latest SoCon rumors have ETSU AND VMI coming back

[catamount man]

Take it for what it's worth. No link, just something I discovered third party. Apparently VMI reached out back to the SoCon and it's being mulled. Time to consider life support for the BIG SOUTH.

GO CATS!!!

[citdog]

Take it for what it's worth. No link, just something I discovered third party. Apparently VMI reached out back to the SoCon and it's being mulled. Time to consider life support for the BIG SOUTH.

GO CATS!!!

VMI should come back home. However, they will NEVER see this again.




http://romeocompany.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvershako.jpg

[grayghost06]

I would like to see VMI get back in the SoCon. Don't want them to become unable to compete w/ their historic rivals. They already gave up on the original Military Classic of the South back in the 80s. Hate to see them permanently drop the second incarnation of that game.

[ASUMountaineer]

VMI should come back home. However, they will NEVER see this again.




http://romeocompany.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvershako.jpg

Why is there a corn dog on the top of that hat?

[Sandlapper Spike]

Love that trophy...nothing better than the coveted Silver Shako.

ETSU and VMI were mentioned as potential candidates in the most recent Post and Courier article on expansion: Link (http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130130/PC20/130139979/1032/with-college-of-charleston-gone-and-maybe-more-leaving-socon-eyes-expansion)

[Apphole]

http://romeocompany.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvershako.jpg

The "I Wish I Went to Westpoint Trophy."

[fc97]

i'm hearing etsu, vmi and mercer.

[PaladinFan]

Truthfully, even with out App and GSU, that's a conference slate I will still enjoy.

[Sandlapper Spike]

The "I Wish I Went to Westpoint Trophy."

Uh, no.

And VMI, Mercer, and ETSU wouldn't be bad at all, though I'm not sure that's how it's going to go down.

For one thing, I would imagine ETSU will have to wait on an invite until its football situation is settled -- as in, it's officially coming back, complete with a new stadium guaranteed to be built sooner rather than later.

[ASUMountaineer]

Truthfully, even with out App and GSU, that's a conference slate I will still enjoy.

It would be a solid conference with those additions, IMO. If/when ASU leaves, I wish the best for the SoCon and will continue to follow the teams in the conference, as well as the FCS.

[kdinva]

It'll be coming back to Lex on 11/16/13...... xcoffeex


VMI should come back home. However, they will NEVER see this again.




http://romeocompany.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvershako.jpg

[kdinva]

i'm hearing etsu, vmi and mercer.

I can't get a peep from anyone in Lexington..............yet.

[PaladinFan]

It would be a solid conference with those additions, IMO. If/when ASU leaves, I wish the best for the SoCon and will continue to follow the teams in the conference, as well as the FCS.

I imagine that is the sentiment of most folks. We've all been in this together for a while.

[citdog]

I imagine that is the sentiment of most folks. We've all been in this together for a while.


Not me. I hope they both fail in a prairie view a&m type manner and they both decide to drop football and use their stadiums for gay pride rallies.

[ITmonarch10]

I wonder what the Big South will do if VMI leaves. They already have a hard enough time scheduling with stony brook leaving.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Take it for what it's worth. No link, just something I discovered third party. Apparently VMI reached out back to the SoCon and it's being mulled. Time to consider life support for the BIG SOUTH.

GO CATS!!!

If this is true, so much for that BFD being made about Monmouth taking Stony Brook's place in the Big South.

[PAllen]

If this is true, so much for that BFD being made about Monmouth taking Stony Brook's place in the Big South.

Monmouth to the SoCon!! You heard it here first.

(... and probably last.)

[GlassOnion]

http://romeocompany.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/silvershako.jpg

Wow, the resemblance to the Monopoly Top Hat is uncanny.

[kdinva]

I would like to see VMI get back in the SoCon........They already gave up on the original Military Classic of the South back in the 80s......

VMI and The Citadel played regularly from the '40's until 2004, also no game in 2008 - 2010. Started a 6-year series in 2011.

[ASUMountaineer]

I imagine that is the sentiment of most folks. We've all been in this together for a while.

Agreed.

[ASUMountaineer]

Not me. I hope they both fail in a prairie view a&m type manner and they both decide to drop football and use their stadiums for gay pride rallies.

You looking for a new place to hold your gay pride rallies besides Johnson Hagood? You could always just ask. We're usually done with the playoffs in December. You only need to wait a few weeks after Citadel's season is over and you may can use KBS for your gay pride (knob) rally(ies). xthumbsupx

[CID1990]

Wow, the resemblance to the Monopoly Top Hat is uncanny.

The resemblance to your mother's dildo would be even more uncanny, except that this one is about 5 sizes too small.

[DoWe]

The resemblance to your mother's dildo would be even more uncanny, except that this one is about 5 sizes too small.

I thought the very same thing until I came to my senses and realized it was more likely crafted to "appeal to the needs" of those competing for its company.

[GlassOnion]

What exactly is wrong with Citadel grads that they feel the constant need to turn a perfectly normal conversation obscene?

[citdog]

What exactly is wrong with Citadel that they feel the constant need to turn a perfectly normal conversation obscene?



http://bbsimg.ngfiles.com/1/7693000/ngbbs43cefbb708b2a.jpg

[grayghost06]

VMI and The Citadel played regularly from the '40's until 2004, also no game in 2008 - 2010. Started a 6-year series in 2011.

I was referring to the VPI-VMI game. My parents told me at one time, that was a bigger game in the state than the UVA-Tech game.

The Military Classic of the South
For years, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and Virginia Military Institute clashed in the “Military Classic of the South.” Both schools had corps of cadets and a budding rivalry by the time the series was moved to Roanoke in 1913. Beginning in 1921, the VPI-VMI game was played on Thanksgiving Day and it became the centerpiece of a gala affair.

The Tech Corps of Cadets would march from the train station to the Hotel Patrick Henry and the VMI Corps would march to the Hotel Roanoke. On game day, both corps would march to Victory Stadium. The teams were playing for pride and a 22-inch high Chamber of Commerce trophy.

The VPI-VMI series continued as a Thanksgiving Day treat through 1969. The teams made their last appearance in Victory Stadium on a Saturday in 1971 and continued on at other sites through 1984 before it became apparent the schools had a different emphasis on football.

Here's some cool footage from the 50s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTd_icyI0mg

[grayghost06]

and another video in a game the Keydets beat the Hokies in 1967:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYTZe71trv4

[CID1990]

What exactly is wrong with Citadel grads that they feel the constant need to turn a perfectly normal conversation obscene?

<----- he started it

[CID1990]

I thought the very same thing until I came to my senses and realized it was more likely crafted to "appeal to the needs" of those competing for its company.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/01/6emeduzu.jpg

[Franks Tanks]

I was referring to the VPI-VMI game. My parents told me at one time, that was a bigger game in the state than the UVA-Tech game.

The Military Classic of the South
For years, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and Virginia Military Institute clashed in the “Military Classic of the South.” Both schools had corps of cadets and a budding rivalry by the time the series was moved to Roanoke in 1913. Beginning in 1921, the VPI-VMI game was played on Thanksgiving Day and it became the centerpiece of a gala affair.

The Tech Corps of Cadets would march from the train station to the Hotel Patrick Henry and the VMI Corps would march to the Hotel Roanoke. On game day, both corps would march to Victory Stadium. The teams were playing for pride and a 22-inch high Chamber of Commerce trophy.

The VPI-VMI series continued as a Thanksgiving Day treat through 1969. The teams made their last appearance in Victory Stadium on a Saturday in 1971 and continued on at other sites through 1984 before it became apparent the schools had a different emphasis on football.

Here's some cool footage from the 50s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTd_icyI0mg

That is good stuff.

Ahh the good old days, when teams were rivals because the schools were close by and had a similar mission. Today we have a jumbled mis-mash.

Rather crazy to see how 2 schools who were once rivals now have a rift when it comes to the product on the field.

[DoWe]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/01/6emeduzu.jpg
Liked it did ya?

[seantaylor]

Socon is going to be equivalent to the Big South if GSU and Appy leave and ETSU and VMI replace us.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Socon is going to be equivalent to the Big South if GSU and Appy leave and ETSU and VMI replace us.

You'd like to think that but you'd be wrong. A loss, sure, but one that won't be thought about too much a couple years after it happens. Things will go right back to normal and other SoCon teams will step into the roles. It's just the way things are.

[CID1990]

Socon is going to be equivalent to the Big South if GSU and Appy leave and ETSU and VMI replace us.

You are nothing more than the Thundering Turd to us. The conference was fine before you arrived and will be fine after you leave.

[catamount man]

You are nothing more than the Thundering Turd to us. The conference was fine before you arrived and will be fine after you leave.

Amen. In fact, App State will be missed more than that bunch in Statesboro.

[CID1990]

Amen. In fact, App State will be missed more than that bunch in Statesboro.

Yeah I actually didn't even have ASU in mind.

[PaladinFan]

You are nothing more than the Thundering Turd to us. The conference was fine before you arrived and will be fine after you leave.

I agree with that. The SoCon is what, the fourth oldest college football conference in the country? It did fine before those schools arrive. Will do fine after they leave.

For the majority of us, we show up to our alma maters to see our team play, not the other guy. I really don't care if the team lined up on the other sideline is Georgia Southern or Samford. I pay my money to see my team play and watch quality football. That is not going anywhere. The SoCon is one of the premier FCS football conferences now, and it will still be later.

[Saint3333]

The SoCon will be fine no doubt.

But I must add while you pay to see your team place you do pay more to when App or GSU come to town and your administration will miss that.

[citdog]

The SoCon will be fine no doubt.

But I must add while you pay to see your team place you do pay more to when App or GSU come to town and your administration will miss that.


Funny....i pay the same for every game.

we'll be glad to see you go. the whiny little bitch numbers will go down by a factor of 10.

[Apphole]

I think reality falls somewhere between the wild extremes of SeanTaylor and the two obnoxiously jealous Cid fans.

When App and Stink leave, there WILL be a void in this conference; a void in average attendance, in strength of schedule, in playoff bids, in exposure, in fanship ect. I'd venture to say that half the fans of this conference are Eagle or Mountaineer faithful. These two schools account for 9 national championships and more SoCon championships than I care to compile over the past 20-30 years. Anyone that says "good riddance" is being petty, not rational.

Now this isn't to say that the SoCon is doomed once we move into our deluxe apartment in the sky. Adding ETSU and VMI could help the App/Stink hangover and I have little doubt that the SoCon's relative strength in the FCS will return to what it is today after a brief transition period by the new additions.

The SoCon will be fine eventually after leave, but let's not pretend it won't have strong negative impact in many ways, especially at the onset.

[ASUMountaineer]

Funny....i pay the same for every game.

we'll be glad to see you go. the whiny little bitch numbers will go down by a factor of 10.

Ehh...maybe like a factor of 3. You've only just recently inherited Chattown, and you know Chatty is here to stay.

[The Cats]

I think reality falls somewhere between the wild extremes of SeanTaylor and the two obnoxiously jealous Cid fans.

When App and Stink leave, there WILL be a void in this conference; a void in average attendance, in strength of schedule, in playoff bids, in exposure, in fanship ect. I'd venture to say that half the fans of this conference are Eagle or Mountaineer faithful. These two schools account for 9 national championships and more SoCon championships than I care to compile over the past 20-30 years. Anyone that says "good riddance" is being petty, not rational.

Now this isn't to say that the SoCon is doomed once we move into our deluxe apartment in the sky. Adding ETSU and VMI could help the App/Stink hangover and I have little doubt that the SoCon's relative strength in the FCS will return to what it is today after a brief transition period by the new additions.

The SoCon will be fine eventually after leave, but let's not pretend it won't have strong negative impact in many ways, especially at the onset.

I can't believe I agree with you on this one. But, I do.

Except - I hope it's not VMI, KSU would be a much better pick.

VMI is not competitive in the Big South, while it might help get WCU out of the football cellar, it won't be much help to the SoCon.

VMI Football
Big South ------- Overall
YEAR W L PCT ---W L PCT COACH
2003 2 2 .500 ---6 6 .500 Cal McCombs
2004 0 4 .000 ---0 11 .000 Cal McCombs
2005 2 2 .500 ---3 8 .273 Cal McCombs (9-25, 4-8)
2006 0 4 .000 ---1 10 .091 Jim Reid
2007 0 4 .000 ---2 9 .182 Jim Reid (3-19, 0-8)
2008 1 4 .200 ---4 7 .364 Sparky Woods
2009 1 5 .167 ---2 9 .182 Sparky Woods
2010 2 4 .333 ---3 8 .273 Sparky Woods
2011 2 4 .333 ---2 9 .182 Sparky Woods (11-33, 6-17)
TOTALS 10 33 .233 ---23 77 .230


ETSU xthumbsupx

[Apphole]

I can't believe I agree with you on this one. But, I do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20B4Dvk_9cY

[PaladinFan]

I think reality falls somewhere between the wild extremes of SeanTaylor and the two obnoxiously jealous Cid fans.

When App and Stink leave, there WILL be a void in this conference; a void in average attendance, in strength of schedule, in playoff bids, in exposure, in fanship ect. I'd venture to say that half the fans of this conference are Eagle or Mountaineer faithful. These two schools account for 9 national championships and more SoCon championships than I care to compile over the past 20-30 years. Anyone that says "good riddance" is being petty, not rational.

Now this isn't to say that the SoCon is doomed once we move into our deluxe apartment in the sky. Adding ETSU and VMI could help the App/Stink hangover and I have little doubt that the SoCon's relative strength in the FCS will return to what it is today after a brief transition period by the new additions.

The SoCon will be fine eventually after leave, but let's not pretend it won't have strong negative impact in many ways, especially at the onset.

The void you are referencing is an introspective thing. You think the rest of the conference cares as much about App State as App State fans do. They don't.

Here's a prime example. Last season, Furman played Wofford and App State in Greenville over the course of three games. The attendance for the Wofford game was 11,716. The attendance for the App State game was 12,856. So maybe a thousand more folks to see App State - a school over ten times the size of Wofford.

So, here you have two top five programs at home. Nearly as many folks showed up to see Furman play Wofford as they did to see them play App State. It is nonsense and contrary to fact to assume that the absence of App or GSU creates a void in Furman's attendance. It just doesn't.

[ASUMountaineer]

The void you are referencing is an introspective thing. You think the rest of the conference cares as much about App State as App State fans do. They don't.

Here's a prime example. Last season, Furman played Wofford and App State in Greenville over the course of three games. The attendance for the Wofford game was 11,716. The attendance for the App State game was 12,856. So maybe a thousand more folks to see App State - a school over ten times the size of Wofford.

So, here you have two top five programs at home. Nearly as many folks showed up to see Furman play Wofford as they did to see them play App State. It is nonsense and contrary to fact to assume that the absence of App or GSU creates a void in Furman's attendance. It just doesn't.

We played FUrman in Boone last season--or are you referring to 2011?

[GlassOnion]

The void you are referencing is an introspective thing. You think the rest of the conference cares as much about App State as App State fans do. They don't.

Here's a prime example. Last season, Furman played Wofford and App State in Greenville over the course of three games. The attendance for the Wofford game was 11,716. The attendance for the App State game was 12,856. So maybe a thousand more folks to see App State - a school over ten times the size of Wofford.

So, here you have two top five programs at home. Nearly as many folks showed up to see Furman play Wofford as they did to see them play App State. It is nonsense and contrary to fact to assume that the absence of App or GSU creates a void in Furman's attendance. It just doesn't.

When App travels, they consistantly draw larger crowds tha Furman does, as you pointed out. Samford drew 6712 against Furman, and 9712 against App. Whats that, about a $60,000 difference in gate?

Add the loss of GSU's attendance draw to App's, and Socon schools will see their income shrink. Try replacing App and GSU with schools that draw less than schools like FU, less name recognition, less success, and it shrinks even further.

Not having App and GSU in the Socon could cost some socon teams hundreds of thousands of dollars a season..

[Apphole]

The void you are referencing is an introspective thing. You think the rest of the conference cares as much about App State as App State fans do. They don't.

Here's a prime example. Last season, Furman played Wofford and App State in Greenville over the course of three games. The attendance for the Wofford game was 11,716. The attendance for the App State game was 12,856. So maybe a thousand more folks to see App State - a school over ten times the size of Wofford.

So, here you have two top five programs at home. Nearly as many folks showed up to see Furman play Wofford as they did to see them play App State. It is nonsense and contrary to fact to assume that the absence of App or GSU creates a void in Furman's attendance. It just doesn't.

You think everyone in this forum cares about Furple's home attendence, they don't.

Look man, when you take the 29,000 and the 23,000 from an average that includes 8 and 9,000's, you are going to have an impact on the conference's attendance/perception. There has been three schools in the SoCon that rarely if ever leave the top 25. You think that when two of those schools are suddenly gone that Furple or someone else will magically float to the top all of the sudden? You're in denial, man.

Like I said, the conference will eventually be just fine, but you some of you are just plain jaded and you refuse to look at this rationally. There WILL be a negative impact in several different facets that I've already mentioned (you only cared to try and rebuke one of them, and did a pretty poor job I must say). It will take a long time for another SoCon program to reach a level that App and Georgia Southern have and even longer to fill the void of two programs that are top 3-5 nationally.

[Saint3333]

Funny....i pay the same for every game.

we'll be glad to see you go. the whiny little bitch numbers will go down by a factor of 10.

2013 Single-Season Ticket Information
**Single-game tickets go on sale July 15, 2013**

Home Games
Date Opponent Premium Standard Gen Adm.
Aug. 31
Charleston Southern $30 $25 $15
Sept. 7
Wofford $30 $25 $15
Sept. 28 Furman
$30 $25 $15
Oct. 5
Appalachian State (Parents Day) $35 $30 $30
Nov. 2 Samford (Homecoming) $35 $30 $30
Nov. 16 VMI (Hall of Fame Day) $35 $30 $30
Games 1-3
Child/Student/Faculty/Staff* $25 $10 $10
Games 4-6 Child/Student/Faculty/Staff* $30 $10 $10

[asumike83]

Here's a prime example. Last season, Furman played Wofford and App State in Greenville over the course of three games. The attendance for the Wofford game was 11,716. The attendance for the App State game was 12,856. So maybe a thousand more folks to see App State - a school over ten times the size of Wofford.

So, here you have two top five programs at home. Nearly as many folks showed up to see Furman play Wofford as they did to see them play App State. It is nonsense and contrary to fact to assume that the absence of App or GSU creates a void in Furman's attendance. It just doesn't.

While I'm not saying that having strong attendance is contingent on App/GSU staying around by any means, that is not a great example. Along with Wofford only being a 30-minute drive from Furman, it was also Homecoming.

There were 12,586 there when Furman upset App. The next week, Furman played Elon in their final home game of the year and a win would have likely locked up a playoff bid. Attendance was 9,457. That is a 25% decrease from one week to the next in a game that would decide Furman's playoff fate. It would also be contrary to assume that the interest Furman fans have in the rivalry and the fans that ASU brought to Greenville played no role in that.

The SoCon will be fine if ASU/GSU leave. A few programs will separate themselves from the pack, rivalries will continue and the conference will remain a major player in FCS football but there will be an adjustment period. There has been one season (2003) in the last 16 years that ASU or GSU did not win at least a share of the conference. That is not replaced overnight.

[dbackjon]

Not me. I hope they both fail in a prairie view a&m type manner and they both decide to drop football and use their stadiums for gay pride rallies.

See ya there!

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Amen. In fact, App State will be missed more than that bunch in Statesboro.

Why? Will you miss winning the mountain jug once every 20 years? I assume you are not talking value to the conference.

GSU has more combined championships in the big 3 sports than App. has and that is with them being in the league about 15 years longer. When you look over the last 20 years at the two teams that have dominated football conference titles and the two teams that have dominated baseball tournament championships there is only one school common to both of those lists.

[Sandlapper Spike]

2013 Single-Season Ticket Information
**Single-game tickets go on sale July 15, 2013**

Home Games
Date Opponent Premium Standard Gen Adm.
Aug. 31
Charleston Southern $30 $25 $15
Sept. 7
Wofford $30 $25 $15
Sept. 28 Furman
$30 $25 $15
Oct. 5
Appalachian State (Parents Day) $35 $30 $30
Nov. 2 Samford (Homecoming) $35 $30 $30
Nov. 16 VMI (Hall of Fame Day) $35 $30 $30
Games 1-3
Child/Student/Faculty/Staff* $25 $10 $10
Games 4-6 Child/Student/Faculty/Staff* $30 $10 $10

Parents' Day and Homecoming single-game tickets cost more, regardless of opponent.

[Apphole]

Why? Will you miss winning the mountain jug once every 20 years? I assume you are not talking value to the conference.

GSU has more combined championships in the big 3 sports than App. has and that is with them being in the league about 15 years longer. When you look over the last 20 years at the two teams that have dominated football conference titles and the two teams that have dominated baseball tournament championships there is only one school common to both of those lists.

You guys won 6, sure, but as far as the last two decades, ASU has outperformed Georgia Southern in football overall. We could probably call it a wash since you have twice as many NC's but we got ours 5 years ago instead of 23 years ago.

Where I think App football becomes more valuable is the intangibles: 1/3 more fans, better facilites ect.

App is just now becoming a baseball power, so we definitely fall short there. But being at the top of the conference in most every sport year-in year-out and winning the commissioners up every single year for 30+ years pretty much solidifies which school is carrying the most athletic prestige from the SoCon.

Definitely the two most valuable athletic departments in the conference though. No question.

[fc97]

people think that when they leave anywhere that their leaving will be missed. seniors do this when they graduate high school. people do it when they leave companies. it's human nature.

however, reality sinks in with the fact that typically things are fine after they leave. the socon was fine when marshall left. the big south was fine when elon left. the socon will be fine when charleston leaves. and the socon will be fine when app and gsu leaves.

[GlassOnion]

people think that when they leave anywhere that their leaving will be missed. seniors do this when they graduate high school. people do it when they leave companies. it's human nature.

however, reality sinks in with the fact that typically things are fine after they leave. the socon was fine when marshall left. the big south was fine when elon left. the socon will be fine when charleston leaves. and the socon will be fine when app and gsu leaves.

If they had some decent leadership. Good luck riding the tidal wave of change with Imarino. xlolx

[boonegoon]

Why? Will you miss winning the mountain jug once every 20 years? I assume you are not talking value to the conference.

GSU has more combined championships in the big 3 sports than App. has and that is with them being in the league about 15 years longer. When you look over the last 20 years at the two teams that have dominated football conference titles and the two teams that have dominated baseball tournament championships there is only one school common to both of those lists.


No you don't. I notice how you say big 3 but don't talk about it all. At least App has won a championship in all three.

[CID1990]

The SoCon will be fine no doubt.

But I must add while you pay to see your team place you do pay more to when App or GSU come to town and your administration will miss that.

I'm not sure where you get that, our ticket prices are the same for every game.

Plus, ASU and GSU are not necessarily our biggest visitors in terms of attendance. Elon has typically outpaced everyone. Dont know why that is.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

You guys won 6, sure, but as far as the last two decades, ASU has outperformed Georgia Southern in football overall. We could probably call it a wash since you have twice as many NC's but we got ours 5 years ago instead of 23 years ago.

Where I think App football becomes more valuable is the intangibles: 1/3 more fans, better facilites ect.

App is just now becoming a baseball power, so we definitely fall short there. But being at the top of the conference in most every sport year-in year-out and winning the commissioners up every single year for 30+ years pretty much solidifies which school is carrying the most athletic prestige from the SoCon.

Definitely the two most valuable athletic departments in the conference though. No question.

1. I agree that you guys have passed us as a football program at almost every angle. We probably won't catch up in attendence for a while but we'll close much of the facilities gap (at least football wise) with our stadium upgrades we are getting later this year.

2. One good season from last year does not mean you are becoming a conference power in baseball.

3. I don't put much stock in the Commissioner's Cup after you won it last year. In the 2011-2012 sports year we won the fooball title outright, finished ahead of you in men's soccer, men's basketball, men's golf, finished right behind you in the RS standings in baseball and got father than you in the SoCon tournament. Phooey on the CC.

[dgtw]

Parents' Day and Homecoming single-game tickets cost more, regardless of opponent.

What better way to show respect to your alumni and parents of the current students than to screw them with higher ticket prices.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

No you don't. I notice how you say big 3 but don't talk about it all. At least App has won a championship in all three.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
GSU has 10 SoCon championships in football, 5 in baseball, 0 in basketball
App. has 11 in football, 1 in baseball, 2 in basketball

[OL FU]

You are nothing more than the Thundering Turd to us. The conference was fine before you arrived and will be fine after you leave.

I am still amazed why any one reads or responds to Sean Taylor:p

I only did because you quoted himxblehx

[asumike83]

2. One good season from last year does not mean you are becoming a conference power in baseball.

I agree. However, last season was the culmination of an excellent rebuilding job by Coach Pollard. The big question is how we do without him but during his tenure, we made serious strides in our baseball facilities and we are now recruiting kids that would not have even given us a look 10 years ago.

We finally got over the hump with the 41-win campaign in 2012 but ASU baseball has been trending upward for a while. After consecutive 10-win seasons in '04-'05, we put together five straight years of 30+ wins and a .500 or better record in conference before last season. It will take sustained success for our program to be talked about like the traditional powers in the conference but the foundation is there now.

I think we got a good one in Billy Jones to keep us moving forward but only time will tell.

[CID1990]

I think reality falls somewhere between the wild extremes of SeanTaylor and the two obnoxiously jealous Cid fans.

When App and Stink leave, there WILL be a void in this conference; a void in average attendance, in strength of schedule, in playoff bids, in exposure, in fanship ect. I'd venture to say that half the fans of this conference are Eagle or Mountaineer faithful. These two schools account for 9 national championships and more SoCon championships than I care to compile over the past 20-30 years. Anyone that says "good riddance" is being petty, not rational.

Now this isn't to say that the SoCon is doomed once we move into our deluxe apartment in the sky. Adding ETSU and VMI could help the App/Stink hangover and I have little doubt that the SoCon's relative strength in the FCS will return to what it is today after a brief transition period by the new additions.

The SoCon will be fine eventually after leave, but let's not pretend it won't have strong negative impact in many ways, especially at the onset.

Obnoxious? The only thing obnoxious is this post. You ASSume that the rest of the schools in the SoCon have the same priorities as ASu and GSU. Well here's a news flash for you: We don't. This exposure, strength of schedule and all these other things you claim we will suffer from when ASU and GSu depart are not all that important to us. At least not important enough to look for greener pastures. They are important to ASU and GSU and those are some of the reasons you are trying to move up. That's fine. Nobody begrudges you that.

But assuming that everybody else somehow has the same priorities and wants is obnoxious. Again, nobody lamented the departure of Marshall. few will lament yours and nobody will lament GSU's.

Don't get me wrong- I like ASU. I have a place in Boone. People in my family were attending ASU before it was called ASU. I like traveling to Boone to see games and will probably do so in the future. But I love The Citadel and I loved The Citadel back when we were playing Newberry and Boston University and Bucknell and Colgate. Our rivals are Furman and VMI. I do not care if we land on TV. I do not care if we do not win a national championship. I care about being competitive, not getting run out of the stadium, and having a good football Saturday experience. To those of you for whom "football is the welcome mat", that's fine. Just don't expect tears and hankies when you go because they wont be there.

[Skjellyfetti]

Elon has typically outpaced everyone. Dont know why that is.

Wrong.

This year (singular) Citadel's attendance for the Elon game was their highest of the year. But, I think that has more to do with it being Citadel's first modicum of success in quite awhile and the Georgia Southern game being the second week in October.

In no way is Elon typically your highest attendance of the year.

2007:
Elon at Citadel: 10,261
Appalachian at Citadel: 19, 697

2008:
Elon at Citadel: 12,582

2009:
Appalachian State at Citadel: 14,238

2010:
Elon at Citadel: 13,225

2011:
Appalachian State at Citadel: 14,154

2012:
Elon at Citadel: 14,853


In your last 3 games hosting Elon and Appalachian you averaged 12,780 for Elon and 16,029 for Appalachian State.

You averaged well over 3k more fans for App State than Elon. xcoffeex

[CID1990]

I'm not sure where you get that, our ticket prices are the same for every game.

Plus, ASU and GSU are not necessarily our biggest visitors in terms of attendance. Elon has typically outpaced everyone. Dont know why that is.

BTW- I base this on what the size of the visitor section looks like; how heavily seated it is. Elon might appear to have a bigger crowd because they spread out more due to the B.O.

Not sure.

[Saint3333]

Parents' Day and Homecoming single-game tickets cost more, regardless of opponent.

App games always cost more. I've been to 6 or 7 games down there and it is always the highest pricest ticket. Same with Furman, Wofford, Elon, etc.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You think everyone in this forum cares about Furple's home attendence, they don't.

Look man, when you take the 29,000 and the 23,000 from an average that includes 8 and 9,000's, you are going to have an impact on the conference's attendance/perception. There has been three schools in the SoCon that rarely if ever leave the top 25. You think that when two of those schools are suddenly gone that Furple or someone else will magically float to the top all of the sudden? You're in denial, man.

Like I said, the conference will eventually be just fine, but you some of you are just plain jaded and you refuse to look at this rationally. There WILL be a negative impact in several different facets that I've already mentioned (you only cared to try and rebuke one of them, and did a pretty poor job I must say). It will take a long time for another SoCon program to reach a level that App and Georgia Southern have and even longer to fill the void of two programs that are top 3-5 nationally.

How does your guys' home attendance have anything to do with them as far as hurting their bottom line? Glass has a point that it can hurt when it affects their home attendance but that affect is not huge by any means and will be a short term thing. Now the overall attendance could have some type of thing to do with a TV package as far as looking good but the SoCon already doesn't have that with you there.

Your post previous to this one spelled it our real well but I don't see App or GSU's home attendance is gonna be a big dea to get over. Just random speculation but it may be that a TV deal comes about after App/GSU leaves partially because of teams replacing them. If that happens then the conference is actually probably better off...I know it's a big "if" but who knows?

[Apphole]

Obnoxious? The only thing obnoxious is this post. You ASSume that the rest of the schools in the SoCon have the same priorities as ASu and GSU. Well here's a news flash for you: We don't. This exposure, strength of schedule and all these other things you claim we will suffer from when ASU and GSu depart are not all that important to us. At least not important enough to look for greener pastures. They are important to ASU and GSU and those are some of the reasons you are trying to move up. That's fine. Nobody begrudges you that.

But assuming that everybody else somehow has the same priorities and wants is obnoxious. Again, nobody lamented the departure of Marshall. few will lament yours and nobody will lament GSU's.

Don't get me wrong- I like ASU. I have a place in Boone. People in my family were attending ASU before it was called ASU. I like traveling to Boone to see games and will probably do so in the future. But I love The Citadel and I loved The Citadel back when we were playing Newberry and Boston University and Bucknell and Colgate. Our rivals are Furman and VMI. I do not care if we land on TV. I do not care if we do not win a national championship. I care about being competitive, not getting run out of the stadium, and having a good football Saturday experience. To those of you for whom "football is the welcome mat", that's fine. Just don't expect tears and hankies when you go because they wont be there.

If strength of schedule and exposure don't matter to you, you are the minority, not App and Stink fans.

[boonegoon]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
GSU has 10 SoCon championships in football, 5 in baseball, 0 in basketball
App. has 11 in football, 1 in baseball, 2 in basketball

I do stand corrected. However, ASU has 12 football championships, I thought they won the SOCON in baseball but that was regular season. So, GSU has 1 more championship in those 3 sports than ASU, or should I say 2 sports?xsmiley_wix

[Apphole]

How does your guys' home attendance have anything to do with them as far as hurting their bottome line? Glass has a point that it can hurt when it affects their home attemndance but that affect is not huge by any means and will be a short term thing. Now the overall attendance could have some type of thing to do with a TV package as far as looking good but the SoCon already doesn't have that with you there.

Your post previous to this one spelled it our real well but I don't see App or GSU's home attendance is gonna be a big dea to get over. Just random speculation but it may be that a TV deal comes about after App/GSU leaves partially because of teams replacing them. If that happens then the conference is actually probably better off...I know it's a big "if" but who knows?

It was just one of a laundry list of detriments that will at least temporarily hurt the SoCon after GaSO and App leave. Perception of the conference, whether its recruiting, fans' perceptions ect, or like you said TV and the media, is important.

[Skjellyfetti]

Correct me if I'm wrong...
GSU has 10 SoCon championships in football, 5 in baseball, 0 in basketball
App. has 11 in football, 1 in baseball, 2 in basketball

Appalachian has 12 championships in football and 2 conference championships in baseball.

So, we have 16 and y'all have 15 (if your GSU numbers are correct).

[The Cats]

The thing about playing ASU in Cullowhee, yeah they bring a decent crowd - BUT - the big difference is that a much larger WCU crowd will show for ASU games.

Not so with any other SoCon school.

[walliver]

If strength of schedule and exposure don't matter to you, you are the minority, not App and Stink fans.

What exposure?

When/if ASU and GSU leave, will our TV arrangements be any worse?
Will our exposure on ESPN decrease?
The SoCon is very rarely mentioned in any national media, that won't change.

We'll get less exposure in the Savannah and Winston-Salem markets and that's about it.

Strength of schedule will take a hit, but it is not really clear how big a factor SOS is during playoff selection, especially with the expanded playoffs. On the other hand, VMI will probably remain a cellar dweller indefinitely.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

It was just one of a laundry list of detriments that will at least temporarily hurt the SoCon after GaSO and App leave. Perception of the conference, whether its recruiting, fans' perceptions ect, or like you said TV and the media, is important.

I could be wrong but I just don't see it as a real big deal. That is probably based on perspective though as 1990 pointed out because some of you guys value that stuff very highly and it means something to you but I'm more in the thinking of 90 that I respect what the schools are doing and the fact that someone else doesn't this spoon fed to them to them so they can be a fan doesn't mean much to me I guess. None of those things you mention will matter to me as far as my interest in the SoCon and what those teams are doing and that is why I say it will hurt short term but will not matter at all after a couple of years much like Boise, Nevada, and Marshall leaving their respective conferences. New teams come in and the conference usually stays about the same and a new team or teams picks up the slack.

[boonegoon]

Appalachian has 12 championships in football and 2 conference championships in baseball.

So, we have 16 and y'all have 15 (if your GSU numbers are correct).

When was the second baseball? I only saw one in 84

[Apphole]

The thing about playing ASU in Cullowhee, yeah they bring a decent crowd - BUT - the big difference is that a much larger WCU crowd will show for ASU games.

That is because the "rivalry" is unrequited. Why would our fans bother driving to the middle of nowhere to watch our team beat up on a squad that has no business on the same field?

[asumike83]

When was the second baseball? I only saw one in 84

You're correct, our only baseball tournament title was 1984. Regular season in 1973, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 2012.

Never mind that little 20-year stretch after '87... nothing to see here. xcoffeex

[fc97]

so let me get this straight!

app and gsu fans have been dumping on the conference and schools particularly since the FBS studies came out

app and gsu are irritated because the rest of us are tired of hearing about it and wish you guys would just leave because the negativity of the fans is the biggest detriment to the conference and the conference image right now.

app and gsu fans continue to say basically that they are gracing us by their presence and we should all be thankful and worship their feet

and app and gsu fans want us to miss them because, damn it, how will we all ever survive once they leave. its like the conference is going to fold, the students will all go home and the schools will shut down.

[The Cats]

That is because the "rivalry" is unrequited. Why would our fans bother driving to the middle of nowhere to watch our team beat up on a squad that has no business on the same field?

You gotta love an Appy fan that will attack someone trying to support them.

Pure unadulterated obnoxiousness, that what you get with an ASU fan.

But, you better hurry, that FBS bus is about to leave the station, if you don't get on, you too will be stuck playing Mercer. Oh, I forgot, no one will sell you a ticket for that particular bus. :o :o :o :o

[fc97]

one last thing.

right now socon has no tv contract for football - how's that going to change with or without app or gsu. even with god's two greatest gifts to football we still have nothing on tv.

right now the socon offers you a home because, for how many years running and begging for a date, we're the best thing you can get.

the post about the thousands and thousands our schools will lose because of losing these great traveling fan bases. even at elon, that $5 extra for those extra fans is only $20000 every other year, even less at the citadel and furman because the difference is smaller. And there's no proof that the extra fans that come are there because they are the traveling nightmares that are app fans or the extra elon fans that come because we're playing app. its not like app fans are pouring through the gates to see your baseball or basketball teams.

so at the end, what's the net loss for the conference losing you guys. tv contracts are no worse. we lose the savannah market. elon is still covered in the triad just as much as app is except for the winston-salem journal. uncg is still in the triad. as we most likely gain, again, virginia, the tri-cities and stay in georgia with the new additions.

the only thing we lose is the constant "love us while we hate you" comments on every message board around.

[CID1990]

Wrong.

This year (singular) Citadel's attendance for the Elon game was their highest of the year. But, I think that has more to do with it being Citadel's first modicum of success in quite awhile and the Georgia Southern game being the second week in October.

In no way is Elon typically your highest attendance of the year.

2007:
Elon at Citadel: 10,261
Appalachian at Citadel: 19, 697

2008:
Elon at Citadel: 12,582

2009:
Appalachian State at Citadel: 14,238

2010:
Elon at Citadel: 13,225

2011:
Appalachian State at Citadel: 14,154

2012:
Elon at Citadel: 14,853


In your last 3 games hosting Elon and Appalachian you averaged 12,780 for Elon and 16,029 for Appalachian State.

You averaged well over 3k more fans for App State than Elon. xcoffeex

If you would read more carefully you wouldn't have to spend a bunch if time looking things up (but thanks for the extra hit on our website).

I did not say anything about overall attendance. I was talking about opponent butts in the seats. I don't think anyone keeps those numbers, so I am relying on what I have seen. The last time I saw a school travel like Elon it was Marshall.

[CID1990]

If strength of schedule and exposure don't matter to you, you are the minority, not App and Stink fans.

Says the school that is leaving for lack of enough.

Again, stop assuming everyone else's priorities are the same.

[Apphole]

so let me get this straight!

app and gsu fans have been dumping on the conference and schools particularly since the FBS studies came out

app and gsu are irritated because the rest of us are tired of hearing about it and wish you guys would just leave because the negativity of the fans is the biggest detriment to the conference and the conference image right now.

app and gsu fans continue to say basically that they are gracing us by their presence and we should all be thankful and worship their feet

and app and gsu fans want us to miss them because, damn it, how will we all ever survive once they leave. its like the conference is going to fold, the students will all go home and the schools will shut down.

How did you get all that from this


When App and Stink leave, there WILL be a void in this conference; a void in average attendance, in strength of schedule, in playoff bids, in exposure, in fanship ect. I'd venture to say that half the fans of this conference are Eagle or Mountaineer faithful. These two schools account for 9 national championships and more SoCon championships than I care to compile over the past 20-30 years. Anyone that says "good riddance" is being petty, not rational.

Now this isn't to say that the SoCon is doomed once we move into our deluxe apartment in the sky. Adding ETSU and VMI could help the App/Stink hangover and I have little doubt that the SoCon's relative strength in the FCS will return to what it is today after a brief transition period by the new additions.

The SoCon will be fine eventually after leave, but let's not pretend it won't have strong negative impact in many ways, especially at the onset.


You remind me of a mood swinging, menopausal woman.

[ASUMountaineer]

so let me get this straight!

Some app and gsu fans have been dumping on the conference and schools particularly since the FBS studies came out

Some app and gsu are irritated because the rest of us are tired of hearing about it and wish you guys would just leave because the negativity of the fans is the biggest detriment to the conference and the conference image right now.

Some app and gsu fans continue to say basically that they are gracing us by their presence and we should all be thankful and worship their feet

Some and app and gsu fans want us to miss them because, damn it, how will we all ever survive once they leave. its like the conference is going to fold, the students will all go home and the schools will shut down.

FIFY

[ASUMountaineer]

You gotta love an Appy fan that will attack someone trying to support them.

Pure unadulterated obnoxiousness, that what you get with an ASU fan.

But, you better hurry, that FBS bus is about to leave the station, if you don't get on, you too will be stuck playing Mercer. Oh, I forgot, no one will sell you a ticket for that particular bus. :o :o :o :o

His post reminded me a lot of a post you made yesterday to a Citadel fan. Pot, meet Kettle. xrolleyesx

[fc97]

FIFY

fix it right at least!!!! :-P

"Most Vocal, Message Board App Twerps"

[ASUMountaineer]

If you would read more carefully you wouldn't have to spend a bunch if time looking things up (but thanks for the extra hit on our website).

I did not say anything about overall attendance. I was talking about opponent butts in the seats. I don't think anyone keeps those numbers, so I am relying on what I have seen. The last time I saw a school travel like Elon it was Marshall.

If only they'd travel like that to their home games...

[catamount man]

You gotta love an Appy fan that will attack someone trying to support them.

Pure unadulterated obnoxiousness, that what you get with an ASU fan.

But, you better hurry, that FBS bus is about to leave the station, if you don't get on, you too will be stuck playing Mercer. Oh, I forgot, no one will sell you a ticket for that particular bus. :o :o :o :o

Apphole's demeanor is pretty much the reason I won't miss them. Yeah, I know, 58-18-1. Let me save them the trouble.

A SoCon with WCU, ETSU, VMI, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, UTC, Samford, Elon and Mercer doesn't sound that bad. It's what you make it.

[fc97]

If only they'd travel like that to their home games...

why do app fans care so much about how much another team averages for home attendance? some games we do really well, some games we do terrible. big deal. at least two games a year we do really well regardless of playing app or not. and honestly, the gsu game is usually the worst one as far as away fan attendance for us

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

so let me get this straight!

app and gsu fans have been dumping on the conference and schools particularly since the FBS studies came out

app and gsu are irritated because the rest of us are tired of hearing about it and wish you guys would just leave because the negativity of the fans is the biggest detriment to the conference and the conference image right now.

app and gsu fans continue to say basically that they are gracing us by their presence and we should all be thankful and worship their feet

and app and gsu fans want us to miss them because, damn it, how will we all ever survive once they leave. its like the conference is going to fold, the students will all go home and the schools will shut down.

Seantaylor is the only person that thinks the conference will go to hell in a handbasket if GSU and ASU leave. Saying that the conference won't take a big hit football wise without those two programs is silly. It can really alter the way the conference is perceived. Marshall leaving was mitigated because GSU had their dynasty right after that and after that App. had their day in the sun. Who will take the reigns after we are both gone?

I think you could argue MTSU and WKU leaving the OVC hurt that conference. Same thing with the teams like Troy and Louisiana-whatever that left the SLC in the '90s. The OVC and SLC have defitely lost relevance in the FCS world at-large in the last 10 years.

[Apphole]

why do app fans care so much about how much another team averages for home attendance?

The answer to your question lies in the fundamental disconnect betwixt App, Stink and the rest of the SoCon. I'm going to need Radiohead's help to explain.

But I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo
What the hell am I doing here?
I don't belong here

[Apphole]

Apphole's demeanor is pretty much the reason I won't miss them. Yeah, I know, 58-18-1. Let me save them the trouble.

A SoCon with WCU, ETSU, VMI, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, UTC, Samford, Elon and Mercer doesn't sound that bad. It's what you make it.

Oh grow a piar, man. It's all in fun. Not saying I don't mean what I say about the faux rivalry between the schools, but no need to get all butt hurt about it.

El Cid's football program has been almost as bad as Westerns over the past decade and Citdog manages to hold his rhetorical ground in these contexts. Toughen up, bro.

[ASUMountaineer]

fix it right at least!!!! :-P

"Most Vocal, Message Board App Twerps"

xlolx touche.

[ASUMountaineer]

why do app fans care so much about how much another team averages for home attendance? some games we do really well, some games we do terrible. big deal. at least two games a year we do really well regardless of playing app or not. and honestly, the gsu game is usually the worst one as far as away fan attendance for us

I don't care, I'm just making an observation. If Elon fans travel as well as Marshall fans did, as CID said, then you guys should have more fans at your home games. The statement he's trying to make doesn't seem based in reality. With that said, I don't necessarily have hard feelings either way towards Elon. I grew up outside of Greensboro, and have family that went to Elon, so I'm familiar with the school. I'm more indifferent when it comes to Elon.

The fact that you don't use capital letters in your posts bothers me more than anything about Elon itself. xnodx

[ASUMountaineer]

Apphole's demeanor is pretty much the reason I won't miss them. Yeah, I know, 58-18-1. Let me save them the trouble.

A SoCon with WCU, ETSU, VMI, Furman, Wofford, Citadel, UTC, Samford, Elon and Mercer doesn't sound that bad. It's what you make it.

It only takes one fan to ruin your opinion of an entire fanbase and school? Wow! xconfusedx

"Yeah, I know, all Boone Goons are like that." Let me save you the trouble. ;)

[fc97]

I don't care, I'm just making an observation. If Elon fans travel as well as Marshall fans did, as CID said, then you guys should have more fans at your home games. The statement he's trying to make doesn't seem based in reality. With that said, I don't necessarily have hard feelings either way towards Elon. I grew up outside of Greensboro, and have family that went to Elon, so I'm familiar with the school. I'm more indifferent when it comes to Elon.

The fact that you don't use capital letters in your posts bothers me more than anything about Elon itself. xnodx

typing on the damn phone, easier to leave it off than have the thing try to correct everything.

elon fans travel well some places. elon fans travel well for homecoming and family weekend and games like a&t. elon has a fair number of alumni in that sc area. elon fans travel well to hofstra and other places where there's a lot of alumni. yes, there's a lot of alumni in the nc area, but, it is what it is.

[PaladinFan]

You think everyone in this forum cares about Furple's home attendence, they don't.

Look man, when you take the 29,000 and the 23,000 from an average that includes 8 and 9,000's, you are going to have an impact on the conference's attendance/perception. There has been three schools in the SoCon that rarely if ever leave the top 25. You think that when two of those schools are suddenly gone that Furple or someone else will magically float to the top all of the sudden? You're in denial, man.

Like I said, the conference will eventually be just fine, but you some of you are just plain jaded and you refuse to look at this rationally. There WILL be a negative impact in several different facets that I've already mentioned (you only cared to try and rebuke one of them, and did a pretty poor job I must say). It will take a long time for another SoCon program to reach a level that App and Georgia Southern have and even longer to fill the void of two programs that are top 3-5 nationally.

I hardly think anyone cares about home attendance. That's what I am trying to get across to you. It is quite clear that the SunBelt is unconcerned, because they have invited teams that have not put a single fanny in the stands.

App State has great home attendance, but that is an incredibly recent phenomenon. Just for interest, I pulled the 2004 attendance numbers (the season before App State won their first title). Average home attendance? 14,600.

What I am trying to get across is that most SoCon folks do not worship at the altar of App State. Most of us remember when App State's traveling contingent was relatively paltry, and their attendance, while better than most, was roughly in the ball park for the rest of the SoCon teams (In 2004 they drew about 2,000 less than el Cid, 1,000 less than GSU, and about 3k more than Furman). That was not that long ago. It took three straight titles to boom the attendance numbers, and even after that the attendance fell by 14,000 folks in the playoffs just this year.

[Apphole]

I hardly think anyone cares about home attendance. That's what I am trying to get across to you. It is quite clear that the SunBelt is unconcerned, because they have invited teams that have not put a single fanny in the stands.

App State has great home attendance, but that is an incredibly recent phenomenon. Just for interest, I pulled the 2004 attendance numbers (the season before App State won their first title). Average home attendance? 14,600.

In what world is 2004 "incredibly recent?" So since we've only lead the nation in attendence for 4 years in a row it doesn't count towards the worth of our program/the void in the SoCon when we leave? How many years do you have to draw crowds of 30k before we can say that then?


What I am trying to get across is that most SoCon folks do not worship at the altar of App State. Most of us remember when App State's traveling contingent was relatively paltry, and their attendance, while better than most, was roughly in the ball park for the rest of the SoCon teams (In 2004 they drew about 2,000 less than el Cid, 1,000 less than GSU, and about 3k more than Furman). That was not that long ago. It took three straight titles to boom the attendance numbers, and even after that the attendance fell by 14,000 folks in the playoffs just this year.

And here starts the exaggeration and puffery. "Worshiping the alter.." blah blah blah, NO ONE, not even seantaylor, has even remotely suggested that. It is a logical fallacy that you and fcnocaps always make a habit of. How about attacking what some of us have actually said for once? The assertion we're disproving is that the day after App and GaSo leave, there will be no negative fallout whatsoever. All we're saying is that there will, at least temporarily, be a decline in a lot of import conference factors of worth. You may value some more than others and those values may differ from what is important to an App/GaSo fans, but they will nonetheless absolutely going to decline when we leave.

[citdog]

let us know when you have an invite, the second tuesday from never, and we will tell you whom to make the check out to and for how much.

[Saint3333]

App averaged 23,200 in 2005. The initial bump in attendance from 2004 to 2005 wasn't due to a national championship but as a result of a change in leadership and enhancements to the gameday atmosphere. Now the jump from 23k to 28k is due to winning, but it has held at that level even with a poor economy the last 5 years after the championship run.

[Apphole]

let us know when you have an invite

Oh we will, rest assured. I just hope you're hungry.

Please don't pull at chattown and run and hide when it happens. I would be very disappointed in you if you did.

[citdog]

Oh we will, rest assured. I just hope you're hungry.

Please don't pull at chattown and run and hide when it happens. I would be very disappointed in you if you did.


my attitude has always been.......





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE

[Apphole]

my attitude has always been.......





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReYfu5E-hOE

Oh I know, but you've got a truck load of crow to eat when it happens. Only then will we hear your teary goodbyes.

[The Cats]

Doc Hollyday vs Johnny Ringo

-or- is it "Apphole" vs "citdog" (I'll let you decide which is apphole and which is citdog)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lCSFXFHTj7I#!

[citdog]

apphole is no daisy

[ASUMountaineer]

let us know when you have an invite, the second tuesday from never, and we will tell you whom to make the check out to and for how much.

Don't talk like that knobby...I offered to take a bet when you said earlier this week that ASU/GSU will "never" get an invite to FBS. You never responded, why not put up or shut up? xrotatehx

[ASUMountaineer]

let us know when you have an invite, the second tuesday from never, and we will tell you whom to make the check out to and for how much.

Besides, I just figure you'll let us know when we have an invite. You are more interested in Appalachian than I am. xnodx

[citdog]

Don't talk like that knobby...I offered to take a bet when you said earlier this week that ASU/GSU will "never" get an invite to FBS. You never responded, why not put up or shut up? xrotatehx


I don't engage in games of chance with goyim.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Oh I know, but you've got a truck load of crow to eat when it happens. Only then will we hear your teary goodbyes.

I think you've misunderstood something all along here then. How will he have anything to eat? He has made fun of many aspects of the fans on here saying "Oh once this happens then we'll have the invite on Monday" etc. and all the other poking in the ribs to those who are deserving because of their claims of how this all works, or should work out in their mind.

I don't remember him saying it isn't going to happen which would be what is required for cooking up crow. I could be wrong though as I probably have seen all the posts on the matter. In normal phone conversations and so forth though I've never gotten the feeling that he doesn't think it will or could happen just that it won't bother him to see App go.

If there was a member on this site for instance that complained about this congregation and ripped us down at every opportunity and said they'd rather be part of another board than ours would we really care if they left? I don't think so.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Don't talk like that knobby...I offered to take a bet when you said earlier this week that ASU/GSU will "never" get an invite to FBS. You never responded, why not put up or shut up? xrotatehx

Oh hell now that you mention that I did see that one so we can scratch that off of my last retort to Apphole. Fire up the frying pan holio.

[citdog]

Besides, I just figure you'll let us know when we have an invite. You are more interested in Appalachian than I am. xnodx


meanwhile in boone, nc




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh8ZFiRa7dU

[walliver]

It's been several pages since ETSU or VMI were discussed on this thread based around them.

For me, I'm not excited about ETSU and VMI, it's better than Gardner-Webb and PC, but nothing to get excited about.

VMI has been sucktacular for decades (other than a 2002 game I am still trying to forget), and they got no better playing in the Big South. ETSU was quite bad for a number of years before dropping football. Maybe a fresh start will give them a chance to leave the mini-dump unpleasantness behind.

[citdog]

It's been several pages since ETSU or VMI were discussed on this thread based around them.

For me, I'm not excited about ETSU and VMI, it's better than Gardner-Webb and PC, but nothing to get excited about.

VMI has been sucktacular for decades (other than a 2002 game I am still trying to forget), and they got no better playing in the Big South. ETSU was quite bad for a number of years before dropping football. Maybe a fresh start will give them a chance to leave the mini-dump unpleasantness behind.


whoa there lee harvey.........vmi and etsu were playing football when you were naia........

[Skjellyfetti]

whoa there lee harvey.........vmi and etsu were playing football when you were naia........

yup. history is EXTREMELY important to citdog...











(except when it's concerning citadel's history of mediocrity)

[ASUMountaineer]

I don't engage in games of chance with goyim.

I'd call you a woman, but women are manlier than cadets.

http://www.postandcourier.com/storyimage/CP/20111029/PC20/310299938/AR/0/AR-310299938.jpg&q=100&maxh=300

Would it help if you knew that my son is a 1/4 kosher?

[ASUMountaineer]

meanwhile in boone, nc




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh8ZFiRa7dU

Neither based in Boone or NC. Direct that smack to our southern brethren in GA. Or, do as I said and ask ASU to have Citadel's gay pride rally moved from Johnson Hagood to Boone, where you and your Ned Beatty friends can go "down" while getting "high."

[ASUMountaineer]

Oh hell now that you mention that I did see that one so we can scratch that off of my last retort to Apphole. Fire up the frying pan holio.

xlolx We'll see. I think there's a good chance that ASU will make the move, but I have no knowledge. It just seems like a decent bet for me to make with him. It doesn't have to be for money (I know his type are rather frugal), but I'd be willing to do an avatar bet.

[ASUMountaineer]

It's been several pages since ETSU or VMI were discussed on this thread based around them.

For me, I'm not excited about ETSU and VMI, it's better than Gardner-Webb and PC, but nothing to get excited about.

VMI has been sucktacular for decades (other than a 2002 game I am still trying to forget), and they got no better playing in the Big South. ETSU was quite bad for a number of years before dropping football. Maybe a fresh start will give them a chance to leave the mini-dump unpleasantness behind.

Which school(s) would you prefer? No to GW. No to PC. No to ETSU. No to VMI. I'm assuming no to CCU. I'm guessing yes to Mercer. And, I'm also guessing a BIG yes to UR and W&M (which is a BIG stretch).

[ASUMountaineer]

yup. history is EXTREMELY important to citdog...











(except when it's concerning citadel's history of mediocrity)

xnodx xlolx

[citdog]

Neither based in Boone or NC. Direct that smack to our southern brethren in GA. Or, do as I said and ask ASU to have Citadel's gay pride rally moved from Johnson Hagood to Boone, where you and your Ned Beatty friends can go "down" while getting "high."




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nb_mH4Q4mw




http://ahelicoptermom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/162732260_Gun_TotingBibleThumperMO_answer_4_xlarge .jpeg

[ASUMountaineer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nb_mH4Q4mw




http://ahelicoptermom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/162732260_Gun_TotingBibleThumperMO_answer_4_xlarge .jpeg

http://incogman.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/GAY-JEW-PARADE.jpg

[Tealblood]

I understand that I sound like the women scorned at this point. But to hear the powers of the socon talk about raising the level of competitiveness and bring in VMI is laughable. I can't think of a sport they have finished above the mid-point in our weak-*** conference.

[citdog]

I understand that I sound like the women scorned at this point. But to hear the powers of the socon talk about raising the level of competitiveness and bring in VMI is laughable. I can't think of a sport they have finished above the mid-point in our weak-*** conference.

this is a Southern Conference discussion. You will NEVER be a member. VMI is 1000000000000000000 times the school you are. You're too stupid to know that being confederated with them legitimizes your diploma mill.

[walliver]

whoa there lee harvey.........vmi and etsu were playing football when you were naia........

But not good football.
ETSU hasn't had a good team since 1992.
VMI hasn't won a SoCon championship since 1977.

And speaking of history, I think our win streak is up to 14 in a row.

[citdog]

But not good football.
ETSU hasn't had a good team since 1992.
VMI hasn't won a SoCon championship since 1977.

And speaking of history, I think our win streak is up to 14 in a row.

bad football at the Division I level is better than great football in the naia.


only about 40 more wins needed to get to .500

[CID1990]

But not good football.
ETSU hasn't had a good team since 1992.
VMI hasn't won a SoCon championship since 1977.

And speaking of history, I think our win streak is up to 14 in a row.

VMI did play very good football at one time, and there is no reason they cannot again. They have made some bad staffing decisions in the last 20 years but Sparky Woods can field a winner.

And Citdog is correct, VMI was playing at the top level long before Wofford moved up, and they were competitive on VT's level.

[Engineer86]

this is a Southern Conference discussion. You will NEVER be a member. VMI is 1000000000000000000 times the school you are. You're too stupid to know that being confederated with them legitimizes your diploma mill.

Now you are coming around to the Patriot League way of thinking xlolxxlolx

[kdinva]

bring in VMI is laughable. I can't think of a sport they have finished above the mid-point in our weak-*** conference.

we've made the hoops tourney final 3 of the past 5 years......always finish ahead of CCU in both Track meets......have had 3 or 4 top-5 finishes in baseball......recruit student-athletes, don't bring in JUCO's to become more competitive instantly.....

most of the coaches we've had/do have since 2003 are good men/women.......it's the top Admin. that is choking the Keydets.

Citadel alum's actually demand results in the face of the school's president/superintendent........VMI alum's talk about it on the golf course, don't dare to ask for a face to face with the #1 man.

[citdog]

we've made the hoops tourney final 3 of the past 5 years......always finish ahead of CCU in both Track meets......have had 3 or 4 top-5 finishes in baseball......recruit student-athletes, don't bring in JUCO's to become more competitive instantly.....

most of the coaches we've had/do have since 2003 are good men/women.......it's the top Admin. that is choking the Keydets.

Citadel alum's actually demand results in the face of the school's president/superintendent........VMI alum's talk about it on the golf course, don't dare to ask for a face to face with the #1 man.


VMI has no.....



http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41UUnXT1yBL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[OL FU]

I realize it ain't gonna happen and I may be in the minority but I would like to see CCU considered.


Mainly because citdog doesn't:)

[citdog]

I realize it ain't gonna happen and I may be in the minority but I would like to see CCU considered.


Mainly because citdog doesn't:)


42-20

[OL FU]

42-20

So What after last year I was used to scores like that.

At least I haven't been used to them for a lifetime:D

[CID1990]

we've made the hoops tourney final 3 of the past 5 years......always finish ahead of CCU in both Track meets......have had 3 or 4 top-5 finishes in baseball......recruit student-athletes, don't bring in JUCO's to become more competitive instantly.....

most of the coaches we've had/do have since 2003 are good men/women.......it's the top Admin. that is choking the Keydets.

Citadel alum's actually demand results in the face of the school's president/superintendent........VMI alum's talk about it on the golf course, don't dare to ask for a face to face with the #1 man.

Why are you trying to justify anything to Drive Thru and Hoes Too U?

[CID1990]

I realize it ain't gonna happen and I may be in the minority but I would like to see CCU considered.


Mainly because citdog doesn't:)

Yeah well you ARE in the minority, and Furple officially is the basement of the SoCon in basketball: El Cid just rallied from 18 down at the half to win by 4.

Suck it.

[OL FU]

Yeah well you ARE in the minority, and Furple officially is the basement of the SoCon in basketball: El Cid just rallied from 18 down at the half to win by 4.

Suck it.

I watch it. we suck

[OL FU]

Yeah well you ARE in the minority, and Furple officially is the basement of the SoCon in basketball: El Cid just rallied from 18 down at the half to win by 4.

Suck it.

On a different note, are you still in Vietnam. I haven't kept up.

[PaladinFan]

Yeah well you ARE in the minority, and Furple officially is the basement of the SoCon in basketball: El Cid just rallied from 18 down at the half to win by 4.

Suck it.

Hey we just beat georgia southern.

Lets face it, southern conference basketball is a dumpster fire on all fronts. There's barely a decent team in the whole lot.

[CID1990]

On a different note, are you still in Vietnam. I haven't kept up.

I'm in El Salvador now, I moved in October.

We've been patiently awaiting the Furman game so we could firmly establish who is the bottom dweller and who is the runner up bottom dweller.

[OL FU]

I'm in El Salvador now, I moved in October.

We've been patiently awaiting the Furman game so we could firmly establish who is the bottom dweller and who is the runner up bottom dweller.


A man on the move.

Well we firmly hold the honor now.

[walliver]

A man on the move.

Well we firmly hold the honor now.

Don't overlook Wofford, we may have the 3d best team in Spartanburg.

[CID1990]

Come to think of it, we're on a winning streak!?!?

[Sandlapper Spike]

we've made the hoops tourney final 3 of the past 5 years......always finish ahead of CCU in both Track meets......have had 3 or 4 top-5 finishes in baseball......recruit student-athletes, don't bring in JUCO's to become more competitive instantly.....

most of the coaches we've had/do have since 2003 are good men/women.......it's the top Admin. that is choking the Keydets.

Citadel alum's actually demand results in the face of the school's president/superintendent........VMI alum's talk about it on the golf course, don't dare to ask for a face to face with the #1 man.

I want VMI back in the SoCon, no question...but it's also time for your administration to get a clue when it comes to football, or for VMI to get a new administration.

[kdinva]

......but it's also time for your administration to get a clue when it comes to football, or for VMI to get a new administration.

we've been wishing for both for eight+ years.......problem is the donors with the fattest checkbooks are satisfied with the status quo.....

[Griz_are_Beta_AF]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4562054

Here's a source saying it's rumored they are in the mix if the SoCon adds more teams.

[elcid83]

For those schools that will be considered for invite, is the SOCON looking for schools that fit [my theory] or for enhanced competition. If they're looking for enhanced competition, there's no way VMI comes back. Maybe they're back if SOCON is more focused on schools that fit. I would not have considered Samford a good fit until I actually visited their campus a couple of years ago. Once you see their campus, you immediately understand why they were invited.

[walliver]

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20130131/PC20/130139818/1032/minus-college-of-charleston-socon-basketball-to-play-16-game-slate-in-2013-14

"Citadel athletic director Larry Leckonby said there a lot of different opinions.

“There a lot of varying thoughts on what makes the strongest member,” he said. “Is it a football-only decision, a geographical decision, how would the league play out? There were probably four different directions in the room as to which way we should go.”"

The article is mostly about basketball, but gets to conference expansion at the end.

It appears that not much was accomplished at the most recent meeting. Apparently they started with a list of 12 schools and marked a few off the list.

[PaladinFan]

For those schools that will be considered for invite, is the SOCON looking for schools that fit [my theory] or for enhanced competition. If they're looking for enhanced competition, there's no way VMI comes back. Maybe they're back if SOCON is more focused on schools that fit. I would not have considered Samford a good fit until I actually visited their campus a couple of years ago. Once you see their campus, you immediately understand why they were invited.

It's hard to know. Again, in this part of the Southeast, I think you try and find those teams that have a commitment to athletics. Was Samford a sexy pick? No. Still, its a nice park, nice city, and a university committed to playing quality football.

Frankly, I think the SoCon does have a little bit of a "rising tide raises all ships" effect. You can make a pretty strong case that every team in the SoCon (App State and GSU included) would not have found as much success had they played elsewhere. Teams come into the conference and elevate their play. We've seen it time after time. I have no doubt that if VMI and ETSU commit to football, facilities, and improvement across the board, that they will find success too.

[The Cats]

I realize it ain't gonna happen and I may be in the minority but I would like to see CCU considered.

Same here. and citdog doesn't make conference membership decisions.

[CID1990]

I realize it ain't gonna happen and I may be in the minority but I would like to see CCU considered.


Mainly because citdog doesn't:)

You want lose to them in football all the time instead of just occasionally?

[citdog]

Same here. and citdog doesn't make conference membership decisions.


The SC schools will not vote for UCLA. Upper Conway Lower Aynor.

[OL FU]

You want lose to them in football all the time instead of just occasionally?

If things keep going in the same direction for Fruman football, then we will lose to lots of schools that we wouldn't have in the past. I don't think that is going to be the situation. I understand the difficulties with CCU but probably put less emphasis on some of them such as academics. They have some good sports programs in things other than football and it seems as if our choices outside of them are more small private schools or start up football programs.

[CID1990]

I understand the difficulties with CCU but probably put less emphasis on some of them such as academics.

I like the way you said that.

[rokamortis]

I like the way you said that.

Ah, the Citadel charm.

Let's not let facts like Coastal's academic profile being the same or very similar to two schools that are rumored to be under serious consideration (KSU and ETSU) get in the way.

[fc97]

Ah, the Citadel charm.

Let's not let facts like Coastal's academic profile being the same or very similar to two schools that are rumored to be under serious consideration (KSU and ETSU) get in the way.

it's reported to be more than that. but if you really want to know, go ask someone in furman, wofford, the citadel or davidson and ask what the deal is. those schools are the hangup.

[PaladinFan]

it's reported to be more than that. but if you really want to know, go ask someone in furman, wofford, the citadel or davidson and ask what the deal is. those schools are the hangup.

Not sure anybody really knows. I do think there is value in not having 3/4 of the conference in South Carolina, though. I imagine there are a number of factors. You don't hear Presbyterian's name bantered about, a school that fits a closer institutional profile to recent additions than Coastal. I just think most of those schools don't want every school in the state in the SoCon.

[rokamortis]

it's reported to be more than that. but if you really want to know, go ask someone in furman, wofford, the citadel or davidson and ask what the deal is. those schools are the hangup.

I know there are other issues - just addressing the point that was made. Don't use academics since that is clearly not the issue if ETSU and KSU get in. ETSU and KSU help the conference geographically - the more western schools will appreciate having members in Tennesee and North Georgia. Whether admittedly or not, those in-state schools don't want to add legitimacy to Coastal by being in the same conference. Not sure why Davidson would support KSU and ETSU over Coastal - but I imagine it has to do with going along with those other, like-minded schools.

[fc97]

I know there are other issues - just addressing the point that was made. Don't use academics since that is clearly not the issue if ETSU and KSU get in. ETSU and KSU help the conference geographically - the more western schools will appreciate having members in Tennesee and North Georgia. Whether admittedly or not, those in-state schools don't want to add legitimacy to Coastal by being in the same conference. Not sure why Davidson would support KSU and ETSU over Coastal - but I imagine it has to do with going along with those other, like-minded schools.

i'm not sure what davidson supports and doesnt support really. it may be that davidson is the only voice of opposition to some rather than 3 others with them for coastal. if the rest support ksu and etsu with the lone dissenting voice being davidson, then there's not much they can do about it since that would be the 3/4 vote required for any school.

[rokamortis]

i'm not sure what davidson supports and doesnt support really. it may be that davidson is the only voice of opposition to some rather than 3 others with them for coastal. if the rest support ksu and etsu with the lone dissenting voice being davidson, then there's not much they can do about it since that would be the 3/4 vote required for any school.

Good point

[CID1990]

I'll give a rip what Davidson thinks when they start playing football in the SoCon.

[The Cats]

Not sure anybody really knows. I do think there is value in not having 3/4 of the conference in South Carolina, though. I imagine there are a number of factors. You don't hear Presbyterian's name bantered about, a school that fits a closer institutional profile to recent additions than Coastal. I just think most of those schools don't want every school in the state in the SoCon.

No one made the arguments about too many schools in SC, when Charleston was added.

Now that they are leaving, I would see no problem with adding CCU to fill the open position. Decent basketball, and football, excellent baseball. Seems to be a good fit for the SoCon to me, and I think they've rectified any academic problems from the past. A much better pick than PC, or G-W, and I'd certainly prefer Coastal to VMI which would add nothing to the conference except somebody for the Citadel to beat in football.

[citdog]

i'm not sure what davidson supports and doesnt support really. it may be that davidson is the only voice of opposition to some rather than 3 others with them for coastal. if the rest support ksu and etsu with the lone dissenting voice being davidson, then there's not much they can do about it since that would be the 3/4 vote required for any school.

I don't think you understand how the SoCon works. Whatever The Citadel and furman want to happen IS what happens.

[citdog]

No one made the arguments about too many schools in SC, when Charleston was added.

Now that they are leaving, I would see no problem with adding CCU to fill the open position. Decent basketball, and football, excellent baseball. Seems to be a good fit for the SoCon to me, and I think they've rectified any academic problems from the past. A much better pick than PC, or G-W, and I'd certainly prefer Coastal to VMI which would add nothing to the conference except somebody for the Citadel to beat in football.

Fortunately you don't have a vote. MANY think we erred in allowing YOU membership.

We already have someone to beat....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YLUVDPFbQ

[PaladinFan]

I don't think you understand how the SoCon works. Whatever The Citadel and furman want to happen IS what happens.

I wasn't quite sure how to put that, but I think you are probably right. Those two old schools, have the longest tenure in the conference, and pretty much have the most money (along with Davidson, who probably has a slight bit less of a say given their football). There's a lot to be said for that.

[The Cats]

I wasn't quite sure how to put that, but I think you are probably right. Those two old schools, have the longest tenure in the conference, and pretty much have the most money (along with Davidson, who probably has a slight bit less of a say given their football). There's a lot to be said for that.

How about you two taking it to a room.

Damn, you guys are in love with yourselves.

[CID1990]

No one made the arguments about too many schools in SC, when Charleston was added.

Now that they are leaving, I would see no problem with adding CCU to fill the open position. Decent basketball, and football, excellent baseball. Seems to be a good fit for the SoCon to me, and I think they've rectified any academic problems from the past. A much better pick than PC, or G-W, and I'd certainly prefer Coastal to VMI which would add nothing to the conference except another team that would regularly whip WCU.

FIFY

[PaladinFan]

How about you two taking it to a room.

Damn, you guys are in love with yourselves.

I can't imagine Citdog going for that.

[citdog]

I can't imagine Citdog going for that.


As the product of such a heterosexual miscegenation I have never been adverse to a spirited game of 'hide the pork sword' with furman women.

[Saint3333]

I don't think you understand how the SoCon works. Whatever The Citadel and furman want to happen IS what happens.

That explains quite a bit actually.

[OL FU]

No one made the arguments about too many schools in SC, when Charleston was added.

Now that they are leaving, I would see no problem with adding CCU to fill the open position. Decent basketball, and football, excellent baseball. Seems to be a good fit for the SoCon to me, and I think they've rectified any academic problems from the past. A much better pick than PC, or G-W, and I'd certainly prefer Coastal to VMI which would add nothing to the conference except somebody for the Citadel to beat in football.

I agree. I understand expanding the geography, but to me Coastal makes sense. They are established in football and they have other really good sports programs. While all schools recruit against each other and proximity makes it more difficult, one would think that the two upstate schools and a military school are significantly different from CCU so that it wouldn't be the problem that it might be otherwise. From Furman's prospective, if recruiting (legitimacy) was the issue I don't think Furman would have supported Wofford, a very similar school, sitting in its back yard being in the SoCon.

[Apphole]

I wasn't quite sure how to put that, but I think you are probably right. Those two old schools, have the longest tenure in the conference, and pretty much have the most money (along with Davidson, who probably has a slight bit less of a say given their football). There's a lot to be said for that.

You don't have the most money. Appalachian has the most money.

And you get one vote just like every other member. Counting down the days until we no longer have a vote. It truly cannot come soon enough.

[CID1990]

As the product of such a heterosexual miscegenation I have never been adverse to a spirited game of 'hide the pork sword' with furman women.

Hebrew National?

[PaladinFan]

You don't have the most money. Appalachian has the most money.

And you get one vote just like every other member. Counting down the days until we no longer have a vote. It truly cannot come soon enough.

Take App State's endowment. Add $500 million. You still wouldn't be at Furman's endowment.

[CID1990]

You don't have the most money. Appalachian has the most money.

Surely you are not referring to endowment? (The primary metric of how much money a college actually has)

[Apphole]

I was referring to athletic budget, since this was an athletic discussion.

[Sandlapper Spike]

I was referring to athletic budget, since this was an athletic discussion.

To be honest, I don't think it matters much one way or the other...but actually, I think Furman had a larger budget for varsity athletics last season (per USDOE).

$20,531,293 -- Furman
$19,028,962 -- App State

[PaladinFan]

I was referring to athletic budget, since this was an athletic discussion.

The question is relative. I have no idea who influences the decision makers in the conference, but I would lend my ear not to the person who drives the flashiest car, but to the person that has the most weight to throw around.

[PaladinFan]

To be honest, I don't think it matters much one way or the other...but actually, I think Furman had a larger budget for varsity athletics last season (per USDOE).

$20,531,293 -- Furman
$19,028,962 -- App State

App probably gets more bang for the dollar. It costs Furman a lot more to fund an athlete.

[citdog]

I was referring to athletic budget, since this was an athletic discussion.

actually no. You had no idea and just assumed that appy had more because that's what you'd expect.

[citdog]

To be honest, I don't think it matters much one way or the other...but actually, I think Furman had a larger budget for varsity athletics last season (per USDOE).

$20,531,293 -- Furman
$19,028,962 -- App State

Now apphole you can see that you were as wrong about that as you are about most things.

[GlassOnion]

The Citadel and App's endowment is virtually identical at around $200,000,000. App was at about $50 mil when Peacock started, he's already raised over $150,000,000+ by himself.

[Sandlapper Spike]

App probably gets more bang for the dollar. It costs Furman a lot more to fund an athlete.

Not much doubt about that.

[citdog]

The Citadel and App's endowment is virtually identical at around $200,000,000. App was at about $50 mil when Peacock started, he's already raised over $150,000,000+ by himself.


really?


http://www.carolinapublicpress.org/1507/endowments-are-on-the-rise-among-north-carolina%E2%80%99s-higher-education-institutions

as recently as two years ago you were below the national median.

[Saint3333]

He is speaking to the $200M campaign App is currently in of which $150M has been raised.

http://campaign.appstate.edu/goals

Oh yeah and Citdog I'd like to personally invite you to see something you haven't seen in over 20 years:

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=21500&ATCLID=206464259

[citdog]

He is speaking to the $200M campaign App is currently in of which $150M has been raised.

http://campaign.appstate.edu/goals

Oh yeah and Citdog I'd like to personally invite you to see something you haven't seen in over 20 years:

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=21500&ATCLID=206464259


VERY easy to pledge. Let's see how much you COLLECT.

Here is something you have NEVER seen.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uoIGIMX1U84/RqOpdOp0PSI/AAAAAAAAAVs/7iukqH4u-PQ/s400/obamahat.bmp



and here is something you HAVE.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4YLUVDPFbQ

[GlassOnion]

really?


http://www.carolinapublicpress.org/1507/endowments-are-on-the-rise-among-north-carolina%E2%80%99s-higher-education-institutions

as recently as two years ago you were below the national median.

Sounds like you "assumed" you knew what you were talking about. Now you can see how wrong you are, about most thinks. Right around 99% I believe.

[citdog]

Sounds like you "assumed" you knew what you were talking about. Now you can see how wrong you are, about most thinks. Right around 99% I believe.

No. I actually did a bit of research. It must be QUITE embarrassing to have less money than schools that don't have as many living alumni as you have students. The bigger question is WHY IS THERE NO LOYALTY IN THE ALUMNI BASE FROM appy st? 99% must not give a NICKLE.

[CID1990]

The Citadel and App's endowment is virtually identical at around $200,000,000. App was at about $50 mil when Peacock started, he's already raised over $150,000,000+ by himself.

Wrong.

VMI is the #1 endowed public school in the nation as of the NYT survey in 2007.

El Cid is around #11 in the nation in the same listing.

ASU doesnt even crack the list.

AND- Davidson cleans everyone's clock on endowment.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/04/20/education/edlife/20080420_EDULIFE_PRINCETON_GRAPHIC.html

ASU may have improved over that time some, but not enough to come close to saying they are as heavily endowed as schools like Wofford, Furman, Davidson or El Cid.

[GlassOnion]

No. I actually did a bit of research. It must be QUITE embarrassing to have less money than schools that don't have as many living alumni as you have students. The bigger question is WHY IS THERE NO LOYALTY IN THE ALUMNI BASE FROM appy st? 99% must not give a NICKLE.

Not as embarrassing as having all that money and only scoring 2 winning seasons in 12 years...

[GlassOnion]

Wrong.

VMI is the #1 endowed public school in the nation as of the NYT survey in 2007.

El Cid is around #11 in the nation in the same listing.

ASU doesnt even crack the list.

AND- Davidson cleans everyone's clock on endowment.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/04/20/education/edlife/20080420_EDULIFE_PRINCETON_GRAPHIC.html

ASU may have improved over that time some, but not enough to come close to saying they are as heavily endowed as schools like Wofford, Furman, Davidson or El Cid.


WRONG.

Way to link an article with a 2008 publish date, pure genius. Well done. Half a decade. xsmileyclapx

[citdog]

Not as embarrassing as having all that money and only scoring 2 winning seasons in 12 years...


If ALL I had was football success, at a level you disparage at every opportunity, that's probably what I would focus on as well.

[GlassOnion]

If ALL I had was football success, at a level you disparage at every opportunity, that's probably what I would focus on as well.

Apparently, the citadel's level of success isnt enough for you, as you spend 99% of your time talking App State.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Apparently, the citadel's level of success isnt enough for you, as you spend 99% of your time talking App State.

The other 1% involves trolling the Patriot League threads. Also, coming on to RichH.

[citdog]

And if I had The Citadels level of success, I'd be obsessed with App State too.


THIS kind of success?

http://hamptonroadscitadelclub.com/files/number1.jpg

[GlassOnion]

The other 1% involves trolling the Patriot League threads. Also, coming on to RichH.

Lol, The Citadel gets no love from Citdog, he just knocks down other teams to make himself feel better. What a bully! xcoffeex

[citdog]

The other 1% involves trolling the Patriot League threads. Also, coming on to RichH.


if your league sucked even a bit less perhaps you wouldn't draw my ire.

[citdog]

typical thread when dealing with the yosefs.......FACTS mean nothing when dealing with this bunch. I'd be glad to see them go........IF ONLY ANYONE WANTED THEM.

[GlassOnion]

THIS kind of success?

http://hamptonroadscitadelclub.com/files/number1.jpg

There are nearly 310 million other people in America that can walk in a straight line too, what are you geting at? xthumbsupx

[GlassOnion]

typical thread when dealing with the yosefs.......FACTS mean nothing when dealing with this bunch. I'd be glad to see them go........IF ONLY ANYONE WANTED THEM.

Werent you the one looking for an App fan to spar with?

[ASUMountaineer]

No. I actually did a bit of research. It must be QUITE embarrassing to have less money than schools that don't have as many living alumni as you have students. The bigger question is WHY IS THERE NO LOYALTY IN THE ALUMNI BASE FROM appy st? 99% must not give a NICKLE.

We appreciate your concern with Appalachian's alumni giving rate! xthumbsupx

[CID1990]

WRONG.

Way to link an article with a 2008 publish date, pure genius. Well done. Half a decade. xsmileyclapx

So are you saying it is not still the case? If you can't refute the numbers you suggest they somehow have changed radically in 4 years? Weak sauce.

The top endowed schools are STILL the top endowed schools.

ASU's endowment has increased to just over 56K per (from 2010), which still does not crack the list.

It goes back to what I said in another thread. SoCon schools have different priorities. ASU's is football. Nothing wrong with that.

[GlassOnion]

So are you saying it is not still the case? If you can't refute the numbers you suggest they somehow have changed radically in 4 years? Weak sauce.

The top endowed schools are STILL the top endowed schools.

ASU's endowment has increased to just over 56K per (from 2010), which still does not crack the list.

It goes back to what I said in another thread. SoCon schools have different priorities. ASU's is football. Nothing wrong with that.

Did you just choose NOT to click on Saints link, or are you purposely being thick? Since late 2007, App has raised $150 + million dollars.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Did you just choose NOT to click on Saints link, or are you purposely being thick? Since late 2007, App has raised $150 + million dollars.

200 mil divided by 17,500 students is around $11.4k per student, which is still not anywhere near where El Cid was in 2008. Not following what you are saying here.

[CID1990]

Did you just choose NOT to click on Saints link, or are you purposely being thick? Since late 2007, App has raised $150 + million dollars.

Of course I looked at it. That money is spread out over each calendar year, so divide that by that HALF DECADE you pointed out earlier.

The NYT link deals with endowment per student, where The Citadel ranks highly.

Here's the link to the bible of school endowments (for 2012, I might add):

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2012NCSEPublicTablesEndowmentMarketValuesRevisedFe bruary42013.pdf

Now, don't come unglued again, but you are going to have to scroll WAY down to find ASU, behind several other SoCon schools. Furman and Davidson are the most heavily endowed schools in the SoCon, followed by El Cid. If you want to measure d!cks over football, that's fine. But you are going to lose that contest in terms of where MOST of the other SoCon schools' priorities lie.

[CID1990]

200 mil divided by 17,500 students is around $11.4k per student, which is still not anywhere near where El Cid was in 2008. Not following what you are saying here.

He's flailing. Divide it again by 5 and you get the yearly.

[GlassOnion]

200 mil divided by 17,500 students is around $11.4k per student, which is still not anywhere near where El Cid was in 2008. Not following what you are saying here.

This isnt an average, the Citadel reported a $208,000,000 endowment fund in 2011. App's fund was $56.3 million when Peacock took over. Peacock has raised $152.3 million since 2007, and the goal is $200 million.

[citdog]

Did you just choose NOT to click on Saints link, or are you purposely being thick? Since late 2007, App has raised $150 + million dollars.


A collective problem with statistics?

[GlassOnion]

A collective problem with statistics?

YOU posted a linked with the $56 million fund, not average per student. Of course the cit's per student average is higher, my high school was larger than the citadel.

[GlassOnion]

Of course I looked at it. That money is spread out over each calendar year, so divide that by that HALF DECADE you pointed out earlier.

The NYT link deals with endowment per student, where The Citadel ranks highly.

Here's the link to the bible of school endowments (for 2012, I might add):

http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2012NCSEPublicTablesEndowmentMarketValuesRevisedFe bruary42013.pdf

Now, don't come unglued again, but you are going to have to scroll WAY down to find ASU, behind several other SoCon schools. Furman and Davidson are the most heavily endowed schools in the SoCon, followed by El Cid. If you want to measure d!cks over football, that's fine. But you are going to lose that contest in terms of where MOST of the other SoCon schools' priorities lie.

Your 2008 link is still half a decade out of date and obsolete, no matter how you look at the statistics.

[CID1990]

This isnt an average, the Citadel reported a $208,000,000 endowment fund in 2011. App's fund was $56.3 million when Peacock took over. Peacock has raised $152.3 million since 2007, and the goal is $200 million.

Congratulations! With more than 5 times the number of students, ASU still lags behind a goodly number of the rest of the SoCon in terms of endowment.

By the way, the per student metric is absolutely the one that is measured most closely, because it reflects the actual weight of the benefit. In order to even come close to The Citadel in this respect, ASU will need to have a revolving endowment of (jeez let me pull out the calculator here).... 1 billion dollars.

[CID1990]

Your 2008 link is still half a decade out of date and obsolete, no matter how you look at the statistics.

My link in the post you just replied to is from 2012, Genius.

Go on and flail away. You cannot snark your way out of this one.

[citdog]

1 billion dollars.


http://ralemonade.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/dr-evil-copy.jpg

[CID1990]

YOU posted a linked with the $56 million fund, not average per student. Of course the cit's per student average is higher, my high school was larger than the citadel.

Well, you said it.

A school with just 2,300 students not only has a larger total endowment than ASU, but the endowment per student is light years away.

[citdog]

Your 2008 link is still half a decade out of date and obsolete, no matter how you look at the statistics.


2012 was LAST year unless you're a member of the tribe. then it was 5772.

[Apphole]

If ALL I had was football success, at a level you disparage at every opportunity, that's probably what I would focus on as well.

You're starting to sound like a Cee fan. We have success in pretty much everything BUT basketball.

Comish Cup. Shutty.

[GlassOnion]

Nobody was arguing the per student average you twit. My originial post stated that the endowment funds were virtually identical.

You came into the middle of a discussion between two other posters, both of whom were using and citing the Total Fund, and completely changed the parameters, and then pat yourself on the back for winning an argument NO ONE ELSE was making. WTG Don Quixote.

[citdog]

You're starting to sound like a Cee fan. We have success in pretty much everything BUT basketball.

Comish Cup. Shutty.


ah yes the old boone two step! usually employed when COMPLETELY OWNED BY FACTS THAT DISAGREE WITH WHAT THEY WANT THEM TO BE.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFGcVWeFG8U

[Apphole]

ah yes the old boone two step! usually employed when COMPLETELY OWNED BY FACTS THAT DISAGREE WITH WHAT THEY WANT THEM TO BE.

What facts have you presented? You piggy backed on a Furple fan who was having a rational discussion comparing institutional funding and inserted your typical bunch of "nana-nana-boo-boo your wrong bull ****." You bring nothing of value to this forum.

[citdog]

Nobody was arguing the per student average you twit. My originial post stated that the endowment funds were virtually identical.

You came into the middle of a discussion between two other posters, both of whom were using and citing the Total Fund, and completely changed the parameters, and then pat yourself on the back for winning an argument NO ONE ELSE was making. WTG Don Quixote.


why don't you just admit you were WRONG? It's much more becoming than descending into mplsbison territory when OWNED BY FACTS. When compared to the MIGHTY CITADEL appy st has 'endowment issues'. NOBODY IS SURPRISED BY THAT.

[citdog]

What facts have you presented? You piggy backed on a Furple fan who was having a rational discussion comparing institutional funding and inserted your typical bunch of "nana-nana-boo-boo your wrong bull ****." You bring nothing of value to this forum.


HALL OF FAME.

GET BACK TO ME WHEN IT COMES CALLING FOR YOU.

[Apphole]

HALL OF FAME.

GET BACK TO ME WHEN IT COMES CALLING FOR YOU.

You are an entertaining poster whose been refreshing the page here for a decade. When it comes to actual discourse and knowledge, I'll take pretty much anyone else's word over yours.

[citdog]

You are an entertaining poster whose been refreshing the page here for a decade. When it comes to actual discourse and knowledge, I'll take pretty much anyone else's word over yours.


butthurt?


thousands of people seem to think I know a little.

[GlassOnion]

Just remember the MIGHTY Citadel is so great, you spend an enormous amount of time on a football forum, trying not to mention Citadel football.

2 seasons in 12.

[citdog]

Just remember the MIGHTY Citadel is so great, you spend an enormous amount of time on a football forum, trying not to mention Citadel football.

2 seasons in 12.

over 160 years of EXCELLENCE.

[GlassOnion]

over 160 years of EXCELLENCE.

2 in 12 is the product of a 160 year head start ? Citadel football usually floats lower in the rankings, than a terd floats in fresh water.

[Apphole]

Poor man's Westpoint.

[citdog]

2 in 12 is the product of a 160 year head start ? Citadel football usually floats lower in the rankings, than a terd floats in fresh water.


again you have NOTHING but football success. I see why you focus so much on it.

[citdog]

Poor man's Westpoint.


poor mans unc charlotte

[asumike83]

again you have NOTHING but football success. I see why you focus so much on it.

I mean, seriously, who focuses on football in a college football forum?! What an idiot!

[GlassOnion]

football success. I see why you focus so much on it.

Holy crap! Citdog has finally figured it out!

He's answered the eternal question: "Why an App fan, is obsessed with FOOTBALL success, on a FOOTBALL FORUM?"

[PaladinFan]

Point remains the same. People gripe about how some of these institutions block the inclusion of schools they don't want in the conference. I have no idea how true that is, but the schools that appear to do the blocking are the ones that have the deepest pockets.

I really haven't developed the idea, but one cannot help but think the exclusion of Coastal (to this point) is as much financial as it is anything else. I am sure there is incentive for some of these schools not to include universities that may have difficulty standing and delivering when called upon. I'm not sure if SoCon schools ever have to pass the hat, but I'm sure it's not unheard of.

[citdog]

I mean, seriously, who focuses on football in a college football forum?! What an idiot!


who comes in late to a discussion that has nothing to do with football and inserts their two bits? mike 83 that's who. What a SCHMUCK.

[GlassOnion]

who comes in late to a discussion that has nothing to do with football and inserts their two bits? mike 83 that's who. What a SCHMUCK.

You didnt seem to have a problem with another citadel fan coming in late and trying to fight your battle for you.

[asumike83]

who comes in late to a discussion that has nothing to do with football and inserts their two bits? mike 83 that's who. What a SCHMUCK.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vx5E-YpzY4w/TZu0wcKfkZI/AAAAAAAACMA/Vt_7vakarjw/s1600/PANTIES_IN_A_BUNCH.jpg

[GlassOnion]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vx5E-YpzY4w/TZu0wcKfkZI/AAAAAAAACMA/Vt_7vakarjw/s1600/PANTIES_IN_A_BUNCH.jpg

xoutofrepx

[citdog]

Holy crap! Citdog has finally figured it out!

He's answered the eternal question: "Why an App fan, is obsessed with FOOTBALL success, on a FOOTBALL FORUM?"

the discussion was about endowment and appy st's lack of competitiveness in that arena. when apphole incorrectly stated that "app has the most money" IT WAS ON! As usual when ANY facts that don't make you look good are presented you go to the quiver and say "we win football games".

[CID1990]

Just remember the MIGHTY Citadel is so great, you spend an enormous amount of time on a football forum, trying not to mention Citadel football.

2 seasons in 12.

Again, as I have pointed out, that's ASU's priority. Other schools are different. Nothing wrong with it being important to you, but the assertion that ASU is even close to being a financial giant in the SoCon in addition to a football giant is incorrect. And it was an ASU fan who brought it up, so don't get your panties in a wad just because someone who knows different decided to point it out.

[citdog]

You didnt seem to have a problem with another citadel fan coming in late and trying to fight your battle for you.


an app fan whining about getting ganged up on by superior numbers on AGS? NOW I've heard it ALL!

[citdog]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Vx5E-YpzY4w/TZu0wcKfkZI/AAAAAAAACMA/Vt_7vakarjw/s1600/PANTIES_IN_A_BUNCH.jpg



the only panties in a bunch belong to yosef after the atomic wedgie '90 and myself applied on this thread.

[GlassOnion]

Again, as I have pointed out, that's ASU's priority. Other schools are different. Nothing wrong with it being important to you, but the assertion that ASU is even close to being a financial giant in the SoCon in addition to a football giant is incorrect. And it was an ASU fan who brought it up, so don't get your panties in a wad just because someone who knows different decided to point it out.

Oh please. App's priority is football? Our academics have advanced drastically, our APR is top 10% in the nation, both our academic and athletics facilities, have been massively upgraded. Even our admissions requirements are higher.

We are an educational institution, and do it damn well.

[citdog]

Oh please. App's priority is football? Our academics have advanced drastically, our APR is top 10% in the nation, both our academic and athletics facilities, have been massively upgraded. Even our admissions requirements are higher.

We are an educational institution, and do it damn well.

but not as well as the schools that you chose to pick a fight with.

[GlassOnion]

but not as well as the schools that you chose to pick a fight with.

Compare the #s between App and Cit.

App does it better academically and athletically, and with less money.

[citdog]

Compare the #s between App and Cit.

App does it better academically and athletically, and with less money.


who is the #1 Public College in the South again?

[asumike83]

the only panties in a bunch belong to yosef after the atomic wedgie '90 and myself applied on this thread.

I'm looking forward to another good football season, enjoying the beginning of another good baseball season and approaching for the conclusion of a basketball season in which we may somehow come away with the #4 seed and a bye in the SoCon tournament in spite of some very inconsistent play.

My degree is still working very well for me, I've been gainfully employed since the day I left Boone and I have no student loans to pay off. Undergarments are in good condition over here, thanks.

[asumike83]

who is the #1 Public College in the South again?

In all seriousness, The Citadel is a damn fine institution. Congrats on being the #1 rated Regional University in the South among public schools.

However, I would like to point out that Appalachian is the #3 public Regional University in the South. Our academics have improved drastically and when considering costs, ASU is tough to beat.

[AshevilleApp2]

Sure am looking forward to ETSU and VMI coming back!

[GlassOnion]

Sure am looking forward to ETSU and VMI coming back!

Me too, because it will mean we're out of the Socon. The "remnants" like to point out that the Socon has always survived re-alignment, but fail to recognise that it gets more irrelevant each time. Not something I'd like to be apart of.

[citdog]

Me too, because it will mean we're out of the Socon. The "remnants" like to point out that the Socon has always survived re-alignment, but fail to recognise that it gets more irrelevant each time. Not something I'd like to be apart of.


guess you'll have to find SOMEONE, ANYONE, to invite you.

[Saint3333]

I don't want to get in the way with some facts for this group but App is now harder to get into than Citadel even with having a student body five times the size.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/info

http://admissions.appstate.edu/freshmen

Both are excellent schools.

[GlassOnion]

guess you'll have to find SOMEONE, ANYONE, to invite you.

Oh Citdog, I forgot you were there. You may go now.

[citdog]

I don't want to get in the way with some facts for this group but App is now harder to get into than Citadel even with having a student body five times the size.

http://www.citadel.edu/root/info

http://admissions.appstate.edu/freshmen

Both are excellent schools.

It isn't difficult to STAY at app.