MVFC to FBS?

[MSUBear42]

Tweet from Uni's AD:

LJ has a point……say tuned..
RT @i_Serve24: #UNI needs to go D1 already, give us those extra 20 scholarships and watch what we do with it!

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Much to do about nothing.

[TheRevSFA]

UNI is already D1. Just saying...

[NoDak 4 Ever]

At least they'll have an excuse for not winning a championship.

[clenz]

I'm not sure where you get the "MVFC IS GOING FBS" thing from. This was a tweet by UNI's athletic director....the person he retweeted was former UNI LB (who now starts for the Cleveland Browns) L.J. Fort.

This could be "much ado about nothing", but Dannen is a smart person, he doesn't just "put things out there". There is something going on. I know the athletic department has had some very serious discussions about this the last couple years, they've just kept it quite unlike most schools that end up looking foolish with the "WE GOING FBS! THIS CONFERENCE IS THE CHOICE" then the conference says "NO" and you're left holding a raging boner for nothing.


I know the MAC is looking for at least one more (possibly 5 as they've said they wouldn't mind 18 teams). If UNI is looking at this as a football only move it might work for the department. HOWEVER, I do not see UNI doing anything that requires us to take the rest of our sports from the Missouri Valley Conference.

[Laker]

I would be surprised if UNI went to FBS but I guess anything can happen. Incarnate Word has come out of nowhere to get into the Southland- I hadn't even heard of the school until a few years ago. But wasn't there talk of UNI possibly dropping sports just a few years ago? Didn't they drop baseball? Just wondering where this money would come from.

Agreed- the MAC would be the place to go if they did.

[MSUBear42]

Hasn't it long been rumored Illinois State was going to the MAC?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[clenz]

I would be surprised if UNI went to FBS but I guess anything can happen. Incarnate Word has come out of nowhere to get into the Southland- I hadn't even heard of the school until a few years ago. But wasn't there talk of UNI possibly dropping sports just a few years ago? Didn't they drop baseball? Just wondering where this money would come from.

Agreed- the MAC would be the place to go if they did.No, there has never been talk about UNI dropping sports. Baseball was dropped, but after that the AD has promised not to drop any more sports.

There was a feasibility study done a couple years ago looking at all options (FBS, stay FCS, go FCS Non-sholly, D2, drop football) and the potential impact it would have on the university. FCS and FBS were 1/2 in the results with everything else WAY behind.

[clenz]

Hasn't it long been rumored Illinois State was going to the MAC?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2Not that I know of. I know they've been public with wanting to move, but that has been it. Any rumors to a conference (which I haven't heard) have just been message board speak

[BisonBacker]

I'm not sure where you get the "MVFC IS GOING FBS" thing from. This was a tweet by UNI's athletic director....the person he retweeted was former UNI LB (who now starts for the Cleveland Browns) L.J. Fort.

This could be "much ado about nothing", but Dannen is a smart person, he doesn't just "put things out there". There is something going on. I know the athletic department has had some very serious discussions about this the last couple years, they've just kept it quite unlike most schools that end up looking foolish with the "WE GOING FBS! THIS CONFERENCE IS THE CHOICE" then the conference says "NO" and you're left holding a raging boner for nothing.


I know the MAC is looking for at least one more (possibly 5 as they've said they wouldn't mind 18 teams). If UNI is looking at this as a football only move it might work for the department. HOWEVER, I do not see UNI doing anything that requires us to take the rest of our sports from the Missouri Valley Conference.

I don't see that happening at all. If the MVFC was to make that move I think the teams outside of the MVC like NDSU, SDSU, USD would much rather see it be an all sports conference. I don't see the Dakota schools viewing the Summit as a permanent home. Yeah it would be great for UNI and the other schools who play all sports in the MVC but leave the Dakota's at a disadvantage IMO.

[ysubigred]

I would be surprised if UNI went to FBS but I guess anything can happen. Incarnate Word has come out of nowhere to get into the Southland- I hadn't even heard of the school until a few years ago. But wasn't there talk of UNI possibly dropping sports just a few years ago? Didn't they drop baseball? Just wondering where this money would come from.

Agreed- the MAC would be the place to go if they did.

Back in Y-towns glory days (Tressel era) YSU was supposed to go to the MAC. Rumors were Kent State and Akron voted YSU out because of the annual *** whipping we gave them. The real truth was $$. To get into the FBS is big $$ and some sources I know at YSU said we can't afford it that's why we've never made the leap, so I doubt anybody else in the MVFC can unless they have large donors/booster. The MAC would be Ideal and make sense for YSU. Our travel budget would consist of buying a new bus LOL and a sack lunch for the players!!

[Laker]

Back in Y-towns glory days (Tressel era) YSU was supposed to go to the MAC. Rumors were Kent State and Akron voted YSU out because of the annual *** whipping we gave them. The real truth was $$. To get into the FBS is big $$ and some sources I know at YSU said we can't afford it that's why we've never made the leap, so I doubt anybody else in the MVFC can unless they have large donors/booster. The MAC would be Ideal and make sense for YSU. Our travel budget would consist of buying a new bus LOL and a sack lunch for the players!!

I wondered why the Penguins weren't in the MAC after all of their success with Tressel. Most of your travel would be pretty short and you would be rivals with a lot of teams. Thanks for the info.

[MSUBear42]

I wondered why the Penguins weren't in the MAC after all of their success with Tressel. Most of your travel would be pretty short and you would be rivals with a lot of teams. Thanks for the info.

That, coupled with the size of the Ice Castle and now their IPF, seems like a natural fit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[TheBisonator]

I don't see that happening at all. If the MVFC was to make that move I think the teams outside of the MVC like NDSU, SDSU, USD would much rather see it be an all sports conference. I don't see the Dakota schools viewing the Summit as a permanent home. Yeah it would be great for UNI and the other schools who play all sports in the MVC but leave the Dakota's at a disadvantage IMO.

You are correct, the Summit is nowhere near a permanent home for NDSU/SDSU/USD.

[Mr. C]

Just like with the CAA talk in this direction, why can't people understand that the NCAA bylaws do not allow a conference that is FCS to move up as a group? It would take MAJOR legislative work for something like this to come about and the folks who have the votes needed for this type of change are not going to invite leagues like the MVFC and the CAA to the party.

[Mr. C]

I wondered why the Penguins weren't in the MAC after all of their success with Tressel. Most of your travel would be pretty short and you would be rivals with a lot of teams. Thanks for the info.

Youngstown State applied to move to the MAC in 1996, the same time that Marshall moved up. There were strong reports that YSU was going to be accepted along with Marshall, but the MAC inexplicably went with Buffalo instead (like that program added a lot to the MAC). The reasons given at the time for YSU's reject was that there was some jealousy from the other Ohio schools towards Tressel (and as we know now, concerns about NCAA rules violations) and the MAC didn't like how bad the rest of the YSU program was, though Marshall's overall program was pretty poor as well and I'm still trying to figure out what they saw in Buffalo.

[penguinpower]

Youngstown State applied to move to the MAC in 1996, the same time that Marshall moved up. There were strong reports that YSU was going to be accepted along with Marshall, but the MAC inexplicably went with Buffalo instead (like that program added a lot to the MAC). The reasons given at the time for YSU's reject was that there was some jealousy from the other Ohio schools towards Tressel (and as we know now, concerns about NCAA rules violations) and the MAC didn't like how bad the rest of the YSU program was, though Marshall's overall program was pretty poor as well and I'm still trying to figure out what they saw in Buffalo.

Yes and Akron and Kent had a hand in the vote. They were the two schools in the MAC that made the difference in the vote. Our overall program was probably equal to Marshall's at the time, both very football oriented. Buffalo however, was far worse in Football, but I suspect they had bigger donors of $$$$.

[Paladin1aa]

YSU, at the time, would have had to DOUBLE their athletic budget to satisfy the MAC. And at the time, Youngstown was in an economic downturn. No one saw the ability to raise more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. The story concludes with both Kent St and Akron voting against YSU as they were getting beat like drums and badly outrecruited. YSU then moved the rest of their athletics to the Horizon League, leaving FB in the Gateway ( soon to be MVFC). The MAC also had an unfavorable view of an off campus baseball stadium ( home to the Class A Mahoning Valley Scrappers -- a new & classy facility) that YSU played. Far better than all the MAC schools.For most fans, the MAC is the league of choice, but didn't happen and probably won't.

[ValleyChamp]

I don't see that happening at all. If the MVFC was to make that move I think the teams outside of the MVC like NDSU, SDSU, USD would much rather see it be an all sports conference. I don't see the Dakota schools viewing the Summit as a permanent home. Yeah it would be great for UNI and the other schools who play all sports in the MVC but leave the Dakota's at a disadvantage IMO.

So?

I know the Dakota's would like to think they could leverage something like this into a better all-sports conference, but 1) that's unlikely and 2) it sure isn't going to stop them or anyone else that has the desire to make a potentially beneficial move to the FBS.

[Twentysix]

Haha, UNI needs to find the end of a rainbow before they are going FBS.

Realistically most of the MVFC couldn't pull half the money, required to make the jump, toghether.

[BisonBacker]

So?

I know the Dakota's would like to think they could leverage something like this into a better all-sports conference, but 1) that's unlikely and 2) it sure isn't going to stop them or anyone else that has the desire to make a potentially beneficial move to the FBS.

I know you have a dislike for NDSU per previous posts about NDSU not getting into the MVC. But the fact is as Twentysix just pointed out and correctly so the finances needed to make the move are not there for most if not all MVFC schools. I'm not even going to go into the financial debacle UNI is faced with over the last 5 years. You are the small fish in Iowa and because of that your states legislature surely isn't going to dole out more cash to you at the expense of the states two flagship schools just so UNI can make a jump to the IA level. I'm not sure if that is what the chip is on your shoulder about NDSU but whether you like it or not NDSU is one of the Two flagship schools in ND but that is another subject.

[ValleyChamp]

I know you have a dislike for NDSU per previous posts about NDSU not getting into the MVC. But the fact is as Twentysix just pointed out and correctly so the finances needed to make the move are not there for most if not all MVFC schools. I'm not even going to go into the financial debacle UNI is faced with over the last 5 years. You are the small fish in Iowa and because of that your states legislature surely isn't going to dole out more cash to you at the expense of the states two flagship schools just so UNI can make a jump to the IA level. I'm not sure if that is what the chip is on your shoulder about NDSU but whether you like it or not NDSU is one of the Two flagship schools in ND but that is another subject.

What the hell are you talking about?

This isn't about NDSU. I never said anything about NDSU. I made a very general point pertaining to all Dakota schools, regarding a multi-team move up to the FBS level.

[MplsBison]

I-AA teams can't decide to move up anymore on their own. They have to be invited. I don't see why it would be any different if a whole I-AA conference approached the NCAA about moving up. They'd probably say "no."

So that said, if you use 15k stadium seating capacity as a wonky kind of checkbox for being ready to move up, only Indiana St wouldn't meet the requirement. Illinois St has official phased renovation plans up to 25k, while I have not seen any official plans from IN St. All others have stadium capacities at least 15k.

[Gil Dobie]

Wonder if much of the oil money would go towards NDSU and UND for a FBS move in the future.

[ST_Lawson]

I'd hate to see teams leave (for the most part, I like the current membership of the MVFC) but schools have to do what they feel is best for their situation.

As for us, Illinois has no money whatsoever. Western and Eastern are the two smallest state schools that have football teams, so I don't see us going anywhere any time soon. We'd pretty much have to pull an extended version of what we did in '96-'03 (72-26, 4 conference championships, 5-4 against I-A) and have a HUGE infusion of money for facilities improvements for any FBS conference to even give us a second glance. I love my school, I bleed purple and gold, but I'm realistic in the estimation that it'll be a long time (if ever) before we're considered for an FBS conference.

[clenz]

Sounds as though UNI just announced their intention to go FBS ASAP


http://wcfcourier.com/sports/college/uni/dollars_and_sense/uni-football-may-face-a-choice-go-big-or-go/article_d2b41c56-723f-5c8a-83be-85c3d277f42d.html
CEDAR FALLS, Iowa --- One of the toughest decisions facing many college athletic departments with Football Championship Subdivision programs is what, if anything, to do with football.
It's a marquee sport that is at once both the beauty and the beast.
Football generates the most direct revenue through gate receipts and guarantee games, and often the most indirect streams of income through donations, advertising and the sale of merchandise.
And while it's impossible to quantify, there is also a value in terms of what football can do for a university's branding, marketing and visibility in its efforts to attract students.
At the same time, football is easily the most expensive sport because of scholarship costs, large coaching staffs, travel and equipment. At the University of Northern Iowa, for example, football revenues were approximately $961,000 in 2011 while expenses topped $2.8 million. Scholarships and salaries accounted for nearly $2.1 million of the cost.
The issue for administrators is how to close that gap between revenue and expense. One option receiving more consideration than ever is moving up to the Football Bowl Subdivision.
It's one that is certainly on the minds of UNI athletic director Troy Dannen and his football head coach, Mark Farley, as they consider not only the future of Panther football, but the future of Panther athletics in general.
"I'm not so sure we shouldn't be looking to move up in football," says Dannen.
There hasn't been a rush of teams jumping to the FBS level in recent years, but there's evidence to indicate that may change as more programs try to get in on the financial windfall created by today's television contracts, bowl opportunities and the new playoff system.
"I think it's the right time to make the move," adds Farley. "There is a window of opportunity here because of all the restructuring of conferences and the restructuring of the playoff system.
"There's a lot of research that needs to be done, but I believe this is an opportunity much like it was years ago when we were Division II going up to I-AA."
Five programs have already announced their intentions to move from the FCS to the FBS in the near future. Texas State, South Alabama and Texas-San Antonio are on their way up. Old Dominion and North Carolina-Charlotte will join them in 2015.
Charlotte will begin play at the FCS level next season before moving up.
"I've pushed it for 20 years," said Judy Rose, the school's athletic director for the past 22 years, in an interview with the Associated Press. "Not necessarily because I love football, but because of what is happening today with intercollegiate athletics. We had invested so much in our athletics program that I had this fear of what happens if we didn't?"
"I've certainly been ahead of the pack in urging us to crawl first, and then walk, and then run --- in that order," added Chancellor Philip Dubois. "But when opportunity knocks in Division I athletics, it is surely not the Avon lady.
"It's the right move for today and it's an even better move for tomorrow."
Montana, Appalachian State, Massachusetts, Villanova, James Madison, Georgia Southern, Delaware, Jacksonville State, Montana State, Cal Poly, Northern Arizona, Cal-Davis, Lamar, Liberty and North Dakota State are among other FCS schools that have considered or are still discussing the possibility.
"I think with the new playoff system, the financial model changes for those schools who are bowl-eligible just because of the amount of money that's going to be there, and because of where we're located from a conference structure," Dannen explains. "The Valley wouldn't have to touch any sport other than football.
"The No. 1 hindrance to doing it is for the 22 scholarship we would add on the male side, we'd be adding 22 scholarships on the female side. That's where it becomes cost-prohibitive. It's not football, it's the other requirements we would need to take care of to comply with Title IX.
"As I've told a lot of our coaches, 'You want this and that's fine and it makes sense for your program, but double it because that's the true cost.' That's not a negative against any women's program. It's just the fact of the matter in how you run this business."
UNI commissioned a "Football Feasibility Study" completed in 2010 by Alden and Associates, Inc., a firm that does executive search and consulting for higher education. It looked at four primary options --- remaining at the FCS level with scholarships, playing FCS non-scholarship football, moving to the FBS and dropping football. The study concluded that in 2010, UNI was playing at the level where it should be playing.
Now the landscape is changing.
"It's a new era we're going into starting in 2014," says Farley. "If you get in on the front end, you have the opportunity to grow as it expands. If you come in on the back end, who knows if you will have that same opportunity?"
On the field, UNI has tangled with a number of programs that have since made the jump from FCS to FBS. That list includes Boise State, Marshall, Idaho, Northeast Louisiana, Nevada-Reno and Western Kentucky, which was on the verge of dropping football just a few years ago.
The Panthers have also enjoyed some defining moments against FBS foes like Iowa and Iowa State in recent years that have elevated the university's position in the state's academic and athletic heirarchy.
"We're competitive enough today that we could make that move and be competitive at the mid-major (FBS) level," says Farley.
"The only drawback for us is that now we actually go into every season knowing we have an opportunity to win a national championship. If we were a mid-major FBS team, the revenue would be better but yet you wouldn't be playing for that national title."
If UNI doesn't move forward, Farley fears, it will be left behind --- in more ways than one.
"Ever since I started recruiting here as a young coach, you can go into any home in the state or read about any kid getting recruited right now in any sport and most of those kids will say they're looking at Iowa, Iowa State and UNI. That shows how kids tie us to those other universities that are Big Ten and Big 12 but much different than us in terms of money.
"If a kid is thinking like that as a student-athlete, what are other kids thinking when they start looking at Iowa, Iowa State or UNI? Now, I think, they have to go compare the academics.
"If we lose that, we'll be just like any Division II or Division III school."

[MplsBison]

I'd hate to see teams leave (for the most part, I like the current membership of the MVFC) but schools have to do what they feel is best for their situation.

As for us, Illinois has no money whatsoever. Western and Eastern are the two smallest state schools that have football teams, so I don't see us going anywhere any time soon. We'd pretty much have to pull an extended version of what we did in '96-'03 (72-26, 4 conference championships, 5-4 against I-A) and have a HUGE infusion of money for facilities improvements for any FBS conference to even give us a second glance. I love my school, I bleed purple and gold, but I'm realistic in the estimation that it'll be a long time (if ever) before we're considered for an FBS conference.

Disregarding the academic institution part of it and strictly looking from a football program perspective.....how much gap is there really between Western and Northern? Southern and Northern? State and Northern?

[BisonBacker]

Sounds as though UNI just announced their intention to go FBS ASAP


http://wcfcourier.com/sports/college/uni/dollars_and_sense/uni-football-may-face-a-choice-go-big-or-go/article_d2b41c56-723f-5c8a-83be-85c3d277f42d.html
CEDAR FALLS, Iowa --- One of the toughest decisions facing many college athletic departments with Football Championship Subdivision programs is what, if anything, to do with football.
It's a marquee sport that is at once both the beauty and the beast.
Football generates the most direct revenue through gate receipts and guarantee games, and often the most indirect streams of income through donations, advertising and the sale of merchandise.
And while it's impossible to quantify, there is also a value in terms of what football can do for a university's branding, marketing and visibility in its efforts to attract students.
At the same time, football is easily the most expensive sport because of scholarship costs, large coaching staffs, travel and equipment. At the University of Northern Iowa, for example, football revenues were approximately $961,000 in 2011 while expenses topped $2.8 million. Scholarships and salaries accounted for nearly $2.1 million of the cost.
The issue for administrators is how to close that gap between revenue and expense. One option receiving more consideration than ever is moving up to the Football Bowl Subdivision.
It's one that is certainly on the minds of UNI athletic director Troy Dannen and his football head coach, Mark Farley, as they consider not only the future of Panther football, but the future of Panther athletics in general.
"I'm not so sure we shouldn't be looking to move up in football," says Dannen.
There hasn't been a rush of teams jumping to the FBS level in recent years, but there's evidence to indicate that may change as more programs try to get in on the financial windfall created by today's television contracts, bowl opportunities and the new playoff system.
"I think it's the right time to make the move," adds Farley. "There is a window of opportunity here because of all the restructuring of conferences and the restructuring of the playoff system.
"There's a lot of research that needs to be done, but I believe this is an opportunity much like it was years ago when we were Division II going up to I-AA."
Five programs have already announced their intentions to move from the FCS to the FBS in the near future. Texas State, South Alabama and Texas-San Antonio are on their way up. Old Dominion and North Carolina-Charlotte will join them in 2015.
Charlotte will begin play at the FCS level next season before moving up.
"I've pushed it for 20 years," said Judy Rose, the school's athletic director for the past 22 years, in an interview with the Associated Press. "Not necessarily because I love football, but because of what is happening today with intercollegiate athletics. We had invested so much in our athletics program that I had this fear of what happens if we didn't?"
"I've certainly been ahead of the pack in urging us to crawl first, and then walk, and then run --- in that order," added Chancellor Philip Dubois. "But when opportunity knocks in Division I athletics, it is surely not the Avon lady.
"It's the right move for today and it's an even better move for tomorrow."
Montana, Appalachian State, Massachusetts, Villanova, James Madison, Georgia Southern, Delaware, Jacksonville State, Montana State, Cal Poly, Northern Arizona, Cal-Davis, Lamar, Liberty and North Dakota State are among other FCS schools that have considered or are still discussing the possibility.
"I think with the new playoff system, the financial model changes for those schools who are bowl-eligible just because of the amount of money that's going to be there, and because of where we're located from a conference structure," Dannen explains. "The Valley wouldn't have to touch any sport other than football.
"The No. 1 hindrance to doing it is for the 22 scholarship we would add on the male side, we'd be adding 22 scholarships on the female side. That's where it becomes cost-prohibitive. It's not football, it's the other requirements we would need to take care of to comply with Title IX.
"As I've told a lot of our coaches, 'You want this and that's fine and it makes sense for your program, but double it because that's the true cost.' That's not a negative against any women's program. It's just the fact of the matter in how you run this business."
UNI commissioned a "Football Feasibility Study" completed in 2010 by Alden and Associates, Inc., a firm that does executive search and consulting for higher education. It looked at four primary options --- remaining at the FCS level with scholarships, playing FCS non-scholarship football, moving to the FBS and dropping football. The study concluded that in 2010, UNI was playing at the level where it should be playing.
Now the landscape is changing.
"It's a new era we're going into starting in 2014," says Farley. "If you get in on the front end, you have the opportunity to grow as it expands. If you come in on the back end, who knows if you will have that same opportunity?"
On the field, UNI has tangled with a number of programs that have since made the jump from FCS to FBS. That list includes Boise State, Marshall, Idaho, Northeast Louisiana, Nevada-Reno and Western Kentucky, which was on the verge of dropping football just a few years ago.
The Panthers have also enjoyed some defining moments against FBS foes like Iowa and Iowa State in recent years that have elevated the university's position in the state's academic and athletic heirarchy.
"We're competitive enough today that we could make that move and be competitive at the mid-major (FBS) level," says Farley.
"The only drawback for us is that now we actually go into every season knowing we have an opportunity to win a national championship. If we were a mid-major FBS team, the revenue would be better but yet you wouldn't be playing for that national title."
If UNI doesn't move forward, Farley fears, it will be left behind --- in more ways than one.
"Ever since I started recruiting here as a young coach, you can go into any home in the state or read about any kid getting recruited right now in any sport and most of those kids will say they're looking at Iowa, Iowa State and UNI. That shows how kids tie us to those other universities that are Big Ten and Big 12 but much different than us in terms of money.
"If a kid is thinking like that as a student-athlete, what are other kids thinking when they start looking at Iowa, Iowa State or UNI? Now, I think, they have to go compare the academics.
"If we lose that, we'll be just like any Division II or Division III school."


Good Luck with that. What the hell conference are you going to be in?

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'll be interested to see what UNI does about their stadium situation. The Dome would work for a couple years in the MAC. However, a long term solution would have to be put into place. Otherwise, UNI could end up like Idaho.

[unigriff]

All logical and regional estimates say the MAC, if not the C-USA.

[unigriff]

I'll be interested to see what UNI does about their stadium situation. The Dome would work for a couple years in the MAC. However, a long term solution would have to be put into place. Otherwise, UNI could end up like Idaho.

I think they'd be okay for the first few years. It really depends on success. Well how do you define success to keep afloat...is it a winning season early in your transition, a bowl bid, conference title?, etc. The ONLY thing is right now is to go get butts in the seats or at least a ticket paid for. I think if they can do this for a couple years...break even or make money, then the talk of a new stadium could occur...I'll say 5 years minimum before that happens. You really could put more seats in the Dome if they wanted to really do some construction but the cost may be just as much as building a newer 30k seat stadium after it is all said and done.

[clenz]

Right now, none.

They aren't saying we are going soon, our setting an expectation like other schools have...ASU...simply saying when they opprtunity comes it will be taken.

Likely the mac though

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[clenz]

There is also a very strong rumor that uni is leaving the western wrestling conference for the mac, partially to get the mac schools familiar with uni

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[BisonBacker]

There is also a strong rumor flying pigs have been spotted......


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8b9EckGPx0

Wait it's not a rumor!.....

Ok on a serious note until they have a conference invite and can show the money I"ll believe it. I think for you guys the biggest stumbling block is the money. Hell it was just a couple short years ago you cut baseball due to financial cuts from the state to UNI. I honestly can't see Iowa with three FBS teams. Just don't see the cyclones or the hawkeyes standing still for this one. To much pressure will be levied at the state level against a move like that if it means more cash to UNI at the expense of those two. xtwocentsx

[totoinfl]

For your sake I would hope MAC...C-USA is a mess. The C-USA/MWC football agreement is kind of an indicator.


All logical and regional estimates say the MAC, if not the C-USA.

[clenz]

iowa and iowa state won't have much of a say

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Twentysix]

iowa and iowa state won't have much of a say

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

You found the rainbow! Where was it?

[BisonBacker]

iowa and iowa state won't have much of a say

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

You must be smoking some good stuff!!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

iowa and iowa state won't have much of a say

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

They might have more say than you think. I know the hurdles Temple had to jump through with Villanova and we're a major state school. Plus, all the bull crap PSU and Paterno pulled back in the late 70's, early 80's that really hurt Temple and Pitt along with FBS football in general in the Northeast.

[Laker]

iowa and iowa state won't have much of a say

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

I'd be surprised at that. The University of Minnesota dominates the say in this state- same with the University of Wisconsin and the University of Nebraska in theirs. Iowa and Iowa State won't want a third party cutting in.

[clenz]

Minnesota and wisconsin schools are ask in the same system...the three iowa schools are not

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[PantherRob82]

Not sure why our stadium would need to change since we average higher attendance than a few MAC teams.

Also, we're taking NDSU and Illinois State with us. ;)

[Laker]

Minnesota and wisconsin schools are ask in the same system...the three iowa schools are not

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

No- Twin Cities, Duluth, Morris and Crookston are in the same system. Bemidji, Mankato, Metro, Moorhead, Saint Cloud, Southwest, Winona and the community college/technical schools at in MNSCU which is a different system.

[totoinfl]

Your Treat!!!:D:D


Not sure why our stadium would need to change since we average higher attendance than a few MAC teams.

Also, we're taking NDSU and Illinois State with us. ;)

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not sure why our stadium would need to change since we average higher attendance than a few MAC teams.

Also, we're taking NDSU and Illinois State with us. ;)

MAC teams are able to get some quality OOC opponents to play at their digs.

I think UNI would have a very difficult time getting BCS teams to come to the dome. Michigan St is at CMU this week, Boise St played at Toledo last year, Ohio has hosted Pitt, Umass will get some solid games at Gillette etc.

[MplsBison]

UNI could maybe host some Big Ten school in Mpls, like Northern Illinois just did for Iowa. Likewise for NDSU and maybe ILL St in Chicago as well or St Louis or Indy (depending on the opponent).

Thing is though, how are all the Ohio, Michigan schools and Northern Illinois going to feel about UNI, NDSU and Ill St (not to mention maybe Youngstown St?) crashing the party? How big can the MAC get for football?


One nice thing though for the MVFC schools is that they wouldn't have to move their bball from the Summit or MVC.

[justintyem]

I'm not sure where you get the "MVFC IS GOING FBS" thing from. This was a tweet by UNI's athletic director....the person he retweeted was former UNI LB (who now starts for the Cleveland Browns) L.J. Fort.

This could be "much ado about nothing", but Dannen is a smart person, he doesn't just "put things out there". There is something going on. I know the athletic department has had some very serious discussions about this the last couple years, they've just kept it quite unlike most schools that end up looking foolish with the "WE GOING FBS! THIS CONFERENCE IS THE CHOICE" then the conference says "NO" and you're left holding a raging boner for nothing.


I know the MAC is looking for at least one more (possibly 5 as they've said they wouldn't mind 18 teams). If UNI is looking at this as a football only move it might work for the department. HOWEVER, I do not see UNI doing anything that requires us to take the rest of our sports from the Missouri Valley Conference.

First of all,LJ Fort isnt the starting MLB for the Browns he is a back-up. And second of all,The Pansies are affraid of the Bison and want to get away from them as quick as the can. How many years have the Pansies been in D-1,and How many National Championships in football do they have??? And visa versa for the Bison??? Thats what I thought,Purple Pansies suck(just like the Vikings) and Green and Gold wins nothing but Championships(Just like the Packers).

[UNIFanSince1983]

First of all,LJ Fort isnt the starting MLB for the Browns he is a back-up. And second of all,The Pansies are affraid of the Bison and want to get away from them as quick as the can. How many years have the Pansies been in D-1,and How many National Championships in football do they have??? And visa versa for the Bison??? Thats what I thought,Purple Pansies suck(just like the Vikings) and Green and Gold wins nothing but Championships(Just like the Packers).

This guy sounds familiar...

[clenz]

Bisonville let their ****tards out of their cages.

Dont worry, ndsu will make the move in 30 years.

And lj is starting this week http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/brandon_weeden_offensive_line.html


Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[justintyem]

Bisonville let their ****tards out of their cages.

Dont worry, ndsu will make the move in 30 years.

And lj is starting this week http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/brandon_weeden_offensive_line.html


Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2Ill take it,congrats to LJ !!!!! But the Pansies still suck!!!!

[Professor Chaos]

UNI has a 36 year old facility, they've recently had to drop baseball due to financial instability in the athletic department, and their football team is starting to play two FBS money games per year to try to cover the massive budget hit football is already costing them. Tell me how again is moving to FBS feasible there?

[clenz]

UNI has a 36 year old facility, they've recently had to drop baseball due to financial instability in the athletic department, and their football team is starting to play two FBS money games per year to try to cover the massive budget hit football is already costing them. Tell me how again is moving to FBS feasible there?
The UNIDome is in fantastic shape, with more upgrades done to it every year. At some point a new stadium will be needed, but the Dome is great right now.

Baseball was dropped (like it was at many institutions across the nation the last decade) because it is a money hog with zero revenue. Does it suck? Yep, but Iowa State also dropped baseball because of what it costs - does that mean ISU has money issues (keep in mind the Iowa BOR has given Iowa State the same speech they've given UNI about money).

The budget at UNI isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as people want to believe and twist it to be.



Also, no one has said the move is going to happen next year, or in the next 5. The intention, however, has now been made clear that there is a goal that we are now working towards.

[frozennorth]

I think NDSU announces a move to the mwc or mac within the decade, likely along with sdsu.

[clenz]

UNI could maybe host some Big Ten school in Mpls, like Northern Illinois just did for Iowa. Likewise for NDSU and maybe ILL St in Chicago as well or St Louis or Indy (depending on the opponent).

Thing is though, how are all the Ohio, Michigan schools and Northern Illinois going to feel about UNI, NDSU and Ill St (not to mention maybe Youngstown St?) crashing the party? How big can the MAC get for football?


One nice thing though for the MVFC schools is that they wouldn't have to move their bball from the Summit or MVC.
The MAC is on record as stating they want 18 with a fairly nice down the middle geographic split. 9 one each side, play all teams on your side and then conference title game.

The MAC may require all sports to move though, which may mean UNI stays put. I know the MAC required UMASS to move all sports to the MAC.

[MplsBison]

The MAC is on record as stating they want 18 with a fairly nice down the middle geographic split. 9 one each side, play all teams on your side and then conference title game.

The MAC may require all sports to move though, which may mean UNI stays put. I know the MAC required UMASS to move all sports to the MAC.

I don't see anything in the A10 or MAC wikipedia pages about UMass joining the MAC as a full member. I love the membership timelines on those conference wiki pages and they're usually pretty accurate.

Do you have a recent newspaper article or something stating that they are?


If what you say about the 18 is true then I suppose you could have this for football only:

West 9 -
UMass - Buffalo - Kent - Akron - Youngstown - Ohio - Miami - Bowling Green - Toledo

East 9 -
East Mich - Central Mich - West Mich - Ball St - Northern Ill - Ill St - UNI - NDSU - ???? SDSU? SIU?


I do very much think that UNI and NDSU could survive quite well in the MAC with their respective domes as is for a while. SDSU if they do their full facility master plan build out would blow both programs away. xbawlingx

[ValleyChamp]

First of all,LJ Fort isnt the starting MLB for the Browns he is a back-up. And second of all,The Pansies are affraid of the Bison and want to get away from them as quick as the can. How many years have the Pansies been in D-1,and How many National Championships in football do they have??? And visa versa for the Bison??? Thats what I thought,Purple Pansies suck(just like the Vikings) and Green and Gold wins nothing but Championships(Just like the Packers).

I literally could not envision a more perfect personification of the Bison fan stereotype. Congrats, retard.

[mgbison]

NDSU may have some of the most ridiculous posters on the internet. It's just embarrassing. Holy ****. I really hope some of our fans don't believe their own stupidity.

Anyways, I'm for UNI moving up. Mainly because I want to see NDSU move up and UNI making the move would force our administrations hand.

[frozennorth]

It would be nice if other obnoxious bison trolls at least had good grammar and more importantly, formatting.

[penguinpower]

What is the point of moving up? The chances of being a Boise State are very small, otherwse with moving up you need to learn to be satisfied with being mediocre. The chances are that you will never play in a BCS bowl game are very small but if you have a medocre 6-5 season you can plan to play in the jock strap cup bowl and you will never have a chance at being a ranked top 10 teamat that level or play for a national title. At least at this level a a football team can remain relevant to the fans because the NC is achievable if you are able to win your conference championship and enter the playoff field. I just do not see the advantage, especially after watching what happened to Marshall and WKU. It didn't take long for them to fall off the radar and become irrelevant in football. Boise had a unique situation where there was a lot of corporate money available in the Boise metropolitan area and those businesses provide the revenue to fuel the football engine. If you are struggling with supporting any team sport, then moving up is a mistake in my opinion. By the what what is UMASS up to these days? Haven't heard a word about that football factory?

[MSUBear42]

Not sure what it's like around Youngstown, but here in Missouri, we may as well be a D2 school because that is how 99 % of the region views fcs. It gets rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyyy old having to defend our level of play.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Not sure what it's like around Youngstown, but here in Missouri, we may as well be a D2 school because that is how 99 % of the region views fcs. It gets rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyyy old having to defend our level of play.

I literally had to do this yesterday on Facebook. With Iowa playing Iowa State this weekend it gets really bad.

I hear people talk about us not having the "money". While it may be true we need money moving to FBS oddly would give us some more. If you read the articles you will see that moving up gets you more revenue due to Television, and Bowl revenues. There would probably be more marketing revenue, and I am pretty sure we would get more fans in the Dome to watch if we were playing at the "highest level". The downside is we would have to add 22 scholarships for football as well as 22 women's scholarships. That right there might just even everything out. I really hope they do their research on the financial impact and I am sure they will/have.

[penguinpower]

Not sure what it's like around Youngstown, but here in Missouri, we may as well be a D2 school because that is how 99 % of the region views fcs. It gets rrrreeeeaaaallllyyyyy old having to defend our level of play.

Sounds like what you really want is media coverage. FCS teams need to keep beating FBS teams to get more recognition. In addition, the FCS level needs to be reorganized so that the landscape of the this division is simplified for the average idiot. Idiots can't follow the Ivy League and NAIA under the same "level" of football being grouped together. They don't follow autobid conferences either. It is way too confusing and few of the conferences do a great job in advertising.

[MplsBison]

UNI has a 36 year old facility, they've recently had to drop baseball due to financial instability in the athletic department, and their football team is starting to play two FBS money games per year to try to cover the massive budget hit football is already costing them. Tell me how again is moving to FBS feasible there?

Honest to goodness....who gives two ___ about college baseball in the upper midwest? You gotta be friggin kiddin me.

Until the NCAA allows the season to start in May and go through the summer (with CWS on labor day weekend), college baseball is effectively irrelevent except in California, Texas and SEC/ACC country. Fine.


Wisconsin (Madison) dropped baseball too. Do you look down upon them for it?



Frankly, NDSU got very lucky that Newman field was built, on-campus, for the Redhawks. Without that, NDSU baseball would have a very similar facility to the softball team (bare bones).

[MplsBison]

Sounds like what you really want is media coverage. FCS teams need to keep beating FBS teams to get more recognition. In addition, the FCS level needs to be reorganized so that the landscape of the this division is simplified for the average idiot. Idiots can't follow the Ivy League and NAIA under the same "level" of football being grouped together. They don't follow autobid conferences either. It is way too confusing and few of the conferences do a great job in advertising.

Never happen. Sorry - it simply won't.

I-AA playoff football is never, ever going to get any more media coverage or attention than it gets now. Doesn matter how many I-AA teams pick off a game from I-A teams each season.

[MplsBison]

What is the point of moving up? The chances of being a Boise State are very small, otherwse with moving up you need to learn to be satisfied with being mediocre. The chances are that you will never play in a BCS bowl game are very small but if you have a medocre 6-5 season you can plan to play in the jock strap cup bowl and you will never have a chance at being a ranked top 10 teamat that level or play for a national title. At least at this level a a football team can remain relevant to the fans because the NC is achievable if you are able to win your conference championship and enter the playoff field. I just do not see the advantage, especially after watching what happened to Marshall and WKU. It didn't take long for them to fall off the radar and become irrelevant in football. Boise had a unique situation where there was a lot of corporate money available in the Boise metropolitan area and those businesses provide the revenue to fuel the football engine. If you are struggling with supporting any team sport, then moving up is a mistake in my opinion. By the what what is UMASS up to these days? Haven't heard a word about that football factory?

You absolutely need to understand that a "move up", you're talking about joining the MAC.

Point being, the MAC gets more exposure and respect than I-AA football gets. Their bowl games get more attention and coverage on ESPN than the I-AA championship. Maybe not a bunch more, but more. I-AA is analogous to minor league baseball while the MAC is analogous to the San Diego Padres or Houston Astros. They may not win much of anything, but they still get talked about.


I'd take the MAC over I-AA any day of the week if it was my choice to make, but that's just me. And I understand there will be plenty of people at the various schools who will want to stay in I-AA and play for "a championship". Of course, what good is being a champion of a division that no one cares about?

[totoinfl]

It is about money...how many MAC teams went to bowl games therefore collecting more TV revenue and bowl revenue for their conference to split up? Without looking, probably 2 or 3. As long as the bowl landscape allows 6 win teams in, there will be money flowing for FBS teams. The next step is develop tie-ins for your conference to bowls with better payouts and getting the supporters to travel. BSU is an example of the little school that could...development in to a top 10 team is whole different discussion from getting to FBS and playing in the bowl money grab.


What is the point of moving up? The chances of being a Boise State are very small, otherwse with moving up you need to learn to be satisfied with being mediocre. The chances are that you will never play in a BCS bowl game are very small but if you have a medocre 6-5 season you can plan to play in the jock strap cup bowl and you will never have a chance at being a ranked top 10 teamat that level or play for a national title. At least at this level a a football team can remain relevant to the fans because the NC is achievable if you are able to win your conference championship and enter the playoff field. I just do not see the advantage, especially after watching what happened to Marshall and WKU. It didn't take long for them to fall off the radar and become irrelevant in football. Boise had a unique situation where there was a lot of corporate money available in the Boise metropolitan area and those businesses provide the revenue to fuel the football engine. If you are struggling with supporting any team sport, then moving up is a mistake in my opinion. By the what what is UMASS up to these days? Haven't heard a word about that football factory?

[BisonBacker]

Bisonville let their ****tards out of their cages.

Dont worry, ndsu will make the move in 30 years.

And lj is starting this week http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/brandon_weeden_offensive_line.html


Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Clenz, listen I am not leaning right now one way or the other as to which way NDSU should go on this but the truth of the matter is for both UNI and NDSU the $$$$$$ it would take to make the move is a huge problem. The State of North Dakota is flush with Cash yet I don't see that benefiting NDSU now or necessarily in the future. But either way I'm all for us staying with our peer institutions and yeah we were late to the party for DI FCS and I don't want to see us be left out again but on the other hand I just don't see a move right now necessarily being the right thing without a conference to move into. I surely don't see the MVFC as a whole moving it's just not going to happen. So many obstacles to overcome but the biggest being $$$$$$$. I'd love to see NDSU, UNI, SDSU, Montana, Montana State and a few others make a move but that's a pipe dream right now to. If Montana isn't moving I sure don't see with the sellouts they have for football in a larger stadium than UNI would try it.

I'd say the two biggest hurdles are Money required to make the move and lack of a conference to be in.

[BisonBacker]

NDSU may have some of the most ridiculous posters on the internet. It's just embarrassing. Holy ****. I really hope some of our fans don't believe their own stupidity.

Anyways, I'm for UNI moving up. Mainly because I want to see NDSU move up and UNI making the move would force our administrations hand.

I wholeheartedly agree with the first part. The last comment I'd agree with only if the conference and the funding of the move were in place and neither of those are even close. Hell we can't even get the remainder of the cash together to finalize the BSA upgrade. :(

[BisonBacker]

What is the point of moving up? The chances of being a Boise State are very small, otherwse with moving up you need to learn to be satisfied with being mediocre. The chances are that you will never play in a BCS bowl game are very small but if you have a medocre 6-5 season you can plan to play in the jock strap cup bowl and you will never have a chance at being a ranked top 10 teamat that level or play for a national title. At least at this level a a football team can remain relevant to the fans because the NC is achievable if you are able to win your conference championship and enter the playoff field. I just do not see the advantage, especially after watching what happened to Marshall and WKU. It didn't take long for them to fall off the radar and become irrelevant in football. Boise had a unique situation where there was a lot of corporate money available in the Boise metropolitan area and those businesses provide the revenue to fuel the football engine. If you are struggling with supporting any team sport, then moving up is a mistake in my opinion. By the what what is UMASS up to these days? Haven't heard a word about that football factory?

To go one point further look at how Boise got completely screwed ater being one of the top if not thee top team in the country. Bottom line about BCS is none of our schools will ever be invited or elevated to that status. To me the only benefit is being able to stay in the same company as your peer schools in conference such UNI, SDSU, Montana ect (if they were to make the move up).

[MplsBison]

It is about money...how many MAC teams went to bowl games therefore collecting more TV revenue and bowl revenue for their conference to split up? Without looking, probably 2 or 3. As long as the bowl landscape allows 6 win teams in, there will be money flowing for FBS teams. The next step is develop tie-ins for your conference to bowls with better payouts and getting the supporters to travel. BSU is an example of the little school that could...development in to a top 10 team is whole different discussion from getting to FBS and playing in the bowl money grab.

Also don't forget that the MAC teams either had or have (not sure anymore) a partnership with Big 10 schools either for guarantee games or 2-for-1's (again not sure). I do know a lot of Big 10 teams play MAC teams and sometimes even at the MAC site.

Getting the Gophers to come to Fargo would be simply impossible as an I-AA team. As a MAC team? Probably still unlikely but a 2-for-1 would not be impossible.


And payouts for guarantee games are much higher to I-A teams, usually closer to $1million.

[MplsBison]

I wholeheartedly agree with the first part. The last comment I'd agree with only if the conference and the funding of the move were in place and neither of those are even close. Hell we can't even get the remainder of the cash together to finalize the BSA upgrade. :(

That's because it's not for football. No one cares about NDSU basketball (except in 2009 march madness, only then did they come out of the woodwork), as much as the handful of bball blowhards want you to think the other way.

If football needs something, the checks will (eventually) get written.

[Professor Chaos]

The UNIDome is in fantastic shape, with more upgrades done to it every year. At some point a new stadium will be needed, but the Dome is great right now.

Baseball was dropped (like it was at many institutions across the nation the last decade) because it is a money hog with zero revenue. Does it suck? Yep, but Iowa State also dropped baseball because of what it costs - does that mean ISU has money issues (keep in mind the Iowa BOR has given Iowa State the same speech they've given UNI about money).

The budget at UNI isn't perfect, but it isn't as bad as people want to believe and twist it to be.



Also, no one has said the move is going to happen next year, or in the next 5. The intention, however, has now been made clear that there is a goal that we are now working towards.
I agree it's good to set that goal but it's seems a long, long way away for the administration to already be publicly planting that seed. What happens in 10 years if they still haven't made the move? They'll try to fund raise for it and people are going to say "I donated money 10 years ago for this and we're in the same place we are now. I'm not giving a dime more for it". Maybe I'm reading too much into the AD's and chancellor's comments but it sounds like they've got the cart before the horse here.

[BisonBacker]

I agree it's good to set that goal but it's seems a long, long way away for the administration to already be publicly planting that seed. What happens in 10 years if they still haven't made the move? They'll try to fund raise for it and people are going to say "I donated money 10 years ago for this and we're in the same place we are now. I'm not giving a dime more for it". Maybe I'm reading too much into the AD's and chancellor's comments but it sounds like they've got the cart before the horse here.

My question would be if they did the study in 2010 and said they are where they should be what has changed in the last two years at UNI to now make the 2010 study wrong or validate a move up now. In reading the quotes in this thread from UNI's coach and admin it sounds it's more like a keeping up with the joneses without regard to What has UNI done differently in the last two years to make a move like this now the right thing to do? UNI is a respected power at this level, at the next they will be another also ran like so many others that have become irrelevant.

[ST_Lawson]

Disregarding the academic institution part of it and strictly looking from a football program perspective.....how much gap is there really between Western and Northern? Southern and Northern? State and Northern?

Strictly looking at the football program, the biggest difference right now I'd say is facilities.
NIU's Huskie Stadium holds just over 30k fans
WIU's Hanson Field holds just over 17k
SIU's Saluki Stadium holds 15k
ISU's Hancock Stadium will hold (when current expansion is finished), ~15k

WIU's stadium is the oldest of all four of the stadiums, having been built in 1950, and parts of it are really showing. At this point, we've got sections that need pretty major repairs and don't have the money to complete them (west side stands, scoreboard). If you just look at the east half of the stands, the new entrances, concession stands and turf on the field, then it looks great, but parts are in SERIOUS need of work.
New west side stands are in the "planning" stage, but at this point, it could be quite a few years before that happens.

So, technically we're larger than the Kibbie Dome, but I think most of us agree that Idaho doesn't really have much business being in FBS anyway.

If you're looking at how competitive the Illinois public schools are with someone like NIU, on a more long-term basis, we're not too far off.
WIU beat NIU in '96, '99, and '02 but then lost to them in '09. We've also beaten Ball State (2000) and Eastern Michigan ('03). Lately we have had a rough go of things, and NIU has had quite a bit more success. Also in recent years, SIU narrowly lost to Eastern Michigan ('02), lost by 1 point to NIU ('04) and then beat NIU ('07). Illinois State hasn't had as much success historically against the MAC, but they play Eastern Michigan tomorrow and have a very good shot at winning that one.

I don't really know if there's an easy way to check what various programs spend for football (and what the sources of revenue are), but in general, SIU, ISU and NIU are all larger schools, closer to much larger-populated areas and have quite a few more options in terms of obtaining sponsorships and donations from large companies.

SIU and ISU (as well as Northern Iowa...trying to keep it somewhat thread-related) all play the rest of their sports in the Missouri Valley Conference, one of the better basketball conferences that often play much more high-profile games (remember UNI knocking off Kansas in the 2010 tournament? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11394/index.htm)) than Western (Summit League) or Eastern (Ohio Valley). Because of this, I'd bet the athletics department overall at the MVFC/MVC schools in general get more financial support from alumni, fans, etc.; this in turn indirectly helps their football programs (this is just an educated guess, I don't have numbers to back this up...feel free to call me out on it if someone knows otherwise).

Western just recently signed on with a radio station group that GREATLY expanded the radio coverage of football broadcasts (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=50026&SPID=4963&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=205634711), something that we hope will eventually lead to more area support, donations, sponsorships, which could then help us get our facilities in order. If that happens, and if that coincides with extended on-field success (something UNI has been much better at then us), and if a conference like the MAC happens to be on the lookout for schools to add, then there's a slight chance it could happen for us, but that'd be a long ways out, and that's quite a few "IFs" that have to happen first.

[Thundar]

First of all,LJ Fort isnt the starting MLB for the Browns he is a back-up. And second of all,The Pansies are affraid of the Bison and want to get away from them as quick as the can. How many years have the Pansies been in D-1,and How many National Championships in football do they have??? And visa versa for the Bison??? Thats what I thought,Purple Pansies suck(just like the Vikings) and Green and Gold wins nothing but Championships(Just like the Packers).

Dude wtf, grow up

[DOME]

Mac would be a good football fit. Wouldn't surprise me if the big12 wanted a solid ball/vball/wrestling/track program....they will be wanting someone soon. Big12 would definitely require a big **** new stadium though.


In general I have mixed feelings about UNI moving up. Almost think it would make recruiting even harder to be a mid level fbs team rather than a top level fcs team.

[Gil Dobie]

I like being in a division that NDSU has a chance to win the National Championship. FBS, even with the playoff system that has been proposed, will only be BCS level schools.

[clenz]

My question would be if they did the study in 2010 and said they are where they should be what has changed in the last two years at UNI to now make the 2010 study wrong or validate a move up now. In reading the quotes in this thread from UNI's coach and admin it sounds it's more like a keeping up with the joneses without regard to What has UNI done differently in the last two years to make a move like this now the right thing to do? UNI is a respected power at this level, at the next they will be another also ran like so many others that have become irrelevant.

To an extent it is "keeping up with the joneses", but it's a preventative measure. There is a very strong feeling right now that the football landscape is going to change greatly...much like 79-82...at that time uni got a head of the curve and it's been awesome. It was a big risk then, and it would be now...don't you wish ndsu acted back them as well rather than way after the fact and just as the next movements started?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[UNIFanSince1983]

I like being in a division that NDSU has a chance to win the National Championship. FBS, even with the playoff system that has been proposed, will only be BCS level schools.

But as you may not get to hear as much as we do. "It isn't a real National Championship". I completely agree it is awesome to always been in the conversation, but all I can hear about is how we can't be compared to Iowa or ISU because it is a different level or it isn't a real "National Championship" even though it is DI.

[MplsBison]

But as you may not get to hear as much as we do. "It isn't a real National Championship". I completely agree it is awesome to always been in the conversation, but all I can hear about is how we can't be compared to Iowa or ISU because it is a different level or it isn't a real "National Championship" even though it is DI.

Yep I know 100% what you mean, because I feel the same way.

Not that I think NDSU will win the championship again this year (until proven otherwise against good competition, they're not good enough at passing the ball) - but I already sort've feel like "been there, done that" for the I-AA playoffs and championship. Would there be the same fever if NDSU went back to Frisco this season? I don't think any I-AA playoff or championship could top last season.

So the only way to turn up the excitement knob again, if you will, is to move up to the MAC and fight for a bowl game slot. I really do believe that (not trolling).

[justintyem]

I literally could not envision a more perfect personification of the Bison fan stereotype. Congrats, retard.

Thanks,Congrats to you too!!!!

[UNIFanSince1983]

So Darren Rovell just tweeted that Savannah State is getting 450k from FSU, FAMU is getting 650k from Oklahoma, but FBS WKU is getting 1mil from Alabama. So even taking money games at the FBS level is more lucrative.

[skinny_uncle]

So Darren Rovell just tweeted that Savannah State is getting 450k from FSU, FAMU is getting 650k from Oklahoma, but FBS WKU is getting 1mil from Alabama. So even taking money games at the FBS level is more lucrative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q

[LakesBison]

LAKESBISON APPROVES THIS THREAD! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

[MTfan4life]

LAKESBISON APPROVES THIS THREAD! MAKE IT HAPPEN!!

That's all they needed. The MVFC will be FBS as of tomorrow! xthumbsupx

[BisonBacker]

To an extent it is "keeping up with the joneses", but it's a preventative measure. There is a very strong feeling right now that the football landscape is going to change greatly...much like 79-82...at that time uni got a head of the curve and it's been awesome. It was a big risk then, and it would be now...don't you wish ndsu acted back them as well rather than way after the fact and just as the next movements started?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Been away from this thread for a little while. To answer your question Clenz absolutely I wish they would have made the move back years ago. But I don't see the advantage of playing up a level when there is nothing to play for. A nobody gives a **** bowl game will not replace or mean nearly as much as a playoff system and true champion in my eyes.

[BisonBacker]

But as you may not get to hear as much as we do. "It isn't a real National Championship". I completely agree it is awesome to always been in the conversation, but all I can hear about is how we can't be compared to Iowa or ISU because it is a different level or it isn't a real "National Championship" even though it is DI.

How is paying through the nose to make a move up to play as a FBS team and getting an invite to a meaningless bowl game going to change that? Folks are still going to see the schools formerly FCS as inferior. I would hazard a guess that a few FCS flagship schools with student enrollments similar to the current established FBS teams may get better recognition but the fact remains. You are not going to replace 75-125 years of history. Just as in every order of life there is a pecking order. This isn't a slam on UNI or any other school but just a matter of fact. The State schools such as Iowa and Iowa State are the flagships in Iowa. UNI is not and no matter how you want or try to change that it isn't going to happen. Montana State and The University of Montana are flagships in Montana. North Dakota State and The University of North Dakota are flagships. But still the Montana and Dakota schools with flagship universities can't just by throwing money and saying were FBS now get into the Dance with Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota and we are flagship schools. Bottom line you can thump your chest all you want about playing at a certain level but all one has to do is look at the lower tier FBS teams who currently play in obscurity and the shadow of the big schools and it is just another level of frustration. Go ahead spend the money to be another also ran if it makes you feel better to be able to say you are FBS. People are still going to view you the same way.

[BisonBacker]

So Darren Rovell just tweeted that Savannah State is getting 450k from FSU, FAMU is getting 650k from Oklahoma, but FBS WKU is getting 1mil from Alabama. So even taking money games at the FBS level is more lucrative.

Just getting paid more to be a whipping boy.

[Redbird Ray]

Strictly looking at the football program, the biggest difference right now I'd say is facilities.
NIU's Huskie Stadium holds just over 30k fans
WIU's Hanson Field holds just over 17k
SIU's Saluki Stadium holds 15k
ISU's Hancock Stadium will hold (when current expansion is finished), ~15k

WIU's stadium is the oldest of all four of the stadiums, having been built in 1950, and parts of it are really showing. At this point, we've got sections that need pretty major repairs and don't have the money to complete them (west side stands, scoreboard). If you just look at the east half of the stands, the new entrances, concession stands and turf on the field, then it looks great, but parts are in SERIOUS need of work.
New west side stands are in the "planning" stage, but at this point, it could be quite a few years before that happens.

So, technically we're larger than the Kibbie Dome, but I think most of us agree that Idaho doesn't really have much business being in FBS anyway.

If you're looking at how competitive the Illinois public schools are with someone like NIU, on a more long-term basis, we're not too far off.
WIU beat NIU in '96, '99, and '02 but then lost to them in '09. We've also beaten Ball State (2000) and Eastern Michigan ('03). Lately we have had a rough go of things, and NIU has had quite a bit more success. Also in recent years, SIU narrowly lost to Eastern Michigan ('02), lost by 1 point to NIU ('04) and then beat NIU ('07). Illinois State hasn't had as much success historically against the MAC, but they play Eastern Michigan tomorrow and have a very good shot at winning that one.

I don't really know if there's an easy way to check what various programs spend for football (and what the sources of revenue are), but in general, SIU, ISU and NIU are all larger schools, closer to much larger-populated areas and have quite a few more options in terms of obtaining sponsorships and donations from large companies.

SIU and ISU (as well as Northern Iowa...trying to keep it somewhat thread-related) all play the rest of their sports in the Missouri Valley Conference, one of the better basketball conferences that often play much more high-profile games (remember UNI knocking off Kansas in the 2010 tournament? (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/11394/index.htm)) than Western (Summit League) or Eastern (Ohio Valley). Because of this, I'd bet the athletics department overall at the MVFC/MVC schools in general get more financial support from alumni, fans, etc.; this in turn indirectly helps their football programs (this is just an educated guess, I don't have numbers to back this up...feel free to call me out on it if someone knows otherwise).

Western just recently signed on with a radio station group that GREATLY expanded the radio coverage of football broadcasts (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=50026&SPID=4963&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=205634711), something that we hope will eventually lead to more area support, donations, sponsorships, which could then help us get our facilities in order. If that happens, and if that coincides with extended on-field success (something UNI has been much better at then us), and if a conference like the MAC happens to be on the lookout for schools to add, then there's a slight chance it could happen for us, but that'd be a long ways out, and that's quite a few "IFs" that have to happen first.

Sorry to sidetrack here a bit, and I don't mean to come across as a hater here, bc I do enjoy visiting WIU and Macomb, but I've always wondered how in the hell you guys get 17k for Hanson's capacity? Westerns website seems to imply that with additional hillside seating, the capacity can go up to 19k. Seems like there's only 20-25 rows of seats on each sideline, which should produce a max of about 7,000 per sideline. Just seems like the stadium is way smaller than 17k. Not trying to start a fight or anything, just a stadium geek being curious.

[LakesBison]

I agree redbird. No way they can get more than 14,000 there. I've never seen it past 4000 myself

[Hambone]

I think NDSU announces a move to the mwc or mac within the decade, likely along with sdsu.

For some reason I'm seeing that from now on SDSU and USD are attached at the hip, so if NDSU does make such a move I'm not so sure it would be with SDSU unless all three (NDSU, SDSU, USD) go together. I just can't shake the feeling that within the next 10 years you will see the 4 Dakota schools and the 2 Montanas in a conference together, in a level that is equal to the MAC, MWC, SunBelt, etc.

[MplsBison]

I would say that NDSU and UNI should make the move together, with the MAC probably being the only possibility. And for football only.

Both schools have very nice homes for the other sports.

[No_Skill]

For some reason I'm seeing that from now on SDSU and USD are attached at the hip, so if NDSU does make such a move I'm not so sure it would be with SDSU unless all three (NDSU, SDSU, USD) go together. I just can't shake the feeling that within the next 10 years you will see the 4 Dakota schools and the 2 Montanas in a conference together, in a level that is equal to the MAC, MWC, SunBelt, etc.

If something like that was actually able to come together, I would be for it.

[BisonBacker]

]For some reason I'm seeing that from now on SDSU and USD are attached at the hip,[/B] so if NDSU does make such a move I'm not so sure it would be with SDSU unless all three (NDSU, SDSU, USD) go together. I just can't shake the feeling that within the next 10 years you will see the 4 Dakota schools and the 2 Montanas in a conference together, in a level that is equal to the MAC, MWC, SunBelt, etc.

Yeah just like they were 8 years ago??? I don't think so.


Just like with the CAA talk in this direction, why can't people understand that the NCAA bylaws do not allow a conference that is FCS to move up as a group? It would take MAJOR legislative work for something like this to come about and the folks who have the votes needed for this type of change are not going to invite leagues like the MVFC and the CAA to the party.

Without having to go read a ton of crap in the NCAA bylaws how would a new conference like the one hambone speculates on (which I don't think is going to happen) ever take shape?

I don't see the athletic budgets being able to take the hit to fund a move up in all the schools mentioned. All the talk of the additional revenue from a move up like this hasn't convinced me that it will be more than the cost of funding such a move. I have faith that our Administration that if a move was necessary we would be hearing about it long before any move was necessary. Last time I heard Gene Taylor asked about it the gist of his comments were "we are where we need to be right now and that he was cognizant of all that was going on in the FCS landscape" Those weren't his exact words but that was what I got from his comments. I don't think getting folks all riled up like they are at UNI is necessarily a good thing given the financial situation they have. The same could be said for NDSU in that they don't have near the funding in place to make such a move right now. it's all talk for the fans to chatter about which is ok but I'm not sold on it being the right move.

[Hambone]

Yeah just like they were 8 years ago??? I don't think so.



Without having to go read a ton of crap in the NCAA bylaws how would a new conference like the one hambone speculates on (which I don't think is going to happen) ever take shape?

I don't see the athletic budgets being able to take the hit to fund a move up in all the schools mentioned. All the talk of the additional revenue from a move up like this hasn't convinced me that it will be more than the cost of funding such a move. I have faith that our Administration that if a move was necessary we would be hearing about it long before any move was necessary. Last time I heard Gene Taylor asked about it the gist of his comments were "we are where we need to be right now and that he was cognizant of all that was going on in the FCS landscape" Those weren't his exact words but that was what I got from his comments. I don't think getting folks all riled up like they are at UNI is necessarily a good thing given the financial situation they have. The same could be said for NDSU in that they don't have near the funding in place to make such a move right now. it's all talk for the fans to chatter about which is ok but I'm not sold on it being the right move.

I've heard from someone closer to the SD political avenue than I that the two schools are a little more attached now, but I can't say for certain it's true. But the events of 8 or 9 years ago may have led to this closer attachment.

As for the other part of speculation, I'm not sure that it will require a "move up" if the top level breaks off. It's completely possible the next level moves down, and that could be how all the other schools could be in a conference together in that the shakeup of that magnitude could cause the NCAA to let certain schools by meeting certain conditions form a conference. I'm at the point where I won't ever say anything is impossible :)

[BisonBacker]

I've heard from someone closer to the SD political avenue than I that the two schools are a little more attached now, but I can't say for certain it's true. But the events of 8 or 9 years ago may have led to this closer attachment.

As for the other part of speculation, I'm not sure that it will require a "move up" if the top level breaks off. It's completely possible the next level moves down, and that could be how all the other schools could be in a conference together in that the shakeup of that magnitude could cause the NCAA to let certain schools by meeting certain conditions form a conference. I'm at the point where I won't ever say anything is impossible :)

You may or may not be right about the part I bolded but either way if that was to happen you would still have those clamoring for the move to happen because in their minds they are not competing with the big boys.

[ST_Lawson]

Sorry to sidetrack here a bit, and I don't mean to come across as a hater here, bc I do enjoy visiting WIU and Macomb, but I've always wondered how in the hell you guys get 17k for Hanson's capacity? Westerns website seems to imply that with additional hillside seating, the capacity can go up to 19k. Seems like there's only 20-25 rows of seats on each sideline, which should produce a max of about 7,000 per sideline. Just seems like the stadium is way smaller than 17k. Not trying to start a fight or anything, just a stadium geek being curious.

No problem. I don't know of any easy way to count aside from taking the #'s as our Athletic Dept. gives them. According to our Athletics website, it says that Hanson Field officially seats 16,368 people (http://www.goleathernecks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=12000&ATCLID=623319). After finding and scanning a high-res photo, on the home/pressbox side (west side, shown here in a representation of our turf before it was completed (http://www.wiu.edu/images/news/9034/9034_2421_1.jpg)), there are indeed 25 rows of seats that stretch pretty much exactly goal line to goal line. The new student/band/visitor side stands (east side) (http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2011/09/09/8784533/Hanson_Final1.jpg) there are also 25 rows of seats that stretch pretty much the same length, plus an additional 10 rows that extend off of either side for another maybe 15 yards or so (just using the field measurements to estimate).

Comparing to the new Saluki Stadium (which looks really nice, btw), it looks like you have ~20 rows, but a full horseshoe shape (did my best guess of # of rows from this photo (http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/silu/sports/m-footbl/auto_original/4788564.jpeg), if I'm off, let me know). Your athletics website is saying 15k fans, which does seem a bit odd. I would think that either yours would be a little higher our ours would be a little lower. I don't know if they estimate a certain # of fans on the hills at our place (it's possible...there's ALWAYS some people who choose to sit on the hillsides, even when there's empty stadium seats) or what.

So, short answer...I don't know how they reach that number. If I get a chance, I may count # of seats in a row next time I'm out there to see if I can get a better estimate.

***EDIT***
Sorry, Redbird Ray...I don't know why but for some reason my brain registered you as an SIU guy, not an ISU guy. Anyway, one of our own fans just posted on our message board that they were thinking something similar, and they were calculating maybe 12k, plus a bit on the hills and wondering where our Athletics Dept was getting their numbers. We're not entirely sure, but it does seem a little high for the size of stadium.

Also, the plans for your new renovations look really nice as well. Wouldn't mind something similar to that for our east side (home/pressbox side) stands.

[RabidRabbit]

Originally Posted by BisonBacker
Yeah just like they were 8 years ago??? I don't think so.



Without having to go read a ton of crap in the NCAA bylaws how would a new conference like the one hambone speculates on (which I don't think is going to happen) ever take shape?

I don't see the athletic budgets being able to take the hit to fund a move up in all the schools mentioned. All the talk of the additional revenue from a move up like this hasn't convinced me that it will be more than the cost of funding such a move. I have faith that our Administration that if a move was necessary we would be hearing about it long before any move was necessary. Last time I heard Gene Taylor asked about it the gist of his comments were "we are where we need to be right now and that he was cognizant of all that was going on in the FCS landscape" Those weren't his exact words but that was what I got from his comments. I don't think getting folks all riled up like they are at UNI is necessarily a good thing given the financial situation they have. The same could be said for NDSU in that they don't have near the funding in place to make such a move right now. it's all talk for the fans to chatter about which is ok but I'm not sold on it being the right move.
I've heard from someone closer to the SD political avenue than I that the two schools are a little more attached now, but I can't say for certain it's true. But the events of 8 or 9 years ago may have led to this closer attachment.

As for the other part of speculation, I'm not sure that it will require a "move up" if the top level breaks off. It's completely possible the next level moves down, and that could be how all the other schools could be in a conference together in that the shakeup of that magnitude could cause the NCAA to let certain schools by meeting certain conditions form a conference. I'm at the point where I won't ever say anything is impossible.

UND/NDSU/SDSU roughly 11-13K students, 3-5 sports over minimum D-I requirements. USD - 7K students, had to add sports to go D-I. Struggling relative to the other three Dakotas. If a shift occurs, look for BSC to encourage UND out, much as Summit did with SUU. NDSU/SDSU created an even stronger bond by lock-stepping together into the D-I era. The rivalry is intense, but sensible. IDK if Jacks/Yotes or Bison/Formerly known as Sioux can get beyond the hatred rivalry of hate the other, and back whoever they are playing.

I still see NDSU/SDSU marching together, and the two U's doing their own thing.

[BisonBacker]

Originally Posted by BisonBacker
Yeah just like they were 8 years ago??? I don't think so.



Without having to go read a ton of crap in the NCAA bylaws how would a new conference like the one hambone speculates on (which I don't think is going to happen) ever take shape?

I don't see the athletic budgets being able to take the hit to fund a move up in all the schools mentioned. All the talk of the additional revenue from a move up like this hasn't convinced me that it will be more than the cost of funding such a move. I have faith that our Administration that if a move was necessary we would be hearing about it long before any move was necessary. Last time I heard Gene Taylor asked about it the gist of his comments were "we are where we need to be right now and that he was cognizant of all that was going on in the FCS landscape" Those weren't his exact words but that was what I got from his comments. I don't think getting folks all riled up like they are at UNI is necessarily a good thing given the financial situation they have. The same could be said for NDSU in that they don't have near the funding in place to make such a move right now. it's all talk for the fans to chatter about which is ok but I'm not sold on it being the right move.
I've heard from someone closer to the SD political avenue than I that the two schools are a little more attached now, but I can't say for certain it's true. But the events of 8 or 9 years ago may have led to this closer attachment.

As for the other part of speculation, I'm not sure that it will require a "move up" if the top level breaks off. It's completely possible the next level moves down, and that could be how all the other schools could be in a conference together in that the shakeup of that magnitude could cause the NCAA to let certain schools by meeting certain conditions form a conference. I'm at the point where I won't ever say anything is impossible.

UND/NDSU/SDSU roughly 11-13K students, 3-5 sports over minimum D-I requirements. USD - 7K students, had to add sports to go D-I. Struggling relative to the other three Dakotas. If a shift occurs, look for BSC to encourage UND out, much as Summit did with SUU. NDSU/SDSU created an even stronger bond by lock-stepping together into the D-I era. The rivalry is intense, but sensible. IDK if Jacks/Yotes or Bison/Formerly known as Sioux can get beyond the hatred rivalry of hate the other, and back whoever they are playing.

I still see NDSU/SDSU marching together, and the two U's doing their own thing.

I agree Rabid!!

[NDB]

I just can't shake the feeling that within the next 10 years you will see the 4 Dakota schools and the 2 Montanas in a conference together, in a level that is equal to the MAC, MWC, SunBelt, etc.


Then you ladies need to step up your game...

[mmiller_34]

As for the other part of speculation, I'm not sure that it will require a "move up" if the top level breaks off. It's completely possible the next level moves down..

I've thought about this before.. the SEC, ACC, B10, B12, P12, and maybe the Big East separate and do their own Super-Division thing while leaving the Sun Belt, CUSA, MWC, and MAC.. In that scenario I don't see why the NCAA wouldn't combine those four conferences with the rest of FCS into a weird new D-1 subdivision.

[sgt smash]

I've thought about this before.. the SEC, ACC, B10, B12, P12, and maybe the Big East separate and do their own Super-Division thing while leaving the Sun Belt, CUSA, MWC, and MAC.. In that scenario I don't see why the NCAA wouldn't combine those four conferences with the rest of FCS into a weird new D-1 subdivision.

There are some teams in those conferences that wouldnt belong there though as well (Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas). Why do they get to stay and the Air Force (this year anyway) get to play for the lesser subdivision?

[PantherRob82]

There are some teams in those conferences that wouldnt belong there though as well (Minnesota, Iowa, Kansas). Why do they get to stay and the Air Force (this year anyway) get to play for the lesser subdivision?

I hate the Hawkeyes, but how do you put them in that category?

[sgt smash]

Last few years. Thats my only justification.

[sgt smash]

Two years ago I think they were ranked but didnt they lose to Minnesota at the end of the year?

[MplsBison]

Two years ago I think they were ranked but didnt they lose to Minnesota at the end of the year?

Yep. Horton's last game as interim head coach.

I kinda thought he had earned the right to take the program over with that performance, but I suppose Maturi wanted to hurry up and hire a new coach so that Brewster wouldn't be his eternal legacy as Minnesota's AD.

[KUlawJack]

Two years ago I think they were ranked but didnt they lose to Minnesota at the end of the year?

Iowa went 8-5 and 7-6 the last two years. Three years ago they won the Orange Bowl. They've been to bowl games in 10 out of the last 11 seasons.

[Thundar]

Iowa went 8-5 and 7-6 the last two years. Three years ago they won the Orange Bowl. They've been to bowl games in 10 out of the last 11 seasons.

Man you really need to update your sig line

[Professor Chaos]

I miss Brewster *sniff*

"Are ya hungry or are ya starvin?"
"If ur gonna go bear huntin, you better be prepared to go get the bear."
"Get that chili hot boys.... get that dad gum chili hot!"
"If you wanna get some you better bring some!"
"It's real, it's raw, at times it's real raw."

[KUlawJack]

Man you really need to update your sig line

I sure do. First time I've signed into this site in two or three years was yesterday. Yikes.