Lehigh

[UNH Fanboi]

If Lehigh gets to 11-0, do they deserve a seed? Discuss.

Note that this is a public poll.

[kalm]

No

[dudeitsaid]

No

he, he, he...end of discussion!xrotatehx

[Go...gate]

Yes, absolutely.

[LEHIGH07]

If a team goes 11-0 (winning their last 20 regular season gms) i would think they get a seed.....especially b/c there are no other undefeated teams. If there were a couple undefeateds then they obvioulsy trump LU but w/out the others i think you gotta give it to them.

[kalm]

10-1 ODU
10-1 MSU
10-1 NDSU
9-2 Illinois State
9-2 SDSU
9-2 JMU
9-2 UNH
9-2 Central Arkansas
9-2 NAU
9-2 Cal Poly
9-2 EWU

Would all deserve seeds over them.

[Hawk98]

11-0 deserves a seed, especially with playoff wins the last two seasons.

But 11-0 deserves a seed no matter who it is and from which conference.

[kalm]

11-0 deserves a seed, especially with playoff wins the last two seasons.

But 11-0 deserves a seed no matter who it is and from which conference.

The 5 best football teams deserve a seed.

[mmiller_34]

Monmouth
Central Connecticut State
Princeton
Liberty
Fordham
Columbia
Georgetown
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Colgate
Lafayette

That is all.

[Lehigh'98]

It depends on others. I would put 1 loss NDSU, Mont st, ODU, EWU, SBU ahead. 2 loss UNH, NDSU, ODU ahead. On fence about GSU. If 5 of those fail to materialize, sure. Last time we hosted we beat Hofstra I believe, so it wouldn't be a huge stretch.

[kalm]

Monmouth
Central Connecticut State
Princeton
Liberty
Fordham
Columbia
Georgetown
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Colgate
Lafayette

That is all.

Thank you.

[CHIP72]

Would I like to see it happen? Yes

Do I think they'd deserve it, based on who they've played and how they played them? No

In all seriousness, Lehigh probably would have been more deserving of a seed last season when (IMO) they had a distinctly better team but failed to go undefeated in the regular season because they lost to another playoff qualifier (New Hampshire) in overtime. (I do think an argument could be made that Lehigh should have hosted a round of 16 game last season, though I'm personally glad they didn't because it allowed me to see the really excellent Towson playoff game in person.)

[Hawk98]

The 5 best football teams deserve a seed.

I disagree. The seeds should be about earning things on the football field. I would only give them to conference champions, actually.

[citdog]

11-0 deserves a seed, especially with playoff wins the last two seasons.

But 11-0 deserves a seed no matter who it is and from which conference.

not from a league only slightly better than the pioneer. So in your view if the pioneer league champ is 11-0 next year they should be seeded? What color is the sun in your world?

[Hawk98]

not from a league only slightly better than the pioneer. So in your view if the pioneer league champ is 11-0 next year they should be seeded? What color is the sun in your world?

Yes ... 11-0 is 11-0.

[RichH2]

Well, I would love to get a seed but really our SOS is not good enuf to warrant one. On top of that all our games have been cardiac specials.

[kalm]

I disagree. The seeds should be about earning things on the football field. I would only give them to conference champions, actually.

A 9-2 Illinois state has earned more on the football field than an 11-0 PL champion with a weak OOC schedule.

[ngineer]

Any team in any league that can run the table undefeated has earned the respect of a seed. Every team faces adversity in the long three months and the good ones find a way to overcome most of the obstacles, injuries, bad breaks, weather, etc. The best ones find a way to win, that week, that game. Just win. Find a way whether it's pretty or not. Just win. Everyone (minus the handful of Lehigh fans on this Board) likes to look down on the schedule, but playing the comparative score game is a slippery slope because there are anomolies and aberrations throughout. I fully believe Lehigh is more than capable of beating all of the 9-2 teams listed above, and while I would acknowledge us being underdogs to NDSU and ODU, I would place us right in the mix for a seed at 3-5.

[Hawk98]

A 9-2 Illinois state has earned more on the football field than an 11-0 PL champion with a weak OOC schedule.

They lost. I'm not saying that 10-1 PL should ever get a seed. But 11-0 from an automatic qualifier conference should be seeded.

Hell, I could even argue at-larges are dumb at all. If you don't win your conference, how can you be the best team in the country?

[Gil Dobie]

It depends on how everyone else finishes, an 11-0 Lehigh has a chance at a seed.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

There is no more polarizing team in FCS over the last 15 years than Lehigh. I find it fascinating that it has carried on this long. You either "get it" or you don't with Lehigh. In general I think the majority of CAA fans have respect for the hawks and the PL. Some folks are simply blinded by cluelessness.

[kalm]

Any team in any league that can run the table undefeated has earned the respect of a seed. Every team faces adversity in the long three months and the good ones find a way to overcome most of the obstacles, injuries, bad breaks, weather, etc. The best ones find a way to win, that week, that game. Just win. Find a way whether it's pretty or not. Just win. Everyone (minus the handful of Lehigh fans on this Board) likes to look down on the schedule, but playing the comparative score game is a slippery slope because there are anomolies and aberrations throughout. I fully believe Lehigh is more than capable of beating all of the 9-2 teams listed above, and while I would acknowledge us being underdogs to NDSU and ODU, I would place us right in the mix for a seed at 3-5.

Some teams face more adversity than others.

[LehighU11]

If Lehigh gets to 11-0, do they deserve a seed? Discuss.

Note that this is a public poll.

Don't you UNH people have anything better to do than to complain about and bash Lehigh in every post? You have a very talented team, which I have consistently ranked far ahead of Lehigh all season long. I fully agree that Lehigh is not a top 10 team and is maybe a borderline top 15 one, but it does get rather old listening to every single post of yours contain some form of outrage that Lehigh might somehow eek out a seed. In that case, it will likely be the 5 seed and only get them 1 home game--something that an 11-0 team with our playoff resume the past two years deserves.

[Remise]

Let me simplify this discussion. Though not many people on this board have been paying much attention to Colgate, despite a nonexistent defense, the Raiders have an offense that gets better every week -- their average of 53.4 points over the past five weeks, regardless of who they played, speaks for itself. How many other teams have done that? And but for a stupid penalty last Saturday that recalled a late-game TD, they would have scored 72 points against Lafayette, a decent, if not great, 5-3 team before the game.

Lehigh is not going to be 11-0.

[citdog]

There is no more polarizing team in FCS over the last 15 years than Lehigh. I find it fascinating that it has carried on this long. You either "get it" or you don't with Lehigh. In general I think the majority of CAA fans have respect for the hawks and the PL. Some folks are simply blinded by cluelessness.

actually we are blinded by the 237th toughest schedule. Your league is TERRIBLE and it is not worthy of being an aq.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Some teams face more adversity than others.

Like unranked Southern Utah?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

actually we are blinded by the 237th toughest schedule. Your league is TERRIBLE and it is not worthy of being an aq.

Do you honestly believe the PL does not deserve an auto bid?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

actually we are blinded by the 237th toughest schedule. Your league is TERRIBLE and it is not worthy of being an aq.

This.

Seriously, if you think the Patriot deserves on, why doesn't the Pioneer have an autobid? What's the difference?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Like unranked Southern Utah?

Or a hurricane....

[kardplayer]

Has any undefeated AQ ever not gotten a seed? I don't think so. If not, it's a virtual lock Lehigh gets one too.

Feels like every year we have the argument about the quality of the Patriot League champion. I would think we have enough skins on our wall by now that folks should know that the PL champion is usually one of the better teams in the country.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

This.

Seriously, if you think the Patriot deserves on, why doesn't the Pioneer have an autobid? What's the difference?

Good grief...

We've reached another level of stupidity.

[kalm]

Like unranked Southern Utah?

Exactly!

[heath]

The 5 best football teams deserve a seed.

Never happens that way. Too political. Records and region will determine seeds.

[EKU Toss Sweep]

At 11-0 from an AQ conference, I believe Lehigh gets a 5 seed. Unfortunately, I also think the "magic" runs out and Lehigh finishes at 10 -1 without a seed.

[mmiller_34]

Don't you UNH people have anything better to do than to complain about and bash Lehigh in every post? You have a very talented team, which I have consistently ranked far ahead of Lehigh all season long. I fully agree that Lehigh is not a top 10 team and is maybe a borderline top 15 one, but it does get rather old listening to every single post of yours contain some form of outrage that Lehigh might somehow eek out a seed. In that case, it will likely be the 5 seed and only get them 1 home game--something that an 11-0 team with our playoff resume the past two years deserves.

I think its important to talk about. Lehigh will likely be the ONLY undefeated team this year--You're right. Thats a great accomplishment no matter the level of competition. However, the truth still exists that the Patriot League is no SoCon, MVFC, CAA, Big Sky, or even Southland. On the other hand, because they're undefeated, I wouldn't be surprised to see Lehigh snag the #5 seed and I think many others feel the same. That is why people are asking the question: Does Lehigh deserve it? I say no because my team, SDSU, could be 11-0 against that competition as well and I'm certain that my team doesn't deserve a seed. I've seen them play against the highest level of FCS competition and I know they're not top 5.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At 11-0 from an AQ conference, I believe Lehigh gets a 5 seed. Unfortunately, I also think the "magic" runs out and Lehigh finishes at 10 -1 without a seed.

Hope you're wrong, but I agree. 11-0 a real good shot at a seed. 10-1, in the field, on the road, maybe even in Round 1.

[skinny_uncle]

They lost. I'm not saying that 10-1 PL should ever get a seed. But 11-0 from an automatic qualifier conference should be seeded.

Hell, I could even argue at-larges are dumb at all. If you don't win your conference, how can you be the best team in the country?
By winning the playoffs. WKU was an at-large in 2002, but won the National Championship. I'm sure there are other examples.

[citdog]

Do you honestly believe the PL does not deserve an auto bid?

give 63 or stay home. You FCS in name only hurt the rest of us who play someone on EVERY GIVEN SATURDAY

[heath]

Is it PL haters or just Lehigh haters? Give credit where credit is due. Lehigh has done the most with alot less the past few years.........Just ask NIU and Towson. With schollies watch out in say 2-3 years.xnodx

[ngineer]

actually we are blinded by the 237th toughest schedule. Your league is TERRIBLE and it is not worthy of being an aq.

Ask your coach about how competitive the PL is. When he was our HC he took us to 'the next level' knocking off the CAA and MVC champs, and barely losing to the NCAA champs. That followed with Lembo and now with Coen. Lehigh's program has been competive, nationally, for 15 years. (Yes, we had 3 down years from '07-'09, but I'm talking program). Colgate has also knocked off teams from the so-called 'power conferences' getting to the finals, once.

[CHIP72]

Any team in any league that can run the table undefeated has earned the respect of a seed. Every team faces adversity in the long three months and the good ones find a way to overcome most of the obstacles, injuries, bad breaks, weather, etc. The best ones find a way to win, that week, that game. Just win. Find a way whether it's pretty or not. Just win. Everyone (minus the handful of Lehigh fans on this Board) likes to look down on the schedule, but playing the comparative score game is a slippery slope because there are anomolies and aberrations throughout. I fully believe Lehigh is more than capable of beating all of the 9-2 teams listed above, and while I would acknowledge us being underdogs to NDSU and ODU, I would place us right in the mix for a seed at 3-5.

I think Lehigh could beat most of the 9-2 teams listed up thread too. But it's one thing to have one or two close calls against so-so teams and another to have close calls against such teams just about every week. In every sport, it's generally true that really good teams dominate their opponents, especially their weaker opponents, on a regular basis, or at least have dominant points scored/points allowed totals.

I realize many people on here may not follow Division II football, but let me use a current example from that level. IUP, which coming into this past Saturday was ranked 6th in its super-region (i.e. it was in the last playoff spot in its region) edged out a poor Gannon team by 3 points on Saturday. IUP had a very strong season prior to that game, losing only one game by 2 points on the road to a good team (Cal PA) and winning solidly against their other opponents, both good and not as good. Some people are saying that IUP should be penalized for only beating Gannon by 3 points, but that narrow win isn't consistent with their overall body of work - they've been more impressive than that in general the whole season. One close win over a weak opponent obviously needs to be considered in the mix, but it shouldn't carry too much weight compared to a bunch of solid wins over good opponents and blowout wins over other bad opponents. In contrast with the IUP example, Lehigh has posted a whole bunch of close wins and many of them have been against so-so teams. They haven't played and beaten a very good team (say one of the better teams from the CAA) that would validate what they've done despite the many close calls. Objectively-speaking, one has to think that if Lehigh had played stronger opponents, they would have lost a game or two, just based on the fact they've had close calls against so-so (and 1-2 cases, fairly weak) competition. That isn't to say there isn't merit to showing you can win close games, there definitely is, but in general the top teams in every sport, especially football, beat up on the weaker teams they play most of the time. The fact Lehigh has not crushed the weaker teams on their schedule on a regular basis objectively does make their record a little suspect. I don't like saying that but it is what it is.

Thank goodness Division I-AA/FCS has a playoff system and Lehigh will likely have an opportunity to show what they do against a better team or teams on the field in the playoffs. They won't have to face a situation like Penn State sometimes did back in its eastern independent days (or for that matter many of the other ex-eastern independents also faced back in those days) of going undefeated or having an excellent season against what was nationally perceived as a weak schedule and then not get an opportunity to play for a national title because of the system or because the President made a declaration or because the media felt sorry for the coach of another team.

[paward]

SOS has it's merit as does being undefeated. I think they should get a seed.

[LEHIGH07]

Is it PL haters or just Lehigh haters? Give credit where credit is due. Lehigh has done the most with alot less the past few years.........Just ask NIU and Towson. With schollies watch out in say 2-3 years.xnodx

Couldnt agree more! Every year its the same hate.....going down to the CAA champs place last year in the playoffs and snagging the W, you'd think some respect would be given to LU. Nope, i guess haters gonna hate.

[CHIP72]

This.

Seriously, if you think the Patriot deserves on, why doesn't the Pioneer have an autobid? What's the difference?

Uh, that the Patriot League actually wins playoff games a fair share of the time in the Division I-AA/FCS playoffs?

I personally think the Patriot League is down this year, but that doesn't mean the Patriot League is down every year.

[89rabbit]

Let me simplify this discussion. Though not many people on this board have been paying much attention to Colgate, despite a nonexistent defense, the Raiders have an offense that gets better every week -- their average of 53.4 points over the past five weeks, regardless of who they played, speaks for itself. How many other teams have done that? And but for a stupid penalty last Saturday that recalled a late-game TD, they would have scored 72 points against Lafayette, a decent, if not great, 5-3 team before the game.

Lehigh is not going to be 11-0.

If Colgate beats Lehigh it will only make my no vote more relevant. The University of South Dakota, the last place team in the MVFC, has one win so far this year . . . against Colgate.

[Mr. C]

The committee pretty much made its stand on this issue last season with Sam Houston State getting a No. 1 seed at 11-0, playing a very weak schedule, and also by giving Colgate a seed in 2003. Both of those teams were undefeated. Whether we agree with it, or not, the committee almost has to give Lehigh a seed with an 11-0 record.

[ngineer]

I think Lehigh could beat most of the 9-2 teams listed up thread too. But it's one thing to have one or two close calls against so-so teams and another to have close calls against such teams just about every week. In every sport, it's generally true that really good teams dominate their opponents, especially their weaker opponents, on a regular basis, or at least have dominant points scored/points allowed totals.

I realize many people on here may not follow Division II football, but let me use a current example from that level. IUP, which coming into this past Saturday was ranked 6th in its super-region (i.e. it was in the last playoff spot in its region) edged out a poor Gannon team by 3 points on Saturday. IUP had a very strong season prior to that game, losing only one game by 2 points on the road to a good team (Cal PA) and winning solidly against their other opponents, both good and not as good. Some people are saying that IUP should be penalized for only beating Gannon by 3 points, but that narrow win isn't consistent with their overall body of work - they've been more impressive than that in general the whole season. One close win over a weak opponent obviously needs to be considered in the mix, but it shouldn't carry too much weight compared to a bunch of solid wins over good opponents and blowout wins over other bad opponents. In contrast with the IUP example, Lehigh has posted a whole bunch of close wins and many of them have been against so-so teams. They haven't played and beaten a very good team (say one of the better teams from the CAA) that would validate what they've done despite the many close calls. Objectively-speaking, one has to think that if Lehigh had played stronger opponents, they would have lost a game or two, just based on the fact they've had close calls against so-so (and 1-2 cases, fairly weak) competition. That isn't to say there isn't merit to showing you can win close games, there definitely is, but in general the top teams in every sport, especially football, beat up on the weaker teams they play most of the time. The fact Lehigh has not crushed the weaker teams on their schedule on a regular basis objectively does make their record a little suspect. I don't like saying that but it is what it is.

Thank goodness Division I-AA/FCS has a playoff system and Lehigh will likely have an opportunity to show what they do against a better team or teams on the field in the playoffs. They won't have to face a situation like Penn State sometimes did back in its eastern independent days (or for that matter many of the other ex-eastern independents also faced back in those days) of going undefeated or having an excellent season against what was nationally perceived as a weak schedule and then not get an opportunity to play for a national title because of the system or because the President made a declaration or because the media felt sorry for the coach of another team.

While I understand the argument you make, it is based upon speculation. Trying to extrapolate how Team A would do versus Team B because one didn't run up a score or 'blow some one out.' Your analogy to Penn State in the late 60's and early 70's is very good. It's all perception and whose ox is getting gored.

[TheRevSFA]

Are the same people saying no the same who said Sam didn't deserve a seed (much less the number 1 seed) after running the table in the "lowly" Southland?

How'd that go?

[RichH2]

For citdog
Gotta say you are ballsy. 63 is your criteria. Well we'll be there soon enuf. Kind of interesting for PL that has lots of equivalencies but 0 free rides does as well as it does. Idiotic to compare us to PFL which really is non scholarsip, the only conference thatis.
Even at 11 wins I dont think we get a seed. But for you to dismiss PL out of hand is rehashing 15 yr old prejudices. Sort of telling as to status of Citadel football that you hired our prior HC.
PL avademic standards too high to build depth that many power conference teams can. But as UNI, Towson can attest we play good football.

[UNH Fanboi]

Don't you UNH people have anything better to do than to complain about and bash Lehigh in every post? You have a very talented team, which I have consistently ranked far ahead of Lehigh all season long. I fully agree that Lehigh is not a top 10 team and is maybe a borderline top 15 one, but it does get rather old listening to every single post of yours contain some form of outrage that Lehigh might somehow eek out a seed. In that case, it will likely be the 5 seed and only get them 1 home game--something that an 11-0 team with our playoff resume the past two years deserves.

I've only made one previous post mentioning Lehigh getting a seed. And I haven't bashed Lehigh in this thread. I merely asked a very legitimate question.

[Mr. C]

I've only made one previous post mentioning Lehigh getting a seed. And I haven't bashed Lehigh in this thread. I merely asked a very legitimate question.

I for one think this is a great topic for a thread.

[World]

Lehigh will go 11-0

Lehigh will get a top 5 seed

[JSUBison]

Couldnt agree more! Every year its the same hate.....going down to the CAA champs place last year in the playoffs and snagging the W, you'd think some respect would be given to LU. Nope, i guess haters gonna hate.

You know, if Lehigh knocks off a team or two from power conferences in the playoffs this year, it won't change their minds. They'll be arguing the same thing next year. xnutsx

[Twentysix]

depends how things play out, in most scenario's no. In a few scenarios maybe the 5 seed.

[Lehigh'98]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Lehigh and Colgate will be rematching in Frisco this year for the national title. Lehigh wil let Colgate win this week to help out the league, grab an at large, go on the road knock off UNH 33-3 in a snow filled game. Dominate ODU holding Heineken beer boy to 25 yds passing, revenge last years loss at the Fargo Dome 51-2, then knock off Colgate 100-99 beginning the decade of Patriot League dominance in the FCS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Lehigh and Colgate will be rematching in Frisco this year for the national title. Lehigh wil let Colgate win this week to help out the league, grab an at large, go on the road knock off UNH 33-3 in a snow filled game. Dominate ODU holding Heineken beer boy to 25 yes passing, revenge last years loss at be Fargo Dome 51-2, then knock off Colgate 100-99 beginning the decade of Patriot League dominance in the FCS.

But in 2013, folks will be still arguing, "Yeah, but they played Monmouth last year!" as a reason to not rank them in their preseason AGS Top 25.

[RichH2]

Fanboi
We do seem to have some hyper posters. This is a great idea. Haven't seen any UNH fans bashing us since the Game. Bashers are now citdog and the westerners.
Anyway thanks for an entertaining thread.

[RichH2]

98
Gotta admire your zeal. From your mouth to God's ear as my granda used to tell me.

[mmiller_34]

Are the same people saying no the same who said Sam didn't deserve a seed (much less the number 1 seed) after running the table in the "lowly" Southland?

How'd that go?

Okay... but the Southland is not the Patriot League...

[Lehigh'98]

Okay... but the Southland is not the Patriot League...

Much further south

[mmiller_34]

If Colgate beats Lehigh it will only make my no vote more relevant. The University of South Dakota, the last place team in the MVFC, has one win so far this year . . . against Colgate.

Not sure why everyone seemed to skip this point.

[LUHawker]

Not sure why everyone seemed to skip this point.

Mostly because it was week 1 and Colgate is a historically slow starter.

[mmiller_34]

Mostly because it was week 1 and Colgate is a historically slow starter.

It was actually week 2 after they got blasted by Albany by 20 points. Edit: Pardon me, 17 points.

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate always starts slow. Its 2003 run to the I-AA title game began with a 20-19 last second win over Georgetown.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Well, I would love to get a seed but really our SOS is not good enuf to warrant one. On top of that all our games have been cardiac specials.

The smearing of the Patriot League is way off, but the smudging of the Mighty Brown's cupcake non-con schedule (maybe the weakest in the league) is on target, as is the commentary on the weekly daring-do that has been required to consume said cupcakes. Seeded, no, but, like last year, a bye into the second round

[Twentysix]

Okay... but the Southland is not the Patriot League...

And sam had an FBS win whilist going undefeated.

[citdog]

Colgate always starts slow. Its 2003 run to the I-AA title game began with a 20-19 last second win over Georgetown.

colgate had a once in a generation team. What they did a decade ago was a great moment.. and that's all it was. if tiny wofford college can win the Southern conference, and if you think their players ride the slow coach you're a fool, you should be able to step it up. i mean you're so well endowed... remember? i think the BEAR JEW would have done pretty well at lehigh.

[frozennorth]

I disagree. The seeds should be about earning things on the football field. I would only give them to conference champions, actually.

lehigh will not have earned it on the football field

[TheRevSFA]

And sam had an FBS win whilist going undefeated.

Against the weakest team in FBS. UNM was awful.

But a lot of you said Sam wasn't worth seeding

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Monmouth
Central Connecticut State
Princeton
Liberty
Fordham
Columbia
Georgetown
Bucknell
Holy Cross
Colgate
Lafayette

That is all.



Yep....enough said.

But, I think Lehigh will grab a #5 seed if they finish 11-0.

[van]

Much further south

and much further west

[kalm]

Hope you're wrong, but I agree. 11-0 a real good shot at a seed. 10-1, in the field, on the road, maybe even in Round 1.

If one loss takes you from a seed to a "play-in" game...that speaks volumes.

And I knew the Colgate from-the-previous-century argument would pop up.

Citdog is right about the shollies and I'm glad that the PL is moving toward fully funding them. That makes the entire subdivision better. Now, throw in some challenging OOC games in the mean-time and the seed-worthiness increases quite a bit.

[NHwildEcat]

If they go 11-0, they should get the #5 seed. Undefeated is undefeated in my book and at the least they should get that final seed and one home game. Then we can all see how worthy of a choice it is come the actual games being played!

[danefan]

The seeds are for the best 5 teams in the playoffs. I don't think Lehigh fits that description even at 11-0.

[Engineer86]

Against the weakest team in FBS. UNM was awful.

But a lot of you said Sam wasn't worth seeding

I was one, and was surprised by the #1, but I agree with Mr C's comments. Live and learn. That is telling of how the committee views DI wins. The FBS win is likely a difference, but being a one is a huge deal compared to a 5, two morehome games. I expect Lehigh will get a seed. I think there are five better teams, but I would not expect Lehigh to be the easy out that many here seem to think.

[Appattk]

Lehigh will go 11-0

Lehigh will get a top 5 seed

I agree... I don't see them getting any higher than #5 due to the schedule and conference affiliation.

[BisonBacker]

If they go 11-0, they should get the #5 seed. Undefeated is undefeated in my book and at the least they should get that final seed and one home game. Then we can all see how worthy of a choice it is come the actual games being played!

I like lehigh and think they have a good team but their record against the conference to me doesn't mean much. If Appy, GSU, EWU, SHSU, NDSU, SDSU, Montana State (do I need to keep going I could keep adding to this list for a while) was to play in that conference they too would have an 11-0 mark. Hell look at the criticisms the MVFC or the Big Sky have for strength of conference. People like to say each of them has more bottom feeders than the other. I'd say either conference has teams at the bottom of the list that would do well in the PL. It is what it is a weak conference traditionally with one team standing out above the others. I've got a good deal of respect for Lehigh from their making the playoffs last year and watching them in person but it doesn't change the fact that teams from the bottom of other traditionally strong conferences like the SoCon or MVFC hell take your pick would put up staggering numbers if they played in the PL.

[Engineer86]

I like lehigh and think they have a good team but their record against the conference to me doesn't mean much. If Appy, GSU, EWU, SHSU, NDSU, SDSU, Montana State (do I need to keep going I could keep adding to this list for a while) was to play in that conference they too would have an 11-0 mark. Hell look at the criticisms the MVFC or the Big Sky have for strength of conference. People like to say each of them has more bottom feeders than the other. I'd say either conference has teams at the bottom of the list that would do well in the PL. It is what it is a weak conference traditionally with one team standing out above the others. I've got a good deal of respect for Lehigh from their making the playoffs last year and watching them in person but it doesn't change the fact that teams from the bottom of other traditionally strong conferences like the SoCon or MVFC hell take your pick would put up staggering numbers if they played in the PL.

Ok, if that list of teams played Lehigh's schedule would there be such an uproar if they were undefeated and had a chance for a seed. I do not think so. I don't disagree those teams would be undefeated, they would still be viewed differently than Lehigh is being viewed, just like SHSU was last year in the #1 seed discussion.

[kalm]

Ok, if that list of teams played Lehigh's schedule would there be such an uproar if they were undefeated and had a chance for a seed. I do not think so. I don't disagree those teams would be undefeated, they would still be viewed differently than Lehigh is being viewed, just like SHSU was last year in the #1 seed discussion.

Yes, there would. Just like there's a mild uproar over NAU's SOS. It's not some secret cabal of Lehigh hatred driving this.

You can't control how good your conference is, but you can control your OOC. Compare Monmouth, CCSU, Princeton, and Liberty with Arizona State, New Mexico State, and Fort Lewis. Or, take Montana State's OOC of Chadron, Drake, and SFA. Then there's our OOC of Washington State, Idaho, and Cal Poly. If Lehigh gets a seed it will more than likely be at the expense of one, if not two of these teams all of which would be at least two score favorites over Lehigh on a neutral field. And that's without making a conference comparison which is off the charts in favor of these and about a half dozen or so other teams more worthy.

Nobody is saying Lehigh isn't a good team, or that they won't be competitive in the playoffs. Especially if they get a home game or a favorable 1st round matchup. Everyone likes the over achiever...the underdog. But seeds should be based in reality, not feel good stories.

[wapiti]

I have seen the argument on here several times that if a team is undefeated then it should get a seed. May I remind those posters that there was an FCS team that went undefeated in the season and did not even get an invite (let alone a seed!). ( I do not mean any team in a transition period.)

San Diego out of the pioneer leage in either 2005 or 2006 won every game they played that year and did not even get invited. Why??? Strength of Schedule!!!!!
If Lehigh wants a seed then Lehigh either needs to change leagues (unlikely to happen), schedule tough OOC teams, or get the league to improve.

Plus Lehigh has been eekking out wins against their conference mates and if Lehigh is good enough to earn a seed, they should not be winning those games in the closing minutes of the game.

Edit: I am not saying that Lehigh should run up the score, but they should have these games in hand by the 4th quarter.

So no seed for Lehigh.

[BisonBacker]

Ok, if that list of teams played Lehigh's schedule would there be such an uproar if they were undefeated and had a chance for a seed. I do not think so. I don't disagree those teams would be undefeated, they would still be viewed differently than Lehigh is being viewed, just like SHSU was last year in the #1 seed discussion.

No you are incorrect. They wouldn't be viewed any differently if they had always played in the PL and didn't have the current history they have now. If you are constantly beating up on the little kid on the block there is no guarantee you are going to beat a bigger kid when he comes along (case in point Colgate). Like I said this is not so much about Lehigh as it is the PL. The conference and more importantly its members just don't have the same history as the premier conferences. I'd say the only thing that is going to change the minds of fans of the FCS in general would be for other teams in your conference to do something to first dethrone you and also make some noise in the playoffs. Oh and also to show better than getting trounced by bottom feeders of other conferences. See USD vs Colgate. USD is the bottom for the MVFC and yet the leader in your conference is Colgate. They have done nothing against quality teams. Lost to Albany, Lost to Stony Brook, and the loss to USD looks horrid yet Colgate leads your conference? Need I say any more?

[Pard4Life]

NO!

[Appattk]

The real question here is this:

If LEHIGH loses to Colgate this week, does it put them at risk of missing the playoffs entirely?

[BisonBacker]

The real question here is this:

If LEHIGH loses to Colgate this week, does it put them at risk of missing the playoffs entirely?
It damn well should

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Resounding "Yes". An undefeated Lehigh would very much deserve a seed.

[DFW HOYA]

This would be a more interesting poll if Bucknell or Georgetown would finish 11-0--some of you would start arguing that the autobid be rescinded.

If the Engineers are 11-0, they are seeded. Done.

[asumike83]

In my opinion, Lehigh is a good football team and will be a tough out in the playoffs. However, I do not think they have the resume of a top five team. 11-0 is impressive, regardless of the conference. They should get a bye and a home game but their schedule just has not been tough enough to put them ahead of teams like ODU, NAU, Montana State, NDSU or Stony Brook, who could all end up 10-1. There are also teams such as JMU, EWU and Illinois State who could finish with 9-2 records that would also be a stronger overall body of work, at least in my view.

That being said, it is the opinion of the committee that matters and if they finish 11-0, I'd bet they get the #5.

[LEHIGH61]

he, he, he...end of discussion!xrotatehxYou are "causing" a discussion. You are a complete a--hole. You don't even know the Lehigh talent. Eastern Washington - big fing deal; Number 1 -Chris Lum should have won the Peyton award last year over BO BO. Bo Bo won only because of his 2010 efforts. Number 2 -You wii never see a better WR that Ryan Spadola. Basically you don't know what you're talking about. So why would you want to discuss it?

Sure, we've Yes we've won a lot of close games this season and our consistency hasn't been there, but we're 9-0. WE DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR BEING 9-0! North Dakota State just squeezed by Missouri State by 4 points! Missouri State?????? Why don't you get on their case.

[Pard4Life]

The real question here is this:

If LEHIGH loses to Colgate this week, does it put them at risk of missing the playoffs entirely?

No, but you need to ask a more comprehensive question:

If Lehigh losses to Colgate AND Lafayette, two league losses, do they miss the playoffs entirely?

I'd say probably... no marquis wins, weak schedule, and to be honest, they are damn lucky to not have five wins right now.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I remember UMass' head coach in 2003, Mark Whipple, screaming bloody murder about Colgate's seed and the fact that they were headed out to Hamilton to play in the FCS playoffs - this despite the fact the Raiders went 11-0, were the only team to do so that season, and beat FBS Buffalo. Critics pointed to close losses - a 20-19 win over Georgetown, a 27-24 win over Cornell - as a reason why they should be sent on the road in the playoffs rather than be seeded.

Almost ten years later, nothing has changed.

[Pard4Life]

I remember UMass' head coach in 2003, Mark Whipple, screaming bloody murder about Colgate's seed and the fact that they were headed out to Hamilton to play in the FCS playoffs - this despite the fact the Raiders went 11-0, were the only team to do so that season, and beat FBS Buffalo. Critics pointed to close losses - a 20-19 win over Georgetown, a 27-24 win over Cornell - as a reason why they should be sent on the road in the playoffs rather than be seeded.

Almost ten years later, nothing has changed.

Comparing 2003 Colgate and 2012 Lehigh is comparing a BMW to a Yugo...

[LEHIGH61]

Tell that to Ambrose and the Towson team last year.

[Lehigh'98]

NOt much of a difference between a 5 seed and a bye+ home game. Sure you might have a marginally better chance to advance further in the playoffs, but in the end as the Nature Boy once said "To be the man, you gotta beat the man" and in the end there is only 1 man standing.

[kalm]

You are "causing" a discussion. You are a complete a--hole. You don't even know the Lehigh talent. Eastern Washington - big fing deal; Number 1 -Chris Lum should have won the Peyton award last year over BO BO. Bo Bo won only because of his 2010 efforts. Number 2 -You wii never see a better WR that Ryan Spadola. Basically you don't know what you're talking about. So why would you want to discuss it?

Sure, we've Yes we've won a lot of close games this season and our consistency hasn't been there, but we're 9-0. WE DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR BEING 9-0! North Dakota State just squeezed by Missouri State by 4 points! Missouri State?????? Why don't you get on their case.

Spadola and Lum were both impressive in the playoffs. I bet they looked really good during their PL run. But Spadola would have trouble cracking EWU's starting line up this year.

As for Missouri State. That's the entire point here. It's just like us losing to SUU. Every team has NFL talent that can beat you. We gave up a blocked punt for a td, fumbled on their 12 yard line in the 4th quarter, and missed a late 36 yard field goal. We were also down two starting DT's and LB's. So give an NFL talent like Brad Sorenson some time and he will pick you apart - which is exactly what he did.

With the exception of Idaho State and maybe USD, it's a battle every week in a power conference. Every team has scholarship athletes in the two deep and if you play up it's the 3 deeps. You make a couple of mistakes or catch a bad break and you may lose. Oh yeah, and didn't USD beat Colgate this year?

:)

[Engineer86]

NOt much of a difference between a 5 seed and a bye+ home game. Sure you might have a marginally better chance to advance further in the playoffs, but in the end as the Nature Boy once said "To be the man, you gotta beat the man" and in the end there is only 1 man standing.

5 seed versus other three by games, only means you just need the minimum bid for a home game, other than that the 5 seed means nothing. Lehigh could just bye the home game if we want it bad enough.

[kalm]

NOt much of a difference between a 5 seed and a bye+ home game. Sure you might have a marginally better chance to advance further in the playoffs, but in the end as the Nature Boy once said "To be the man, you gotta beat the man" and in the end there is only 1 man standing.

Actually, if higher seeds in your bracket lose ahead of you, there is. We benefited from this in 2010 when NDSU upset Montana State as I'm sure if we were both unseeded, NDSU would have had the higher bid.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Spadola would have trouble cracking EWU's starting line up this year

I know you have Brandon Kaufman, but c'mon. That's just crazy talk.

[LEHIGH61]

It damn well should

You were so damned lucky last year that Ryan Spadola got suspended and yet you bad-mouth Lehigh football. We could have won that game last year with Spadola, because everything in the playbook would have been opened up. One player can make a big difference. Our whole team was not there. We moved the ball all night, but mistakes were made at crucial times. The game was closer than the score, and with Spadola you would have been "shaking in your boots" before it was over. I'd love to have that game back, with Ryan Spadola. You people think too much of yourselves. Maybe it's because you have nothing better to do.

[Pard4Life]

Tell that to Ambrose and the Towson team last year.

Last year's Lehigh team was better than this year's team.

[LEHIGH61]

I know you have Brandon Kaufman, but c'mon. That's just crazy talk.

Give me a break. That is pure stupidity. You really don't know what you are talking about.i

[LEHIGH61]

Last year's Lehigh team was better than this year's team.

Dah. I know that

[RichH2]

Lots of apples and oranges being compared , heck thrown, here. Nope LU not as good this yr as last by a good margin. Nor is LU as weak as some seem to want. For varying stretches in every game LU as good as last yr. For whatever reason every game has periods when LU disappears. So far coaches have not rectified that failing. IF and it is a big IF coaches can at this late date have team play a whole game, including our Sargasso Sea of the 3rd period, we will be very very good. But that's why they play the games.

[kalm]

I know you have Brandon Kaufman, but c'mon. That's just crazy talk.


games rec yds yes/rec td long yes/game
Brandon Kaufman 9 51 1000 19.6 10 93 111.1
Greg Herd 9 39 530 13.6 5 44 58.9
Ashton Clark 9 34 398 11.7 3 36 44.2
Nicholas Edwards 7 23 278 12.1 1 33 39.7

See that guy at #4 on the list? He's only missed two games, but last year was a 1st team AA, caught 95 balls for 1250 yards and scored 19 touchdowns. We've also got underclassmen in Cory Mitchell and Shaq Hill that will absolutely kill it when given the chance.

[gotts]

You were so damned lucky last year that Ryan Spadola got suspended and yet you bad-mouth Lehigh football. We could have won that game last year with Spadola, because everything in the playbook would have been opened up. One player can make a big difference. Our whole team was not there. We moved the ball all night, but mistakes were made at crucial times. The game was closer than the score, and with Spadola you would have been "shaking in your boots" before it was over. I'd love to have that game back, with Ryan Spadola. You people think too much of yourselves. Maybe it's because you have nothing better to do.

You're still whining about last year? Let it go already...

[Doc QB]

You were so damned lucky last year that Ryan Spadola got suspended and yet you bad-mouth Lehigh football. We could have won that game last year with Spadola, because everything in the playbook would have been opened up. One player can make a big difference. Our whole team was not there. We moved the ball all night, but mistakes were made at crucial times. The game was closer than the score, and with Spadola you would have been "shaking in your boots" before it was over. I'd love to have that game back, with Ryan Spadola. You people think too much of yourselves. Maybe it's because you have nothing better to do.

I bleed brown, but I disagree with above. Ryan's and Barkett's absence were not the difference last year, it was all NDSU. There were too solid, top to bottom, controlled the LOS, controlled the game,and won the contest.

11-0 is not a given, neitheris 9-2, but the thought of it occurring and the seed discussion is interesting. However, I wish it was going on in the context of last year's LU team. That 2011 team "earning" a seed in this year's field would be fun to watch indeed. Sadly, as many posters attest, even an undefeated LU squad this year has question marks. And of the Lehigh faithful here, I would be mindful of comparisons to other season's LU playoff contenders, as those teams were much better, had more consistent play, and did have some better resumes going in. A home playoff game would be great, probably deserved, but that is it.

[BisonBacker]

You were so damned lucky last year that Ryan Spadola got suspended and yet you bad-mouth Lehigh football. We could have won that game last year with Spadola, because everything in the playbook would have been opened up. One player can make a big difference. Our whole team was not there. We moved the ball all night, but mistakes were made at crucial times. The game was closer than the score, and with Spadola you would have been "shaking in your boots" before it was over. I'd love to have that game back, with Ryan Spadola. You people think too much of yourselves. Maybe it's because you have nothing better to do.

1. We were not lucky last year the NDSU team was just that good.
2. The fact you can't see that makes any dialogue with you nearly impossible.
3. Spadola maybe a good WR but it wouldn't have mattered See #1.
4. I haven't bad mouthed Lehigh football. I said you had a good team. Apparently you can't read.

[kalm]

Give me a break. That is pure stupidity. You really don't know what you are talking about.i

No, Spadola was very good, but it's a legit point. Kaufman and Edwards are both 1st team All Americans against superior competition. Herd is having a great year in 2012 and has been in their shadow all along. Mitchell (older brother of Bo) has good size (6-2, the other three go 6-5, 6-3, and 6-3), is the fastest of the bunch and is number 5 on the depth chart behind Ashton Clark who is also having a great season. Not saying Spadola wouldn't start, but he'd be challenged.

[LEHIGH61]

You're still whining about last year? Let it go already...Stop making stupid remarks,

[LEHIGH61]

Sure, I was impressed with North Dakota State. They deserved to win the FCS Title. Things would have been different with Ryan in there. Admit that you got a break. You weren't lucky to win, but when your team got the news that Spadola would not play, they MUST HAVE BEEN RELIEVED! that l
1. We were not lucky last year the NDSU team was just that good.
2. The fact you can't see that makes any dialogue with you nearly impossible.
3. Spadola maybe a good WR but it wouldn't have mattered See #1.
4. I haven't bad mouthed Lehigh football. I said you had a good team. Apparently you can't read.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Sure, I was impressed with North Dakota State. They deserved to win the FCS Title. Things would have been different with Ryan in there. Admit that you got a break. You weren't lucky to win, but when your team got the news that Spadola would not play, they MUST HAVE BEEN RELIEVED! that l

Not to have that argument again but the same result happened with

Tim Flanders
Richard Sincere
Dominique Swope

None of them got suspended, yet NDSU had some success against them.

[LEHIGH61]

I bleed brown, but I disagree with above. Ryan's and Barkett's absence were not the difference last year, it was all NDSU. There were too solid, top to bottom, controlled the LOS, controlled the game,and won the contest.

11-0 is not a given, neitheris 9-2, but the thought of it occurring and the seed discussion is interesting. However, I wish it was going on in the context of last year's LU team. That 2011 team "earning" a seed in this year's field would be fun to watch indeed. Sadly, as many posters attest, even an undefeated LU squad this year has question marks. And of the Lehigh faithful here, I would be mindful of comparisons to other season's LU playoff contenders, as those teams were much better, had more consistent play, and did have some better resumes going in. A home playoff game would be great, probably deserved, but that is it.

Lehigh isn't much better with Spadola in the lineup? Come on?

[RichH2]

Oh c'mon NDSU too solid for us last yr. Even with Zach and Ryan a closer game for sure but still a loss.

[CHIP72]

Oh c'mon NDSU too solid for us last yr. Even with Zach and Ryan a closer game for sure but still a loss.

Yeah, I have to agree with this too. If the final score was say 24-13, then I think the Spadola argument would have legitimacy, but the game was 24-0. Even without Spadola, I didn't think Lehigh's offense could be stymied, but they were in that game. At least it was the eventual national champs who did the trick.

[Professor Chaos]

Nope, these are teams I would seed higher than an 11-0 Lehigh and I don't see there being less than 5 of these possibilities come to fruition come November 18th:

1) 10-1 NDSU
2) 10-1 Montana St
3) 9-2 Eastern Washington
4) 10-1 Old Dominion
5) 9-2 Georgia Southern
6) 9-2 James Madison
7) 9-2 New Hampshire
8) 10-1 Northen Arizona
9) 10-1 Stony Brook
10) 9-2 SDSU

[danefan]

Nope, these are teams I would seed higher than an 11-0 Lehigh and I don't see there being less than 5 of these possibilities come to fruition come November 18th:

1) 10-1 NDSU
2) 10-1 Montana St
3) 9-2 Eastern Washington
4) 10-1 Old Dominion
5) 9-2 Georgia Southern
6) 9-2 James Madison
7) 9-2 New Hampshire
8) 10-1 Northen Arizona
9) 10-1 Stony Brook
10) 9-2 SDSU

Agreed. Too many strong teams from power conferences out there this year.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oh c'mon NDSU too solid for us last yr. Even with Zach and Ryan a closer game for sure but still a loss.

+1

[HailSzczur]

I'd just like to point out that this week 2 DI win UNI received 12 votes in the AGS poll. Assuming they were all #25 votes(I really hope no one voted them any higher), thats 12 of 89 votes. Thats 13.5% of "well informed FCS football minds". Given opinions like that, is it really that radical to think that a undefeated Lehigh gets a seed? People are rewarding UNI for playing a very tough schedule, but failing to win. Why can't Lehigh be rewarded for playing a so-so schedule and winning?

[Twentysix]

I'd just like to point out that this week 2 DI win UNI received 12 votes in the AGS poll. Assuming they were all #25 votes(I really hope no one voted them any higher), thats 12 of 89 votes. Thats 13.5% of "well informed FCS football minds". Given opinions like that, is it really that radical to think that a undefeated Lehigh gets a seed? People are rewarding UNI for playing a very tough schedule, but failing to win. Why can't Lehigh be rewarded for playing a so-so schedule and winning?

Or one person voted Northern Iowa #13 instead of Northern Arizona. Or one UNI fan is being an idgit and voted them #13. Both seem more likely than 12 #25 votes.

[HailSzczur]

Or one person voted Northern Iowa #13 instead of Northern Arizona. Or one UNI fan is being an idgit and voted them #13. Both seem more likely than 12 #25 votes.

Good point. But still, UNI was rewarded for the longest time for playing a tough schedule but not winning, is it crazy to think Lehigh shouldn't be rewarded for the opposite. I am no means trying to justify a seed with this, just something to think about.

[Twentysix]

Good point. But still, UNI was rewarded for the longest time for playing a tough schedule but not winning, is it crazy to think Lehigh shouldn't be rewarded for the opposite. I am no means trying to justify a seed with this, just something to think about.

UNI wasn't rewarded, they just werent discounted. People voting them in after the NDSU game expected them to go 7-4. UNI would probably win the PL this year. Would win the PFL with only 10 players on the field each play. Would probably come in 2nd in the Big South. And would win the NEC.

P.s. Ursus confirmed UNI recieved only 1 vote, it was intentional.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

UNI wasn't rewarded, they just werent discounted. People voting them in after the NDSU game expected them to go 7-4. UNI would probably win the PL this year. Would win the PFL with only 10 players on the field each play. Would probably come in 2nd in the Big South. And would win the NEC.

P.s. Ursus confirmed UNI recieved only 1 vote, it was intentional.

And, it was not a UNI voter or even an MVFC voter.

[PAllen]

Nope, these are teams I would seed higher than an 11-0 Lehigh and I don't see there being less than 5 of these possibilities come to fruition come November 18th:

1) 10-1 NDSU
2) 10-1 Montana St
3) 9-2 Eastern Washington
4) 10-1 Old Dominion
5) 9-2 Georgia Southern
6) 9-2 James Madison
7) 9-2 New Hampshire
8) 10-1 Northen Arizona
9) 10-1 Stony Brook
10) 9-2 SDSU

I agree with the highlighted teams, but then again, I would put a 9-2 GSU team as #1 since that means beating Georgia between the hedges!

[Professor Chaos]

I agree with the highlighted teams, but then again, I would put a 9-2 GSU team as #1 since that means beating Georgia between the hedges!
Good point, for some reason I was thinking even with a UGA loss the Eagles would've been 9-2. I'd take them off the list then, I think an 11-0 Lehigh is seeded ahead of an 8-3 GSU.

However, to your other point you need to look at the teams a 9-2 EWU and a 10-1 ODU would've beaten compared to who Lehigh has beaten. I understand there's always the "look who they lost to" argument but IMO the "look who they beat" argument holds more weight.

[Pard4Life]

Well, let's say the 4 seeds deservedly go to:

NDSU
Montana St.
Stony Brook
Georgia Southern
5?

...will the committee deny a 9-2 CAA team like UNH or JMU. Both have one FBS loss... and GPI will factor in of course.

[Engineer86]

Well, let's say the 4 seeds deservedly go to:

NDSU
Montana St.
Stony Brook
Georgia Southern
5?

...will the committee deny a 9-2 CAA team like UNH or JMU. Both have one FBS loss... and GPI will factor in of course.

Stony Brook at 10-1 with a SOS just above Lehigh gets a seed over Lehigh at 11-0 with a SOS just below SB. Time will tell if Lehigh is 11-0, but if we get there, you need to take off those rose colored glasses. The committee showed last year wins matter, particularly in this case where the SOS is so similar.

I know it would be tough for you to swallow, but you can take it.

[Lehigh'98]

All the 11-0 talk is very premature, especially for our fans and team. Lehigh/Colgate of the last 15 years is a huge rivalry for both teams and right or not, Colgate may be favored by a few points. All focus to this Saturday.

[LehighGuy]

We've watched a lot of great Lehigh squads get sent to the road over the past 15 years. This is not a great Lehigh squad. If absolute dominance across the division is the metric, I genuinely don't feel they deserve a seed even if they run the table.

That being said, this is one of most awesome teams I've watched in Lehigh history. Their general lack of talent is compensated for by their incredible resilience, teamwork, and will to win. I don't expect the committee's consensus on Lehigh will be different from any other year. Frankly, I don't care. That's kind of Lehigh's magic. You take a team of non-scholarship players on the road to a place where no one has ever heard of them and win games no one even though you should be at in the first place. I wouldn't have it any other way.

[LehighU11]

We've watched a lot of great Lehigh squads get sent to the road over the past 15 years. This is not a great Lehigh squad. If absolute dominance across the division is the metric, I genuinely don't feel they deserve a seed even if they run the table.

That being said, this is one of most awesome teams I've watched in Lehigh history. Their general lack of talent is compensated for by their incredible resilience, teamwork, and will to win. I don't expect the committee's consensus on Lehigh will be different from any other year. Frankly, I don't care. That's kind of Lehigh's magic. You take a team of non-scholarship players on the road to a place where no one has ever heard of them and win games no one even though you should be at in the first place. I wouldn't have it any other way.

+1. There is certainly something "magical" about our program, especially in the most recent decade. It looks like it has even carried over to the basketball team now.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

not from a league only slightly better than the pioneer. So in your view if the pioneer league champ is 11-0 next year they should be seeded? What color is the sun in your world?

Your hypothetical is missing something. The Pioneer League champ would have to eke out those 11 wins by the narrowest of margins.

[LeeshaJo]

anyone who can go 11-0 deserves to be recognized.... I debated this for a day before I voted. I really wanted to say no, btw.

[Pard4Life]

+1. There is certainly something "magical" about our program, especially in the most recent decade. It looks like it has even carried over to the basketball team now.

I don't think "magic" looks and smells like $h*t. You lost to us 5 of six years, so not exactly "magical." CJ was a needle in a haystack, your recruits do not pass muster academically as you cut corners, and JuCo Joe caused an enitre Lehigh bball season to be forfeited. Once CJ goes, you go back to mid-pack or bottom feeder and your coach goes to a higher mid-major program.

[LehighGuy]

Your hypothetical is missing something. The Pioneer League champ would have to eke out those 11 wins by the narrowest of margins.

His hypothetical is also missing a proven track record of playoff success and eight league championships over the past 15 years. I know everyone on this board likes to think the selection committee makes these decisions in a vacuum each year, but much like BLM's Payton Award, selections are somewhat influenced by lifetime achievement.

[heath]

The seeds are for the best 5 teams in the playoffs. I don't think Lehigh fits that description even at 11-0.

Sounds like a great idea,has that ever happened?

[heath]

I don't think "magic" looks and smells like $h*t. You lost to us 5 of six years, so not exactly "magical." CJ was a needle in a haystack, your recruits do not pass muster academically as you cut corners, and JuCo Joe caused an enitre Lehigh bball season to be forfeited. Once CJ goes, you go back to mid-pack or bottom feeder and your coach goes to a higher mid-major program.

Wow,sour grapes again.xbawlingx Glad lax wasn't mentioned.Sounds like penis envy pards. Cannot wait for the thread next week,just try and win sometime soon.

[Mr. C]

I have seen the argument on here several times that if a team is undefeated then it should get a seed. May I remind those posters that there was an FCS team that went undefeated in the season and did not even get an invite (let alone a seed!). ( I do not mean any team in a transition period.)

San Diego out of the pioneer leage in either 2005 or 2006 won every game they played that year and did not even get invited. Why??? Strength of Schedule!!!!!
If Lehigh wants a seed then Lehigh either needs to change leagues (unlikely to happen), schedule tough OOC teams, or get the league to improve.

Plus Lehigh has been eekking out wins against their conference mates and if Lehigh is good enough to earn a seed, they should not be winning those games in the closing minutes of the game.

Edit: I am not saying that Lehigh should run up the score, but they should have these games in hand by the 4th quarter.

So no seed for Lehigh.

You missed the qualifier to those statements. San Diego was not from an auto-bid conference and, also, USD went 10-1 both in 2005 and 2006, not 11-0.

[RichH2]

P4L
Way over the top. Bitter vitriol with no leavening of humor. Take out your venom about the pathetic state of Pard.sports onyour leaders not us. Lafayette week we can swap barbs. You are better than that post. Shame on you.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

His hypothetical is also missing a proven track record of playoff success and eight league championships over the past 15 years. I know everyone on this board likes to think the selection committee makes these decisions in a vacuum each year, but much like BLM's Payton Award, selections are somewhat influenced by lifetime achievement.

Not at all. He had better stand alone numbers in 2011.

[World]

games rec yds yes/rec td long yes/game
Brandon Kaufman 9 51 1000 19.6 10 93 111.1
Greg Herd 9 39 530 13.6 5 44 58.9
Ashton Clark 9 34 398 11.7 3 36 44.2
Nicholas Edwards 7 23 278 12.1 1 33 39.7

See that guy at #4 on the list? He's only missed two games, but last year was a 1st team AA, caught 95 balls for 1250 yards and scored 19 touchdowns. We've also got underclassmen in Cory Mitchell and Shaq Hill that will absolutely kill it when given the chance.


and yet none of these receivers would come close to Lehigh's Spadola, who will be drafted in the first 4 rounds this coming year.

[World]

No, Spadola was very good, but it's a legit point. Kaufman and Edwards are both 1st team All Americans against superior competition. Herd is having a great year in 2012 and has been in their shadow all along. Mitchell (older brother of Bo) has good size (6-2, the other three go 6-5, 6-3, and 6-3), is the fastest of the bunch and is number 5 on the depth chart behind Ashton Clark who is also having a great season. Not saying Spadola wouldn't start, but he'd be challenged.


and yet again, none of these players would come close to All American Spadola

[Screamin_Eagle174]

and yet none of these receivers would come close to Lehigh's Spadola, who will be drafted in the first 4 rounds this coming year.

LMFAO. Kaufman will be drafted before Spadola, even if he comes out early after this season. Both he and Edwards are better than Spadola. Edwards' stock took a hit though from being out with injury a few games this year.

[Southsider]

P4L
Way over the top. Bitter vitriol with no leavening of humor. Take out your venom about the pathetic state of Pard.sports onyour leaders not us. Lafayette week we can swap barbs. You are better than that post. Shame on you.


His comments should surprise no one. He's right up there with Citdog......

[Engineer86]

You missed the qualifier to those statements. San Diego was not from an auto-bid conference and, also, USD went 10-1 both in 2005 and 2006, not 11-0.

You keep bringing these pesky facts and logic into this barrage of opinion.xthumbsupx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Stop making stupid remarks,

You sound like a child with computer privileges. The exact type of irrational homer you claim others to be. Lay off the wine coolers.

[LehighGuy]

Not at all. He had better stand alone numbers in 2011.

If by "better stand alone numbers" you mean 1 more TD while having worse numbers in literally every other category, then yes I agree with you.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

If by "better stand alone numbers" you mean 1 more TD while having worse numbers in literally every other category, then yes I agree with you.

No, he had more TDs, yards, avg per completion, and few INTs... at the end of the regular season when the voting commences. Playoff numbers don't count, in case you didn't know.

[LehighGuy]

No, he had more TDs, yards, avg per completion, and few INTs... at the end of the regular season when the voting commences. Playoff numbers don't count, in case you didn't know.

Oh that's right, Bo only played in ELEVEN games last year. Chris took his team to 13. I concede. He TOTALLY deserved it. xrotatehx

[Pard4Life]

P4L
Way over the top. Bitter vitriol with no leavening of humor. Take out your venom about the pathetic state of Pard.sports onyour leaders not us. Lafayette week we can swap barbs. You are better than that post. Shame on you.

Perhaps, but I guess the week started early for us since the Fordham game does not count in conference. Our leaders don't exactly care as athletics are merely extracurricular. There is truth in my comments however.

[Pard4Life]

His comments should surprise no one. He's right up there with Citdog......

Now that's insulting...

[kalm]

His hypothetical is also missing a proven track record of playoff success and eight league championships over the past 15 years. I know everyone on this board likes to think the selection committee makes these decisions in a vacuum each year, but much like BLM's Payton Award, selections are somewhat influenced by lifetime achievement.

I know you guys have won two playoff games in the past two years. Please list the rest of the track record. And again with the conference success...oy!

[Engineer86]

I know you guys have won two playoff games in the past two years. Please list the rest of the track record. And again with the conference success...oy!

In the last 15 year Lehigh has been in the playoffs 7 times and won 5 game and in two years lost to eventual champions by a combined 7 points (or 10 yards). I realize that is not a run to the NC game like some teams have, like Colgate, but there are not many teams that have had level of success. Yes I am sure there are at least 10, but many would love that level of success.

[RichH2]

Now that's insulting...

Now that was funny. Dont lose your sense of humor.

[grayghost06]

P4L
Way over the top. Bitter vitriol with no leavening of humor. Take out your venom about the pathetic state of Pard.sports onyour leaders not us. Lafayette week we can swap barbs. You are better than that post. Shame on you.

Speaking of which...is Mpls still with us?

[skinny_uncle]

Lehigh is currently tied for first in the Patriot with a Colgate team who lost to the worst team in the MVFC. That tells me a lot about the strength of their league.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All I have concluded from this thread is if Lehigh wins out...

Round 2: Eastern Washington @ No. 5 Lehigh

[Tim James]

Its worrisome that the league isnt trying to do anything to make itself better. They just added 2 non football schools. That wont help an 11-0 undefeated PL team in the future. The same discussion will just come up again and again.

[Hawk98]

Its worrisome that the league isnt trying to do anything to make itself better. They just added 2 non football schools. That wont help an 11-0 undefeated PL team in the future. The same discussion will just come up again and again.

PL isn't solely about football.

[dudeitsaid]

All I have concluded from this thread is if Lehigh wins out...

Round 2: Eastern Washington @ No. 5 Lehigh

I'd take that!

[Twentysix]

Spadola is being drafted? Draft trackers have him as the #74/366 WR. I had no idea that many recievers go in the draft... must be round 46. 4.52 40 time..

[Tim James]

PL isn't solely about football.

Yes of course but this is a football discussion we are having.

[Twentysix]

PL isn't solely about football.

Or research :p

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'd take that!

So would I. So would I.

[RichH2]

Speaking of which...is Mpls still with us?

Sshhhh! We never mention that name. If you do it appears and doesn't go


away.

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh is currently tied for first in the Patriot with a Colgate team who lost to the worst team in the MVFC. That tells me a lot about the strength of their league.

And what does Colgate losing by one to Stony Brook, a team receiving number one votes and beat Army at West Point, say about the strength of the league?

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Oh that's right, Bo only played in ELEVEN games last year. Chris' team took him to 13 in a weak conference. I concede. He TOTALLY deserved it. xrotatehx

FIFY.

[ngineer]

We've watched a lot of great Lehigh squads get sent to the road over the past 15 years. This is not a great Lehigh squad. If absolute dominance across the division is the metric, I genuinely don't feel they deserve a seed even if they run the table.

That being said, this is one of most awesome teams I've watched in Lehigh history. Their general lack of talent is compensated for by their incredible resilience, teamwork, and will to win. I don't expect the committee's consensus on Lehigh will be different from any other year. Frankly, I don't care. That's kind of Lehigh's magic. You take a team of non-scholarship players on the road to a place where no one has ever heard of them and win games no one even though you should be at in the first place. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Yet, I recall in 2004, we lost to Laughyette to end 8-3 and still got a home game with James Madison. How was that ever explained?

[RichH2]

Rep. We had been very good from99 . A great run.

[kalm]

So would I. So would I.

I wouldn't. I'd have to watch us play a less deserving opponent in their stadium. I would much prefer to watch it in Cheney.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Yet, I recall in 2004, we lost to Laughyette to end 8-3 and still got a home game with James Madison. How was that ever explained?

Lehigh was 9-2. Lost to LC and Villanova.

[LehighU11]

I wouldn't. I'd have to watch us play a less deserving opponent in their stadium. I would much prefer to watch it in Cheney.

As long as we don't have to play on that red eyesore or the purple and gray striped one at UCA, I'll be content.:D

[Pard4Life]

Lehigh was 9-2. Lost to LC and Villanova.

That 2004 home game occurred because both teams were unseeded and bids took precedence. Lehigh likely bid more for the game. Plus, regional match-ups were a factor too.

[kalm]

As long as we don't have to play on that red eyesore or the purple and gray striped one at UCA, I'll be content.:D

.

[LUHawker]

That 2004 home game occurred because both teams were unseeded and bids took precedence. Lehigh likely bid more for the game. Plus, regional match-ups were a factor too.

These are accurate commments, but I'd also throw in that I think Lehigh's home game was a little bit of give back for getting "Woofed" the year before. No way we'll ever know, but could have influenced the decision.

[Pard4Life]

I don't know about the woofed make-up... JMU had sub-par facilities at the time if I remember correctly.

[The Cats]

The 5 best football teams deserve a seed.

1+

[Screamin_Eagle174]

.

xlolx xlolx xlolx

Don't think the file is large enough to read. Here ya go.

http://www.myuploadedimages.com/images/87300990349407616365.jpg

[TheValleyRaider]

Man, going to be a lot of angry people around here if Colgate wins on Saturday xcoffeex

[RichH2]

These are accurate commments, but I'd also throw in that I think Lehigh's home game was a little bit of give back for getting "Woofed" the year before. No way we'll ever know, but could have influenced the decision.

+ 1

[heath]

Man, going to be a lot of angry people around here if Colgate wins on Saturday xcoffeex

Got that right.especially the 8-3 bubble teams that then have to contend with a possible 10-1 Lehigh. If Lehigh loses last two games,nobody will care.Colgate will be the only PL team.

[Engineer86]

Got that right.especially the 8-3 bubble teams that then have to contend with a possible 10-1 Lehigh. If Lehigh loses last two games,nobody will care.Colgate will be the only PL team.

That last game is against Lafayette for god sake! We're talking about Lafayette, we can't get to less than 10 wins now. :D

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Man, going to be a lot of angry people around here if Colgate wins on Saturday xcoffeex

IF? xeyebrowx xcoffeex

[van]

That last game is against Lafayette for god sake! We're talking about Lafayette, we can't get to less than 10 wins now. :D

+1

[kalm]

xlolx xlolx xlolx

Don't think the file is large enough to read. Here ya go.

http://www.myuploadedimages.com/images/87300990349407616365.jpg

Thanks for helping out a technologically challenged elder! How did you do it?

[Twentysix]

Thanks for helping out a technologically challenged elder! How did you do it?

Black magic.

[clorenzo21]

Colgate giving up 30 points a game to Lehigh's 20. Plus, game is at Goodman. It's all over for Dick Biddle :/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Colgate giving up 30 points a game to Lehigh's 20. Plus, game is at Goodman. It's all over for Dick Biddle :/

Biddle has lost three of his last four at Goodman. His last win came in a barn-burner in 2008, when... um... guess you'll have to wait for my "Hate the 'Gate" column tomorrow on that! :D

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Thanks for helping out a technologically challenged elder! How did you do it?

Uploaded the photo I had to myuploadedimages.com and wrapped img tags around it.

[Sam]

Biddle has lost three of his last four at Goodman. His last win came in a barn-burner in 2008, when... um... guess you'll have to wait for my "Hate the 'Gate" column tomorrow on that! :D
PASTxbawlingx
SATURDAY Colgate plays at GoodWIN stadium xthumbsupx

[Saint3333]

There is no more polarizing team in FCS over the last 15 years than Lehigh. I find it fascinating that it has carried on this long. You either "get it" or you don't with Lehigh. In general I think the majority of CAA fans have respect for the hawks and the PL. Some folks are simply blinded by cluelessness.

I'm indifferent to Lehigh, not sure I agree they are polarizing, certainly not the most polarizing.

I don't Think Lehigh gets it, at least whoever is making their schedule doesn't get it. You have play better competition OOC to deserve a seed. Which was the question, that said I think they will get a seed based upon history.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

People can't, and won't, get Lehigh unless they go to 11-0 and "shock" another state school in the FCS playoffs. The "shock" will come from FCS nation, but not the folks from Lehigh or the rest of the PL.

[ngineer]

I'm indifferent to Lehigh, not sure I agree they are polarizing, certainly not the most polarizing.

I don't Think Lehigh gets it, at least whoever is making their schedule doesn't get it. You have play better competition OOC to deserve a seed. Which was the question, that said I think they will get a seed based upon history.

For the PL schools, it is tough making OOC schedules as we can't (for now) schedule the "pay day" games with FBS schools with any regularity because we don't 'count' for the FBS schools' bowl game calculation. That hopefully changes once we get to 60 scholarships in four years. In the meantime the "power conference teams' many times use their OOC games for the 'pay day' games not leaving many opportunities. I know we have sought to play The Citadel for a while with their HC being a former HC of ours, but they haven't been able to make it work because of money issues. Occasionally, we can schedule a CAA school but it's erratic. We have played UNH, Villanova recently, but a long standing rivalry with Delaware has gone into mothballs because they won't ever come to Goodman (UNH and VU) were willling to do home and homes). Because of the various difficulties, the PL has its 'working relationship' with the Ivy League and schedules with them are usually made 2-4 years out and the team you thought were scheduling isn't always as good as you thought once they appear. There are a lot of variables that effect scheduling, but believe me, most of the PL ADs try very hard to get quality OOC games. Once we have schollies, then I see games with likes of Temple, Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, and Syracuse occurring with more frequency. Until then, we get to prove our ability to the rest of the country in the playoffs.

[RichH2]

UNH only one that will schedule 1&1 series. Nova wont play us at all. UD , a shame that series endef but since they refuse to come here not likely to resume at any time soon. Building schedule with single away games at "power" schools may help but a hit or miss option. We may get some $$ games over the next few yrs but to me that is not a step to a stronger national schedule, cept for $$$.
For PL more consistent success in playoffs seems only current way to increase rep for us. Altho, it doen't seem to have done much so far.

[PAllen]

I agree that money games are not a step to a stronger resume. No disgrace in playing Ivy's every year. love having Princeton, wish we still had Penn, but alas, they don't want any more. The Citadel will never happen. They lost a "boat load" of money with their series with Delaware and have to see Lehigh as much of the same. Would be interested in a Richmond series, but my guess is they are similar to 'Nova in not wanting to touch the third rail of looking like too good of a fit in the PL. Heck, Wofford still owes us a game at our place. Maybe we could do a 1 for 1 with them after they've finished the previously agreed to series.

[Saint3333]

I don't think Lehigh or PL schools should try for FBS game, but they should try to schedule a game with a CAA, SoCon, or MVC program each year if they are serious about their strength of schedule. I obviously don't get a vote but would reward a 10-1 PL team with a good OOC win and a tough loss to a top half PL team over an 11-0 PL team that played a weak schedule and squeaked out wins over their schedule.

For the record I have had nothing but respect for the PL after Lafayette visited App in the playoffs a few years ago. Those guys were well coached and played as a team.

[CFBfan]

I don't think Lehigh or PL schools should try for FBS game, but they should try to schedule a game with a CAA, SoCon, or MVC program each year if they are serious about their strength of schedule. I obviously don't get a vote but would reward a 10-1 PL team with a good OOC win and a tough loss to a top half PL team over an 11-0 PL team that played a weak schedule and squeaked out wins over their schedule.

For the record I have had nothing but respect for the PL after Lafayette visited App in the playoffs a few years ago. Those guys were well coached and played as a team.

FBS games are $MONEY games, CAA, SoCon, MVC are NOT

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The dirty little secret is that the PL teams would get enough wins over Army, Rutgers, Buffalo and the like to get back in the game. Just look at Stony Brook. They walloped Army, and now they're being bandied about as a seed, with a schedule that frankly is not all that much stronger than Lehigh's.

[Saint3333]

FBS games are $MONEY games, CAA, SoCon, MVC are NOT

What does that have to do with our discussion regarding SOS and playoff seeding?

[walliver]

SOS is always a sticky subject.

If the Atlanta Falcons went undefeated in the Pioneer League, should they get a playoff spot.

The SOS argument had been used for years against Boise State. We can argue all day about how well Boise would hold up in the SEC, PAC, or Big whatevers. The fact is that their required conference schedule in the mighty WAC, coupled with limited desire by BCS teams to travel to awesome Idaho prevents them from putting together a convincing schedule.

Lehigh does not have a good strength of schedule. There is really no metric which tells us how strong the team actually is. Computer models tend to reward teams for losing to good teams and punish them for beating bad teams.

I don't think they are a top 5 team, but I suspect they will get the 5th seed. This belief is due in some part to committee tradition. It also helps that the SoCon champion (whoever it is) will probably finish the year 8-3 and won't get a seed (opening up a spot).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think they are a top 5 team, but I suspect they will get the 5th seed. This belief is due in some part to committee tradition. It also helps that the SoCon champion (whoever it is) will probably finish the year 8-3 and won't get a seed (opening up a spot).

Assuming Lehigh wins their last two games! Not a given by any stretch.

[RichH2]

Saint
Agree that scheduling CAA,SOCON,MVC ,the best way to get better sched. But,as has been pointed out, not likely to happen. We have tried over the yrs w/o much success. In the short term, games with PL members Army and Navy will help. There may be a few singles but do not see any series over the next few yrs. Most of us will likely keep 2-3 Ivy games, unless , as some Ivy coaches have said, they stop scheduling us in regular series . In that event there will be more spots open for single games with power teams , if they will schedule us.

[RichH2]

Saint
Agree that scheduling CAA,SOCON,MVC ,the best way to get better sched. But,as has been pointed out, not likely to happen. We have tried over the yrs w/o much success. In the short term, games with PL members Army and Navy will help. There may be a few singles but do not see any series over the next few yrs. Most of us will likely keep 2-3 Ivy games, unless , as some Ivy coaches have said, they stop scheduling us in regular series . In that event there will be more spots open for single games with power teams , if they will schedule us.

[Twentysix]

FBS games are $MONEY games, CAA, SoCon, MVC are NOT

For Lehigh, NDSU would probably pay 100-150k for a one and done. I'd call that a money game for a non scholly school.

[RichH2]

Saint
Agree that scheduling CAA,SOCON,MVC ,the best way to get better sched. But,as has been pointed out, not likely to happen. We have tried over the yrs w/o much success. In the short term, games with PL members Army and Navy will help. There may be a few singles but do not see any series over the next few yrs. Most of us will likely keep 2-3 Ivy games, unless , as some Ivy coaches have said, they stop scheduling us in regular series . In that event there will be more spots open for single games with power teams , if they will schedule us.

[LUHawker]

Nova wont play us at all.

Rich,
What happened here? I know Talley is probably still smarting from having lost just one of the 6 game series (and frankly, he got lucky it ended before last year), but this is a perfect series to have. What gives?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

For Lehigh, NDSU would probably pay 100-150k for a one and done. I'd call that a money game for a non scholly school.

Are you kidding? That might pay expenses for going out to Fargo. If that.

[Twentysix]

Are you kidding? That might pay expenses for going out to Fargo. If that.

I would love for you to present evidence that teams aren't even breaking even, or are only breaking even when playing one and dones in Fargo.

[Wallace]

The dirty little secret is that the PL teams would get enough wins over Army, Rutgers, Buffalo and the like to get back in the game. Just look at Stony Brook. They walloped Army, and now they're being bandied about as a seed, with a schedule that frankly is not all that much stronger than Lehigh's.

I don't know any credible people touting Stony Brook as a seed but SBU is not a PL team. Plus, comparing Lehigh's #89 rated schedule with USB's #66 as "not all that much stronger" is as much a stretch as comparing the power of Lehigh's team with Stony Brook's.

[RichH2]

Talley will not allow it. May change once we are full schollie. He does not want to risk another loss to what he views as a weak non schollie Ivy type team. To him no benefit to a win but embarrassing to lose to us again.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would love for you to present evidence that teams aren't even breaking even, or are only breaking even when playing one and dones in Fargo.

"Money games" imply money above and beyond "breaking even" to be able to pay for things in the athletic department. Not that $150K is chopped liver, it's not. But it's not balancing the budgets, either. You can't equate a $400,000 payday from, say, Louisville and a $150,000 payday from NDSU, ASU, or Delaware. It's just not the same.

Now, if it's a $150,000 game for Lehigh to go to Delaware, that's a whole different animal. That's a bus trip, kids stay and practice on campus, and the athletic department gets money from that. But not a flight halfway across the country with an overnight stay.

[Engineer86]

I don't think Lehigh or PL schools should try for FBS game, but they should try to schedule a game with a CAA, SoCon, or MVC program each year if they are serious about their strength of schedule. I obviously don't get a vote but would reward a 10-1 PL team with a good OOC win and a tough loss to a top half PL team over an 11-0 PL team that played a weak schedule and squeaked out wins over their schedule.

For the record I have had nothing but respect for the PL after Lafayette visited App in the playoffs a few years ago. Those guys were well coached and played as a team.

I would say that it is tough to get home and home with most power conference schools, but it looks like Lafayette has done so with W&W, so it can be done. We did it with UNH as well. I for one and probably most Lehigh fans would prefer a stronger schedule than this year, but to say that this years schedule is indicative of a typical Lehigh schedule is not true. I would prefer at least one power conference game every year, but the idea that we done single games at their place is BS.

[Twentysix]

"Money games" imply money above and beyond "breaking even" to be able to pay for things in the athletic department. Not that $150K is chopped liver, it's not. But it's not balancing the budgets, either. You can't equate a $400,000 payday from, say, Louisville and a $150,000 payday from NDSU, ASU, or Delaware. It's just not the same.

Now, if it's a $150,000 game for Lehigh to go to Delaware, that's a whole different animal. That's a bus trip, kids stay and practice on campus, and the athletic department gets money from that. But not a flight halfway across the country with an overnight stay.

But lehigh is a noncounter for FBS teams they wouldn't play you.

WCU seemed to be having no problem signing up to come across the country for less than 150k and no return game. I think you are probably wrong as ADs are signing up.


NDSU originally signed the contract with Western in late August of 2011 for 125,000, with a buyout of 150 K.

Not sure how much RMU recieved, but it was around or less than 150k. Can't find the article with the info atm.

[Engineer86]

Talley will not allow it. May change once we are full schollie. He does not want to risk another loss to what he views as a weak non schollie Ivy type team. To him no benefit to a win but embarrassing to lose to us again.

He did do the 2 for 1 in 2008-10.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would say that it is tough to get home and home with most power conference schools, but it looks like Lafayette has done so with W&W, so it can be done. We did it with UNH as well. I for one and probably most Lehigh fans would prefer a stronger schedule than this year, but to say that this years schedule is indicative of a typical Lehigh schedule is not true. I would prefer at least one power conference game every year, but the idea that we done single games at their place is BS.

+1. Also, people forget that most years Liberty is an 8-3 team and in the running for the playoffs. In a lot of ways, Lehigh is being victimized by Liberty's underperformance this year, coupled with their nightmare of an OOC schedule, with Wake and three playoff teams from last year.

Also, Liberty is still in the running for the playoffs, too, let's not forget. They could beat Stony Brook and CCU could falter against Chuck South.

[RichH2]

Talley will not allow it. May change once we are full schollie. He does not want to risk another loss to what he views as a weak non schollie Ivy type team. To him no benefit to a win but embarrassing to lose to us again.

[RichH2]

Talley will not allow it. May change once we are full schollie. He does not want to risk another loss to what he views as a weak non schollie Ivy type team. To him no benefit to a win but embarrassing to lose to us again.

[van]

typical Lehigh OCC schedule over recent years is 3 Ivy, 1 NEC, 1 scholarship conference. This year we had 2 NEC and 2 Ivy. Some years we have had 2 schorarship teams (UNH-Nova-Liberty). Had a series with Drake for several years.

Expect to keep 2 or 3 Ivys on the schedule as long as they are willing (traditional opponents)

Expect to continue with NEC, convenient, they seem willing to schedule and they are doable bus trips.

I believe Lehigh would love to have home and home with regional scholarship teams like Delaware and Nova, but are they willing? Maybe Stony Brook now that they are moviing.

I see an occasional "money game" in our future, hoping for Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, UMass and the like.

I would love to see an occasional SoCon team like Elon, Furman, Woffard for home and home arrangement, would they be willing?

[PAllen]

WCU seemed to be having no problem signing up to come across the country for less than 150k and no return game.

I am proud to say that Lehigh's program is not following the example of Western Carolina in any way!

[Twentysix]

I am proud to say that Lehigh's program is not following the example of Western Carolina in any way!

No doubt, the point was the fiscial choices of an AD vs the fiscial choices of a message board poster.

[LUHawker]

typical Lehigh OCC schedule over recent years is 3 Ivy, 1 NEC, 1 scholarship conference. This year we had 2 NEC and 2 Ivy. Some years we have had 2 schorarship teams (UNH-Nova-Liberty). Had a series with Drake for several years.

Expect to keep 2 or 3 Ivys on the schedule as long as they are willing (traditional opponents)

Expect to continue with NEC, convenient, they seem willing to schedule and they are doable bus trips.

I believe Lehigh would love to have home and home with regional scholarship teams like Delaware and Nova, but are they willing? Maybe Stony Brook now that they are moviing.

I see an occasional "money game" in our future, hoping for Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, UMass and the like.

I would love to see an occasional SoCon team like Elon, Furman, Woffard for home and home arrangement, would they be willing?

Lehigh also had Liberty this year. No one expected them to be down this year, so this is a pretty good OOC game.

[RichH2]

Apparently not with Socon. Been trying for years. Wofford only one that agreed and they still owe us a home game.

[Southsider]

Apparently not with Socon. Been trying for years. Wofford only one that agreed and they still owe us a home game.

Not so sure about that. Wofford was at Goodman in 1998.

[PAllen]

Not so sure about that. Wofford was at Goodman in 1998.

It was a 2 for 1 deal with the final return to Goodman in 2000 or 2001, but Wofford backed out to play a money game against Clemson. At the time, their AD said they'd like to make it up at a later date but he wasn't sure it would "fit" into future schedules. Honestly, I think the only thing that didn't "fit" was the a$$ whooping they took. It would be a much different series now though, but still a long way to make sense as a 1 for 1 for either school.

[Pard4Life]

Pards schedule is getting an upgrade... we play a 2-1 with Delaware in the coming years, and WM is a four-game series. So, we are playing Delaware and WM in one season. We are scheduling more NEC teams like Wagner and RMU. And, less Ivy games. We are maintaining games with Penn and Princeton from what I can see so far. I'd prefer an 4/5 year streak with Penn and a 2-1 series with Princeton, and Harvard every so often. Yale has been on the schedule much lately despite their historical infrequency. Cornell used to be in the rotation but we haven't seen them in awhile, and forget about Brown and Dartmouth. I think Columbia never wants to see us again. We played them nearly annually since the early 1960s, with the series never going dormant for more than two seasons.

[Pard4Life]

Also unmentioned is the possible games against FBS. Lafayette has been approached by Duke and Rutgers in past seasons, and we are always itching for a game at Army.

[Kramden]

The committee pretty much made its stand on this issue last season with Sam Houston State getting a No. 1 seed at 11-0, playing a very weak schedule, and also by giving Colgate a seed in 2003. Both of those teams were undefeated. Whether we agree with it, or not, the committee almost has to give Lehigh a seed with an 11-0 record

And both SHS and Colgate made it to the championship...................................... ...

[Pard4Life]

The committee pretty much made its stand on this issue last season with Sam Houston State getting a No. 1 seed at 11-0, playing a very weak schedule, and also by giving Colgate a seed in 2003. Both of those teams were undefeated. Whether we agree with it, or not, the committee almost has to give Lehigh a seed with an 11-0 record

And both SHS and Colgate made it to the championship...................................... ...

Colgate beat an FBS team, was 12-0, and was very highly ranked in all metrics like GPI. Colgate finished 10 in the regular season GPI. http://uncbears.com/sports/fball/spec-rel/112603aaa.html UMass was 8, so yes, you can see why they were upset. W. Illinois was 7 too. Ironically, Florida Atlantic was 16 and Colgate had to travel to Florida.

Lehigh is currently 36 in the latest GPI standings.

Sam Houston was #1 in the final regular season GPI. Their seed was justified.

[TheValleyRaider]

Colgate beat an FBS team, was 12-0, and was very highly ranked in all metrics like GPI. Colgate finished 10 in the regular season GPI. http://uncbears.com/sports/fball/spec-rel/112603aaa.html UMass was 8, so yes, you can see why they were upset. W. Illinois was 7 too. Ironically, Florida Atlantic was 16 and Colgate had to travel to Florida.

Lehigh is currently 36 in the latest GPI standings.

Sam Houston was #1 in the final regular season GPI. Their seed was justified.

Colgate's seed came on the basis of that unbeaten season, definitely aided as you point out by the I-A win, the extra game, and the fact that Lehigh (PL runner-up) was quite strong that season as well.

UMass complained, but then came to Hamilton unprepared as a result and got the outcome they deserved. We chose not to bid on the semifinal game (allegedly Biddle said something about treating the FAU trip as a "bowl game" or some kind of warm weather reward, but that could just be to cover for a cheap administration), which is why the semifinal was in Florida rather than Hamilton (and yes, it was still snowing that weekend)

[Twentysix]

Colgate beat an FBS team, was 12-0, and was very highly ranked in all metrics like GPI. Colgate finished 10 in the regular season GPI. http://uncbears.com/sports/fball/spec-rel/112603aaa.html UMass was 8, so yes, you can see why they were upset. W. Illinois was 7 too. Ironically, Florida Atlantic was 16 and Colgate had to travel to Florida.

Lehigh is currently 36 in the latest GPI standings.

Sam Houston was #1 in the final regular season GPI. Their seed was justified.

They also had an FBS win in their weak schedule. That definitly counts for something.

[Pard4Life]

They also had an FBS win in their weak schedule. That definitly counts for something.

The Patriot was not as "weak" as it has been in the past two seasons. They beat Fordham, which returned the triple threat that beat Northeastern in the FCS playoffs and nearly beat Villanova in round two. Lehigh's only losses were to an undefeated Penn and UConn. Buffalo, an FBS team.

[Engineer86]

Pards schedule is getting an upgrade... we play a 2-1 with Delaware in the coming years, and WM is a four-game series. So, we are playing Delaware and WM in one season. We are scheduling more NEC teams like Wagner and RMU. And, less Ivy games. We are maintaining games with Penn and Princeton from what I can see so far. I'd prefer an 4/5 year streak with Penn and a 2-1 series with Princeton, and Harvard every so often. Yale has been on the schedule much lately despite their historical infrequency. Cornell used to be in the rotation but we haven't seen them in awhile, and forget about Brown and Dartmouth. I think Columbia never wants to see us again. We played them nearly annually since the early 1960s, with the series never going dormant for more than two seasons.

I have to admit, I envy your upcoming schedule. Lehigh has to pick it up. I have not heard anything at all about our upcoming schedule.

[Twentysix]

The Patriot was not as "weak" as it has been in the past two seasons. They beat Fordham, which returned the triple threat that beat Northeastern in the FCS playoffs and nearly beat Villanova in round two. Lehigh's only losses were to an undefeated Penn and UConn. Buffalo, an FBS team.

I am talking about this game. The PL frat crew were making comparisons to SHSU getting a #1 seed.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=312670167

I am unsure if UTSA was FBS last season, if they were SHSU won 2 FBS games.

[Pard4Life]

I am talking about this game. The PL frat crew were making comparisons to SHSU getting a #1 seed.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=312670167

I am unsure if UTSA was FBS last season, if they were SHSU won 2 FBS games.

Ah, got it.

[Pard4Life]

I have to admit, I envy your upcoming schedule. Lehigh has to pick it up. I have not heard anything at all about our upcoming schedule.

You guys seem to release it in February, so it's a wait and see... We may regret that schedule if our lines do not improve, but I have a feeling they will.

[kalm]

typical Lehigh OCC schedule over recent years is 3 Ivy, 1 NEC, 1 scholarship conference. This year we had 2 NEC and 2 Ivy. Some years we have had 2 schorarship teams (UNH-Nova-Liberty). Had a series with Drake for several years.

Expect to keep 2 or 3 Ivys on the schedule as long as they are willing (traditional opponents)

Expect to continue with NEC, convenient, they seem willing to schedule and they are doable bus trips.

I believe Lehigh would love to have home and home with regional scholarship teams like Delaware and Nova, but are they willing? Maybe Stony Brook now that they are moviing.

I see an occasional "money game" in our future, hoping for Rutgers, Army, Navy, UConn, UMass and the like.

I would love to see an occasional SoCon team like Elon, Furman, Woffard for home and home arrangement, would they be willing?

Ummmm...you guys do know that teams are smacked for scheduling the Ivy's, NEC, PL etc....right? Just sayin'.

[PAllen]

Ummmm...you guys do know that teams are smacked for scheduling the Ivy's, NEC, PL etc....right? Just sayin'.

Ummmmm, we're in the PL, we've played the Ivy's for over a century, and we're surrounded by the NEC, so no, we won't be begging for an invite to the Big Sky any time soon.

[Pard4Life]

Ummmmm, we're in the PL, we've played the Ivy's for over a century, and we're surrounded by the NEC, so no, we won't be begging for an invite to the Big Sky any time soon.

Right, and the CAA is in our territory for OOC.

[RichH2]

PL challenges for scheduling are inherent in our location and our neighbors. While our schedules may only infrequently match the SOS of power confetences, it does not preclude good football . It is unlikely that they will substantially change. We all will have a few games each yr. As of now Pards leading the pack with some very good OOC games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I blame William & Mary for everything. If they were CAA champions after Lafayette beat them, the PL's conference ratings would be higher.

[CHIP72]

Ummmm...you guys do know that teams are smacked for scheduling the Ivy's, NEC, PL etc....right? Just sayin'.

Ummmm...you know that the Ivy League, like the Patriot League, is associated with academics, has no athletic scholarships, and has a similar footprint as the Patriot League, right? Unlike places like Eastern Washington that have more tumbleweeds than people, Patriot League schools can play nearby schools with similar university goals in sports. The Patriot League schools play the Ivy League schools extensively in many other sports too. Just sayin'.

[Engineer86]

PL challenges for scheduling are inherent in our location and our neighbors. While our schedules may only infrequently match the SOS of power confetences, it does not preclude good football . It is unlikely that they will substantially change. We all will have a few games each yr. As of now Pards leading the pack with some very good OOC games.

There are better levels of football and Lehigh in the 80's scheduled to that level with more Yankee (CAA) games than anything else, and Army and Navy. I am hopeful we can get back to that type of schedule witch scholarships. I do think it is tougher to schedule with the CAA than just making a phone call, but the Pards have been able to do it.

[Engineer86]

I blame William & Mary for everything. If they were CAA champions after Lafayette beat them, the PL's conference ratings would be higher.

Nah, that would only lead to even more bashing of the CAA. :D

[LUHawker]

There are better levels of football and Lehigh in the 80's scheduled to that level with more Yankee (CAA) games than anything else, and Army and Navy. I am hopeful we can get back to that type of schedule witch scholarships. I do think it is tougher to schedule with the CAA than just making a phone call, but the Pards have been able to do it.

We were doing it too. A 6-game series with Nova, a home-and-home with UNH and a game with UD back in '04. We added Liberty the last couple of years, so Lehigh's schedule has not been devoid of good competition.

[Doc QB]

There are better levels of football and Lehigh in the 80's scheduled to that level with more Yankee (CAA) games than anything else, and Army and Navy. I am hopeful we can get back to that type of schedule witch scholarships. I do think it is tougher to schedule with the CAA than just making a phone call, but the Pards have been able to do it.
Not just the 80's....in my time, '91 squad went 9-2 and beat N'eastern, W&M, UConn, UPenn OOC and lost 43-42 to full scholarship Holy Cross. The next two yrs had UNH, Delaware, Army, and Idaho in the Kibbie Dome. While I make no excuses for team's inconsistent play this year and has huge task ahead that may make this discussion all moot, our crap schedule this year is NOT the norm.