"Lehighed"

[georgecostanza]

Much like 'woffed,' I think it could make it's way into the vernacular of FCS football very soon...

"My team got f'ing Lehighed! Are you f'ing kidding me?" - ??? fan

[clenz]

Much like 'woffed,' I think it could make it's way into the vernacular of FCS football very soon...

"My team got f'ing Lehighed! Are you f'ing kidding me?" - ??? fan
Lehighed - verb

1. To play a very soft schedule, win, but not win the conference and bitch about getting left out of the playoffs for some team who actually beat good competition.

See also

STFU about it

[georgecostanza]

I guess the word won't be defined until tomorrow afternoon.

[sgt smash]

Kinda like Boise Stated

[X-Factor]

Lehighed - verb

1. To play a very soft schedule, win, but not win the conference and bitch about getting left out of the playoffs for some team who actually beat good competition.

See also

STFU about it

I approve this addition to urban dictionary

[Reign of Terrier]

I think being Lehighed would be like being woofed except with a team with a clearly inferior resume getting in in your place.

[LehighU11]

Lehighed - verb

1. To play a very soft schedule, win, but not win the conference and bitch about getting left out of the playoffs for some team who actually beat good competition.

See also

STFU about it

I don't think too many of us will be complaining too much if we are left out. We knew the team had to win the league to get in and it didn't happen. This happened to be a down year for our schedule and Lehigh didn't really put teams away as well as they should have. At any rate, a 10-1 season and a huge win over Lafayette in college football's most-played rivalry for the 5th straight year will be considered a successful season. Potentially missing the playoffs will be disappointing, but the year is by no means a failure.

Looks like you're the one complaining. Sorry about that losing season. Not sorry about beating your corn growing ***es in the UniDump 2 years back.

[LehighU11]

Each power conference should get 3 teams in tomorrow. I'm guessing the rest will get the autobid, plus Lehigh and Sam Houston St. (or maybe Stony Brook in either of these two teams' place) taking the remaining two spots. If you can't finish in the top 3 of your conference, then you really shouldn't be complaining about being robbed from the playoffs. That usually means you lost to 2 of the playoff teams from your conference and proved one more than one occasion that you aren't a title contender.

[CHIP72]

You know, all the whining about Lehigh possibly making the playoffs (and for that matter the whining about Lehigh's past playoff victories earning them the right to be in the playoffs this year) is getting REALLY old. Everybody who is whining one way or the other needs to, as would be said on some of the Philly sports message boards I post on, grow a pair and STFU. If Lehigh doesn't get in, they didn't win a weak Patriot League this year (and lost the game that decided the league title at home despite leading at one point in that game by 17 points). If Lehigh gets selected and some other team doesn't get selected, that other team had opportunities to earn their way in and lost enough games to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the selection committee to merit their exclusion. Either way, if the excluded team did more, they'd have no reason to be upset because they'd be in the playoffs. End of story.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You know, all the whining about Lehigh possibly making the playoffs (and for that matter the whining about Lehigh's past playoff victories earning them the right to be in the playoffs this year) is getting REALLY old. Everybody who is whining one way or the other needs to, as would be said on some of the Philly sports message boards I post on, grow a pair and STFU. If Lehigh doesn't get in, they didn't win a weak Patriot League this year (and lost the game that decided the league title at home despite leading at one point in that game by 17 points). If Lehigh gets selected and some other team doesn't get selected, that other team had opportunities to earn their way in and lost enough games to plant seeds of doubt in the minds of the selection committee to merit their exclusion. Either way, if the excluded team did more, they'd have no reason to be upset because they'd be in the playoffs. End of story.

Well said....

It's not going to stop though. This kind of dumbness has been going on for literally 14 years. It started on the old AOL 1-AA board, then to the escribe board and now here since '03. This built up hatred for one team and one league is fascinating.

[georgecostanza]

I was thinking in a different direction. Getting Lehighed would be the team supplanted by the Mountain Hawks.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Kinda like Boise Stated

Not really. BSU throttles the lesser teams they play, and wins their weak conference. They also generally schedule tough OOC competition.

[sgt smash]

Not really. BSU throttles the lesser teams they play, and wins their weak conference. They also generally schedule tough OOC competition.

See TCU.

[van]

Ask Towson and UNI, they know what getting Lehigh'd is!

[Doc QB]

I was thinking in a different direction. Getting Lehighed would be the team supplanted by the Mountain Hawks.
well, that is at least original

[Engineer86]

Ask Towson and UNI, they know what getting Lehigh'd is!

Getting beat by a team that people on this board have no respect for?

[danefan]

Getting beat by a team that people on this board have no respect for?

Last time I checked the teams that beat Towson and UNI didn't play a single snap this season.......

[clenz]

Ask Towson and UNI, they know what getting Lehigh'd is!
Congrats on two playoff wins.

They are surely bound to be the highlight of your program for years to come, clearly.


Pretty sad when first round playoff wins are the only thing your program can hang it's hat on...




I feel bad for sorry *** ****s like you.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Albany deserves a spot if Lehigh does. They played a tough OOC opponent in Youngstown and lost by a TD and beat the Patriot League Champ. They also played a CAA opponent so that's 2 power conference opponents in the OOC schedule.

Why does the Patriot League deserve an at large and the NEC only an AQ?

[danefan]

Albany deserves a spot if Lehigh does. They played a tough OOC opponent in Youngstown and lost by a TD and beat the Patriot League Champ. They also played a CAA opponent so that's 2 power conference opponents in the OOC schedule.

Why does the Patriot League deserve an at large and the NEC only an AQ?

Decidedly both Colgate and Maine..........

[DFW HOYA]

This needs to be better defined. Is the committee telling Lehigh a) you're in a one-bid conference, tough luck, or b) only schedules with body-bag games against I-A teams is safe passage for at-large bids?

[danefan]

This needs to be better defined. Is the committee telling Lehigh a) you're in a one-bid conference, tough luck, or b) only schedules with body-bag games against I-A teams is safe passage for at-large bids?

Neither. If Lehigh doesn't get in, the Committee is telling everyone the same thing it always has......when you play in a lower level league you have to schedule tough out of conference. If not, you have to win the AQ.

[LehighU1995]

What's the point of continuing this debate for all of these years? The committee will decide today. End of story. Doesn't matter what any of us think, whether pro or anti-Lehigh.

At the end of the day, regardless of your conference, your team ultimately controls its fate when the year begins. The only guarantee made is that if you win your league you are in the playoffs. If your team didn't win the league then you are subject to the whims of the committee. End of story.

[danefan]

What's the point of continuing this debate for all of these years? The committee will decide today. End of story. Doesn't matter what any of us think, whether pro or anti-Lehigh.

At the end of the day, regardless of your conference, your team ultimately controls its fate when the year begins. The only guarantee made is that if you win your league you are in the playoffs. If your team didn't win the league then you are subject to the whims of the committee. End of story.
+1

[Engineer86]

Last time I checked the teams that beat Towson and UNI didn't play a single snap this season.......

Didn't say they did if you read the post. I just defined getting "Lehighed"

[Engineer86]

Congrats on two playoff wins.

They are surely bound to be the highlight of your program for years to come, clearly.


Pretty sad when first round playoff wins are the only thing your program can hang it's hat on...




I feel bad for sorry *** ****s like you.

Yea I wish we had your storied history xcrazyxxcrazyxxcrazyx

[NoDak 4 Ever]

This needs to be better defined. Is the committee telling Lehigh a) you're in a one-bid conference, tough luck, or b) only schedules with body-bag games against I-A teams is safe passage for at-large bids?

I'm not crazy about the scholarship disparity between the conferences which causes some of this anyway. NDSU moved up because DII was being watered down with scholarship cuts. Playing a non scholarship team is the same as playing a DIII team. Playing a team that chooses less than full scholarships is like playing a DII team.

[Southern Bison]

Lehighed - verb

1. To play a very soft schedule, win, but not win the conference and bitch about getting left out of the playoffs for some team who actually beat good competition.

See also syn. Occupy Wall Street, Socialist parasite, Obama, everyone gets a trophy...

[clenz]

Yea I wish we had your storied history xcrazyxxcrazyxxcrazyx
Yeah

16 conference titles in 27 years, over a dozen NFL players, title game apperance, multiple semi final apperances, over 100 wins since 2001, top 5-7 in wins at the FCS level since 1982, etc...


Yep...such a ****ty program UNI has you dumb ****er.

[DFW HOYA]

Neither. If Lehigh doesn't get in, the Committee is telling everyone the same thing it always has......when you play in a lower level league you have to schedule tough out of conference. If not, you have to win the AQ.

Define "tough out of conference". Many of the CAA teams have limited non-conference scheduling opportunities, and only one or two NEC teams would even be viable. Are you suggesting Lehigh has to drop the Ivies and travel to Youngstown State or Furman to become relevant?

At least Lehigh could afford to attempt out of region scheduling. Bucknell and Georgetown, not so much.

[Red & Black]

I'm not crazy about the scholarship disparity between the conferences which causes some of this anyway. NDSU moved up because DII was being watered down with scholarship cuts. Playing a non scholarship team is the same as playing a DIII team. Playing a team that chooses less than full scholarships is like playing a DII team.

Good point, and I agree. Also, it is strange that a win over a non-schol FCS counts towards the playoffs, but a win over a good Division II does not.

Makes it really challenging to schedule out West. The past couple of years we haven't played any DII's, but a lot of teams have out west need to IOT fill the schedule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[danefan]

Define "tough out of conference". Many of the CAA teams have limited non-conference scheduling opportunities, and only one or two NEC teams would even be viable. Are you suggesting Lehigh has to drop the Ivies and travel to Youngstown State or Furman to become relevant?

At least Lehigh could afford to attempt out of region scheduling. Bucknell and Georgetown, not so much.

Not to become relevant but to warrant an at-large.....yes.

If you want to be considered for an at-large from the Patriot, NEC, MEAC or Big South you should schedule accordingly. That might mean playing one game road trips without a return game. Thems the breaks in the weaker conferences.

[lehighfball]

Yeah

16 conference titles in 27 years, over a dozen NFL players, title game apperance, multiple semi final apperances, over 100 wins since 2001, top 5-7 in wins at the FCS level since 1982, etc...



Yep...such a ****ty program UNI has you dumb ****er.


and your program got lehighed 2 years agoxlolx

[Sader87]

I think the era of the Patriot league being weak (or being perceived as being weak) is thankfully coming to a close. With the return of full scholarships starting next year, no other FCS league will improve as dramatically as the PL in the coming years.

[Engineer86]

Good point, and I agree. Also, it is strange that a win over a non-schol FCS counts towards the playoffs, but a win over a good Division II does not.

Makes it really challenging to schedule out West. The past couple of years we haven't played any DII's, but a lot of teams have out west need to IOT fill the schedule.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do not disagree with you, BUT this needs to be defined based on scholarship equivalents. The Ivy's do not officially give schollys, but if they want a kid, it is amazing how they get him through something other than athletic scholarship. Even Lehigh right now is around equivalents of 50, I think. The major difference of athletic scholarship is the pool of players that you can give money to.

They definitely should change the approach to waiting the quality of win based on the number of scholarship equivalents in some way.

[LehighU11]

I do not disagree with you, BUT this needs to be defined based on scholarship equivalents. The Ivy's do not officially give schollys, but if they want a kid, it is amazing how they get him through something other than athletic scholarship. Even Lehigh right now is around equivalents of 50, I think. The major difference of athletic scholarship is the pool of players that you can give money to.

They definitely should change the approach to waiting the quality of win based on the number of scholarship equivalents in some way.

Many here do not realize that Lehigh and many other PL schools offer almost as many, if not more, equivalencies as the scholarship conferences. This makes the argument that the now-former-non-scholarship Patriot League is no better than D2 programs completely incorrect.

[LehighU11]

See also syn. Occupy Wall Street, Socialist parasite, Obama, everyone gets a trophy...

Huh? If you're implying that Lehigh is taking a handout by receiving an at-large bid, then that applies to every other at-large team as well. By that logic, if a team doesn't win their conference, then they shouldn't be in the field. Fortunately, that's not the case and we get to see some strong 2nd place teams knock off conference champs.

If you're associating Lehigh with those other (mostly) negative connotations, then you are just another ignorant poster on here. In comparison to most other schools in the Northeast, you won't find many that have more alumni working on Wall Street and that are more conservative than Lehigh. Lehigh's endowment is larger than the entire MVFC combined.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross is the Socialist PL school you're looking for....see Michael Harrington, Fr Berrigan, Timothy Leary (ex-HC) etc.

Than again Clarence Thomas is a Holy Cross alumnus....

[RichH2]

Amazing after all these years to see the same bull posted time after time. I have been here since AGS stared and at I-aa before then. No longer has any real meaning as no matter what we do it will never change. Sobeit.
Like most of us, I will not complain if we dont get in. We had a great yr. Happy with that. Coaches can get out earlier to recruit.
Likewise, I will not be apologetic if we get in.

[Houndawg]

Huh? If you're implying that Lehigh is taking a handout by receiving an at-large bid, then that applies to every other at-large team as well. By that logic, if a team doesn't win their conference, then they shouldn't be in the field. Fortunately, that's not the case and we get to see some strong 2nd place teams knock off conference champs.

If you're associating Lehigh with those other (mostly) negative connotations, then you are just another ignorant poster on here. In comparison to most other schools in the Northeast, you won't find many that have more alumni working on Wall Street and that are more conservative than Lehigh. Lehigh's endowment is larger than the entire MVFC combined.


So what's your point, that the team should change its name to the Lehigh Scumsuckers?

[LehighDad]

Why would everyone be so upset or "jealous" if Lehigh gets a bid? These other teams have not played them! They are 10-1...and as the students shout out they are "Constant Lehigh". Don't hold it against them because their students are bright and they know how to party. Just remember when given the chance, Lehugh has a shot to beat anyone....any yes...Lehigh Beat Duke!

[Engineer86]

So what's your point, that the team should change its name to the Lehigh Scumsuckers?

We'll see today, but we might need to change to something the Lehigh Understanders, as in our AD understands the committee better than a team that schedules a money game and a DII game

[Southern Bison]

Huh? If you're implying that Lehigh is taking a handout by receiving an at-large bid, then that applies to every other at-large team as well. By that logic, if a team doesn't win their conference, then they shouldn't be in the field. Fortunately, that's not the case and we get to see some strong 2nd place teams knock off conference champs.

Lehigh's endowment is larger than the entire MVFC combined.

I'm implying with those connotations that Lehigh's fans been complaining that they'll be left out when it's been the team's actions that caused it. No strong wins, weak conference schedule, weak OOC games.

By the way, it's not the size of your endowment that matters, it's how you use it!!

[DFW HOYA]

If you want to be considered for an at-large from the Patriot, NEC, MEAC or Big South you should schedule accordingly. That might mean playing one game road trips without a return game. Thems the breaks in the weaker conferences.

Easier said than done. Do you think anyone in the MVC or Southland is calling Bucknell or Georgetown to fill a date in September?

[FargoBison]

Well NDSU would pay any PL team $150-200k for a guarantee game.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Easier said than done. Do you think anyone in the MVC or Southland is calling Bucknell or Georgetown to fill a date in September?

No less reason than scheduling Robert Morris or Lafayette.

[NDB]

Why would everyone be so upset or "jealous" if Lehigh gets a bid? These other teams have not played them!



Hardly 'anybody' has played them. That's the problem. How can you say you deserve to belong when you play such a weak schedule?

[Gil Dobie]

Easier said than done. Do you think anyone in the MVC or Southland is calling Bucknell or Georgetown to fill a date in September?

NDSU schedules NEC and Patriot schools.

[RichH2]

Southern bison
We are not complaing about our chances for this yr. Rather the ongoing perveption that we are never qualified to be in playoffs. Not going to apologize if we get in but wont be surprised if we dont.

[superman7515]

Well, no Lehigh.

[Sycamore62]

i think it just got a new definition

[dgreco]

^truth

[WrenFGun]

Color me stunned that Lehigh is out and SBU is in. Color me equally stunned that UNH got a first round bye and Nova did not. Holy ****. No Richmond either, but SBU? Wow.

[Southern Bison]

Southern bison
We are not complaing about our chances for this yr. Rather the ongoing perveption that we are never qualified to be in playoffs. Not going to apologize if we get in but wont be surprised if we dont.

Rich, you are one of the Lehigh guys on here that aren't and respect to you for that.

[TUTigers]

Maybe I'm biased but i feel like we deserved to be in there

[DFW HOYA]

Lessons:

1. The PL's at-large bid is now the NEC autobid. It's officially a one bid league
2. If you're a PL team with a name of Lehigh or Lafayette, the path to an at-large is a narrow one.
3. Unless Bucknell or Georgetown joins the NEC, forget it.

[RichH2]

Wow
Very odd choices. Tough for us but not surprised. Good luck to all who made it.

[Engineer86]

Color me stunned that Lehigh is out and SBU is in. Color me equally stunned that UNH got a first round bye and Nova did not. Holy ****. No Richmond either, but SBU? Wow.

Yea SB is the only one I would have any argument with. Strength of schedule is right with Lehigh, and then Liberty. Overall a good bracket, but I would have put Towson in place of SB.

With SB in there it is tough to make the argument that strength of schedule is a huge issue.

[aceinthehole]

Lessons:

1. The PL's at-large bid is now the NEC autobid. It's officially a one bid league
2. If you're a PL team with a name of Lehigh or Lafayette, the path to an at-large is a narrow one.
3. Unless Bucknell or Georgetown joins the NEC, forget it.

Fair or not, that's an accurate assessment.

Not too suprised about SBU over Lehigh. 'Brook's FBS win and fantastic backfield gave them the slight edge.

[WrenFGun]

Yea SB is the only one I would have any argument with. Strength of schedule is right with Lehigh, and then Liberty. Overall a good bracket, but I would have put Towson in place of SB.

With SB in there it is tough to make the argument that strength of schedule is a huge issue.

Yeah, I'm lost on that one. I thought with TWO more DI victories, if a smaller conference got a second it'd be Lehigh. The FBS win obviously made the difference.

I get UNH over UR; I do not understand UNH over Towson (clearly 4 losses doomed them) or UNH getting to the second over Nova. UNH should be playing SBU in this current selection round, but like I said, couldn't be happier.

Thought SDSU got a raw deal too...finished ahead of Illinois State in the conference but have to play in the first round against EIU?

[RichH2]

One that stuns me is Ill. St. 8-3 losing to 2 teams not in the mix. That one is polilitics. TU would destroy them.
Sad for LU but we knew that beating Gate was key and we didn't. We have to remember today next year.

[LUHawker]

Fair or not, that's an accurate assessment.

Not too suprised about SBU over Lehigh. 'Brook's FBS win and fantastic backfield gave them the slight edge.

Pathetic that the win over Army would make a difference. Army is just aweful and given that they are in the Patriot League for all other sports, makes it worse that they dont play PL teams in football.

[LehighU11]

Not surprised about Lehigh getting left out, but still a bit disappointed. Towson should have been in over Wofford, UNH, Ill St, and Sam Houston St.

[superman7515]

I'm not surprised they didn't get in, just surprised at all the Lehigh fans who are now saying they "aren't surprised" after hearing for the last couple of weeks how there is no way they don't make it and "no team with 10 wins from an AQ conference at a school who starts with the letter L in the northeast USA has ever been left out of the playoffs when the selection is on a Saturday in November with a slight breeze..." comments.

[Sader87]

I feel bad for Lehigh but almost 99 times out of a 100 you lose our game with us this year and we ended up 2-9.

I'm not saying Lehigh doesn't deserve a playoff berth but they were about as weak of a 10-1 team of any than I can remember.

[LehighDad]

The BIGGEST SNUB = LEHIGH. Wait until the Decision Committee members needs a real job from a Lehigh alumni!!!!!

[Saint3333]

The BIGGEST SNUB = LEHIGH. Wait until the Decision Committee members needs a real job from a Lehigh alumni!!!!!

What a joke. Play somebody/anybody OOC.

[AmsterBison]

Wish they would have gone to 24 this year. Still would have been some hard choices though.

[Sader87]

The BIGGEST SNUB = LEHIGH. Wait until the Decision Committee members needs a real job from a Lehigh alumnus (or almuna)!!!!!

fixed it for ya...we have a Classics department

[RichH2]

Agree TU snub shocking. They are too good to be staying home. An anti CAA move ? Maybe, all the press calling it the SEC of FCS may have annoyed other power conferences. Who knows. ILL.St a real headscratcher..

[NoDak 4 Ever]

What a joke. Play somebody/anybody OOC.

Even more, I don't even KNOW a Lehigh alum, suddenly everybody's boss is one.

[RichH2]

I'm not surprised they didn't get in, just surprised at all the Lehigh fans who are now saying they "aren't surprised" after hearing for the last couple of weeks how there is no way they don't make it and "no team with 10 wins from an AQ conference at a school who starts with the letter L in the northeast USA has ever been left out of the playoffs when the selection is on a Saturday in November with a slight breeze..." comments.
Supe
You are cherrypicking here. Yup some did boost. Most of us hoped but knew 2 bids very hard for PL.

[LehighU11]

I'm not surprised they didn't get in, just surprised at all the Lehigh fans who are now saying they "aren't surprised" after hearing for the last couple of weeks how there is no way they don't make it and "no team with 10 wins from an AQ conference at a school who starts with the letter L in the northeast USA has ever been left out of the playoffs when the selection is on a Saturday in November with a slight breeze..." comments.

I'm not surprised because you have to look at the whole scope of the field. It was apparent that the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, and SoCon would all get exactly 3 in. Add in the autobids and that leaves 2 at-large to non-power conferences. There was a lot of respect for SHSU, even though they lost every challenging game this year, so they seemed to be in. I figured the last spot would come down to SBU and Lehigh. Colgate's loss to SBU and loss to USD pretty much doomed Lehigh when you look at a 9-2 with an FBS win (albeit, a lousy one) against a 10-1. Stupid Liberty.

[WrenFGun]

They didn't take a single at large with 4 losses. It's just clear that they valued the wins over the losses all things considered. Which is why I'm stunned Lehigh is out; they had to view that team like a Pioneer team to not get in, but it's nice feeling vindicated after arguing about it for so long.

Definitely think UNH got the most fortunate situation (no first round game and in the playoffs).

[UNIFanSince1983]

Illinois State is a very good team. They are the 2nd best team in the MVFC. They deserve to be in the playoffs. They lost a couple questionable games, but they also won some big games. Towson has 4 losses. The only teams with 4 losses in the playoffs are auto bids. 7-4 is not good enough to get you in this year.

[walliver]

The BIGGEST SNUB = LEHIGH. Wait until the Decision Committee members needs a real job from a Lehigh alumnus (or almuna)!!!!!

fixed it for ya...we have a Classics department

What's an almuna?

I don't believe the Romans ever did the he/she stuff and that the masculine form could be inclusive of women.

[LehighGuy]

I'm not surprised because you have to look at the whole scope of the field. It was apparent that the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, and SoCon would all get exactly 3 in. Add in the autobids and that leaves 2 at-large to non-power conferences. There was a lot of respect for SHSU, even though they lost every challenging game this year, so they seemed to be in. I figured the last spot would come down to SBU and Lehigh. Colgate's loss to SBU and loss to USD pretty much doomed Lehigh when you look at a 9-2 with an FBS win (albeit, a lousy one) against a 10-1. Stupid Liberty.

I'm still not very convinced the committee is all too concerned with SoS. The probably just looked at SBU and Lehigh's common opponents. Colgate is the only one worth a lick; SBU beat them, Lehigh did not. Case closed.

Let's be serious, Army would get beaten by almost every team in the playoff field. They're terrible.

[taper]

I had Towson in my bracket over NH, otherwise got the at large the same. Illinois State was robbed of a spot last year, they are definitely deserving of one this year. Sure, they lost to 2 Valley teams, but they also have an FBS win and beat EIU who's also in. Unfortuantely they drew the the only team on their side that seems to have a defense. I predict an App win, mostly because of homefield.

[aceinthehole]

I'm still not very convinced the committee is all too concerned with SoS. The probably just looked at SBU and Lehigh's common opponents. Colgate is the only one worth a lick; SBU beat them, Lehigh did not. Case closed.
Let's be serious, Army would get beaten by almost every team in the playoff field. They're terrible.

Yes, I think this fact and the FBS win put Stony Brook ahead of Lehigh. SBU had a win against the playoff field, Lehigh didn't.

Question - did all the at-large selections this year have at least 1 win against the playoff field?

[Redbird Ray]

MVC is 5 full Sagarin pts better than any other FCS conf. Mid-tier MVFC teams like SIU and UNI would have won 2/3 of the leagues in this crap subdivision. Don't even think about falling for Jay Walkers horse**** and include us in the "shouldn't have gotten in" discussion. Bull****. Especially after we were Woffed worse than anyone else last year.

[LehighGuy]

Yes, I think this fact and the FBS win put Stony Brook ahead of Lehigh. SBU had a win against the playoff field, Lehigh didn't.

Question - did all the at-large selections this year have at least 1 win against the playoff field?

I doubt it had anything to do with the FBS win. Army is horrible. They wouldn't have had a winning season if they played in the Patriot League. If the committee considers that to be a quality win, they need to be fired.

[LehighDad]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.

[Sader87]

[QUOTE=Sader87;1895858]

What's an almuna?

I don't believe the Romans ever did the he/she stuff and that the masculine form could be inclusive of women.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alumna

[gotts]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.

See, the funny thing is that this is a place for football discussion and not grades...

[FargoBison]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.

I'm getting tired of this crap.

[WrenFGun]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.

Jesus. Grow up.

[Sader87]

This is precisely why the Ivies avoid these play-offs....

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.


The 'joke' is Lehigh's schedule.

Play some decent OOC games. Lehigh did not deserve to be in the playoffs....period.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I'm getting tired of this crap.

No wait. Let's see. Maybe they can understand it this way. Academically, Lehigh's schedule equates to a 10th grade English test. They want to submit that as a college entrance exam instead of the SAT.

[taper]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.
Fun fact: With over 18,000 acres of extension services, NDSU is the largest research university in the world. The Carnegie Commission and National Science Foundation rank us very positively. Craig Dahl has a Superbowl ring with New England and a Mechanical Engineering degree from NDSU. Our APR isn't quite as good as the PL, but still very respectable.

[RichH2]

Geez,
Bellyaching about snub, if its that, may be understandable but it is not really warranted this time. Moreover this is a football board. Complain about those issues not academic perceptions.
We had our chance to win into this and came up short. Not anyone's problem but ours.
Given the prevailing view by many of the inherent weakness of PL it is silly to argue with them.
We now have the opportunity over the next few years to show them that smart kids can play football too.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Geez,
Bellyaching about snub, if its that, may be understandable but it is not really warranted this time. Moreover this is a football board. Complain about those issues not academic perceptions.
We had our chance to win into this and came up short. Not anyone's problem but ours.
Given the prevailing view by many of the inherent weakness of PL it is silly to argue with them.
We now have the opportunity over the next few years to show them that smart kids can play football too.

Yup. Just ask Duke.

[URMite]

i think it just got a new definition

Lehigh got "San Diegoed".

[Sader87]

The fact remains, many of the Patriot League schools were playing football (and in some cases very high-level football) well before some of these schools (whose fans are disparaging the PL) even had a football team or school.

Has the league been down overall the last decade or so? Perhaps, but as it's been stated, the PL returns to full scholarship status over the next few years and I have no doubt it will return to national prominence (at the FCS level) in due time.

[hawkineer]

Yup. Just ask Duke.

S-T-A-N-F-O-R-D

[Twentysix]

The fact remains, many of the Patriot League schools were playing football (and in some cases very high-level football) well before some of these schools (whose fans are disparaging the PL) even had a football team or school.

Has the league been down overall the last decade or so? Perhaps, but as it's been stated, the PL returns to full scholarship status over the next few years and I have no doubt it will return to national prominence (at the FCS level) in due time.

The relevance of this sentence is non existant.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

S-T-A-N-F-O-R-D

And they get all the smart kids who can play football. For every Stanford, I can show you 10 Dukes.

[DFW HOYA]

Has the league been down overall the last decade or so? Perhaps, but as it's been stated, the PL returns to full scholarship status over the next few years and I have no doubt it will return to national prominence (at the FCS level) in due time.

Except that scholarships doesn't materially change the talent pool, it merely offers grants to those otherwise eligible to play--it's not like Lehigh can now recruit the same kid that NDSU or App is recruiting because they can't, or more precisely, won't.

Getting a couple of players to move away from Harvard or Penn is going to help at the margin but isn't going to make the PL any more respected nationally, and there will be those who will continue to penalize a PL autobid candidate for playing non-scholarship teams like the Ivies and/or Georgetown in their review of strength of schedule. It's enough of a slap that it has Colgate traveling in the first round to the NEC champ.


And they get all the smart kids who can play football. For every Stanford, I can show you 10 Dukes.

Duke is bowl eligible. So is Vanderbilt. Anyone watch the Dores take it to Tennessee last night?

[Twentysix]

S-T-A-N-F-O-R-D

B-E-R-K-E-L-E-Y

[Sader87]

The relevance of this sentence is non existant.

Not really...there is much longer institutional history/support for say Holy Cross or Colgate football at a D1 level than there is for a North Dakota St. HC is already recruiting much better next year with scholarships than they have in a long time. The jump to national FCS prominence from where they are now is really not that big of one....HC was basically there 25 years ago.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Except that scholarships doesn't materially change the talent pool, it merely offers grants to those otherwise eligible to play--it's not like Lehigh can now recruit the same kid that NDSU or App is recruiting because they can't, or more precisely, won't.

Getting a couple of players to move away from Harvard or Penn is going to help at the margin but isn't going to make the PL any more respected nationally, and there will be those who will continue to penalize a PL autobid candidate for playing non-scholarship teams like the Ivies and/or Georgetown in their review of strength of schedule. It's enough of a slap that it has Colgate traveling in the first round to the NEC champ.



Duke is bowl eligible. So is Vanderbilt. Anyone watch the Dores take it to Tennessee last night?

It got Dooley fired. And I really hate that people consider being bowl eligible something to be proud of. All you have to do is win 6 games. In FCS that does not give you any shot at postseason. There are too many bowls and as of right now only 1 matters for anything. The other BCS bowls are something to be proud of. But going to the Pinstripe Bowl or Little Caesars bowl is not something you should really take pride in especially if you were 6-6 and got there.

[TheValleyRaider]

It's enough of a slap that it has Colgate traveling in the first round to the NEC champ.

I don't know that it's a slap so much as it is our complete lack of desire to bid for a home game. We have shown very little to suggest we would bid for a playoff game. The only ones we've had came in 2003, and then as a seed we just needed the minimum. Heck, we didn't even bother bidding that minimum for the semifinals and travelled to unseeded FAU.

I can really only speak for Colgate, but if we want a home game, we'll need a seed. Unless we're unbeaten, we're not getting a seed. Well, certainly not this year

[LehighU11]

I don't know that it's a slap so much as it is our complete lack of desire to bid for a home game. We have shown very little to suggest we would bid for a playoff game. The only ones we've had came in 2003, and then as a seed we just needed the minimum. Heck, we didn't even bother bidding that minimum for the semifinals and travelled to unseeded FAU.

I can really only speak for Colgate, but if we want a home game, we'll need a seed. Unless we're unbeaten, we're not getting a seed. Well, certainly not this year

Yeah, I think it's more that Colgate is realistic about their attendance. They couldn't even draw 2,000 to see them play Lafayette in early November. Don't think it would get much better for a game on Thanksgiving weekend way up in Hamilton.

[RichH2]

NoDak 4 ever.
I must be missing your point. NDSU is so good because they have dumb football players. Therefore PL will never be any good because we can only recruit smart kids. That is the gist of your post is it not.

[aceinthehole]

It's enough of a slap that it has Colgate traveling in the first round to the NEC champ.

Why do you think this?

NEC vs. Patriot
2010 (4-1)
2011 (0-5)
2012 (3-5)

NEC vs. Ivy
2010 (2-1)
2011 (3-1)
2012 (1-1)

Since the NEC was granted the AQ, the NEC has a faired quite well against both the Patriot and Ivy League:
NEC vs. Patriot (7-11)
NEC vs. Ivy (6-3)

I know it kills many PL fans to admit it, but the NEC is a "peer league" and the PL is not a "power" conference.

[Sader87]

Why do you think this?

NEC vs. Patriot
2010 (4-1)
2011 (0-5)
2012 (3-5)

NEC vs. Ivy
2010 (2-1)
2011 (3-1)
2012 (1-1)

Since the NEC was granted the AQ, the NEC has a faired quite well against both the Patriot and Ivy League:
NEC vs. Patriot (7-11)
NEC vs. Ivy (6-3)

I know it kills many PL fans to admit it, but the NEC is a "peer league" and the PL is not a "power" conference.

It soon will be....and yes, I post this as purple courses through my veins but think about it. The PL will be the best academic league to give full football scholarships in the country.

[Engineer86]

I'm not surprised they didn't get in, just surprised at all the Lehigh fans who are now saying they "aren't surprised" after hearing for the last couple of weeks how there is no way they don't make it and "no team with 10 wins from an AQ conference at a school who starts with the letter L in the northeast USA has ever been left out of the playoffs when the selection is on a Saturday in November with a slight breeze..." comments.

A few weeks ago, I was one expecting a 10 win Lehigh team to get in, but as things played out and so many teams stated strong it became more and more apparent it would be a very tight fit. It would be extremely hard to argue Lehigh deserves in ahead of Towson, who I think would have scared every fan base but one that knows they are the best team and will tell you. Also, Richmond would be a tough argument.

I also hung my hat on our AD knowing more than most and thinking that DI wins are heavily weighted, that was based on SHSU getting the #1 seed last year without having an enormously strong schedule.

All that said over the past week, there have only been a few posters that were comfortable that Lehigh would get in

[Engineer86]

The BIGGEST SNUB = LEHIGH. Wait until the Decision Committee members needs a real job from a Lehigh alumni!!!!!

This is over the top obnoxious. No need to go there.

[Gringer1]

I really thought Lehigh would get a playoff spot, albeit a low one. That's the point of a playoff system, to give teams a chance to prove where they should be. When programs like Boise go undefeated against weak opponents and complain about not being in the title game, I laugh. In the current BCS system, there are only 2 spots open and you have to give the nod to the teams that play more difficult schedules, even if they drop a game. With a playoff bracket, a team that goes undefeated or only loses 1 game should be given a chance. Are Eastern Illinois, Wagner, Coastal Carolina, or Bethune Cookman demonstratively better than Lehigh? Even though some of them are conference champions, I don't know that their body of work stacks up much better than Lehigh's. I don't necessarily think that Lehigh would go very deep in the playoffs. I don't even know if they would win a game. But that is the point of a playoff bracket. You put the teams out there and see what happens. Now, we won't ever know exactly how good Lehigh was.

[Twentysix]

A few weeks ago, I was one expecting a 10 win Lehigh team to get in, but as things played out and so many teams stated strong it became more and more apparent it would be a very tight fit. It would be extremely hard to argue Lehigh deserves in ahead of Towson, who I think would have scared every fan base but one that knows they are the best team and will tell you. Also, Richmond would be a tough argument.

I also hung my hat on our AD knowing more than most and thinking that DI wins are heavily weighted, that was based on SHSU getting the #1 seed last year without having an enormously strong schedule.

All that said over the past week, there have only been a few posters that were comfortable that Lehigh would get in

SHSU had wins over FBS teams last year, 2011 SHSU and 2012 Lehigh are not comparible.

[Engineer86]

I'm not surprised because you have to look at the whole scope of the field. It was apparent that the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, and SoCon would all get exactly 3 in. Add in the autobids and that leaves 2 at-large to non-power conferences. There was a lot of respect for SHSU, even though they lost every challenging game this year, so they seemed to be in. I figured the last spot would come down to SBU and Lehigh. Colgate's loss to SBU and loss to USD pretty much doomed Lehigh when you look at a 9-2 with an FBS win (albeit, a lousy one) against a 10-1. Stupid Liberty.

The Liberty win stole one spot the Colgate win did not. I do believe that Colgate is vastly improved late in the season. You are correct, Colgate's early season losses to SDU and SB were a big hurt to Lehigh. Yea, I know that and our schedule which Liberty also helped look weak.

In the end cant point to much more than a weak schedule and not winning the Colgate game. I guess our team could have come out of the locker room at halftime of the Colgate game.

[SingForever]

The Liberty win stole one spot the Colgate win did not. I do believe that Colgate is vastly improved late in the season. You are correct, Colgate's early season losses to SDU and SB were a big hurt to Lehigh. Yea, I know that and our schedule which Liberty also helped look weak.

In the end cant point to much more than a weak schedule and not winning the Colgate game. I guess our team could have come out of the locker room at halftime of the Colgate game.If they had the 24-0 cushion they would have made it.

[Engineer86]

Except that scholarships doesn't materially change the talent pool, it merely offers grants to those otherwise eligible to play--it's not like Lehigh can now recruit the same kid that NDSU or App is recruiting because they can't, or more precisely, won't.

Getting a couple of players to move away from Harvard or Penn is going to help at the margin but isn't going to make the PL any more respected nationally, and there will be those who will continue to penalize a PL autobid candidate for playing non-scholarship teams like the Ivies and/or Georgetown in their review of strength of schedule. It's enough of a slap that it has Colgate traveling in the first round to the NEC champ.



Duke is bowl eligible. So is Vanderbilt. Anyone watch the Dores take it to Tennessee last night?


Call it what you want, but the Ivy's give substantial scholarship equivelants. The home sites are based on bids and with Colgate's typical attendance and a Thanksgiving weekend game, I am not surprised they did not bid high.

[Gater]

It makes sense for Colgate to travel on a Thanksgiving weekend. With 2,900 students and relatively few living close to campus there probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred around for the holiday.
Ace is right that there is very little difference between the NEC and the Patriot but I would imagine that will change with the departure of Albany and the Patriot going full scholarship.
Lehigh not making it is probably not only who they beat but how they beat them. The schedule wasn't strong and there were a lot of close games. This isn't to say that Lehigh couldn't have done well in the playoffs but there was a lot working against them. I would imagine Lehigh will be a monster in a few years.

[Engineer86]

SHSU had wins over FBS teams last year, 2011 SHSU and 2012 Lehigh are not comparible.

In one case you are talking about the number one seed, in another case you are talking about just getting in, please don't tell me I have to explain the relative issues.xcrazyx

[aceinthehole]

Ace is right that there is very little difference between the NEC and the Patriot but I would imagine that will change with the departure of Albany and the Patriot going full scholarship.

That's possible, but I wouldn't count on it.

The departure of Albany certainly doesn't help the NEC, but let's remember they only won 1 of 3 NEC AQ bids to date. Sure, they were back-to-back NEC Champs, but the NEC had co-Champs for the last 3 seasons. In fact, the last outright NEC Champion was in 2009 when CCSU finished 9-2, 7-1 in the NEC, one year before the league recieved the AQ bid.

I'm sure the NEC will survive with Wagner, RMU, CCSU, Monmouth, etc. The NEC will likely remain "on par" with the "non-power" FCS leagues, such as the PL/Ivy/Big South/MEAC.

[RichH2]

Perhaps ace but not likely. Some question as to how fast teams will add schollies some will add 15 per yr allowed. Others a bit slower and Hoyas not at all. NEC will be competitive but not with top tier of PL.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NoDak 4 ever.
I must be missing your point. NDSU is so good because they have dumb football players. Therefore PL will never be any good because we can only recruit smart kids. That is the gist of your post is it not.

I am simply responding to the notion that Lehigh's ability to offer athletic scholarships will not translate into success. The specific statement to which I was responding was "We now have the opportunity over the next few years to show them that smart kids can play football too."

[RichH2]

I am simply responding to the notion that Lehigh's ability to offer athletic scholarships will not translate into success. The specific statement to which I was responding was "We now have the opportunity over the next few years to show them that smart kids can play football too."

I dont understand. So your point then is full rides will not help PL because like Duke we cant recruit dummies. Interesting viewpoint. Guess we'll see in 4 or 5 years.

[Engineer86]

I dont understand. So your point then is full rides will not help PL because like Duke we cant recruit dummies. Interesting viewpoint. Guess we'll see in 4 or 5 years.

This is nothing different from what most PL fans have been saying as well. The PL admission rules put the league at a disadvantage in recruiting, all because we want to be like the Ivies, I am am not judging the rules just saying that many PL people have said the same thing.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I dont understand. So your point then is full rides will not help PL because like Duke we cant recruit dummies. Interesting viewpoint. Guess we'll see in 4 or 5 years.

I think bringing academics into a football forum is stupid anyway. I couldn't care less about Lehigh's academics. I didn't apply there because I wasn't smart enough, I didn't apply there because I never heard of it when I was in high school. You might as well be talking about Lehigh's great baseball team. Nobody cares.

My thesis all along has been the Lehigh didn't have a strong enough schedule for an at large berth into the tournament and several Lehigh posters agree. There is a razor thin margin to get into the tournament from a lesser conference, win the AB or go home. All 10 win seasons are not created equal. Can we stop talking about academics now? Go to the lounge or better yet, the Crapsville bar.

[RichH2]

4 ever
I am one of those agreeing that LU a bubble team. Our sched not good enuf. But , I was questioing your Duke reference. If you read my earlier post I said that academic jabs not a part of a football board. You followed w your Duke comment implying clearly that PL could not compete at your level in football just like Duke. Simply ,I do not agree. Given how we have done w/o schollies I would be surprised if we dont do much better w full rides.

[Saint3333]

The joke is that an Appalachian State player wishes they had the grades to be accepted to a Patriot League school.

Yeah that's it. What an a-hole run along now.

[walliver]

[QUOTE=walliver;1895889]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alumna

But that's not the definition of almuna.

When you are trying to show you are smarter than others, you need to read your own posts first.

[danefan]

I'm not surprised because you have to look at the whole scope of the field. It was apparent that the MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, and SoCon would all get exactly 3 in. Add in the autobids and that leaves 2 at-large to non-power conferences. There was a lot of respect for SHSU, even though they lost every challenging game this year, so they seemed to be in. I figured the last spot would come down to SBU and Lehigh. Colgate's loss to SBU and loss to USD pretty much doomed Lehigh when you look at a 9-2 with an FBS win (albeit, a lousy one) against a 10-1. Stupid Liberty.

Exacty and what most of us non-Leehigh posters have been saying the whole time.

This was an extraordinary year. Lehigh had a great season, but just came up short when it mattered most....Albany fans feel your pain.

[danefan]

Perhaps ace but not likely. Some question as to how fast teams will add schollies some will add 15 per yr allowed. Others a bit slower and Hoyas not at all. NEC will be competitive but not with top tier of PL.

I agree. Once the Patriot is near full scholarship they will have the chance to be closer to the CAA than the NEC.

There is a big difference between 40 and 60 rides. Any given Saturday of course, but week in and week out the PL willbe very strong with scholarships.

[RichH2]

AGS indeed dane. Same applies to us. Even then hard for us to face a weekly diet of CAA but we'll beat once a while.

[Sader87]

Put me down as being very bullish as to how good the PL can be with scholarships. When Holy Cross had scholarships there were very, very few kids on the team who would not have been eligible under the AI today....as I'm sure was the case at Colgate as well in the 1970's and 1980's.

[danefan]

Put me down as being very bullish as to how good the PL can be with scholarships. When Holy Cross had scholarships there were very, very few kids on the team who would not have been eligible under the AI today....as I'm sure was the case at Colgate as well in the 1970's and 1980's.

The only variable is the AI.

I dot think that will be too big of an issue though.

[Wallace]

I approve this addition to urban dictionary

Yes, right under the word "Toreroed" for USD fans. Very similar but USD won their conference.

[ngineer]

When I saw SBU on the bracket I knew we were screwed and the rest of the show bore that out. A tough call for the committee, but to me, SBU's two touchdown loss to Liberty, while Lehigh beat Liberty in their den, to me would have been a signifcant marker. Colgate's loss by one point to SBU was early in the season and it has always been a 'given' that more credence is given to late season wins. I fully agree that Lehigh made it's own bed by not showing up in the second half of the Colgate game and has no one to blame but itself for allowing the decision to be made by others who have whatever biases exist. Nice to see we have been able to get New Hampshire back on our schedule for next year and James Madison in 2014. This is a great learning experience for the students to take control of what you can an not let your destiny be dictated by others.

[CHIP72]

It might have made a difference had Lehigh lost on the road to Colgate rather than on the south side of South Mountain. To me, that was one of the key factors that kept the Mountain Hawks out. You can't be losing key games at home when you don't have any really good wins (Liberty is a fairly good win, though it was only by 2 points).

[RichH2]

When I saw SBU on the bracket I knew we were screwed and the rest of the show bore that out. A tough call for the committee, but to me, SBU's two touchdown loss to Liberty, while Lehigh beat Liberty in their den, to me would have been a signifcant marker. Colgate's loss by one point to SBU was early in the season and it has always been a 'given' that more credence is given to late season wins. I fully agree that Lehigh made it's own bed by not showing up in the second half of the Colgate game and has no one to blame but itself for allowing the decision to be made by others who have whatever biases exist. Nice to see we have been able to get New Hampshire back on our schedule for next year and James Madison in 2014. This is a great learning experience for the students to take control of what you can an not let your destiny be dictated by others.

So true. Well said.

[Go...gate]

Lehigh got screwed. Period.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

How did Coastal Carolina get in over Lehigh? Is Coastal somehow the Big South autobid? Wouldn't that go to SBU since they have the same conference record and SBU has the head-to-head over Coastal?

[CHIP72]

How did Coastal Carolina get in over Lehigh? Is Coastal somehow the Big South autobid? Wouldn't that go to SBU since they have the same conference record and SBU has the head-to-head over Coastal?

From reading other threads, it appears the three-way tiebreaker (Liberty also won a share of the Big South with Stony Brook and Coastal Carolina) went CC's way for the auto-bid.

[ngineer]

It might have made a difference had Lehigh lost on the road to Colgate rather than on the south side of South Mountain. To me, that was one of the key factors that kept the Mountain Hawks out. You can't be losing key games at home when you don't have any really good wins (Liberty is a fairly good win, though it was only by 2 points).

That's also misleading as the replays showed that Liberty's last touchdown, wasn't. RB never got the ball in the endzone. Luckily we stopped them on the two point conversion, but the 'real' score was 28-20.

[DJnva]

How did Coastal Carolina get in over Lehigh? Is Coastal somehow the Big South autobid? Wouldn't that go to SBU since they have the same conference record and SBU has the head-to-head over Coastal?

It was a 3-way tie, as Liberty was also 5-1. The top 3 teams only lost to each other so they went through the tiebreak procedure--Coastal Carolina prevailed because they had the best road record within the league.

[Wallace]

How did Coastal Carolina get in over Lehigh? Is Coastal somehow the Big South autobid? Wouldn't that go to SBU since they have the same conference record and SBU has the head-to-head over Coastal?

The New Rule is Big South Road record... the coaches voted this way for BS Road record... Coastal Carolina got the auto-bid because all three teams are tied at the end of the regular season, even though SBU won at CC.

[Wallace]

Lehigh got screwed. Period.

Face, this year Lehigh JUST WON BABY but not by much against a soft schedule and not at all when it really mattered.

[DFW HOYA]

The only variable is the AI. I dot think that will be too big of an issue though.

It's a HUGE issue--the PL has declaring 80% or more of scholarship-level talent off limits by the sheer number on an SAT score or GPA--the same kids looking at SBU, Wagner, Villanova, Towson, etc., etc. can't (and won't) look inside the PL.

Again, talent on the margin doesn't change with scholarships if the pool is the same--some parents get a better deal financially, but a kid with a 2.75 and a 1020 SAT looking at SBU, UNH, and Liberty isn't going to be in Lehigh or Lafayette's watch list by default.

Where it IS going to be a factor is where you have six schools handing out grants and Georgetown with no grants to give. Georgetown offers an education as valuable as any I-AA school, even (in the right program) with H-Y-P, but if you want your son to play football at GU, you might have to pay for it.

So how many talented kids, the kind of kids that score 1300+ on the SAT, carry 3.5 in the classroom and can turn a program around, will want to turn down a free ride at Lehigh or Holy Cross to take out a loan to play at Georgetown? That's the storm cloud approaching the MSF, and ultimately at the Patriot League.

[Sader87]

I understand DFW's frustration but HC never (or very rarely) dipped below what the current AI is now when it recruited football players in the 1980's. HC can recruit nationally and there is a deep enough pool of very good student-athletes around the country who will choose to play football at HC (or other scholarship-giving schools in the PL) to return them to a level of a CAA, MVFC etc in due course.

[Go...gate]

It's a HUGE issue--the PL has declaring 80% or more of scholarship-level talent off limits by the sheer number on an SAT score or GPA--the same kids looking at SBU, Wagner, Villanova, Towson, etc., etc. can't (and won't) look inside the PL.

Again, talent on the margin doesn't change with scholarships if the pool is the same--some parents get a better deal financially, but a kid with a 2.75 and a 1020 SAT looking at SBU, UNH, and Liberty isn't going to be in Lehigh or Lafayette's watch list by default.

Where it IS going to be a factor is where you have six schools handing out grants and Georgetown with no grants to give. Georgetown offers an education as valuable as any I-AA school, even (in the right program) with H-Y-P, but if you want your son to play football at GU, you might have to pay for it.

So how many talented kids, the kind of kids that score 1300+ on the SAT, carry 3.5 in the classroom and can turn a program around, will want to turn down a free ride at Lehigh or Holy Cross to take out a loan to play at Georgetown? That's the storm cloud approaching the MSF, and ultimately at the Patriot League.

You guys know what you need to do. Sounds like your Gridiron Club is getting the idea, too.

[Go...gate]

It's a HUGE issue--the PL has declaring 80% or more of scholarship-level talent off limits by the sheer number on an SAT score or GPA--the same kids looking at SBU, Wagner, Villanova, Towson, etc., etc. can't (and won't) look inside the PL.

Again, talent on the margin doesn't change with scholarships if the pool is the same--some parents get a better deal financially, but a kid with a 2.75 and a 1020 SAT looking at SBU, UNH, and Liberty isn't going to be in Lehigh or Lafayette's watch list by default.

Where it IS going to be a factor is where you have six schools handing out grants and Georgetown with no grants to give. Georgetown offers an education as valuable as any I-AA school, even (in the right program) with H-Y-P, but if you want your son to play football at GU, you might have to pay for it.

So how many talented kids, the kind of kids that score 1300+ on the SAT, carry 3.5 in the classroom and can turn a program around, will want to turn down a free ride at Lehigh or Holy Cross to take out a loan to play at Georgetown? That's the storm cloud approaching the MSF, and ultimately at the Patriot League.

To be candid, the vast majority of those kids don't belong in the PL. Moreover, save Villanova, none of the referenced schools are within a country mile of the PL academically - they are more akin to Loyola MD, which never should have been admitted to the conference.

[fc97]

if lehigh had taken the loss early in the season rather than late, they would probably be in.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

It's a HUGE issue--the PL has declaring 80% or more of scholarship-level talent off limits by the sheer number on an SAT score or GPA--the same kids looking at SBU, Wagner, Villanova, Towson, etc., etc. can't (and won't) look inside the PL.

Again, talent on the margin doesn't change with scholarships if the pool is the same--some parents get a better deal financially, but a kid with a 2.75 and a 1020 SAT looking at SBU, UNH, and Liberty isn't going to be in Lehigh or Lafayette's watch list by default.

Where it IS going to be a factor is where you have six schools handing out grants and Georgetown with no grants to give. Georgetown offers an education as valuable as any I-AA school, even (in the right program) with H-Y-P, but if you want your son to play football at GU, you might have to pay for it.

So how many talented kids, the kind of kids that score 1300+ on the SAT, carry 3.5 in the classroom and can turn a program around, will want to turn down a free ride at Lehigh or Holy Cross to take out a loan to play at Georgetown? That's the storm cloud approaching the MSF, and ultimately at the Patriot League.


To be candid, the vast majority of those kids don't belong in the PL. Moreover, save Villanova, none of the referenced schools are within a country mile of the PL academically - they are more akin to Loyola MD, which never should have been admitted to the conference.

I'm not sure why you all need to be in the same conference anyway. You may feel some affinity or simpatico or whatever it is, but Georgetown is in the Big East, not necessarily academically equal to some of the schools there, Stanford in the Pac12, Northwestern in the Big 10, etc.

If you're trying to be the Ivy League, go be the Ivy League but don't complain when the "dumb schools" succeed in sports more.

-Proud to be a dumb school graduate.

[RichH2]

We're not complaining about dumb schools, just the perception that we cant compete because of the smaller recruit base. Harder for us to build teams as deep as power conferences . Actually, only care about our ability to compete nationally not what anyone else's academic standards.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We're not complaining about dumb schools, just the perception that we cant compete because of the smaller recruit base. Harder for us to build teams as deep as power conferences . Actually, only care about our ability to compete nationally not what anyone else's academic standards.

Maybe that's the rub, it might be a small school thing. You are competing with schools that have enrollments of 10-30k when the PL is mostly 4-5k.

[aceinthehole]

It's a HUGE issue--the PL has declaring 80% or more of scholarship-level talent off limits by the sheer number on an SAT score or GPA--the same kids looking at SBU, Wagner, Villanova, Towson, etc., etc. can't (and won't) look inside the PL.

Again, talent on the margin doesn't change with scholarships if the pool is the same--some parents get a better deal financially, but a kid with a 2.75 and a 1020 SAT looking at SBU, UNH, and Liberty isn't going to be in Lehigh or Lafayette's watch list by default.

DaneFan - Personally, I just don't think scholarships are a cure-all for the PL. Sure it will help them a lot, but I don't think it push the league that much closer to the CAA.

I'm quite bullish on the NEC for the reason DFW stated. The NEC can actually recruit talent that is also considering programs like SBU, Delaware, and UNH. Not saying the NEC will win most of their recruiting battles against CAA programs - they won't win many - but we are only limited in the number of kids we can recruit (40 schollys), not limited by SAT scores and GPAs.

We've seen kids go to Albany (while in the NEC) that were recruited by Delaware and UNH. CCSU has gotten kids that were recruited by Towson and JMU. Even the smaller privates like Wagner, RMU, etc. are getting FBS transfers. Don't forget the NEC allows REDSHIRTING, which the PL does not.

The NEC certainly has many limitations - 40 schollys, lack of football pedigree, smaller facilities, less respected academics - but between the white lines the NEC has built up a competative league that has a playoff bid and can offer recruits the "full" FCS experience.

Think about the many schools in the NEC built football programs from the ground up in the last few decades (RMU, Monmouth, SHU), yet they have won games vs. the storied Ivy League. The NEC will never be a "power league," but I don't think the gap between the NEC and the PL/Ivy gets back to where it was in before 2005.

Just the fact that the NEC is actually scheduling HOME games vs. PL and Ivy shows how far we have come. As my thread on NEC non-conf results show, if the NEC can scheule more HOME games (and let's face it we aren't scheduling many CAA or other power leagues at home), the better chance we have to win these games.

Just to be clear, I don't predict the NEC will ever surpass the PL and Ivy, but I don't think the gap will widen. This Colgate @ Wagner playoff game is a huge turning point. If the Wagner wins, it would be MONUMENTAL for the NEC.

[RichH2]

Very true. Lehigh and Fordham are biggest and we are dwarfed by most State Schools. A fact of life. We have a very small margin of error. Still goal , at least for LU, is to be the best.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Very true. Lehigh and Fordham are biggest and we are dwarfed by most State Schools. A fact of life. We have a very small margin of error. Still goal , at least for LU, is to be the best.

You're wrong Rich. There is no margin of error for the PL.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

You're wrong Rich. There is no margin of error for the PL.

One thing I've learned is the committe for the FCS playoffs look at teams much differently than the one for college hoops do.

One has to wonder how the PL ever get an at large bid, especially at 8-3.

[PAllen]

Let's not forget, the Patriot League is violently anti-redshirt as well. That's been the big hurdle with early season games against "power" programs. Honestly, I think the schollies will help a lot in improving the pool. I'll give you an example from lacrosse/football (though years ago; late '80s). My brother went to high school with a kid who was recruited by Lehigh (for FB), Maryland (for FB), and UMBC (for Lax). His parents were comfortably middle class and didn't qualify for any need based aid. He wanted to play football in the worst way, but the offers were: Lehigh - sorry, you don't qualify for need based, you get nothing, Maryland - partial scholarship, UMBC - free ride. The kid was accepted to the engineering program at all three, but dropped his football dreams and went to the much lesser school for free. That is the kind of kid PL schools will soon be able to go after. Yes, we still won't be able to recruit the kids who struggle to write their name, and we won't be able to redshirt (I still question this), but the recruiting pool will expand, and don't underestimate the draw of an academic reputation at this level.

[DFW HOYA]

The margin of error is self-inflicted.

The issue is not Lehigh's enrollment numbers but the perception that the PL is not playoff-quality because Lehigh does not offer scholarships and the league artificially restricts admissions; therefore, it is not as "good" versus those that do not.

Imagine if NDSU was told by the conference office it couldn't recruit Marcus Williams or Billy Turner, but other teams in the conference could. In the PL, the league has the de facto ability to control admissions decisions of the member schools by restricting admissions to specific SAT and GPA levels, whether the school would admit the kid or not. If Lehigh wanted to admit ODU QB Taylor Heinicke, the PL could tell Lehigh he was inadmissible, regardless if he could do the work there.

PL scholarships will merely move the money around the same pool of players, a pool the NCAA committee now deems as worthy of one bid a year, which will ultimately hurt Lehigh and others if the PL is locked into a one-bid status.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The margin of error is self-inflicted.

The issue is not Lehigh's enrollment numbers but the perception that the PL is not playoff-quality because Lehigh does not offer scholarships and the league artificially restricts admissions; therefore, it is not as "good" versus those that do not.

I don't disagree with your assessment. But after consecutive wins over the Missouri Valley and CAA champs, it becomes a story of "who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes?" sort of situation.

If Lehigh can't overcome the perception of the PL being a one-bid league with two playoff wins in the last two years, an overall 20 year recent history of playoff wins, and a 10 win season, what hope does, say, Georgetown, Lafayette, Holy Cross, or Fordham have?

[RichH2]

Lets not jump the shark here. We have gotten at large bids. Odd this year but given our SOS we cant complain too much. Probable we will never get 3 or more that some do but as we improve OOC and win some of those reach games we will get at larges. Playoffs go to 24 next yr.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lets not jump the shark here. We have gotten at large bids. Odd this year but given our SOS we cant complain too much. Probable we will never get 3 or more that some do but as we improve OOC and win some of those reach games we will get at larges. Playoffs go to 24 next yr.

The loss to UNH meant more than any win Lehigh had last year. Same with Villanova in '04 in respect to that season.

[Sader87]

I'm not saying the clock will automatically set back to 1987 (oh that it would though....for a variety of reasons) just that the players who came to Holy Cross in the 1980's when HC was a national FCS power were probably very similar academically going into HC as the current kids are now. Those teams turned out many more physicians, lawyers, stockbrokers etc. than professional football players.

If recruiting is done correctly/smartly, there really isn't an excuse for Holy Cross not to be on a par with the CAA teams.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I don't disagree with your assessment. But after consecutive wins over the Missouri Valley and CAA champs, it becomes a story of "who are you going to believe, me or your lyin' eyes?" sort of situation.

If Lehigh can't overcome the perception of the PL being a one-bid league with two playoff wins in the last two years, an overall 20 year recent history of playoff wins, and a 10 win season, what hope does, say, Georgetown, Lafayette, Holy Cross, or Fordham have?

Playoff wins, yes, but what good is that? 2 Championship game appearances in 33 years for an entire conference? Half as many as the OVC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'm not saying the clock will automatically set back to 1987 (oh that it would though....for a variety of reasons) just that the players who came to Holy Cross in the 1980's when HC was a national FCS power were probably very similar academically going into HC as the current kids are now. Those teams turned out many more physicians, lawyers, stockbrokers etc. than professional football players.

If recruiting is done correctly/smartly, there really isn't an excuse for Holy Cross not to be on a par with the CAA teams.

The PL has proven it can produce CAA caliber teams over the last 15 years without scholarships.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Playoff wins, yes, but what good is that? 2 Championship game appearances in 33 years for an entire conference? Half as many as the OVC.

The League was formed in 1986 and didn't join the playoffs until 1997.

Holy Cross finished ranked #1 in 1987 despite the lack of a playoff bid.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

The League was formed in 1986 and didn't join the playoffs until 1997.

Holy Cross finished ranked #1 in 1987 despite the lack of a playoff bid.

Ok, I was giving Lehigh credit for 1979 regardless of conference.

Then 1. Colgate in 2003.

[DFW HOYA]

If Lehigh can't overcome the perception of the PL being a one-bid league with two playoff wins in the last two years, an overall 20 year recent history of playoff wins, and a 10 win season, what hope does, say, Georgetown, Lafayette, Holy Cross, or Fordham have?

Little (Lafayette/HC/Fordham) to none (Bucknell/Georgetown), which is, in part, why the idea of spending $3 million for football scholarships in Washington has attracted no momentum in the last nine months.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Ok, I was giving Lehigh credit for 1979 regardless of conference.

Then 1. Colgate in 2003.


That's true but look who the league teams have lost to.
1998 - Both Champ and finalist.
2001 - Runner-up
2003- Title game
2004 - National Champ
2005 - National Champ
2006 - Runner-Up
2009 - National Champ
2010 - Runner-up
2011- National Champ

That's pretty ridiculous. The league could have very easily advanced further but luck hasn't helped. All but two of those games were on the road as well. Lehigh lost to JMU 14-13 in '04 at home and the '03 Colgate-UD game was a neutral site

[Sader87]

The PL has proven it can produce CAA caliber teams over the last 15 years without scholarships.

I think the PL in general has done phenomenally well in the non-scholarship-era given its restraints. What it has lacked imo is overall team speed/athleticism (particularly on defense) which will be rectified (in theory) with scholarships.

The thing I keep harping on, to use an over-used phrase, is the "upside" that the PL has....doing as well as it's done (playoff victories, Colgate's 2003 run etc) without full scholarships, just imagine how well they could do with them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I think the PL in general has done phenomenally well in the non-scholarship-era given its restraints. What it has lacked imo is overall team speed/athleticism (particularly on defense) which will be rectified (in theory) with scholarships.

The thing I keep harping on, to use an over-used phrase, is the "upside" that the PL has....doing as well as it's done (playoff victories, Colgate's 2003 run etc) without full scholarships, just imagine how well they could do with them.

The lack of of home games will always be a major-uphill battle. The teams will get better but I'm not sure it will really matter. The best case scenerio is the PL ends up like the A10 in hoops.

[Sader87]

I could see home playoff games (hell, I actually went to one at HC in 1983) for the PL. Outside of Delaware and JMU, the CAA really doesn't draw that much better (if at all) than Holy Cross, particularly if HC is successful.

[RichH2]

Only been in playoffs since 97. Just to brag prior to PL was Natl Champ in 77. PL 86 barred playoffs til 97.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I could see home playoff games (hell, I actually went to one at HC in 1983) for the PL. Outside of Delaware and JMU, the CAA really doesn't draw that much better (if at all) than Holy Cross, particularly if HC is successful.

I'm still trying to figure out how Holy Cross didn't host New Hampshire in Dom Randolph's last year - another game that would have had strong regional interest, probably coverage from the Boston Globe and a ton of local newspapers, and a rare game where New Hampshire fans could actually go to a game without hopping on a plane.

Oh wait, I remember. We're a one-bid league.

[DFW HOYA]

I think the PL in general has done phenomenally well in the non-scholarship-era given its restraints. What it has lacked imo is overall team speed/athleticism (particularly on defense) which will be rectified (in theory) with scholarships.


From where, linemen that are now going to Yale instead? The Ivy isn't exactly the home for speed on the d-lines, either.

[Sader87]

From where, linemen that are now going to Yale instead? The Ivy isn't exactly the home for speed on the d-lines, either.

DFW...I get it, you're frustrated with GU's lack of support for football.

HC football is a different animal altogether than GU...we will recruit very well around the country with scholarships, we already are actually.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

DFW...I get it, you're frustrated with GU's lack of support for football.

HC football is a different animal altogether than GU...we will recruit very well around the country with scholarships, we already are actually.

I honestly don't see scholarships changing the landscape of the PL much. Lehigh and Colgate will remain the most consistent, Holy Cross, Lafayette and maybe Fordham the next level,with Bucknell and Georgetown bringing up the rear. I do wonder about Colgate after Biddle though. It's a beautiful campus but it's not a desirable place to play football imo. Ehh facilities and a high school type crowds aren't very appealing imo. Lafayette might still be screwed by their administration and a coach who wants to stick around too long. Maybe it will be Lehigh, Holy Cross and Fordham...lol. Lehigh has the best administration when it comes to athletics imo. Fordham cares more than people give them credit for too. The bball deal a mess but the football program is pretty solid when they have good coaching.

[Pard4Life]

I'm still trying to figure out how Holy Cross didn't host New Hampshire in Dom Randolph's last year - another game that would have had strong regional interest, probably coverage from the Boston Globe and a ton of local newspapers, and a rare game where New Hampshire fans could actually go to a game without hopping on a plane.

Oh wait, I remember. We're a one-bid league.

You probably did not put in a high enough bid to host the game. Plus, Lafayette blew the game against Lehigh or else they would have been at Villanova. We were a borderline three bid league even... 2009 was a high point, and 2002-2005 overall.

The rise of the NEC and this year's unique log jam along with Lehigh's weak SOS was a perfect storm.

[Sader87]

Holy Cross has the biggest "upside" (there's that word again) in the scholarship-era imo. Coaching staff (head coach anyway), football facilities, potential recruiting network via the parochial schools around the country (HC has already signed two kids from Loyola HS in Chicago for example), an alumni base that still cares about football, an historically strong market for HC sports (CMass/Worcester) etc etc

Will that automatically work out to success on the field? Who knows, but the potential is very much there.

[Pard4Life]

From where, linemen that are now going to Yale instead? The Ivy isn't exactly the home for speed on the d-lines, either.

We would siphon off CAA recruits. WM's QB was recruited by us as were a few Delaware OLs. Our All-American LB Maurice Bennett was recruited by the CAA but jilted and came to us. Their loss.

[CHIP72]

The loss to UNH meant more than any win Lehigh had last year.

Except the Towson playoff win. (I know what you're saying though - regular season only.)

Incidentally, I was fortunate enough to attend both of those games (the regular season game vs New Hampshire and the playoff game at Towson) and both were tremendous, highly competitive and entertaining games, regardless of who won. They are two of the best football games I've personally attended, NFL or any level of college football.

[Pard4Life]

Holy Cross has the biggest "upside" (there's that word again) in the scholarship-era imo. Coaching staff (head coach anyway), football facilities, potential recruiting network via the parochial schools around the country (HC has already signed two kids from Loyola HS in Chicago for example), an alumni base that still cares about football, an historically strong market for HC sports (CMass/Worcester) etc etc

Will that automatically work out to success on the field? Who knows, but the potential is very much there.

The only upside there is the network, which is all you need. HC is national in scope, the only PL team to be like HYP in that regard.

[Franks Tanks]

When I saw SBU on the bracket I knew we were screwed and the rest of the show bore that out. A tough call for the committee, but to me, SBU's two touchdown loss to Liberty, while Lehigh beat Liberty in their den, to me would have been a signifcant marker. Colgate's loss by one point to SBU was early in the season and it has always been a 'given' that more credence is given to late season wins. I fully agree that Lehigh made it's own bed by not showing up in the second half of the Colgate game and has no one to blame but itself for allowing the decision to be made by others who have whatever biases exist. Nice to see we have been able to get New Hampshire back on our schedule for next year and James Madison in 2014. This is a great learning experience for the students to take control of what you can an not let your destiny be dictated by others.

If nothing else the comittee seems to care about quality wins much more than comparing losses.

SBU had a big win over Army and beat Colgate. That is a win over a FBS team and a playoff team. Lehigh didn't beat any playoff teams this year. Lafayette got in with 3 losses in 2005 because we beat Richmond who won the A-10 that year. That win trumped the fact that we lost to Princeton. It sucks for Lehigh, but I think the lesson here is that we shoudl schedule one or two CAA teams per year if we expect to get an playoff at large.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Holy Cross has the biggest "upside" (there's that word again) in the scholarship-era imo. Coaching staff (head coach anyway), football facilities, potential recruiting network via the parochial schools around the country (HC has already signed two kids from Loyola HS in Chicago for example), an alumni base that still cares about football, an historically strong market for HC sports (CMass/Worcester) etc etc

Will that automatically work out to success on the field? Who knows, but the potential is very much there.

I actually think Bucknell has the biggest "upside". Their administration clearly values athletics, they have a nice stadium and are a located in a great recruiting area. Their biggest problem is alumni apathy.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

The only upside there is the network, which is all you need. HC is national in scope, the only PL team to be like HYP in that regard.

Fordham has more "scope" than HC in 2012.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If nothing else the comittee seems to care about quality wins much more than comparing losses.

SBU had a big win over Army and beat Colgate. That is a win over a FBS team and a playoff team. Lehigh didn't beat any playoff teams this year. Lafayette got in with 3 losses in 2005 because we beat Richmond who won the A-10 that year. That win trumped the fact that we lost to Princeton. It sucks for Lehigh, but I think the lesson here is that we shoudl schedule one or two CAA teams per year if we expect to get an playoff at large.

That those two FBS wins over Army and Eastern Michigan were clearly highly valued was the biggest joke of all in this playoff selection go-round. I'd say more than half the teams in the FCS Top 25, including Lehigh, could have delivered those wins. They should not count more than other criteria.

[CHIP72]

If nothing else the comittee seems to care about quality wins much more than comparing losses.

SBU had a big win over Army and beat Colgate. That is a win over a FBS team and a playoff team. Lehigh didn't beat any playoff teams this year. Lafayette got in with 3 losses in 2005 because we beat Richmond who won the A-10 that year. That win trumped the fact that we lost to Princeton. It sucks for Lehigh, but I think the lesson here is that we shoudl schedule one or two CAA teams per year if we expect to get an playoff at large.

I'd say the Committee was inconsistent in how they looked at things. If quality wins were the biggest key, then Towson (and to a lesser degree Richmond) should have been chosen instead of New Hampshire out of the CAA. If overall record is the biggest key, then the argument for putting New Hampshire in the playoffs also should have put Lehigh in the playoffs.

For whatever it's worth, I think quality wins, especially on the road, and bad losses, especially at home, should carry a lot of weight, just like they usually do when at-large teams are selected for the NCAA Basketball Tournament. A fairly good team can post a great record against a weak schedule, but it doesn't prove they are a genuinely good team. That's why Lehigh's relatively narrow wins really hurt them. When you play a weak schedule (which Lehigh did this season, some of which was outside their control), you better be dominant against most of those weaker foes. Lehigh wasn't impressive enough against a weaker schedule, and that combination of factors (weak schedule, relatively unimpressive wins) is what cost them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That those two FBS wins over Army and Eastern Michigan were clearly highly valued was the biggest joke of all in this playoff selection go-round. I'd say more than half the teams in the FCS Top 25, including Lehigh, could have delivered those wins. They should not count more than other criteria.

Army is horrific. We, Temple, destroyed them and we are nothing more than "below average" right now. In fact we scored 60+ for the first time since 1973. That year the Owls hung 63 on Holy Cross in Worcester.

[DFW HOYA]

The only upside there is the network, which is all you need. HC is national in scope, the only PL team to be like HYP in that regard.

Presented without further comment.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Army is horrific. We, Temple, destroyed them and we nothing more than "below average" right now. In fact we scored 60+ first time since 1973. That year the Owls hung 63 on Holy Cross in Worster.

+1. Also, one of Eastern Michigan's two FBS wins? Against Army.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Presented without further comment.

Georgetown clearly has the most national recognition in the league. However, it hasn't been enough to overcome obvious deficiencies with a leveler playing field. Now that scholarships have been added things won't be getting any better.

[Franks Tanks]

That those two FBS wins over Army and Eastern Michigan were clearly highly valued was the biggest joke of all in this playoff selection go-round. I'd say more than half the teams in the FCS Top 25, including Lehigh, could have delivered those wins. They should not count more than other criteria.

I don't disagree LFN, but I think the blue print for what we need to do is being laid out. With the NEC in the playoffs and SBU emerging as a power, the playoffs have become crowded despite the expanded field. If your team isn't in a "power" conferece you must have an excellent record and beat 1 or 2 power conference teams with good records to get an at large.

[CHIP72]

Army is horrific. We, Temple, destroyed them and we nothing more than "below average" right now. In fact we scored 60+ first time since 1973. That year the Owls hung 63 on Holy Cross in Worster.

Yeah, Temple had been beaten badly by Rutgers (25 points, home), Pittsburgh (30 points, road), Louisville (28 points, road), and Cincinnati (24 points, home) in their previous four games prior to Army. Despite being a very one-dimensional team that can't really pass the ball, Temple had no problems moving the ball against Army.

[Pard4Life]

Eh yeah, HC and FU both have a national presence.

Bucknell is serious about football now; I dont know why everyone thinks they will be a pushover.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yeah, Temple had been beaten badly by Rutgers (25 points, home), Pittsburgh (30 points, road), Louisville (28 points, road), and Cincinnati (24 points, home) in their previous four games prior to Army. Despite being a very one-dimensional team that can't really pass the ball, Temple had no problems moving the ball against Army.

It got ugly for a month following the first half against Rutgers. Temple will continue to struggle as a program until we get a legit QB. It was our downfall in the MAC and seems to be continuing in the BE. We can obviously recruit OL, DL, RB's etc. Granted, Montel Harris was a transfer from BC.

I can't imagine how many people will show up for the 11 AM kickoff against Syracuse on Black Friday. 15k maybe?

I'd love to see Temple schedule Lehigh if they're going to continue the FCS trend. We play Fordham next year.

[Pard4Life]

Eh yeah, HC and FU both have a national presence.

Bucknell is serious about football now; I dont know why everyone thinks they will be a pushover.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't disagree LFN, but I think the blue print for what we need to do is being laid out. With the NEC in the playoffs and SBU emerging as a power, the playoffs have become crowded despite the expanded field. If your team isn't in a "power" conferece you must have an excellent record and beat 1 or 2 power conference teams with good records to get an at large.

But that's just it. How many "power conference" OOC slots are realistically up for bids? Let's assume the CAA/SoCon/Missouri Valley have 8 conference games and 3 OOC slots. One is essentially an FBS game, so that's out. The other has to be a cupcake, played alternatively by a PFL team, or a struggling MEAC, SWAC, or Big South team. That leaves exactly one OOC game up for bids on every "power conference" team in FCS.

Of those schools, who's realistically going to pick Lehigh? They take one look at the 10-1 record, and say, thanks, but no thanks. If we lose that game, we lose any prayer of the playoffs. Sorry, we'll take VMI or Bucknell instead.

And then there's games that are scheduled that are dropped, with the "oh, by the way, we're going to drop the 4th game of our 4-game series since we're struggling and you're great, no hard feelings man".

People talk so big about "just schedule better teams" as if Delaware and Villanova are speed-dialing Lehigh's athletics office with baited breath waiting to schedule the Mountain Hawks. Nothing could be further from the truth. And still, despite the challenges, Lehigh has somehow gotten playoff-caliber teams on the schedule the last five years despite this changing landscape. They thought Liberty would be that team, but they were mistaken.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd love to see Temple schedule Lehigh if they're going to continue the FCS trend. We play Fordham next year.

+1000

[CHIP72]

It got ugly for a month following the first half against Rutgers. Temple will continue to struggle as a program until we get a legit QB. It was our downfall in the MAC and that trend seems to be continuing in the BE. We can obviously recruit OL, DL, RB's etc.

I can't imagine how many people will show up for the 11 AM kickoff against Syracuse. 15k maybe?

I'd love to see Temple schedule Lehigh if their going to continue the FCS trend. We play Fordham next year.

I'm with you 100% on pretty much everything above. Temple's inability to get a good passing QB is the reason they couldn't beat the really good MAC teams from 2009-2011 and the good Big East teams this year.

With Temple having a mediocre season (and the general Philadelphia sports fan thinking "eh, Temple is Temple this year", plus being sick of the lousy football being played by the other football team that calls Lincoln Financial Field home), I can't see a very big crowd for Syracuse. On the other hand, I think Syracuse has been Villanova's biggest draw in basketball the last few years (the Wildcats always play Syracuse at the Wells Fargo Center rather than the Pavilion) and there seem to be a lot of Syracuse students and alumni in the Philadelphia area, so maybe there will be a solid turnout (albeit for the wrong team from our point of view).

Finally, if Temple is going to play an FCS opponent and that opponent isn't Villanova (which is the most logical FCS opponent for the Owls), then I agree Lehigh should be going after that game to be Temple's opponent. Really, why is Temple playing Fordham? They should be playing Penn, Delaware, Lehigh, Lafayette, or Princeton (or maybe Delaware State) if they want to play an FCS opponent that isn't Villanova.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I agree with LFN.

A lot of the better teams from the "power conferences" do not schedule "marquee" FCS OOC games. Most play a money game and a couple cupcakes to middling FCS teams. They ultimately rely on "reputation" to carry them through league play.

[CHIP72]

I agree with LFN.

A lot of the better teams from the "power conferences" do not schedule "marquee" FCS OOC games. Most play a money game and a couple cupcakes to middling FCS teams. They ultimately rely on "reputation" to carry them through league play.

I think that was probably true with the CAA this year. IMO, that's a major reason why Richmond was not selected.

[aceinthehole]

But that's just it. How many "power conference" OOC slots are realistically up for bids? Let's assume the CAA/SoCon/Missouri Valley have 8 conference games and 3 OOC slots. One is essentially an FBS game, so that's out. The other has to be a cupcake, played alternatively by a PFL team, or a struggling MEAC, SWAC, or Big South team. That leaves exactly one OOC game up for bids on every "power conference" team in FCS.

People talk so big about "just schedule better teams" as if Delaware and Villanova are speed-dialing Lehigh's athletics office with baited breath waiting to schedule the Mountain Hawks. Nothing could be further from the truth. And still, despite the challenges, Lehigh has somehow gotten playoff-caliber teams on the schedule the last five years despite this changing landscape. They thought Liberty would be that team, but they were mistaken.

Well, I guess you have to go on the ROAD and play at those power conference schools - that is exactly what the NEC has (and continues) to do.

This year the NEC played 11 out of 27 (41%) non-conf games against ranked FCS opponents. Just 2 of those games were at home (vs. Lehigh and Maine).

Furthermore, just 9 out of of 27 (33%) NEC non-conf games were at home. If you want to play Richmond, W&M, Delaware, JMU, etc. you have to go there, period. The PL, like the NEC, just aren't getting many home games from "power conference" teams. I agree that it is not fair, and its an uphill battle to win on the road, but that is the path. As long as the PL almost exclusively schedules the Ivy League in home/home games, your schedule is not helping any future at-large bids

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Well, I guess you have to go on the ROAD and play at those power conference schools - that is exactly what the NEC has (and continues) to do.

This year the NEC played 11 out of 27 (41%) non-conf games against ranked FCS opponents. Just 2 of those games were at home (vs. Lehigh and Maine).

Furthermore, just 9 out of of 27 (33%) NEC non-conf games were at home. If you want to play Richmond, W&M, Delaware, JMU, etc. you have to go there, period. The PL, like the NEC, just aren't getting many home games from "power conference" teams. I agree that it is not fair, and its an uphill battle to win on the road, but that is the path. As long as the PL almost exclusively schedules the Ivy League in home/home games, your schedule is not helping any future at-large bids

Lehigh does fine scheduling historically. I'm not worried about their scheduling ideals in all honesty. This year was the exception much rather than the rule. As mentioned earlier, UNH travels to Goodman next year. In addition to that, the Hawks play 6 road games which is highly unusual for them.

[Sader87]

I think all the PL schools are "national in scope"... I'm just saying that HC might have a bit of an advantage over the other PL schools in that it has made inroads over the years, institutional ties etc with a lot of the Catholic/Jesuit schools throughout the country. GTown and Fordham have this to an extent as well but in many ways they are very "new" to this both having dropped football in the early 1950's and don't have as strong of a network/ties etc in football recruiting with scholarships.

[Saint3333]

We're not complaining about dumb schools, just the perception that we cant compete because of the smaller recruit base. Harder for us to build teams as deep as power conferences . Actually, only care about our ability to compete nationally not what anyone else's academic standards.

These "dumb schools" seem to have quite a few CEOs and CFOs as graduates. You guys probably complain about the crap Ivy schools give you and then make statements like this, that is unfortunate.

If you'd like to compete nationally schedule the games. For a bunch of self proclaimed smart guys you're having difficulty with a simple concept.

[DFW HOYA]

I think all the PL schools are "national in scope"... I'm just saying that HC might have a bit of an advantage over the other PL schools in that it has made inroads over the years, institutional ties etc with a lot of the Catholic/Jesuit schools throughout the country. GTown and Fordham have this to an extent as well but in many ways they are very "new" to this both having dropped football in the early 1950's and don't have as strong of a network/ties etc in football recruiting with scholarships.

Not much of an excuse there. Georgetown and Fordham both restarted its programs 48 seasons ago. The following schools didn't even have a progam in 1964: Towson, Albany, James Madison, Stony Brook, Charleston Southern, Robert Morris, Monmouth, Bryant, Old Dominion, Georgia State, or South Alabama.

[Pard4Life]

WM and Delaware are coming to Easton the next few seasons.

[Sader87]

Point being, and I'm not saying it's a huge advantage (over GU or FU) is that HC has had continous D1 football and all that that entails i.e. stronger/longer ties to a lot of the stronger Catholic/Jesuit high schools throughout the country, former players/coaches who coached or played D1 football at HC throughout the country, an alumni-base (though admittedly aging) who think of football as integral to their school (HC) unlike at GTown or FU, a community (Worcester/CMass) that has in the past supported HC much more than DC residents or NYC residents have at GU or FU etc etc

Again, I'm not saying that scholarships are going to instantly transform Holy Cross into "ND East" ("BC West???"...heaven forfend) but the structure is in place moreso than at GU or FU.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

WM and Delaware are coming to Easton the next few seasons.

Which further proves the league is not affraid to schedule teams. Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate and Holy Cross have all traditionally scheduled up. Fordham has only begun to do so. Bucknell here and there, Georgetown not so much.

Lafayette's schedule in 2009 was very similar to Lehigh's this season yet the 'Pards were basically in with a win over a not so good Lehigh team.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I posted this year earlier. This is the Hawks OOC schedule during the playoff era.

1997 - Harvard, Penn, Hofstra, Dartmouth, Delaware
1998 - St. Mary's, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia, Wofford
1999 - Monmouth, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, Delaware; Lehigh earned an At-Large
2000 - Wofford, Penn, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard
2001 - Princeton, CCSU, Cornell, Penn (canceled due to 9/11)
2002 - Buffalo (FBS), Princeton, Penn, Harvard, Yale
2003 - Princeton, Penn, UCONN (FBS), St. Mary's
2004 - Stony Brook, Villanova, Liberty, Albany, Yale; Lehigh earned an At-Large
2005 - Monmouth, Delaware, VMI, Harvard, Yale
2006 - Albany, Villanova, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
2007 - Villanova, Princeton VMI, Harvard, Yale
2008 - Drake, Villanova, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard
2009 - CCSU, Villanova, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
2010 - Drake, Villanova, Princeton, UNH, Harvard
2011 - Monmouth, UNH, Princeton, Liberty, Yale
2012 - Monmouth, CCSU, Princeton, Liberty, Columbia

[danefan]

WM and Delaware are coming to Easton the next few seasons.

Delaware is traveling for an OOC FCS game? That will be very rare. Don't be surprised if they cancel.

[DFW HOYA]

Point being, and I'm not saying it's a huge advantage (over GU or FU) is that HC has had continous D1 football and all that that entails i.e. stronger/longer ties to a lot of the stronger Catholic/Jesuit high schools throughout the country, former players/coaches who coached or played D1 football at HC throughout the country, an alumni-base (though admittedly aging) who think of football as integral to their school (HC) unlike at GTown or FU, a community (Worcester/CMass) that has in the past supported HC much more than DC residents or NYC residents have at GU or FU etc etc Again, I'm not saying that scholarships are going to instantly transform Holy Cross into "ND East" ("BC West???"...heaven forfend) but the structure is in place moreso than at GU or FU.

DC does not support Georgetown because only 3% of Georgetown students are from DC.

If the admissions pool of admitable prospects under the PL Academic Index is unchanged, with or without scholarships, the marginal gain is insufficient to elevate the PL as a multi-bid conference in the eyes of the NCAA. then again, does HC have some untapped scholarship pool from Catholic high schools that is not already recruitable by Ivy and PL teams?

[Franks Tanks]

Delaware is traveling for an OOC FCS game? That will be very rare. Don't be surprised if they cancel.

Rumor was 2-1, but I haven't seen it confirmed. Starting to think it won't happen. Also heard the William & Mary series was extended to include 4 rather than 2 games which is a positive.

[aceinthehole]

Which further proves the league is not affraid to schedule teams. Lehigh, Lafayette, Colgate and Holy Cross have all traditionally scheduled up. Fordham has only begun to do so. Bucknell here and there, Georgetown not so much.

Lafayette's schedule in 2009 was very similar to Lehigh's this season yet the 'Pards were basically in with a win over a not so good Lehigh team.

Huh? I'm talking about "recent" history, you know the last decade or so.

Lafayette has hosted just 1 CAA team since 1997 (Richmond in 2005).

Q: Before the playoff field expanded in 2010, how many AQ conference teams has Lafayette scheduled in the regular season since 1997?
A: 2 - home/away games against Richmond.

[aceinthehole]

I posted this year earlier. This is the Hawks OOC schedule during the playoff era.

1997 - Harvard, Penn, Hofstra, Dartmouth, Delaware
1998 - St. Mary's, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia, Wofford
1999 - Monmouth, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, Delaware; Lehigh earned an At-Large
2000 - Wofford, Penn, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard
2001 - Princeton, CCSU, Cornell, Penn (canceled due to 9/11)
2002 - Buffalo (FBS), Princeton, Penn, Harvard, Yale
2003 - Princeton, Penn, UCONN (FBS), St. Mary's
2004 - Stony Brook, Villanova, Liberty, Albany, Yale; Lehigh earned an At-Large
2005 - Monmouth, Delaware, VMI, Harvard, Yale
2006 - Albany, Villanova, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
2007 - Villanova, Princeton, VMI, Harvard, Yale
2008 - Drake, Villanova, Princeton, Cornell, Harvard
2009 - CCSU, Villanova, Princeton, Harvard, Yale
2010 - Drake, Villanova, Princeton, UNH, Harvard
2011 - Monmouth, UNH, Princeton, Liberty, Yale
2012 - Monmouth, CCSU, Princeton, Liberty, Columbia

That's pretty strong schedule, but it has a lot of Ivy flavor to it. I would guess Lehigh is the strongest schesulers in the PL.

I highlighted non-conf games vs. AQ conferences (or FBS teams), did I miss any?

[Franks Tanks]

That's pretty strong schedule, but it has a lot of Ivy flavor to it. I would guess Lehigh is the strongest schesulers in the PL.

I highlighted non-conf games vs. AQ conferences (or FBS teams), did I miss any?

Lehigh's schdule is pretty standard for the PL. We never play sub- D1 schools, and hardly ever play the pioneer league. Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross and Fordham often play at least one CAA school, but also work in Liberty and SBU for example.

Lafayette's schedule is more Ivy heavy, but we haven't played a team from a non-AQ (execpt Ivy) since Marist in about 2007.

[Sader87]

Colgate has Air Force and Ball St in the next couple of years I believe....once the PL has the equivalencies in place making them a "bowl eligible" credible opponent, I'm sure you'll see more FBS-PL match-ups over the coming years.

[aceinthehole]

Lehigh's schdule is pretty standard for the PL. We never play sub- D1 schools, and hardly ever play the pioneer league. Lafayette, Colgate, Holy Cross and Fordham often play at least one CAA school, but also work in Liberty and SBU for example.

Lafayette's schedule is more Ivy heavy, but we haven't played a team from a non-AQ (execpt Ivy) since Marist in about 2007.

Again, huh? Not true.

You played Liberty in 2008 and 2009 - before the Big South was granted the AQ.
You did play SBU in 2010 and 211 - after the Big South got the AQ.

For 5 seasons, from 1997 to 2011, exactly 20 of Lafayette's 25 non-conf games (80%) were against the Ivy League and Marist.

[Franks Tanks]

Again, huh? Not true.

You played Liberty in 2008 and 2009 - before the Big South was granted the AQ.
You did play SBU in 2010 and 211 - after the Big South got the AQ.

For 5 seasons, from 1997 to 2011, exactly 20 of Lafayette's 25 non-conf games (80%) were against the Ivy League and Marist.


Ok, who really cares if a team is from an AQ conference. There are some really terrible teams in AQ conferences, and I made a mistake using the term.

Playing Harvard or Princeton is not worse than playing St. Francis. The Ivy league would have an automatic bid in 8 seconds if they asked for one. We played Sacred Heart once, and Marist a few times. Those were our only real cupcake games in the last 5 or so years. We also played North Dakota State, Richmond, William & Mary and of course Liberty and SBU when they had a full compliment of 63 scholarships.

You're right Liberty wasn't an AQ in 08 or 09, but they were top 25.

[Sader87]

I, for one, don't want to stop playing the Ivies. I don't care if it gives us a better strength of schedule, playoff resume etc. I'd much rather play a Harvard, Dartmouth and/or Brown, who we have nearly a century of history of playing, than play a (fill-in-the-blank) school that has the requisite number of scholarships, comes from a "power FCS" conference etc.

[Franks Tanks]

I, for one, don't want to stop playing the Ivies. I don't care if it gives us a better strength of schedule, playoff resume etc. I'd much rather play a Harvard, Dartmouth and/or Brown, who we have nearly a century of history of playing, than play a (fill-in-the-blank) school that has the requisite number of scholarships, comes from a "power FCS" conference etc.

I agree Sader. Some posters trash talk the PL for playing the Ivies, but they don't realize we have been playing those schools in football longer than some of their school have been in existance. They may not give us the best chance at the playoffs, but they are solid teams that we have a ton of tradition with.

It is irrelevant if that are an "AQ" conference or not.

[Pard4Life]

Whoever started this thread, georgecostanza, may have access to inside information because Tavani stated that he found out that Lehigh wouldn't make the playoffs at 1am on Sunday, the same time this thread started.

[Pard4Life]

Colgate has Air Force and Ball St in the next couple of years I believe....once the PL has the equivalencies in place making them a "bowl eligible" credible opponent, I'm sure you'll see more FBS-PL match-ups over the coming years.

Air Force... that's 2013! I remember when then scheduled that game... in 2006 or so, and was thinking "oh wow, that's so far off... I can't imagine life at that time."

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I agree Sader. Some posters trash talk the PL for playing the Ivies, but they don't realize we have been playing those schools in football longer than some of their school have been in existance. They may not give us the best chance at the playoffs, but they are solid teams that we have a ton of tradition with.

It is irrelevant if that are an "AQ" conference or not.

I completely agree as well. There's no reason for Lehigh to stop playing 2 Ivy League games a year. The top teams in the Ivy League are viable OOC opponents. If outsiders want to ignore that fact, that's fine. It's their own ignorance for not educating themselves. Those that actually watch them play and follow who they recruit know the talent level at Harvard, Penn, Browon etc. The opportunity to visit the Yale Bowl, Franklin Field, Princeton Stadium etc each fall is a treat for the fans imo.

The ideal Lehigh schedule for me is, 1 "national" OOC game (UNH, Delaware, JMU, Villanova, Wofford, YSU etc) 1 "solid" game (Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Samford, Albany, etc) 2 Ivies, and one NEC team. Rotate in a FBS game every 2 or 3 years.

[MSUBobcat]

I completely agree as well. There's no reason for Lehigh to stop playing 2 Ivy League games a year. The top teams in the Ivy League are viable OOC opponents. If outsides want to ignore that fact, that's fine. It's their own ignorance for not educating themselves. Those that actually watch them play and follow who they recruit know the talent level at Harvard, Penn, Browon etc. The opportunity to visit the Yale Bowl, Franklin Field, Princeton Stadium etc each fall is a treat for the fans imo.

The ideal Lehigh schedule for me is, 1 "national" OOC game (UNH, Delaware, JMU, Villanova, Wofford, YSU etc) 1 "solid" game (Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Samford, Albany, etc) 2 Ivies, and one NEC team. Rotate in a FBS game every 2 or 3 years.

I don't think most are saying not to schedule Ivies (though Columbia may not be the best choice - last .500 season was 2006, last winning season 1996). What you consider your ideal schedule would definitely boost your SOS.

[CHIP72]

I agree Sader. Some posters trash talk the PL for playing the Ivies, but they don't realize we have been playing those schools in football longer than some of their school have been in existance. They may not give us the best chance at the playoffs, but they are solid teams that we have a ton of tradition with.

It is irrelevant if that are an "AQ" conference or not.

I also agree with this. Patriot League teams SHOULD be playing 1-2 Ivy League teams in the non-conference schedule every year, just due to the similar academic traditions and history. Some of the Ivy League teams, most notably Penn and Harvard, have also been very solid programs in recent years.

The issue for Patriot League teams isn't playing Ivy League teams, it's making sure the majority of the other non-conference opponents are quality opponents.

[Pard4Life]

I don't think most are saying not to schedule Ivies (though Columbia may not be the best choice - last .500 season was 2006, last winning season 1996). What you consider your ideal schedule would definitely boost your SOS.

Lafayette has been doing just that... for example, we played W&M, Robert Morris, and three Ivies. I think in 2015, we have Delaware, W&M, an NEC, and an Ivy.

[CHIP72]

Yeah, Lafayette was hurt this year schedule strength-wise by William & Mary having a poorer than expected season.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I don't think most are saying not to schedule Ivies (though Columbia may not be the best choice - last .500 season was 2006, last winning season 1996). What you consider your ideal schedule would definitely boost your SOS.

I said all year the Columbia game, at home, was the the only true schedule killer. Princeton is basically Lehigh's Ivy rival so that's a yearly deal. Given their up and down status as a program you need to be assured of getting Harvard, Penn, Yale or Brown imo. If Lehigh beats Penn, the IL champ, like Lafayette did, Lehigh is in the playoffs imo

Robert Morris
@ UNH
Princeton
Fordham
@ Penn
The Citadel
@ Holy Cross
@ Bucknell
Colgate
@ Georgetown
Lafayette

would be a sweet schedule...

[Engineer86]

But that's just it. How many "power conference" OOC slots are realistically up for bids? Let's assume the CAA/SoCon/Missouri Valley have 8 conference games and 3 OOC slots. One is essentially an FBS game, so that's out. The other has to be a cupcake, played alternatively by a PFL team, or a struggling MEAC, SWAC, or Big South team. That leaves exactly one OOC game up for bids on every "power conference" team in FCS.

Of those schools, who's realistically going to pick Lehigh? They take one look at the 10-1 record, and say, thanks, but no thanks. If we lose that game, we lose any prayer of the playoffs. Sorry, we'll take VMI or Bucknell instead.

And then there's games that are scheduled that are dropped, with the "oh, by the way, we're going to drop the 4th game of our 4-game series since we're struggling and you're great, no hard feelings man".

People talk so big about "just schedule better teams" as if Delaware and Villanova are speed-dialing Lehigh's athletics office with baited breath waiting to schedule the Mountain Hawks. Nothing could be further from the truth. And still, despite the challenges, Lehigh has somehow gotten playoff-caliber teams on the schedule the last five years despite this changing landscape. They thought Liberty would be that team, but they were mistaken.

Great post. I think most of us underestimate how tou it is for a team like Lehigh to get games against CAA teams, especially after winning in the playoffs. Delaware is giving us the same treatment Temple gave them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

But that's just it. How many "power conference" OOC slots are realistically up for bids? Let's assume the CAA/SoCon/Missouri Valley have 8 conference games and 3 OOC slots. One is essentially an FBS game, so that's out. The other has to be a cupcake, played alternatively by a PFL team, or a struggling MEAC, SWAC, or Big South team. That leaves exactly one OOC game up for bids on every "power conference" team in FCS.

Of those schools, who's realistically going to pick Lehigh? They take one look at the 10-1 record, and say, thanks, but no thanks. If we lose that game, we lose any prayer of the playoffs. Sorry, we'll take VMI or Bucknell instead.

And then there's games that are scheduled that are dropped, with the "oh, by the way, we're going to drop the 4th game of our 4-game series since we're struggling and you're great, no hard feelings man".

People talk so big about "just schedule better teams" as if Delaware and Villanova are speed-dialing Lehigh's athletics office with baited breath waiting to schedule the Mountain Hawks. Nothing could be further from the truth. And still, despite the challenges, Lehigh has somehow gotten playoff-caliber teams on the schedule the last five years despite this changing landscape. They thought Liberty would be that team, but they were mistaken.

I think that NDSU would love to host Lehigh. Last year, they were bought out by Georgia Southern and had to put in St. Francis. This year they were left without a game until almost the very end until PVAM. Robert Morris met NDSU 2 years ago in the playoffs and next year, they are scheduled to host Montana State.

Cupcakes are there because they are willing to come to Fargo for money.

[Engineer86]

Delaware is traveling for an OOC FCS game? That will be very rare. Don't be surprised if they cancel.

+1

[RichH2]

4 ever, happenstance very hard way to schedule. Suppose we'll need some luck with some power getting or dropping other squads. We do have UNH next yr and JMU the following. UNH will probably become a series the games have been great and fans from noth schools get along. Also, UNH loves to recruit the Valley . Not too many Div.I players in New Hampshire.

[Neighbor2]

So, NoDak 4 Ever, are you considering Lehigh to be a cupcake? If so, I hope Lehigh never considers a regular season game at your place. Besides, why would a program of your stature want to play an eastern team that failed to make the playoffs?

[Engineer86]

4 ever, happenstance very hard way to schedule. Suppose we'll need some luck with some power getting or dropping other squads. We do have UNH next yr and JMU the following. UNH will probably become a series the games have been great and fans from noth schools get along. Also, UNH loves to recruit the Valley . Not too many Div.I players in New Hampshire.

Where has everyone seen the JMU game? Lehigh is always slow to release future games it seems

[heath]

would love to see Andy Coen return to the school where he started coaching as GA. Way back when Charles Haley was at JMU. That stadium would shock him now,but do miss the days sitting on the hill below the tracks.xthumbsupx

[Fordhamanhattan]

Fordham has scheduled Villanova, Rhode Island, Temple, Yale and local rival Columbia OCC next year. I think that's a pretty sexy schedule.

[RichH2]

86
Lomangino. Next yr set w CCSU, Monmouth,Columbia,Princeton and UNH. Year after not done yet.
Columbia a minus, UNH a big plus , Princeton good. NEC teams both bad this yr. Lets hope they are better next yr.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So, NoDak 4 Ever, are you considering Lehigh to be a cupcake? If so, I hope Lehigh never considers a regular season game at your place. Besides, why would a program of your stature want to play an eastern team that failed to make the playoffs?

Not at all. I consider Lehigh a worthy playoff opponent in the vein of Montana State or Georgia Southern.

I'm simply saying that St. Francis, Lafayette, and Prairie View A&M are out there and willing to come. Nobody cares if Lehigh deigns to come to Fargo for a OOC game, there are plenty that will. NDSU has 2 things going for it, money and juice. When you have those, you can make a schedule.

[RichH2]

I am envious manhattan. Very nice. A couple of yrs we'll catch up.

[Neighbor2]

This whole "weak schedule" charge is a little overdone. Look at Kansas State having that "dog" Baylor on their schedule. I mean, what's the point, K-State?

As far as I'm concerned, Lehigh should continue playing 3 Ivies. Those are historic, colorful games between like-minded foes on beautiful campus settings. The top Ivy tier are far from FCS chumps! After those three, plus the other Patriot League members AND an early season lessor team (just to work out some kinks) as every BCS school includes, how many other dates are available to fill to the satisfaction of everyone on this board?

[DFW HOYA]

Fordham has scheduled Villanova, Rhode Island, Temple, Yale and local rival Columbia OCC next year. I think that's a pretty sexy schedule.

Good for Fordham. Yale ended its series with Georgetown after a 6-0 run--not sure when they will ever get such a favorable arrangement.

I'm guessing the Hoyas won't be filling its schedule with any of the other schools above unless GU became a barnstorming team.

[Neighbor2]

So, NoDak, you would also love to see your school fly east to play at Lehigh? You know, just to keep things equal.:)

[Pard4Life]

So, NoDak, you would also love to see your school fly east to play at Lehigh? You know, just to keep things equal.:)

The playoff game does not have to be equalized. On the other hand, they owe us for a regular season OOC game in Easton!

[Neighbor2]

Pard, don't hold your breath. My point was, right now, North Dakota State is on top of the world. Traveling to Easton, PA is really not necessary to NDSU eyes. We (Lehigh and Lafayette) go to them. After all, it's a great opportunity for us!

[RichH2]

As he said, NDSU driving the bus for now. Why travel when you dont have to. Likewise with H/H. Cycle will turn and NDSU falling back to a middle level team, still good but king anymore. I would look to CAA and SoCon for OOC.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So, NoDak, you would also love to see your school fly east to play at Lehigh? You know, just to keep things equal.:)

I'd love to see my school fly east to anyone. I live in Ohio, remember? Probably not in the cards any time soon.

[Neighbor2]

That's it, RichH2.

When we have an open date, reach out to CAA, SoCon. The other long distance, high maintenance folks (like NDSU) just aren't worth it. There are equally strong, big-time foes right here, just a bus ride away. NDSU offers nothing significant over Delaware, Villanova, New Hampshire, etc. Add in Patriot members Army, Navy and others like Temple, Rutgers, Syracuse.

[Neighbor2]

NoDak 4 Ever, truth be told, NDSU fans posting here have shown a little too much bravado for my taste. Every dog has its day, just not at the same time! Many years ago (now) Patriot League, Ivy League teams reached levels your school can only dream about. To me, NDSU fans, posting right now have been disrespectful.

For 2012, I hope you guys go down early, just to keep things equal.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NoDak 4 Ever, truth be told, NDSU fans posting here have shown a little too much bravado for my taste. Every dog has its day, just not at the same time! Many years ago (now) Patriot League, Ivy League teams reached levels your school can only dream about. To me, NDSU fans, posting right now have been disrespectful.

For 2012, I hope you guys go down early, just to keep things equal.

In 118 years of fooball, NDSU has compiled a 647–369–34 record and 9 national championships. Over the last 10 years we have a record of 85-32. Don't expect us to fall to the middle any time soon. We do not measure our success by what you do, worry about yourselves.

[CHIP72]

I think that NDSU would love to host Lehigh. Last year, they were bought out by Georgia Southern and had to put in St. Francis. This year they were left without a game until almost the very end until PVAM. Robert Morris met NDSU 2 years ago in the playoffs and next year, they are scheduled to host Montana State.

Honestly, I don't have a lot of interest in seeing Lehigh travel halfway across the country to the middle of nowhere (or more accurately, what people in the Northeast consider to be the middle of nowhere) to play a regular season game. (Semi-related side note - in all seriousness a lot of people in the Northeast consider Chicago flyover country, so Fargo, ND is definitely considered flyover country.) This lack of desire to see a Lehigh/ND State game has nothing to do with ND State being a strong opponent or Lehigh's schedule strength or the game possibly being a one and done or a 2 for 1 or anything like that. It has to do with, at least to me and probably most other people in the Northeast, Division I-AA football (and heck, Division I-A football, through the various conferences ruining it at that level) being a regional sport. In college football, especially at the lower levels of college football, you play schools in your region. Sports fans in the Northeast generally don't care about what teams are doing in other parts of the country, and more specifically most Lehigh and Northeast-based fans have no idea about North Dakota State; a game against ND State wouldn't register to people. Perhaps more importantly, unlike the upper Midwest/Great Plains where you have to travel long distances to find opponents, there are a lot of Division I-AA teams in or near the Northeast. If you are based in eastern Pennsylvania why play a team from Fargo, ND when you can play a team (and in some cases, a good team) from just down the road that will allow your fans to see you on the road? I'd much rather see Lehigh play a one and done or a 2 for 1 against Villanova, Delaware, or other traditionally strong Division I-AA programs that are in or near the Northeast than to play such a series against North Dakota State.

It may sound like I'm intentionally trying to be smug or condescending above. (I admittedly have made a couple of disparaging remarks about "tumbleweed country" when referring to North Dakota in a couple of threads recently.) In this particular case though, I'm really not trying to be insulting. What I'm describing is how I really think most Lehigh fans (or more generally, fans from the Northeast) would view playing North Dakota State in a regular season game.

[Neighbor2]

That's just it. Being NDSU is probably not what Lehigh, Lafayette and many others are all about. Have a ball, Bison!

[heath]

In 118 years of fooball, NDSU has compiled a 647–369–34 record and 9 national championships. Over the last 10 years we have a record of 85-32. Don't expect us to fall to the middle any time soon. We do not measure our success by what you do, worry about yourselves.

Try an ODU,MOVE UP.xnodxYou talk the talk but...............................thought so

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Try an ODU,MOVE UP.xnodxYou talk the talk but...............................thought so

Um, we just did. I have no desire to see NDSU move up any farther. I think the FBS outside of the BCS is a colossal waste of time.

[CHIP72]

Try an ODU,MOVE UP.xnodxYou talk the talk but...............................thought so

I think it's hard to move up when you don't have a league to move to. What Division I-A league would mutual sense for both the league itself and ND State?

I would also think there would be an outcry in North Dakota if ND State moved up and UND did not (or vice-versa).