PL commish on schollies: "60 is max for all forms of aid"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/08/media-day-2012-significant-year-for.html


In addition to the flexibility for each school, there's an element to football scholarships that is not present in other leagues.

"There will be some reporting to the league to go along with scholarships, because the upper limit is 60," she said. "And it's 60 of all forms of aid - need-based, scholarship, or academic awards."

It's a significant difference from many other FCS conferences.

Discuss.

[DFW HOYA]

It's an out to schools (Lafayette, Bucknell) that may not go full scholarship but still maintain 60 equivalencies.

Five of the seven schools offer some level of academic (merit) aid: Bucknell, Fordham, HolyCross, Lehigh, Lafayette. Georgetown and Colgate do not.

[Pard4Life]

It's an out to schools (Lafayette, Bucknell) that may not go full scholarship but still maintain 60 equivalencies.

Five of the seven schools offer some level of academic (merit) aid: Bucknell, Fordham, HolyCross, Lehigh, Lafayette. Georgetown and Colgate do not.

Wouldn't it make sense for every school to let's say, spread two scholarships over four players while awarding 13 scholarships to 13 players? If Lafayette is offering up to 60 equivalencies, it doesn't make sense to not offer full scholarships when your competitors are...

[RichH2]

Ok, I've benn venting all over, might as well here also. A gree this added limitation aimed at Hoyas and perhaps Pards and Bison. Will much more severely limit rosters. We can only have 60 recruited athletes receiving aid.No where near 85 counters allowed by NCAA. Perhaps I should repost the myth of expansion. It doesn't pay to split schollies other than if the school wants to save money. Seems , partial , full,academic or need aid all counts to PL limit of 60. As Femovich stated all forms of aid does that mean a partial will count as 1 against the 60 or will they allow as NCAA does in FCS aid to ne spread out over 85? Is it aid totalling 60 full rides or 60 players receiving any aid at all? It would seem to be the later.Only unrecruited walk ons would appear not to count if they get need or academic aid. Will we see lots more UNRECRUITED players?xeyebrowx

[Pard4Life]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2012/08/media-day-2012-significant-year-for.html



Discuss.

I knew it!! There's always some catch with this hoighty-toighty Patriot League leadership crowd...

What about regular financial aid? What if Joe Jones is not offered a football scholarship at Lafayette, but decides to enroll anyway, makes the football team, but is receiving $10,000 per year in financial aid? That counts in the 60 limit?

Good to see the academic reporting requirements... it will keep the Lehigh people in line.

[Pard4Life]

As Femovich stated all forms of aid does that mean a partial will count as 1 against the 60 or will they allow as NCAA does in FCS aid to ne spread out over 85? Is it aid totalling 60 full rides or 60plaurlers receiving any aid at all? It would seem to be the later.

... we just asked the same thing...

[RichH2]

As you posted after me, I am glad you can read.

[RichH2]

I wonder besides saving money is 60 max a sop to the Ivies to keep scheduling us?

[Pard4Life]

The NCAA scholarship max is 63, but I don't think that involves all form of aid.

[HC Crusader94]

Not so. HC is entirely need-based in its' financial aid and does not currently offer academic merit aid. HC is also one of only about 30 or so schools nationally that are need-blind and meet full demonstrated need.

[HC Crusader94]

Any RECRUITED athlete receiving aid of any kind counts vs. the 60 cap. So, only way around it would be for a kid to apply, get in on his own and join team as a walk-on. Not likely to happen very often. So, teams will have to either go with 60 full scholarships and 20-30 full pays or spread the 60 amont the 85 or so kids on the roster.

[Pard4Life]

Not so. HC is entirely need-based in its' financial aid and does not currently offer academic merit aid. HC is also one of only about 30 or so schools nationally that are need-blind and meet full demonstrated need.

Welcome to the board. We have a solid group of PL posters here.

[DFW HOYA]

Not so. HC is entirely need-based in its' financial aid and does not currently offer academic merit aid. HC is also one of only about 30 or so schools nationally that are need-blind and meet full demonstrated need.

I thought so too but saw this link:

http://academics.holycross.edu/classics/scholarships


Any RECRUITED athlete receiving aid of any kind counts vs. the 60 cap. So, only way around it would be for a kid to apply, get in on his own and join team as a walk-on. Not likely to happen very often. So, teams will have to either go with 60 full scholarships and 20-30 full pays or spread the 60 amont the 85 or so kids on the roster.

I don't read the quote as a 60 counter limit, only that PL schools can't offer 15 scholarships a year and offer equivalency aid for the rest of the class. Either way, it's not like Georgetown is bumping up against 60 anytime soon.

[carney2]

I wonder besides saving money is 60 max a sop to the Ivies to keep scheduling us?

It's a sop to the academics who, at this moment, are purchasing their pitchforks and lighting their torches.

[HC Crusader94]

Yes, a few long-standing Classics scholarships plus a music scholarship (probably total of 3/4 per class) are only merit-based scholarships that exist.

[RichH2]

More Qs. Effectively, where does this PL added limit put us re CAA, NEC?

[DFW HOYA]

More Qs. Effectively, where does this PL added limit put us re CAA, NEC?

CAA: 63 scholarships
PL: No more than 60
NEC: 40

[RichH2]

P4L sorry for being snarky. Bad day compounded with this new wrinkle. Just wish that PL could do anything in a straight forward manner wihout subsequent deletions. Our giant leap forward may indeed be a mere change in terminology so hemmed in by qualifications that it becomes almost counterproductive. LU now has about 60 equivalencies under NCAAdefinition. How does that translate for next year? Ah,.

The sweet agony of the PL version of chinese watsr torturs. Best I can see is we are staying around same# of equivalencies but getting some better playsrs. Anticipate lots of unrecruited walk ons . What constitutes an unrecruited walk on?

[RichH2]

CAA: 63 scholarships
PL: No more than 60
NEC: 40

But they can spread them out over 85 recruits. Can we?

[HC Crusader94]

Yes. Schools are free to spread their scholarships over as many kids as they want.

[UNH Fanboi]

Does this really make that much of a difference? I would imagine that you'd get a much better recruiting class offering 60 full schollies than 40 full and 40 half.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'll be interested to see what Fordham thinks about this.

I can't see Lehigh, Colgate and Fordhm signing off on this unless they're confident it will improve the overall product.

[DFW HOYA]

Anticipate lots of unrecruited walk ons . What constitutes an unrecruited walk on?

1. Not recruited for a scholarship offer.
2. Admitted without regard to athletic ability
3. Not receiving any athletics-related aid.

More likely, there will be more recruited walk-ons.

[MplsBison]

Yes. Schools are free to spread their scholarships over as many kids as they want.

Not according to the NCAA. The counter limit is 85 players on the roster receiving a scholarship equivalency.

And my understanding is that, to the NCAA, only money being given to players because they're on the football team counts.


So if the school gives $500 to every student who enrolled and had a 32 or higher ACT, then any football players getting that money would NOT count against the scholarship equivalency total that the NCAA tracks and enforces.

[HC Crusader94]

Should have said up to the 85 limit. I know that at HC, even if a kid is getting non athletic-related financial aid (i.e. need-based) money, it counts against the 60 scholarship equivalent. So, as I said, it's a roster of kids on scholarship (full or partial) plus full pays to fill it out.

[MplsBison]

Should have said up to the 85 limit. I know that at HC, even if a kid is getting non athletic-related financial aid (i.e. need-based) money, it counts against the 60 scholarship equivalent. So, as I said, it's a roster of kids on scholarship (full or partial) plus full pays to fill it out.

You're saying this is a Holy Cross policy or this is the new PL policy?

In either case, it's wrong. Any money that any player gets from the school for any reason other than football should be between him and the school and neither the NCAA, the Patriot League nor the athletic department should ever get know about it.

[Pard4Life]

You're saying this is a Holy Cross policy or this is the new PL policy?

In either case, it's wrong. Any money that any player gets from the school for any reason other than football should be between him and the school and neither the NCAA, the Patriot League nor the athletic department should ever get know about it.


In theory I agree, but you know schools are going to try and find a way to give athletes preferential aid treatment. But, there is also an issue if the student would have been admitted to school to begin with if he did not play football, regardless of whether or not he needs the aid.

Example:

Patriot U. Average student: 1350 SAT, 3.7 GPA

Joe: 1350 SAT, 3.7 GPA. Family makes $70,000. Qualifies for $30k in aid per year. Recruited to play football. Aid counts against scholarship equivalencies. Likely admitted regardless of football.
James: 1200 SAT, 3.0 GPA. Family makes $70,000. Qualifies for $30k in aid per year. Recruited to play football. Aid counts against scholarship equivalencies. But would have been admitted if not for football?
Jack: 1500 SAT, 3.95 GPA. Family makes $200,000. Qualifies for $0 in aid. Lafayette awards him an academic scholarship that equals $25,000 per year because admissions determines he would be a star student of the class. Recruited to play football. Aid counts against scholarship equivalencies. That is WRONG!

[DFW HOYA]

Suggestion for LFN or College-Sporting-News: A sit-down Q&A with the Patriot commisioner.

[RichH2]

Good idea DFW.
Another scenario.
Tom A. a 2012 recruit gets a need schollie for about half tuition. For NCAA he counts as a partial equivalency and against 85 .
Same recruit 2013, same NCAA result. Now however he counts as afull schollie against Pl 60 cap??

[MplsBison]

Good idea DFW.
Another scenario.
Tom A. a 2012 recruit gets a need schollie for about half tuition. For NCAA he counts as a partial equivalency and against 85 .
Same recruit 2013, same NCAA result. Now however he counts as afull schollie against Pl 60 cap??

I only read it as schools being able to award a maximum of 60 scholarship equivalencies, of total money to their football team - and that includes money that the players get from the school for non-football reasons.

So say they determine that one scholarship equivalency to attend Lehigh is $60k a year (pulling that out of my butt) and the players on the team are receiving a total of $3.3million. That's 55 scholarship equivalencies worth of money. That's under the 60 limit.


Interestingly, this does cause two different tracking requirements if taken to the letter of the law. Because if the team roster is say 100 players and players 86-100 are still receiving some money from the school, but not receiving anything from the athletic department...it means the AD could be in compliance with the NCAA but out of compliance with the Patriot League!

[Pard4Life]

Good idea DFW.
Another scenario.
Tom A. a 2012 recruit gets a need schollie for about half tuition. For NCAA he counts as a partial equivalency and against 85 .
Same recruit 2013, same NCAA result. Now however he counts as afull schollie against Pl 60 cap??

No, I don't think that's what's being proposed. It would count as half a scholarship/equivalency. It's done that way in soccer and lacrosse, among others.

I am annoyed that if a student is qualified to attend to the school and needs the aid, it would count in the scholarship/equivalency/merit aid debate and subtract from the 60. I am thinking of Brad Maurer. Marquis Scholar, meaning he was a top Lafayette student and would have gotten the award even if he didn't play football. But because he plays football, his academic scholarship counts towards the 60 as a football aid.

[Pard4Life]

Suggestion for LFN or College-Sporting-News: A sit-down Q&A with the Patriot commisioner.

Commissioner SheLie Femovich... didn't he just do one on his blog, more or less?

[TheValleyRaider]

I'll be interested to see what Fordham thinks about this.

I can't see Lehigh, Colgate and Fordhm signing off on this unless they're confident it will improve the overall product.

If Femovich has made this comment, then presumably Colgate and Lehigh already have signed off on it. How much it will help (if it does at all) remains to be seen...

[RichH2]

It would be nice to have her explain spevicically what she meant and how the 60 max will be implemented. For some reason I am sanguine on whether Fball will ne treated the same as soccer. I hope so

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Suggestion for LFN or College-Sporting-News: A sit-down Q&A with the Patriot commisioner.

Don't hold your breath on CSN doing that. College Sports Journal, however... ;)

[DFW HOYA]

Correction duly noted!