Patriot League Pick 'em - Week 4

[carney2]

Even though it’s only September, we are looking at the League opener. Someone will be in first place by Saturday evening.

Week 4, September 21 & 22, 2012:

Friday, September 21, 2012:

GEORGETOWN @ Princeton

Saturday, September 22, 2012:

LAFAYETTE @ BUCKNELL
FORDHAM @ Columbia
Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Stony Brook
LEHIGH @ Liberty

The Patriot League is 11-7 Year-to-Date vs. OOC:

4-3 in Week 3:
vs. CAA 1-3
vs. D-2 1-0
vs. Ivy 3-2
vs. MVC 0-1
vs. NEC 4-1
vs. PFL 2-0


STANDINGS:
(Patriot League W-L is listed first, followed by overall W-L)
(These are not the “official” standings because Fordham is included.)

Lehigh 0-0, 3-0
Lafayette 0-0, 2-0
Fordham* 0-0, 2-1
Georgetown 0-0, 2-1
Bucknell 0-0, 1-1
Colgate 0-0, 1-2
Holy Cross 0-0, 0-2

*Ineligible for League championship and auto-bid.

[Pard4Life]

Holy Cross looks ugly and was surprised by the Gtown loss.

[Pard4Life]

What we learned: LFN needs to do some self-evaluation and reflection after this week... Princeton 3, Lafayette 6 when we scored 14pts the first four minutes of the game. JMU beating West Viriginia. Maybe that mplsbison comment is true on his signature...

[RichH2]

I think I'll make picks rather than snarky comments.
LC over BU
FU over Col
HC over Dart
SB over Gate
LU over Lib strictly a fan vote. As of right now dont think we can.
OOPS.
Hoyas over PU.

[Sader87]

Even though it’s only September, we are looking at the League opener. Someone will be in first place by Saturday evening.

Week 4, September 21 & 22, 2012:

Friday, September 21, 2012:

GEORGETOWN @ Princeton

Saturday, September 22, 2012:

LAFAYETTE @ BUCKNELL
FORDHAM @ Columbia
Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Stony Brook
LEHIGH @ Liberty

The Patriot League is 10-8 Year-to-Date vs. OOC:

3-4 in Week 3:
vs. CAA 1-3
vs. D-2 1-0
vs. Ivy 2-3
vs. MVC 0-1
vs. NEC 4-1
vs. PFL 2-0


STANDINGS:
(Patriot League W-L is listed first, followed by overall W-L)
(These are not the “official” standings because Fordham is included.)

Lehigh 0-0, 3-0
Lafayette 0-0, 2-0
Georgetown 0-0, 2-1
Bucknell 0-0, 1-1
Colgate 0-0, 1-2
Fordham* 0-0, 1-2
Holy Cross 0-0, 0-2

*Ineligible for League championship and auto-bid.

We didn't do our part Carney but the PL was 4-3 this week and 3-2 against the Ancient VIII

[Pard4Life]

I believe the snarky comments will continue.

This week: AngryLeppard Revenge Tour Game #1, Bucknell... the real question is: what will Bogie's avatar be this week?

Pards outdrew Lehigh by 1000 fans... and who has 6 wins in the last two years?

[RichH2]

Thanks Babar. A recurring senior moment. Expect you and Pards have and even lower scoring game. Of course, that means a triple OT 54-52 game.

[ramMan]

Even though it’s only September, we are looking at the League opener. Someone will be in first place by Saturday evening.

STANDINGS:

Lehigh 0-0, 3-0
Lafayette 0-0, 2-0
Georgetown 0-0, 2-1
Bucknell 0-0, 1-1
Colgate 0-0, 1-2
Fordham* 0-0, 1-2
Holy Cross 0-0, 0-2


Hey carney, Fordham is 2-1. (Hard to believe after the miserable season we had last year.)

[dystopiamembrane]

1. Lehigh
2. Lafayette
3. Colgate
4. Bucknell
5. Georgetown
6. Holy Cross
7. Fordham

Georgetown 20-23 Princeton
Lafayette 23-17 Bucknell
Colgate 24-34 Stony Brook
Fordham 17-22 Columbia
Dartmouth 24-21 Holy Cross
Lehigh 24-19 Liberty

[van]

I believe the snarky comments will continue.

This week: AngryLeppard Revenge Tour Game #1, Bucknell... the real question is: what will Bogie's avatar be this week?

Pards outdrew Lehigh by 1000 fans... and who has 6 wins in the last two years?

How many were from Penn, Princeton did not travel well. Can't blame 'em, after seeing their band!

[Pard4Life]

Much less than I would have anticipated. Looked like mainly family and friends plus the band and cheerleaders. I'd put their contingent a little bigger than Princeton's. It felt like there were more than 8400 though. Penn is a quick ride and it's too bad they couldn't bring more fans.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Much less than I would have anticipated. Looked like mainly family and friends plus the band and cheerleaders. I'd put their contingent a little bigger than Princeton's. It felt like there were more than 8400 though. Penn is a quick ride and it's too bad they couldn't bring more fans.

I'm pretty sure schools have been skewing the numbers for a few years now. Jokes aside, the figures given at Lehigh games anymore don't add up. In the past, a basically full home side + a decent bank crowd + plus a small cluster on the away side meant 10k. Now it's 6,500. I don't get it.

[PAllen]

GEORGETOWN @ Princeton

LAFAYETTE @ BUCKNELL
FORDHAM @ Columbia
Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS
COLGATE @ Stony Brook
LEHIGH @ Liberty

[carney2]

We didn't do our part Carney but the PL was 4-3 this week and 3-2 against the Ancient VIII

Right you are. Somehow I had Cornell over Fordham. Corrections made. Thank you.

[carney2]

Hey carney, Fordham is 2-1. (Hard to believe after the miserable season we had last year.)

Apologies and corrected. See post #15 to this thread.

[carney2]

Much less than I would have anticipated. Looked like mainly family and friends plus the band and cheerleaders. I'd put their contingent a little bigger than Princeton's. It felt like there were more than 8400 though. Penn is a quick ride and it's too bad they couldn't bring more fans.

I was disappointed with both "crowds." Great weather and two home teams with reasonable prospects for the season.

And, concurring with an earlier comment, the Princeton "band" is a disgrace, both to the University and to bands everywhere. They "entertain" only themselves and I can't understand even that.

[Sader87]

I was disappointed with both "crowds." Great weather and two home teams with reasonable prospects for the season.

And, concurring with an earlier comment, the Princeton "band" is a disgrace, both to the University and to bands everywhere. They "entertain" only themselves and I can't understand even that.

Been tilting at windmills on this for awhile now....I just don't think we'll see crowds of 10,000+ for PL or IL games much anymore unless it's an "event" type game i.e. Harvard-Yale, LU-LC or a night contest against an attractive opponent. The world has changed for better or worse.

[carney2]

GEORGETOWN @ Princeton – A coin toss game from where I’m sitting. Disappointed in the Hoya loss to Eli. Tigger is going absolutely nowhere with Michelsen at QB. These two might just push each other around for 60 minutes for no apparent reason.

LAFAYETTE @ BUCKNELL – No. 90 in this series. A must win for Lafayette who has stumbled onto some aspirations after being picked as a bottom feeder in the preseason.

FORDHAM @ Columbia – Other than Marist, name 5 teams that Columbia could beat. That’s a toughie, isn’t it?

Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS – The Indians just aren’t that good. How about the ‘saders?

COLGATE @ Stony Brook – Nolo contendere, if you know what I mean.

LEHIGH @ Liberty – Probably not the usual cupcake for the Squawks, but… This game looked like a major hurdle only two weeks ago. Now the Flames look quite ordinary, as do the Foul Fowl. Going with the FeatherHeads who have more to lose.

[Pard4Life]

Week 3: What we learned...

Bucknell... Bison can play redzone defense but offense needs to develop on OL
Colgate... again, offense, but defense needs work
Georgetown... do the Yalies have their number?
Holy Cross... panic time in Worcester?
Lafayette... aggressive defense, but not aggressive for 60 minutes, and Frankosaurus lives!
Lehigh... do they only play for 30 minutes? Still a work in progress, errors, penalties galore.
LFN... picks have no credibility

[Pard4Life]

I was disappointed with both "crowds." Great weather and two home teams with reasonable prospects for the season.

And, concurring with an earlier comment, the Princeton "band" is a disgrace, both to the University and to bands everywhere. They "entertain" only themselves and I can't understand even that.

Been tilting at windmills on this for awhile now....I just don't think we'll see crowds of 10,000+ for PL or IL games much anymore unless it's an "event" type game i.e. Harvard-Yale, LU-LC or a night contest against an attractive opponent. The world has changed for better or worse.

I recant my earlier comments... our crowd was great! A bunch of students turned out for the game, and not just a sports team or two... like actual students, probably 150-200.. cheering and enthusiastic throughout. We've had comparable attendance numbers, but it's usually quiet like a polo match. Crowd was more into it than usual.

[jimbo65]

Last week had them all correct except for HC.

Lafayette
Fordham Our placekicker is pro caliber. Kicked two fgs and not one kickoff was returned. Earlier this season kicked a 50 & a 52 yard fg.
HC
Stony Brook Gave Cuse a real battle
Lehigh
GTown, shaky but I pick them

[Sader87]

Attendance figures (per ESPN) for Week 3 games played at a PL site:

1. Lafayette 8,376 (night game)
2. Lehigh 7,346
3. Fordham 6,087
4. Holy Cross 5,684
5. Colgate 5,384
6. Georgetown 2,689

[carney2]

Attendance figures (per ESPN) for Week 3 games played at a PL site:

1. Lafayette 8,376 (night game)
2. Lehigh 7,346
3. Fordham 6,087
4. Holy Cross 5,684
5. Colgate 5,384
6. Georgetown 2,689

Correction for Lehigh: 7,346 1/2. Pard4Life showed up at halftime so that he could walk in without contributing any $$ to the evil, conniving, cheating athletic forces on Squawk Mountain.

[DFW HOYA]

Another oversold crowd at Division I's smallest stadium. Now, if we could just get some more seats...

http://georgetownfootball.blogspot.com/2012/09/home-improvement.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Pards outdrew Lehigh by 1000 fans... and who has 6 wins in the last two years?

Penn travels. Princeton doesn't.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LFN... picks have no credibility

I'll be the first to admit that I had a rough week last week. But I'll be back this week. Mark my words.

[LUHawker]

Attendance figures (per ESPN) for Week 3 games played at a PL site:

1. Lafayette 8,376 (night game)
2. Lehigh 7,346
3. Fordham 6,087
4. Holy Cross 5,684
5. Colgate 5,384
6. Georgetown 2,689

The night game matters in September as an attendance draw. Lehigh's attendance figures have been markedly down since they moved that the 12:30pm start time from 1:00pm. At that hour and for those traveling, that extra half hour matters.

On to the picks:

Bucknell over the Pards. Pards come back to reality when not receiving 7 ints.
Lehigh over Liberty. Offense comes to play for a full game.
Dartmouth over HC. I asked all preseason what everyone saw in HC this year and I heard crickets. Now I now why.
Fordham smokes Columbia
Stony Brook shows Colgate what a real running game looks like, plus defense.
GTown underwhelmed and Princeton will prove to be a gamer this year, so this is a tough pick, but I am going with the Tigers.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I have a new philosophy about home attendance, after kvetching about it for the better part of a decade. Filling the stadium isn't as important as having good home fans that turn out for games. Lehigh seems to get a decent core of about 5,000-6,000 people and maybe 500 or more students (including band, etc.) that fairly consistently show up for games, now that Lehigh is winning. It makes for a really good gameday atmosphere. But you can't get more than 10,000 at a Lehigh game unless 4,000 people make the trip. A school like Liberty or Delaware will deliver crowds like that, but no other Northeast school will. No Ivy League school will for sure.

I tend to agree that the 12:30 start time really holds things back in terms of getting to the game. Tailgating sort-of starts at 10, and by noon, you have to break down your tailgate. Many now just stick around after the game and tailgate then, but it's not the same. Even opening things at 9:30 and kicking off at 1 would attract more people to Goodman, IMO. I'm also a big advocate of simply trying one 3:00 or 4:00 game with some portable lights. I bet it would eclipse 10,000 with the right opponent.

[Franks Tanks]

Penn travels. Princeton doesn't.

Grasping at straws.

Penn and Princeton are both close, and really have a similar fan base. It's not like we hosted Ohio State.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I have a new philosophy about home attendance, after kvetching about it for the better part of a decade. Filling the stadium isn't as important as having good home fans that turn out for games. Lehigh seems to get a decent core of about 5,000-6,000 people and maybe 500 or more students (including band, etc.) that fairly consistently show up for games, now that Lehigh is winning. It makes for a really good gameday atmosphere. But you can't get more than 10,000 at a Lehigh game unless 4,000 people make the trip. A school like Liberty or Delaware will deliver crowds like that, but no other Northeast school will. No Ivy League school will for sure.

I tend to agree that the 12:30 start time really holds things back in terms of getting to the game. Tailgating sort-of starts at 10, and by noon, you have to break down your tailgate. Many now just stick around after the game and tailgate then, but it's not the same. Even opening things at 9:30 and kicking off at 1 would attract more people to Goodman, IMO. I'm also a big advocate of simply trying one 3:00 or 4:00 game with some portable lights. I bet it would eclipse 10,000 with the right opponent.

They absolutely need to put in lights imo. The early season games can be brutal in the heat. Plus, you need to have lights to host playoff games these days imo.

[Franks Tanks]

The night game matters in September as an attendance draw. Lehigh's attendance figures have been markedly down since they moved that the 12:30pm start time from 1:00pm. At that hour and for those traveling, that extra half hour matters.

On to the picks:

Bucknell over the Pards. Pards come back to reality when not receiving 7 ints.Lehigh over Liberty. Offense comes to play for a full game.
Dartmouth over HC. I asked all preseason what everyone saw in HC this year and I heard crickets. Now I now why.
Fordham smokes Columbia
Stony Brook shows Colgate what a real running game looks like, plus defense.
GTown underwhelmed and Princeton will prove to be a gamer this year, so this is a tough pick, but I am going with the Tigers.

The reality is that the Pards are damm good. The Leopard D earned those 7 ints, and we were up 21-0 when people were still finding their seats.

BTW who needed an int to beat Monmouth in the final seconds?

[DFW HOYA]

These numbers appear poor, in part and not a swipe to any teams on its schedule, because the games are not attractive to the average fan. If one never went to Lehigh and never went to (pick one: Bucknell, Princeton, Georgetown, et al.), what's the incentive to put down the remote and go see the game?

The Lehigh Valley isn't Loretto or Hamilton where the local population can't turn out to fill the stadium. Three solutions:

1. Promote the game so much that locals want to be a part of the action.
2. Get better non-conference opponents from a road attendance standpoint (CAA, maybe even an eastern MAC or C-USA school on a 2-1 deal).
3. Night football in September.

If Lehigh isn't drawing more than 6,000 in the good times, what is going to happen in the lean years?

[RichH2]

No ,PU hasnt traveled well in years. Penn and night better crowd. A quibble really. Goodman crowd was lively and it was a great afternoon even tho team stayed in the lockerroom for the 3rd period. Takes nothing away from LC game. Nice that you had great crowd also.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Lehigh draws poorly because, in part and not a swipe to any teams on its schedule, the games are not attractive to the average fan. If one never went to Lehigh and never went to (pick one: Bucknell, Princeton, Georgetown, et al.), what's the incentive?

The solutions are three:

1. Promote the game locally so much that locals want to be a part of the action.

2. Get better non-conference opponents from an road attendance standpoint.

3. Night football in September.

If Lehigh can't draw more than 6,000 in the good times, what happens in lean years?

Lehigh has, historically, drawn very well. The low attendance figures are something that really only started appearing in the last 4-5 years imo. In the late 90's, early 00's Colgate at home was a guaranteed 12k+. Heck, Bucknell in 2000 sold out, 16k+. I'm not sure if Lehigh averaged less than 10k the first 20 years of Goodman.

I still think there's some shenanigans going on with the counting. The HC figure from last year was, and still is a joke.

Lehigh still travels excellent. Very few FCS teams in the northeast bring as many fans to roadies as Lehigh.

[DFW HOYA]

I still think there's some shenanigans going on with the counting. The HC figure from last year was, and still is a joke.

Do PL teams split the gate?

[Franks Tanks]

Lehigh has, historically, drawn very well. The low attendance figures are something that really only started appearing in the last 4-5 years imo. In the late 90's, early 00's Colgate at home was a guaranteed 12k+. Heck, Bucknell in 2000 sold out, 16k+. I'm not sure if Lehigh averaged less than 10k the first 20 years of Goodman.

I still think there's some shenanigans going on with the counting. The HC figure from last year was, and still is a joke.

What possible reason would Lehigh have to under report attendance? When you have a 2/3 full home side, 1k on the away side and a few hundred people walking around you get 6-7k people as reported.

[Bill]

About lights and Lehigh -

I have wondered for years about lights at Goodman, and believed it could be done relatively easily (if LU ever spent money, that is). However, I had a conversation with Sterrett about this in the early 00's, and he let me know the department had looked into it - but due to the bowl shape and stands, the cost for TV quality lights would be ridiculous - as in the million dollar range! Not sure how the technology has changed since then, but definitely a limiting factor....

[crusader11]

About lights and Lehigh -

I have wondered for years about lights at Goodman, and believed it could be done relatively easily (if LU ever spent money, that is). However, I had a conversation with Sterrett about this in the early 00's, and he let me know the department had looked into it - but due to the bowl shape and stands, the cost for TV quality lights would be ridiculous - as in the million dollar range! Not sure how the technology has changed since then, but definitely a limiting factor....

Interesting.

I know that when Holy Cross rented lights last year and this year, it cost $50,000 per time to do it.

[Bill]

About attendance - has anyone looked into the student #'s? For example, because of weather, were classes held some Saturdays last year? What about strict tailgate policies for students...difficulties getting to/from the game sober? I have been to very few games since Pete Lembo left - but I remember at least a 1000 students a game on a BAD week...The grass area behind the endzone used to be full....

I live about an hour from Lehigh now, but I remember almost zero marketing for games...there is nothing in the regional media about it.

[LUHawker]

The reality is that the Pards are damm good. The Leopard D earned those 7 ints, and we were up 21-0 when people were still finding their seats.

BTW who needed an int to beat Monmouth in the final seconds?

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed the memo that after two Piss-poor seasons, we should all immediately buy into "the Pards are damn good". Or maybe, we should not count wins because they were only secured in the final seconds. If 7 interceptions reflects how "good" the Pards are, what does that really say about Penn?

Two nice wins for the Pards for sure, both of which were hardly predicted by anyone.

Heck, the way you say it, you would think you guys were the team with two playoff wins in the last two years.

[Ivytalk]

GEORGETOWN @ Princeton – A coin toss game from where I’m sitting. Disappointed in the Hoya loss to Eli. Tigger is going absolutely nowhere with Michelsen at QB. These two might just push each other around for 60 minutes for no apparent reason.

LAFAYETTE @ BUCKNELL – No. 90 in this series. A must win for Lafayette who has stumbled onto some aspirations after being picked as a bottom feeder in the preseason.

FORDHAM @ Columbia – Other than Marist, name 5 teams that Columbia could beat. That’s a toughie, isn’t it?

Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS – The Indians just aren’t that good. How about the ‘saders?

COLGATE @ Stony Brook – Nolo contendere, if you know what I mean.

LEHIGH @ Liberty – Probably not the usual cupcake for the Squawks, but… This game looked like a major hurdle only two weeks ago. Now the Flames look quite ordinary, as do the Foul Fowl. Going with the FeatherHeads who have more to lose.

Agreed, except I pick the Falwells over Lehigh by a Holy Field Goal.xangelx

[Franks Tanks]

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have missed the memo that after two Piss-poor seasons, we should all immediately buy into "the Pards are damn good". Or maybe, we should not count wins because they were only secured in the final seconds. If 7 interceptions reflects how "good" the Pards are, what does that really say about Penn?

Two nice wins for the Pards for sure, both of which were hardly predicted by anyone.

Heck, the way you say it, you would think you guys were the team with two playoff wins in the last two years.

Wow, you were the one adding qualifers to a win genius. You basically discounted the Lafayette win because Penn had a bunch of turnovers.

Yes 7 interceptions in one game is highly unusual, but OUR defense did a great job making plays and confusing the QB to cause many of the ints. Our secondary was all over the place despite missing a starter. I pointed out that Lehigh secured a win over Monmouth because of a last minute interception, so it can be said Lehigh only won that game because of an interception. See how that sounds?

I can't wait until Colvin and his wounded ducks meet the Lafayette secondary.

[RichH2]

Flames will be hard for inconsistent LU. If we play entire game a close win.

[TheValleyRaider]

5-2 last weekend, up to 13-5 for the season. Not sure what to do with a lot of these games, so naturally, let's pick 'em

Friday, September 21, 2012
Georgetown at Princeton Princeton It is with great hesitancy that I take the Tigers this weekend, but a game effort in Bethlehem has me believing in their competence this season. Georgetown, on the other hand, fell in a close one at home to Yale. Not sure which of Princeton/Yale will be better in the long run, but with the Hoyas now going on the road, I think they hit .500 this week

Saturday, September 22, 2012
Lafayette at Bucknell Lafayette Are the Pards really for real? Bucknell sounded game, but overmatched at Delaware, but I'm not sure that's enough for me to slot them past one of the League's unbeatens. Lafayette gets sole possession of first for now, though as usual I'm waiting for the other spotted shoe to drop

Fordham at Columbia Fordham Good on Fordham for outlasting Big Red at home. Now for the cross-town rivals, with Columbia still looking like....Columbia. Still not sure about Fordham overall, but if they're going to be even halfway decent, they should step up and knock-off the Lions

Dartmouth at Holy Cross Holy Cross The Crusaders are scuffling, blowing a late lead to Brown. Bruno and Dartmouth look like the great undifferentiated mass in the Ivy League middle, the Green resurrection under Teevens still not quite there. I guess the Cross rights the ship this week, at least for the timebeing, though their status as a PL contender is leaning towards "not" at the moment

Colgate at Stony Brook Colgate First of two PL-Big South matchups for the weekend. While it was nice to get a win under our belts, it's back on the road again, this time at what I believe to be an underrated Seawolves team. Whatever adjustments the defense made in the second half on Saturday, it would be nice to see that kind of play continue. Looks like we're going to need the offense to try and keep pace, so as long as we can avoid having any more punts blocked, we may make a fist of it

Lehigh at Liberty Lehigh Straight conference homer pick here. Not that I don't believe in Lehigh, though at this point I'm not really sold on the Hawks, it's more that I'm not sure about the Flames. They do not appear to be the same caliber of team as some of their more recent vintages that challenged for playoff births, though have certainly faced challenges with trips to Wake Forest and Montana already past. The PL seems to have some good fortune against Liberty, so I'll lean towards that kind of history repeating

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Flames will be hard for inconsistent LU. If we play entire game a close win.

I really like LU's front 7 against the Liberty OL. I think they can get consistent pressure on the QB and shut down the Flame run game. On the flip side, the Liberty defense is very solid. Lehigh will have to be balanced on offense and allow Colvin to take a few shots deep. A long INT down field can be just as good as a punt. I have a feeling you'll see some wrinkles in the offense that have been kept under wraps these first 3 games.

[RichH2]

Owl
You may be right. Dave has run a pretty vanilla O so far. Our D will be good. We cant afford to take 3rd off.

[Bogus Megapardus]

These numbers appear poor, in part and not a swipe to any teams on its schedule, because the games are not attractive to the average fan.

Hmmm . . . not so sure I'd rate it as "poor," at least in Lafayette's case. I know that 8,500 +/- won't even register with the larger/southern/state FCS schools. But anyone who was at the Lafayette/Penn game Saturday night was part of a pretty nice football atmosphere with what seemed to most to be an ample and enthusiastic crowd. It was a mixture of students, local fans, high schoolers and alums from young to old. It helped that the weather was ideal.

If this is the best that the PL can do in a early season OOC game for a team that has struggled mightily over the last several years, on the whole I'd say I would be pleased. Again, Lafayette is drawing well over three times its entire student population. Perhaps it isn't an overflow sellout for every game, but it'll certainly do.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Hmmm . . . not so sure I'd rate it as "poor," at least in Lafayette's case. I know that 8,500 +/- won't even register with the larger/southern/state FCS schools. But anyone who was at the Lafayette/Penn game Saturday night was part of a pretty nice football atmosphere with what seemed to most to be an ample and enthusiastic crowd. It was a mixture of students, local fans, high schoolers and alums from young to old. It helped that the weather was ideal.

If this is the best that the PL can do in a early season OOC game for a team that has struggled mightily over the last several years, on the whole I'd say I would be pleased. Again, Lafayette is drawing well over three times its entire student population. Perhaps it isn't an overflow sellout for every game, but it'll certainly do.

+1. Likewise with Lehigh - a pretty nice football atmosphere, with a decent home-side crowd. An issue is the lack of travel support from the visiting side, but it's not germane to an enjoyable home crowd atmosphere.

Of course, in 2024, when the Ivy League presidents finally allow their schools to compete in the FCS playoffs, visiting attendance will boom.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

About lights and Lehigh -

I have wondered for years about lights at Goodman, and believed it could be done relatively easily (if LU ever spent money, that is). However, I had a conversation with Sterrett about this in the early 00's, and he let me know the department had looked into it - but due to the bowl shape and stands, the cost for TV quality lights would be ridiculous - as in the million dollar range! Not sure how the technology has changed since then, but definitely a limiting factor....


Interesting.

I know that when Holy Cross rented lights last year and this year, it cost $50,000 per time to do it.

The more I'm around night games, the more I think an occasional night game in September, or even a 3:30 kickoff, would really be something to get the Valley excited. You might even have a chance to get the whole game in if you started at 3:30. There are a lot of compelling reasons for doing this.

[carney2]

I leave for a few hours and the lunatic fringe takes over.

LFN tells us that a "crowd" of a couple hundred real fans beats 12,000-13,000 any old day.

LFN again (hey, he might just BE the lunatic fringe): Penn travels well. Princeton doesn't. I was at both games and sat on the home side both times. IF there were more in the visiting stands at Fisher than there were at Badman, it wasn't by much.

Someone else, not LFN, but I think he agreed: Moving the kickoff from 1:00 to 12:30 really reduces attendance. I realize that I don't have a Lehigh education and I might be off here, but I'm calculating that change as 30 minutes. 30 freakin' minutes! Get real.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I leave for a few hours and the lunatic fringe takes over.

As always, I take that as a compliment.


LFN tells us that a "crowd" of a couple hundred real fans beats 12,000-13,000 any old day.

I didn't say that. I said that getting a decent sized troop of home fans is more important than kvetching about the "good old days" when we used to get 12,000 for home games. File this under the heading of: times have changed, adapt. Not that smaller crowds are better than big crowds.


LFN again (hey, he might just BE the lunatic fringe): Penn travels well. Princeton doesn't. I was at both games and sat on the home side both times. IF there were more in the visiting stands at Fisher than there were at Badman, it wasn't by much.

A more fair criticism. Most Penn and Princeton students are only vaguely aware of a football team in their midst, while it's unclear how long the existing diehard Penn and Princeton football fans have left on This Mortal Coil. Fair to say that the number of fans is low for both, and falling fast.


Someone else, not LFN, but I think he agreed: Moving the kickoff from 1:00 to 12:30 really reduces attendance. I realize that I don't have a Lehigh education and I might be off here, but I'm calculating that change as 30 minutes. 30 freakin' minutes! Get real.

The 30 minutes does make a difference. However, what was left unsaid were some of the tailgate policies related to that kickoff change, like the fact that tailgates need to be broken down and cleaned up by kickoff. The way things stand now, honest tailgaters need to break down their tailgates starting at noon in order to get into the stadium on time. The kickoff, and those tailgate policies, certainly hold down attendance. Folks who might consider going thus won't.

[RichH2]

Hard to believe that we're arguing about KO times, attendance and PU's band. Geez, there are so many Fball issues.
ZZ the future qb
Can Gate find a D
Will LU ever play a 2nd half
A Hoya sellout
HC a mirage
FU over Cornell the future of PL
BU good or UD not so much

[Pard4Life]

Thanks for the verification carney. I told the scallywags here that Penn had maybe a handful more than Princeton fans and they gawked. I was on the Princeton side (for obvious reasons). It didn't feel like 8400 because the students were into the game and the concession areas were crowded.

Our opening mark is impressive considering where we've been. If you go on wikipedia, you can see our attendance for each game going back a few years. In 2008-09, we had 10k for the Prnn game and back-to-back 10k games on 2009 when Liberty came to town. Attendance even held for late season games ie nearly 9k for the Colgate finale during the day. When the Pards are good and it's a strong opponent, we have crowds.

I don't own maroon glasses and I call it as is.

[Pard4Life]

I think 1230 vs 1pm does matter even though it's 30 minutes. It's like having four quarters vs $1 bill in your pocket... you feel "richer" with the dollar bill..

[van]

LAFAYETTE, Bisons still have to prove something before picking them
FORDHAM, no contest here
Real HOLY CROSS shows up for this one
Stony Brook runs all over red raiders
LEHIGH plays a complete game for once
Hoyas over Tigers, not very confident in this pick, might be 9-6 game

[Ivytalk]

Hey, carney, is that ball the Harvard lad kicked last year still on the roof?

[Sader87]

12:30 vs 1 pm is huge, particularly if your campus enforces the "no tailgating once the game starts" like the East German Stasi as HC has recently...not sure if it's worth another 3-5K but the draconian tailgating policy at HC has hurt attendance over the last decade or so.

I think an ideal "afternoon Sept/Oct" kickoff at Fitton would be 3 or 3:30 or so....gives time for families to do "family stuff" on Sat mornings, leaves enough time for pre-game tailgating, visiting the campus etc. My $ .02.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Part of the issue with lights at Goodman is that Lehigh would have to light not only the stadium but the surrounding parking facilities as well. Lafayette didn't have that issue when it decided that it could add enough candlepower to Fisher to make it visible from the surface of Mars. Plus, for reasons yet unexplained through the miracles of modern engineering, 10,000 football fans can come and go on College Hill without any semblance of a parking lot or a traffic tie-up getting out. Anyone able to explain this phenomenon might be awarded a Nobel Prize or a Fields Medal.

For the time being, and even if lights are installed at Goodman, it would be a wise idea to continue to to schedule Lafayette and Lehigh games as day/night when both play at home.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Hey, carney, is that ball the Harvard lad kicked last year still on the roof?

Funny you should mention that - every time I've been at Fisher since that game I've glanced up at the top of Bourger House wondering if I might spot an errant ball with David Mothander's signature on it. Seriously - I can't help it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

12:30 vs 1 pm is huge, particularly if your campus enforces the "no tailgating once the game starts" like the East German Stasi as HC has recently...not sure if it's worth another 3-5K but the draconian tailgating policy at HC has hurt attendance over the last decade or so.

I think an ideal "afternoon Sept/Oct" kickoff at Fitton would be 3 or 3:30 or so....gives time for families to do "family stuff" on Sat mornings, leaves enough time for pre-game tailgating, visiting the campus etc. My $ .02.

+1000. I don't even mind most of the kickoffs at 12:30, just have one September game with a 3PM kickoff.

[van]

+1000. I don't even mind most of the kickoffs at 12:30, just have one September game with a 3PM kickoff.

Would have liked the labor day game to be 3pm kickoff - it was brutal in the sun all afternoon and I saw two people getting medical help.

[Bogus Megapardus]

12:30 vs 1 pm is huge, particularly if your campus enforces the "no tailgating once the game starts" like the East German Stasi as HC has recently...not sure if it's worth another 3-5K but the draconian tailgating policy at HC has hurt attendance over the last decade or so.

I think an ideal "afternoon Sept/Oct" kickoff at Fitton would be 3 or 3:30 or so....gives time for families to do "family stuff" on Sat mornings, leaves enough time for pre-game tailgating, visiting the campus etc. My $ .02.

Also keep in mind that students wake up late on Saturday and usually want to get some study time in, at least at PL schools. Students these days seem to be better at advance planning than was I, back in the day. A student today will be hesitant to plan for a football game, then go back for study hours, followed by Saturday night social activities. The transition from game to study to social tends to lead to the "screw it, I'll just get my research/paper/reading done, then get ready to go out" frame of mind. With a Saturday night game, a student can get plenty of meaningful study time in on Saturday, then go to the game with friends, with an easy transition to Saturday night socializing.

At the PL schools at least, it's very important to the AD that students come to and enjoy the game. We're small colleges for the most part and it's their team, after all - we're not money-making ventures for the TV networks.

[RichH2]

Also keep in mind that students wake up late on Saturday and usually want to get some study time in, at least at PL schools. Students these days seem to be better at advance planning than was I, back in the day. A student today will be hesitant to plan for a football game, then go back for study hours, followed by Saturday night social activities. The transition from game to study to social tends to lead to the "screw it, I'll just get my research/paper/reading done, then get ready to go out" frame of mind. With a Saturday night game, a student can get plenty of meaningful study time in on Saturday, then go to the game with friends, with an easy transition to Saturday night socializing.




At the PL schools at least, it's very important to the AD that students come to and enjoy the game. We're small colleges for the most part and it's their team, after all - we're not money-making ventures for the TV networks.


Yup. I believe night games in Sept will get more students and old farts like me . Could build student interest.

[RichH2]

Bassetts

LC-BU 24-17
HC- Dart 24-21
LU-Lib 28-24
SB-Gate 31-24
Col-FU Even
GU-PU Even

[Pard4Life]

It's interesting that Massey's got the LC-Penn score exactly right and close on others.

[Southsider]

Thanks for the verification carney. I told the scallywags here that Penn had maybe a handful more than Princeton fans and they gawked. I was on the Princeton side (for obvious reasons). It didn't feel like 8400 because the students were into the game and the concession areas were crowded.

Our opening mark is impressive considering where we've been. If you go on wikipedia, you can see our attendance for each game going back a few years. In 2008-09, we had 10k for the Prnn game and back-to-back 10k games on 2009 when Liberty came to town. Attendance even held for late season games ie nearly 9k for the Colgate finale during the day. When the Pards are good and it's a strong opponent, we have crowds.

I don't own maroon glasses and I call it as is.

Oh really??? As for attendance, with 20+ games on the tube, and countless others online, it's tough to get people out to a game. It 's going to take some schedule upgrades, even though those games would be on the road, to spark some new interest in our teams. I've always enjoyed watching a game in a cozy stadium with 8k in attendance far more than sitting in Row 95 at Beaver Stadium. I also wonder if the expected downturn at PSU will translate into better attendance at LU & LC? Lottsa PSU fans locally who may lose some interest over time.

[carney2]

Hey, carney, is that ball the Harvard lad kicked last year still on the roof?

Long gone. It was such a bad memory (one of the infamous no show games) that legend has it that Tavani climbed up there himself and ate the thing.

[ngineer]

I'm pretty sure schools have been skewing the numbers for a few years now. Jokes aside, the figures given at Lehigh games anymore don't add up. In the past, a basically full home side + a decent bank crowd + plus a small cluster on the away side meant 10k. Now it's 6,500. I don't get it.

Agree. I mentioned this on the attendance thread. It seems as if they don't count the students or other freebies, like kids. It certainl looked like 8500-9000 to me based on past years' announced figures.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

Bucknell over Lafayette
HC over Dartmouth
Lehigh over Liberty
Stony Brook over Colgate
Georgetown over Princeton
Fordham over Columbia

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dartmouth at Holy Cross. Dartmouth won big at home over Butler in its opener. Yeah, it’s Butler, but still . . . On the other hand, the Crusaders dropped their opener 38-17 to New Hampshire then lost to Brown, 24-21, both at Fitton. To make matters worse, Crosser QB Kevin Watson smacked up his knee last week. The Gilmores have the size, speed and athletic advantage but I’m going to have to give this one to the Keggers. I very well could be wrong, though. Dartmouth 27-24.

Lafayette at Bucknell. Maybe we’ll get to see the foliage on the eponymous Bucknell shrubberies that much more clearly in CBS high-definition, but don’t expect either Roger the Shrubber or Tim the Enchanter to come to the rescue of the Buffalo Jumpers. I’d have to have seen more than a field goal at Delaware and much more than a two point nail-biter against Marist to believe that the Bison have the chops this year. Barring a blizzard that is – in which case all bets are off. Lafayette 28-17.

Lehigh at Liberty. The Flames’ terrific showing at Wake Forest is tempered by a lackluster effort vs. Norfolk State and that trouncing by Montana last weekend. As for the Brownie Scouts, I’m not giving them much credit for scraping past Princeton at home (and I don’t care how you try to spin the stat sheet). Turner Gill has never in his career had to decipher anything as complex as what he’ll face in Lynchburg this Saturday. Liberty will be caught flat-footed. Lehigh 31-21.

Fordham at Columbia. The Rams will face a tougher defense than they did last weekend. But the Lions were a missed PAT from losing to Marist last Saturday and won’t be able to generate anywhere near enough offense to beat an improved Fordham team which seems to be gaining much energy under new HC Joe Moorhead. I’m not counting the Ram’s DII win, but I think that Fordham will tough out a solid Liberty Cup win up in Inwood. Fordham 17-6.

Georgetown at Princeton. Well, well. For the first time since 1923 the Hoyas will face the Tigers. And you know what? For the first time, they might actually win. I haven’t a clue what got into the Tigers that enabled them to take Lehigh to the wire last Saturday. On the other hand, I’m impressed enough by Georgetown’s ability to take Yale to the wire to give Georgetown the edge here. Besides, everyone knows that, in the Ivy, out of conference games “don’t count.” So it’s a matter of motivation. Georgetown 21-20.

Colgate at Stony Brook. So, where is the legendary Dick Biddle defense? OK, I understand that South Dakota and Albany made for a challenging start to the season, but the Red Raiders have surrendered 85 points in three games. Ouch. The home win over Sacred Heart might have healed some wounds but now the Bick Diddlers have to face a Stony Brook offense that has put up 143 points in three games, including a very respectable showing against historic Colgate’s historic nemesis, Syracuse. I’m pulling for you guys, but I can’t pull that hard. Stony Brook 35-20.

[Fordhamanhattan]

It's important to note that Fordham running back Carlton Koonce who is Patriot League "Player of the Week" (the one league award the Maroon is eligible for) and Maisoinet the standout Stoney Brook (spelling intentional since most of the Stony Brook contemporaries of mine were in a drug induced fog) running back are transfers from Hofstra. Last year the Fordham brain trust had Koonce at wideout.

[Pards Rule]

No, I heard it was shaken loose with his thunderous tirade at halftime in the now famous Bucknell snow bout on Oct 29, 2011.

[van]

Lehigh at Liberty. The Flames’ terrific showing at Wake Forest is tempered by a lackluster effort vs. Norfolk State and that trouncing by Montana last weekend. As for the Brownie Scouts, I’m not giving them much credit for scraping past Princeton at home (and I don’t care how you try to spin the stat sheet). Turner Gill has never in his career had to decipher anything as complex as what he’ll face at Goodman this Saturday. Liberty will be caught flat-footed. Lehigh 31-21.

Bogie - you need to return to Easton and re-take that geography course, game is in Lynchburg and one week is not enough time to move Goodman that far.

[thebin]

What possible reason would Lehigh have to under report attendance? When you have a 2/3 full home side, 1k on the away side and a few hundred people walking around you get 6-7k people as reported.

I have no idea why anyone would under-report or if it is intentional or if some buckets of tickets just are not being counted by accident. All I know is nobody will ever convince me there were not at least 8K people at last season's de-facto PL championship game at Goodman vs Gtown. There is also no way the reported attendance of 6044 doesn't reflect at least the number of people on the Lehigh side alone and then some. Isn't 2/3rds of the Lehigh side alone 6-7k? Thought the Lehigh side looked somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 full.

The capacity isn't 50/50 at Goodman between home and away is it? Do they count the endzone bowl area as part of official capacity? I always assumed it was 9K on home side for 7k on away side. There had to be 1500 people on the Gtown side conservatively between hoyas and random neutrals, etc. The visitor's side for that game was not crowded but it was by no means empty. I'm generally pretty good at guessing attendances and there is just no way you could have got that entire crowd into a 6K seat high school stadium. Looked like 8-8.5K to me. Closer to 9 than 6 I'm sure of it. Either that or a lot of people are sneaking in without tix.

This is not the best shot of it but you can tell the Gtown side is not empty or virtually empty in the pic below. From that pic you can pretty safely say there was a minimum of 1K on away sides. Does anyone really think there were only 5K on the lehigh side who was at that game?

http://photos.lehighvalleylive.com/thebrownandwhite/2011/11/football_vs_georgetown_5.html

[thebin]

Would have liked the labor day game to be 3pm kickoff - it was brutal in the sun all afternoon and I saw two people getting medical help.

It is hotter at 3PM generally than 1. If you want to avoid the worst of the heat you should go noon or night.

[Franks Tanks]

I have no idea why anyone would under-report or if it is intentional or if some buckets of tickets just are not being counted by accident. All I know is nobody will ever convince me there were not at least 8K people at last season's de-facto PL championship game at Goodman vs Gtown. There is also no way the reported attendance of 6044 doesn't reflect at least the number of people on the Lehigh side alone and then some. Isn't 2/3rds of the Lehigh side alone 6-7k? Thought the Lehigh side looked somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 full.

The capacity isn't 50/50 at Goodman between home and away is it? Do they count the endzone bowl area as part of official capacity? I always assumed it was 9K on home side for 7k on away side. There had to be 1500 people on the Gtown side conservatively between hoyas and random neutrals, etc. The visitor's side for that game was not crowded but it was by no means empty. I'm generally pretty good at guessing attendances and there is just no way you could have got that entire crowd into a 6K seat high school stadium. Looked like 8-8.5K to me. Closer to 9 than 6 I'm sure of it. Either that or a lot of people are sneaking in without tix.

This is not the best shot of it but you can tell the Gtown side is not empty or virtually empty in the pic below. From that pic you can pretty safely say there was a minimum of 1K on away sides. Does anyone really think there were only 5K on the lehigh side who was at that game?

http://photos.lehighvalleylive.com/thebrownandwhite/2011/11/football_vs_georgetown_5.html

I believe Goodman is split 50/50 or 8k on each side. Actually the away stands may have a slightly larger capacity because it is all bleacher seats.

A Lehigh home side that is 2/3 full equals 5,280 fans if the home side is the suspected 8k capacity. Again it makes no sense for Lehigh to not report attendance correctly. They aren't sharing revenues. Perhaps they do not count student attendance, but that would be 1k max, and that is being very generous.

[thebin]

I believe Goodman is split 50/50 or 8k on each side. Actually the away stands may have a slightly larger capacity because it is all bleacher seats.

A Lehigh home side that is 2/3 full equals 5,280 fans if the home side is the suspected 8k capacity. Again it makes no sense for Lehigh to not report attendance correctly. They aren't sharing revenues. Perhaps they do not count student attendance, but that would be 1k max, and that is being very generous.

I don't actually think they are trying to purposely under-count as I agree that doesn't pass the sniff test in terms of motive. Seems far more reasonable however that they are doing so in error- that they are not properly capturing 100% of the gate or like you said lots of freebies are not being counted. All I know is I was at that game and there is NO WAY that was only 6044 people at the whole of Goodman that day. Interesting to note that there are other long time Goodman-goers who have been thinking the same thing for some other games. THere is just no chance you could have dumped the whole crowd into Jack Coffey and been OK. No chance.

I understand that if I were you I'd probably meet my gut feeling here with a grain of sand too. Wish I had more photos. But I've just been going to IAA games for 30 years and have a pretty good track record of guessing attendances and was floored when that number was printed in the box score. (Guessing attendances has long been a silly little hobby of mine- like scorecards at baseball games but not so much work. But I'm good for getting it within 500 or so most of the time and within 1K all the time. I had this one at 8k.)

[Franks Tanks]

I don't actually think they are trying to purposely under-count as I agree that doesn't pass the sniff test in terms of motive. Seems far more reasonable however that they are doing so in error- that they are not properly capturing 100% of the gate or like you said lots of freebies are not being counted. All I know is I was at that game and there is NO WAY that was only 6044 people at the whole of Goodman that day. Interesting to note that there are other long time Goodman-goers who have been thinking the same thing for some other games. THere is just no chance you could have dumped the whole crowd into Jack Coffey and been OK. No chance.

I don't believe Lafayette counts students attendance either as they just look at the student ID and waive the kids through. Naturally it would be possible to count at the turnstiles, which both Fisher and Goodman employ, but I don't know if they are used.

I think Hawk fans are just pissed that Lafayette out drew them head to head fair and square on the same day.

[thebin]

I gotcha. I have no dog in that fight as a Hoya fan.

[Franks Tanks]

I gotcha. I have no dog in that fight as a Hoya fan.

Good to know--I like you much better already!

[RichH2]

Actually dont care what Pards draw, other than the better all of us draw the better for PL fball. Only time such comparison would be relevant would be if we were competing for same people. Not a likely scenario. I cant claim any expertise in guessing crowd. It was a good lively crowd and a nice afternoon.

[PAllen]

LU back in the '90s used to make students come through separate turnstiles. If they don't still do it (I haven't been a student in quite some time), they may not be counting students. That could account for ~1K butts in seats which gets you from the 6K+ reported and the "just under 8K" witnessed. LU may be under reporting because they just don't care enough to do a thorough count.

[RichH2]

Was not paying attention when we went in but as I recall there were students in our line. I would guess there were 300-400 people on the hill. 1000-1500 on visitors. Home seemed pretty full to me .

[carney2]

Do they count the endzone bowl area as part of official capacity?

Yes and no. My experience at the Lafayette @ Lehigh game is that you have to have a ticket with a designated seat to get in. Those people sitting on the grassy knoll have assigned seats, but have chosen to desert them. There are general admission tickets, but my guess is that they do not issue more than the GA or total seats available. I have never heard of a "standing room" ticket at Badman.

[carney2]

Was not paying attention when we went in but as I recall there were students in our line. I would guess there were 300-400 people on the hill. 1000-1500 on visitors. Home seemed pretty full to me .

I was beyond the chairbacks at the north end on the home side. It was not anything near full. Kids (9 or 10 years old) running all over the place with plenty of room. Actually, the chairbacks were nowhere near full at the north end. If I'd been in the mood I could have moved in there and had plenty of room to spread out. Since I bring my own "chairback,"...

[RichH2]

I use to mock old coots bringing backs to game, now I are one. We also bring our own.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogie - you need to return to Easton and re-take that geography course, game is in Lynchburg and one week is not enough time to move Goodman that far.

Fixed.

[Southsider]

I was beyond the chairbacks at the north end on the home side. It was not anything near full. Kids (9 or 10 years old) running all over the place with plenty of room. Actually, the chairbacks were nowhere near full at the north end. If I'd been in the mood I could have moved in there and had plenty of room to spread out. Since I bring my own "chairback,"...

I always sit on the visitors side. Carney2 is right, home side was probably only 75% full. And, with the new tickets they are now scanning everyone in, which likely gives a pretty accurate recap. Unlike the past, where they tore your ticket in half, and threw their half away.

[ColgateTD]

Sorry to break in to your various discussions of attendance....

Princeton - not sold on Hoyas yet
Lafayette - Pards too hot for Bison
Fordham - obvious choice
Holy Cross - Big Green still a work in progress
Lehigh - Engineers should win by a hare
Stoney Brook - transfers from BCS schools will give 'Gate another "L" unfortunately

13-5 so far

[van]

I was beyond the chairbacks at the north end on the home side. It was not anything near full. Kids (9 or 10 years old) running all over the place with plenty of room. Actually, the chairbacks were nowhere near full at the north end. If I'd been in the mood I could have moved in there and had plenty of room to spread out. Since I bring my own "chairback,"...

Agree, there were a lot of holes in the chair backs on the 50 yard line too. I personally know of 5 season ticket holders that did not show.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I would like to say for the record that I'm amazed so many people are taking Lehigh. Haven't broke things down yet, but... man.

[bulldog10jw]

Sorry to break in to your various discussions of attendance....

Princeton - not sold on Hoyas yet
Lafayette - Pards too hot for Bison
Fordham - obvious choice
Holy Cross - Big Green still a work in progress
Lehigh - Engineers should win by a hare
Stoney Brook - transfers from BCS schools will give 'Gate another "L" unfortunately

13-5 so far

So are you sold on Princeton?

[Pard4Life]

I would like to say for the record that I'm amazed so many people are taking Lehigh. Haven't broke things down yet, but... man.

Don't worry... not me!

[Pard4Life]

Yes and no. My experience at the Lafayette @ Lehigh game is that you have to have a ticket with a designated seat to get in. Those people sitting on the grassy knoll have assigned seats, but have chosen to desert them. There are general admission tickets, but my guess is that they do not issue more than the GA or total seats available. I have never heard of a "standing room" ticket at Badman.

They have them, the dreaded "SRO"... a bunch of us got stiffed with them in 2007, including me. After that I started getting the ticket package. We easily found a seat in the stands.

[Pard4Life]

I'd put it at 50% full... I was sitting on the visitor side. If you put everyone seat-to-seat, half that side is empty. Remember, there are gaps in the seats where the "crowds" are sitting.

[Engineer86]

As always, I take that as a compliment.



I didn't say that. I said that getting a decent sized troop of home fans is more important than kvetching about the "good old days" when we used to get 12,000 for home games. File this under the heading of: times have changed, adapt. Not that smaller crowds are better than big crowds.



A more fair criticism. Most Penn and Princeton students are only vaguely aware of a football team in their midst, while it's unclear how long the existing diehard Penn and Princeton football fans have left on This Mortal Coil. Fair to say that the number of fans is low for both, and falling fast.



The 30 minutes does make a difference. However, what was left unsaid were some of the tailgate policies related to that kickoff change, like the fact that tailgates need to be broken down and cleaned up by kickoff. The way things stand now, honest tailgaters need to break down their tailgates starting at noon in order to get into the stadium on time. The kickoff, and those tailgate policies, certainly hold down attendance. Folks who might consider going thus won't.

Who breaks down their tailgate at 12:00? Mine breaks down around 12:35 as I finish my beer at the gate.

[Engineer86]

Yes and no. My experience at the Lafayette @ Lehigh game is that you have to have a ticket with a designated seat to get in. Those people sitting on the grassy knoll have assigned seats, but have chosen to desert them. There are general admission tickets, but my guess is that they do not issue more than the GA or total seats available. I have never heard of a "standing room" ticket at Badman.

Lehigh only opens up the hill if it is nice weather, like last year. Those tickets were GA tickets that went on sale Wednesday before the game. I bought a few. I forget the total they made available.

[RichH2]

Geez, still on attendance. Really? Iknow there were games last week and people went ,I know because I was 1 of them. I also know games are planned for next Sat. Are we ever going to talk about them?

[Pard4Life]

A bit of a factoid... for a few hours last Saturday, Lafayette and Lehigh achieved something together that had not been done since the first few weeks of the season... in October 1896:

Total wins:
Lafayette - 655
Lehigh - 655

... same number of wins overall. Lafayette won 656 by beating Penn.

[Pard4Life]

Geez, still on attendance. Really? Iknow there were games last week and people went ,I know because I was 1 of them. I also know games are planned for next Sat. Are we ever going to talk about them?

Ok, fine... there should be a decent crowd for the Bucknell game this Saturday... first home game of the year for BU and I believe it's their Family Weekend. Lehigh should see a sellout at Liberty, 14,000+.

[carney2]

Ok, fine... there should be a decent crowd for the Bucknell game this Saturday... first home game of the year for BU and I believe it's their Family Weekend. Lehigh should see a sellout at Liberty, 14,000+.

So, are we talking 2,500 at Bucknell? 2,600?

[carney2]

I would like to say for the record that I'm amazed so many people are taking Lehigh. Haven't broke things down yet, but... man.

The common wisdom is being heavily impacted by the Flames' loss to Norfolk State and then the blowout in Big Sky where Liberty managed just 21 yds. rushing. If this is the usual Liberty team, they haven't shown it.

[RichH2]

I would like to say for the record that I'm amazed so many people are taking Lehigh. Haven't broke things down yet, but... man.


Ok, fine... there should be a decent crowd for the Bucknell game this Saturday... first home game of the year for BU and I believe it's their Family Weekend. Lehigh should see a sellout at Liberty, 14,000+.


OK, I give up. Maybe everyone should include CAA,Big South and Ivies to get comparative values of attendance and Carney can come up with arating system.

[BucBisonAtLarge]

So, are we talking 2,500 at Bucknell? 2,600?

Cmon, Carney are you saying #90 is no equal to home openers like Duquesne (2011-6000+), Dartmouth (2010-6000+) or the last Family Weekend home game, Cornell (2010-7800)? Buck up, buddy. It is a down year for the state school up Route 45 and the glacier has not yet descended. Someone will show up to watch the kittens. The big Lewisburg-Shikellemy game is Friday night in Sunbury.

[ngineer]

Lehigh has, historically, drawn very well. The low attendance figures are something that really only started appearing in the last 4-5 years imo. In the late 90's, early 00's Colgate at home was a guaranteed 12k+. Heck, Bucknell in 2000 sold out, 16k+. I'm not sure if Lehigh averaged less than 10k the first 20 years of Goodman.

I still think there's some shenanigans going on with the counting. The HC figure from last year was, and still is a joke.

Lehigh still travels excellent. Very few FCS teams in the northeast bring as many fans to roadies as Lehigh.

Disagree. We averaged around 10,000/game only in the late 1990's/early 2000's during the phenomenal run under Higgins/Lembo. Attendance has been down everywhere in the east, and especially at the PL/Ivy schools. The demographics of the student body and competition with other diversions is primarily to blame, imo. Night football might increase attendance somewhat in September, but I don't know if the cost of lights is worth it unless you're going to use the stadium for lacrosse as well.

[ngineer]

My picks:

Georgetown in a defensive struggle over Princeton, 17-14
Lafayette has trouble with a spirited Bison defense and loses on last second fg, 20-17.
Fordham routs Columbia, 32-10
Dartmouth shocks Holy Cross who has stumbled out of the blocks.
Colgate's defense gets tested too often by SBU, losing 35-21.
Lehigh finally scores points in the third quarter and opportunistic defense sets up the O. "Nawthin' " LU by 24-17.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This 1-minute clip from the Brown & White gives a very accurate depiction of how filled the home stands were. Not a sellout, surely, but still a pretty damned good crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nCT1jPcqEbs#!

[Fordhamanhattan]

The Tigers over the Hoya 21-10
Leopards over their western rivals 35-12
Christians over the Lions 42-21
The once Indians over the Crusaders 32-17
Stoney Brook with big Maisonette game over the apple knockers 35-21
The erstwhile Engineers over the Born Again 23-21

[jdb037]

Leopards over their western rivals 35-12


Yikes. Someone is either really high on the Pards or low on the Bison.

Bucknell hasn't given up more than 21 points dating back to Harvard last year (6 games). In fact, that Harvard game was the only time anyone scored over 30 on the Bison last year. Not sure Lafayette will reach that mark either

[Fordhamanhattan]

Take it to the bank!

[carney2]

I'm kind of with Fordhamanhattan here. After the disciplinary one week suspension, senior QB Andrew Shoop has something to prove. The kid is talented enough to make some things happen on Saturday against what I believe is an overmatched Buffalo eleven.

[Pard4Life]

Last week: 5-2, overall: 15-3 (two losses are my own alma mater's victories for pete's sake!)

Lots of toss-up games this week that can make or break our pick'em records...

Georgetown 17, Princeton 14 ... The "mystery game" of the week. This is really a tough pick. Princeton is inept on offense, but plays determined and aggressive on defense, yet has a terrible secondary. Their OL moves the ball. However, Georgetown is experienced and aggressive on defense, which may be enough to get to the Tigers. Plus, I just think Yale has their number.

Lafayette 34, Bucknell 10... Shoop is going to go off. Bison played a spirited game vs. Bucknell but were badly outgained. Lafayette defense is tough, but what offense do the Bison have to win this game?

Fordham 17, Columbia 13... Rams-Lions should logically always be a Fordham blowout, but the Lions somehow manage win games against Fordham they are not supposed to. Rams have enough on their side after last week's big Cornell win.

Holy Cross 28, Dartmouth 21... Certainly no Butler.

Stony Brook 49, Colgate 21... Over early, over often. Ball pounded at Colgate.

Liberty 24, Lehigh 21... Not a mystery game, but a "well, it depends" game. Does Lehigh play a full game? Does Lehigh run their offense? Does Liberty get their running game going? Does Liberty improve their run defense? I have to believe the talent they showed in the Wake Forest game emerges at some point. Lehigh has shown zero consistency in games against two cupcakes and a good Monmouth squad, so what is pointing to Lehigh getting their act together? If Lehigh wins big and in dominating fashion, they may actually earn their ranking. Liberty is not a cupcake 0-3.

[Pard4Life]

Bogie -- what's your impression of Fordham after catching their game? Rams or Yams?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogie -- what's your impression of Fordham after catching their game? Rams or Yams?

Fordham looks more or less like a "normal" PL team, whereas the last couple of years they kept shooting themselves in the foot with mental mistakes and questionable play calling, even though they clearly had the talent. Last weekend Cornell moved the ball really well between the 20s with their QB piling up tons of passing yards. But Cornell couldn't do zip on the ground; it looked like there was no way they were going to get a rushing TD against the Ram's size. The Fordham D was big and stingy inside. They also sacked the Cornell QB a few times. The only way Cornell was going to score was with the long pass which is essentially what happened, although they did punch in through from the 1 after a nice pass set it up.

Fordham's RB Koonce is a force. He ran all over Cornell for most of the game and he had a couple of long TD runs. I think he's the only Fordham RB that got any touches. Fordham's game plan clearly was focused on the run, highlighting Koonce. Fordham's defensive secondary looked pedestrian at best against Cornell's QB and quick receivers, and they didn't tackle particularly well. The Ram's run D was solid as a rock but Cornell put up more than 450 yards in the air.

PL teams might have better luck running against the Rams with stronger OL blocking (though Cornell's OL was not small by any means) and quicker RBs. It's hard to say, though. It sure looks to me as if Fordham's soft spot is middle-to-long pass coverage and some suspect tackling in the open. The Rams in general are much improved and less prone to error than past years. No PL team will be able to skate past them as they have recently.

[Go...gate]

Attendance figures (per ESPN) for Week 3 games played at a PL site:

1. Lafayette 8,376 (night game)
2. Lehigh 7,346
3. Fordham 6,087
4. Holy Cross 5,684
5. Colgate 5,384
6. Georgetown 2,689

Not a chance. Maybe 1750.

[Pards Rule]

Last week: 5-2, overall: 15-3 (two losses are my own alma mater's victories for pete's sake!)

Lots of toss-up games this week that can make or break our pick'em records...

Georgetown 17, Princeton 14 ... The "mystery game" of the week. This is really a tough pick. Princeton is inept on offense, but plays determined and aggressive on defense, yet has a terrible secondary. Their OL moves the ball. However, Georgetown is experienced and aggressive on defense, which may be enough to get to the Tigers. Plus, I just think Yale has their number.

Lafayette 34, Bucknell 10... Shoop is going to go off. Bison played a spirited game vs. Bucknell but were badly outgained. Lafayette defense is tough, but what offense do the Bison have to win this game?

Fordham 17, Columbia 13... Rams-Lions should logically always be a Fordham blowout, but the Lions somehow manage win games against Fordham they are not supposed to. Rams have enough on their side after last week's big Cornell win.

Holy Cross 28, Dartmouth 21... Certainly no Butler.

Stony Brook 49, Colgate 21... Over early, over often. Ball pounded at Colgate.

Liberty 24, Lehigh 21... Not a mystery game, but a "well, it depends" game. Does Lehigh play a full game? Does Lehigh run their offense? Does Liberty get their running game going? Does Liberty improve their run defense? I have to believe the talent they showed in the Wake Forest game emerges at some point. Lehigh has shown zero consistency in games against two cupcakes and a good Monmouth squad, so what is pointing to Lehigh getting their act together? If Lehigh wins big and in dominating fashion, they may actually earn their ranking. Liberty is not a cupcake 0-3.

I assume you meant vs Delaware as they only lost 19-6 and were only down 6-3 at half in Newark, DE.

[Pard4Life]

Not a chance. Maybe 1750.

These figures may very well be ticket sales as well... Last year, 3,000 were announced for the Lafayette-Bucknell game in the snow when you could count the people in the stands.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Some of the PL/Ivy sportsbook odds are up. I'll update as more are listed:

Lafayette (-4) at Bucknell

Fordham (pk) at Columbia

Dartmouth (pk) at Holy Cross

Yale (-1) at Cornell

Villanova (-1½) at Penn

Harvard (-4) at Brown

Stony Brook (-14) vs Colgate

Lehigh (-6) at Liberty


EDIT: Harvard, Colgate and Lehigh finally are up. Still nothing on Georgetown/Princeton.

[PAllen]

Home side looks about 2/3 full. The hill has maybe 500 people. I'm guessing the away side was well less than 1/4 full. That makes the 7300 figure very believable. That all said, let's move on, we've got a game this weekend!


This 1-minute clip from the Brown & White gives a very accurate depiction of how filled the home stands were. Not a sellout, surely, but still a pretty damned good crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nCT1jPcqEbs#!

[Bogus Megapardus]

We all benefit by winning our OCC games, scheduling "up" and facing a mix of teams with academic identities (Ivies, W&M, Villanova) plus those substantial fan bases (NDSU, Liberty, South Dakota). When we start to win the MVFC and CAA games, then in a few years begin to face some selected northeastern FBS teams, attendance should go up for everyone in the PL. The Lafayette experience has shown that broadcasting lots of games on regional commercial television increases, rather than decreases, attendance. Sure, some of us lazy folk will stay home and watch on TV but awareness goes way up. My hope is that the league office works with LSN to find a way to help all PL teams establish a weekly television presence.

I was at both Jack Coffey Field and at Fisher Field last weekend. It seemed to me to be a SRO crowd at Fordham. It was a picture-perfect sunny day (I got sunburned out there) and the crowd was much more enthusiastic than PL golf-clap etiquette typically dictates. I know that some Fordham fans moan about the one-sided nature of the facility but there's really no basis for complaining. The field and the surrounding campus were really quite nice. For television, Fordham simply could place cameras and a press facility (even if on a temporary lift) on the baseball side of the field. The Fordham stands are right up next to the field and very close to the action. There are no bad seats and the stands overlook the Botanical Gardens in the distance.

The Lafayette crowd that evening was bigger but Fisher seemed less full than Jack Coffey becasue there wasn't a big crowd on the Fisher visitor's side. As with the Fordham game, the Lafayette crowd seemed much more spirited than has been typical at PL games in recent reads. Pard fans even got into some foot-stomping to create a ruckus for the defense when some of the players waived their arms upward in the "bring on the noise" signal. There seemed to me to be more Lafayette students at the game than usual. Penn brought its pep band and even the two bands went at it, each trying to drown out the other from opposite ends of the stadium.

With a national television audience this weekend, I really would like to see Bucknell get a strong turnout. Matthewson is a very nice facility. I know that Lewisburg seem a bit remote, but look at all those people who (used to) show up just down the road in Happy Valley? I hope that Bucknell has been promoting the heck out of this game among its students, and alums, and in the local area. We all have seen how Bucknell students turn out at Sojka for basketball and the kind of enthusiasm they are capable of showing. Perhaps that Sojka enthusiasm can carry over, at least this once, to a nationally-televised football game against Bucknell's most-played rival. What was the biggest crowd at Matthewson in the last 10-15 years? Might it be reasonable to hope that Bucknell can draw 8-9 thousand this weekend?

NB - Dave Ryan will do the play-by-play and Ron Zook will do the color for CBS. Also, 60% chance of thunder showers at game time. That could but a damper on things.

[Pard4Life]

Forecast looks good as storms usually roll through late afternoon.

Bucknell has nearly sold out the stadium on Family/Homecoming dates when they play Penn.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This is going to be a very good Lafayette - Bucknell game. To many times in past years Lafayette fans have tended to look past the Bison. That certainly won't the case this weekend.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Some movement in the PL/Ivy sportsbook lines.

Fordham at Columbia now is Fordham (-1½)

Villanova at Penn now is Villanova (-3)

Colgate at Stony Brook now is Stony Brook (-18)

Still no line on the Georgetown/Princeton game.

[ngineer]

I've heard from well-placed sources at Laughyette that halftime entertainment at Fisher will be the Doobie Brothers as a tip of the cap to the Leotard QB. Probably explains the 'token' effort the team seemed to make last year. Hopefully, Frank has cleaned the air.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I've heard from well-placed sources at Laughyette that halftime entertainment at Fisher will be the Doobie Brothers as a tip of the cap to the Leotard QB. Probably explains the 'token' effort the team seemed to make last year. Hopefully, Frank has cleaned the air.

Something I would have thought of, perhaps, along with that infamous little tune from Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus," and several others.

Except that Tavani made abundantly clear that the infraction came nowhere near that level. You're making it seem as if we allow our players to slack off in made-up majors like "Supply Chain Management" or whatever, just so they don't have to apply themselves academically in the same way as other PL athletes. Could you imagine?

[RichH2]

Overused comeback Bogie. Hope gogreen finally gets on. It would be nice to have a broader representation from the IL.
Dont forget Gate and Lehigh lead PL on payscale.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

14-4 Overall...

Fordham 31 Columbia 21 - These games always seem to be close...

Princeton 14 Georgetown 10 - Two teams that struggles on offense. I'll take the home team...

Holy Cross 28 Dartmouth 17- The Crusaders can't afford to start 0-3...

Stony Brook 42 Colgate 31 - I think the Raiders will hang in but their defense will prevent them from winning...

Lafayette 21 Bucknell 20 - This should be a close, relatively low scoring game. I'll take the 'Pards to exact some revenge.

Lehigh 27 Liberty 20 - The Hawks are just a little stronger all the way around imo. The running game should pave the way for Colvin to make a couple big plays downfield...

[Pards Rule]

I don't believe Lafayette counts students attendance either as they just look at the student ID and waive the kids through. Naturally it would be possible to count at the turnstiles, which both Fisher and Goodman employ, but I don't know if they are used.

I think Hawk fans are just pissed that Lafayette out drew them head to head fair and square on the same day.

FT I think they do. At Penn game I saw a student turned back at the gate with just ID - she was directed to show ID to one of the "yellow jackets" (new term!) and he gave her a ticket which was scanned at the turnstile. So, I do believe they count the students too.

[Ken_Z]

Friday, September 21, 2012:

GEORGETOWN 27 @ Princeton 17: like Davey Jones and Smashmouth, I'm a Believer

Saturday, September 22, 2012:

LAFAYETTE 13 @ BUCKNELL 17: after the game Carney's friend, yes folks according to his post on the Lafayette board he has one, inquires how he can get so upset about his schools club team losing to some other collection of academic wonks. more importantly, was it really necessary to break his new flat screen?

FORDHAM 42 @ Columbia 14: the value of scholarships finally beginning to be demonstrated at Fordham. how much longer will this battle for supremacy of NYC last?

Dartmouth 21 @ HOLY CROSS 14: qb issue undoes the Cross' ability to score

COLGATE 16 @ Stony Brook 35: Colgate forum erupts with compaints of why are we playing an upstart like Stony Brook, our tradition is to play nationally known programs.

LEHIGH 24 @ Liberty 21: two teams underperforming epectations so far this year, but underperforming with wins trumps underperforming in losses.

[Franks Tanks]

Something I would have thought of, perhaps, along with that infamous little tune from Little Feat's "Waiting for Columbus," and several others.

Except that Tavani made abundantly clear that the infraction came nowhere near that level. You're making it seem as if we allow our players to slack off in made-up majors like "Supply Chain Management" or whatever, just so they don't have to apply themselves academically in the same way as other PL athletes. Could you imagine?

Yes, Frank made it clear that Shoop did not break one of his 3 "core" rules. One of these core rules is drug use so that is NOT what Shoop was suspended for. It is my guess that Shoop violated curfew or perhaps didn't show up for a meeting, class or study hall. Frank takes class attendance very seriously and just one missed class without an excuse can lead to a one game suspension.

[Pard4Life]

Yes, Frank made it clear that Shoop did not break one of his 3 "core" rules. One of these core rules is drug use so that is NOT what Shoop was suspended for. It is my guess that Shoop violated curfew or perhaps didn't show up for a meeting, class or study hall. Frank takes class attendance very seriously and just one missed class without an excuse can lead to a one game suspension.

Or maybe he referred to the coach as Frankosaur. Or maybe he insulted Dan Weiss. Or maybe he wrote an editorial on the right to free association. The possibilities are endless.

[Go Green]

Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS – The Indians just aren’t that good.



Butler would disagree with you.

[RichH2]

Welcome to our little zoo. Glad you made it over. Now ivytalk and bonarae will not be so lonely. Just need to get Brown and Cornell.

[carney2]

Or maybe he referred to the coach as Frankosaur. Or maybe he insulted Dan Weiss. Or maybe he wrote an editorial on the right to free association. The possibilities are endless.

Or dropped a course in the Gender Bender Department.

Yeah, yeah. Yuk it up Ken_Z. We'll see who's still smiling at 3:30 on Saturday.

The latest is that thunderstorms won't begin in Buffalo until after the game ends, but it will be close.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Or maybe he referred to the coach as Frankosaur. Or maybe he insulted Dan Weiss. Or maybe he wrote an editorial on the right to free association. The possibilities are endless.

One theory, that would embrace all three of your possibilities, is that he simply got caught reading the Lafayette Sports Forum.

[Pard4Life]

Butler would disagree with you.

A Dartmouth fan??? Welcome!

[Pard4Life]

One theory, that would embrace all three of your possibilities, is that he simply got caught reading the Lafayette Sports Forum.

I hope nobody on the team is reading that dribble... I really want Paul Reinhard to ask Frank if he is aware of the Frankosaurus.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LEHIGH 24 @ Liberty 21: two teams underperforming epectations so far this year, but underperforming with wins trumps underperforming in losses.

I think that's why I picked Lehigh, too, but you picked it in way fewer words than me.

[Fordham]

GEORGETOWN

LAFAYETTE

FORDHAM

HOLY CROSS

STONY BROOK (what a brutal schedule for 'gate!! I'll bet they're a tough out come PL time)

LEHIGH

[BucBisonAtLarge]

OK, kudos for the PL crew and friends for taking the pick 'em thread to 14 pages... great reading.

I'm betting on 8000+ in Christy's shrubbery tomorrow.

[Pard4Life]

Just read Shoop had his best career high school game in Bucknell's stadium, and that he is working and studying film harder than ever this week... need any further proof he is just going to go off?

[Pard4Life]

OK, kudos for the PL crew and friends for taking the pick 'em thread to 14 pages... great reading.

I'm betting on 8000+ in Christy's shrubbery tomorrow.

I've never been to a Bucknell game that didn't involve a sea of empty seats... should be fun to see fans. It's Family Day, so parking will be at a premium.

[Pard4Life]

In retrospect, 8000 may be pushing it... the record crowd is just over 10,000 for Christy Matthewson Stadium's 80th anniversary game in 2004, a thrilling 2OT loss to Penn. Bucknell was very good that year... six point loss to Villanova, 2OT loss at Penn, and weird loss to LC prevented them from having a nine-win season. Here is my favorite LC-BU game so far: http://www.bucknellbison.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/101604aaa.html

[ngineer]

Yes, Frank made it clear that Shoop did not break one of his 3 "core" rules. One of these core rules is drug use so that is NOT what Shoop was suspended for. It is my guess that Shoop violated curfew or perhaps didn't show up for a meeting, class or study hall. Frank takes class attendance very seriously and just one missed class without an excuse can lead to a one game suspension.

All I know is my source is one of 'you guys' and it wasn't Shoop's first 'run in' on the issue. I really hope he gets his act cleaned up since he certainly showed good talent at Wm & Mary. But it also caused me wonder about the seeming lackadaisical play of LC at times last year when there seemed to be a lack of focus. Just keep eyes out for a lot of snack bags on the sidelines (;-)

[Franks Tanks]

All I know is my source is one of 'you guys' and it wasn't Shoop's first 'run in' on the issue. I really hope he gets his act cleaned up since he certainly showed good talent at Wm & Mary. But it also caused me wonder about the seeming lackadaisical play of LC at times last year when there seemed to be a lack of focus. Just keep eyes out for a lot of snack bags on the sidelines (;-)

I think you heard wrong. Frank suspended our starting TB, and I believe 2 others, last year for several games the offense you are talking about.

What would use of the substance you are talking about have to do with lackadaisical play? For that to occur the entire team would have to do that before the game and I don't think that is plausible.

[Sader87]

5-2 last week, 14-4 for the year (2 of those 4 being picks for HC):

GTown 23 Princestone 10 Hoyas bounce back after giving away the game to Eli last week.

Lafayette 27 Bucknell 20 Tight game at Christy M but pards prevail and continue their hot start.

Fordham 24 Columbia 13 Battle of NYC goes to the Rams again for another year.

Holy Cross 30 Dartmouth 20 Jury still out on the Saders, just can't see them losing 3 straight at Fitton to start the year.

Stony Brook 38 Gate 17 Reach game for the PL this week...Seawolves too tough on Strong Island.

Liberty 24 Lehigh 21 Quasi upset of the week. Engineers though winning, haven't been too impressive in doing so, finally get tripped up down in Dixie.

[Pard4Life]

I think you heard wrong. Frank suspended our starting TB, and I believe 2 others, last year for several games the offense you are talking about.

What would use of the substance you are talking about have to do with lackadaisical play? For that to occur the entire team would have to do that before the game and I don't think that is plausible.

If anyone was caught using drugs before a game, I'm sure they would be immeadiately kicked off the team.

[Pard4Life]

5-2 last week, 14-4 for the year (2 of those 4 being picks for HC):

GTown 23 Princestone 10 Hoyas bounce back after giving away the game to Eli last week.

Lafayette 27 Bucknell 20 Tight game at Christy M but pards prevail and continue their hot start.

Fordham 24 Columbia 13 Battle of NYC goes to the Rams again for another year.

Holy Cross 30 Dartmouth 20 Jury still out on the Saders, just can't see them losing 3 straight at Fitton to start the year.

Stony Brook 38 Gate 17 Reach game for the PL this week...Seawolves too tough on Strong Island.

Liberty 24 Lehigh 21 Quasi upset of the week. Engineers though winning, haven't been too impressive in doing so, finally get tripped up down in Dixie.

I don't think Lehigh will win either, but I am really pulling for Lafayette and Lehigh to keep winning as much as possible.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I had an awful week last week. 2-5, and even the games that were right were wrong. 11-7 on the year. Hoping to reverse the curse this time around.

Lehigh 28, Liberty 24. Read why here (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/09/game-4-breakdown-lehigh-at-liberty.html).

Princeton 20, Georgetown 16. The big question to me: is there carryover from the Hoyas' heartbreaking loss to Yale last weekend? I think that, plus Princeton's improvement, plus the date on national television, translates into a Tiger win.

Lafayette 20, Bucknell 6. Saw enough of the bad old offense last week to make me think that the Bison won't get it together this week. Also, you know the Frankosaurus circled this game on the calendar. Was there a special countdown clock? I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

Fordham 44, Columbia 7. Rams are just getting stronger, and they'll be looking to thump the cross town rival Lions.

Dartmouth 24, Holy Cross 17. Big Green gets Deep Purple at the right time - in-between quarterbacks.

Stony Brook 30 Colgate 27. Just a hunch that this won't be the walkover some people think, as Colgate has been improving week to week and Stony Brook is coming off a tough, emotional game vs. Syracuse.

[Pard4Life]

Lafayette 20, Bucknell 6. Saw enough of the bad old offense last week to make me think that the Bison won't get it together this week. Also, you know the Frankosaurus circled this game on the calendar. Was there a special countdown clock? I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

You never cease to amaze me... we are not good enough to hold a team to six points.

I don't know about that FU-CU score, those games are always closer than they should be... here is Columbia's performance: http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/ivyleague/columbia/opponents_records.php?teamid=1124

[ColgateTD]

STONY BROOK (what a brutal schedule for 'gate!! I'll bet they're a tough out come PL time)


One can only hope, but I doubt it. Most Red Raider fans are predicting 3-4 wins this year.

[Go...gate]

Fordham 26, Columbia 14

Princeton 19, Georgetown 17

Holy Cross 23, Dartmouth 20

Stony Brook 35, Colgate 24

Lafayette 30, Bucknell 14

Lehigh 28, Liberty 26

[Pard4Life]

Seems like the consensus is:

Holy Cross
Stony Brook
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh

Toss up: Princeton/Gtown

[Sam]

I give Colgate credit they are taking on a challenging schedule if coach Biddle keeps their heads in the right direction they will be able to take the experience into the league play?

[bulldog10jw]

Butler would disagree with you.

Welcome to AGS, GG. Where's your Dartmouth helmet?

[Seawolf97]

I had an awful week last week. 2-5, and even the games that were right were wrong. 11-7 on the year. Hoping to reverse the curse this time around.

Lehigh 28, Liberty 24. Read why here (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/09/game-4-breakdown-lehigh-at-liberty.html).

Princeton 20, Georgetown 16. The big question to me: is there carryover from the Hoyas' heartbreaking loss to Yale last weekend? I think that, plus Princeton's improvement, plus the date on national television, translates into a Tiger win.

Lafayette 20, Bucknell 6. Saw enough of the bad old offense last week to make me think that the Bison won't get it together this week. Also, you know the Frankosaurus circled this game on the calendar. Was there a special countdown clock? I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

Fordham 44, Columbia 7. Rams are just getting stronger, and they'll be looking to thump the cross town rival Lions.

Dartmouth 24, Holy Cross 17. Big Green gets Deep Purple at the right time - in-between quarterbacks.

Stony Brook 30 Colgate 27. Just a hunch that this won't be the walkover some people think, as Colgate has been improving week to week and Stony Brook is coming off a tough, emotional game vs. Syracuse.

It might be close but this is our Homecoming Game so emotions will be high for sure.

[ColgateTD]

Hoyas pull out the close win, 21-20. Guess I won't go 6-0 this week.

[Go Green]

Welcome to AGS, GG. Where's your Dartmouth helmet?

Thanks!

Still trying to figure out board. Would love to add 1990s Dartmouth helmet. Your Yale helmet is outdated already!!

[ngineer]

I think you heard wrong. Frank suspended our starting TB, and I believe 2 others, last year for several games the offense you are talking about.

What would use of the substance you are talking about have to do with lackadaisical play? For that to occur the entire team would have to do that before the game and I don't think that is plausible.

Didn't mean to imply the 'whole team' was giving a 'token effort. However is a few were involved in such behavior it can have an effect on others around them even if they are not directly participating. I recall Frank making some comments last year after some of the games that he was perplexed about the focus and intensity of some of the players. If you don't have all guys moving in the same direction, there is bound to be dissension. I would hope he has hit the issue straight on and has everyone's attention. Being a college coach 'supervising' about 100 young guys with the academic challenges, football obligations and "other diversions" probably keeps a few up at night.

[Andy]

Yes, Frank made it clear that Shoop did not break one of his 3 "core" rules. One of these core rules is drug use so that is NOT what Shoop was suspended for. It is my guess that Shoop violated curfew or perhaps didn't show up for a meeting, class or study hall. Frank takes class attendance very seriously and just one missed class without an excuse can lead to a one game suspension.

We know it was a minor violation and that it occurred the week prior to the W & M game. That week Shoop tweeted what could be considered a mild taunt at the Tribe. That's my guess as to the offense.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Would love to add 1990s Dartmouth helmet.

Here ya go. You can load it directly in as your avatar from General Settings.


http://imageshack.us/a/img69/4310/dartmouthold.gif

[Lehigh Football Nation]

We know it was a minor violation and that it occurred the week prior to the W & M game. That week Shoop tweeted what could be considered a mild taunt at the Tribe. That's my guess as to the offense.

Seems logical. And I would think every Patriot League athlete would be awfully careful with their Tweets these days.

In other news, my dreadful record of picking continues, severely underestimating Princeton's ability to grab defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Your Yale helmet is outdated already!!

Several helmets on the AGS avatar page are outdated, including Princeton, Yale (both of which changed for 2012) and Lafayette (which is a decade out of date on AGS). Here are the current, updated versions for these schools:


http://imageshack.us/a/img838/1675/yaleold2.gif

http://imageshack.us/a/img155/9407/princeton.gif

http://imageshack.us/a/img59/5872/lafhelmetav160x106.png

[Go Green]

Here ya go. You can load it directly in as your avatar from General Settings.


http://imageshack.us/a/img69/4310/dartmouthold.gif

Thanks so much!!!

[Go Green]

Dartmouth @ HOLY CROSS – The Indians just aren’t that good.



I get that HC didn't have their starting QB today, and I get that makes a big difference.

But Dartmouth is now 4-1 against the Patriot League in the last three seasons. While we're not quite at the 1970s or 1990s levels (yet), we can safely say that the 2000s are over for Dartmouth.

[Pards Rule]

Or dropped a course in the Gender Bender Department.

Yeah, yeah. Yuk it up Ken_Z. We'll see who's still smiling at 3:30 on Saturday.

The latest is that thunderstorms won't begin in Buffalo until after the game ends, but it will be close.

Not quite...I left a 7PM and not a drop or threat to be seen. Good game - my first there since 1986! Had an impromptu tailgate with Asst. Coach Dougherty's parents, Joe, Joe friends and a Bison asst coach Matt Borich (friend of Joe's from GA days at Dickinson) joined too. My mini Pard (NOT the "moth-eaten" relic from my freshman year at LC in 1980 that Carney likes to diss) that someone gave me and I pulled out of my bookcase to desperately turn the good luck charm tide is now 2-0. As Joe said today, "keep him coming!" Turning "him" over it may not be the right gender but "it" will have more appearances to make this year. In fact, at Lehigh it may very well be the original moth-eaten varmit with the mini-Pard on top a la space shuttle!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I had an awful week last week. 2-5, and even the games that were right were wrong. 11-7 on the year. Hoping to reverse the curse this time around.

Lehigh 28, Liberty 24. Read why here (http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/09/game-4-breakdown-lehigh-at-liberty.html).

Princeton 20, Georgetown 16. The big question to me: is there carryover from the Hoyas' heartbreaking loss to Yale last weekend? I think that, plus Princeton's improvement, plus the date on national television, translates into a Tiger win.

Lafayette 20, Bucknell 6. Saw enough of the bad old offense last week to make me think that the Bison won't get it together this week. Also, you know the Frankosaurus circled this game on the calendar. Was there a special countdown clock? I wouldn't be surprised if there was.

Fordham 44, Columbia 7. Rams are just getting stronger, and they'll be looking to thump the cross town rival Lions.

Dartmouth 24, Holy Cross 17. Big Green gets Deep Purple at the right time - in-between quarterbacks.

Stony Brook 30 Colgate 27. Just a hunch that this won't be the walkover some people think, as Colgate has been improving week to week and Stony Brook is coming off a tough, emotional game vs. Syracuse.

5-1. Absolutely nailed Lafayette, Lehigh, Stony Brook games. I'm a Princeton meltdown away from being completely back.

[Pards Rule]

OK, kudos for the PL crew and friends for taking the pick 'em thread to 14 pages... great reading.

I'm betting on 8000+ in Christy's shrubbery tomorrow.

Seemed to be a good crowd and think that was a reasonable number. Totally bizarre how the home teams locker room is under visiting stands and vice versa? Explanation? I asked a Bisonite keeping fans from walking near the Pard locker room about it and he said "ya know, its been that way for a long time" so I'm still awaiting an answer...Ken??

[Pards Rule]

I get that HC didn't have their starting QB today, and I get that makes a big difference.

But Dartmouth is now 4-1 against the Patriot League in the last three seasons. While we're not quite at the 1970s or 1990s levels (yet), we can safely say that the 2000s are over for Dartmouth.

Hey when do we play Green again? Its been awhile and I'm ready for a trip to the Northland!

[Sader87]

5-2 last week, 14-4 for the year (2 of those 4 being picks for HC):

GTown 23 Princestone 10 Hoyas bounce back after giving away the game to Eli last week.

Lafayette 27 Bucknell 20 Tight game at Christy M but pards prevail and continue their hot start.

Fordham 24 Columbia 13 Battle of NYC goes to the Rams again for another year.

Holy Cross 30 Dartmouth 20 Jury still out on the Saders, just can't see them losing 3 straight at Fitton to start the year.

Stony Brook 38 Gate 17 Reach game for the PL this week...Seawolves too tough on Strong Island.

Liberty 24 Lehigh 21 Quasi upset of the week. Engineers though winning, haven't been too impressive in doing so, finally get tripped up down in Dixie.

4-2....18-6

Nightmarish start continues for the men in Purple. On to Allston this Friday night....doesn't look promising.

Nice job by Lehigh pulling that one out late on the road and to the Red Raiders giving SBU all they could handle.

[RichH2]

Not a bad week. Congrats to Pards, Rams, Hoyas , Gate made it a close game vs tough SB team. Cross w/o their qb lost a squeaker to Dartmouth. Pards 3-0. Would not be surprised to see them ranked this week.

[Engineer86]

Not a bad week. Congrats to Pards, Rams, Hoyas , Gate made it a close game vs tough SB team. Cross w/o their qb lost a squeaker to Dartmouth. Pards 3-0. Would not be surprised to see them ranked this week.

Considering the "cupcakes" on Laugheyette's schedule I can see a huge game on Nov. 17. When was the last time both teams have been undefeated going into this game?

[Go...gate]

I give Colgate credit they are taking on a challenging schedule if coach Biddle keeps their heads in the right direction they will be able to take the experience into the league play?

The schedule certainly cannot hurt. Still a full PL slate ahead.

[Engineer86]

The schedule certainly cannot hurt. Still a full PL slate ahead.

I applaud your schedule great OOC.

[carney2]

Seemed to be a good crowd and think that was a reasonable number.

Announced attendance in Buffalo for the Lafayette game was 5,254.

[ngineer]

Announced attendance in Buffalo for the Lafayette game was 5,254.
That's a pretty good crowd for Bucknell.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I can see a huge game on Nov. 17. When was the last time both teams have been undefeated going into this game?

Much too early even to suggest such a thing of course. But undefeated Lafayette and Lehigh playing for the PL title? All would be as it should be in our little corner of college football. And let's make it a nailbiter down to the last snap of the football. A white-knuckle, beer-spilling, name-calling brawl. May our respective administrations call out in vain for restraint of barbaric displays of emotion amongst overly zealous alumni.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Considering the "cupcakes" on Laugheyette's schedule I can see a huge game on Nov. 17. When was the last time both teams have been undefeated going into this game?

You have to go back to 1925 to find out the last time Lehigh was undefeated through three games and Lafayette was undefeated through three games (Lehigh went 2-0-1 and Laf went 3-0-0). This happened again in 1924, and you have to go all the way back to 1907 as to the last time both Lehigh and Lafayette went 4-0-0 in the same year, playing colleges liike Hamiltion, Ursinus, and... Jefferson Medical College. (Though Lafayette beat Colgate, and Lehigh beat Rutgers.)

Strange to think that in all those years and all those teams, Lehigh and Lafayette were not both good at the same time, early in the year. But it's true. Generally, when one has thrived, the other has usually been in the dumps.

Both teams finished 7-2-1 that year. Lafayette, who played a much tougher schedule (losing only to Penn and Navy, and tying Syracuse), beat Lehigh 22-5.

[Bogus Megapardus]

playing colleges liike Hamiltion, Ursinus, and... Jefferson Medical College.

Aww, c'mon, LFN. Mustn't dis Jefferson Medical. Heck of a rugby team they have, still to this day. And I have close family ties. xrolleyesx

Besides, do you realize how many PL alums go there every year? It's almost a captive graduate school. :D

[Pard4Life]

We've never been good at the same time because Lafayette was great between 1880s and 1950, while Lehigh was bad. And Lafayette was abysmal from the late 1950s through 1981. We had the study while Lehigh was a top team.

[Bogus Megapardus]

We've never been good at the same time because Lafayette was great between 1880s and 1950, while Lehigh was bad. And Lafayette was abysmal from the late 1950s through 1981. We had the study while Lehigh was a top team.

We don't mention "The Study" in polite company, P4L. It's unseemly.

[Pard4Life]

At least we are honest about our sad state affairs and not deny our embarrassments, like unwilling to admit that we have players who can't read and take phony majors, like someone else in the PL.

[Bogus Megapardus]

At least we are honest about our sad state affairs and not deny our embarrassments, like unwilling to admit that we have players who can't read and take phony majors, like someone else in the PL.

Point taken, P4L. I agree.

Except that the Lehigh grad who folds my laundry still is able to separate my shirts by color. That has to be worth something, at least.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

At least we are honest about our sad state affairs and not deny our embarrassments, like unwilling to admit that we have players who can't read and take phony majors, like someone else in the PL.

Too low, dude. There are no Dexter Manleys in the PL. You know this.

[RichH2]

Aw LFN, they have been beating that drum nonstop. Perhaps it will abate if their team turns out to be real not just a mirage. We should be considerate of our friends at that little quaint college as it is unlikely that violent sports will last much longer over there.. Tennis, frisbee croos country are much more gender friendly. Their new Rivalry will be with much more PC than brutish Lehigh that ,gasp, allows fraternities and sorories to thrive.

[Pard4Life]

Our team is a mirage? Who gets handled by Liberty and wins? Nearly chokes to the "worst team in FCS"? We've never trailed this year.

I'm sure your team can read ie ABCs. But I doubt it's any literature beyond Clifford the Big Red Dog.

[Bogus Megapardus]

But I doubt it's any literature beyond Clifford the Big Red Dog.

P4L, you're never at a loss for providing great ideas for Lehigh week avatars. Thanks!



http://www.partysuppliespronto.com/images/Clifford_the_Big_Red_Dog1.jpg

[ngineer]

At least we are honest about our sad state affairs and not deny our embarrassments, like unwilling to admit that we have players who can't read and take phony majors, like someone else in the PL.

What's with this constant drum of phony majors? That's not only juvenile, but ludicrous. It's like the poor ol' "S-A-T" chants the Ivies used to do while getting hammered on the field. It's a loser chant. But if the shoe fits...

[Bogus Megapardus]

But if the shoe fits...

It doesn't, and therein lies the problem. Shoe salesman always has been a challenging profession for Lehigh grads, given the math involved . . . xnodx

[RichH2]

So then why does LU ,along with Gate, top the PL in grad income? And you rely on math to bolster your snipe. Really? Current Pards would have a hard time with math. Heck, does Swarthmore North even offer math. I dont mean remedial for gender studies majors.

[Franks Tanks]

So then why does LU ,along with Gate, top the PL in grad income? And you rely on math to bolster your snipe. Really? Current Pards would have a hard time with math. Heck, does Swarthmore North even offer math. I dont mean remedial for gender studies majors.

Rich, as long at Lehigh Football grad rates sit in the mid to low 80's such questions are valid. Obviously Lehigh attracts high quality students, but the performace of the Lehigh Football team in the classroom has been less than stellar of late. Unless grad rates improve drastically it is hard to say that Lehigh football players are representative of their peers.

[Pard4Life]

So then why does LU ,along with Gate, top the PL in grad income? And you rely on math to bolster your snipe. Really? Current Pards would have a hard time with math. Heck, does Swarthmore North even offer math. I dont mean remedial for gender studies majors.

I assume the 1% pay their servants and service staff well.

[Pard4Life]

Tanks it's lower than that... try mid 70s per the GSR report.

[RichH2]

No denial that the number is valid. And it is a prime target for teasing. I've got no problem with Pards going after us for it. All the more aggravating, I admit but a fair target. As usual some go overboard, I've seen worse over the years.

Now ,I just cant help it. Of course our dip was a temporary anomaly, the Pard morph a permanent emasculation.