AGS Poll Results - Week 11

[AGSPoll]

1 North Dakota State Bison 2161 (73)
2 Montana State Bobcats 2025 (7)
3 Eastern Washington Eagles 1895
4 Old Dominion Monarchs 1892
5 Sam Houston State Bearkats 1826 (6)
6 Georgia Southern Eagles 1722
7 New Hampshire Wildcats 1542
8 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1458
9 Central Arkansas Bears 1349
10 Wofford Terriers 1335
11 Illinois State Redbirds 1205
12 Cal Poly Mustangs 1172
13 Stony Brook Seawolves 983
14 Northern Arizona Lumberjacks 966
15 James Madison Dukes 926
16 Richmond Spiders 864
17 Villanova Wildcats 830
18 Indiana State Sycamores 768
19 South Dakota State Jackrabbits 710
20 Towson Tigers 542
21 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 464
22 Eastern Illinois Panthers 397
23 Eastern Kentucky Colonels 273
24 Albany Great Danes 242
25 Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 178

Most Significant Win:
Villanova Wildcats

Most Significant Loss:
Lehigh Mountain Hawks


26 Colgate Raiders 124
27 Sacramento State Hornets 103
28 Samford Bulldogs 76
29T Tennessee State Tigers 50
29T Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks 50
31 Southern Illinois Salukis 35
32 Youngstown State Penguins 29
33T Harvard Crimson 15
33T Chattanooga Mocs 15
33T Wagner Seahawks 15
36 Northern Iowa Panthers 11
37T The Citadel Bulldogs 7
37T Jacksonville State Gamecocks 7
39T Southern Utah Thunderbirds 3
39T Portland State Vikings 3

[RadioFan]

1: Montana State Bobcats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Old Dominion Monarchs
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: Appalachian State Mountaineers
8: New Hampshire Wildcats
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: James Madison Dukes
13: Cal Poly Mustangs
14: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
15: Richmond Spiders
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Towson Tigers
19: Indiana State Sycamores
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
22: Eastern Illinois Panthers
23: Albany Great Danes
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Colgate Raiders

[paward]

This is a good looking poll. What happen to our 100 plus voters?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Tough week...

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Old Dominion Monarchs
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: New Hampshire Wildcats
8: Illinois State Redbirds
9: Appalachian State Mountaineers
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Wofford Terriers
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Villanova Wildcats
14: Indiana State Sycamores
15: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
16: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
17: Richmond Spiders
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: Cal Poly Mustangs
20: James Madison Dukes
21: Towson Tigers
22: Colgate Raiders
23: Wagner Seahawks
24: Eastern Illinois Panthers
25: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats

[superman7515]

This is a good looking poll. What happen to our 100 plus voters?

Same thing happens every year, as their team falls out of the runnings for the playoffs, guys start dropping like flies.

[stevdock]

How many #1 votes were thrown out this week?? Would help the validity of the poll if we knew that.

[GeauxLions94]

Yes, GLTO .... tough week indeed.

1: Sam Houston State Bearkats
2: North Dakota State Bison
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Georgia Southern Eagles
6: Appalachian State Mountaineers
7: Old Dominion Monarchs
8: Wofford Terriers
9: James Madison Dukes
10: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
11: Central Arkansas Bears
12: New Hampshire Wildcats
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
16: Eastern Illinois Panthers
17: Cal Poly Mustangs
18: Indiana State Sycamores
19: Richmond Spiders
20: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
21: Villanova Wildcats
22: Samford Bulldogs
23: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
24: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks
25: Colgate Raiders

[Pard4Life]

I bumped Lehigh out of mine and Colgate is 23... and Sac State as 21... otherwise pretty close to the poll give or take a few spots and the same teams.

Top 5:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Old Dominion Monarchs

[gotts]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Old Dominion Monarchs
5: Georgia Southern Eagles
6: Sam Houston State Bearkats
7: Cal Poly Mustangs
8: Wofford Terriers
9: New Hampshire Wildcats
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: James Madison Dukes
12: Appalachian State Mountaineers
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Stony Brook Seawolves
15: Richmond Spiders
16: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
17: Villanova Wildcats
18: Illinois State Redbirds
19: Towson Tigers
20: Indiana State Sycamores
21: Eastern Illinois Panthers
22: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
23: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
24: Albany Great Danes
25: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats

In retrospect, App & ISU-R too low, CP & JMU too high?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I bumped Lehigh out of mine and Colgate is 23... and Sac State as 21... otherwise pretty close to the poll give or take a few spots and the same teams.

Top 5:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Sam Houston State Bearkats
3: New Hampshire Wildcats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Old Dominion Monarchs

I couldn't drop Lehigh totally, wouldn't make any of the polls I put them in any good. I did drop them perilously close to 20, which to me is the playoff inner circle.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

How many #1 votes were thrown out this week?? Would help the validity of the poll if we knew that.

#1 votes are not thrown out so I'm not sure what you are talking aobut? If it isn't valid to you then that's not a big deal for us though.

[AGSPoll]

How many #1 votes were thrown out this week?? Would help the validity of the poll if we knew that.

None were thrown out.

[crusader11]

If Colgate isn't ranked, than neither should Lehigh.

Colgate's offense is so unique in that it can be quick scoring, or a ball-control offense that moves methodically down the field. Their offensive output the last six weeks has been incredible (47, 51, 57, 47, 65, 35). I'm excited to see who they draw in the first round.

[TheRevSFA]

It was a tough week...

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Old Dominion Monarchs
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Georgia Southern Eagles
8: Appalachian State Mountaineers
9: Wofford Terriers
10: New Hampshire Wildcats
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: James Madison Dukes
13: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
14: Illinois State Redbirds
15: Cal Poly Mustangs
16: Richmond Spiders
17: Indiana State Sycamores
18: Towson Tigers
19: Villanova Wildcats
20: Eastern Illinois Panthers
21: Albany Great Danes
22: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
23: Colgate Raiders
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats

[stevdock]

#1 votes are not thrown out so I'm not sure what you are talking aobut? If it isn't valid to you then that's not a big deal for us though.

I count 86 first place votes times 25 points each means the top total should be 2150. NDSU has 2161, kind of impossible based on 86 votes.

[WileECoyote06]

Great poll this week. And you know what, things usually work themselves out just like many of the posters said they would. i just hate that i missed a week this year.

[DSUrocks07]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Old Dominion Monarchs
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Appalachian State Mountaineers
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
8: New Hampshire Wildcats
9: Stony Brook Seawolves
10: Wofford Terriers
11: James Madison Dukes
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Cal Poly Mustangs
14: Illinois State Redbirds
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: Richmond Spiders
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Towson Tigers
20: Eastern Illinois Panthers
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
23: Indiana State Sycamores
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

Toughest week yet but I'm comfortable with my choices.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Lehigh might be in with a win anyway, but even at No. 21, it doesn't look like too bad a situation for the playoffs.

[WileECoyote06]

If Colgate isn't ranked, than neither should Lehigh.

Colgate's offense is so unique in that it can be quick scoring, or a ball-control offense that moves methodically down the field. Their offensive output the last six weeks has been incredible (47, 51, 57, 47, 65, 35). I'm excited to see who they draw in the first round.

Even though Lehigh has been in the top fifteen for much of the season? One loss doesn't completely negate nine straight wins. . . xconfusedx

[Sam_Kats]

#12 Sam. Haha

Maybe you like the solitude.

[BEAR]

Any E. Illinois fans on this board?

[DSUrocks07]

#12 Sam. Haha

Maybe you like the solitude.

Depending on how you guys look against A&M (I do WATCH the games btw), you have an outside shot to move up into the Top 5.

[FargoBison]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Sam Houston State Bearkats
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Old Dominion Monarchs
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: Appalachian State Mountaineers
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: New Hampshire Wildcats
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Illinois State Redbirds
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Richmond Spiders
14: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
15: Indiana State Sycamores
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: James Madison Dukes
18: Cal Poly Mustangs
19: Eastern Illinois Panthers
20: Villanova Wildcats
21: Towson Tigers
22: Sacramento State Hornets
23: Samford Bulldogs
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Tennessee-Martin Skyhawks

[Sam_Kats]

Depending on how you guys look against A&M (I do WATCH the games btw), you have an outside shot to move up into the Top 5.

We're already in THE top 5. Just not YOUR top 5. Luckily YOUR top 5 matters ZERO to the selection committee.

[BEAR]

Southland Conference @SouthlandSports FOOTBALL: In latest #FCS Coaches poll, #SHSU is still No. 3, #UCA climbs to No. 10 and #SELU is receiving votes. #SLCFB #SouthlandStrong

[bluehenbillk]

Very nice poll - the top 23 were all in my poll & were slotted correctly IMO.

[AGSPoll]

I count 86 first place votes times 25 points each means the top total should be 2150. NDSU has 2161, kind of impossible based on 86 votes.

No votes were thrown out, as you asked. Teams that receive only a single #1 vote are still given the points for that vote, it just doesn't show up as a (1) next to them.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

We're already in THE top 5. Just not YOUR top 5. Luckily YOUR top 5 matters ZERO to the selection committee.

God, put away the butthurt. It's one ballot.

After looking at this, I'm trying to determine why you should be ranked much higher than UCA. Both of you have a FBS loss, a non counter win and a close one against SFA (just different results). They have the win over you so tell me, why shouldn't UCA be 5 and you be 9?

Keep in mind, I put you at 5, which I'm rethinking.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I count 86 first place votes times 25 points each means the top total should be 2150. NDSU has 2161, kind of impossible based on 86 votes.

Teams that get a single #1 vote are not listed as has been explained many times in the past however the vote is not thrown out.

[stevdock]

No votes were thrown out, as you asked. Teams that receive only a single #1 vote are still given the points for that vote, it just doesn't show up as a (1) next to them.

Ok good to know. How many total votes were there then??

[crusader11]

Even though Lehigh has been in the top fifteen for much of the season? One loss doesn't completely negate nine straight wins. . . xconfusedx

Have you seen either team play a down this year?

Have you seen what Colgate has been doing to teams for the past seven weeks?

They are a top 25 football team right now.

[DSUrocks07]

We're already in THE top 5. Just not YOUR top 5. Luckily YOUR top 5 matters ZERO to the selection committee.

Guess what, NOBODY'S ballot matters to the selection committee. xcoffeex

[TheRevSFA]

We're already in THE top 5. Just not YOUR top 5. Luckily YOUR top 5 matters ZERO to the selection committee.

Neither do any of the other ones big guy. The committee picks based on D1 wins.

[JMUNJ08]

Feel free to let me know your thoughts! I definitely think I got the order of #24 & 25 right along with #13 - 15...

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Old Dominion Monarchs
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Georgia Southern Eagles
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: New Hampshire Wildcats
11: Appalachian State Mountaineers
12: Cal Poly Mustangs
13: Villanova Wildcats
14: Richmond Spiders
15: James Madison Dukes
16: Indiana State Sycamores
17: Towson Tigers
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
20: Albany Great Danes
21: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
22: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
23: Wagner Seahawks
24: Colgate Raiders
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

[bostonspider]

Feel free to let me know your thoughts! I definitely think I got the order of #24 & 25 right along with #13 - 15...

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Old Dominion Monarchs
4: Eastern Washington Eagles
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Central Arkansas Bears
7: Georgia Southern Eagles
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Illinois State Redbirds
10: New Hampshire Wildcats
11: Appalachian State Mountaineers
12: Cal Poly Mustangs
13: Villanova Wildcats
14: Richmond Spiders
15: James Madison Dukes
16: Indiana State Sycamores
17: Towson Tigers
18: Stony Brook Seawolves
19: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
20: Albany Great Danes
21: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
22: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
23: Wagner Seahawks
24: Colgate Raiders
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

Except 14 beat 13....

[Sam_Kats]

God, put away the butthurt. It's one ballot.

After looking at this, I'm trying to determine why you should be ranked much higher than UCA. Both of you have a FBS loss, a non counter win and a close one against SFA (just different results). They have the win over you so tell me, why shouldn't UCA be 5 and you be 9?

Keep in mind, I put you at 5, which I'm rethinking.

No butthurt here - just difference in opinions. Isn't that what this board is for?? And I think UCA has been under-ranked all season. Ok, I'll play along - let's use your OWN logic. You want to count the SFA results but not compare other results with conference opponents?
UCA SH
Nicholls (34-14) (41-0)
McNeese (27-26) (45-10)
Lamar (24-14) (56-7)
SELa (34-14) (70-0)
NwSt (35-14) (52-17)

Not to mention, as you stated, we beat SFA while UCA lost to them.

We'll be #2 or #3 in EVERY other poll out there - so these discussions are moot points.

[Sam_Kats]

Neither do any of the other ones big guy. The committee picks based on D1 wins.

The polls matter.

[walliver]

Neither do any of the other ones big guy. The committee picks based on D1 wins.

The committee tends to pick the strongest 5 teams. These teams tend to have the most wins, but that is not the criterion. There is also a lot of regional and conference politics involved.

[BEAR]

Since you played all those teams after we did, that means we TENDERIZED them for you...lucky SAM. xlolx

[TheRevSFA]

The polls matter.

No, they don't. If they did, in 2010 SFA would have been a 4 or 5 seed as opposed to effectively the 8th seed.

They don't matter.

Sam, at most, gets a four seed, but with 12 at large teams having 8 D1 wins, that doesn't put Sam at the forefront of the at large list.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Except 14 beat 13....

What's that matter? 16 beat 1 in his poll, 22 beat 16 in his poll, and I'm sure dozens of other examples.

[Sam_Kats]

Again, the polls matter.

[Sammy94]

The committee tends to pick the strongest 5 teams. These teams tend to have the most wins, but that is not the criterion. There is also a lot of regional and conference politics involved.

This and the polls also seem to reflect the strongest 5 teams.

[JMUNJ08]

What's that matter? 16 beat 1 in his poll, 22 beat 16 in his poll, and I'm sure dozens of other examples.

Eh, I said I got the three in a row right from #13 - 15 in my poll so there is a point. I do think Nova beat us more handily with 0 drama at the end unlike the UR game (but they had it most of the way there too). So I went with the vs. JMU role instead of UR/ Nova H2H (plus, I still like Nova's win over ODU alot).

[asumike83]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Eastern Washington Eagles
3: Montana State Bobcats
4: Old Dominion Monarchs
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: New Hampshire Wildcats
8: Appalachian State Mountaineers
9: Wofford Terriers
10: Central Arkansas Bears
11: Cal Poly Mustangs
12: James Madison Dukes
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Villanova Wildcats
15: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
16: Stony Brook Seawolves
17: Richmond Spiders
18: Indiana State Sycamores
19: Towson Tigers
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Eastern Illinois Panthers
22: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
23: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
24: Samford Bulldogs
25: Albany Great Danes

[Sammy94]

I didn't think this week was that tough.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Old Dominion Monarchs
4: Sam Houston State Bearkats
5: Eastern Washington Eagles
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: New Hampshire Wildcats
8: Central Arkansas Bears
9: Appalachian State Mountaineers
10: Wofford Terriers
11: Stony Brook Seawolves
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Illinois State Redbirds
14: Cal Poly Mustangs
15: Richmond Spiders
16: Villanova Wildcats
17: Indiana State Sycamores
18: James Madison Dukes
19: Towson Tigers
20: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
21: Eastern Illinois Panthers
22: Albany Great Danes
23: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

[TheRevSFA]

This and the polls also seem to reflect the strongest 5 teams.


But is Sam actually one of the strongest 5 teams? That's the debate. Sam's ranked high based off of last season.

The question is, who have they beat? Outside of the SLC teams, which they ran through (save for UCA) the only other win is UIW, which doesn't count in terms of total victories. Sam honestly needs to pull the upset at Kyle Field Saturday to cement a seed. That's probalby not going to happen because the rumor is Fritz is going to sit the starters after one half.

So what does the committee look at? A 7-3 (because the UIW game doesn't count) Sam team who's best win will be against McNeese (especially if SFA loses on Saturday which, God knows, at this rate it's probably going to happen) or a team like Stony Brook, who may not have won their conference (if Liberty can spoil it) but did beat a FBS opponent this year, or some of the Big Sky 3 and 4 teams...or even the MVFC 3 and 4 teams who are just sitting on the edge of coming in.

There will be more 8 win teams looking at an at-large bid than slots available. Usually that's not the case.

Yes we all know you and UCA played the same schedule for conference, the difference is, they beat you. The SLC is usually a one bid conference for a reason......

I still think Sam pulls a 4 or 5 seed though but it's not a given at this point.

[darell1976]

Here's mine:

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Montana State Bobcats
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Old Dominion Monarchs
5: Sam Houston State Bearkats
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: Appalachian State Mountaineers
8: Wofford Terriers
9: Stony Brook Seawolves
10: New Hampshire Wildcats
11: James Madison Dukes
12: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
13: Central Arkansas Bears
14: Cal Poly Mustangs
15: Illinois State Redbirds
16: Richmond Spiders
17: Towson Tigers
18: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
19: Indiana State Sycamores
20: Villanova Wildcats
21: Eastern Illinois Panthers
22: Albany Great Danes
23: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats

[darell1976]

36 Northern Iowa Panthers 11


Nice homer vote from someone.

[BisonBacker]

If Colgate isn't ranked, than neither should Lehigh.

Colgate's offense is so unique in that it can be quick scoring, or a ball-control offense that moves methodically down the field. Their offensive output the last six weeks has been incredible (47, 51, 57, 47, 65, 35). I'm excited to see who they draw in the first round.

Where was this powerhouse offense when they played USD? You know USD, The team Colgate lost to and the same USD team who hasn't won a conference game in the MVFC?

[crusader11]

Where was this powerhouse offense when they played USD? You know USD, The team Colgate lost to and the same team who hasn't won a conference game in the MVFC?

I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but it's possible for a team to get better from September to November.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Where was this powerhouse offense when they played USD? You know USD, The team Colgate lost to and the same USD team who hasn't won a conference game in the MVFC?

Teams suffer bad losses. Va Tech lost to an average JMU team yet won the ACC. Syracuse hoops lost to a mediocre D2 team. Colorado lost to Texas 41-7 in 2001 then proceeded to beat them 2 months later in the Big 12 title game.

Colgate is more than capable of beating someone in the playoffs, especially in the opening round.

[Twentysix]

The polls matter.

NDSU was #6 or something the final week of the regular season last year, we got the #2 seed. I wouldn't fret.

[Twentysix]

Teams suffer bad losses. Va Tech lost to an average JMU team yet won the ACC. Syracuse hoops lost to a mediocre D2 team. Colorado lost to Texas 41-7 in 2001 then proceeded to beat them 2 months later in the Big 12 title game.

Colgate is more than capable of beating someone in the playoffs, especially in the opening round.

Loss to an unranked team. Surely thats not something lehigh can handle xblehx.

[Sammy94]

I still think Sam pulls a 4 or 5 seed though but it's not a given at this point.

I hope so just for the fact I don't have to travel but I don't care. Would not shock me if we are seed #3 or not at all. I think most people that matter in the seeding know this team is full of talent and is one of the top 5 in the country. I also think politics play a bigger roll in the seeding then it should. Although scheduling may bring up some conversations about who played who or who beat who in the grand scheme of things it may not matter. The NCAA is all about trying to set up the seeds for a NC game that will make the most money.

[BisonBacker]

I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but it's possible for a team to get better from September to November.


Teams suffer bad losses. Va Tech lost to an average JMU team yet won the ACC. Syracuse hoops lost to a mediocre D2 team. Colorado lost to Texas 41-7 in 2001 then proceeded to beat them 2 months later in the Big 12 title game.

Colgate is more than capable of beating someone in the playoffs, especially in the opening round.

This is for both of you guys. Forward it to your respective AD's for when they make their schedules next year.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Desserts/Cakes/Cupcakes/Top.aspx?src=mer267

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This is for both of you guys. Forward it to your respective AD's for when they make their schedules next year.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Desserts/Cakes/Cupcakes/Top.aspx?src=mer267

No D2 games and no FBS games. Not the greatest slate but not the worst this year.

Lehigh plays UNH at home next year along with @ Princeton, Monmouth, @ Columbia and CCSU. Besides Columbia I have no complaints.

[darell1976]

This is for both of you guys. Forward it to your respective AD's for when they make their schedules next year.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Desserts/Cakes/Cupcakes/Top.aspx?src=mer267

Or just ask NDSU AD Gene Taylor about his recipies for cupcakes....he is the Sara Lee of it.

[Twentysix]

This is for both of you guys. Forward it to your respective AD's for when they make their schedules next year.
http://allrecipes.com/Recipes/Desserts/Cakes/Cupcakes/Top.aspx?src=mer267

Lehigh played 4 OOC cupcakes this year. Colgate played 2. They've already got it down.

[Bison06]

Or just ask NDSU AD Gene Taylor about his recipies for cupcakes....he is the Sara Lee of it.

Don't expect an answer from him though, he is too busy preparing for the playoffs. Playoffs, you know that thing that the good teams qualify to play for at the end of the regular season. I know it's been a while since UND qualified so you may have forgotten about them.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh played 4 OOC cupcakes this year. Colgate played 2. They've already got it down.


CCSU and Columbia were cupcakes. Princeton and Liberty are not. Monmouth is somewhere in between. They've had a rough go at it given the hurricane.

[Twentysix]

No D2 games and no FBS games. Not the greatest slate but not the worst this year.

Lehigh plays UNH at home next year along with @ Princeton, Monmouth, @ Columbia and CCSU. Besides Columbia I have no complaints.

If NDSU played those teams, UNH would get credit, but the FCS community would say we played 4 cupcakes.

[Twentysix]

CCSU and Columbia were cupcakes. Princeton and Liberty are not. Monmouth is somewhere in between. They've had a rough go at it given the hurricane.

Turner Gill turned the Jayhawks into a cupcake. He surely didn't make liberty any better.

[crusader11]

Holy Cross played a more challenging non-conference schedule than North Dakota State, FWIW. In fact, according to Warren Nolan, HC played the third most challenging schedule in FCS: http://warrennolan.com/football1aa/2012/sos

New Hampshire, Dartmouth, Brown, Harvard, Wagner vs. Robert Morris, Colorado State, and Prairie View A&M

Not even close.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

If NDSU played those teams, UNH would get credit, but the FCS community would say we played 4 cupcakes.

Lehigh plays an all FCS schedule filled with AQ's and Ivies. I think it's the right way to do business. I oppose FBS money games.

[appfan2008]

#8 looks great... wonderful turn around on the field for the mountaineers

[Twentysix]

Holy Cross played a more challenging non-conference schedule than North Dakota State, FWIW. In fact, according to Warren Nolan, HC played the third most challenging schedule in FCS: http://warrennolan.com/football1aa/2012/sos

New Hampshire, Dartmouth, Brown, Harvard, Wagner vs. Robert Morris, Colorado State, and Prairie View A&M

Not even close.

That may be so, but NDSU played a conference schedule that would have left any PL team winless.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That may be so, but NDSU played a conference schedule that would have left any PL team winless.


That's an ignorant statement.

[Twentysix]

That's an ignorant statement.

Its a justified statement, your best couldn't beat our worst. Colgate #1 in the PL lost by 10 to University of South Dakota #10 in the MVFC.

If you would like a comparison, 31-21 54-0. ;)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

That may be so, but NDSU played a conference schedule that would have left any PL team winless.

I think milquetoast is considered tough for the PL.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Its a justified statement, your best couldn't beat our worst.


Ok, maybe the PL should just bow out of the playoffs this year. The league is obviously such an inferior conference to all the high and mightys. Colgate lost to USD, time to tell the kids they're a bunch of losers and don't deserve to prove you're better than that.

You're a clown.

[crusader11]

That may be so, but NDSU played a conference schedule that would have left any PL team winless.

True, and fair point. But, NDSU's non-conference schedule is pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

Can't control the conference games, but can always control the non-conference.

[darell1976]

Don't expect an answer from him though, he is too busy preparing for the playoffs. Playoffs, you know that thing that the good teams qualify to play for at the end of the regular season. I know it's been a while since UND qualified so you may have forgotten about them.

You have made the playoffs three times (if you include this season) since 2000 don't beat your chest too much.

[crusader11]

And, let me clarify by saying, the top three teams in the PL would be competitive in the MVC (Lehigh, Colgate, Fordham). Yeah, Colgate didn't have a good game against South Dakota, so what? It happens. They're a far different team now, than they were then.

Remember when Lehigh beat Northern Iowa??? Pretty sure everyone east of Pittsburgh thought that was a gimme game for UNI...

[Twentysix]

You have made the playoffs three times (if you include this season) since 2000 don't beat your chest too much.

How many times have you made the playoffs since 2006? xcrazyx

[FargoBison]

And, let me clarify by saying, the top three teams in the PL would be competitive in the MVC (Lehigh, Colgate, Fordham). Yeah, Colgate didn't have a good game against South Dakota, so what? It happens. They're a far different team now, than they were then.

Remember when Lehigh beat Northern Iowa??? Pretty sure everyone east of Pittsburgh thought that was a gimme game for UNI...

They'd be .500 or worse.

Any team can win one game, surviving the MVFC grind is another story. Depth, Depth, Depth!

[CopperCat]

Don't expect an answer from him though, he is too busy preparing for the playoffs. Playoffs, you know that thing that the good teams qualify to play for at the end of the regular season. I know it's been a while since UND qualified so you may have forgotten about them.

Dude, give it a rest. The anti-UND jargon is getting exponentially tired, especially when you guys don't even play them.

[MTfan4life]

NDSU was #6 or something the final week of the regular season last year, we got the #2 seed. I wouldn't fret.

Correction sir. NDSU was #3/4/4 in the final AGS/TSN/Coaches polls respectively. An example you should point out instead is that Eastern Washington was #1 in the final regular season poll in 2010, but they got the #5 seed.

[FargoBison]

Dude, give it a rest. The anti-UND jargon is getting exponentially tired, especially when you guys don't even play them.

To be fair Darrell as usual brought NDSU-UND into it. The guy has no self control but so do many Bison fans. They constantly fall into his trap.

Bison fans just do what I do and ignore that troll.

[Bison06]

You have made the playoffs three times (if you include this season) since 2000 don't beat your chest too much.

That's really all you have Darell? I would say you're better than that, but I know you're not.

It's fun to cherry pick statistics isn't it, I love picking random dates in the past to start my statistical analysis to prove my point.

This season is the only one that matters and come Sunday, you don't have a horse in the race buddy.

[darell1976]

How many times have you made the playoffs since 2006? xcrazyx

Since 2006

2007-playoffs
2008-2011 - not eligible due to transition
2012- not making the playoffs.

NDSU since 2006

2006-2007- not eligible for playoffs
2008- no playoffs
2009- no playoffs (3-8)
2010-lost to EWU
2011- NC
2012- playoffs

Funny how you guys blast people for their OOC schedules but yet fail to look at yours.

[Bison06]

Dude, give it a rest. The anti-UND jargon is getting exponentially tired, especially when you guys don't even play them.

Why don't you give it a rest, he brought NDSU and UND into it, not me. Don't like it, put me on ignore. I promise I won't lose any sleep over it.

[darell1976]

To be fair Darrell as usual brought NDSU-UND into it. The guy has no self control but so do many Bison fans. They constantly fall into his trap.

Bison fans just do what I do and ignore that troll.

How did I bring UND into it by bringing up a playoff fact of NDSU. You guys brought up UND.

[darell1976]

That's really all you have Darell? I would say you're better than that, but I know you're not.

It's fun to cherry pick statistics isn't it, I love picking random dates in the past to start my statistical analysis to prove my point.

This season is the only one that matters and come Sunday, you don't have a horse in the race buddy.

It is funny how you guys like to throw that word cupcake around to other teams, when you know that NDSU is king of the OOC cupcakes.

[FargoBison]

Darrell I will pull you off ignore to tell you that you do this constantly. You are worse than fing lakes with this BS, you mentioned Gene Taylor when nobody said a damn word about either NDSU or UND.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You have made the playoffs three times (if you include this season) since 2000 don't beat your chest too much.

Sorry man, that's just dumb. Why are we trying to derail this conversation anyway? If UND had a leg to stand on in this argument about scheduling then I could see the angle as something other than just monkey **** but at this point they do not.

This is simply to manufacture an argument that has zero to do with this thread.

[Bison06]

Since 2006

2007-playoffs
2008-2011 - not eligible due to transition
2012- not making the playoffs.

NDSU since 2006

2006-2007- not eligible for playoffs
2008- no playoffs
2009- no playoffs (3-8)
2010-lost to EWU
2011- NC
2012- playoffs

Funny how you guys blast people for their OOC schedules but yet fail to look at yours.

I'm looking at it, what do you want to talk about? FBS game-check, two home "warm up" games to get ready for the hardest conference in football-check. Playoff ticket punched-check.

[FargoBison]

NDSU per Massey has the #13 schedule in the FCS. Lehigh is like 82nd.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Darrell I will pull you off ignore to tell you that you do this constantly. You are worse than fing lakes with this BS, you mentioned Gene Taylor when nobody said a damn word about either NDSU or UND.

Not worse than Lakes but it is a pretty sad attempt at discussion for sure and is in that same vein.

[Bison06]

It is funny how you guys like to throw that word cupcake around to other teams, when you know that NDSU is king of the OOC cupcakes.

Why do people get so caught up in OOC schedule anyway. Last time I checked you have to play every team on your schedule, so the schedule should be judged as a whole.

[darell1976]

Darrell I will pull you off ignore to tell you that you do this constantly. You are worse than fing lakes with this BS, you mentioned Gene Taylor when nobody said a damn word about either NDSU or UND.

I mentioned GT because he schedules cupcakes in OOC games thats why you get those wins. You don't think the OOC games of Prairie View, Robert Morris, Lafayette, and St. Francis didn't help get NDSU where they are?

[TheRevSFA]

Or just ask NDSU AD Gene Taylor about his recipies for cupcakes....he is the Sara Lee of it.


Why don't you give it a rest, he brought NDSU and UND into it, not me. Don't like it, put me on ignore. I promise I won't lose any sleep over it.

Yes he smack talked NDSU's schedule making, but he didn't turn this into a UND-NDSU pissing contest.

-Third party

[darell1976]

I'm looking at it, what do you want to talk about? FBS game-check, two home "warm up" games to get ready for the hardest conference in football-check. Playoff ticket punched-check.

I answered Twentysix's question...please try to keep up.

[darell1976]

Why do people get so caught up in OOC schedule anyway. Last time I checked you have to play every team on your schedule, so the schedule should be judged as a whole.


Your question should be directed to Bisonbacker.

[Twentysix]

I answered Twentysix's question...please try to keep up.

I don't think so bub. I wasn't really asking a question, just pointing out your cherry picked date was bupkus.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Go Red Birds!
Go Dukes!
Go Griz!
Go Vikes!

[Bison06]

I answered Twentysix's question...please try to keep up.

So let's ask this question, by saying NDSU has a weak OOC schedule what are you implying? That if we scheduled more difficult OOC games we wouldn't make the playoffs, wouldn't have won the national championship last year?

Who gives a ****, this is why we have playoffs, so we don't have to argue about this ****. Sure it makes for interesting comparisons, but we have a playoff so we don't have to talk about SOS.

[darell1976]

I don't think so bub. I wasn't really asking a question, just pointing out your cherry picked date was bupkus.

I didn't answer your question from post #75?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?123439-AGS-Poll-Results-Week-11/page8

[Bison06]

Your question should be directed to Bisonbacker.

I am asking you.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Smart teams who don't need the money schedule sensible OOC teams for winnable home games. That is it.

[darell1976]

So let's ask this question, by saying NDSU has a weak OOC schedule what are you implying? That if we scheduled more difficult OOC games we wouldn't make the playoffs, wouldn't have won the national championship last year?

Who gives a ****, this is why we have playoffs, so we don't have to argue about this ****. Sure it makes for interesting comparisons, but we have a playoff so we don't have to talk about SOS.

So why are Bison fans blasting Lehigh's OOC (or cupcake as they call it) schedule?

[Twentysix]

I didn't answer your question from post #75?
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?123439-AGS-Poll-Results-Week-11/page8

It was rhetorical, I wanted you to ponder it not answer it.

[WileECoyote06]

Have you seen either team play a down this year?

Have you seen what Colgate has been doing to teams for the past seven weeks?

They are a top 25 football team right now.

Of course I haven't. I do read box scores, game summaries, power ratings, and occasionally the game threads on this page. Colgate is a Top 25 team because you say so? They've won six games in a row; but it doesn't mean that they can escape their past. It's been proven over and over again that this poll balances itself out. Colgate should just take care of its last regular season game and I'm pretty sure after the carnage of this coming weekend, they'll be voted into the top-25.

Lehigh has been in the Top-25 all season and as I said, you can't negate 9 straight wins, even with them being less than stellar.

[darell1976]

I am asking you.

Really? One person(who didn't start this) is referred to as people?


Why do people get so caught up in OOC schedule anyway. Last time I checked you have to play every team on your schedule, so the schedule should be judged as a whole.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So why are Bison fans blasting Lehigh's OOC (or cupcake as they call it) schedule?

Lehigh's WHOLE schedule is cupcake. yeah, I said it.

[Bison06]

So why are Bison fans blasting Lehigh's OOC (or cupcake as they call it) schedule?

I can't speak for others, but I am critical of their record because of the conference SOS, so it is difficult to know how good Lehigh is because they don't play a traditionally difficult schedule. Without a difficult OOC game, Lehigh is an unknown quantity.

You usually don't have to wonder about a team if they come out of a traditional power conference because they made their way through the conference schedule.

[Twentysix]

Lehigh's WHOLE schedule is cupcake. yeah, I said it.

Like a buffet at cakeology? WANT! NOW!

[darell1976]

It was rhetorical, I wanted you to ponder it not answer it.

Kinda hard to tell rhetorical questions from actual questions on the internet unless you type the word rhetorical. Maybe if you yell it outside(since we are in the same city) I could tell the difference.:D

[BisonBacker]

You have made the playoffs three times (if you include this season) since 2000 don't beat your chest too much.

Come back and talk smart when you guys finally do something other than lose to NAIA teams. Thanks for playing I'm sure we have some nice consolation prizes for you. In the meantime don't you have some ButtHockey to watch or something?

[Bison06]

Really? One person(who didn't start this) is referred to as people?

Because this is the very first time this has been brought up right?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Like a buffet at cakeology? WANT! NOW!

A visual representation for those who need it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n2M31R4Iv58/TEZPUAD9k-I/AAAAAAAABg0/aJwh5uHuiUQ/s400/06-19-10+174.1.jpg


Actually now that I look at it, those Oreo's might be too hard.

[darell1976]

A visual representation for those who need it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n2M31R4Iv58/TEZPUAD9k-I/AAAAAAAABg0/aJwh5uHuiUQ/s400/06-19-10+174.1.jpg

Those Oreo ones look good.

[Twentysix]

Kinda hard to tell rhetorical questions from actual questions on the internet unless you type the word rhetorical. Maybe if you yell it outside(since we are in the same city) I could tell the difference.:D

Ill try that next time, its no big deal either way.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Darell, et al

http://www.absolutionmediation.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/shut_up.jpg

not even I give a **** about this argument today.

[Professor Chaos]

I know you're going to think I'm crazy, but it's possible for a team to get better from September to November.
Just like a USD team that replaced 15 starters off last years team got better from September to November and still hasn't managed to win an MVFC game.


Teams suffer bad losses. Va Tech lost to an average JMU team yet won the ACC. Syracuse hoops lost to a mediocre D2 team. Colorado lost to Texas 41-7 in 2001 then proceeded to beat them 2 months later in the Big 12 title game.

Colgate is more than capable of beating someone in the playoffs, especially in the opening round.
The problem that PL teams have is that you can't afford bad losses due to the strength of the conference like a team from the MVFC or CAA can. Similarly, that is why your OOC schedule is scrutinized moreso than a school like NDSU's is when it comes to evaluating at large credentials. 5 of NDSU's 7 conference opponents were ranked in the AGS top 25 at the time the game was played (will be 6 of 8 by selection Sunday). That gives NDSU margin for error that Lehigh doesn't have. That also gives a school like NDSU the luxury to schedule cupcakes OOC that a school like Lehigh doesn't have.

[darell1976]

Come back and talk smart when you guys finally do something other than lose to NAIA teams. Thanks for playing I'm sure we have some nice consolation prizes for you. In the meantime don't you have some ButtHockey to watch or something?

Really? NAIA teams, first it was 1 team, and we are on pace to match NDSU's win record their first year out of transition so we must be doing something right since you guys set the bar for other FCS teams to follow, except I don't want our team to go 3-8 in our second year of playoff eligibility like your team did.

[Gil Dobie]

This is a good looking poll. What happen to our 100 plus voters?

Hanging out with Mattie in the Crapsville Bar and Grille!

[deez_na]

Really? NAIA teams, first it was 1 team, and we are on pace to match NDSU's win record their first year out of transition so we must be doing something right since you guys set the bar for other FCS teams to follow, except I don't want our team to go 3-8 in our second year of playoff eligibility like your team did.

With Mussman as head coach you might struggle to sniff playoffs for quite awhile.

[darell1976]

With Mussman as head coach you might struggle to sniff playoffs for quite awhile.

3 more seasons to find out.

[deez_na]

3 more seasons to find out.

That's true, He needs to learn to work on defense a bit more and quit always running the ball early in games with the lead.

[darell1976]

That's true, He needs to learn to work on defense a bit more and quit always running the ball early in games with the lead.

The biggest issue during the offseason to work on. I agree 100% with you.

[dystopiamembrane]

Nice homer vote from someone.
I'm not a UNI fan.

[BisonBacker]

Really? NAIA teams, first it was 1 team, and we are on pace to match NDSU's win record their first year out of transition so we must be doing something right since you guys set the bar for other FCS teams to follow, except I don't want our team to go 3-8 in our second year of playoff eligibility like your team did.

Again talk to anyone who will listen when your team does something other than lose to NAIA teams or has something other than moral victories to celebrate.

[OldHornet]

Someone please explain how Albany, Colgate and BC can recieve more votes than Sac St? Sac has wins over Colorado (granted they're weak but still FBS) and Cal Poly. Those teams have weak schedules!!

[Twentysix]

Someone please explain how Albany, Colgate and BC can recieve more votes than Sac St? Sac has wins over Colorado (granted they're weak but still FBS) and Cal Poly. Those teams have weak schedules!!

ECB xlolx

[Engineer86]

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Old Dominion Monarchs
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: Appalachian State Mountaineers
6: Georgia Southern Eagles
7: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
8: New Hampshire Wildcats
9: Stony Brook Seawolves
10: Wofford Terriers
11: James Madison Dukes
12: Sam Houston State Bearkats
13: Cal Poly Mustangs
14: Illinois State Redbirds
15: Central Arkansas Bears
16: Richmond Spiders
17: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
18: Villanova Wildcats
19: Towson Tigers
20: Eastern Illinois Panthers
21: Albany Great Danes
22: Bethune-Cookman Wildcats
23: Indiana State Sycamores
24: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
25: Lehigh Mountain Hawks

Toughest week yet but I'm comfortable with my choices.

I agree with Lehigh, but how does SB only drop to 9, seems overrated based on schedule and Liberty loss.

[LEHIGH61]

Again, the polls matter.All pollls, EXCEPT AGS, matter. AGS has a large percentage of homers and/or ignorant trash talkers.

Not a legitimate poll.

[gotts]

All pollls, EXCEPT AGS, matter. AGS has a large percentage of homers and/or ignorant trash talkers.

Not a legitimate poll.

Can we assume your statement is self-inclusive?

[ursus arctos horribilis]

All pollls, EXCEPT AGS, matter. AGS has a large percentage of homers and/or ignorant trash talkers.

Not a legitimate poll.

It's been shown several times now that your statement is a figment of imagination of some people that want to look for an easy answer.

In fact the only group that had somewhat of a homer bias when done last year was the Patriot League if I remember correctly.

The AGS Poll also more closely replicated the final results on the field more than any other and it has been that way for a long time.

You may not like it but that's the fact Jack.

[URMite]

Someone please explain how Albany, Colgate and BC can recieve more votes than Sac St? Sac has wins over Colorado (granted they're weak but still FBS) and Cal Poly. Those teams have weak schedules!!

At least two of those have a win you don't have...the AQ. That shouldn't matter but to a lot of voters it does.

[Engineer86]

Lehigh played 4 OOC cupcakes this year. Colgate played 2. They've already got it down.

... Add a pinch of Robert Morris and a splash of Prarie View, now to make it look like a pretty OOC cupcake add in a topping of Colorado St

Seriously, you guys are not the ones that should be talking about cupcake OOC schedules

[NoDak 4 Ever]

... Add a pinch of Robert Morris and a splash of Prarie View, now to make it look like a pretty OOC cupcake add in a topping of Colorado St

Seriously, you guys are not the ones that should be talking about cupcake OOC schedules

Again, a cupcake appetizer is better than a 3 course meal.

[FargoBison]

... Add a pinch of Robert Morris and a splash of Prarie View, now to make it look like a pretty OOC cupcake add in a topping of Colorado St

Seriously, you guys are not the ones that should be talking about cupcake OOC schedules

NDSU SOS #13
Lehigh SOS #82

I think we can say whatever we want.

[darell1976]

... Add a pinch of Robert Morris and a splash of Prarie View, now to make it look like a pretty OOC cupcake add in a topping of Colorado St

Seriously, you guys are not the ones that should be talking about cupcake OOC schedules

My point exactly.

[GoAgs72]

Someone please explain how Albany, Colgate and BC can recieve more votes than Sac St? Sac has wins over Colorado (granted they're weak but still FBS) and Cal Poly. Those teams have weak schedules!!

I voted Sac State #24, Albany at #25 and Colgate and BC were not on my ballot.

[Twentysix]

... Add a pinch of Robert Morris and a splash of Prarie View, now to make it look like a pretty OOC cupcake add in a topping of Colorado St

Seriously, you guys are not the ones that should be talking about cupcake OOC schedules

A) Lehigh couldn't beat Colorado State.

B) OOC matters for Lehigh because the patriot league is a weak non-scholarship conference.

C) With our OOC schedule we are inline for the #1 seed are you trying to argue our OOC is some how not good enough? With yours you could potentially be left out of the playoffs at 10-1. Its funny how you are trying to make comparisons like the schools are equal. I guess I liken this to WAC school telling an SEC school they don't belong because they played easy OOC(Alabama played WKU WCU and Florida Atlantic this year). You are welcome to live in La La land if you want, but the Patriot doesn't even sniff the MVFC's jock when it comes to SOS.

D) our OOC could be 3 home games against Lehigh Colgate and Fordham to start the year and its still 3 cupcakes. Whatever messageboard credibility Lehigh was begining to earn for their league is being squandered by idiots making comparisons between the PL and the MVFC. Your league is the cupcake bakery.

We have the league strength to eat cupcakes, your league members are the cupcakes.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

My point exactly.

How does the point make sense? One group NEEDS to play a tough OOC to have a leg to stand on in this argument when it comes playoff time due to a lack of strength in the teams they have to play in conference.

Several other teams/groups have a leg to stand already with a Strength factor and can bring in or play some teams due to that strength and still be able to make the SOS argument.

The facts are right above your post in the SOS ranking. Even with both teams playing a lackluster OOC (we'll all concede that as fact) take a look at the overall difference and the rougher road one team has over the other in getting wins.

[Hambone]

Or just ask NDSU AD Gene Taylor about his recipies for cupcakes....he is the Sara Lee of it.

Darell, Darell, Darell........xsmhx

[World]

D) our OOC could be 3 home games against Lehigh Colgate and Fordham to start the year and its still 3 cupcakes. Whatever messageboard credibility Lehigh was begining to earn for their league is being squandered by idiots making comparisons between the PL and the MVFC. Your league is the cupcake bakery.

Curious, how has the Patriot League done in the last 2 years against the MVFC in the playoffs?

Don't have the data handy, so I thought that you might help

thanks

[Twentysix]

Curious, how has the Patriot League done in the last 2 years against the MVFC in the playoffs?

Don't have the data handy, so I thought that you might help

thanks

I believe one of the years they beat UNI(7-5 that year) who is a hapless playoff team, and in the next year lehigh was shutout by NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

D) our OOC could be 3 home games against Lehigh Colgate and Fordham to start the year and its still 3 cupcakes.

We have the league strength to eat cupcakes, your league members are the cupcakes.

http://cutestuff.co/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cute-cat-laughing.jpg

[World]

I believe one of the years they beat UNI(7-5 that year) who is a hapless playoff team, and in the next year lehigh was shutout by NDSU.

Oh, ok, thanks

So the Patriot League is 1-1 against the MVFC in the playoffs during the last two years.

[Professor Chaos]

I believe one of the years they beat UNI(7-5 that year) who is a hapless playoff team, and in the next year lehigh was shutout by NDSU.
No, you've got it wrong. Over the last two years of PL/MVFC playoff matchups the PL has won one game, the MVFC has won none, and Jim O'Day has won one.

[Bison06]

Oh, ok, thanks

So the Patriot League is 1-1 against the MVFC in the playoffs during the last two years.

What conclusions could you possibly draw from 2 games?

[Bison06]

NDSU SOS #13
Lehigh SOS #82

I think we can say whatever we want.


My point exactly.


Darell, your argument simply does not hold water. For the sake the very small amount of credibility you have left quit trying to make this argument.

Also, mark my words Darell. UND will be following NDSU's lead in OOC scheduling within 5 years. FBS game and 2 home games vs. subpar opponents some years and FBS game with one subpar opponent and a home and home within a decent FCS team other years.

So, you'll be eating those criticisms in a few years.

[Twentysix]

Darell, your argument simply does not hold water. For the sake the very small amount of credibility you have left quit trying to make this argument.

Also, mark my words Darell. UND will be following NDSU's lead in OOC scheduling within 5 years. FBS game and 2 home games vs. subpar opponents some years and FBS game with one subpar opponent and a home and home within a decent FCS team other years.

So, you'll be eating those criticisms in a few years.

Most likely this guy is right, darell. Unless football attendance goes in the ****ter again.

[World]

What conclusions could you possibly draw from 2 games?

Wow, do you really want to say this when there are only 11-14 games per team in a whole year for football?

[World]

How competitive has the Patriot League been in the FCS playoffs last 2 years?

Patriot League v. MVFC 1-1
Patriot League v. CAA 1-1

[darell1976]

Darell, your argument simply does not hold water. For the sake the very small amount of credibility you have left quit trying to make this argument.

Also, mark my words Darell. UND will be following NDSU's lead in OOC scheduling within 5 years. FBS game and 2 home games vs. subpar opponents some years and FBS game with one subpar opponent and a home and home within a decent FCS team other years.
So, you'll be eating those criticisms in a few years.

2013- vs Valpo, vs South Dakota State vs Montana
2014- at San Jose St, vs Robert Morris, 1 OOC TBA
2015- at Wyoming, 2 OOC TBA
2016- at Bowling Green, 2 OOC TBA

I guess if you play the weak FBS teams and the weakest FCS teams that would put you in great shape in the polls. Of course it boosts attendance, and confidence which makes for a good season, however it can backfire on you too.

[Bison06]

Wow, do you really want to say this when there are only 11-14 games per team in a whole year for football?


How competitive has the Patriot League been in the FCS playoffs last 2 years?

Patriot League v. MVFC 1-1
Patriot League v. CAA 1-1



Well, first let me ask you what conclusion you are trying to draw from the data. That the patriot league and the MVFC are similar caliber football conferences, is that what you are trying to tell me?

For the record, both those games against the MVFC are Lehigh games. If you want to make the argument that Lehigh is traditionally a team that can compete, I'll listen to that, because the facts back that up.

But don't for a second try to convince anyone with half a brain on this board that the PL and MVFC should even be mentioned in the same sentence.

[Bison06]

2013- vs Valpo, vs South Dakota State vs Montana
2014- at San Jose St, vs Robert Morris, 1 OOC TBA
2015- at Wyoming, 2 OOC TBA
2016- at Bowling Green, 2 OOC TBA

I guess if you play the weak FBS teams and the weakest FCS teams that would put you in great shape in the polls. Of course it boosts attendance, and confidence which makes for a good season, however it can backfire on you too.



Darell, I have had this conversation with you many times, once and for all answer this question please. Which FBS teams does UND schedule that makes you think they are somehow better than the FBS teams that NDSU schedules? I can't for the life of me comprehend why you think these teams are a higher caliber than the teams we schedule.

So in 2013, you have no FBS game. In 2014 your schedule is shaping up to be exactly what you are ridiculing NDSU for doing and 2015 and 2016 are tough to predict at this point.

What am I missing?

[Gordon Shumway]

I think Lehigh is getting a bad rap for scheduling. Sure, it turned out this year that the schedule doesn't look so good, but I don't see any evidence of them historically dodging good teams. They are hamstrung like everyone by conference games, and the Ivy connections by being in the PL should not be held against them. Sure, we have a hard time getting a read on the Ivies, but they are far from being a bad conference, and every league should be thankful they don't care about winning the FCS championship.

With the few games they have left for OOC they have never dodged CAA games that I know of. In the prior 4 years they played Villanova & UNH twice each. When Dartmouth backed out of (postponed) the UNH contract, Lehigh and Holy Cross jumped in to fill those 4 years, and I'm sure very willingly. Every team has years that look bad on the schedule that very likely had nothing to do with dodging teams.

[FargoBison]

I don't think Lehigh has dodged anyone, their schedule just is what it is this year. Unfortunately they picked a bad year to put together this kind of schedule with so many potential 8-3 teams out there.

[JMUNJ08]

I just want to thank NDSU and UND fans for hijacking the thread again. It gets awfully tiring reading through 160 posts, but once I realize you guys respond to one another to just skip to the end and hope you guys are done...

Now, if you have something constructive about the other 115+ teams in the FCS, please, I would love to hear it and I'm sure the area outside your bubble isn't all that bad...

[LehighU11]

My poll. I've watched most of the CAA teams this year (except Richmond) and they all appear fairly evenly matched. No reason for me to separate them much relative to others in top 25. Stony Brook played a pretty good Liberty team at a very tough stadium, so I didn't penalize them tremendously for that loss. Don't get me started on Lehigh. Will not be outraged if they are left out after watching this weekend's 10th straight no-show.

1: North Dakota State Bison
2: Old Dominion Monarchs
3: Eastern Washington Eagles
4: Montana State Bobcats
5: New Hampshire Wildcats
6: Sam Houston State Bearkats
7: Georgia Southern Eagles
8: Illinois State Redbirds
9: Central Arkansas Bears
10: Indiana State Sycamores
11: Appalachian State Mountaineers
12: Stony Brook Seawolves
13: Richmond Spiders
14: Towson Tigers
15: Villanova Wildcats
16: James Madison Dukes
17: Wofford Terriers
18: South Dakota State Jackrabbits
19: Cal Poly Mustangs
20: Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
21: Colgate Raiders
22: Eastern Illinois Panthers
23: Eastern Kentucky Colonels
24: Lehigh Mountain Hawks
25: Liberty Flames

[darell1976]

I just want to thank NDSU and UND fans for hijacking the thread again. It gets awfully tiring reading through 160 posts, but once I realize you guys respond to one another to just skip to the end and hope you guys are done...

Now, if you have something constructive about the other 115+ teams in the FCS, please, I would love to hear it and I'm sure the area outside your bubble isn't all that bad...

Good luck against ODU!xthumbsupx

[RabidRabbit]

But is Sam actually one of the strongest 5 teams? That's the debate. Sam's ranked high based off of last season.

The question is, who have they beat? Outside of the SLC teams, which they ran through (save for UCA) the only other win is UIW, which doesn't count in terms of total victories. Sam honestly needs to pull the upset at Kyle Field Saturday to cement a seed. That's probalby not going to happen because the rumor is Fritz is going to sit the starters after one half.

So what does the committee look at? A 7-3 (because the UIW game doesn't count) Sam team who's best win will be against McNeese (especially if SFA loses on Saturday which, God knows, at this rate it's probably going to happen) or a team like Stony Brook, who may not have won their conference (if Liberty can spoil it) but did beat a FBS opponent this year, or some of the Big Sky 3 and 4 teams...or even the MVFC 3 and 4 teams who are just sitting on the edge of coming in.

There will be more 8 win teams looking at an at-large bid than slots available. Usually that's not the case.

Yes we all know you and UCA played the same schedule for conference, the difference is, they beat you. The SLC is usually a one bid conference for a reason......

I still think Sam pulls a 4 or 5 seed though but it's not a given at this point.

I agree with this thought process. Viewed strictly on THIS SEASON'S PERFORMANCE, a 7-3 record, with best win being McNeese appears to be competing with Cal Poly, NAU or InST. Plus, is 7-3 better than a 10-1 Lehigh, or a 9-2 Stony Brook for At-large. I'd be surprised if 7-3 Sam Houston is a seed, and not the AQ.

[GreatAppSt]

All pollls, EXCEPT AGS, matter. AGS has a large percentage of homers and/or ignorant trash talkers.

Not a legitimate poll. Coaches poll = all homers, TSN full of School SIDs and beat hacks = homers. So whats the point?

[DSUrocks07]

Coaches poll = all homers, TSN full of School SIDs and beat hacks = homers. So whats the point?

So Sam Houston fans think that ballots that don't have them automatically in the Top 5 "don't matter" and Lehigh fans think that polls that don't have them in the Top 20 "don't matter". I love this time of year! ;)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

So Sam Houston fans think that ballots that don't have them automatically in the Top 5 "don't matter" and Lehigh fans think that polls that don't have them in the Top 20 "don't matter". I love this time of year! ;)

I know, right? When do Delaware State fans complain? Never.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Engineer86]

D) our OOC could be 3 home games against Lehigh Colgate and Fordham to start the year and its still 3 cupcakes. Whatever messageboard credibility Lehigh was begining to earn for their league is being squandered by idiots making comparisons between the PL and the MVFC. Your league is the cupcake bakery.

We have the league strength to eat cupcakes, your league members are the cupcakes.

Credibility from idiots is not something we worry about, most clowns on here just like to take shots at the other guy. I think you can read ... That most Lehigh and PL posters think Lehigh has no chance with two losses and is on the fence at one loss. In the last two years Lehigh has taken advantage of the AQ and beaten the MVFC and CAA champs, yet even before the Colgate loss no credibility purely due to SOS I really do hope Colgate gets a MFVC team, so we can see again how the PL champ can't beat an MVFC piece of ****. That is in the playoffs.

Really credibility from most posters/homers (NDSU by far leading the homer fest) is not a worry.

[Engineer86]

How competitive has the Patriot League been in the FCS playoffs last 2 years?

Patriot League v. MVFC 1-1
Patriot League v. CAA 1-1

This CAN'T be right!!!

[Engineer86]

I know, right? When do Delaware State fans complain? Never.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

What? Most Lehigh fans do not have Lehigh in the top 20.

[DSUrocks07]

I know, right? When do(es) Delaware State('s) fan complain? Never.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

fify xsalutex

[stevdock]

I just want to thank NDSU and UND fans for hijacking the thread again. It gets awfully tiring reading through 160 posts, but once I realize you guys respond to one another to just skip to the end and hope you guys are done...

Now, if you have something constructive about the other 115+ teams in the FCS, please, I would love to hear it and I'm sure the area outside your bubble isn't all that bad...

It is absolutely pathetic all this UND NDSU crap. At least you were smart enough to skip to the end. I read every last piece of garbage that was spewed throughout this thread.

With how many top teams can move the ball up and down the field so quickly, I'm very interested if this offensive attack will continue throughout the playoffs or if defense will win out.

[Walkon79]

I just want to thank NDSU and UND fans for hijacking the thread again. It gets awfully tiring reading through 160 posts, but once I realize you guys respond to one another to just skip to the end and hope you guys are done...

Now, if you have something constructive about the other 115+ teams in the FCS, please, I would love to hear it and I'm sure the area outside your bubble isn't all that bad...

THIS!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FargoBison]

If some Bison fans and a certain Sioux fan could have some self control this wouldn't be an issue but they just can't help themselves.

[LUHawker]

That may be so, but NDSU played a conference schedule that would have left any PL team winless.

Statements like that prove why you are an idiot. If you graduated from NDSU, the school should be ashamed.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Statements like that prove why you are an idiot. If you graduated from NDSU, the school should be ashamed.

How so? Who would Colgate have beaten if they couldn't beat USD?

[LUHawker]

How so? Who would Colgate have beaten if they couldn't beat USD?

The fact that you are asking this question, puts you marginally close to your northern neighbor.

[DSUrocks07]

How so? Who would Colgate have beaten if they couldn't beat USD?

The Saints lost to Kansas City at home earlier this year, worst team in the league. They have no shot against the Falcons. Oh wait...

[FargoBison]

I don't think any PL team goes .500 in the MVFC this year. They could beat some of the better teams in one game scenarios but the grind would take its toll. Depth! Depth! Depth!

Right now I'm just happy that NDSU is going to finally get a bye, the injuries are starting to pile up.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

The Saints lost to Kansas City at home earlier this year, worst team in the league. They have no shot against the Falcons. Oh wait...

Sorry Smurf, but the level of parity in the NFL is a little different than the FCS. Teams like the Chiefs can go on the road and win at New Orleans far more often than teams like Drake are going to go on the road and beat NDSU.

I realize Lehigh or Colgate could've probably won a game or two in the Valley, but that would've been about it. They would not have beat NDSU, SDSU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Youngstown State, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa. Maybe would've had a chance against WIU, Missouri State or USD this year - oh wait, Colgate did have a chance against USD and we saw what happened...

Sad a team like that can steal a playoff spot from a team that is far more capable of making a deep run in the postseason. If Lehigh gets an at-large because of their records against schools of the deaf and blind and SDSU is left out, it will be a crying shame. Literally. I will probably start crying... haha

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sorry Smurf, but the level of parity in the NFL is a little different than the FCS. Teams like the Chiefs can go on the road and win at New Orleans far more often than teams like Drake are going to go on the road and beat NDSU.

I realize Lehigh or Colgate could've probably won a game or two in the Valley, but that would've been about it. They would not have beat NDSU, SDSU, Illinois State, Indiana State, Youngstown State, Southern Illinois, Northern Iowa. Maybe would've had a chance against WIU, Missouri State or USD this year - oh wait, Colgate did have a chance against USD and we saw what happened...

Sad a team like that can steal a playoff spot from a team that is far more capable of making a deep run in the postseason. If Lehigh gets an at-large because of their records against schools of the deaf and blind and SDSU is left out, it will be a crying shame. Literally. I will probably start crying... haha

They didn't play Gallaudet this year.

[LehighU11]

I don't think any PL team goes .500 in the MVFC this year. They could beat some of the better teams in one game scenarios but the grind would take its toll. Depth! Depth! Depth!

I agree with you on that. This has been a down year for the PL, with all 7 teams being at about the same talent level. Some have just had more of a will to win due to experience. I think that Colgate on a good day and Lehigh playing a full 60 minutes (which we still have yet to see this year on both sides of the ball) would be capable of knocking off just about anyone in the MVFC in a one game scenario, save for a healthy NDSU.

Moving forward, it will be interesting to see how scholarships impact the PL. We will likely see better athletes (though they still have to meet PL academic standards), as well as improved scheduling with scholarship conferences and perhaps some Big East/Navy/Army games. Place a program like Lehigh, Colgate, or Holy Cross in the MVFC with scholarships, top-level FCS competition, and the ability to sell the idea of playing against some of the best FCS teams to recruits, and I think it is reasonable to say you would see them contending for league titles frequently.

[ngineer]

Very reasonable poll.

[Twentysix]

Statements like that prove why you are an idiot. If you graduated from NDSU, the school should be ashamed.

The only comparative evidence we have suggests I am correct. PL vs MVFC matchup, Colgate vs USD. USD wins, USD fails to win a single conference game.

Get your panties in a bunch all you want, the PL sucks this year.

[JMUNJ08]

Ok so we moved on to only Lehigh now.... wonderful! I'll check out some other threads now

[TheRevSFA]

The polls matter.

Not according to the chair of the committee. This is from a live chat (and was quoted in another thread)


Jonathan (Charlotte): Could you tell us what factors into determining a seed and what does not factor?
John McCutcheon: That is a great question. The criteria we use to evaluate which teams get the top seeds are the same as those used to determine which teams get an at-large bid. Those are overall won-loss record, strength of schedule and quality of wins. External polls and computer rankings are not factored into our decisions. We also consider the input received by the regional advisory committees.

[walliver]

The polls themselves don't matter, but it is not a coincidence that last year's at-large teams correlated fairly well with the final regular season AGS poll, with the exception of Eastern Kentucky.

This suggests that the committee's internal polling is based on similar criteria to the AGS poll, and also suggests that the committee's evaluation of potential at-large teams will correlate with the AGS poll. The committee, however, does have political issues which sometimes leads to unexpected results.

[Sam_Kats]

Ok, Rev. And people also say they're not in it for the money & we're also not supposed to speed on the highways.

They matter.

[WileECoyote06]

Sad a team like that can steal a playoff spot from a team that is far more capable of making a deep run in the postseason. If Lehigh gets an at-large because of their records against schools of the deaf and blind and SDSU is left out, it will be a crying shame. Literally. I will probably start crying... haha

More often than not most of those teams on the bubble do not make a deep run in the postseason. They'll win one game at most and then be stopped by one of the four or five usually seeded teams that is good enough to win the championship. With that in mind, what is really the difference between the at-large from a non-power conference and that bubble team from a stronger conference?

[WileECoyote06]

The polls themselves don't matter, but it is not a coincidence that last year's at-large teams correlated fairly well with the final regular season AGS poll, with the exception of Eastern Kentucky.

This suggests that the committee's internal polling is based on similar criteria to the AGS poll, and also suggests that the committee's evaluation of potential at-large teams will correlate with the AGS poll. The committee, however, does have political issues which sometimes leads to unexpected results.

Gonna take more than a year to make that assumption. We can look at trends going back four or five years and then make a determination.

[ITmonarch10]

The polls themselves don't matter, but it is not a coincidence that last year's at-large teams correlated fairly well with the final regular season AGS poll, with the exception of Eastern Kentucky.

This suggests that the committee's internal polling is based on similar criteria to the AGS poll, and also suggests that the committee's evaluation of potential at-large teams will correlate with the AGS poll. The committee, however, does have political issues which sometimes leads to unexpected results.
Maybe the committee are secretly AGS users.xsmiley_wix

[walliver]

Gonna take more than a year to make that assumption. We can look at trends going back four or five years and then make a determination.

Unfortunately, I am too lazy to do all of that. :)

My primary point is that people assessing the same data with similar metrics will get similar results.

There are obviously other factors at work, EKU was not ranked in the final regular season AGS poll.

There is also a strong likelihood that AGS voters were influenced by AGS-concensus potential brackets.

[WileECoyote06]

One of these days I'm going to stop being lazy and create an FCS ranking based on the philosophy of the D2 playoffs selection. I strongly suspect that our selection process is very similar to theirs.

[MTfan4life]

One of these days I'm going to stop being lazy and create an FCS ranking based on the philosophy of the D2 playoffs selection. I strongly suspect that our selection process is very similar to theirs.

D2 has four regions and they pick the top six teams from each region. It's basically just picking the top two teams from each conference. I don't think that's quite like how the FCS is chosen. I think they over regionalize their format. For example Sioux Falls is 8-2 out of arguably one of the two toughest conferences in the country and they didn't get in mainly because there's too many tough teams from their region.

[Twentysix]

More often than not most of those teams on the bubble do not make a deep run in the postseason. They'll win one game at most and then be stopped by one of the four or five usually seeded teams that is good enough to win the championship. With that in mind, what is really the difference between the at-large from a non-power conference and that bubble team from a stronger conference?

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=303380147 Bubble team beats 4 seed

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=303452747

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=303382729 Bubble team beats 2 seed

I didn't even have to go back very far (2010) to find the differences. ;)

[FargoBison]

The DII system is an absolute joke and is nothing like the FCS. DII is purely regionalized, while the FCS tries to pick the best teams for the at-large spots and then regionalizes things a bit.

[WileECoyote06]

More often than not was used for a reason. . .let's examine:

2004 - no seeds in the championship; #3 seed in the semifinals James Madison wins
2005 - #4 and #2 in the semifinals; #2 won championship App State wins
2006 - #1 vs #4; #2 vs #3 in the semifinals # Championship features #1 vs #3; #1 wins App State wins
2007 - #4 in the semifinals; unseeded championship App State wins
2008 - #1 vs #4; unseeded vs #3 in the semifinals; unseeded Richmond wins
2009 - #1 vs unseeded; #2 vs unseeded in the semifinals; #1 vs #2 in championship #2 wins
2010 - #5 vs unseeded; #3 vs unseeded in the semifinals; #5 vs #3 for championship #3 wins
2011 - #1 vs #4; #2 vs #3 in the semifinals; #1 vs #2 for championship #2 wins

In 24 championship and semifinal games, only two games did not feature a seeded team; or over 90% of the games. Also recall that I said bubble teams. 2010, with introduction of expanded playoffs can be viewed as an outlier. Every other year has featured teams with at least 9 regular season wins; except 2005 UNI (who tied for the Gateway Championship), and 2007 Delaware. Overall out of sixteen semifinal participants, only four had fewer than nine wins, meaning 75% of them were not what anybody would describe as a 'bubble' team.

I stand by my statement.

[WileECoyote06]

D2 has four regions and they pick the top six teams from each region. It's basically just picking the top two teams from each conference. I don't think that's quite like how the FCS is chosen. I think they over regionalize their format. For example Sioux Falls is 8-2 out of arguably one of the two toughest conferences in the country and they didn't get in mainly because there's too many tough teams from their region.

We just came from D2, so I'm intimately familiar with their process. But I wasn't referring to the regionalization aspect of it, I'm referring to the scoring rubric for evaluating teams. Put simply, the D2 regional rankings are created by adding won-lost % + SOS + Opponents SOS + Opponents-Opponents SOS and then lining them up. They have additional criteria for evaluating teams that have head-2-head wins/losses and some other criteria as well. I've correctly predicted several regional rankings for years. While evaluating at-large teams, this can give them a starting point from which to discuss and debate. *shrug*