their rules and will not play games in August this year according to Fields. So having Monmouth as the opener is huge gate revenue. Good or bad, scared or not, MSU needs 6 home games.


and no not many fans are happy about it but alot would have been even more upset with 5 home games.

[mgbison]

Gene and NDSU Should buy out the Monmouth and D2 game MSU has scheduled. NDSU could pay 250 for each game and tell MSU to deal with it. Its a business decision. But, I'd suppose the D2 school has a chance of beating MSU, not NDSU.

[Green1]

Last years Thursday night opener set a record for attendance. DII must have changed their rules and will not play games in August this year according to Fields. So having Monmouth as the opener is huge gate revenue. Good or bad, scared or not, MSU needs 6 home games.


and no not many fans are happy about it but alot would have been even more upset with 5 home games.


Don't you have an open date Sept. 14? Couldn't you have scheduled another home game then?

[CrazyCat]

Don't you have an open date Sept. 14? Couldn't you have scheduled another home game then?

That's the DII game

8/31 Monmouth
9/7 @ SMU
9/14 Mesa
9/21 @SFA

[BisonFan02]

That's the DII game

8/31 Monmouth
9/7 @ SMU
9/14 Mesa
9/21 @SFA

11 or 12 game schedule? That's gonna put you guys in a tough spot if you lose the SMU game.....that's as good as 2 losses (including the DII game) out of the gate as far as playoffs are concerned. With a good chunk of the FCS with 12 game schedules, you guys better hope you win the Big Sky.

[BisonFan02]

11 or 12 game schedule? That's gonna put you guys in a tough spot if you lose the SMU game.....that's as good as 2 losses (including the DII game) out of the gate as far as playoffs are concerned. With a good chunk of the FCS with 12 game schedules, you guys better hope you win the Big Sky.

Nevermind, I just checked and it is 12 games...

[CrazyCat]

11 or 12 game schedule? That's gonna put you guys in a tough spot if you lose the SMU game.....that's as good as 2 losses (including the DII game) out of the gate as far as playoffs are concerned. With a good chunk of the FCS with 12 game schedules, you guys better hope you win the Big Sky.

12 games( 8 conf.). During a normal 11 game season(except for last year) we usually played 1 FBS, 1 FCS, and 1 DII.

[BisonFan02]

12 games( 8 conf.). During a normal 11 game season(except for last year) we usually played 1 FBS, 1 FCS, and 1 DII.

Yup, I caught it right as I clicked post. Not sure I understand the DII game in 11 game seasons either, but I guess some cases you don't have a choice? That has bit a few teams in the behind as far as DI wins.

[catbob]

Really, the M.S.U. fan and University are really the ones getting the shaft in the long run from their A.D. This is just a bump in the road for N.D.S.U. Mont. State has burned a bridge with a potential regional rival with a fervent fan base that would have ensured excellent ticket sales and viewership every time they played.

In the game of public perception, this was surely a loss for M.S.U. I wish all you Bobcat fans the best. Good luck. You will need it with your current A.D.

I don't love our AD, but he has taken a program that was in a financial mess, pinched pennies and I believe the program actually turns a small income, or at least breaks even.

FCS teams don't have the luxury of scheduling however they see fit, because they have monetary restrictions. In a dream world, I'd have all our OOC games be against quality FCS teams. No DII, no FBS.

We have a stadium expansion to pay for. If cancelling NDSU nets us even $300k (and for an extra home game, it will far exceed that), then I can't argue with it. In a time when programs are being eliminated, you can't be too cautious.

I am incredibly bummed about it, I would have loved the matchup, and we need to play the best to be the best. But I'd rather have a financially stable program any day of the week.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Monmouth is coming to Bozeman?!?! Sweet!

I'll get an early scouting report for Lehigh's game with the beach hawks on 9/14.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I took the liberty of looking up Montana State's last game where they played a sub-D-I team that wasn't on opening weekend. In 2011 they played Minot State on Week 3 (9/17) and they got an attendance of 13,507.

For reference a few weeks later they played NAU and got 17,527.

13,000ish fans may net Montana State athletics more than $200K, I'm not sure (actually it would need to gross more than $250K, since they have to pay some guarantee for Mesa State as well which I'm assuming is in the area of 50K). At $30 a ticket (that was Montana States's playoff ticket price last season), 13K would be just about $400,000 in revenue, gross revenue without expenses, and minus revenues from concessions, gear, etc.

I guess it could be more than $200K profit against a D-II. But I think it's a lot closer than people think to $200K than a much higher number. And I'm still not totally sure it's that much.

[Professor Chaos]

I don't love our AD, but he has taken a program that was in a financial mess, pinched pennies and I believe the program actually turns a small income, or at least breaks even.

FCS teams don't have the luxury of scheduling however they see fit, because they have monetary restrictions. In a dream world, I'd have all our OOC games be against quality FCS teams. No DII, no FBS.

We have a stadium expansion to pay for. If cancelling NDSU nets us even $300k (and for an extra home game, it will far exceed that), then I can't argue with it. In a time when programs are being eliminated, you can't be too cautious.

I am incredibly bummed about it, I would have loved the matchup, and we need to play the best to be the best. But I'd rather have a financially stable program any day of the week.
The home game with Monmouth was happening regardless. This was a swap of NDSU for SMU. From what I've heard SMU is paying MSU $300K. Take away the $100K MSU paid NDSU to buy out and the costs MSU will incur to travel to Dallas for the game and that's the end net gain for MSU. Is it worth burning a bridge with NDSU? Apparently in the MSU AD's eyes it is.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The home game with Monmouth was happening regardless. This was a swap of NDSU for SMU. From what I've heard SMU is paying MSU $300K. Take away the $100K MSU paid NDSU to buy out and the costs MSU will incur to travel to Dallas for the game and that's the end net gain for MSU. Is it worth burning a bridge with NDSU? Apparently in the MSU AD's eyes it is.

This is the intangible. Just look at UND. Don't cross GT!

[bjtheflamesfan]

Told some of the boys from FF about the rumor of NDSU reaching out to Liberty to fill the 9/14 opening...any more word on that possibility Bison fans?

[AmsterBison]

Told some of the boys from FF about the rumor of NDSU reaching out to Liberty to fill the 9/14 opening...any more word on that possibility Bison fans?

NDSU's scheduling guy has called Liberty, but that's all I've heard. It's definitely one of the more intriguing possibilities out there.

Not sure many Bison fans would make it to Lynchburg but, hey, that's not always a bad thing (unless your business sells booze and/or booze-related products.) :)

[Twentysix]

I took the liberty of looking up Montana State's last game where they played a sub-D-I team that wasn't on opening weekend. In 2011 they played Minot State on Week 3 (9/17) and they got an attendance of 13,507.

For reference a few weeks later they played NAU and got 17,527.

13,000ish fans may net Montana State athletics more than $200K, I'm not sure (actually it would need to gross more than $250K, since they have to pay some guarantee for Mesa State as well which I'm assuming is in the area of 50K). At $30 a ticket (that was Montana States's playoff ticket price last season), 13K would be just about $400,000 in revenue, gross revenue without expenses, and minus revenues from concessions, gear, etc.

I guess it could be more than $200K profit against a D-II. But I think it's a lot closer than people think to $200K than a much higher number. And I'm still not totally sure it's that much.

Minus students, family, and the other teams tickets which are free/an athletic fee that doesn't change regardless of # of home games.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Certainly would be Amster. you and some of the Bison faithful are welcome to come over to FlameFans and shoot the breeze about it

[BisonFan02]

Told some of the boys from FF about the rumor of NDSU reaching out to Liberty to fill the 9/14 opening...any more word on that possibility Bison fans?

Echo what Amster has said....pretty quiet at this point. The only bits of note that I have heard (that I consider credible enough) is that a home/home with Northern Colorado is a possibility (outside of the Liberty phone calls).

[Southern Bison]

Certainly would be Amster. you and some of the Bison faithful are welcome to come over to FlameFans and shoot the breeze about it

Lynchburg's about 3 hrs away from Charlotte so there will be a small caravan of Bison faithful coming up I-77 & I-81.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Lynchburg's about 3 hrs away from Charlotte so there will be a small caravan of Bison faithful coming up I-77 & I-81.

Do we know what Liberty's need for home games is? A lot of problems seem to revolve around teams getting 6 home games. I think I only saw 4 or 5 on Liberty's schedule.