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  1. #31
    FCS Master catbob's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer View Post
    Absolute rubbish. The reason for the current situation is the Dayton Flyers! Last season, we finished ranked in the top 25 in some FCS polls and were rumored to be in the playoff discussions, ( although I seriously doubt that rumor ). We defeated the PL champion, on their home field. Is there anyone who can clearly demonstrate that our program is not a legitimate, FCS program? Ask Fordham or Albany if we were a legitimate FCS team. Yeah, that Albany that prides itself in playing so many "real" FCS teams.... 2007 is also not the first time the Flyers have been ranked in FCS at the end of the season. We also did it in 1996 and 1997!

    This is just more FBS wannabee talk. If you do not wish to be part of a diverse division, man up and provide 85 full athletic scholarships, get 15K fans to each home game and join your fantasy world of FBS. Pretty simple if you ask me, otherwise, quit your moaning! This division would be worlds better if all of the FBS wannabees and pretenders, ( and you know who you are ), would get off the pot and move to FBS.
    Sure non-scholly teams can field a good, maybe even great team now and again. But there is a reason San Diego didn't make the playoffs, and they had arguably one of the bet non-scholly teams in the last several years. The fact is, if you put a non-scholly team into one of the power conferences, things are going to change. I mean the Bobcats beat CU a few years ago, I'm not naive enough to think we would be a decent team in the Big XII.

    Face it, non-scholly teams are always looking to prove themselves, which makes them dangerous when they play a big time FCS opponent. Same thing when FCS teams play FBS teams.

    I don't see whats wrong with not wanting a division of football that runs the gambit from the full allotment of scholarships to absolutely zero scholarships.

  2. #32
    AGS FCS Champion MplsBison's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lehigh Football Nation View Post
    So Dayton would have D-I weight rooms for their D-II football players and their state-of-the-art athletics facilities?
    That argument only works for DI schools playing DIII football.

    Most DII football schools would compete just fine with schools like Dayton. And powerhouse DII teams (GVSU, for exmaple) would crush them.


    And they would spend even less money on football than they already do - and that money could be funneled to basketball?
    As long as they stayed title IX compliant, yes.


    How is this fair when (say) Delaware spends money supporting football and men's basketball at the D-I level?

    Dayton is allowed to drop football right now if they wanted to.


    That would give Dayton and even bigger advantage over Delaware in basketball. Yet you are not saying anything about that.

    If you think the competitive advantages are bad now, imagine what they will be when teams funnel their money from football to basketball.

    They're going to funnel money from their DII football teams to their DI basketball teams?

  3. #33
    AGS FCS Champion MplsBison's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer View Post
    Absolute rubbish. The reason for the current situation is the Dayton Flyers! Last season, we finished ranked in the top 25 in some FCS polls and were rumored to be in the playoff discussions, ( although I seriously doubt that rumor ). We defeated the PL champion, on their home field. Is there anyone who can clearly demonstrate that our program is not a legitimate, FCS program? Ask Fordham or Albany if we were a legitimate FCS team. Yeah, that Albany that prides itself in playing so many "real" FCS teams.... 2007 is also not the first time the Flyers have been ranked in FCS at the end of the season. We also did it in 1996 and 1997!

    This is just more FBS wannabee talk. If you do not wish to be part of a diverse division, man up and provide 85 full athletic scholarships, get 15K fans to each home game and join your fantasy world of FBS. Pretty simple if you ask me, otherwise, quit your moaning! This division would be worlds better if all of the FBS wannabees and pretenders, ( and you know who you are ), would get off the pot and move to FBS.


    If you can not afford to give 45 equivalencies, you are not a FCS football team.

    You are DII.

  4. #34
    AGS FCS Champion MplsBison's Avatar
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    Re: DEEP Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by 401ks View Post
    As long as you give X amount of money to X number of guys out of the SPECIFIC "Football Pot of Money" in order to bribe them to come to your school, you deserve to call yourself "FCS".

    Putting it bluntly, yes.



    My son (a 2-Star rated recruit) turned down athletic scholarship offers to attend, and play football for, "non-scholarship" Butler University.

    Butler does not deserve to be in the FCS division unless it gives at least 45 (or some other arbitrary number) of equivalcies.

  5. #35
    First Class FCS Ruler USDFAN_55's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    I've said this a thousand times.... How does having scholarships make you a better or more worthy team? If a team can compete, then there should be no problem. We can list a lot of teams that offer scholarships that are horrible, but because they have scholarships they are worthy FCS teams. The issue I see is that if a non-scholarship team can beat up on a scholarship team, then what is the justification for spending all that money on scholarships? Having non-scholarship football teams isn't hurting anyone. If anything the schools success at basketball can bring a little more attention to FCS football (Just from the PFL there was San Diego, Drake, Buttler, and Davidson) from fans that don't know much about that level, but recognize the school name from their basketball success.

    So tell me this: What is so negative about having non-scholarship football at the FCS level? How does having scholarships make you a better team? Why not address the issue of having teams in the FCS that offer scholrships, but are not competetive. Those teams make the FCS look like a joke more than the non-scholarship teams do.

  6. #36
    First Class FCS Ruler EKU05's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    It doesn't matter what anyone thinks about this because...

    The reason that those programs left Division III was that the D3 membership voted them out. Regardless of whether we think it would be more fair at the Division II level the D2 membership would do the same thing. Why compete with a school that has the attraction of a Division I name when you don't have to?

    I'm not at all for forcibly removing any Division I school from FCS football. I do think that a conference should have to meet some kind of minimum standard of scholarships in order to be considered for (or keep) an automatic playoff bid, but beyond that any Division I school that plays football should play it in Division I as is the case now. Besides, as we're all aware some of these teams regularly outperform at lot of full scholarship programs.
    "Let's let'em know right now at the beginning of the game that they're playing EKU, and they're gonna get the hell knocked out of them right off the bat!"

    --Former EKU coach Roy Kidd

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  7. #37
    First Class FCS Ruler 401ks's Avatar
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    Re: DEEP Disappointment

    Quote Originally Posted by MplsBison View Post
    Butler does not deserve to be in the FCS division unless it gives at least 45 (or some other arbitrary number) of equivalcies.
    Let's see...

    It costs less than $12,000/year for NDSU to provide a full scholarship to one of their in-state football players, and just about $12,000 to a player from Minnesota.

    Butler will be providing DOUBLE that to my son to come to Butler.

    Who is it that's not coughing up enough bucks?

    It appears that there may not be a level playing field here.

    Hey, how about THIS for an idea that is just as brilliant and viable as the one that began this thread:

    Any school that is not providing AT LEAST $1,000,000 in institutional grants to its football STUDENT-ATHLETES doesn't deserve to be in the FCS!

    (My guess is that Butler surpasses that by hundreds of thousands of dollars each year.)
    Last edited by 401ks; March 27th, 2008 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Brilliant idea

  8. #38
    AGS FCS Master Saint3333's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Does anyone have the data of how many schools offer at least 75% of the 63 scholarships in the FCS?

    My guess is only the Pioneer, NE, and MAAC don't met this requirement, which is just under 20% of the division. (Note I don't count the Ivy and Patriot as they have at least that many grants).

    I like the idea of a minimum requirement, but grants would count towards the number. And yes I believe there is a strong correlation between the number of scholarships and FCS wins.
    16 teams were enough to crown a champion.

    "Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character."

  9. #39
    First Class FCS Ruler USDFAN_55's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saint3333 View Post
    Does anyone have the data of how many schools offer at least 75% of the 63 scholarships in the FCS?

    My guess is only the Pioneer, NE, and MAAC don't met this requirement, which is just under 20% of the division. (Note I don't count the Ivy and Patriot as they have at least that many grants).

    I like the idea of a minimum requirement, but grants would count towards the number. And yes I believe there is a strong correlation between the number of scholarships and FCS wins.
    News flash, Pioneer schools give the same grants to their players. They are called academic merit grants. There was a thread on this a while back.

  10. #40
    AGS FCS Expert bonarae's Avatar
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    Re: FCS non scholarship football teams to DII?

    Yes and no.

    What would be the Ivies' opinion on that? They wouldn't want something like this to happen, e.g. downgrading the set of teams their football teams would play...

    and yet, we don't play against DII teams, unlike some teams in the South who still play them (DII teams).
    The fans' three perpetual questions to the Ivy Presidents:
    When will you increase the number of games we are allowed to play in every season?
    Will you allow our champion to play for the FCS' grandest prize?
    Will you allow the major-conference schools (FBS and FCS alike) to schedule us without any fears or restrictions?

    In 2015, I will be cheering for two FCS teams at the same time (Harvard and ETSU). Just because I have no faith in the Ivy Presidents improving the state of Ivy football anymore to keep up with the rest of the FCS.

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