Patriot League preaseason poll announced..

[Pard4Life]

And the results are really not surprising..

1. Colgate (8)
2. Lafayette (3)
3. Lehigh (3)
4. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

POPY: Jordan Scott
PDPY:Geoff Bean
Special Teams: Micah Clukey

Once again... the league is tilted towards Colgate...

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

And the results are really not surprising..

1. Colgate (8)
2. Lafayette (3)
3. Lehigh (3)
4. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

POPY: Jordan Scott
PDPY:Geoff Bean
Special Teams: Micah Clukey

Once again... the league is tilted towards Colgate...

First time Lehigh isn't picked 1st or 2nd since 1998 i believe. That's aight though.......

[carney2]

FYI: The voting was done by the head coaches and the SIDs. No real surprises, with all 14 1st place votes (7 teams = 7 coaches + 7 SIDs) going to the "big 3." To me, Holy Cross is a bit misplaced at 4th, however.

[jimbo65]

And the results are really not surprising..

1. Colgate (8)
2. Lafayette (3)
3. Lehigh (3)
4. Holy Cross
5. Fordham
6. Bucknell
7. Georgetown

POPY: Jordan Scott
PDPY:Geoff Bean
Special Teams: Micah Clukey

Once again... the league is tilted towards Colgate...

No way Fordham finishes behind Holy Cross. We've beat them four years in a row including last year's horrendous 2-9 season. We will come in fourth, not that fourth is much of an achievement. I agree with the top three though perhaps not in that order. There is a chance that Fordham could move up to third, or a tie for third, but we would have to play to our ability, which hasn't occured since Coach Clawson left and one of the first three would need to falter somewhat. Amazing how the program could deteriorate in just two years. Granted there were extensive injuries last year but we went 6-5 the year before last with all the wins v. the weaker opponents. We hope Coach Masella will get us back on the right track. Not that he scheduled them but a few of the ooc games are "cupcakes" so he has an excellent chance at a 6-5 or 7-4 season.

[Pard4Life]

Yeah I agree that the bottom half of the league was a bit unusual. Georgetown is not a last-place team this year. That belongs to Bucknell... and Fordham is the 4th place team here...

[colgate13]

I'd be curious to see just how that Preseason Offensive and Defensive POY voting went. Scott? I think it's justifiable, just surprised to see the nod go to a sophomore. I wouldn't have been surprised to see someone like Threatt or Maurer get it either.

Defense surprised me too. Bean is awesome, no doubt. I thought that one of our talented d linemen from Lafayette or Lehigh could get it, or even Marcus Taylor at Fordham.

I won't complain. I just hope it holds. :)

[Fordham]

meh, I'm happy at 5th in the pre-season poll and given how we finished last year and the fact that we have a new staff and new systems to get used to, we should be happier we're not lower.

[colgate13]

meh, I'm happy at 5th in the pre-season poll and given how we finished last year and the fact that we have a new staff and new systems to get used to, we should be happier we're not lower.

Don't sandbag -you know Fordham's the sleeper this year. :nod:

[Pard4Life]

Don't sandbag -you know Fordham's the sleeper this year. :nod:

Ditto... and I'm not just following in-step with the authorized 13 account.

Fordham is selling his expectations low so he can cash in on the high W/L ratio this fall.. .

[Go...gate]

I agree - Fordham could certainly rebound this year. They have some good holdovers and newcomers and Masella knows how to get his guys to play the way they are capable.

[Fordham]

jeez, guys, what does a team have to do around here to lose some respect? we have a coaching staff change and got absolutely obliterated by Albany to end the season after having our hats handed to us in similar fashion by Lehigh prior to that. I think I unfortunately have a fertile & factual basis for my "sandbagging". Trust me, I think I had us near the top of last year's pre-season poll going in, so I'm more optimist than anything else. Just trying to 'keep it real' until we see how things start out in the first few weeks.

Also ... I love the way the new staff has come in and done things so far and I also love their track record at CCSU. However, I also feel that there's been this sort of slow move during the off-season to assume that this change has righted all previous wrongs with our team (or a bunch of them at least) when we just won't know until they actually put on pads. When they were first announced, everyone was just happy thinking that we were going to turn the program around in a few years but a few months later we're upset at being picked 4th and talking about being the most likely team to steal one from the Big 2 or Lehigh :D . Even though we have 3 key guys coming back for 5th years (not trying to downplay that), I just don't think enough has happened since the new staff was named to make us surprised or upset at being picked anywhere south of 4th.

Did you guys pick Appy St. as your pre-season #1?

[Ken_Z]

jeez, guys, what does a team have to do around here to lose some respect?

uhm. well i'd say a 1-10 season was pretty effective. according to most, our win over G'town will be an upset. and when we beat 'gate i half expect the world will stop turning.

[Fordham]

Thanks for the blueprint Ken.

;)

[Ken_Z]

Thanks for the blueprint Ken.

;)

i am here to help others. just make sure your guys understand the plan before the Bucknell game.

[Fordham]

if we follow the blueprint that'll be our 1 win this year.

[Ken_Z]

if we follow the blueprint that'll be our 1 win this year.

ouch. out foxed by Fordham twice in one day. time for a beer to get my thinking straightened out.

[Hansel]

And the results are really not surprising..

1. Colgate (8)
2. Lafayette (3)
3. Lehigh (3)


and everyone else

[Fordham]

it's all good, Ken. Bucknell is actually my sleeper this year. Just make sure your guys are sleeping during the Fordham game.

Cheers

[Pard4Life]

and everyone else

..this better not be leading to the equivelancy arguement again...

[Pard4Life]

Not to target anyone or even any idea specifically... it is staggering how short everyone's memory is... if Lafayette dosen't make the hurtin' grab... we go down as a one year wonder and an underdog this season...

Colgate and Lehigh have been this conference's force... but the Pards have been in the basement alot recently...

This is no three-team league... Fordham was a major competitor for several seasons and won the league... Bucknell almost broke through a few seasons.. when Towson was here it was even more uncertain who would win.. Essentially, everyone has had a shot except G'town and Holy Cross... and that is about to change. We are a very solid top to bottom league... last year was an anomaly... check the conference GPIs.

[LBPop]

Last year I made some comments that implied that I thought the Hoyas would surprise some folks. Then they pulled out that OT win at Bucknell and I practically drowned in the Kool Aid. Of course Holy Cross owned the Hoyas the following week and except for a couple of fortunate wins, it was the same old Georgetown.

This year I will make two predictions:


Georgetown will show up at every game (literally and figuratively)
I will too. :D

[colgate13]

Ken_Z continues to rock my world! Don't worry Ken, unless you plan on running the PL table, that one Colgate loss at the end of the season only means our PL title isn't a perfect 6-0. I'll take it. ;)

[DFW HOYA]

Thanks to the PL coaches and SID's. With 13 votes, every voter but one placed Georgetown last, and the other placed them at 6th.

The amount of disrespect other PL coaches show for Georgetown is really something. And when a few of these coaches have to explain to their weekly luncheon why they lost to Georgetown the week before, well...

[DFW HOYA]

I agree - Fordham could certainly rebound this year. They have some good holdovers and newcomers and Masella knows how to get his guys to play the way they are capable.

Can't the same be said for Georgetown? Yet, no one in the PL media ever puts Georgetown in that role.

:bang:

[Go...gate]

Can't the same be said for Georgetown? Yet, no one in the PL media ever puts Georgetown in that role.

:bang:

Gradually, yes. The talent level is going up, the facilities are vastly improved and GU is much closer to breaking through than they were in their first few years in the conference.

[kardplayer]

Thanks to the PL coaches and SID's. With 13 votes, every voter but one placed Georgetown last, and the other placed them at 6th.

The amount of disrespect other PL coaches show for Georgetown is really something. And when a few of these coaches have to explain to their weekly luncheon why they lost to Georgetown the week before, well...

If there were 13th last place votes, doesn't that mean either your coach or your SID voted you last too?

[Hansel]

If there were 13th last place votes, doesn't that mean either your coach or your SID voted you last too?
Oh Snap!

[DFW HOYA]

If there were 13th last place votes, doesn't that mean either your coach or your SID voted you last too?

Voters can't vote for your own team.

So, the votes went:

11 for 7th........11
1 for 6th...........2
Total...............13

A 4-7 team returns its top two QB's, its entire receiving corps, and the core of its defense, this for a team that finished 5th in the PL of 7, with a stronger coaching staff top to bottom.

The response? 7th place, or the presumption of a 0 or 1 win PL season, ranked even behind the two teams it beat in league play(Fordham, Bucknell).

Time to prove some people wrong.

[cosmo here]

A 4-7 team returns its top two QB's, its entire receiving corps, and the core of its defense, this for a team that finished 5th in the PL of 7, with a stronger coaching staff top to bottom.

I hope you didn't forget that the QBs and receiving corps helped Georgetown put up 10 points per game . . and Georgetown loses its top four tacklers from a defense that gave up 26.5 points per game.

The teams Georgetown beat last year . . Fordham brings back Prydatko and Taylor, and Bucknell was ravaged by injuries, playing Dante Ross at QB for the bulk of the year.

[DFW HOYA]

I hope you didn't forget that the QBs and receiving corps helped Georgetown put up 10 points per game . . and Georgetown loses its top four tacklers from a defense that gave up 26.5 points per game.

Georgetown lost its starting RB's before game one, including a 1000 yard rusher. One of its starting candidates for QB quit the team before the start of the season. Large chunks of its line were gone most of the season, and the OC's play calling was completely predictable, to say the least. I wouldn't blame the present QB or receivers for much of that.

Then again, this reiterates a point I made earlier--the online PL fan base expects other teams to reload after a bad season or from injuries, but doesn't give Georgetown the same expectation. If Bucknell or Fordham can turn it around, why shouldn't the Hoyas?

[cosmo here]

Georgetown lost its starting RB's before game one, including a 1000 yard rusher. One of its starting candidates for QB quit the team before the start of the season. Large chunks of its line were gone most of the season, and the OC's play calling was completely predictable, to say the least. I wouldn't blame the present QB or receivers for much of that.

Then again, this reiterates a point I made earlier--the online PL fan base expects other teams to reload after a bad season or from injuries, but doesn't give Georgetown the same expectation. If Bucknell or Fordham can turn it around, why shouldn't the Hoyas?

because Fordham and Bucknell have done it before, Georgetown hasn't.

[colgate13]

because Fordham and Bucknell have done it before, Georgetown hasn't.

My thoughts exactly. As you know I'm not a member of the press or anything, but I do think (and wrote so) that Georgetown should be higher than last place this year. :twocents:

As much as Ken_Z doesn't want to hear it, the team I'd be worried about is Bucknell. There could be some longer term rebuilding there IMO.

[Ken_Z]

Don't worry Ken, unless you plan on running the PL table, that one Colgate loss at the end of the season only means our PL title isn't a perfect 6-0. I'll take it. ;)

no prediction of a perfect 6-0 PL championship from me. i try to stick to realistic predictions. xlolx

[Ken_Z]

As much as Ken_Z doesn't want to hear it, the team I'd be worried about is Bucknell. There could be some longer term rebuilding there IMO.

boy, after the first sentence i thought you were beginning to see the light, then i read the last sentence. in all seriousness, which i generally shy away from, you certainly could be correct. i do think the team has a very good chance of exceeding the lowly expectations most are putting out there, but significant contributions from unproven players will be required to even move up to the middle of the PL.

[colgate13]

Looks like it's officially August! Ken_Z's toning down the talk! :)

[Ken_Z]

Looks like it's officially August! Ken_Z's toning down the talk! :)

darn it. i should not have deleted the last sentence i originally concluded that post with:

"however, our win against 'gate to end the season should give us the edge over the rest of the little 4."

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I was at PL Media day yesterday, and I wanted to let all the AGS posters know that I got audio of six of the seven teams (yes, DFW, including Georgetown :) ). I hope to get coach Gilmore of Holy Cross sometime later this week to complete the picture.

I won't give away too much, but I conducted a short interview to "introduce their school to the world". I interviewed a bunch of players and the head coaches. I'll be editing them this week and they will be appearing on I-AA Waves next Tuesday.

I may get a partial "transcript" of my Lehigh interviews and put it on my blog - that's a lunchtime endeavor :)

I also got Carolyn Femovich's openening statements. These were broadcast on yesterday's I-AA Waves - you can download that show and listen to them as well.

Overall, a fun, HOT day :)

[Pard4Life]

Georgetown lost its starting RB's before game one, including a 1000 yard rusher. One of its starting candidates for QB quit the team before the start of the season. Large chunks of its line were gone most of the season, and the OC's play calling was completely predictable, to say the least. I wouldn't blame the present QB or receivers for much of that.

Then again, this reiterates a point I made earlier--the online PL fan base expects other teams to reload after a bad season or from injuries, but doesn't give Georgetown the same expectation. If Bucknell or Fordham can turn it around, why shouldn't the Hoyas?

...and yet... Lafayette barely squeaks by the Hoyas... this year it is up in Easton for a change..

[LBPop]

If Bucknell or Fordham can turn it around, why shouldn't the Hoyas?

Hey DFW, you know how much I respect your knowledge and devotion to Georgetown. Your Hoya Saxa Blog is as good as it gets. Having said that, Georgetown has not earned the respect that you seek. With my "inside" connection, I could write a treatise on all the reasons that Georgetown should improve greatly. On paper, they should be much better this season. It means nothing.

The blunt truth is that since the Hoyas moved to the Patriot League, the program has greatly underachieved. Not one of their four wins last season was secure until the final whistle while they were out of a few games before halftime. The team knows that they must perform to get respect. Frankly, I think it's great that every national magazine (and the players read them all) picks Georgetown last this season. I hope that every team they play has already written a 'W' next to their date with Georgetown. When the season starts all this is just noise.

I will be watching the Hoyas scrimmages this summer and if a couple of questions are answered correctly, it should be a fun fall for Georgetown fans. Otherwise, I will just watch and keep my fingers crossed.

[jimbo65]

boy, after the first sentence i thought you were beginning to see the light, then i read the last sentence. in all seriousness, which i generally shy away from, you certainly could be correct. i do think the team has a very good chance of exceeding the lowly expectations most are putting out there, but significant contributions from unproven players will be required to even move up to the middle of the PL.

Question from a Fordham fan. Is it a coincidence that the surge in Bison basketball is accompanied by a downturn, putting it politely, in football. Or, somewhat like Fordham athletics, does your athletic department have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time i.e., concurrent success in two major sports and the effort it takes to get there is simply "out of their ability zone"?

[colgate13]

Question from a Fordham fan. Is it a coincidence that the surge in Bison basketball is accompanied by a downturn, putting it politely, in football. Or, somewhat like Fordham athletics, does your athletic department have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time i.e., concurrent success in two major sports and the effort it takes to get there is simply "out of their ability zone"?

In defense of Bucknell, they're a solid lax program as well - not sure if that's a major enough sport for you, but for a lax school, it is.

[ngineer]

Question from a Fordham fan. Is it a coincidence that the surge in Bison basketball is accompanied by a downturn, putting it politely, in football. Or, somewhat like Fordham athletics, does your athletic department have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time i.e., concurrent success in two major sports and the effort it takes to get there is simply "out of their ability zone"?

I see it more as a result of BU getting the jump on the scholarship wagon a few years back and it kicked in. Nothing to do with football.

[colgate13]

I see it more as a result of BU getting the jump on the scholarship wagon a few years back and it kicked in. Nothing to do with football.

So you're saying without basketball scholarships, both football AND basketball would be in the toilet? :confused:

Just trying to follow that connection.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm not so sure it's as simple as "scholarships = success". Do they help? Sure, but BU's success goes beyond that, since they're beating good teams on a regular basis.

It's pretty amazing that they've gone two years and had great b-ball success. It's this *third* year that will be the real test. That will prove if BU can stockpile talent year in and year out and replace Bettencourt and Brown (I think).

[carney2]

I see it more as a result of BU getting the jump on the scholarship wagon a few years back and it kicked in. Nothing to do with football.

At the risk of turning this into a basketball thread, I'll put in my :twocents: here. I'm not a big Pat Flannery fan. He is certainly competent and even above average as Patriot League coaches go. He is not the second coming, however. In addition to "getting a jump on the scholarship wagon," I think there was an element of blind luck involved. Flannery simply caught lightning in a bottle with that first scholarship class. To say that this is the result of hard work and excellent recruiting only tells part of the story. To do this well, coming out of nowhere - well, that leprechaun, Flannery, had to have picked himself a four leaf clover somewhere along the way.

[Ken_Z]

Question from a Fordham fan. Is it a coincidence that the surge in Bison basketball is accompanied by a downturn, putting it politely, in football. Or, somewhat like Fordham athletics, does your athletic department have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time i.e., concurrent success in two major sports and the effort it takes to get there is simply "out of their ability zone"?

i will say it is a coincidence wrt basketball and football. basketball is a function of scholarships and good coaching (talent evaluation and development). football was consistently competitive during the Gadd era, the recent decline is probably due to a combination of the shock of his disease and death, dramatic change in styles with the new staff, and an unusually large number of significant injuries in recent years.

i would give very high marks to the athletic administration as a whole. Bucknell has traditionally believed in and functioned under a model that college athletics are first and foremost about the participation and competitive experience. all sports should have the ability to compete effectively at the level (generally the PL) that we participate at. basketball could not do so without scholarships, hence, the decision was made to offer scholys. in recent years more resources have been put into basketball relative to others and that may continue given the level of success and recognition that has resulted.

i fully believe that football will be expected to compete successfully within the PL. as for increased resources, coach Jamieson (lacrosse, retired) spent the last year soliciting commitments to develop an endowment fund for lacrosse (last update about $1 million in contribs and commitments vs. an ultimate $1.5 million goal). he has been asked to take on a similar task on behalf of football this year.

[Go...gate]

Hey DFW, you know how much I respect your knowledge and devotion to Georgetown. Your Hoya Saxa Blog is as good as it gets. Having said that, Georgetown has not earned the respect that you seek. With my "inside" connection, I could write a treatise on all the reasons that Georgetown should improve greatly. On paper, they should be much better this season. It means nothing.

The blunt truth is that since the Hoyas moved to the Patriot League, the program has greatly underachieved. Not one of their four wins last season was secure until the final whistle while they were out of a few games before halftime. The team knows that they must perform to get respect. Frankly, I think it's great that every national magazine (and the players read them all) picks Georgetown last this season. I hope that every team they play has already written a 'W' next to their date with Georgetown. When the season starts all this is just noise.

I will be watching the Hoyas scrimmages this summer and if a couple of questions are answered correctly, it should be a fun fall for Georgetown fans. Otherwise, I will just watch and keep my fingers crossed.

The PL is pulling strongly for the success of Georgetown's program and this PL fan is rooting for you guys to get it turned around. :thumbsup:

[LBPop]

The PL is pulling strongly for the success of Georgetown's program and this PL fan is rooting for you guys to get it turned around. :thumbsup:
Thanks. It seems like the whole league wants the Hoyas to win all their games but one. Wonder why that is? :rolleyes: :D

[JoltinJoe]

I have nothing to add here but I couldn't let a PL thread go without saying something.

After last year, I just want to see the team on the field again and win some games. I have no predictions. I just want to see some "Ws" to make last year's misery go away.

[TheValleyRaider]

2003
Preseason #1-Fordham
Finish-3rd

2004
Preseason #1-Colgate
Finish-Tied for 3rd

2005
Preseason #1-Lehigh
Finish-3rd

2006
Preseason #1-Colgate
Finish-...:confused: :rotateh: :read:

Not that it really means anything, just thought it should be mentioned. Perhaps it's broken this year :cool:


BTW, Post #1,000!

[Fordham]

2003
Preseason #1-Fordham
Finish-3rd

2004
Preseason #1-Colgate
Finish-Tied for 3rd

2005
Preseason #1-Lehigh
Finish-3rd

2006
Preseason #1-Colgate
Finish-...:confused: :rotateh: :read:

Not that it really means anything, just thought it should be mentioned. Perhaps it's broken this year :cool:


BTW, Post #1,000!
wow, so Colgate's going to finish 4th this year, huh?

http://www.fraterslibertas.com/Images/Separated/dumb.jpg

[carney2]

Thanks. It seems like the whole league wants the Hoyas to win all their games but one. Wonder why that is? :rolleyes: :D

What we "want" is a partner in this football thing who gives it an honest effort. Kelly is possibly a step in the right direction, so now how about some real facilities and some administrative support?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What we "want" is a partner in this football thing who gives it an honest effort. Kelly is possibly a step in the right direction, so now how about some real facilities and some administrative support?

New facility in 2004
AD from Notre Dame
Head Coach from Navy's staff

I dunno, it seems like they have been supporting their program pretty darn well as of late :confused:

[Fordham]

I think DFW Hoya would remind us that the facility is completely funded by alumn & other fund raising v. a commitment from the university. That said, the other 2 points are definitely valid in terms of the personnel additions.

[colgate13]

Guys, lets call a spade a spade. We all want Georgetown to fund their program at probably 3 times the level they are now.

Be careful what you wish for though. IMO a Georgetown program at that level can win big. :twocents:

[carney2]

Guys, lets call a spade a spade. We all want Georgetown to fund their program at probably 3 times the level they are now.

Be careful what you wish for though. IMO a Georgetown program at that level can win big. :twocents:


Substitute would for the hi-lited word above. Georgetown has the potential to be the highest visibility football program in the Patriot League.

[LBPop]

What we "want" is a partner in this football thing who gives it an honest effort. Kelly is possibly a step in the right direction, so now how about some real facilities and some administrative support?

Whoa there, my friend. Please don't mistake poor results for poor effort. While the money at Georgetown doesn't match up to PL standards, I'm not sure that the difference in the talent pool is as great. Some mistakes have been made with the Hoya football program so the changes in management might just have a positive impact. Also, while I have openly been underwhelmed by last year's team, they did in fact defeat Bucknell and Fordham. That should count for something.

[colgate13]

Substitute would for the hi-lited word above. Georgetown has the potential to be the highest visibility football program in the Patriot League.

I see where you're going, but think it is a little more uncertain than that. The football tradition of some other PL schools would still overshadow Georgetown for a while. If the Hoyas won consistently, then I think you could combine that with the basektball cache and you're in business.

[Go...gate]

It took Fordham a while (over a decade) and they became a fully competitive and contending program in the PL. It will happen as well for Georgetown. The new facility has to help. Has other work taken place on the facility since the end of the 2005 season?

[LBPop]

Speaking only as a two year Georgetown fan, I appreciate some of the positive sentiment being expressed here. I believe I can say with some authority that the vast majority (if not all) of the players understand that repect is earned. If they do their jobs, within a few months there will be no need for anyone to defend the Hoyas. That's how it should be and I am anxiously waiting to see if they step up.

On a related note, I have finalized my plans and I look forward to my first visits to Hamilton and Easton. Then I will have visited all of the PL fields and I wouldn't mind saying hello to an AGS fan or two. So this season you can assume that if Georgetown is in town, so is Pop. :p

[TheValleyRaider]

wow, so Colgate's going to finish 4th this year, huh?

http://www.fraterslibertas.com/Images/Separated/dumb.jpg

That's right, pay no attention to the bullseye on our back :thumbsup:

[colgate13]

Ah, Lehigh's done the preseason first to title - no reason why it can't be done. It's just very competitive at the top - put LU/LC/CU names in a hat, pull one out, and I'd venture you'd have just as good as any chance to pick the winner this year.

[Pard4Life]

Ah, Lehigh's done the preseason first to title - no reason why it can't be done. It's just very competitive at the top - put LU/LC/CU names in a hat, pull one out, and I'd venture you'd have just as good as any chance to pick the winner this year.

I guess we are referring to Lehigh 2001 as the last team to be picked first and finish first. They were picked in 2002 and finished fourth behind Fordham, Colgate, and Lafayette. I don't believe in the hex, it's just a coincedental pattern.. we all know they have an outstanding chance to win it this year.. and of course the Pards will have alot to say about that. Even if Lafayette does win it this year, we likely won't be picked for first next year.... new QB, DL, OL.