Georgia State Falls for the Big Lie that Refuses to Die

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/79-college-sports-journal/chuck-burton/204-panthers-fall-for-the-big-lie-that-refuses-to-die


Looking back, it probably shouldn't have been such a surprise that Georgia State's stay in FCS would be short, even though they were full members of the CAA in all sports.

The writing had to be on the wall in February, when a gushing feasibility report by Georgia State business school grad Russell White all but told Georgia State to jettison the Colonial Athletic Association, home of the toughest football conference in all of FCS, and join the conference that had been their home before, the Sun Belt.

In the whirlwind courtship that was Georgia State's wooing by the Sun Belt, they were promised it all - more money, more "exposure", prestigious bowls.

In other words, they were seduced by the Big Lie that refuses to die.

The "joys" of Sun Belt membership - spelled out in gory detail.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The bowl games will almost certainly involve the GoDaddy.Com Bowl instead of the Fiesta Bowl, the ESPN games are almost always on Tuesday night, not Saturday nights, and you end up opening up a spending arms race that doesn't really result in the type money that you're hoping to generate for your program.

This is very true (the whole article) but it's also true that FCS schools get even less exposure and smaller TV audiences than non-BCS FBS. It's like a Chihuahua making fun of a German Shepard because he's not as big as a Mastiff.

[realgsu]

First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.

Second, i think the Commish is trying to change the way the Sunbelt does business. By adding larger state schools located in large markets the SBC can negotiate better TV deals meaning more revenue for members. In addition, schools like GSU who play in large stadiums can negotiate home at home games with BCS schools (see UTSA sched) which traditional SBC schools who played at smaller venues couldn't accommodate. Who here doubts that Curry won't get Kentucky to come to Atl to play in the dome? Or NC State or Illinois or Navy? Thats an easier road trip than say, L-lafayette. As far as basketball how great will the CAA be when GMU VCU bolt?

[JSUBison]

First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.

Second, i think the Commish is trying to change the way the Sunbelt does business. By adding larger state schools located in large markets the SBC can negotiate better TV deals meaning more revenue for members. In addition, schools like GSU who play in large stadiums can negotiate home at home games with BCS schools (see UTSA sched) which traditional SBC schools who played at smaller venues couldn't accommodate. Who here doubts that Curry won't get Kentucky to come to Atl to play in the dome? Or NC State or Illinois or Navy? Thats an easier road trip than say, L-lafayette. As far as basketball how great will the CAA be when GMU VCU bolt?

Curry has a year left, 2 tops.

[eaglewraith]

Curry has a year left, 2 tops.

Seeing as how he isn't renewing his contract, it's 1 year.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.

Second, i think the Commish is trying to change the way the Sunbelt does business. By adding larger state schools located in large markets the SBC can negotiate better TV deals meaning more revenue for members. In addition, schools like GSU who play in large stadiums can negotiate home at home games with BCS schools (see UTSA sched) which traditional SBC schools who played at smaller venues couldn't accommodate. Who here doubts that Curry won't get Kentucky to come to Atl to play in the dome? Or NC State or Illinois or Navy? Thats an easier road trip than say, L-lafayette. As far as basketball how great will the CAA be when GMU VCU bolt?

I don't think it is fully understood that those BCS teams don't do H&H's with the outsiders in FBS. I think it is usually a 2 or 3 away to 1 home game if it even happens then. That may not necessarily be a bad deal for Ga State though cuz they might not be raking it in with low attendance anyway so why not be road warriors to gain a big game at home.

[unknown3]

I don't think it is fully understood that those BCS teams don't do H&H's with the outsiders in FBS. I think it is usually a 2 or 3 away to 1 home game if it even happens then. That may not necessarily be a bad deal for Ga State though cuz they might not be raking it in with low attendance anyway so why not be road warriors to gain a big game at home.

Actually quite a few Sunbelt teams have 2 for 1 deals with BCS teams. It's not uncommon at all.

[unknown3]

This is very true (the whole article) but it's also true that FCS schools get even less exposure and smaller TV audiences than non-BCS FBS. It's like a Chihuahua making fun of a German Shepard because he's not as big as a Mastiff.

Most honest post that'll be listed in this thread.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.

Second, i think the Commish is trying to change the way the Sunbelt does business. By adding larger state schools located in large markets the SBC can negotiate better TV deals meaning more revenue for members. In addition, schools like GSU who play in large, empty stadiums can negotiate home at home games with BCS schools (see UTSA sched) which traditional SBC schools who played at smaller venues couldn't accommodate. Who here doubts that Curry won't get Kentucky to come to Atl to play in the dome? ME Or NC State or Illinois or Navy? Thats an easier road trip than say, L-lafayette. As far as basketball how great will the CAA be when GMU VCU bolt?

FIFY. No doubt the Sunbelt is better than FCS for Ga State, but Ga State still has a long way to go to prove they can build a donating fan base with decent attendance and a quality product on the field. Again, UAB is THE school Ga State needs to compare itself to in terms of where it stacks up in it's home state with fans and supporters. Being in Atlanta is a plus for geography and market size (State has little to no market-share compared to UGA and Tech), but is probably a minus in terms of Atlanta being the worst sports city in the US because half the population is from somewhere else, the campus is in the ghetto, there will be no "local or regional pride" in the hometown school like East Carolina, Southern Miss, Middle Tennessee, Marshall or even FCS schools like App St, Ga Southern, James Madison, and Old Dominion. Charlotte will have an easier time than Ga State making headway in NC with Football because there's no real fever for UNC, Duke, or NC State like there is for Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Tennessee, and Florida.

State is trying to be an impressive Chimp while standing right next to the 800 lb Gorilla and the 400 lb Gorilla.

Good Luck though. I'm really hoping Curry can get his Ga State record above .500 by the time the transition is complete, but I predict 2-6 in the CAA and 1-2 OOC to bring the 3-year tally to 12-21.

[FormerPokeCenter]

First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.

Second, i think the Commish is trying to change the way the Sunbelt does business. By adding larger state schools located in large markets the SBC can negotiate better TV deals meaning more revenue for members. In addition, schools like GSU who play in large stadiums can negotiate home at home games with BCS schools (see UTSA sched) which traditional SBC schools who played at smaller venues couldn't accommodate. Who here doubts that Curry won't get Kentucky to come to Atl to play in the dome? Or NC State or Illinois or Navy? Thats an easier road trip than say, L-lafayette. As far as basketball how great will the CAA be when GMU VCU bolt?

Sunbelt schools don't get Million Dollar guarantees....

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Actually quite a few Sunbelt teams have 2 for 1 deals with BCS teams. It's not uncommon at all.

Since that is what I said I don't know why you'd think I'd need convincing that it happens? It can happen every once in a while with certain teams but not real often. Wyoming in a much more powerful position a few years back had to go to Texas several times to get a game back. You're giving up a lot of cash for that privilege.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Most honest post that'll be listed in this thread.

EC is a sharp guy but he missed the mark a little there. It's more like a German Shepard pointing out to a larger German Shepard that it is not a Mastiff even though it sees itself playing in the same yard.

[LakesBison]

[QUOTE=realgsu;1784732]First things first. If I'm going to lose money anyway ,even in FCS, I might as well do it in the Sunbelt where I can get million dollar guarantees and play on ESPN instead of public television.


Absolutley True. HEck the MAC or WAC offers the same thing

[Tuscon]

Ms. Levick, while mentioning all those hoary chestnuts about "top-quality competion" and "increased exposure", also made the blithe assumption that that the university analysis projected that expected increases in guarantee-game revenues for football, corporate sponsorships and ticket sales will cover the cost of the additional scholarships in 2013.

He then goes on to say she's not thinking about increased costs of scholarships......


At Western Kentucky, a row recently broke out when it was revealed that head coach Willie Taggart, after a 7-5 season (and despite a loss to FCS Indiana State in the same year), just about doubled his annual pay to $475,000 a year

We already pay our HC $350k which is better than 6 other Sun Belt programs.


Furthermore, scholarships and salaries don't even begin to catalog the other various expenses - paybacks to the league for bowl payouts, added charter flights to money games against BCS foes, increased academic compliance requirements, facilities improvements - that seem to come with FBS invites.


(While Georgia State wouldn't have to pay for facility improvements, they will need to rent out the Georgia Dome, which will cost the institution money from their athletics budget.)

Added charter flights to MONEY BCS games. Games that we will play anyway, but will pay us more. How do they think we were getting around in the CAA? Bus? Costs will be less for travel. I can't speak on Academic compliance requirements because I didn't know they were different and I'm not even really sure how that increases costs. "they will need to rent out the Georgia Dome" - We already do that! It's not an increased cost!

Most of the items cited in the article while articulated in a clear, concise way don't make any sense. Our budget is already 44% higher than current Sun Belt schools as per our feasibility study. Costs are not going sharply upward. We make a lot more sense in the Sun Belt than we do in the CAA. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[Tuscon]

Further:

Troy @ Clemson: $800,000
Wofford @ Clemson: $250,000

ULM @ FSU: $1.3M

Arkansas State @ Illinois: $850,000
South Dakota St. @ Illinois $400,000

List goes on.

[Skjellyfetti]

If FCS is so much better financially... why don't bottom feeder FBS schools ever move down to FCS? Why is there always a flood of schools moving UP but never any schools moving DOWN? xchinscratchx

[FormerPokeCenter]

If FCS is so much better financially... why don't bottom feeder FBS schools ever move down to FCS? Why is there always a flood of schools moving UP but never any schools moving DOWN? xchinscratchx

Actually, Villanova moved down...after reconstituting their football team in the 80's, so that might not count....and in 82, the entire Southland Conference (McNeese, USL, ULM, Ark State, North Texas, Texas Arlington, La Tech) moved down. McNeese elected to stay in I-AA, despite being the only school in the conference with the attendance to stay I-A. The others moved back up and only La Tech's had any real, though mixed, success....

[Skjellyfetti]

I guess I should have qualified it with "in the last 30 years" or something. The college football landscape ain't what it was in the early 80's.

[realgsu]

Yeah back then even FAMU won titles

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If FCS is so much better financially... why don't bottom feeder FBS schools ever move down to FCS? Why is there always a flood of schools moving UP but never any schools moving DOWN? xchinscratchx

Because once they believe the lie that FBS football is soooo much better, their egos do not allow them to restore football where it makes most sense. They're trapped in this overspending game.

[Libertine]

This article is deliberately disingenuous. It doesn't cover a topic but rather cherry-picks stats and factoids to boost a predetermined position.

First of all, Karl Benson's career path has nothing whatsoever to do with Georgia State's decision to move to the Sun Belt.
Second, one can't make the "leaving money on the table" argument and that money be only in the neighborhood of $300,000. GSU can make that up and more in one payday game in football.
Third, the argument about escalating salaries and staff costs is real but it is already an issue in FCS. It is not uncommon at all for the head football coach at many D1 institutions -- FCS or FBS -- to be its highest-paid employee.
Fourth, the scholarship argument is more than a bit hypocritical. FCS looks down its collective nose at D2 or D3 schools who won't pony up scholarship dollars to "better" their programs but regard FCS schools who make the move to FBS as blinded by fool's gold. If that process was good for Presbyterian and North Dakota to move to FCS, why isn't it at least as good if not better for Georgia State to move to the next level?
Fifth, the title of the article is blatant misinformation. In order for Georgia State to believe a "big lie", it means that someone is deliberately and maliciously lying to them. The article presupposes that person to be the eeevil Karl Benson who once committed the unspeakable crime of presiding over a weak conference and who dipped into his oily charlatan's bag-of-tricks and convinced the feeble minds at GaSt that joining his particular cult was good for them. On the other hand, I submit that the people who are directly accountable for Georgia State's athletics are far more informed and well-versed in athletics in general than most outside observers, particularly the author of this article. The "big lie" in this article is actually the idea that being a member of the Sun Belt is worse than being a member of any FCS conference. Granted, the Sun Belt isn't anywhere close to being a marquee FBS league at this point in time -- and may never be -- but divisional realignment is about a long-term view. By going to the Sun Belt, Georgia State is putting themselves in a position to make strides that -- let's face it -- they weren't going to make in the CAA either because of their lack of competitiveness or just by being affiliated with FCS. The fact is that most schools at the upper end of FCS in terms of competition and/or resources are bumping up against something of a ceiling and if they are willing to pay the price tag to break through, why shouldn't they?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The silence on the student fees and institutional support, incidentally, is deafening.

[Saint3333]

The silence on the student fees and institutional support, incidentally, is deafening.

In 2010 Georgia State's percentage of their budget generated by athletics (tickets, donations, etc.) was 12% at $2.2M. USA today source utilized by ASU's feasibility study. they were by far the lowest in the CAA.

[Tuscon]

The silence on the student fees and institutional support, incidentally, is deafening.

It's not an actual negative point. Yup, we use student fees to help balance the books.

[Saint3333]

It's not an actual negative point. Yup, we use student fees to help balance the books.

"Help" - try 88%. Doesn't sound like a positive. You're at your maximum for getting blood out of that turnip.

[Tuscon]

"Help" - try 88%. Doesn't sound like a positive. You're at your maximum for getting blood out of that turnip.

Again, and?

[FormerPokeCenter]

"Help" - try 88%. Doesn't sound like a positive. You're at your maximum for getting blood out of that turnip.

Yes, but you're ignoring their MARKET, for crying out loud! When will you learn it's about Market! Just look at Georgia Tech's dominance of Atlanta and the juggernaut FBS teams in Chicago, New York and Boston for chrissakes!

[Saint3333]

Again, and?

You will need more money, you aren't very successful in any sport will your current budget. You can't get any more money out of your students and you'll need to draw from your alumni base (that isn't your strong suit). You're missing the point.

[Tuscon]

You will need more money, you aren't very successful in any sport will your current budget. You can't get any more money out of your students and you'll need to draw from your alumni base (that isn't your strong suit). You're missing the point.

Our previous administration cared not for Athletics. The new president is all in. I think you'll find we will start doing more with the current budget now that we have institutional support for our athletics.

[aceinthehole]

This article is deliberately disingenuous.

Does that really suprise you, considering the source?

[Sir William]

I've been reading all these posts @ Ga State's move to the Sun Belt and FBS on this thread and others, and I gotta be honest with you...I don't see what the uproar is all about. GaSt Has decided to do what they feel is in their best interest. As far as the FCS nation is concerned (and the CAA for that matter), they were never really part of the family to begin with. Thank heavens that the SoCon had the wisdom not to entertain them as a prospective member!

GaSt will become to college football in the state of Georgia what UAB has become to college football in the state of Alabama: second-class citizens. In 'Bama, Auburn and UA are IT as far as FBS football is concerned. I know that UAB fields a team, and that they sometimes may have a winning season against CUSA competition, but most in the state who care about FBS football have - and will always have - a heart for the Tigers or the Tide. On any given Saturday in which the Blazers are playing a home game in Birmingham, if you offer a UAB student or alum a ticket to a game in Tuscaloosa or Auburn, I would bet you nine dollars to a nickel that 90% would give up their seat at Legion Field. UAB will always be the redheaded stepchild to the other two.

The same will happen to GaSt. They will never come close to equalling the 'Dogs or Jackets in any respect on the FBS landscape in the Peach State. Guarantee you this...once the Panthers are full-fledged SunBelters, on any given Saturday afternoon in the fall, offer them a UGA or Tech ticket, and watch how fast the vast majority will shelf their Dome ticket. It's just the way it is and the way it will always be.

Someone may say "what about South Florida?"...ie, why not compare GaSt to USF as far as potential goes. Fine. USF finally has had some success at the FBS level on the national scene in a state where three programs are king. Just keep in mind that it has taken 20 yrs to do so; and still, if you ask the average to above-average football fan in Florida to name their favorite team, guess who runs a very distant 4th at best (and maybe 5th, as many UCF fans would argue). My point remains the same.

I wish GaSt all the best in the Sun Belt. I hope they thrive there, and I believe they will. Nonetheless, they will never have the tradition that their instate FCS brother, Georgia Southern, has established in college football history (as much as it makes me wince to say that as a Furman alum :)). Let the Panthers go in peace. Their irrelevance to FCS football remains the same. And their future relevance to college football at both the national, regional and state level remains to be seen.

[realgsu]

Yes, but you're ignoring their MARKET, for crying out loud! When will you learn it's about Market! Just look at Georgia Tech's dominance of Atlanta and the juggernaut FBS teams in Chicago, New York and Boston for chrissakes!

In which country is the state of Mcneese in again?

[Sir William]

And the same goes for UNC-Charlotte. xsmiley_wix

[realgsu]

I've been reading all these posts @ Ga State's move to the Sun Belt and FBS on this thread and others, and I gotta be honest with you...I don't see what the uproar is all about. GaSt Has decided to do what they feel is in their best interest. As far as the FCS nation is concerned (and the CAA for that matter), they were never really part of the family to begin with. Thank heavens that the SoCon had the wisdom not to entertain them as a prospective member!

GaSt will become to college football in the state of Georgia what UAB has become to college football in the state of Alabama: second-class citizens. In 'Bama, Auburn and UA are IT as far as FBS football is concerned. I know that UAB fields a team, and that they sometimes may have a winning season against CUSA competition, but most in the state who care about FBS football have - and will always have - a heart for the Tigers or the Tide. On any given Saturday in which the Blazers are playing a home game in Birmingham, if you offer a UAB student or alum a ticket to a game in Tuscaloosa or Auburn, I would bet you nine dollars to a nickel that 90% would give up their seat at Legion Field. UAB will always be the redheaded stepchild to the other two.

The same will happen to GaSt. They will never come close to equalling the 'Dogs or Jackets in any respect on the FBS landscape in the Peach State. Guarantee you this...once the Panthers are full-fledged SunBelters, on any given Saturday afternoon in the fall, offer them a UGA or Tech ticket, and watch how fast the vast majority will shelf their Dome ticket. It's just the way it is and the way it will always be.

Someone may say "what about South Florida?"...ie, why not compare GaSt to USF as far as potential goes. Fine. USF finally has had some success at the FBS level on the national scene in a state where three programs are king. Just keep in mind that it has taken 20 yrs to do so; and still, if you ask the average to above-average football fan in Florida to name their favorite team, guess who runs a very distant 4th at best (and maybe 5th, as many UCF fans would argue). My point remains the same.

I wish GaSt all the best in the Sun Belt. I hope they thrive there, and I believe they will. Nonetheless, they will never have the tradition that their instate FCS brother, Georgia Southern, has established in college football history (as much as it makes me wince to say that as a Furman alum :)). Let the Panthers go in peace. Their irrelevance to FCS football remains the same. And their future relevance to college football at both the national, regional and state level remains to be seen.

We are kind of different than UAB in that although UGA is entrenched in the state, its grip on Atlanta itself is tenuous. If you consider the demographics of Atlanta 50% of the city is African American, most of which aren't die hard UGA fans, but are college football fans. Most of UGA support is in the rural areas and in the suburbs. GSU is about 30% black and make up a disproportionate amount of our traditional students. If you ever go to our homecoming you will see the interesting contrast of mostly white attendees but mostly black homecoming court.

I say all of that to say this, since GSU represents Atlanta more accurately than UGA and especially Tech does, there is an opportunity to become "Atlanta's Team" in a way that UAB never could with birmingham or USF with Miami.

[Sir William]

I say all of that to say this, since GSU represents Atlanta more accurately than UGA and especially Tech does, there is an opportunity to become "Atlanta's Team" in a way that UAB never could with birmingham or USF with Miami.

It will never happen.

[realgsu]

It will never happen.

We will see wont we. Don't worry, in ten years we will be giving you guarantee games.

[Sir William]

Don't worry, in ten years we will be giving you guarantee games.

LOL - Why would we entertain a lowly Sun Belt guarantee game, when we always have a guarantee SEC or ACC game every year! No need to play the FBS also-rans.

LMAO!

[realgsu]

LOL - Why would we entertain a lowly Sun Belt guarantee game, when we always have a guarantee SEC or ACC game every year! No need to play the FBS also-rans.

LMAO!
You'll play whoever cuts the check

[cbarrier90]

You'll play whoever cuts the check

And it won't be Georgia State...

[Cocky]

We are kind of different than UAB in that although UGA is entrenched in the state, its grip on Atlanta itself is tenuous. If you consider the demographics of Atlanta 50% of the city is African American, most of which aren't die hard UGA fans, but are college football fans. Most of UGA support is in the rural areas and in the suburbs. GSU is about 30% black and make up a disproportionate amount of our traditional students. If you ever go to our homecoming you will see the interesting contrast of mostly white attendees but mostly black homecoming court.

I say all of that to say this, since GSU represents Atlanta more accurately than UGA and especially Tech does, there is an opportunity to become "Atlanta's Team" in a way that UAB never could with birmingham or USF with Miami.

I thought USF was in Tampa?

[GSU EAGLES]

We are kind of different than UAB in that although UGA is entrenched in the state, its grip on Atlanta itself is tenuous. If you consider the demographics of Atlanta 50% of the city is African American, most of which aren't die hard UGA fans, but are college football fans. Most of UGA support is in the rural areas and in the suburbs. GSU is about 30% black and make up a disproportionate amount of our traditional students. If you ever go to our homecoming you will see the interesting contrast of mostly white attendees but mostly black homecoming court.

I say all of that to say this, since GSU represents Atlanta more accurately than UGA and especially Tech does, there is an opportunity to become "Atlanta's Team" in a way that UAB never could with birmingham or USF with Miami.

Birmingham does not have an NFL team. Ga State will have to outcompete the NFL, the ACC (Ga Tech) and the Braves (Sept) to gain new fans. I just don't see the people in the city that are football fans with disposable income droping their Falcons tickets for Ga State tickets now that they are in the Sun Belt. Sure with all of Ga State's students funding the program they will not be in any kind of financial trouble. In year two the attendance started falling off big time by the end of the year. Now that the newness has worn off and the team continues to lose, how will attendance be next year? One big problem for Ga State is by losing to Lambuth and St Francis, they are establishing a culture and tradition of losing which is VERY difficult to turn around. They need to start winning, but it will be very difficult for them in the CAA next year.

UTSA has the community behind them because there is no competition.

[Saint3333]

I say all of that to say this, since GSU represents Atlanta more accurately than UGA and especially Tech does, there is an opportunity to become "Atlanta's Team" in a way that UAB never could with birmingham or USF with Miami.

At no point in your ramblings did you put together a coherent thought, that is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board (and that is a mighty tall order) and may God have mercy on your soul.

UNCC fans apologies to you for anything I've said in the past, you are not even close to the most out of touch fanbase, even you guys aren't this delusion. Wow, just wow.

[JMUNJ08]

I've been reading all these posts @ Ga State's move to the Sun Belt and FBS on this thread and others, and I gotta be honest with you...I don't see what the uproar is all about. GaSt Has decided to do what they feel is in their best interest. As far as the FCS nation is concerned (and the CAA for that matter), they were never really part of the family to begin with. Thank heavens that the SoCon had the wisdom not to entertain them as a prospective member!

GaSt will become to college football in the state of Georgia what UAB has become to college football in the state of Alabama: second-class citizens. In 'Bama, Auburn and UA are IT as far as FBS football is concerned. I know that UAB fields a team, and that they sometimes may have a winning season against CUSA competition, but most in the state who care about FBS football have - and will always have - a heart for the Tigers or the Tide. On any given Saturday in which the Blazers are playing a home game in Birmingham, if you offer a UAB student or alum a ticket to a game in Tuscaloosa or Auburn, I would bet you nine dollars to a nickel that 90% would give up their seat at Legion Field. UAB will always be the redheaded stepchild to the other two.

The same will happen to GaSt. They will never come close to equalling the 'Dogs or Jackets in any respect on the FBS landscape in the Peach State. Guarantee you this...once the Panthers are full-fledged SunBelters, on any given Saturday afternoon in the fall, offer them a UGA or Tech ticket, and watch how fast the vast majority will shelf their Dome ticket. It's just the way it is and the way it will always be.

Someone may say "what about South Florida?"...ie, why not compare GaSt to USF as far as potential goes. Fine. USF finally has had some success at the FBS level on the national scene in a state where three programs are king. Just keep in mind that it has taken 20 yrs to do so; and still, if you ask the average to above-average football fan in Florida to name their favorite team, guess who runs a very distant 4th at best (and maybe 5th, as many UCF fans would argue). My point remains the same.

I wish GaSt all the best in the Sun Belt. I hope they thrive there, and I believe they will. Nonetheless, they will never have the tradition that their instate FCS brother, Georgia Southern, has established in college football history (as much as it makes me wince to say that as a Furman alum :)). Let the Panthers go in peace. Their irrelevance to FCS football remains the same. And their future relevance to college football at both the national, regional and state level remains to be seen.

Sounds about right to me.

JMU currently is in a similar spot. Great attendance (20K plus) but only an hour from UVA and 2 hours from VT. While not the same as a UGA, UF, or 'Bama, those two FBS teams hold down the main interests of the casual college football fan in Virginia. Several alums living within an hour of JMU have UVA/ VT season tickets and NOT JMU's even after regularly attending games as a student.

This is part of the reason JMU should stay FCS for the time being since local conferences at the FBS level don't make sense and the considerable 3rd pony factor. Could it change and has interest grown like wild fire? Yes, but only to make 3rd place more respectable.

[FormerPokeCenter]

When I read posts by typical fans from Georgia State, University of Chapel Hill @ Charlotte, USL, or Southwest Texas State @ San Marcos, I think I have an inkling of what Alice felt after stepping through the looking glass....Things just get curiouser and curiouser....

I keep thinking that the Chesire Cat is grinning his furry *** off or that the Mad Hatter will make an apearance on one of these threads....

Perhaps the Chesire Cat, drawn as a Panther, would make a great mascot for Georgia State....I'm thinking that the Mad Hatter, with a pickaxe in his hand would be fantastic as the mascot for the University of Chapel Hill @ Charlotte....

[JMUNJ08]

At no point in your ramblings did you put together a coherent thought, that is the dumbest thing I've ever read on this board (and that is a mightly tall order) and may God have mercy on your soul.

UNCC fans apologies to you for anything I've said in the past, you are not even close to the most out of touch fanbase, even you guys aren't this delusion. Wow, just wow.

I have to disagree with you. There are ALOT dumber things posted on this board.

At least he had a thought but the real key is the actual ALUMNI in Atlanta for each school. Just because a city is made up of mostly blacks, latinos, indians, etc. does not mean they are going to identify with a university that has the same demographics. The key to owning Atlanta is more than 1+1 math...

Anyone have those actual Alumni stats for Atlanta???

[cbarrier90]

Here's what I've learned from this thread:

If your team has not experienced what it's like to have a winning program at this level, coupled with some downright embarassing moments along the way, then the Sun Belt appears as a safe haven (because, face it, your time at this level sucked, and you now get to say you're FBS.)

On the contrary, if your team has experienced what it's like to have a winning program at this level, you're very skeptical of moving to the Sun Belt. You draw great crowds, you win football games, and on the surface, when compared with a program in the Sun Belt, it appears that the move is lateral at best.

If you make a move, you make a move "up." In Georgia State's case, there's nowhere to go but up.

[nwFL Griz]

What kills me about all this is the "little brother syndrome" nearly all of you seem to carry in regards to FBS football and any school that wants to move to that level. It seems to happen no matter who it is that talks about moving.

The real thing is, whether you like it or not, is that there is a certain amount of prestige attached to being a member of the FBS. The average person, even those who might not be football fans, hear about FBS teams....even crappy Sunbelt teams. Now, if that translates into success for the school is another matter. Exposure as a Sunbelt team far outweighs the exposure as a CAA team. That's just the way things are.

My biggest question for all of you is, why do you care so much? If it is not your school, then wish them well, discuss the pros and cons, if you want, but stop with the "sky is falling" garbage. Saying things like "the big lie that refuses to die" are ridiculous, and frankly take away from any point you might be trying to make.

Anyhow, GaSt, good luck. I think you are making a mistake, but I don't begrudge you trying to raise yourself up.

[FormerPokeCenter]

What kills me about all this is the "little brother syndrome" nearly all of you seem to carry in regards to FBS football and any school that wants to move to that level. It seems to happen no matter who it is that talks about moving.

The real thing is, whether you like it or not, is that there is a certain amount of prestige attached to being a member of the FBS. The average person, even those who might not be football fans, hear about FBS teams....even crappy Sunbelt teams. Now, if that translates into success for the school is another matter. Exposure as a Sunbelt team far outweighs the exposure as a CAA team. That's just the way things are.

My biggest question for all of you is, why do you care so much? If it is not your school, then wish them well, discuss the pros and cons, if you want, but stop with the "sky is falling" garbage. Saying things like "the big lie that refuses to die" are ridiculous, and frankly take away from any point you might be trying to make.

Anyhow, GaSt, good luck. I think you are making a mistake, but I don't begrudge you trying to raise yourself up.

Your sentiments have been echoed by just about everybody on this thread. Where it gets off track is when you interject reality into the discussion, you'll inevitably get a nonsensical reply that begs an answer.

Dealing with Georgia State fans is like fighting a tar baby....once that crap gets on you, it's almost impossible to get off....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

This article is deliberately disingenuous. It doesn't cover a topic but rather cherry-picks stats and factoids to boost a predetermined position.

Are they not true?


First of all, Karl Benson's career path has nothing whatsoever to do with Georgia State's decision to move to the Sun Belt.

The last time the Sun Belt expanded was 2005, with FAU and FIU. Benson announces his intent to jump from the WAC, where he helped negotiate two transitions from FCS to FBS, and now Georgia State, in the span of two months, is coming to the Sun Belt. Coincidence? Yeah. Sure.


Second, one can't make the "leaving money on the table" argument and that money be only in the neighborhood of $300,000. GSU can make that up and more in one payday game in football.

You obviously missed all that stuff in the article on costs, where it costs at a bare minimum $880,000 yearly in scholarship money to get, what, one more guarantee game per year? That's also assuming they won't be paying any FCS home opponents to fill out their schedule, salaries don't rise... That $300,000 would be GaSt's money, and they wouldn't need to do anything to get it. This FBS guarantee money, however, comes with a boatload of costs.


Third, the argument about escalating salaries and staff costs is real but it is already an issue in FCS. It is not uncommon at all for the head football coach at many D1 institutions -- FCS or FBS -- to be its highest-paid employee.

But not nearly as big an issue as in FBS, even at the Sun Belt level.


Fourth, the scholarship argument is more than a bit hypocritical. FCS looks down its collective nose at D2 or D3 schools who won't pony up scholarship dollars to "better" their programs but regard FCS schools who make the move to FBS as blinded by fool's gold. If that process was good for Presbyterian and North Dakota to move to FCS, why isn't it at least as good if not better for Georgia State to move to the next level?

When did I ever thumb my nose at D-II or D-III programs who wish to stay at that level?


Fifth, the title of the article is blatant misinformation. In order for Georgia State to believe a "big lie", it means that someone is deliberately and maliciously lying to them. The article presupposes that person to be the eeevil Karl Benson who once committed the unspeakable crime of presiding over a weak conference and who dipped into his oily charlatan's bag-of-tricks and convinced the feeble minds at GaSt that joining his particular cult was good for them. On the other hand, I submit that the people who are directly accountable for Georgia State's athletics are far more informed and well-versed in athletics in general than most outside observers, particularly the author of this article. The "big lie" in this article is actually the idea that being a member of the Sun Belt is worse than being a member of any FCS conference. Granted, the Sun Belt isn't anywhere close to being a marquee FBS league at this point in time -- and may never be -- but divisional realignment is about a long-term view. By going to the Sun Belt, Georgia State is putting themselves in a position to make strides that -- let's face it -- they weren't going to make in the CAA either because of their lack of competitiveness or just by being affiliated with FCS. The fact is that most schools at the upper end of FCS in terms of competition and/or resources are bumping up against something of a ceiling and if they are willing to pay the price tag to break through, why shouldn't they?

The whole point is that so many people ever really, really look at the price tag. They, oh, I don't know, throw around the idea that one guarantee game a year is going to cover it. It's not. And it basically never has - only in the rarest of cases, like UConn's, has it made sense.

[realgsu]

I have to disagree with you. There are ALOT dumber things posted on this board.

At least he had a thought but the real key is the actual ALUMNI in Atlanta for each school. Just because a city is made up of mostly blacks, latinos, indians, etc. does not mean they are going to identify with a university that has the same demographics. The key to owning Atlanta is more than 1+1 math...

Anyone have those actual Alumni stats for Atlanta???

We have 100k + alumni who live in metro atlanta. We have 35k students and are projected to have near 50k by 2015. Because of our former function as the urban commuter school we have many more Atlantans with 1 or 2 degree connections than Tech which is a specialty school and UGA which always attracted well to do suburban kids. They also attract rural non college graduates as fans which is why they can put 80k in Sanford every Sat. That isn't our target. We basically need a mix of the old commuter alums to root for the degree on the wall (which is easier now that we play "in the same division as GT ans UGA"), transplants with no particular allegiance, and inner city blacks, with no college which would be our version of UGA's rural fan base. It may be a long shot but that needs to be our vision. We will be the city slicker version of UGA, which Tech could never do with their slide rulers and pocket protectors.

[GSU EAGLES]

We have 100k + alumni who live in metro atlanta. We have 35k students and are projected to have near 50k by 2015. Because of our former function as the urban commuter school we have many more Atlantans with 1 or 2 degree connections than Tech which is a specialty school and UGA which always attracted well to do suburban kids. They also attract rural non college graduates as fans which is why they can put 80k in Sanford every Sat. That isn't our target. We basically need a mix of the old commuter alums to root for the degree on the wall (which is easier now that we play "in the same division as GT ans UGA"), transplants with no particular allegiance, and inner city blacks, with no college which would be our version of UGA's rural fan base. It may be a long shot but that needs to be our vision. We will be the city slicker version of UGA, which Tech could never do with their slide rulers and pocket protectors.

Then why was your attendance so poor by the end of the season? There should still be the newness factor that boosts attendance. Let's be honest in that you had 8-10k at best at games late in the season and much less by the 4th quarter. Meanwhile UTSA was consistently putting 30k+ in the stands? Let's not pretend playing Arkansas State is going to cause attendance to suddenly double. The reason is that almost all of the alumni don't care, the students don't seem to be interested, and there are plenty of other things to do in Atlanta. Maybe if you get into the Big East it will bring up the interest level some. It is just hard to compete with the NFL, MLB, ACC and SEC.

[realgsu]

Then why was your attendance so poor by the end of the season? There should still be the newness factor that boosts attendance. Let's be honest in that you had 8-10k at best at games late in the season and much less by the 4th quarter. Meanwhile UTSA was consistently putting 30k+ in the stands? Let's not pretend playing Arkansas State is going to cause attendance to suddenly double. The reason is that almost all of the alumni don't care, the students don't seem to be interested, and there are plenty of other things to do in Atlanta. Maybe if you get into the Big East it will bring up the interest level some. It is just hard to compete with the NFL, MLB, ACC and SEC.

Because we stunk. We had 26k at the season opener and proceeded to go into the tank the rest of the season, mostly do to multiple suspensions and our punter playing qb the rest of the season. If you lose to a NAIA and a div 2 school it is hard to get a packed house to watch Campbell. The truth is that in Atlanta and in Ga, FBS football rules. Consider that despite Ga Southern 6 nc and stars like Adrian Peterson, you only draw 3 k more than us, and you are a playoff team to boot. It may not be overnight but I think there is room in Ga for a 3rd large program especially since Techs fan and Alumni base is getting older....go to a tech game and see how many blue hairs are out there. southern was too chicken **** to seize the opportunity...we aren't.

[Mr. C]

If FCS is so much better financially... why don't bottom feeder FBS schools ever move down to FCS? Why is there always a flood of schools moving UP but never any schools moving DOWN? xchinscratchx

It's called institutional ego. Nothing more. The financial facts are there for all to see on how much of a drain the lower quadrant of FBS endures for the ego of calling itself FBS.

[Mr. C]

This article is deliberately disingenuous. It doesn't cover a topic but rather cherry-picks stats and factoids to boost a predetermined position.

First of all, Karl Benson's career path has nothing whatsoever to do with Georgia State's decision to move to the Sun Belt.
Second, one can't make the "leaving money on the table" argument and that money be only in the neighborhood of $300,000. GSU can make that up and more in one payday game in football.
Third, the argument about escalating salaries and staff costs is real but it is already an issue in FCS. It is not uncommon at all for the head football coach at many D1 institutions -- FCS or FBS -- to be its highest-paid employee.
Fourth, the scholarship argument is more than a bit hypocritical. FCS looks down its collective nose at D2 or D3 schools who won't pony up scholarship dollars to "better" their programs but regard FCS schools who make the move to FBS as blinded by fool's gold. If that process was good for Presbyterian and North Dakota to move to FCS, why isn't it at least as good if not better for Georgia State to move to the next level?
Fifth, the title of the article is blatant misinformation. In order for Georgia State to believe a "big lie", it means that someone is deliberately and maliciously lying to them. The article presupposes that person to be the eeevil Karl Benson who once committed the unspeakable crime of presiding over a weak conference and who dipped into his oily charlatan's bag-of-tricks and convinced the feeble minds at GaSt that joining his particular cult was good for them. On the other hand, I submit that the people who are directly accountable for Georgia State's athletics are far more informed and well-versed in athletics in general than most outside observers, particularly the author of this article. The "big lie" in this article is actually the idea that being a member of the Sun Belt is worse than being a member of any FCS conference. Granted, the Sun Belt isn't anywhere close to being a marquee FBS league at this point in time -- and may never be -- but divisional realignment is about a long-term view. By going to the Sun Belt, Georgia State is putting themselves in a position to make strides that -- let's face it -- they weren't going to make in the CAA either because of their lack of competitiveness or just by being affiliated with FCS. The fact is that most schools at the upper end of FCS in terms of competition and/or resources are bumping up against something of a ceiling and if they are willing to pay the price tag to break through, why shouldn't they?

So I guess you are okay with the mighty Sun Belt being the destination for Liberty in a few years?

[I-16Bandit]

southern was too chicken **** to seize the opportunity...we aren't.

Wrong. State claims that they "upgraded" to FBS or that Southern was "scared" to move up. In reality, what the hell has State done to "upgrade?" You were handed a stadium to use, you have a PISS POOR basketball arena, and most of your budget is forced upon by your students. The ONLY reason Georgia State is moving up is so that the Sun Belt can use you as advertisement in Atlanta. You are just a billboard that the Sun Belt is buying. Georgia Southern has actually WORKED to get to where we are now. We raised money to build our stadium and to improve it over the years, something that State doesn't have to worry about. We fundraise and have actual donors, along with students for our budget. We have a great baseball facility, but pretty bad basketball facilities. But, we are not in the #9 media market.

So I ask again, what the **** has State actually DONE to "upgrade" to where you are?

[dgtw]

Georgia State sounds a lot like UAB. UAB has an urban, mostly commuter student body. I lurk on their fan message board and a big complaint is they see a lot of students on campus wearing Alabama or Auburn shirts and hats.

That tells me that UAB students may grow up fans of one of the Big Two, but choose to go to UAB for various reasons. They aren't going to suddenly give up lifelong affiliations with who they've grown up cheering for.

[Mountaineer#96]

The real question for the recent GaState fans on here is: If you guys are so big time ATL owning FBS bound BAMFs, why are you posting so much crap on your little cousins (here) FCS message boards? Transition with your school and go spew this crap at the "big boys" where "you belong".

[Apphole]

I'm watching a bunch of GaSt students on Bait Car right now.

[citdog]

In which country is the state of Mcneese in again?



http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/confederate-national-flag.jpg


the same one you're in schleprock.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

...

Just curious. I've been wondering this since I joined this board. Are you John Rawl?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Just curious. I've been wondering this since I joined this board. Are you John Rawl?

John Rawl, or John Rawls? That S makes a difference....

And, John Rawls, with an S would be relevant for the discussion on Georgia State's entry into the Sunbelt. Rawls appropriated the concept of "The Veil of Ignorance" and posited that it should be used when evaluating the morality of aspects of social cooperation.

The Veil of Ignorance would be pretty cool for this discussion, too. Pretend that Georgia State Fans were ignorant...okay...nevermind...we don't have to make that assumption. Start from the position that Georgia State fans are ignorant about what possible benefits the move might have for them, personally, with regard to esteem, image pereception, etc.

Just look at the facts without the Panther colored glasses. Evaluate your move without the secondary gain of what the nation's perception of you MIGHT be in a perfect world and look at the transaction purely logically and then determine if if'ts a good move or not.

The thing about the Veil of Ignorance, Georgia State fans, is that you're supposed to use it as a tool, not embrace it as a perpetual way of life ;)

[PaladinFan]

It's called institutional ego. Nothing more. The financial facts are there for all to see on how much of a drain the lower quadrant of FBS endures for the ego of calling itself FBS.

I called it "pride" on another thread, but institutional ego works just as well. I think it applies both ways, too. FBS schools refusing to move down, and FCS schools insisting on moving up.

Again, I just cannot see how moving from something stable to something completely unstable makes any kind of sense. I can understand the pros of the move, but the cons just mountainous.

[Libertine]

So I guess you are okay with the mighty Sun Belt being the destination for Liberty in a few years?

Just as Georgia State clearly is, I am absolutely OK with the Sun Belt being an IMMEDIATE destination for Liberty. You can't climb the ladder if you never even get on the bottom rung.

[Cocky]

I called it "pride" on another thread, but institutional ego works just as well. I think it applies both ways, too. FBS schools refusing to move down, and FCS schools insisting on moving up.

Again, I just cannot see how moving from something stable to something completely unstable makes any kind of sense. I can understand the pros of the move, but the cons just mountainous.

Souldnt the same be said for the non schloarship FCSs who refuse to go D III?

FCS would be more stable if everyone participated in the playoffs and provided schloarships in all sports on an equal basis. If you refuse, move to a more appropriate level for your commitment level.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just as Georgia State clearly is, I am absolutely OK with the Sun Belt being an IMMEDIATE destination for Liberty. You can't climb the ladder if you never even get on the bottom rung.

There is a key difference between Liberty and Georgia State's athletic situations, though, that bears noting. Liberty is in a single-bid NCAA basketball tournament conference in the Big South. Georgia State is leaving an awful lot of guaranteed, no-strings money in a very solid mid-major basketball conference to join a conference whose champ was in the First Four last year - in order to lose money in FBS.

If Liberty went Sun Belt, you could at a bare minimum say that it was a wash in basketball or see it as an upgrade. The Panthers? Not so much.

[danefan]

Souldnt the same be said for the non schloarship FCSs who refuse to go D III?

FCS would be more stable if everyone participated in the playoffs and provided schloarships in all sports on an equal basis. If you refuse, move to a more appropriate level for your commitment level.

Which non-scholarship team refuses to go to DIII? Last I checked they weren't allowed to go to DIII.

[PaladinFan]

Souldnt the same be said for the non schloarship FCSs who refuse to go D III?

FCS would be more stable if everyone participated in the playoffs and provided schloarships in all sports on an equal basis. If you refuse, move to a more appropriate level for your commitment level.

I worry less about them because they play division I athletics in everything else. D-III schools just play D-III as I understand it. Wouldn't be quite right to force Davidson to drop to D-III or force them to drop their football program.

[TheRevSFA]

Because we stunk. We had 26k at the season opener and proceeded to go into the tank the rest of the season, mostly do to multiple suspensions and our punter playing qb the rest of the season. If you lose to a NAIA and a div 2 school it is hard to get a packed house to watch Campbell. The truth is that in Atlanta and in Ga, FBS football rules. Consider that despite Ga Southern 6 nc and stars like Adrian Peterson, you only draw 3 k more than us, and you are a playoff team to boot. It may not be overnight but I think there is room in Ga for a 3rd large program especially since Techs fan and Alumni base is getting older....go to a tech game and see how many blue hairs are out there. southern was too chicken **** to seize the opportunity...we aren't.

UTSA stunk too! They got "McMurried" by a DIII transitioning to a DII school. Just to give you a comparision, SFA played McMurry in the opening week and beat them 82-6. It was close for a while. Even with getting beat by a huge scrub, UTSA brought great crowds to the Alamodome so Georgia State cannot use that excuse.

One of the arguments that always gets me is that "If we go FBS, we get to play in a bowl." That's great, except for the fact that you basically have to win the Sun Belt or have a good season and be top 2 to even get a nod to the NOLA Bowl or the GoDaddy.com bowl. So if you can't beat Louisiana-Lafayette or Arkansas State, what did you get out of your season?

Also someone mentioned national exposure, and I ask..can you think of any Sun Belt games that were on TV on Saturday last year? I remember there was a Thursday night one with stAte and (someone)..but to be honest, you have regional coverage at best. UNT games aren't shown in the DFW market.

So besides the fact that you might get a higher guarantee and on occasion get a scrub FBS team playing you at home (man Kentucky at GA State is going to be a barn burner)..what is the point of jumping?

[asumike83]

One thing to note about the season opener is that it was against Clark Atlanta. When 26,000 folks show up for a game with a school that shares the same city and no other home game draws half of that, it would certainly lead me to believe that Clark may have brought a good number of those. I could be wrong but it seems possible.

I genuinely wish GA State well and hope they succeed at FBS football. However, it is likely that they will suffer through some very tough seasons the next few years and I hope they can maintain sufficient support to get through it.

[Gringer1]

G-State draws well on their first game of the season because they play it the Friday before the kickoff game in Atlanta. Last year, Boise and UGA played the day after G-State's game. Thousands of Boise and UGA fans were already in town and went to the State game because the tickets were cheap and they needed something to occupy their time.

[henfan]

Regarding the question why so few schools have returned to the FCS/I-AA level from FBS/I-A. Let's turn that question on it's side and ask why schools like Delaware, Youngstown, McNeese St., Georgia Southern, App State, Montana, Montana State, JMU, ect., who could easily and clearly meet what little standards exist at the FBS level, haven't sought FBS membership? If money, status and prestige were so abundant and such a guarantee with an FBS move, why didn't those type of FCS schools reclassify years ago?

I don't begrudge any school that seeks reclassification, so long as they are honest about their intentions and the potential for financial & competitive success. The problem is that the schools and many of their fans seldom acknowledge the risks and realities and make reclassification seem in every instance like a no-brainer, all the while slagging the FCS philosophy.

[realgsu]

Turns out by joining the SBC, we will save 150k on travel expenses while gaining over 500k in conference revenue payouts.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/04/16/gsu-could-save-150k-in-football-travel-in-sun-belt/?cxntfid=blogs_georgia_state_sports

Add to that increased tix sales, marketing, guarantee games and donorship, If this is the big lie, then lie to me.

[Libertine]

There is a key difference between Liberty and Georgia State's athletic situations, though, that bears noting. Liberty is in a single-bid NCAA basketball tournament conference in the Big South. Georgia State is leaving an awful lot of guaranteed, no-strings money in a very solid mid-major basketball conference to join a conference whose champ was in the First Four last year - in order to lose money in FBS.

If Liberty went Sun Belt, you could at a bare minimum say that it was a wash in basketball or see it as an upgrade. The Panthers? Not so much.

Once again, $300,000 is not "a lot" of money by Division I standards but this should also tell you then that basketball money is not the driving force here. Further, their basketball program hasn't been measurably benefited by being in the CAA anyway.
The 2011-2012 season was the Panthers' first winning season ever in the CAA. Prior to that, they were sub-.500 in conference going all the way back to their days in the Atlantic Sun. Even if they had somehow won the CAA tournament one year to get into the NCAA's, it's almost guaranteed that they would have been playing in a First Four game themselves. They will, at least in theory, be immediately competitive in the Sun Belt and, given the general lack of success of GaSt's basketball program, I don't feel that this move's impact on their basketball affiliations even warrants much consideration.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Turns out by joining the SBC, we will save 150k on travel expenses while gaining over 500k in conference revenue payouts.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/04/16/gsu-could-save-150k-in-football-travel-in-sun-belt/?cxntfid=blogs_georgia_state_sports

Add to that increased tix sales, marketing, guarantee games and donorship, If this is the big lie, then lie to me.

Increased ticket sales, increased donorship and increased guarantee games have yet to be seen....

In all seriousness, I hope those work out for you...but those aren't done deals yet....

[WH49er]

Add to that increased tix sales



So you think 3 wins in FBS vs. 3 wins in FCS are going to increase ticket sales that much? I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

[FormerPokeCenter]

So you think 3 wins in FBS vs. 3 wins in FCS are going to increase ticket sales that much? I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

Oh My God! A rational and reasonable response from UNCC...I'm marking this day on my calendar !! ;)

[realgsu]

So you think 3 wins in FBS vs. 3 wins in FCS are going to increase ticket sales that much? I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

I think games against Troy, MTSU and WKU with a sprinkled in NC State and Vandy will make for higher tix sales than playing Campbell, James Madison and Jax St., who half of the world thinks is in Florida.

[realgsu]

So you think 3 wins in FBS vs. 3 wins in FCS are going to increase ticket sales that much? I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

When you replace us in the CAA we'll see what your tix sales are.

[WH49er]

When you replace us in the CAA we'll see what your tix sales are.


Yes we will.



Couldn't resist could you?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Turns out by joining the SBC, we will save 150k on travel expenses while gaining over 500k in conference revenue payouts.

http://blogs.ajc.com/georgia-state-sports/2012/04/16/gsu-could-save-150k-in-football-travel-in-sun-belt/?cxntfid=blogs_georgia_state_sports

Add to that increased tix sales, marketing, guarantee games and donorship, If this is the big lie, then lie to me.

... while spending, in the most conservative of estimates, $1 million extra a year. And probably much more.

[PaladinFan]

So you think 3 wins in FBS vs. 3 wins in FCS are going to increase ticket sales that much? I could be wrong but I just don't see it.

Is this a good time to note that last year's App State game at Furman drew 12,800 fans while UL-Lafayette at MTSU drew 13,500?

That is, two schools with a combined enrollment of 43,000 students managed 700 more fans at a football game than two FCS schools with a combined enrollment of 23,000. In 2010, the SunBelt averaged about 4,000 more fans a game than the SoCon did (and the SoCon has four tiny schools and a military college without a large enrollment).

I think the idea that moving to the SunBelt increases ticket sales is pure fiction, in my opinion.

[realgsu]

Is this a good time to note that last year's App State game at Furman drew 12,800 fans while UL-Lafayette at MTSU drew 13,500?

That is, two schools with a combined enrollment of 43,000 students managed 700 more fans at a football game than two FCS schools with a combined enrollment of 23,000. In 2010, the SunBelt averaged about 4,000 more fans a game than the SoCon did (and the SoCon has four tiny schools and a military college without a large enrollment).

I think the idea that moving to the SunBelt increases ticket sales is pure fiction, in my opinion.

Funny that you mentioned Lafayette. http://www.ragincajuns.com/news/2012/2/7/FB_0207121651.aspx They had the highest increase in tix sales in the NCAA

[realgsu]

... while spending, in the most conservative of estimates, $1 million extra a year. And probably much more.

So the worse case scenario then it would be a wash. I'll take that to give my university a higher profile.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The current Sun Belt Map:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/SunBeltLocations3.png/350px-SunBeltLocations3.png

So Troy, MTSU, Western Kentucky, and South Alabama are the bus trips.

That seems pretty dicey to me in terms of talking about "saving on travel", especially since Troy and/or MTSU might be targets for C-USCluster*****. And if, as rumored, the Sun Belt and WAC work out a merger....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the idea that moving to the SunBelt increases ticket sales is pure fiction, in my opinion.

I thought it was the attendance numbers themselves that were the fiction. xlolx

[WH49er]

Funny that you mentioned Lafayette. http://www.ragincajuns.com/news/2012/2/7/FB_0207121651.aspx They had the highest increase in tix sales in the NCAA

Yes that will happen in their first 9 win season since 1976. First bowl game ever.


If they can sustain this attendance level over a few years then it is noteworthy.

[danefan]

Has anyone with any knowledge of the actual finances involved done a study on the teams that moved up to non-BCS conferences in the last 10 years?

[Cocky]

I worry less about them because they play division I athletics in everything else. D-III schools just play D-III as I understand it. Wouldn't be quite right to force Davidson to drop to D-III or force them to drop their football program.

But part of the reason school desire FBS is the various levels of committment in the FCS. I dont agree with non schloarship DI football. Either drop the sport or be DIII.

[Cocky]

Has anyone with any knowledge of the actual finances involved done a study on the teams that moved up to non-BCS conferences in the last 10 years?

All are losing money.

[realgsu]

All are losing money.

As are FCS schools.

[danefan]

All are losing money.


As are FCS schools.

The question is how much and is it more or less than before the move?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All are losing money.


As are FCS schools.

Just not nearly as much.

[dbackjon]

So, by GaState logic, since 30% of Atlanta is black, they are going to support GaState more than the "white" schools of Tech and UGA.

By that logic, shouldn't the SunBelt have invited ClarkAtlanta instead?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Funny that you mentioned Lafayette. http://www.ragincajuns.com/news/2012/2/7/FB_0207121651.aspx They had the highest increase in tix sales in the NCAA

USL has been a I-! school since the 1970's....and has been playing football for 109 years....in all that time, they've had just ONE nine-win season before this year and only three 8 win season....

They report attendance like Georgia State does, speculatively, instead of counting real fans in the seats.....

For years, they've reported that an empty stadium had 20k in the stands...so...any increase at all doesn't surprise me...

[TheRevSFA]

UNT had better attendance last year thanks to the new stadium that was built.

However, they still can't get coverage thanks to SMU and TCU in the DFW area.

[dgtw]

G-State draws well on their first game of the season because they play it the Friday before the kickoff game in Atlanta. Last year, Boise and UGA played the day after G-State's game. Thousands of Boise and UGA fans were already in town and went to the State game because the tickets were cheap and they needed something to occupy their time.

I'd have to be really bored to attend a Georgia State-Clark football game.

[bandit]

http://www.college-sports-journal.com/index.php/79-college-sports-journal/chuck-burton/204-panthers-fall-for-the-big-lie-that-refuses-to-die



The "joys" of Sun Belt membership - spelled out in gory detail.


xlolx Total and absolute BS. Purest fantasy. And another reminder that anybody on the internet can be a "columnist" lol.

[dbackjon]

xlolx Total and absolute BS. Purest fantasy. And another reminder that anybody on the internet can be a "columnist" lol.

Care to tell what is BS?

Because it is pretty accurate if you wanted to open your eyes

[FormerPokeCenter]

Care to tell what is BS?

Because it is pretty accurate if you wanted to open your eyes

Georgia State fans can't open their eyes when their heads are shoved that far up their own asses...Fecal material can cause conjunctivitis...

[Tuscon]

Care to tell what is BS?

Because it is pretty accurate if you wanted to open your eyes

There were facts in the article that were negative, but completely ignored the fact that would balance it out.

He flat out states that we aren't thinking of the increased cost to scholarships, when our AD mentions covering those costs in the quote he included. He mentions the $300k a year we're leaving on the CAA table, but fails to mention we're saving half that amount in travel expenses in football alone and the average payout from the Sun Belt is $750k. He mentions increased salary costs when our head coaches are already on par if not above the average Sun Belt school. He mentions ADDED Charter flights to BCS money games when we'll make double the payout and SAVE on charter flights by not being in the CAA(part of the $150k savings in travel).

He mentions us getting money through student fees. We have 32k students currently enrolled. Our Athletics fee is a WHOPPING $263(sarcasm). Just for some insight into that. UGA charges $53 per course. If a student is full time taking 5 classes, that's $265. Georgia Southern charges $154 a semester. That's only $100 less. It's not like we're breaking the bank from students with this. We just have a lot of them.

So if you look at it with an unbiased eye most of his facts are true, but he takes them completely out of context and twists them to a negative even when they clearly are not.

[dbackjon]

There were facts in the article that were negative, but completely ignored the fact that would balance it out.

He flat out states that we aren't thinking of the increased cost to scholarships, when our AD mentions covering those costs in the quote he included. He mentions the $300k a year we're leaving on the CAA table, but fails to mention we're saving half that amount in travel expenses in football alone and the average payout from the Sun Belt is $750k. He mentions increased salary costs when our head coaches are already on par if not above the average Sun Belt school. He mentions ADDED Charter flights to BCS money games when we'll make double the payout and SAVE on charter flights by not being in the CAA(part of the $150k savings in travel).

He mentions us getting money through student fees. We have 32k students currently enrolled. Our Athletics fee is a WHOPPING $263(sarcasm). Just for some insight into that. UGA charges $53 per course. If a student is full time taking 5 classes, that's $265. Georgia Southern charges $154 a semester. That's only $100 less. It's not like we're breaking the bank from students with this. We just have a lot of them.

So if you look at it with an unbiased eye most of his facts are true, but he takes them completely out of context and twists them to a negative even when they clearly are not.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

What it boils down to is that each school has differing motivations for changlng conferences, etc.
What irks many of us is the assumption on GaState and UNCC fans (and some from other schools) that being FBS automatically means better football or a better conference - because it doesn't.

SunBelt football is no more relevant than SoCon or CAA football to 99% of the public. But if Ga State thinks that FBS is the best way for them to sell football in the ATL market, then by all means go FBS - just don't ignore the reality that you are still not "big leagues" and recognize that at least for now, you are taking a step back in basketball affiliation.

Financially, it is likely a wash - higher schollie cost (at least 44 more) offset by bigger money game payouts.

The most honest approach is what I have seen from some poster - yeah, we know the SunBelt is nothing special, but we hope it is a stepping stone to a good conference. Don't think for a moment that any Sunbelt team would turn down a CUSA invite - because every one would be out the door in a second.

[Tuscon]

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

What it boils down to is that each school has differing motivations for changlng conferences, etc.
What irks many of us is the assumption on GaState and UNCC fans (and some from other schools) that being FBS automatically means better football or a better conference - because it doesn't.

SunBelt football is no more relevant than SoCon or CAA football to 99% of the public. But if Ga State thinks that FBS is the best way for them to sell football in the ATL market, then by all means go FBS - just don't ignore the reality that you are still not "big leagues" and recognize that at least for now, you are taking a step back in basketball affiliation.

Financially, it is likely a wash - higher schollie cost (at least 44 more) offset by bigger money game payouts.

The most honest approach is what I have seen from some poster - yeah, we know the SunBelt is nothing special, but we hope it is a stepping stone to a good conference. Don't think for a moment that any Sunbelt team would turn down a CUSA invite - because every one would be out the door in a second.

I have consistently said on here, that regardless of the competition in football a move to the Sun Belt raises the ceiling on our program. Either we will be part of making the Sun Belt a better conference, or we will use it as a stepping stone as you say. Either way, onward and upward.

I'm sorry, but the Sun Belt is much more relevant. Maybe not by much, but getting in ANY bowl game is better than winning the FCS national championship. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but the exposure at the FBS level IS greater. I do understand we are taking a step back in basketball and that sucks, but we'll see where that lands us if it's true that GMU and VCU are leaving.

You have scholarship costs offset by more money in BCS games, but you're leaving out higher payouts for tv contracts, less costs in traveling, etc.. I don't think it's going to be a wash. We'll have more money to do what we already wanted to do - upgrade the Sports Arena(badly needed) and move our baseball/softball fields from Panthersville closer to campus. But again, we were already going to do that before Sun Belt.

I know they'd be out the door in a second. I would hope that our administration would take a look at the pros and cons and do whatever is right(which is probably bolting for CUSA). It doesn't mean I don't want to make themost of our time in the Sun Belt though.

[realgsu]

SunBelt football is no more relevant than SoCon or CAA football to 99% of the public.

Well I know this. FCS schools have to beg and plead Phil Steele to do a pre-season mag whereas Sun Belt teams know that they'll have at least a page on Lindy's, Athlon and Phil Steele.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Sun Belt teams know that they'll have at least a page on Lindy's, Athlon and Phil Steele.

Only so the rest of the FBS can see who the cupcake of the week is gonna be ;)

[realgsu]

Only so the rest of the FBS can see who the cupcake of the week is gonna be ;)

Its a hard job but somebody has to do it.

[FormerPokeCenter]

Its a hard job but somebody has to do it.

True dat!

[henfan]

I'm sorry, but the Sun Belt is much more relevant. Maybe not by much, but getting in ANY bowl game is better than winning the FCS national championship. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but the exposure at the FBS level IS greater.

Opinion is fine, so long as it's not mistaken for fact. Opinion is often paid more regard when it's fact based.

The SBC certainly is not any more relevant than the CAA or SoCon in any regard. As someone whose school has actually won NCAA D-I & D-II National Championships and played in bowl games, I have to say that bowl games, particularly the minor D-I FBS bowls with nothing at stake, hold no allure whatsoever to me or anyone that I've ever spoken with associated with the UD program. To answer my rhetorical question from earlier, that's precisely why schools with solid FCS fanbases haven't reclassified. The competitive and financial incentives just don't exist at the FBS level for our schools.

I would strongly agree that the potential for national exposure of a university or FB program is greater at the FBS level, but there's absolutely no guarantees, and especially in a league that seldom gets any national notice like the SBC. It's a roll of the dice that seldom pays off in many of the ways fans think that it will.

I hope for your sake that it works out for GSU. You've obviously been a very ardent Panther supporter from the start.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

John Rawl, or John Rawls? That S makes a difference....


This guy: http://www.yall.com/jon_rawl.shtml

[dbackjon]

Well I know this. FCS schools have to beg and plead Phil Steele to do a pre-season mag whereas Sun Belt teams know that they'll have at least a page on Lindy's, Athlon and Phil Steele.


Yes, Lindy's/Athlon put out a magazine with Sunbelt in mind...

Hell, even most of the Sunbelt fans buy the magazine to check out the SEC/Big 12 pages, not the Sunbelt page, which is usually so barren of information you could learn more about the Sunbelt here.

[Tuscon]

Yes, Lindy's/Athlon put out a magazine with Sunbelt in mind...

Hell, even most of the Sunbelt fans buy the magazine to check out the SEC/Big 12 pages, not the Sunbelt page, which is usually so barren of information you could learn more about the Sunbelt here.

Let's face it, buying a print magazine for sports information(or anything for that matter) is a little stupid in this day and age. By the time the info is printed, some of it is wrong and updated on the internet.

[dbackjon]

Let's face it, buying a print magazine for sports information(or anything for that matter) is a little stupid in this day and age. By the time the info is printed, some of it is wrong and updated on the internet.

yup - haven't bought one in years. Everything is more up to date on line.

[Blue Eagle]

Originally Posted by Tuscon

"I'm sorry, but the Sun Belt is much more relevant. Maybe not by much, but getting in ANY bowl game is better than winning the FCS national championship. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but the exposure at the FBS level IS greater."

Do you seriously believe Ga Southern would trade their 6 FCS National Championships for 6 GMAC Bowl wins?

NEVER!!!

For one thing, we got to see the Eagles win 24 play-off games during the 6 years they won their NCs - as compared to seeing just 6 bowl games!

[Tuscon]

Originally Posted by Tuscon

"I'm sorry, but the Sun Belt is much more relevant. Maybe not by much, but getting in ANY bowl game is better than winning the FCS national championship. I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but the exposure at the FBS level IS greater."

Do you seriously believe Ga Southern would trade their 6 FCS National Championships for 6 GMAC Bowl wins?

NEVER!!!

For one thing, we got to see the Eagles win 24 play-off games during the 6 years they won their NCs - as compared to seeing just 6 bowl games!

I don't think you should leave the FCS either. It's a good fit for Georgia Southern.

[I-16Bandit]

I don't think you should leave the FCS either. It's a good fit for Georgia Southern.

The FBS/BCS just needs to adopt a playoff system. And something more than the measly 4 team system that they are talking about. Maybe have bowl games coincide with the playoff games somehow. A playoff system to determine the Nat'l Champion would benefit every team, and not be bias to a certain few, like how things are now.

...oh I forgot. The big boys with the suits would lose a couple million if this happened.

[Tuscon]

The FBS/BCS just needs to adopt a playoff system. And something more than the measly 4 team system that they are talking about. Maybe have bowl games coincide with the playoff games somehow. A playoff system to determine the Nat'l Champion would benefit every team, and not be bias to a certain few, like how things are now.

...oh I forgot. The big boys with the suits would lose a couple million if this happened.

I really don't understand the logic there either. Have they not seen March Madness? Many pay ZERO attention to basketball until then. All of the teams in a playoff system would garner national attention even at the first round. It seems to me you pad your pockets by making people play for something and having every game attract the eyes of the nation rather than a region.

[klak]

I really don't understand the logic there either. Have they not seen March Madness? Many pay ZERO attention to basketball until then. All of the teams in a playoff system would garner national attention even at the first round. It seems to me you pad your pockets by making people play for something and having every game attract the eyes of the nation rather than a region.

I believe the market analysis showed that the NCAA would more than double their money by doing just an 8 game playoff. The catch is that money would be divided among EVERYONE instead of just to the Big 6 conferences. It would still be an overall increase, but then the Big 6 start to lose a little bit of power.

[I-16Bandit]

I really don't understand the logic there either. Have they not seen March Madness? Many pay ZERO attention to basketball until then. All of the teams in a playoff system would garner national attention even at the first round. It seems to me you pad your pockets by making people play for something and having every game attract the eyes of the nation rather than a region.

Me. Haha :D

But hopefully things start changing. The talk of SOME kind of playoff is at least a start. Can't really call things fair that the SEC has dominated the Nat'l Championship in the recent years when 2 SEC teams are PICKED to play. I think Houston could have made a decent run at things last year. Don't get me wrong, LSU and Bama were light years ahead of everybody, but seeing how things unfold is the beauty of a playoff.

[Tuscon]

I believe the market analysis showed that the NCAA would more than double their money by doing just an 8 game playoff. The catch is that money would be divided among EVERYONE instead of just to the Big 6 conferences. It would still be an overall increase, but then the Big 6 start to lose a little bit of power.

This is the key. You have a playoff in basketball where they see mid majors like VCU coming up and getting a chance to embarrass them. It evens the score just a bit and the Big 6 can't have that.

[I-16Bandit]

This is the key. You have a playoff in basketball where they see mid majors like VCU coming up and getting a chance to embarrass them. It evens the score just a bit and ESPN can't have that.

FIFY

[Tuscon]

FIFY

I disagree. They stand to gain in a playoff situation. What does ESPN care who is attracting national attention? Playoff games would be watched by all and ESPN would be making bank. The Big 6 don't want mid-majors bumping them off their thrones.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I disagree. They stand to gain in a playoff situation. What does ESPN care who is attracting national attention? Playoff games would be watched by all and ESPN would be making bank. The Big 6 don't want mid-majors bumping them off their thrones.

Please continue. You're making an excellent case against joining the Sun Belt. xlolx

[Tuscon]

Please continue. You're making an excellent case against joining the Sun Belt. xlolx

No really. Still no one watches the FCS playoffs except the people on this board.

[cbarrier90]

No really. Still no one watches the FCS playoffs except the people on this board.

Your 2009 Bowl rating averages by conference.

Big 12, 6.13 (7 games)
Big Ten, 5.70 (7 games)
SEC, 5.65 (8 games)
Pac-10, 4.80 (5 games)
Mountain West, 3.36 (5 games)
ACC, 3.34 (10 games)
Big East, 2.68 (6 games)
WAC, 2.18 (5 games)
Sun Belt, 1.40 (2 games)
MAC, 1.30 (5 games)
Conference USA, 1.22 (6 games)

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2009/01/bowl_tv_ratings.html

By comparison, 2009 App-Montana, a national semi-final, got a 1.76 rating on cable. Previous national championship games that were broadcast on CBS got higher ratings.

I said previously in this thread: If you're a powerhouse FCS program, a move to the Sun Belt looks lateral at best.

[Gringer1]

Your 2009 Bowl rating averages by conference.

Big 12, 6.13 (7 games)
Big Ten, 5.70 (7 games)
SEC, 5.65 (8 games)
Pac-10, 4.80 (5 games)
Mountain West, 3.36 (5 games)
ACC, 3.34 (10 games)
Big East, 2.68 (6 games)
WAC, 2.18 (5 games)
Sun Belt, 1.40 (2 games)
MAC, 1.30 (5 games)
Conference USA, 1.22 (6 games)

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2009/01/bowl_tv_ratings.html

By comparison, 2009 App-Montana, a national semi-final, got a 1.76 rating on cable. Previous national championship games that were broadcast on CBS got higher ratings.

Please do not attempt to use facts against G-State fans. They get angry and start tossing the words "media" and "dome" around when that happens. We've got some State nut over on the Georgia Southern board right now ranting about how we compete for "pee wee" championships and how we're "division 2". All while his team was never competitive in our "pee wee" league and was losing to actual D2 schools...

[FormerPokeCenter]

If you're a powerhouse FCS program, a move to the Sun Belt looks lateral at best.

Apples and oranges with regard to the thread topic ;)

[Apphole]

Your 2009 Bowl rating averages by conference.

Big 12, 6.13 (7 games)
Big Ten, 5.70 (7 games)
SEC, 5.65 (8 games)
Pac-10, 4.80 (5 games)
Mountain West, 3.36 (5 games)
ACC, 3.34 (10 games)
Big East, 2.68 (6 games)
WAC, 2.18 (5 games)
Sun Belt, 1.40 (2 games)
MAC, 1.30 (5 games)
Conference USA, 1.22 (6 games)

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2009/01/bowl_tv_ratings.html

By comparison, 2009 App-Montana, a national semi-final, got a 1.76 rating on cable. Previous national championship games that were broadcast on CBS got higher ratings.

I said previously in this thread: If you're a powerhouse FCS program, a move to the Sun Belt looks lateral at best.

True, but these ratings come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo, Montana ect make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

It doesn't matter if GaSt or UNCC is playing FCS, FBS, Church league or the NFC South, no one is going to care to watch.

[cbarrier90]

True, but these rating come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo and Montana make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

xshhhx We'll cross that bridge when we come to it. haha

[Tuscon]

Your 2009 Bowl rating averages by conference.

Big 12, 6.13 (7 games)
Big Ten, 5.70 (7 games)
SEC, 5.65 (8 games)
Pac-10, 4.80 (5 games)
Mountain West, 3.36 (5 games)
ACC, 3.34 (10 games)
Big East, 2.68 (6 games)
WAC, 2.18 (5 games)
Sun Belt, 1.40 (2 games)
MAC, 1.30 (5 games)
Conference USA, 1.22 (6 games)

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2009/01/bowl_tv_ratings.html

By comparison, 2009 App-Montana, a national semi-final, got a 1.76 rating on cable. Previous national championship games that were broadcast on CBS got higher ratings.

I said previously in this thread: If you're a powerhouse FCS program, a move to the Sun Belt looks lateral at best.

Congratulations on beating getting better ratings than two of the lower tier bowl games for your national semi-final.

[cbarrier90]

Congratulations on beating getting better ratings than two of the lower tier bowl games for your national semi-final.

You said "No one watches FCS playoff games." I showed you an FCS game that had higher ratings than the New Orleans Bowl. Now you're backtracking...

Congratulations on assuming a move to the Sun Belt will put you ahead of the FCS elite. xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I don't think you should leave the FCS either. It's a good fit for Georgia Southern.

True, in FCS you have to win or you don't get a reward.

[RichH2]

True, but these ratings come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo, Montana ect make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

It doesn't matter if GaSt or UNCC is playing FCS, FBS, Church league or the NFC South, no one is going to care to watch.

Wow, the arrogance to assume that only those schools matter in all of FCS. Parochial outlook at best, probably just ignorant

[ursus arctos horribilis]

True, but these ratings come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo, Montana ect make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

It doesn't matter if GaSt or UNCC is playing FCS, FBS, Church league or the NFC South, no one is going to care to watch.

Same dumb bull**** that was said in the past with Boise, Marhsall, Nevada, etc. leaving. I don't give a damn if it is obscure, it's what I like and if you need some validation from others then good enough. I don't ever want to see Montana leave this system for that one. It's horse****.

[TheRevSFA]

True, but these ratings come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo, Montana ect make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

It doesn't matter if GaSt or UNCC is playing FCS, FBS, Church league or the NFC South, no one is going to care to watch.

Way to raise your nose at the FCS. Are you sure you didn't go to UNC-Cee?

[Tuscon]

You said "No one watches FCS playoff games." I showed you an FCS game that had higher ratings than the New Orleans Bowl. Now you're backtracking...

Congratulations on assuming a move to the Sun Belt will put you ahead of the FCS elite. xlolx

Move one step "up" and the WAC has better ratings. Let me repeat that for you, THE WAC.

[bluehenbillk]

By comparison, 2009 App-Montana, a national semi-final, got a 1.76 rating on cable. Previous national championship games that were broadcast on CBS got higher ratings.


Keep in mind that 1.76 rating is the highest FCS ever has got. I don't know if the CBS/ABC telecasts from before ever even got that high - I've never seen a number for any of them higher than a lowly 1.76, which isn't anything to brag about actually....

[Apphole]

Wow, the arrogance to assume that only those schools matter in all of FCS. Parochial outlook at best, probably just ignorant

Way to raise your nose at the FCS. Are you sure you didn't go to UNC-Cee?

Hey now. First of all, I left an "ect" for the several other FCS powerhouses. And this is just regarding ratings, not the worth of a school of football program. Without the upper echelon of the FCS, the TV demand for such games will fall into obscurity. Its just a fact.

Very different than the "we're too good for the FCS" attitude of UNCCc, Rev. That was the most hurtful thing anyon has ever said to me on here. xbawlingx

[dbackjon]

True, but these ratings come from people wanting to see powerhouse FCS programs. Once App, GaSo, Montana ect make like the Jeffersons, the FCS really will epitomize obscurity.

It doesn't matter if GaSt or UNCC is playing FCS, FBS, Church league or the NFC South, no one is going to care to watch.

Talk about an arrogant mf.

Your program didn't become relevant until Marshall left.
Montana was a middle of the pack Big Sky team until Nevada, Idaho and Boise left.

To both schools credit, they stepped up and became dominant powers. To think that no school would/could step up to fill App and MT's shoes is assinine.

[TheRevSFA]

Move one step "up" and the WAC has better ratings. Let me repeat that for you, THE WAC.

I think the WAC and Sun Belt need to have the "bottom feeder" bowl and the winner gets a trophy shaped like a Flounder

[TheRevSFA]

Hey now. First of all I left an "ect" for the several other FCS powerhouses. And this is just regarding ratings, not the worth of a school of football program. Without the upper echelon of the FCS, the TV demand for such games will fall in obscurity. Its just a fact.

Very different than the "we're too good for the FCS" attitude of UNCC Rev. That was the most hurtful thing anyon has ever said to me on here. xbawlingx

Ha Ha..sorry sweetheart.

Now back when Boise State and Marshall left, the FCS was pretty obscure until Montana and App State stepped up (and others..I'm not leaving out other great FCS schools intentionally)...so if/when App leaves, do you really think a new powerhouse won't happen?

[Apphole]

Ha Ha..sorry sweetheart.

Now back when Boise State and Marshall left, the FCS was pretty obscure until Montana and App State stepped up (and others..I'm not leaving out other great FCS schools intentionally)...so if/when App leaves, do you really think a new powerhouse won't happen?


I'm sure there will be, but unless they can draw 25k or 30k fans every week, TV interest will be in the gutter.

[Apphole]

Talk about an arrogant mf.

Your program didn't become relevant until Marshall left.
Montana was a middle of the pack Big Sky team until Nevada, Idaho and Boise left.

To both schools credit, they stepped up and became dominant powers. To think that no school would/could step up to fill App and MT's shoes is assinine.

I wish some of you wouldn't get so butt-hurt about TV ratings. I love the FCS, but it doesn't hold much TV interest outside of a few schools. When these schools are gone, only a team that is successful AND has a large fan base, will draw viewers on the idiot box. Wofford is constantly at the top of the SoCon, but their fan base is quite small. When App and GaSo leave, they will likely be the top program in the conference (along with Furman) and be a perennial top-10 team in the nation. Does this mean more people are likely to tune in to their games during the playoffs? Of course not because they have a relatively small fan base.

I'm not saying the quality of football will plummet when the big time FCS schools leave, but national interest will.

And misspelling asinine is asinine

[TheRevSFA]

I'm sure there will be, but unless they can draw 25k or 30k fans every week, TV interest will be in the gutter.

What was App's attendance pre championship run?

[bluehenbillk]

Guys, I hate to burst your bubbles, but FCS is just that...FCS. Yep App State knocked off Michigan in 2007, and there are a few lesser upsets every year of FBS teams but 99% of America doesn't care. That doesn't mean you can't be passionate about your program, just don't carried away with delusions of grandeur.

[Apphole]

What was App's attendance pre championship run?

The important thing is that it's been even higher since we stopped winning NC's. We are poised to set yet another record when UM comes to town, yet no App player has a ring that says 2011 on it...

[Apphole]

Guys, I hate to burst your bubbles, but FCS is just that...FCS. Yep App State knocked off Michigan in 2007, and there are a few lesser upsets every year of FBS teams but 99% of America doesn't care. That doesn't mean you can't be passionate about your program, just don't carried away with delusions of grandeur.

+1

FCS is great, but you've got to drink some serious koolaid to deny the national perception.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Talk about an arrogant mf.

Your program didn't become relevant until Marshall left.
Montana was a middle of the pack Big Sky team until Nevada, Idaho and Boise left.

To both schools credit, they stepped up and became dominant powers. To think that no school would/could step up to fill App and MT's shoes is assinine.

Montana's rise started while they were in the conference but on the way out. It actually started with each of those teams having about 5 yrs. left in the conference battling it out between them.

Apphole and some of the younger App guys grew up in a culture of sports that the show matters more than the product you can build with the resources that fit your school. If they want to be the next American Idol contestant then good for them. I'll stick with something of substance.

Hell that kind of unearned arrogance is hard to find in a lot of UNCC fans...well some of them anyway.:D

[ursus arctos horribilis]

+1

FCS is great, but you've got to drink some serious koolaid to deny the national perception.

There it is again. Perception.

[TheRevSFA]

The important thing is that it's been even higher since we stopped winning NC's. We are poised to set yet another record when UM comes to town, yet no App player has a ring that says 2011 on it...

That's not what I asked, but I'll prove my point. I'm willing to bet that App wasn't filling KBS before that championship run. Correct?

You guys built up the attendance, and became a power house. Someone else will do that after you leave.

[Apphole]

Montana's rise started while they were in the conference but on the way out. It actually started with each of those teams having about 5 yrs. left in the conference battling it out between them.

Apphole and some of the younger App guys grew up in a culture of sports that the show matters more than the product you can build with the resources that fit your school. If they want to be the next American Idol contestant then good for them. I'll stick with something of substance.

Hell that kind of unearned arrogance is hard to find in a lot of UNCC fans...well some of them anyway.:D

We moved to national relevance by winning and drawing multitudes, not by being 30 minutes from the biggest city in NC.

Anyway, it looks like a lot of you are oging out of your way to miss my point. The FCS is great. We have done well playing here. I was talking about national TV ratings. If certain programs that draw the majority of the national interest for the subdivision leave, then the national interest will demising. Simple if/then statement (yeah I've been studying for the LSAT for way too long) I'm not saying it's bush league, not REAL football, JV or BELOW my alma mater like every UNCC fan on here, I'm just speaking factually about national interest.

[WH49er]

Apphole's obsession with us continues. Whether its on AGS or over on the App boards you can't stop talking about Charlotte.

[Apphole]

That's not what I asked, but I'll prove my point. I'm willing to bet that App wasn't filling KBS before that championship run. Correct?

You guys built up the attendance, and became a power house. Someone else will do that after you leave.

Touche. But how many current FCS schools have enrollments big enough to even be capable of drawing that many fans? Not saying its impossible, but if the current national interest of the FCS leaves, there will at least be a short period in which national interest declines.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I wish some of you wouldn't get so butt-hurt about TV ratings. I love the FCS, but it doesn't hold much TV interest outside of a few schools. When these schools are gone, only a team that is successful AND has a large fan base, will draw viewers on the idiot box. Wofford is constantly at the top of the SoCon, but their fan base is quite small. When App and GaSo leave, they will likely be the top program in the conference (along with Furman) and be a perennial top-10 team in the nation. Does this mean more people are likely to tune in to their games during the playoffs? Of course not because they have a relatively small fan base.

I'm not saying the quality of football will plummet when the bid time FCS schools leave, but nation interest will.

And misspelling asinine is asinine

In another five to ten years most or all of these games will be available on web channels and that is all I care about is that a fan of that team can see it if they want. It's nice to see an underdog get comparable ratings to the ones with an advantage but it doesn't really matter.

[Apphole]

Apphole's obsession with us continues. Whether its on AGS or over on the App boards you can't stop talking about Charlotte.


Way to raise your nose at the FCS. Are you sure you didn't go to UNC-Cee?

He thought I was being arrogant. That's how you folks came up.

[TheRevSFA]

He thought I was being arrogant. That's how you folks came up.

Yeah WH I started this one today.

[Tuscon]

We moved to national relevance by winning and drawing multitudes, not by being 30 minutes from the biggest city in NC.

Why do you think it's not a combination of both? My point with the markets has always been about potential, not just coming out and being on top because you live in a populated area. If you are winning and located in a larger market, you have a much larger pool of potential fans right at your doorstep to jump on when you start winning. You can change your program around and focus on winning, but you can't up and move your campus.

[Apphole]

Yeah WH I started this one today.

Not your fault bud. Cee fans and arrogance go together like peas and carrots. It's the fact that they have less reason to be than most schools that brings to light serious psycho-social disorders rampant among their fan base.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

We moved to national relevance by winning and drawing multitudes, not by being 30 minutes from the biggest city in NC.

Anyway, it looks like a lot of you are oging out of your way to miss my point. The FCS is great. We have done well playing here. I was talking about national TV ratings. If certain programs that draw the majority of the national interest for the subdivision leave, then the national interest will demising. Simple if/then statement (yeah I've been studying for the LSAT for way too long) I'm not saying it's bush league, not REAL football, JV or BELOW my alma mater like every UNCC fan on here, I'm just speaking factually about national interest.

That point was not real clear, I get what you are saying now. I don't think you are getting that it won't be a big impact as this division has always replaced those that left and even those with a big impact on the national scene as well as conference. In fact it is probably better now than it was then.

[Apphole]

Why do you think it's not a combination of both? My point with the markets has always been about potential, not just coming out and being on top because you live in a populated area. If you are winning and located in a larger market, you have a much larger pool of potential fans right at your doorstep to jump on when you start winning. You can change your program around and focus on winning, but you can't up and move your campus.

Indeed it can be both. I was just talking about App's rise to power. The only prerequisite is winning. Market is a big advantage, especially with regard to conference invites, but it doesn't matter if you have the #1 market in America if you suck. Market size is a current trend among the big time BCSers that the little guys (SBC,CUSA) are desperately trying to mimic.

[cbarrier90]

I take a lunch break and THIS is what happens to the thread...xlolx

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Touche. But how many current FCS schools have enrollments big enough to even be capable of drawing that many fans? Not saying its impossible, but if the current national interest of the FCS leaves, there will at least be a short period in which national interest declines.

Holio, this division does not survive on national interest and even when there is some it does not stick around in great numbers. It won't matter. As you said though it may have a small impact in the short term but very short.

One thing that a team will give up is though that offsets is the real and tactile interest that a lot of us out here in this division do have for App or whoever else. I guarantee you I won't be looking for App stats or games on the net or anything else after the first year.

The school will be trading a national yet small family for a bigger family that cares only about your big brothers.

[Tuscon]

Indeed it can be both. I was just talking about App's rise to power. The only prerequisite is winning. Market is a big advantage, especially with regard to conference invites, but it doesn't matter if you have the #1 market in America if you suck. Market size is a current trend among the big time BCSers that the little guys (SBC,CUSA) are desperately trying to mimic.

I think they are trying to mimic it because that's one less hurdle you have to jump. I agree that you have to win to garner attention(especially in GSU's case with Atlanta's history). The size of our school has also proven to be advantageous in getting money to fund our entire Athletics department. In part, that comes from our location as well.

The big market thing makes all of that kind of stuff less worrisome. You can focus on winning.

[Apphole]

Holio, this division does not survive on national interest and even when there is some it does not stick around in great numbers. It won't matter. As you said though it may have a small impact in the short term but very short..

I never said the FCS would collapse when the top programs left. For the 100th time, I was saying that national interest in the FCS would decline. That is the only point I have made. If that's not important to you, then more power to you.

[TheRevSFA]

I never said the FCS would collapse when the top programs left. For the 100th time, I was saying that national interest in the FCS would decline. That is the only point I have made. If that's not important to you, then more power to you.

What's funny about App moving up is that they'd go from a powerhouse to middle of the road, if not near cellar dwelling FBS team..for a while.

...and then maybe once they made a bowl or two, people might pick them on NCAA 15 that aren't alumni.

(I'm not saying this to be mean..but to prove a point..you would be going from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in the Atlantic Ocean)

[TheRevSFA]

A lot of fans of schools that are moving to FBS (UTSA, Texas State-San Marcos, Ga State..etc) seem to think that by moving to FBS, they automiatically will get national recognition. It doesn't happen that way.

Have you seen any national recognition for Troy, FAU, FIU, UL-Monroe, or Idaho in recent years? No.

[Sam_Kats]

FIU had that one moment with Miami....or was it FAU?? Ah, I see your point, Rev.

[dbackjon]

Touche. But how many current FCS schools have enrollments big enough to even be capable of drawing that many fans? Not saying its impossible, but if the current national interest of the FCS leaves, there will at least be a short period in which national interest declines.

FCS will never be a big national interest - no matter who is there. Just part of the game.

But neither is the Sunbelt. ASU's win over Michigan got more national coverage than three seasons of Sunbelt football.

There are the Dakota schools, some in Texas, Davis, Poly, etc. Who knows, maybe even schools like EWU can increase attendence

[bluehenbillk]

I never said the FCS would collapse when the top programs left. For the 100th time, I was saying that national interest in the FCS would decline. That is the only point I have made. If that's not important to you, then more power to you.

I disagree with that. Marshall left and Youngstown St faded back to mediocrity and national interest in FCS stayed it's same meager self. You could move any one, or heck the top 10 programs of FCS up into FBS & national FCS interest would be right about the same.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

What's funny about App moving up is that they'd go from a powerhouse to middle of the road, if not near cellar dwelling FBS team..for a while.

...and then maybe once they made a bowl or two, people might pick them on NCAA 15 that aren't alumni.

(I'm not saying this to be mean..but to prove a point..you would be going from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in the Atlantic Ocean)

FCS teams moving up usually do fairly well in the first couple years. They carry an over achiever attitude and the guys on the roster when they move bolstered by the additional scholly's can compete real well with the mid to upper end of the conference they are moving to because those conferences are not real strong.

When the newness wears off after about five years they tank and usually stick around the mid pack area of the lower conferences. They have roughly the same fan interest as they had when they were the big fish in this pond. Of course you are still footing the extra bill for the move even when things settle back down and the excitement dies off to it's natural state.

[Apphole]

You could move any one, or heck the top 10 programs of FCS up into FBS & national FCS interest would be right about the same.

That may be true, but it's only because national interest in the FCS isn't actually national interest in the FCS at all, but rather national interest in specific FCS schools.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I never said the FCS would collapse when the top programs left. For the 100th time, I was saying that national interest in the FCS would decline. That is the only point I have made. If that's not important to you, then more power to you.

And you must have missed that I said it won't matter if something that small dies off. It is not big. From a Montana perspective it's fans of this program and I assume it's mostly that from an App perspective as well. Some fans will go away if Montana were to move to something else and become mediocre or not have that goal of being able to prove your worth in a playoff. There would be some new interest from different fans that think it's a good thing to be eligible for a bowl. I think it's a wash at best.

[Apphole]

And you must have missed that I said it won't matter if something that small dies off. It is not big. From a Montana perspective it's fans of this program and I assume it's mostly that from an App perspective as well. Some fans will go away if Montana were to move to something else and become mediocre or not have that goal of being able to prove your worth in a playoff. There would be some new interest from different fans that think it's a good thing to be eligible for a bowl. I think it's a wash at best.

I think all the old timer App fans have already made peace with the fact that we will be moving up. I don't see many of them abandoning the program out of some misplaced hatred of the bowl system. Fans will leave if/when we start losing too much, but that is the case in every division.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That may be true, but it's only because national interest in the FCS isn't actually national interest in the FCS at all, but rather national interest in specific FCS schools.

It's true because what is being confused with national interest is really just local interest but with several other small communities around the country taking it in because of their local interest. That will not change much at all.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think all the old timer App fans have already made peace with the fact that we will be moving up. I don't see many of them abandoning the program out of some misplaced hatred of the bowl system. Fans will leave if/when we start losing too much, but that is the case in every division.
True, I am saying some will have a foot out the door quicker than usual. I've said for many years now that the quick upturn in attendance is the weakest part in a program to bank on. It's the first thing to go if they are not appeased. App had a strong core of 15K before so even though they may be the old guys they are gonna stay I would assume...even if some of the new guys came in and f'd up their ride.

[Apphole]

True, I am saying some will have a foot out the door quicker than usual. I've said for many years now that the quick upturn in attendance is the weakest part in a program to bank on. It's the first thing to go if they are not appeased. App had a strong core of 15K before so even though they may be the old guys they are gonna stay I would assume...even if some of the new guys came in and f'd up their ride.

At this point in the hype, I'm pretty confident that we would lose more fans if we somehow stayed FCS (not going to happen just a hypothetical) than if we moved up and became mediocre like Marshal.

The 2005-2007 years certainly gave us a large group of bandwagons, but it also bread a countless group of DIE HARDS. I was a freshman in 2007 and from my class alone I'm sure there are at least 2-3k die hard App crazies that you could add to that # the strong core. We have now established a famously amazing gameday experience. I don't see us dipping too far below our current numbers regardless of what happens.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Here is the deal.

All FCS conferences are regional interest. All non-BCS FBS conferences are regional interest, too, including the WAC, Sun Belt and MAC. C-USCluster***** is national, but nobody cares.

FCS and Sun Belt games are now mostly online-only affairs and regional TV, and that's where it's going to stay.

FCS and Sun Belt schools usually get one or, at maximum, two shots at the big boys at their place.

Is there anything wrong with regional interest conferences? Absolutely not. Unless you're going to a regional interest conference in an effort to make gobs of cash or get "exposure".

Gobs of cash are simply not there in the Sun Belt - no matter what salesperson is telling you otherwise - nor is the "exposure", of which you can argue that FCS teams that excel in the playoffs get "exposure" simply because they play more postseason games (on ESPN, at that) on their way to a championship.

Case in point? The Sun Belt does not have a better TV deal than the CAA.

[TheRevSFA]

At this point in the hype, I'm pretty confident that we would lose more fans if we somehow stayed FCS (not going to happen just a hypothetical) than if we moved up and became mediocre like Marshal.

The 2005-2007 years certainly gave us a large group of bandwagons, but it also bread a countless group of DIE HARDS. I was a freshman in 2007 and from my class alone I'm sure there are at least 2-3k die hard App crazies that you could add to that # the strong core. We have now established a famously amazing gameday experience. I don't see us dipping too far below our current numbers regardless of what happens.

I won't lie..I like App State. When I was in high school, I wanted to get out of Texas and as far away as I could and I looked at App State. I didn't make the trip to Boone though..I wish I had so I could see the campus.

..but like I said..you move to Sun Belt..the first year they'll go "App State, playing their first year of Sun Belt football. You remember them, they upset Michigan back in 2007" and then after that...back to national obscurity except for being a trivia answer.

[Apphole]

I won't lie..I like App State. When I was in high school, I wanted to get out of Texas and as far away as I could and I looked at App State. I didn't make the trip to Boone though..I wish I had so I could see the campus.

..but like I said..you move to Sun Belt..the first year they'll go "App State, playing their first year of Sun Belt football. You remember them, they upset Michigan back in 2007" and then after that...back to national obscurity except for being a trivia answer.

One thing that most fail to consider and that is very important to our fans, is playing FBS rivals at home. ECU, Wake, Marshal and eventually State and UNC at home would be awesome. I don't care if we are any more or less obscure, I just want opportunities like this as well as a higher ceiling.

[Tuscon]

One thing that most fail to consider and that is very important to our fans, is playing FBS rivals at home. ECU, Wake, Marshal and eventually State and UNC at home would be awesome. I don't care if we are any more or less obscure, I just want opportunities like this as well as a higher ceiling.

One thing, will they play you? You hear a lot about in state bigger programs not wanting to schedule the younger programs for whatever reason. Everyone keeps saying Georgia and Georgia Tech won't ever want to play us. I'm not sure about all of it to tell you the truth.

[Apphole]

One thing, will they play you? You hear a lot about in state bigger programs not wanting to schedule the younger programs for whatever reason. Everyone keeps saying Georgia and Georgia Tech won't ever want to play us. I'm not sure about all of it to tell you the truth.

If they don't, and please don't take offense, its because all you've done is play god-awful football so far. Start-ups are a different animal than pure FCS move ups. We play ECU this season for the second time in 3 years.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

One thing, will they play you? You hear a lot about in state bigger programs not wanting to schedule the younger programs for whatever reason. Everyone keeps saying Georgia and Georgia Tech won't ever want to play us. I'm not sure about all of it to tell you the truth.

I think ECU & Marshall probably will be somewhat welcoming to them. Not so sure about the others.

[Tuscon]

If they don't, and please don't take offense, its because all you've done is play god-awful football so far. Start-ups are a different animal than pure FCS move ups. We play ECU this season for the second time in 3 years.

Take a look at the state of Alabama. Auburn and Alabama don't want anything to do with UAB or Troy and they're not startups. It has nothing to do with god-awful football. They'd probably want to play us less if it looked like we could win.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

At this point in the hype, I'm pretty confident that we would lose more fans if we somehow stayed FCS (not going to happen just a hypothetical) than if we moved up and became mediocre like Marshal.

The 2005-2007 years certainly gave us a large group of bandwagons, but it also bread a countless group of DIE HARDS. I was a freshman in 2007 and from my class alone I'm sure there are at least 2-3k die hard App crazies that you could add to that # the strong core. We have now established a famously amazing gameday experience. I don't see us dipping too far below our current numbers regardless of what happens.

I got nothing against bandwaggoners unless they want to act like they've been part of it all from the beginning. That's another issue so I'll leave that alone for now.

I also don't think App will dip too far below what they currently have as far as fans go, at least for a while. It is already in place afterall.

[TheRevSFA]

Take a look at the state of Alabama. Auburn and Alabama don't want anything to do with UAB or Troy and they're not startups. It has nothing to do with god-awful football. They'd probably want to play us less if it looked like we could win.

Arkansas refuses to play the other in state football schools (UCA, stAte)...However, Texas A&M plays the FCS schools in state (as does Baylor, Tech, SMU, etc).

Didn't Bama destroy you guys in 2010? I'm sure you'll get another trip to Tuscaloosa once you move up :)

[Tuscon]

Arkansas refuses to play the other in state football schools (UCA, stAte)...However, Texas A&M plays the FCS schools in state (as does Baylor, Tech, SMU, etc).

Didn't Bama destroy you guys in 2010? I'm sure you'll get another trip to Tuscaloosa once you move up :)
Kind of why I was asking. It seems different everywhere you go. I see ECU scheduling them, but they have a different mindset than most.

That was us. It'd be nice because they'd double our pay day and it's close enough not to fly.

[TheRevSFA]

Kind of why I was asking. It seems different everywhere you go. I see ECU scheduling them, but they have a different mindset than most.

That was us. It'd be nice because they'd double our pay day and it's close enough not to fly.

It's weird...the big Texas schools love playing in-state (or Louisiana) FCS schools. Sam is playing both A&M and Baylor next year.

[dgtw]

Alabama has a policy of not playing in state schools other than Auburn in football and basketball. I don't blame them. If you win, it is because you are supposed to. If you lose, you'll never hear the end of it.

[Tuscon]

Alabama has a policy of not playing in state schools other than Auburn in football and basketball. I don't blame them. If you win, it is because you are supposed to. If you lose, you'll never hear the end of it.

But that's true of anyone not in the Big 6(And most of them) vs. Alabama. Why the exception for the other Alabama schools. So I hear, UA also controls the Board of Regents and actively works to the detriment of UAB.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Take a look at the state of Alabama. Auburn and Alabama don't want anything to do with UAB or Troy and they're not startups. It has nothing to do with god-awful football. They'd probably want to play us less if it looked like we could win.


But that's true of anyone not in the Big 6(And most of them) vs. Alabama. Why the exception for the other Alabama schools. So I hear, UA also controls the Board of Regents and actively works to the detriment of UAB.

Keep these arguments against Sun Belt football coming... why would one think that this would be any different with UGA and the state of Georgia?

[Tuscon]

Keep these arguments against Sun Belt football coming... why would one think that this would be any different with UGA and the state of Georgia?

Because as previously mentioned, it's different in Texas and North Carolina? It's still not an argument against Sun Belt. Other BCS teams will still play us for double what you are getting paid in the FCS regardless if in-state FBS programs won't. You, sir, are grasping at straws.

[Apphole]

Apphole's obsession with us continues. Whether its on AGS or over on the App boards you can't stop talking about Charlotte.

Wait, you've been reading App boards? Who's obsessed with whom?

[Tribe4SF]

It's weird...the big Texas schools love playing in-state (or Louisiana) FCS schools. Sam is playing both A&M and Baylor next year.

Same in Virginia. Va Tech and UVA routinely play W&M, JMU and Richmond even though W&M and JMU have won those games recently.

[dgtw]

But that's true of anyone not in the Big 6(And most of them) vs. Alabama. Why the exception for the other Alabama schools.

Don't really know. They don't play in state FCS schools, either. Auburn played UAB back when UAB first startd football but hasn't since. They used to play in basketball every year, but haven't in a long time.

Auburn played Samford last year, though that may have been as a favor to Pat Sullivan. But they are playing Alabama A&M this year and Jax State in 2013.

The media keeps trying to pressure Bama into playing an FCS team every year, but to no avail. I agree it is a little petty, but that's the way it is.


So I hear, UA also controls the Board of Regents and actively works to the detriment of UAB.

UAB has been wanting its own stadium on campus for years instead of Legion Field. They had a proposal last year but the Board of Trustees turned it down. UAB fans say there is a conspiracy by the Board to destroy UAB's football program. One of the Trustees is Paul Bryant, Jr.

I do think the board favors the mother campus over the Extension Center, but not to the point some UAB people want to think.

UAB's football program does not have a lot of public support. Their attendance is helped by the 5,000 season tickets the city of Birmingham buys every year.

Question for you......Has Bill Curry ever talked much about his days in Tuscaloosa?

[Tuscon]

Don't really know. They don't play in state FCS schools, either. Auburn played UAB back when UAB first startd football but hasn't since. They used to play in basketball every year, but haven't in a long time.

Auburn played Samford last year, though that may have been as a favor to Pat Sullivan. But they are playing Alabama A&M this year and Jax State in 2013.

The media keeps trying to pressure Bama into playing an FCS team every year, but to no avail. I agree it is a little petty, but that's the way it is.



UAB has been wanting its own stadium on campus for years instead of Legion Field. They had a proposal last year but the Board of Trustees turned it down. UAB fans say there is a conspiracy by the Board to destroy UAB's football program. One of the Trustees is Paul Bryant, Jr.

I do think the board favors the mother campus over the Extension Center, but not to the point some UAB people want to think.

UAB's football program does not have a lot of public support. Their attendance is helped by the 5,000 season tickets the city of Birmingham buys every year.

Question for you......Has Bill Curry ever talked much about his days in Tuscaloosa?

Haha... turned it down? They cancelled the meeting. Alabama's got some weird stuff going on. That's for sure. I'm not sure how much CBC talks about Tuscaloosa. I know he talks about the past a lot(and catches a lot of grief for it). But I think I've only specifically heard him talk about how much football means to them down there.

[dgtw]

I'd rather my tax money go to things other than a football stadium they'll never fill up once the newness wears off.