AGS Top 25 Week 12 Poll Results

[AGSPoll]

AGS Top 25 For November 20, 2011


1 Sam Houston State Bearkats 1846 53
2 Georgia Southern Eagles 1703 10
3 North Dakota State Bison 1699 5
4 Northern Iowa Panthers 1688 3
5 Montana Grizzlies 1593 2
6 Towson Tigers 1504 2
7 Lehigh Mountain Hawks 1416 1
8 Montana State Bobcats 1389
9 Appalachian State Mountaineers 1255
10 Old Dominion Monarchs 1198
11 New Hampshire Wildcats 1176
12 Wofford Terriers 1131
13 Maine Black Bears 970
14 Central Arkansas Bears 813
15 Harvard Crimson 746
16 James Madison Dukes 707
17 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens 637
18 Illinois State Redbirds 612
19 Norfolk State Spartans 506
20 Stony Brook Seawolves 387
21 Tennessee Tech Golden Eagles 295
22 Liberty Flames 208
23 Furman Paladins 191
24 Jackson State Tigers 152
25 Albany Great Danes 141

Most Significant Win: Montana Grizzlies

Most Significant Loss: Montana State Bobcats


26 Indiana State Sycamores 119
27 North Dakota Fighting Sioux 96
28 Youngstown State Penguins 68
29 Jacksonville State Gamecocks 67
30 Eastern Kentucky Colonels 60
31 Georgetown Hoyas 46
32T Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 44
32T Duquesne Dukes 44
32T Portland State Vikings 44
35 Chattanooga Mocs 33
36 South Dakota Coyotes 20
37 Eastern Washington Eagles 15
38T Cal Poly Mustangs 14
38T Samford Bulldogs 14
40 Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 12

[Ivytalk]

76 voters. Not bad considering the quick turnaround time.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

76 voters. Not bad considering the quick turnaround time.

Yeah I thought the same thing. Pretty good effort for a 12 hr. turnaround so good job to all you guys/gals that put forth a real solid effort.

[nmatsen]

This poll is a joke, NDSU jumps UNI after being behind them last week. NDSU beats a TERRIBLE WIU team while we go on the road and beat a top 20 team.

Georgia Southern moves up in the poll after a 21 point loss (NO GOOD LOSSES, EVER), and we went ON THE ROAD to a TOP 20 SCHOOL AND WON!!!!!!!!

Freaking ridiculous, I am not saying we are the 2nd best team in the country, but we should be ranked there based on what the rankings said last week and what happend yesterday.

[Squealofthepig]

Let me succinctly note:

18) Illinois State Redbirds
30) Eastern Kentucky Colonels

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This poll is a joke, NDSU jumps UNI after being behind them last week. NDSU beats a TERRIBLE WIU team while we go on the road and beat a top 20 team.

Georgia Southern moves up in the poll after a 21 point loss (NO GOOD LOSSES, EVER), and we went ON THE ROAD to a TOP 20 SCHOOL AND WON!!!!!!!!

Freaking ridiculous, I am not saying we are the 2nd best team in the country, but we should be ranked there based on what the rankings said last week and what happend yesterday.

Not necessarily and this happens all the time where a fella like yourself that doesn't vote comes in and berates the people that do. They all have different ways of doing things...the way you look at it is one of them I am sure.

Some people don't just shuffle as you are suggesting they do. They look things over fresh each week and get a new perspective as to how the season's resume looks. That seems like the correct way to do it to me.

I think you would agree that NDSU's resume is better than UNI"s right? The season is over so basing things on one game doesn't seem like the well thought out approach to me.

[nmatsen]

Not necessarily and this happens all the time where a fella like yourself that doesn't vote comes in and berates the people that do. They all have different ways of doing things...the way you look at it is one of them I am sure.

Some people don't just shuffle as you are suggesting they do. They look things over fresh each week and get a new perspective as to how the season's resume looks. That seems like the correct way to do it to me.

I think you would agree that NDSU's resume is better than UNI"s right? The season is over so basing things on one game doesn't seem like the well thought out approach to me.

It doesn't matter, even with that line of thought if they looked at UNI last week and said "their resume is better than everyone's except MSU, GSU, and SHSU, what happend yesterday to change their minds?

Also, please don't criticize me for not voting, I choose not to because honestly I wouldn't be able to do so objectively, I am a homer and can admit it, I am just saying our "resume" is better than GSU's and to the voters last week was apparently better than NDSU's.

Keep in mind, I do believe we have a better resume than NDSU. Let me explain:

NDSU's job application looks great, the first 9 pages of the app, they are the better applicant than UNI, NDSU's is great, UNI's is pretty good, when you get to page 10 there is that dreaded box that says "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" "if yes, please explain below."

NDSU's box is checked, the explanation, "couldn't stay focused and lost to a non-playoff team AT HOME."
UNI's box is not checked, in any employment opportunity in the world UNI would get that job, end of story.

END RANT, thanks for listening.

[Engineer86]

I saw comments that MSU possibly going to SHSU in the quarters as being harsh, but as they are ranked 8th, that is exactly where voters think they should be.

Geography made for the toughest matchup according to pollsters with #6 Towson playing #7 Lehigh in the round of 16. With all of the considerations you can see the impact of a few. Ranking only would put Appy and MSU are paired to possibly play SHSU in quarters

[NDB]

It doesn't matter, even with that line of thought if they looked at UNI last week and said "their resume is better than everyone's except MSU, GSU, and SHSU, what happend yesterday to change their minds?

Also, please don't criticize me for not voting, I choose not to because honestly I wouldn't be able to do so objectively, I am a homer and can admit it, I am just saying our "resume" is better than GSU's and to the voters last week was apparently better than NDSU's.

Keep in mind, I do believe we have a better resume than NDSU. Let me explain:

NDSU's job application looks great, the first 9 pages of the app, they are the better applicant than UNI, NDSU's is great, UNI's is pretty good, when you get to page 10 there is that dreaded box that says "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" "if yes, please explain below."

NDSU's box is checked, the explanation, "couldn't stay focused and lost to a non-playoff team AT HOME."
UNI's box is not checked, in any employment opportunity in the world UNI would get that job, end of story.

END RANT, thanks for listening.

UNI had a chance to make its case a few weeks ago in Fargo. It failed.

[FargoBison]

Keep in mind, I do believe we have a better resume than NDSU. Let me explain:

NDSU's job application looks great, the first 9 pages of the app, they are the better applicant than UNI, NDSU's is great, UNI's is pretty good, when you get to page 10 there is that dreaded box that says "have you ever been convicted of a felony?" "if yes, please explain below."

NDSU's box is checked, the explanation, "couldn't stay focused and lost to a non-playoff team AT HOME."
UNI's box is not checked, in any employment opportunity in the world UNI would get that job, end of story.

END RANT, thanks for listening.

I'm glad you don't vote with logic like that...... Losing to YSU is far from some horrible loss but I'm not surprised a UNI fan would paint it that way. UNI's problem is that their best win is vs ISUr. NDSU beat UNI, ISUr and MN, those are some impressive wins.

[darell1976]

I was hoping UND would be ranked but overall I liked where we finished.

[NDB]

I think they should have been ranked as well (for the time this season).

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Also, please don't criticize me for not voting, I choose not to because honestly I wouldn't be able to do so objectively, I am a homer and can admit it, I am just saying our "resume" is better than GSU's and to the voters last week was apparently better than NDSU's.

Keep in mind, I do believe we have a better resume than NDSU. Let me explain:


Sorry if that read as a criticism, it was not meant that way. What I mean is that the voters DO spend a good deal of time sorting through a lot of information, and I've seen a lot of them that try and refine the way think about their vote in an objective fashion and do it better week in and week out...hone THEIR philosophy on the process and so forth.

I'm trying to get across that sometimes people come on that do not have that experience of trying to work through all the ways of doing it and criticize that effort when they may not see the why's and how's because it is their team that they are attached to...slightly biased view...and would have a different take on it by going through and following their own paradigm in the process. It makes it harder to look at your ballot one week for your team when you didn't give credit to another in the same situation a week or two ago.

Hell, I don't even know if that explanation clears it up.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I'm glad you don't vote with logic like that...... Losing to YSU is far from some horrible loss but I'm not surprised a UNI fan would paint it that way. UNI's problem is that their best win is vs ISUr. NDSU beat UNI, ISUr and MN, those are some impressive wins.

That is the resume I was talking aobut. it's unquestionably better.

[nmatsen]

Thanks for the apology.

NDSU fans, I know we had our opportunity in Fargo, you took it down. I know your wins are more impressive, I gave you credit for that by saying your resume is better than ours. You had a home loss to a non playoff team, late in the year. It was late in the year, that is an un-fortunate truth that usually hurts a team. I not one time said YSU is a bad loss. I count them as a good win for us (IMHO any team with a winning record is a good win) I said they are a non-playoff team. That is a fact, is it not? I didn't make anything up there, or paint any picture.

[FargoBison]

You compared it to having a felony on a job resume, that just might be a bit over dramatic....Honestly I don't know how much a team should be punished for losing ONE game when they have played a tough schedule and have three very good wins. It did hurt, it cost us a #1 seed but in the grand scheme of things our body of work is still very impressive. I don't think one loss should nullify a head to head win, you need multiple losses to get into that territory.

[MTfan4life]

You compared it to having a felony on a job resume, that just might be a bit over dramatic....Honestly I don't know how much a team should be punished for losing ONE game when they have played a tough schedule and have three very good wins. It did hurt, it cost us a #1 seed but in the the grand scheme of things our body of work is still very impressive. I don't think one loss should nullify a head to head win, you need multiple losses to get into that territory.

Full resume. Everyone is moaning and complaining about the Bison's one loss and how they should be ranked ahead of them because their loss was better. It's about specific wins too, not just about that one loss.

[Engineer86]

This is the FCS level right? And the playoffs are here right? So this matters how? Just win baby!

[Hammersmith]

My view...

NDSU has three positives vs. UNI: 10 DI wins vs. 9, a BCS win(however bad MN may be), and the head to head win by more than one score(arguably - it was 8pts).
NDSU has one negative vs. UNI: A close(3pt) loss to a solid, but unranked team.

That makes it 3-1 in NDSU's favor. Even if you give extra weight to the YSU loss, that's still 3-2 in NDSU's favor.


I don't mind pollsters giving extra weight to the most recent week's games in most cases, but you really shouldn't do that for the final regular season poll of the year. That poll needs to look at the entire season. NDSU got penalized last week for the YSU loss, as we should have been, but when you look at the entire season, I see NDSU on top of UNI by a small amount. Most of the voters seemed to view it the same way.

[Squealofthepig]

Full resume.

This. While I had UNI/NDSU as 2/3 in my poll, it was a coin-flip for me (and ultimately I put UNI ahead more based one their one point loss at Iowa State). I could easily argue to have the Bison ahead, though, as a quick look at both schedules has NDSU winning by about 18 points, while UNI's average margin of victory was a full touchdown less.

Thinking about rankings in terms of slots quickly leads to absolute chaos, as you will quickly find team A beats team B which beats team C which beats team A... so how do you rank them? The short answer is you see how the teams did against teams D, E, F, etc. That is, head-to-head is only so useful; clean-cut transitive properties do not exist in football.

[FargoBison]

Interesting that Montana State loses to a top 10 team and drops from #1 to #8, yet when NDSU lost to an UNRANKED team at home, it only dropped from #1 to #5.

It could very well be because of the differences in the margin of loss, pointwise

interesting indeed

Or it could be the fact that Montana State doesn't have a win vs a ranked team.....

[UNIFanSince1983]

Interesting that Montana State loses to a top 10 team and drops from #1 to #8, yet when NDSU lost to an UNRANKED team at home, it only dropped from #1 to #5.

It could very well be because of the differences in the margin of loss, pointwise

interesting indeed

It is all about margin.

It is also interesting that MSU is 4 spots behind UNI with a very similar resume. The have 2 losses one to an FBS team and one to a top 5 team. I guess their margin of defeat, and the fact that the lost in the last week of the season is hurting them. Not to mention I think people are not respecting the Big Sky.

[paward]

I was one of the three that voted UNI #1. I went back and forth with GA Southern, Sam Houston and UNI. Although I wanted to voter GSU #1, I just could not reward the lost. It was a great effort but a lost (wish that game had been a week or two earlier). Sam Houston did not get the nod over UNI because of strength of schedule and I could not give them that kind of jump in my poll. I have never jumped more than five spots my limit is four at best.

Where you are in this poll is not that important. Where you land in a few weeks is. Good Luck UNI, I hope you prove me right but right now there is a team out that that is not in my top 25 that could land in the #1 spot. It is a hard job but I love the challenge each week.

[MTfan4life]

yet it was ranked #1 in the polls right before the last weekend of games

Last week they had no FCS losses and were undefeated in an annually competitive Big Sky. They dropped because they had more teams below them that deserved to be equal to them. NDSU was ranked number one almost unanimously. Montana State was almost even with Sam Houston.

[SDFS]

22 Liberty Flames 208 - if you wonder why people think this is a rube pole this is the perfect example - what have they done this year?

Wins:
2-8 Robert Morris
1-9 KY Wesleyan
4-6 Gardner Webb
6-4 Coastal Car
0-10 Charleston So
3-7 Presbyterian
1-9 VMI

[PantherRob82]

22 Liberty Flames 208 - if you wonder why people think this is a rube pole this is the perfect example - what have they done this year?

Wins:
2-8 Robert Morris
1-9 KY Wesleyan
4-6 Gardner Webb
6-4 Coastal Car
1-10 Charleston So
3-7 Presbyterian
1-9 VMI

This is what you get when voters slide teams up and down instead of thinking.

[Grizzlies82]

It is all about margin.

It is also interesting that MSU is 4 spots behind UNI with a very similar resume. The have 2 losses one to an FBS team and one to a top 5 team. I guess their margin of defeat, and the fact that the lost in the last week of the season is hurting them. Not to mention I think people are not respecting the Big Sky.

The "margin" and timing certainly hurt, and the conference didn't help. Though ultimately the committee tends to reward finishing strong. I think both the Bobcats and Panthers saw some of that in the seeding.

However, on the plus side... Montana State has two weeks to regroup. They get a home game. They have a known opponent (UNH) to prepare for. If they win, they can go make a statement in Huntsville, TX (SHSU).

Once the playoffs begin every team has talent, and the only way you advance is proving it on the field. Each team has an opportunity. The Bobcats have a very good team. We will see how they use their opportunities to prove it.

[HensRock]

This is what you get when voters slide teams up and down instead of thinking.

AMEN!

[FCSbuff319]

22 Liberty Flames 208 - if you wonder why people think this is a rube pole this is the perfect example - what have they done this year?

Wins:
2-8 Robert Morris
1-9 KY Wesleyan
4-6 Gardner Webb
6-4 Coastal Car
0-10 Charleston So
3-7 Presbyterian
1-9 VMI

Two overtimes to beat Presby. Six point win over VMI. Both games at home. We need more thinkers on this poll. Too many of the stereotypical, "well they lost so they deserve to drop just as many spots as my team did." Like Rob said, sliding up and down is a major problem in most polls. Too many people basing their judgment off other polls too like what likely was done with Liberty.

[OhioHen]

AGS Top 25 For November 20, 2011


1 Sam Houston State Bearkats

The poll overall has finally caught up with where I have placed the Bearkats since week 4.

[Bearkat-Backer]

The poll overall has finally caught up with where I have placed the Bearkats since week 4.

I was wondering where that one vote was coming from all these weeks.