Monmouth football

[dgreco]

http://blogs.app.com/hawks


We look forward to continuing our partnership with Monmouth in the sport of field hockey, and wish Monmouth success in the sports of football and bowling as they seek new partnerships in those sports.”

[DFW HOYA]

PL or Big South?

[danefan]

Wow. Didn't see that coming.

[danefan]

I assume they've already tried the CAA before they applied to the NEC.

If that's the case then I suspect they'll take Stony Brook's spot in the Big South.
If not there, then they're PFL bound with MAAC conference mate Marist.

The latter is unlikely, but certainly possible.

[DFW HOYA]

If not there, then they're PFL bound with MAAC conference mate Marist. The latter is unlikely, but certainly possible.

Not with Monmouth's 40 scholarships.

[danefan]

Not with Monmouth's 40 scholarships.

Easier to get rid of scholarships then it is to find a new conference or play independent.

[aceinthehole]

Wow. Didn't see that coming.

I didn't either. I see the Big South as more likely than the PL, but we shall see. I have no doubt MU has/will apply to the Patriot, but it is up to the PL Presidents. Big South would suck for travel and rivals, but at least they would be able to scheudle and have access to the AQ.


When Monmouth University decided to accept an invitation to join the MAAC, they did so with full knowledge that the MAAC did not sponsor the sports of football
IMO - this is also bad news for America East. After this decision and the NEC statement , there is no way I see Bryant and/or CCSU leaving for the AE until a football soulution is available.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Wow. Didn't see that coming.

xlolx

[danefan]

The NEC has now religated itself to a life of terrible non-conference schedules.

They will only have 6 league games each and there is a league rule that forbids playing Sub-DI games.

Something has to budge and I don't see it being a benefit for the NEC either way.

Why wouldn't the NEC just put them on a year-by-year contract? The league would have had all the power over Monmouth. Use them to keep stability and scheduling ease and boot them when they found a suitable replacemnent.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What I will say is that now Monmouth needs to come up with a solution fast. Plan A was clearly to stay in the NEC in football. Now it's time for Plan B, which involves the PL, Big South, or maybe even the PFL.

[RichH2]

NEC sent warning to members. Surprised. IMO hurts NEC more than helps.

[DFW HOYA]

The Pioneer is full at 12. The Patriot will not get around to expanding in football unless Fordham and/or Georgetown leave. Monmouth probably prefers the Big South but it would take a step up in funding.

It could play as an independent for a few years and then survey the landscape then. If the CAA lost another school or two to the C-USA/Sun Belt morass, perhaps they would be in the discussion.

[aceinthehole]

The NEC has now religated itself to a life of terrible non-conference schedules.

They will only have 6 league games each and there is a league rule that forbids playing Sub-DI games.

Something has to budge and I don't see it being a benefit for the NEC either way.

Why wouldn't the NEC just put them on a year-by-year contract? The league would have had all the power over Monmouth. Use them to keep stability and scheduling ease and boot them when they found a suitable replacemnent.

Agreed. A 6-game league slate will suck. I do expect most NEC teams to extend a non-conf schedul to Monmouth next year. CCSU was lucky that they were able to keep Albany and URI on the schedule as non-conf games. I can't imagine the rest of the NEC can afford to lose 3 games that had planned to schedule next year.

I don't know why the NEC didn't offer Monmouth the "PL-Fordham" deal - allow a full NEC schedule but discqualify them from the AQ bid.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why wouldn't the NEC just put them on a year-by-year contract? The league would have had all the power over Monmouth. Use them to keep stability and scheduling ease and boot them when they found a suitable replacemnent.

It's not that simple. Perhaps the NEC presidents didn't want to swallow their pride to defend limited-scholarship football and thought that a seven-team league would still have an autobid so it wasn't a big deal to cast them out.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Patriot will not get around to expanding in football unless Fordham and/or Georgetown leave.

I do not believe this to be true. I'm not saying Monmouth will go PL, but the commissioner has said consistently they want another 1-2 teams in football, even with the ever-present "we will take our time with this" statements.

[dgreco]

I didn't either. I see the Big South as more likely than the PL, but we shall see. I have no doubt MU has/will apply to the Patriot, but it is up to the PL Presidents. Big South would suck for travel and rivals, but at least they would be able to scheudle and have access to the AQ.


IMO - this is also bad news for America East. After this decision and the NEC statement , there is no way I see Bryant and/or CCSU leaving for the AE until a football soulution is available.

Which could be why we have not heard anything on that front in some time.

Either way, I am surprised about this and it seems to only hurt the NEC. Scheduling 5-6 OOC games a year will be very difficult.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The NEC Council of Presidents evaluated the associate membership requests separately, and in doing so made their decisions relative to the long term stability and interests of the Conference.

This means the NEC presidents don't think an 8th football team is in the "long-term stability and interests of the Conference". What other interpretation can there be?

[Original_RMC]

Shocked by the news and agree with others that this only hurts the NEC.

[DFW HOYA]

I do not believe this to be true. I'm not saying Monmouth will go PL, but the commissioner has said consistently they want another 1-2 teams in football, even with the ever-present "we will take our time with this" statements.

I think we agree, only that the presidents will inevitably stall on adding schools in the furtive hope that the usual suspects (UR, W&M, Nova) will "come around" and therefore the PL won't have to stoop to Monmouth or Bryant or Marist in the process.

I do think at some point Fordham will campaign, successfully or not, to join the CAA. (One hint to this will be when/if they announce to add a second side of stands to Jack Coffey to make it a 14-15K field.) For Georgetown, the severe scholarship imbalance will become untenable at some point. At either of those scenarios, the PL will take whatever they can get to protect the autobid.

[Original_RMC]

Could perhaps the NEC has some interest from other programs that could be announced soon to replace teams they have lost?

[iBOsbu]

IMO - this is also bad news for America East. After this decision and the NEC statement , there is no way I see Bryant and/or CCSU leaving for the AE until a football soulution is available.

Its probably more bad news for CCSU than AE, now that they can't join AE leaving their football in NEC assuming AE invites them.

[henfan]

Its probably more bad news for CCSU than AE, now that they can't join AE leaving their football in NEC assuming AE invites them.

Would it be possible that Bryant and CCSU would join the AEC and they and MU would proceed to tell the NEC to go f_ themselves? Would the 5 remaining FB members really want to jeopardize their FB conference on principle? While I understand and agree with the philosophy, they might be doing this at their own peril.

[iBOsbu]

Would it be possible that Bryant and CCSU would join the AEC and they and MU would proceed to tell the NEC to go f_ themselves? Would the 5 remaining FB members really want to jeopardize their FB conference on principle? While I understand and agree with the philosophy, they might be doing this at their own peril.

Possible but not likely. I just mentioned in another board that I would rather see SBU, UNH, Maine and Albany stay in the CAA for football. We are still playing each other and get to play Delaware, Towson, Nova, JMU instead of Monmouth, Bryant, CCSU etc. But one option obviously is that one of Bryant or CCSU join AEC all sports and CAA football only (because of the pressure from northern CAA/AEC members?!). It would make CAA more stable with 12 teams 2 conferences. But I just don't see southern CAA football members wanting to add any of those two (Bryant or CCSU) to CAA football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Could perhaps the NEC has some interest from other programs that could be announced soon to replace teams they have lost?

The possible programs are either the D-I usual suspects (Delaware State, Morgan State) or D-II move-ups (LIU-C.W. Post, California (PA)).

[aceinthehole]

But one option obviously is that one of Bryant or CCSU join AEC all sports and CAA football only (because of the pressure from northern CAA/AEC members?!). It would make CAA more stable with 12 teams 2 conferences. But I just don't see southern CAA football members wanting to add any of those two (Bryant or CCSU) to CAA football.

I agree this is a possibility, especially if the AE feels they need olympic sports members.

Next season the AE will have just 8 members - that is a 14-game basketball schedule. The AE is at the AQ minimum in baseball, and I presume other sports. So if the AE really needs olympic sports members like Bryant and CCSU, they may have to "influence" CAA Football (which is chartered speratly from the CAA) to add these schools or find schools that don't have football.

At this point there is no perfect scenario for anyone. For now the NEC will move on at 10 schools for hoops and 7 for football; the AE will have 8 members and will not sponsor football; and the CAA will have 10 for hoops and 11 in its football league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At this point there is no perfect scenario for anyone. For now the NEC will move on at 10 schools for hoops and 7 for football; the AE will have 8 members and will not sponsor football; and the CAA will have 10 for hoops and 11 in its football league.

The funniest thing of all is that NJIT still doesn't have a conference to call home. The NEC doesn't need an 11th hoops school and the AE doesn't need a 9th hoops school. Though it does give the NEC flexibility, if, say, LIU-C.W. Post moves up and wants to play football. Then they could accept them both and have 8 football schools and 12 hoops/Olympic.

[iBOsbu]

At this point there is no perfect scenario for anyone. For now the NEC will move on at 10 schools for hoops and 7 for football; the AE will have 8 members and will not sponsor football; and the CAA will have 10 for hoops and 11 in its football league.

Unless, JMU gets an FBS invitation (which has a 50/50 chance imo) from one of sunbelt or cusa, then CAAFB would be pretty stable with 10 members, 5 northern and 5 southern.

[iBOsbu]

The funniest thing of all is that NJIT still doesn't have a conference to call home. The NEC doesn't need an 11th hoops school and the AE doesn't need a 9th hoops school. Though it does give the NEC flexibility, if, say, LIU-C.W. Post moves up and wants to play football. Then they could accept them both and have 8 football schools and 12 hoops/Olympic.

I think NJIT would be a great fit in NEC.

[Seahawks Fan]

Could perhaps the NEC has some interest from other programs that could be announced soon to replace teams they have lost?

Surprised by the Monmouth decision and yes I think the NEC has some prospects for new football members. Otherwise excluding Monmouth doesn't make much sense.

[Franks Tanks]

The possible programs are either the D-I usual suspects (Delaware State, Morgan State) or D-II move-ups (LIU-C.W. Post, California (PA)).

Cal (Pa) is out for sure. Their President was fired by the state in part for using impermissable state funds on athletics. As I understand he was using funds that were intended for other things to fund scholarships. Cal will be losing a ton of scholarships, and should go back to being terrible soon.

[dgreco]

I thought IUP was the PA school? Was CAL PA ever on the "list?"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My thoughts on all of this:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2013/01/realignmentaggedon-monmouths-bid-nec.html

[Fordham]

I think we agree, only that the presidents will inevitably stall on adding schools in the furtive hope that the usual suspects (UR, W&M, Nova) will "come around" and therefore the PL won't have to stoop to Monmouth or Bryant or Marist in the process.

I do think at some point Fordham will campaign, successfully or not, to join the CAA. (One hint to this will be when/if they announce to add a second side of stands to Jack Coffey to make it a 14-15K field.) For Georgetown, the severe scholarship imbalance will become untenable at some point. At either of those scenarios, the PL will take whatever they can get to protect the autobid.

you've been saying this for years and I've kept telling you that the school loves the PL affiliation and isn't looking to go anywhere. Do you really believe we waited through the time-out period where we couldn't win the AQ or have our kids get individual recognition with end of year awards so that NOW we can take off and leave. No way.

[Go...gate]

you've been saying this for years and I've kept telling you that the school loves the PL affiliation and isn't looking to go anywhere. Do you really believe we waited through the time-out period where we couldn't win the AQ or have our kids get individual recognition with end of year awards so that NOW we can take off and leave. No way.

Agree. PL is a good fit for Fordham. Why leave after they led the scholarship battle?

Hypothetically, if Monmouth joined the PL for football, they would not have to offer 63 scholarships. As I understand it, the scholarship policy is permissive, not mandatory. Member football schools MAY give up to 60. Monmouth could conceivably join with 35 - 40 scholarships and stay there, or add as they see fit.

Monmouth's geography is also very compatible with the conference.

[LUHawker]

Let's hope the PL presidents don't further water down the league with Monmouth. More conference shifting is forthcoming in FCS, so I think the PL has the luxury of time.

[Franks Tanks]

I thought IUP was the PA school? Was CAL PA ever on the "list?"

IUP has been the most successful PA D-II school in football for a few decades, but Cal sort of came out of nowhere a few years ago. Cal is in extreme SW PA near West Virginia and in a very poor area. IUP is also rural, but would have a much better shot at FCS football, but still rather unlikely.

[DFW HOYA]

I freely admit that I've never quite understood what the PL offers Fordham that the CAA/A-10 does not. Fordham now spends at the highest levels of the subdivision and by 2014 will be able to offer the same number as any CAA school, if only that the premise of the Index makes it more palatable to Rev. McShane and others. But I do think that Stony Brook's rising star in football does not go unnoticed at Rose Hill and that may lead some discussion (post-McShane) on football's strategic positioning.

[CFBfan]

Let's hope the PL presidents don't further water down the league with Monmouth. More conference shifting is forthcoming in FCS, so I think the PL has the luxury of time.

I do NOT intend to sound "up-ity" here however, monmouth players are definetly different than PL players and not in a good way.
I don't know how you turn your back on Bryant and then welcome Monmouth

[Go...gate]

Let's hope the PL presidents don't further water down the league with Monmouth. More conference shifting is forthcoming in FCS, so I think the PL has the luxury of time.

I think that waiting is also appropriate.

[RichH2]

No compelling need or reason to expand now, except if it is on PL terms. Agree shifting not done yet in NE FCS. Lets see how this continues to pan out. Much will depend on PL success or lack thereof with schollies. We wont know that for 2-3 years.

[LUHawker]

I do NOT intend to sound "up-ity" here however, monmouth players are definetly different than PL players and not in a good way.
I don't know how you turn your back on Bryant and then welcome Monmouth

Not sure what post you might be responding to, but mine clearly doesn't welcome Monmouth; nor Bryant for that matter.

[citdog]

Not sure what post you might be responding to, but mine clearly doesn't welcome Monmouth; nor Bryant for that matter.


now you're the one sounding uppity.

[Original_RMC]

Monmouth's only option is the Big South.

[CFBfan]

Not sure what post you might be responding to, but mine clearly doesn't welcome Monmouth; nor Bryant for that matter.

I wasn't implying you did LUH....the "you" in "turn your back" i was referring to was the PL

[downbythebeach]

Agreed

They will go to the big south or be indy for a couple years until the next shake up

The NEC probably saw more leaving if they allowed Monmouth to be an associate. Hurts the NEC and Monmouth.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People are bandying about the Big South as if playing football games at Chuck South and Coastal are a long-term solution. In reality, Liberty has been very candid about their desire to move to FBS and when that happens, what happens to the Big South?

It is a colossal mistake IMO to equate Stony Brook's and Monmouth's situations and worldviews, or to say in terms of the league, "well, Stony Brook worked, so Monmouth will be more of same."

[ngineer]

I think we agree, only that the presidents will inevitably stall on adding schools in the furtive hope that the usual suspects (UR, W&M, Nova) will "come around" and therefore the PL won't have to stoop to Monmouth or Bryant or Marist in the process.

I do think at some point Fordham will campaign, successfully or not, to join the CAA. (One hint to this will be when/if they announce to add a second side of stands to Jack Coffey to make it a 14-15K field.) For Georgetown, the severe scholarship imbalance will become untenable at some point. At either of those scenarios, the PL will take whatever they can get to protect the autobid.
They can't do that without another place to play baseball. They have a nice baseball facility constructed. I can't see that happening.

[Libertine]

People are bandying about the Big South as if playing football games at Chuck South and Coastal are a long-term solution. In reality, Liberty has been very candid about their desire to move to FBS and when that happens, what happens to the Big South?

It is a colossal mistake IMO to equate Stony Brook's and Monmouth's situations and worldviews, or to say in terms of the league, "well, Stony Brook worked, so Monmouth will be more of same."

I think we can all agree that there is no such thing as a long-term solution in college football these days. However, if Monmouth joins the Big South, it does save the Big South autobid in the eventuality of Liberty's departure.

[ccd494]

People are bandying about the Big South as if playing football games at Chuck South and Coastal are a long-term solution. In reality, Liberty has been very candid about their desire to move to FBS and when that happens, what happens to the Big South?

It is a colossal mistake IMO to equate Stony Brook's and Monmouth's situations and worldviews, or to say in terms of the league, "well, Stony Brook worked, so Monmouth will be more of same."

Who is saying this is a long term solution? Monmouth just needs somewhere to park for a few years while they wait for something to change.

[aceinthehole]

Who is saying this is a long term solution? Monmouth just needs somewhere to park for a few years while they wait for something to change.

Exactly - MU needs a schedule for the next few years. Joining the Big South makes it a little easier. They will likely get enough NEC/PL/CAA teams as non-conf opponents to round out their schedule.

I think Monmouth could also go Indy for the short-term and fill up on mostly NEC teams - I think denying them associate mebership was a clear message to Wagner, Bryant and CCSU. I am also guessing that most NEC schools will still schedule the Hawks in home/home deals, because they aren't getting many other non-conf teams to play at NEC stadiums (and they have more non-conf openings on their slate).

[LUHawker]

now you're the one sounding uppity.

I make no bones about my disdain for adding Monmouth to the PL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who is saying this is a long term solution? Monmouth just needs somewhere to park for a few years while they wait for something to change.

So they're going to go through all the trouble to join a conference in football, see it potentially blow apart in a month, a year, two years, or ten years, and then have to go through the entire process again?

If their worldview is "two years and see what happens", I agree with others that say that indy is the way to go. Again, this is not Stony Brook who needed a 63 scholarship place to park their program on the way up. This is a small, private institution that is looking for a place to compete in FCS for now and the forseeable future. They are not looking for a quick fix or to do more conference jumping.

[danefan]

So they're going to go through all the trouble to join a conference in football, see it potentially blow apart in a month, a year, two years, or ten years, and then have to go through the entire process again?

If their worldview is "two years and see what happens", I agree with others that say that indy is the way to go. Again, this is not Stony Brook who needed a 63 scholarship place to park their program on the way up. This is a small, private institution that is looking for a place to compete in FCS for now and the forseeable future. They are not looking for a quick fix or to do more conference jumping.

This is Monmouth who needs a 40 scholarship place to park their program on the way to anywhere.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think we agree, only that the presidents will inevitably stall on adding schools in the furtive hope that the usual suspects (UR, W&M, Nova) will "come around" and therefore the PL won't have to stoop to Monmouth or Bryant or Marist in the process.


I make no bones about my disdain for adding Monmouth to the PL.

Plus ca change.... xlolx LU Hawker and I will always agree to disagree on this, methinks.

But I fail to see the disdain in putting in a football-only member. My philosophy has always been: if a school wants to play by the PL rules, and they want to rub elbows with us and hang out with us, why wouldn't we? To me, the benefits of an 8th football team in the PL well outweigh anything else.

Having said that, I'm not saying Monmouth wants to hang out with us. But if they ask, why on Gods Green Earth should we turn them away?

[fc97]

if monmouth, bryant and ccsu go to the big south as a bloc, then they could guarantee 2 games north every year between those teams in a big south conference and minimize the travel. then it is only 3 other away games per year that they have to go south. that's honestly not terrible. and it could be the best bet for them, they have the ability to do what they want in scholarships from 0-63 and still be in contention for the playoffs while the nec loses

[CFBfan]

Plus ca change.... xlolx LU Hawker and I will always agree to disagree on this, methinks.

But I fail to see the disdain in putting in a football-only member. My philosophy has always been: if a school wants to play by the PL rules, and they want to rub elbows with us and hang out with us, why wouldn't we? To me, the benefits of an 8th football team in the PL well outweigh anything else.

Having said that, I'm not saying Monmouth wants to hang out with us. But if they ask, why on Gods Green Earth should we turn them away?

IMO I think very few on the current roster would qualify with the AI

[citdog]

I make no bones about my disdain for adding Monmouth to the PL.


I make no bones about my disdain for the PL in general.

[CFBfan]

I make no bones about my disdain for the PL in general.

a little thing called the academic index would have precluded you from attending anyway so that works out great for all parties!

[citdog]

a little thing called the academic index would have precluded you from attending anyway so that works out great for all parties!

actually I wasn't interested in being a 'foreign exchange student'.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5FCJeE8nh4

[iBOsbu]

if monmouth, bryant and ccsu go to the big south as a bloc, then they could guarantee 2 games north every year between those teams in a big south conference and minimize the travel. then it is only 3 other away games per year that they have to go south. that's honestly not terrible. and it could be the best bet for them, they have the ability to do what they want in scholarships from 0-63 and still be in contention for the playoffs while the nec loses

Not a bad idea

[LUHawker]

Plus ca change.... xlolx LU Hawker and I will always agree to disagree on this, methinks.

But I fail to see the disdain in putting in a football-only member. My philosophy has always been: if a school wants to play by the PL rules, and they want to rub elbows with us and hang out with us, why wouldn't we? To me, the benefits of an 8th football team in the PL well outweigh anything else.

Having said that, I'm not saying Monmouth wants to hang out with us. But if they ask, why on Gods Green Earth should we turn them away?

Yes, it is clear, LFN, for years now, that you and I will are seemingly destined to disagree on the composition of the Patriot League. xrotatehx You view it more through the prism of a purely athletic affiliation; I believe that the Patriot League has come to represent more than that and that Academic stature, history, and similarity of student are key considerations when thinking about which schools might be suitable fits.

Per your own statement above regarding your philosophy, you have no such discerning requirements. I do not place the benefits of any 8th football team in the PL above the potential detriments of that 8th member. Unfortunately, your statement by its very nature, shows no disciminant thinking in considering the suitability of another member.

To answer your question explicitly, the PL should turn Monmouth away because of the following (as a sampling):

Low academic stature relative to the PL institution
No history with the PL
Significantly different student body
Brings no qualitative benefits to the league

For the record, I have nothing personally against Monmouth; I just don't think it belongs in the PL.

[ccd494]

So they're going to go through all the trouble to join a conference in football, see it potentially blow apart in a month, a year, two years, or ten years, and then have to go through the entire process again?

If their worldview is "two years and see what happens", I agree with others that say that indy is the way to go. Again, this is not Stony Brook who needed a 63 scholarship place to park their program on the way up. This is a small, private institution that is looking for a place to compete in FCS for now and the forseeable future. They are not looking for a quick fix or to do more conference jumping.

They can always go indy later. But if they can go Big South for now and have the conference schedule the majority of their games for them, why not? It seems like way more effort to call every FCS school on the East Coast and beg for 11/12 games than it does to call the Big South, ask to join, and then find 4/5 non-conference games. And if the Big South explodes? They are in the same spot as they were if they had just gone independent in the first place.

[RichH2]

A couple of yrs in BigS building aid up to 60+ schollies a good way for MU to develop. Only means I see for them to get viable options for permanent conference.

[superman7515]

if monmouth, bryant and ccsu go to the big south as a bloc, then they could guarantee 2 games north every year between those teams in a big south conference and minimize the travel. then it is only 3 other away games per year that they have to go south. that's honestly not terrible. and it could be the best bet for them, they have the ability to do what they want in scholarships from 0-63 and still be in contention for the playoffs while the nec loses

They could call it the Big East.

[van]

Yes, it is clear, LFN, for years now, that you and I will are seemingly destined to disagree on the composition of the Patriot League. xrotatehx You view it more through the prism of a purely athletic affiliation; I believe that the Patriot League has come to represent more than that and that Academic stature, history, and similarity of student are key considerations when thinking about which schools might be suitable fits.

Per your own statement above regarding your philosophy, you have no such discerning requirements. I do not place the benefits of any 8th football team in the PL above the potential detriments of that 8th member. Unfortunately, your statement by its very nature, shows no disciminant thinking in considering the suitability of another member.

To answer your question explicitly, the PL should turn Monmouth away because of the following (as a sampling):

Low academic stature relative to the PL institution
No history with the PL
Significantly different student body
Brings no qualitative benefits to the league

For the record, I have nothing personally against Monmouth; I just don't think it belongs in the PL.

+1

[superman7515]

Significantly different student body

Too many minorities.

[ngineer]

Too many minorities.

Wrong interpretation. Monmouth does not fall within the academic footprint of the PL. Race/ethnics has nothing to do with it. The PL schools are highly competitive just to get in, and tough to stay in. There aren't places wear you can 'hide' athletes for a couple years.

[DFW HOYA]

To answer your question explicitly, the PL should turn Monmouth away because of the following (as a sampling):

Low academic stature relative to the PL institution
No history with the PL
Significantly different student body
Brings no qualitative benefits to the league


By that argument, Georgetown and Fordham should have been denied entrance for failing on points #2, #3, and #4.

The unsaid bias here is that, for some the Monmouth "brand" is neither august nor esteemed enough to be alongside Colgate, Lehigh, etc. If RPI or Hopkins wanted to join, they'd be accepted with great fanfare despite the huge competitive hill they would have to climb, whereas schools like Monmouth, Bryant, or Robert Morris are looked down upon as not being "academic" (read=old) enough.

[superman7515]

Wrong interpretation. Monmouth does not fall within the academic footprint of the PL. Race/ethnics has nothing to do with it. The PL schools are highly competitive just to get in, and tough to stay in. There aren't places wear you can 'hide' athletes for a couple years.

You're right. Only 15 black males accepted into Lafayette in 2005, and only one of those was not there directly due to athletic recruitment, so clearly the race and ethnicity of the students there is comparable to those at Monmouth.

[RichH2]

Aw supe, using Pards as your basis a bit disengenuous. LC has its ongoing identity crisis. Academic standards are by their nature restrictive across the board regardless of race, gender etc. If you want to make the claim that PL is somehow racist because of those academic standards, you would have to show that otherwise qualified applicants were denied admission due to their race.

[superman7515]

Well I wasn't being serious at all, just making a joke about the "significantly different student body" comment. Then someone tried to make it sound like you couldn't say Laffy was a little whiter than Monmouth and I just wanted to point out, it's a little whiter than Nome.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They can always go indy later. But if they can go Big South for now and have the conference schedule the majority of their games for them, why not? It seems like way more effort to call every FCS school on the East Coast and beg for 11/12 games than it does to call the Big South, ask to join, and then find 4/5 non-conference games. And if the Big South explodes? They are in the same spot as they were if they had just gone independent in the first place.

Finish the thought... making the EXACT SAME DECISION with the EXACT SAME CONFERENCES they would today.

Unless... is there some brand-new FCS conference in the Northeast that's forming that I don't know about?

[Libertine]

Finish the thought... making the EXACT SAME DECISION with the EXACT SAME CONFERENCES they would today.


Yes, it's the exact same decision down the road. Why is that a bad thing? It's like this: if you're floating on a liferaft in the ocean -- which is basically what being an FCS independent is at this point -- do you board the ship willing to pick you up or do you wait for a ship more to your liking that may or may not be over the horizon?

[heath]

for some reason,I think the whole scholarship issue with PL football will automatically lower standards and teams that want to win and go to the playoffs will indeed recruit and somehow get in kids that would not have been even looked at 5 years ago. Its the nature of the beast. So meeting Monmouth half way would make sense.Can that be done?

[Go...gate]

In fairness to Monmouth, they have come a long way. The school was founded in the depths of the Depression and it has been thoughtfully and carefully built up over time, with wise use of limited resources. Twenty-five years from now, when they finish their first century, I predict their profile will be much higher and stronger.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes, it's the exact same decision down the road. Why is that a bad thing? It's like this: if you're floating on a liferaft in the ocean -- which is basically what being an FCS independent is at this point -- do you board the ship willing to pick you up or do you wait for a ship more to your liking that may or may not be over the horizon?

That's not a valid analogy. It would be valid if the decision was "jump in this boat or nothing". But there could be more than one boat in this scenario.

A possibility that nobody is mentioning is the MEAC. They could take on both Monmouth's bowling and football teams together, killing two birds with one stone, and also have 3 bus-ride schools that are closer to Monmouth than the northernmost members of the Big South (with Hampton and Norfolk State next in line). Furthermore, a good chunk of those schools operate at 40 scholarships or less.

[RichH2]

Supe, lmao. LC has spent last yrs trying to morph into Bryn Mahr. Guess they are more successful than I thought.

[citdog]

Yes, it is clear, LFN, for years now, that you and I will are seemingly destined to disagree on the composition of the Patriot League. xrotatehx You view it more through the prism of a purely athletic affiliation; I believe that the Patriot League has come to represent more than that and that Academic stature, history, and similarity of student are key considerations when thinking about which schools might be suitable fits.

Per your own statement above regarding your philosophy, you have no such discerning requirements. I do not place the benefits of any 8th football team in the PL above the potential detriments of that 8th member. Unfortunately, your statement by its very nature, shows no disciminant thinking in considering the suitability of another member.

To answer your question explicitly, the PL should turn Monmouth away because of the following (as a sampling):

Low academic stature relative to the PL institution
No history with the PL
Significantly different student body
Brings no qualitative benefits to the league

For the record, I have nothing personally against Monmouth; I just don't think it belongs in the PL.

typical yankee racism.

some of your 'best friends' went to Monmouth i'll bet.

[DFW HOYA]

A possibility that nobody is mentioning is the MEAC. They could take on both Monmouth's bowling and football teams together, killing two birds with one stone, and also have 3 bus-ride schools that are closer to Monmouth than the northernmost members of the Big South (with Hampton and Norfolk State next in line). Furthermore, a good chunk of those schools operate at 40 scholarships or less.

The MEAC is highly unlikely, and not just for the HBCU reasons.

1. All but one of the MEAC schools (Hampton) are publicly funded (Howard, while private, receives a whopping $235 million in federal subsidies) and the conference was formed amnong schools with similar academic and admissions policies. Monmouth, as a private school with no discernible regaional or educational ties to the other schools, would have nothing in common with the MEAC as a whole.

2. Distance wise, Monmouth would be as close as 150 miles from the closest school (Del State) but as much as 1,000 miles from the furthest MEAC team (Bethune Cookman), not an insignificant consideration in a bus league such as the MEAC.

3. The MEAC does not need any additional membership. The CIAA added Chowan, a non-HBCU school, but that's the exception and reflected a need to add membership. No one is suggesting the MEAC is in an "expand or perish" situation.

4. The MEAC has never extended membership to football-only members, much less one without one of the hallmarks of a MEAC school: a marching band.

I have to think that Monmouth knew, though may not have predicted, that a NEC rejection was an option, and had a contingency plan which involves a temporary independent status or a Big South identity. Monmouth joins a group of eastern I-AA schools that do not play football in its home or an affiliated conference (the others being Duquesne, Fordham, Georgetown, Marist, Richmond, and Villanova, plus the AE schools) to which their barriers to move are much lower than a school with a committed conference relationship. In some way, maybe Monmouth left with this in mind.

[Franks Tanks]

Supe, lmao. LC has spent last yrs trying to morph into Bryn Mahr. Guess they are more successful than I thought.

Man they could probably round up a better team than us. Have you see those girls lately? xeekx

[superman7515]

The MEAC is highly unlikely, and not just for the HBCU reasons.

1. All but one of the MEAC schools (Hampton) are publicly funded (Howard, while private, receives a whopping $235 million in federal subsidies) and the conference was formed amnong schools with similar academic and admissions policies. Monmouth, as a private school with no discernible regaional or educational ties to the other schools, would have nothing in common with the MEAC as a whole.

2. Distance wise, Monmouth would be as close as 150 miles from the closest school (Del State) but as much as 1,000 miles from the furthest MEAC team (Bethune Cookman), not an insignificant consideration in a bus league such as the MEAC.

3. The MEAC does not need any additional membership. The CIAA added Chowan, a non-HBCU school, but that's the exception and reflected a need to add membership. No one is suggesting the MEAC is in an "expand or perish" situation.

4. The MEAC has never extended membership to football-only members, much less one without one of the hallmarks of a MEAC school: a marching band.

I have to think that Monmouth knew, though may not have predicted, that a NEC rejection was an option, and had a contingency plan which involves a temporary independent status or a Big South identity. Monmouth joins a group of eastern I-AA schools that do not play football in its home or an affiliated conference (the others being Duquesne, Fordham, Georgetown, Marist, Richmond, and Villanova, plus the AE schools) to which their barriers to move are much lower than a school with a committed conference relationship. In some way, maybe Monmouth left with this in mind.

1. You're right
2. The MEAC is not a bus league, that's one of the reasons South Carolina State's administration has been open with the public about looking at new conference affiliation, and they aren't even the furthest school in the south. FAMU & BCU bus to each other and Savannah State, everything else is a flight.

http://www.whereteamsplay.com/ncaa/map-usa-w570x320-coll-meac-final.gif

3. The MEAC does not need an additional member to keep their AQ, but they may need an additional member to keep all their members. The southern schools, most vocally South Carolina State, want another school added to cut travel costs. The best possible scenario for that is a school in the north:
North: Delaware State, Morgan State, Howard, Hampton, Norfolk State, Team X
South: North Carolina A&T, North Carolina Central, South Carolina State, Savannah State, Florida A&M, Bethune-Cookman

The reason being a school added in the south either splits the North Carolina schools apart (they get pi$$ed and it won't happen) or sends South Carolina State to the north (they get pi$$ed and leave so it won't happen). Talks about Coppin State adding football are proceeding slowly at best and despite the fact that UMES was only allowed back in the MEAC under the written stipulation they restart football within two years, it has been 22 and they are seemingly no closer.

4. Also true

[DFW HOYA]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I knew Howard had some federal support, but until I saw the total, I never knew how much it was. They get more federal support than many public schools get in state support.

And for anyone wondering, Monmouth's overall university budget is $144 million, with a football budget of $2.8 million.

[PAllen]

You're right. Only 15 black males accepted into Lafayette in 2005, and only one of those was not there directly due to athletic recruitment, so clearly the race and ethnicity of the students there is comparable to those at Monmouth.

You've got to be crapping me Supe. Then again, it is Lafayette. You can't expect them to do anything right.

[citdog]

You've got to be crapping me Supe. Then again, it is Lafayette. You can't expect them to do anything right.


You're right. Only 15 black males accepted into Lafayette in 2005, and only one of those was not there directly due to athletic recruitment, so clearly the race and ethnicity of the students there is comparable to those at Monmouth.


these same people HAVE THE GALL TO LOOK DOWN THEIR NOSES AT AND TO POINT TO THE SOUTH AS BEING RACIST. AT LEAST WE ALL LIVE, WORK, AND GO TO SCHOOL TOGETHER. PERHAPS A LITTLE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NEEDED IN THESE NORTHERN BASTIONS OF RACISM AND BIGOTRY. I BELIEVE I'LL BRING THIS TO THE NOTICE OF THEIR STATE CHAPTER OF THE NAACP AND SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOME PROTESTING GOING ON UP THERE. GET A COUPLE OF NEWS CAMERAS TO SHOW UP AND THAT WILL BRING AL AND JESSE OUT AND WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOMETHING CHANGED UP THERE. NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aor6-DkzBJ0

[mmiller_34]

these same people HAVE THE GALL TO LOOK DOWN THEIR NOSES AT AND TO POINT TO THE SOUTH AS BEING RACIST. AT LEAST WE ALL LIVE, WORK, AND GO TO SCHOOL TOGETHER. PERHAPS A LITTLE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IS NEEDED IN THESE NORTHERN BASTIONS OF RACISM AND BIGOTRY. I BELIEVE I'LL BRING THIS TO THE NOTICE OF THEIR STATE CHAPTER OF THE NAACP AND SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOME PROTESTING GOING ON UP THERE. GET A COUPLE OF NEWS CAMERAS TO SHOW UP AND THAT WILL BRING AL AND JESSE OUT AND WE'LL SEE IF WE CAN'T GET SOMETHING CHANGED UP THERE. NO JUSTICE! NO PEACE!

17523

[CFBfan]

wow!!! what the hell happened to this thread!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

So what I'm getting here from Supe is, Monmouth would solve one of the MEAC's problems in football, and Monmouth would have a complete solution with their women's bowling and football teams now having a home. Their women's bowling team would be playing in the strongest league in that sport in the country, and Momouth would be competing in an autobid league in football with a variety of teams that largely compete below the 63 scholarship level.

Probably not enough to overcome to bring them together, since institutionally they're so different, but it's interesting how useful Monmouth could be to the MEAC overall.

[Engineer86]

wow!!! what the hell happened to this thread!!

Citdog showed up xrotatehx

[ngineer]

By that argument, Georgetown and Fordham should have been denied entrance for failing on points #2, #3, and #4.

The unsaid bias here is that, for some the Monmouth "brand" is neither august nor esteemed enough to be alongside Colgate, Lehigh, etc. If RPI or Hopkins wanted to join, they'd be accepted with great fanfare despite the huge competitive hill they would have to climb, whereas schools like Monmouth, Bryant, or Robert Morris are looked down upon as not being "academic" (read=old) enough.

I would disagree on the blanket statement. Gtown's academic cache brings alot to the conference and their student body is highly academic competitive. Fordham, while having a lower 'profile' still fits with the emphasis on academics in the grand Jesuit tradition. Plus its tradition in football is unquestioned as well as being in a nice geographic footprint.

[ccd494]

Finish the thought... making the EXACT SAME DECISION with the EXACT SAME CONFERENCES they would today.

Unless... is there some brand-new FCS conference in the Northeast that's forming that I don't know about?

So, you want them to go independent, cobble together a schedule, and wait for.... nothing? And not have any auto bid?

The NEC doesn't want them. The PL apparently doesn't want them. The CAA doesn't want them. If, as you say, there is no new FCS northeast conference coming, I don't understand what you want them to do OTHER than ask into the Big South. It's not perfect by any means, but it kicks the can down the road, it's a holding pen. Waiting for what? Who knows. But if the Big South dissolves, oh well. It bought them a year or two or whatever. If it doesn't, great. They have 5 guaranteed games a year, and a chip and a chair for an autobid.

If they have to go independent three years from now, well, then you re-run through your options. Maybe JMU will have gone FBS, throwing the CAA into chaos. Maybe the PL will realize that it isn't 1895 anymore. Maybe Bryant and CCSU will be in America East, giving them and Monmouth greater leverage over the NEC admitting former members as affiliates.

Heck, maybe Harvard will shut down its athletics program and focus all their assets on building a rocket to Mars, and Monmouth will join the Ivy League. Is that stranger than Maryland bailing on the ACC or the Big Ten thinking its a good idea to add Rutgers?

I think if we've learned anything in the past 5 years relating to conference membership, bet on entropy.

[DFW HOYA]

I would disagree on the blanket statement. Gtown's academic cache brings alot to the conference and their student body is highly academic competitive. Fordham, while having a lower 'profile' still fits with the emphasis on academics in the grand Jesuit tradition. Plus its tradition in football is unquestioned as well as being in a nice geographic footprint.

The three points Georgetown would not pass relative to the original four points were:

2. "No history with the PL". Other than Fordham, Georgetown had no athletic rivalry with Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate or Bucknell, had only recentl begun a series with Holy Cross, and had not played any of these schools in other sports over the previous 20+ years.

3. "Significantly different student body". The PL core schools are small liberal arts institutions. Georgetown's schools of foreign service, business, and nursing do not fit a liberal arts definition. As most Georgetown students no longer hail from the Northeast, this is also a point of differentiation from those at core PL schools.

4. "Brings no qualitative benefits to the league". While the brand name brings an intangible, it was arguable at the time whether adding a MAAC-level school at a $450K annual budget have met this claim.

The same three points could be argued for Fordham--no rivalries other than Holy Cross, a larger, pre-professional university, and, in 1988, an underfunded jump-up from Division III.

Obviously, the presidents did not take into account these points, which was good for Georgetown. (Somehow, I still think Fr. Brooks was out of town for the vote.)

[LUHawker]

The three points Georgetown would not pass relative to the original four points were:

2. "No history with the PL". Other than Fordham, Georgetown had no athletic rivalry with Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate or Bucknell, had only recentl begun a series with Holy Cross, and had not played any of these schools in other sports over the previous 20+ years.

3. "Significantly different student body". The PL core schools are small liberal arts institutions. Georgetown's schools of foreign service, business, and nursing do not fit a liberal arts definition. As most Georgetown students no longer hail from the Northeast, this is also a point of differentiation from those at core PL schools.

4. "Brings no qualitative benefits to the league". While the brand name brings an intangible, it was arguable at the time whether adding a MAAC-level school at a $450K annual budget have met this claim.

The same three points could be argued for Fordham--no rivalries other than Holy Cross, a larger, pre-professional university, and, in 1988, an underfunded jump-up from Division III.

Obviously, the presidents did not take into account these points, which was good for Georgetown. (Somehow, I still think Fr. Brooks was out of town for the vote.)

I was only citing a few key reasons why MU should not be part of the PL. Since you think Gtown would also not qualify under those points, maybe G'town should not be in the PL either. It certainly hasn't added anything to the league's standing in football, has been an impediment to scholarships and clearly does not fund the program to PL levels. Do you think that Gtown should be in the PL? You rail against the league administration and complain that it panders only to Lehigh and Lafayette, but Gtown hasn't done anything to help its case. Maybe Georgetown and Monmouth should join together and form its own conference, since you dont seem to have any issues with them as a fit.

[Engineer86]

The three points Georgetown would not pass relative to the original four points were:

2. "No history with the PL". Other than Fordham, Georgetown had no athletic rivalry with Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate or Bucknell, had only recentl begun a series with Holy Cross, and had not played any of these schools in other sports over the previous 20+ years.

3. "Significantly different student body". The PL core schools are small liberal arts institutions. Georgetown's schools of foreign service, business, and nursing do not fit a liberal arts definition. As most Georgetown students no longer hail from the Northeast, this is also a point of differentiation from those at core PL schools.

4. "Brings no qualitative benefits to the league". While the brand name brings an intangible, it was arguable at the time whether adding a MAAC-level school at a $450K annual budget have met this claim.

The same three points could be argued for Fordham--no rivalries other than Holy Cross, a larger, pre-professional university, and, in 1988, an underfunded jump-up from Division III.

Obviously, the presidents did not take into account these points, which was good for Georgetown. (Somehow, I still think Fr. Brooks was out of town for the vote.)

Your point number 3 is not a league wide view. Lehigh has always been know as an Engineering school and within the last ten years Lehigh was ranked the #2 business school in the country. In fact, admission into Lehigh's business school is by far the toughest followed by the engineering school and then the Arts and Science college. My point is that the PL is not a liberal arts conference, it is a a conference focused on academics.

I would agree that history does play a roll in the league as well, but it is not a purely liberal arts league.

[Franks Tanks]

Your point number 3 is not a league wide view. Lehigh has always been know as an Engineering school and within the last ten years Lehigh was ranked the #2 business school in the country. In fact, admission into Lehigh's business school is by far the toughest followed by the engineering school and then the Arts and Science college. My point is that the PL is not a liberal arts conference, it is a a conference focused on academics.

I would agree that history does play a roll in the league as well, but it is not a purely liberal arts league.

By who?

[danefan]

By who?

The Brown and White

[heath]

College of Business and Economics
In 2012, BusinessWeek ranked Lehigh's College of Business and Economics 31st in the nation among undergraduate business programs.[17] Lehigh's finance program is particularly strong, ranked as 7th overall undergraduate finance program in the nation by BusinessWeek. The accounting program is also strong, ranked as the 21st best undergraduate program in the nation by BusinessWeek.[17] Accounting and finance majors at Lehigh are heavily recruited by Big Four auditors and many consulting firms. Additionally, BusinessWeek ranked Lehigh's part-time MBA 15th in the nation and third in the region in 2011.[18] Entrepreneur Magazine and The Princeton Review named Lehigh the 24th best undergraduate college for entrepreneurship in 2012.[19]xchinscratchx not too bad
[edit]

[citdog]

lfn had them at #1 i'll bet

[Engineer86]

College of Business and Economics
In 2012, BusinessWeek ranked Lehigh's College of Business and Economics 31st in the nation among undergraduate business programs.[17] Lehigh's finance program is particularly strong, ranked as 7th overall undergraduate finance program in the nation by BusinessWeek. The accounting program is also strong, ranked as the 21st best undergraduate program in the nation by BusinessWeek.[17] Accounting and finance majors at Lehigh are heavily recruited by Big Four auditors and many consulting firms. Additionally, BusinessWeek ranked Lehigh's part-time MBA 15th in the nation and third in the region in 2011.[18] Entrepreneur Magazine and The Princeton Review named Lehigh the 24th best undergraduate college for entrepreneurship in 2012.[19]xchinscratchx not too bad
[edit]

Thank you. Frank and Dane take the all the shots that you want. As I said the #2 ranking was a ways back, and I won't take the time to go and dig it up. I you want to argue that LU is not on par with Georgetown as a business school or does not have a strong engineering school, have it it. xbangx xcoffeex

[CFBfan]

Thank you. Frank and Dane take the all the shots that you want. As I said the #2 ranking was a ways back, and I won't take the time to go and dig it up. I you want to argue that LU is not on par with Georgetown as a business school or does not have a strong engineering school, have it it. xbangx xcoffeex

"within the last 10 years" and "a ways back" are 2 different things! Humor the crowd and "dig it up" for us!!

[superman7515]

"within the last 10 years" and "a ways back" are 2 different things! Humor the crowd and "dig it up" for us!!

#2 or #31, same difference, right?

[Engineer86]

#2 or #31, same difference, right?

7th or 31st, same difference right, just pick the stats that work for you. Are you saying Lehigh does not have a business school on par with Georgetown?

[superman7515]

7th or 31st, same difference right, just pick the stats that work for you. Are you saying Lehigh does not have a business school on par with Georgetown?

Nope. Just saying that...
Lehigh was ranked the #2 business school in the country.

Is certainly not the same as...
In 2012, BusinessWeek ranked Lehigh's College of Business and Economics 31st in the nation among undergraduate business programs.

[lehighfball]

Thank you. Frank and Dane take the all the shots that you want. As I said the #2 ranking was a ways back, and I won't take the time to go and dig it up. I you want to argue that LU is not on par with Georgetown as a business school or does not have a strong engineering school, have it it. xbangx xcoffeex

Engineer 86 I think the confusion comes from the ranking of the accounting program and not the overall Business School. In 2008 Business Week ranked the accounting program #1 in the nation. The two previous years the program was ranked 6th and 9th.

[downbythebeach]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why does this happen to so many threads?

[alvinkayak6]

Big South does make the most sense with Stony Brook departing for the CAA. You've got to keep your membership up to keep the conference going.


So, you want them to go independent, cobble together a schedule, and wait for.... nothing? And not have any auto bid?

The NEC doesn't want them. The PL apparently doesn't want them. The CAA doesn't want them. If, as you say, there is no new FCS northeast conference coming, I don't understand what you want them to do OTHER than ask into the Big South. It's not perfect by any means, but it kicks the can down the road, it's a holding pen. Waiting for what? Who knows. But if the Big South dissolves, oh well. It bought them a year or two or whatever. If it doesn't, great. They have 5 guaranteed games a year, and a chip and a chair for an autobid.

If they have to go independent three years from now, well, then you re-run through your options. Maybe JMU will have gone FBS, throwing the CAA into chaos. Maybe the PL will realize that it isn't 1895 anymore. Maybe Bryant and CCSU will be in America East, giving them and Monmouth greater leverage over the NEC admitting former members as affiliates.

Heck, maybe Harvard will shut down its athletics program and focus all their assets on building a rocket to Mars, and Monmouth will join the Ivy League. Is that stranger than Maryland bailing on the ACC or the Big Ten thinking its a good idea to add Rutgers?

I think if we've learned anything in the past 5 years relating to conference membership, bet on entropy.

[CFBfan]

7th or 31st, same difference right, just pick the stats that work for you. Are you saying Lehigh does not have a business school on par with Georgetown?

Saying your claim of #2 is absurdly OVERSTATED and WRONG !!!

[CFBfan]

7th or 31st, same difference right, just pick the stats that work for you. Are you saying Lehigh does not have a business school on par with Georgetown?

and NO it is NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Franks Tanks]

Thank you. Frank and Dane take the all the shots that you want. As I said the #2 ranking was a ways back, and I won't take the time to go and dig it up. I you want to argue that LU is not on par with Georgetown as a business school or does not have a strong engineering school, have it it. xbangx xcoffeex

Lehigh has a fine business program, especially in accounting & finance, but just never saw a ranking that high. I honestly wasn't trying to be a smartass, especially since ranking a business program is almost impossible IMO.

[RichH2]

Tanks,
Agree, I would expand a bit to include most rankings, except, of course ,our own AGS rankings.

[citdog]

Tanks,
Agree, I would expand a bit to include most rankings, except, of course ,our own AGS rankings.


NO ****...

[Go...gate]

So the consensus is that Monmouth FB will shoot for admission in the Big South?

There is yet another possiblity now - a precedent which Notre Dame recently established - that of the "Independent" with a "Scheduling Agreement". Can anyone see MU doing this for three to six five games per season with the Big South, NEC, Patriot or (gasp!) Ivy League?

[Seahawks Fan]

The Big South? I would remain independent until something better comes up in the Northeast.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Big South? I would remain independent until something better comes up in the Northeast.

In two years, though, what options are going to be out there? The same ones that are out there now: the PL, the NEC, the CAA, the PFL. You can gamble that, say, America East will make a new Northeastern conference, but people have been waiting this to happen for two decades and it still hasn't happened.

I repeat again, Monmouth isn't Stony Brook. SBU worked in the Big South because Liberty stuck around and SBU is an ambitious public school with lots of money to throw around. Monmouth is much, much smaller private school with tiny football facilities and not nearly the same amount of money sloshing around. Traveling to Boiling Springs, NC and Charlotte, SC doesn't really do much for the school, cost loads of money and still mean that Monmouth needs to put 5 OOC games on the schedule once Liberty leaves.

[DFW HOYA]

So the consensus is that Monmouth FB will shoot for admission in the Big South?

There is yet another possiblity now - a precedent which Notre Dame recently established - that of the "Independent" with a "Scheduling Agreement". Can anyone see MU doing this for three to six five games per season with the Big South, NEC, Patriot or (gasp!) Ivy League?

Yes, it's an option--a mix of three NEC, two PL, three Big South, and three wild card games.

[aceinthehole]

Monmouth is in a tough, but not dire, position right now. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes, but it is doable in the short-term.

The NEC is down to 7 schools - the same number of football teams in the PL. That's 14 schools that need to schedule 5 non-conference games in most years (6 in 12-game seasons like 2013 and 2014). I see no reason Monmouth won't be able to fill out their schedule as an Indy for the next 2 or so years from schools in those 2 conferences. And Marist, CAA teams, Ivy League, MEAC, and the Big South and (with a lot of hard work) Monmouth should get enough games schedule.

That being said, even if they have a decent schedule for the next 2 or 3 years, with no AQ to the playoffs or even conference awards to earn, this could make recruiting much, much tougher. This could set the program (which has been moderately successful) back years. IMO, that is the biggest risk they face right now.

[iBOsbu]

Agreed... recruiting would be the toughest challenge for MU going forward.

[busybee14]

I really dont see the big upside with this move.How much benefit has/ will MU really see with its BBall program ?its like they are willing to sacrafice football for a minor net gain in hoops.

[Dane96]

Yep...pretty much.

And they aren't getting into the CAA in the near future; it's a facilities and $$$ issue from my understanding.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Suddenly, the MEAC, who could use them, looks like a better option.

[aceinthehole]

Yep...pretty much.

And they aren't getting into the CAA in the near future; it's a facilities and $$$ issue from my understanding.

Yep. The planned "upgrades" at Monmouth are only to improve the press box and bleachers, and add some player ammenities (locker room, etc). No seating expansion is on the table, as the Town of West Long Branch will likley not approve a larger capacity stadium. They went through years of fighting the local just to build their fantastic indoor facility (capacity 4k). IMO - its one of the best mid-major venues in the region. The MAAC move tells you that basketball is their #1 priority, and while they will continue to support FCS football, I don't think they have the $$$ or will to make a major investment.

If you read Tony's Grahm's blog and comments, it appears that Monmouth goal for football is really the Patriot League. I think they will explore any and every cponference opportunity, but I don't think the CAA is a fit in the long-term either.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you read Tony's Grahm's blog and comments, it appears that Monmouth goal for football is really the Patriot League. I think they will explore any and every cponference opportunity, but I don't think the CAA is a fit in the long-term either.

So... if this is true, why wait two years? Why not just approach the PL now? Why waste time in the Big South if you're going to the PL anyway?

[iBOsbu]

So... if this is true, why wait two years? Why not just approach the PL now? Why waste time in the Big South if you're going to the PL anyway?

I dont think PL is interested in Monmouth. PL is very selective in adding members.

[superman7515]

Exactly. I mean, Monmouth is no Towson.

[Franks Tanks]

Monmouth adds nothing to the Patriot League. I would rather have the additional open week to schedule another Ivy or someone out of the usual PL comfort zone. Even if the game ultimately gets filled by a NEC team we have options. The PL should only take Monmouth if the auto-bid is in danger, otherwise it makes no sense to add football only members who bring little to the table for the league.

[Franks Tanks]

Exactly. I mean, Monmouth is no Towson.

Towson was a desperation move for the league. We needed a team to shore up the autobid and Towson needed a league with an autobid. It worked for a few years, but all parties knew it was temporary, and we used each other. The PL does not need to add Monmouth since the PL has 7 stable teams for now. If Georgetown or Fordham leave then maybe Monmouth gets a call. Otherwise they do not fit in the league and we have no need for them.

[aceinthehole]

So... if this is true, why wait two years? Why not just approach the PL now? Why waste time in the Big South if you're going to the PL anyway?

No one but you thinks MU is going to the PL. There is a huge leap you are making between what Monmouth WANTS and what it has been OFFERED.

I'm willing to bet that MU has already had "informal" discussions with the PL officials regarding membership. But the ball is in the PL President's court - Monmouth WANTS to join the PL, but no one has indicated the PL has the same feelings for Monmouth. Until an offer is extended by the PL, Monmouth has no choice but to explore all other options, including the Big South.

As many PL fans have posted, there are very strong reservations about adding Monmouth (even as a football affiliate). The fact is that Monmouth cannot force their way into a PL membership even if that is their goal.

[danefan]

I see no reason for the Patriot League to add Monmouth unless Georgetown and/or Fordham leaves.

Monmouth put themselves on a football island for the sake of their basketball league affiliation. I'm still shocked they didn't negotiate a spot before they signed up with the MAAC.

[aceinthehole]

I see no reason for the Patriot League to add Monmouth unless Georgetown and/or Fordham leaves.

Monmouth put themselves on a football island for the sake of their basketball league affiliation. I'm still shocked they didn't negotiate a spot before they signed up with the MAAC.

Yep. Basketball is their priority here. I too am shocked in how this went down, but it was impossible for MU to negotiate an affiliate deal with the NEC before getting out of the league for all sports. It was a divorce. While it wasn’t "messy" you can bet there are hurt feelings and professional disappointment when a contributing member decides to "move on" to something perceived "better" instead of building with the current membership.

The NEC was trying to protect the league by denying MU football membership. Basically, if the league said "yes" to Monmouth, there would be nothing stopping Bryant and CCSU from leaving for America East. The NEC lost 2 of the best basketball facilities in the league, and can't risk losing CCSU and Bryant next. The NEC basketball RPI is currently higher than the AE, PL, Ivy, and even the CAA. Losing 4 of the leagues schools would totally destabilize the NEC for other sports. The entire NEC has been improving across the board for the last 5 years and the loss of these 2 schools is a huge setback.

I know this is a football board and that’s what most of are interested in, but the Presidents and the AD have to think about all sports and the effect of conference membership on the school as a whole. This was a risk Monmouth was willing to make, but for the good of the league, it was probably the best decision to deny MU the associate membership. The NEC has to do what it can to protect the league and the remaining members.

As we noted, the NEC and the PL each are 7-team football leagues. It is not the end of the world for the NEC, and I think most would agree that (for now) the NEC hold the upper hand over Monmouth and acted as such.

[iBOsbu]

NEC rejecting Monmouth football would definitely discourage Bryant and CCSU from leaving for AE. 1) its the football issue 2) it just got easier for CCSU and Bryant to reach basketball tourney. They are going to monitor the Monmouth football situation closely.

As much as CCSU and probably braynt too want to move to AE (one year's RPI doesnt matter and AE is definitely "perceived" and "is" better than NEC, especially with QU and MU leaving), NEC gives their basketball and football a stable home.

And as much as I want them to join AE, stability is probably more important to them now than looking for a place to land their football.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If you read Tony's Grahm's blog and comments, it appears that Monmouth goal for football is really the Patriot League. I think they will explore any and every cponference opportunity, but I don't think the CAA is a fit in the long-term either.


So... if this is true, why wait two years? Why not just approach the PL now? Why waste time in the Big South if you're going to the PL anyway?


No one but you thinks MU is going to the PL......

xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Original_RMC]

Basketball is #1 with MU and I'm starting to think from talks I have heard that perhaps basketball is #1 for the NEC. I talked to some people about MU leaving and a comment was mentioned that sparked my interest.
I'm not sure if this was just a bad rumor or perhaps some insight into what the NEC conference is pondering in the future but apparently the NEC was or is thinking of doing a merge with the MAAC for basketball to compile a North and South division. But the NEC would leave RMU and SFU behind. I'm sure if this was true that the MAAC would have to explore leaving teams behind for the merge as well.
Perhaps MU decided to not wait on the NEC to make a complete conference move and went out on their own because it was perhaps just "talk" with no real action behind it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As we noted, the NEC and the PL each are 7-team football leagues. It is not the end of the world for the NEC, and I think most would agree that (for now) the NEC hold the upper hand over Monmouth and acted as such.

I love it how everyone here redefines 7-team league as it suits their worldview. When the NEC goes from 8 to 7, people's initial reaction is that the conference is going to hell in a handbasket because they have to schedule another OOC game. But when people talk about the 7 team PL, it's all about, "wow, the stability... they won't do anything unless Georgetown and/or Fordham leave!" Well, which is it? Either the NEC and PL are both fantastic at 7 teams, or they both crave more teams to get more stability. Which is it?

Especially rich is the idea the NEC is still stable at 7 members. The commissioner just denied Monmouth membership, ostensibly, to keep two members in the fold and to keep the league from blowing apart.

If anything, the NEC's issues are more than enough reason for PL presidents to stand at attention. Do they really want Georgetown or Fordham to leave and then scramble the way the NEC has? Which is a better doomsday scenario, losing (say) Fordham with Monmouth already as an associate member or losing Fordham with 7 members?

[aceinthehole]

Basketball is #1 with MU and I'm starting to think from talks I have heard that perhaps basketball is #1 for the NEC. I talked to some people about MU leaving and a comment was mentioned that sparked my interest.
I'm not sure if this was just a bad rumor or perhaps some insight into what the NEC conference is pondering in the future but apparently the NEC was or is thinking of doing a merge with the MAAC for basketball to compile a North and South division. But the NEC would leave RMU and SFU behind. I'm sure if this was true that the MAAC would have to explore leaving teams behind for the merge as well.
Perhaps MU decided to not wait on the NEC to make a complete conference move and went out on their own because it was perhaps just "talk" with no real action behind it.

The NEC commish has made no bones about it that the NEC has to improve the basketball RPI. That is a sport of focus. We need to do better than a PIG or #16 seed. We need to win games in the NIT. We need to do what our "peer" basketball league have been able to accomplish - be a solid mid-major team. RMU has come close (you got robbed in that ‘Nova game), but we haven’t broken through yet.

I think the progress the NEC made in football is huge and has already had its dividends. Look no further at Wagner's win at home in the playoffs. NEC football is not looking to win the National championship. We are looking to win non-conf games against peers on the gridiron (PL and Ivy) and advance in the playoffs. The private schools of the NEC aren't trying to compete head-to-head with the publics in the CAA, Big Sky or SoCon.

Look at what Lehigh and Bucknell are doing in hoops! That is where the NEC is way behind. I think most would agree RMU football is better than Bucknell football, but the Bison basketball program is better than RMU hoops. And RMU hoops is the best the NEC has to offer. The fact that the PL, Ivy, MAAC, and AE can have a very, very good program or two every couple of years is something the NEC hasn’t be able to mirror.

I can't see any reason why the NEC/MAAC would merge. We'd have too many teams competing for 1 AQ. The league will never be good enough to earn at-large bids on a regular basis. I don't know your source, but that sounds like garbage - I see no logic to support that move.

[Original_RMC]

RMU has come close (you got robbed in that ‘Nova game).

That game still hurts...LOL

[aceinthehole]

I love it how everyone here redefines 7-team league as it suits their worldview. When the NEC goes from 8 to 7, people's initial reaction is that the conference is going to hell in a handbasket because they have to schedule another OOC game. But when people talk about the 7 team PL, it's all about, "wow, the stability... they won't do anything unless Georgetown and/or Fordham leave!" Well, which is it? Either the NEC and PL are both fantastic at 7 teams, or they both crave more teams to get more stability. Which is it?

Especially rich is the idea the NEC is still stable at 7 members. The commissioner just denied Monmouth membership, ostensibly, to keep two members in the fold and to keep the league from blowing apart.

If anything, the NEC's issues are more than enough reason for PL presidents to stand at attention. Do they really want Georgetown or Fordham to leave and then scramble the way the NEC has? Which is a better doomsday scenario, losing (say) Fordham with Monmouth already as an associate member or losing Fordham with 7 members?

LFN - everything is relative, not absolute. I prefer a 9-team football league myself. Over the years the NEC has lost St. John's, UA, SBU, and Monmouth. We've added DUQ and Bryant. On the whole, the NEC is down. But from where we were in 2004, grants-in-aid/no AQ to where we are now 40 schollys/AQ, I would say the league is in good shape.

I have no opinion on whether the PL should invite Monmouth. That is a debate for PL fans and your schools. Personally, I could care less what the PL does. I'm suggesting that the NEC (right now) is in no worse shape than the PL. We both have the same number of members and RMU, Wagner, Bryant, and CCSU are still a solid core of schools that can put together a good season and a first-round playoff win.

Do I wish the NEc still had some of these teams that left - of course! But as of now, the league has the AQ and some solid teams. Honestly, as a NEC fan I am much more concerned about basketball. Despite the impressive RPI of the NEC, we lack a team that has made a national splash. LIU was hit with suspensions and injuries, and RMU is under the radar.

[fc97]

I love it how everyone here redefines 7-team league as it suits their worldview. When the NEC goes from 8 to 7, people's initial reaction is that the conference is going to hell in a handbasket because they have to schedule another OOC game. But when people talk about the 7 team PL, it's all about, "wow, the stability... they won't do anything unless Georgetown and/or Fordham leave!" Well, which is it? Either the NEC and PL are both fantastic at 7 teams, or they both crave more teams to get more stability. Which is it?

Especially rich is the idea the NEC is still stable at 7 members. The commissioner just denied Monmouth membership, ostensibly, to keep two members in the fold and to keep the league from blowing apart.

If anything, the NEC's issues are more than enough reason for PL presidents to stand at attention. Do they really want Georgetown or Fordham to leave and then scramble the way the NEC has? Which is a better doomsday scenario, losing (say) Fordham with Monmouth already as an associate member or losing Fordham with 7 members?

because the nec is maybe going to lose 1-2 more?

[superman7515]

Towson was a desperation move for the league. We needed a team to shore up the autobid and Towson needed a league with an autobid. It worked for a few years, but all parties knew it was temporary, and we used each other. The PL does not need to add Monmouth since the PL has 7 stable teams for now. If Georgetown or Fordham leave then maybe Monmouth gets a call. Otherwise they do not fit in the league and we have no need for them.

So the Patriot League is stable with a team in Georgetown that says it can't afford scholarships and has nothing but doom and gloom to say about the PL scholarship situation with the admin saying it's something they'll have to look at and watch and a Fordham team that was already willing to buck the league rules and say "Well WTF are you gonna do about it?" But the NEC is down to 7 teams and there are rumors that Bryant may want out, so clearly that conference is crumbling as we speak? Interesting.

[Franks Tanks]

So the Patriot League is stable with a team in Georgetown that says it can't afford scholarships and has nothing but doom and gloom to say about the PL scholarship situation with the admin saying it's something they'll have to look at and watch and a Fordham team that was already willing to buck the league rules and say "Well WTF are you gonna do about it?" But the NEC is down to 7 teams and there are rumors that Bryant may want out, so clearly that conference is crumbling as we speak? Interesting.
I never said the NEC is crumbling.

If Fordham wanted out of the PL they would be gone. The PL has treated Fordham poorly and they stuck around because they wanted to be here IMO. If Fordham pursued CAA membership I believe they would've been admitted, but I could be wrong. Georgetown is the more pressing issue, but I believe they do not want to move to the PFL. They may eventually bow out, but it will be several years until that happens. 3 years from now if it appears Georgetown will be gone we can then look at adding a FB only affiliate such as Monmouth or someone else. I feel we are not desperate presently, and it is not necessary to add a footbal only member that doesn't fit unless it is absolutely necessary.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I never said the NEC is crumbling.

If Fordham wanted out of the PL they would be gone. The PL has treated Fordham poorly and they stuck around because they wanted to be here IMO. If Fordham pursued CAA membership I believe they would've been admitted, but I could be wrong. Georgetown is the more pressing issue, but I believe they do not want to move to the PFL. They may eventually bow out, but it will be several years until that happens. 3 years from now if it appears Georgetown will be gone we can then look at adding a FB only affiliate such as Monmouth or someone else. I feel we are not desperate presently, and it is not necessary to add a footbal only member that doesn't fit unless it is absolutely necessary.

You'd make a great PL president... do nothing... do nothing... pass over one school... do nothing.... crisis!

[ngineer]

You'd make a great PL president... do nothing... do nothing... pass over one school... do nothing.... crisis!

LFN--clean out your pm malbox. Tried PMing you and got bouce-back that it's "full" and none being accepted.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN--clean out your pm malbox. Tried PMing you and got bouce-back that it's "full" and none being accepted.

Done!

[DFW HOYA]

I don't think Monmouth is on the PL docket, fairly or not.

[Go...gate]

I don't think Monmouth is on the PL docket, fairly or not.

I'm inclined to agree. What is funny is that Princeton and Rutgers would probably like it because it would make their FB OOC scheduling a little easier. PU and RU already play Monmouth (as they do Rider) frequently in a number of sports, including Men's Basketball and Baseball. Monmouth is a "bus game" in the most traditional sense and saves everybody money.

[busybee14]

Has Fordham considered a jump into the NEC ? With the way things are shaking out, I kinda like the fact the NEC now has some expansion room if the right programs are interested (Marist,New Haven,CW post).
.

[Franks Tanks]

Has Fordham considered a jump into the NEC ? With the way things are shaking out, I kinda like the fact the NEC now has some expansion room if the right programs are interested (Marist,New Haven,CW post).
.

I don't see why the NEC would be attractive to Fordham as they would have to shed 20 scholarships to join, and would no longer be a FBS bowl qualifier. In the PL they can offer up to 60 scholarships (don't ask me why the limit is 60 and not the normal 63).

[citdog]

I don't see why the NEC would be attractive to Fordham as they would have to shed 20 scholarships to join, and would no longer be a FBS bowl qualifier. In the PL they can offer up to 60 scholarships (don't ask me why the limit is 60 and not the normal 63).


the 60 thing is a built in excuse for Lehigh Football Nation.

[Go...gate]

Has Fordham considered a jump into the NEC ? With the way things are shaking out, I kinda like the fact the NEC now has some expansion room if the right programs are interested (Marist,New Haven,CW post).
.

I think CW Post would be a great fit in the NEC.

[Dave195]

1753217533
Yep. The planned "upgrades" at Monmouth are only to improve the press box and bleachers, and add some player ammenities (locker room, etc). No seating expansion is on the table, as the Town of West Long Branch will likley not approve a larger capacity stadium. They went through years of fighting the local just to build their fantastic indoor facility (capacity 4k). IMO - its one of the best mid-major venues in the region. The MAAC move tells you that basketball is their #1 priority, and while they will continue to support FCS football, I don't think they have the $$$ or will to make a major investment.

If you read Tony's Grahm's blog and comments, it appears that Monmouth goal for football is really the Patriot League. I think they will explore any and every cponference opportunity, but I don't think the CAA is a fit in the long-term either.

This ^ is correct. I'm an MU alum and big time fan of their basketball and football teams. Won't be larger in terms of capacity. Also, upgrades in terms of fan amenities such as restrooms, concessions, etc. Kessler needs an upgrade for MU to get into the CAA or Patriot League in a few years. The MAC is a gorgeous mid-major facility and basketball is their main focus.

[aceinthehole]

I think CW Post would be a great fit in the NEC.

CW Post is a campus of Long Island University (LIU-Post).

I'm not sure the Trustees of LIU want a second D-I program, because it would compete directly against LIU-Brooklyn for resources/athletes.


In its ninth decade of providing access to the American dream through excellence in higher education, LIU is a multicampus, diverse, doctoral institution of higher learning. One of the largest and most comprehensive private universities in the country, the University offers more than 575 undergraduate, graduate and doctoral degree programs and certificates, and educates over 24,000* students in degree-credit and continuing education programs in Brooklyn, Brookville (LIU Post), Brentwood, Riverhead, and Rockland and Westchester (LIU Hudson). Other academic units include LIU Pharmacy (the Arnold & Marie Schwartz College of Pharmacy and Health Sciences), which prepares students for successful careers in the fields of pharmacy and health care; LIU Global, which provides a wide range of study abroad options at overseas centers in China, Costa Rica and India, and through programs in Australia, Ecuador, Peru, Taiwan, Thailand and Turkey; and LIU Online, which harnesses the latest technology to offer online and blended programs.

---

Merrimack of the NE-10 is looking at going D-I. They already have a D-II football team and they would fit the mold of the NEC's last 3 additions (Bryant, Sacred Heart, and QU were all former NE-10 schools).


Merrimack College invites nomination and applications for Director of Athletics. The position is available immediately.

BACKGROUND

The only Catholic Augustinian College in New England, Merrimack College is an independent, co-educational institution with approximately 2,250 undergraduate and graduate students who hail from more than 23 states and 25 countries. Merrimack features rigorous academics, small classes and a close-knit, active residential community; all located roughly 20 minutes north of Boston, Massachusetts. The College offers bachelor’s degrees in business, education, engineering, liberal arts and science programs and Master’s degrees in education, management, and engineering. The College also competes in a full range of men’s and women’s Division II sports, offers Division I men’s ice hockey and is building a corresponding Division I women’s ice hockey program.

The College has recently welcomed a new administration, helmed by Christopher E. Hopey, Ph.D., a driven and entrepreneurial leader committed to Merrimack’s achievement and distinction. Under Dr. Hopey’s direction, Merrimack has sought to identify and develop those qualities that make it unique among its competitors, in accord with its ten-year strategic plan, The Agenda for Distinction. A deep seeded dedication to athletics is among the College’s defining qualities; 85% of Merrimack College’s student body are active in athletics, either intercollegiate, club, or intramural. This affinity for athletics, combined with revitalization of the College and the innovative spirit championed by Dr. Hopey, creates an atmosphere rich with potential – especially as the College undertakes to move its athletics programs from Division II to Division I.

Develop and Execute Strategic Plan for Conference Re-Alignment and Move to Division I

Merrimack College has undertaken preliminary inquiry regarding moving its athletics programs to Division I. The successful candidate will have the ability to analyze a program’s strengths and weaknesses as those relate to qualities sought by Division I conferences. He or she will be able to assess funding needed to support a quality Division I program, as related to personnel, facilities, and operations. He or she will be able to develop a budget, personnel, and facilities plan to arrive at that ultimate goal, within the constraints of limited resources for which there is competition. He or she will have the professional presentation and decorum necessary to, in conjunction with the President, and where appropriate, Trustees and other senior staff, serve as the College emissary to potential conferences. http://www.merrimack.edu/about/offices_services/human_resources/employment_opportunities/director-of-athletics.php

[Go Green]

I'm inclined to agree. What is funny is that Princeton and Rutgers would probably like it because it would make their FB OOC scheduling a little easier... Monmouth is a "bus game" in the most traditional sense and saves everybody money.

Rutgers may or may not schedule Monmouth in football, but any games would be at Rutgers.

My gut is that the same would be same for Princeton-Monmouth, but there's at least a possibility that Princeton would give Monmouth a return game.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

the 60 thing is a built in excuse for Lehigh Football Nation.

You forgot our "soft" Ivy League schedule. That hasn't changed.

[superman7515]

Yeah, I mean how many times was it repeated over and over that no 10 win team from an AQ conference has ever been left out of the playoffs?

[Engineer86]

The NEC commish has made no bones about it that the NEC has to improve the basketball RPI. That is a sport of focus. We need to do better than a PIG or #16 seed. We need to win games in the NIT. We need to do what our "peer" basketball league have been able to accomplish - be a solid mid-major team. RMU has come close (you got robbed in that ‘Nova game), but we haven’t broken through yet.

I think the progress the NEC made in football is huge and has already had its dividends. Look no further at Wagner's win at home in the playoffs. NEC football is not looking to win the National championship. We are looking to win non-conf games against peers on the gridiron (PL and Ivy) and advance in the playoffs. The private schools of the NEC aren't trying to compete head-to-head with the publics in the CAA, Big Sky or SoCon.

Look at what Lehigh and Bucknell are doing in hoops! That is where the NEC is way behind. I think most would agree RMU football is better than Bucknell football, but the Bison basketball program is better than RMU hoops. And RMU hoops is the best the NEC has to offer. The fact that the PL, Ivy, MAAC, and AE can have a very, very good program or two every couple of years is something the NEC hasn’t be able to mirror.

I can't see any reason why the NEC/MAAC would merge. We'd have too many teams competing for 1 AQ. The league will never be good enough to earn at-large bids on a regular basis. I don't know your source, but that sounds like garbage - I see no logic to support that move.

Lehigh's basketball losses this year ... Baylor, Pitt, BRYANT, VCU and some other team that shall not be mentioned. First three and a half were with our all-time leading scorer. Not a bad group of teams for Bryant to be part of.

[aceinthehole]

Lehigh's basketball losses this year ... Baylor, Pitt, BRYANT, VCU and some other team that shall not be mentioned. First three and a half were with our all-time leading scorer. Not a bad group of teams for Bryant to be part of.

Yes, but the NEC has NEVER won an NCAA game. As I said, the NEC basketball league isn't as bad as some people think - it is on par with other one bid mid-majors in the region. If you foloow mid-major basketball closely you know that the NEC has some very goood teamm. However ...

Lehigh beat Duke, Bucknell has a few NCAA wins, Iona has earned an at-large berth and NCAA win, Vermont beat Syracuse a few years ago.

On the whole, league play within the PL, NEC, AE, Ivy MAAC are very similar. The biggest difference in perception is that no NEC team has ever won a non-PIG NCAA game. That is a huge albatross around the league's neck. Until we get a win in the NCAAs the NEC will be perceived lower than its “peer” leagues – regardless of how close all these leagues actually are on a day-to-day, year-to-year basis.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

On the whole, league play within the PL, NEC, AE, Ivy MAAC are very similar. The biggest difference in perception is that no NEC team has ever won a non-PIG NCAA game. That is a huge albatross around the league's neck. Until we get a win in the NCAAs the NEC will be perceived lower than its “peer” leagues – regardless of how close all these leagues actually are on a day-to-day, year-to-year basis.

It will happen eventually. RMU was robbed.

[Original_RMC]

It will happen eventually. RMU was robbed.

xbawlingx

[aceinthehole]

It will happen eventually. RMU was robbed.

LFN - Yes, they were robbed and I would like to think this will happen for the NEC soon, but IMO that why it is so important for the NEC champ to have a good resume and a strong RPI. NCAA cinderella upsets can and do happen - but the upset odds increase above the 15 seed.

The NEC needs to stay out of the Opening Round and 16/15 seeds. It can be done, but it is very difficult. 14 and 13 seeds improve the chances at a win dramatically. And the only way for the NEC (or any other 1-bid league) to be in a good position to get those seeds is to have an excellent non-conf resume and roll through your league. Parity in an one-bid league is not a good thing come March
.

[Go Green]

Yes, but the NEC has NEVER won an NCAA game. As I said, the NEC basketball league isn't as bad as some people think - it is on par with other one bid mid-majors in the region. If you foloow mid-major basketball closely you know that the NEC has some very goood teamm. However ...

Lehigh beat Duke, Bucknell has a few NCAA wins, Iona has earned an at-large berth and NCAA win, Vermont beat Syracuse a few years ago.

The Patriots also have some good NIT wins and perhaps other postseason tourneys as well.

Has the NEC done better in the lesser tournaments?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Still a rumor, but if VMI is indeed knocking on the SoCon's door, that's real bad news for Big South football in general:

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?128191-latest-SoCon-rumors-have-ETSU-AND-VMI-coming-back

[Dave195]

I have a feeling that Monmouth will play as an independent this upcoming season.

[Seahawks Fan]

I have a feeling that Monmouth will play as an independent this upcoming season.

I think you are right. The Big South makes no sense IMO. Playing an independent schedule with NEC, PL and Ivies makes the most sense.

[Dave195]

Per Head Coach Kevin Callahan today at the Signing Day Event: The school hopes to break ground on stadium renovations this spring and to play an FBS level school in 2 to 3 years. Also, they will be an independent this upcoming season, however they are in talks with other conferences... I would expect an announcement on that in the next couple of months at the latest.

Only reason they didn't announce schedule today is that they want to keep it open in case they want a play a team from the new conference they may join. They will also continue to play some NEC schools... just not as an NEC member.

[Dave195]

http://blogs.app.com/hawks/2013/07/29/mu-athletics-update-for-week-of-july-28/

Don't know if this was the right thread but whatever, it passed! MU FB Press box... watch out Texas and Michigan... Monmouth is coming for you!! lol

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Speaking of Monmouth, is anyone coming out to Bozeman for the opener?

[Dave195]

Montana? I'm sure the school will send a contingent... I will not be among them lol. Can you even fly to Montana directly?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Montana? I'm sure the school will send a contingent... I will not be among them lol. Can you even fly to Montana directly?

Bozeman Yellowstone Airport is the busiest airport in the state. It's not cheap but you can get in and out of here pretty easy...