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  1. #91
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird 4th & short View Post
    hah ... so remind me, which ISU coach provided our player with the illegal substance to be delivered ?

    tell me this isn't more than a little ironic ? Granted, jury is still out.

    p.s. I agree he should have been suspended for a couple games. But he only dellivered .. he was not the seller.
    PPS He pled guilty to a ****ing felony.....and got an 11 day suspension during a time when literally nothing was happening and got a complete reinstatement within 2 hours of pleading guilty to the felony
    Playoff records of teams I follow since 1991:Twins: 6-22 (.214)
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  2. #92
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird 4th & short View Post
    hah ... so remind me, which ISU coach provided our player with the illegal substance to be delivered ?

    tell me this isn't more than a little ironic ? Granted, jury is still out.

    p.s. I agree he should have been suspended for a couple games. But he only dellivered .. he was not the seller.
    I don't know... has an ISU coach ever given a player a can of soda??? If so, he provided that player with an "illegal substance".

    To act like this is some significant black eye for the NDSU program is pretty laughable. I agree that the optics here aren't that great but NDSU can't, legally, say what the illegal substance was. All signs point to it being caffeine based on the supplement this alleged "trusted staff member" was peddling. The only person who can give specifics is the player or his representative(s) and it appears he's done talking about it for the time being. I'd say everyone associated with the NDSU program learned a lesson or two regarding this and a guy lost his senior season because of it.

    One failed test out of 600+ in the last 9 years does not give me any indication that this is a systemic issue. NDSU has had players dismissed from the team as early as last year for issues bigger than this. You're reading far too much into this if you're trying to make it into an "a-ha!" moment to say NDSU has dirty laundry too... this has already been established and has little to do with pre-workout supplements.
    Professor Chaos is a proud supporter of the 7-time NCAA Division 1 Football National Champion North Dakota State Bison.

  3. #93

    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Chaos View Post
    I don't know... has an ISU coach ever given a player a can of soda??? If so, he provided that player with an "illegal substance".

    To act like this is some significant black eye for the NDSU program is pretty laughable. I agree that the optics here aren't that great but NDSU can't, legally, say what the illegal substance was. All signs point to it being caffeine based on the supplement this alleged "trusted staff member" was peddling. The only person who can give specifics is the player or his representative(s) and it appears he's done talking about it for the time being. I'd say everyone associated with the NDSU program learned a lesson or two regarding this and a guy lost his senior season because of it.

    One failed test out of 600+ in the last 9 years does not give me any indication that this is a systemic issue. NDSU has had players dismissed from the team as early as last year for issues bigger than this. You're reading far too much into this if you're trying to make it into an "a-ha!" moment to say NDSU has dirty laundry too... this has already been established and has little to do with pre-workout supplements.
    agree, the jury is still out. But the family's defense is compelling and warrants a little more investigation. Though it wouldn't be the first time a mom reflexively believed a child and would do anything to defend the child. The fact that she is a Bison alumni (hall of famer) and from a very sports-minded family from North Dakota, does give their story a little more weight. I mean who would make such an accusation against program like this knowing they have to live the rest of their lives having made this accusation against such a storied football program.

    But again .. the jury is still out and youre right .. only 1 verified positive drug test.

    p.s as ambiguities surrounding sports performance/enhancement drugs and "what is a banned substance" goes, I think itr could be argued there is even more ambiguity surrounding the illegality of marijuana. Now 33 states allow marijuana usage, 10 of which allow it recreationally .. and list is growing. If you knew how conservative Mclean Count and Normal, IL law enforcement and judicial system is, and that they let him off with community service and probation, and the "delivery" charge was dropped to misdemeanor .. that speaks to how serious of a crime it really was.

  4. #94
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird 4th & short View Post
    agree, the jury is still out. But the family's defense is compelling and warrants a little more investigation. Though it wouldn't be the first time a mom reflexively believed a child and would do anything to defend the child. The fact that she is a Bison alumni (hall of famer) and from a very sports-minded family from North Dakota, does give their story a little more weight. I mean who would make such an accusation against program like this knowing they have to live the rest of their lives having made this accusation against such a storied football program.

    But again .. the jury is still out and youre right .. only 1 verified positive drug test.

    p.s as ambiguities surrounding sports performance/enhancement drugs and "what is a banned substance" goes, I think itr could be argued there is even more ambiguity surrounding the illegality of marijuana. Now 33 states allow marijuana usage, 10 of which allow it recreationally .. and list is growing. If you knew how conservative Mclean Count and Normal, IL law enforcement and judicial system is, and that they let him off with community service and probation, and the "delivery" charge was dropped to misdemeanor .. that speaks to how serious of a crime it really was.
    Well if you believe his story that this substance was widely used throughout the locker room and the fact that he was the only player to fail in testing, you can only come to one logical conclusion. This substance is not illegal when used at the proper dosage and or under the directions. Therefore the fault for the failed test result still has to fall back on the individual who misused the product or combined it with another substance.

  5. #95
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird 4th & short View Post
    agree, the jury is still out. But the family's defense is compelling and warrants a little more investigation. Though it wouldn't be the first time a mom reflexively believed a child and would do anything to defend the child. The fact that she is a Bison alumni (hall of famer) and from a very sports-minded family from North Dakota, does give their story a little more weight. I mean who would make such an accusation against program like this knowing they have to live the rest of their lives having made this accusation against such a storied football program.

    But again .. the jury is still out and youre right .. only 1 verified positive drug test.

    p.s as ambiguities surrounding sports performance/enhancement drugs and "what is a banned substance" goes, I think itr could be argued there is even more ambiguity surrounding the illegality of marijuana. Now 33 states allow marijuana usage, 10 of which allow it recreationally .. and list is growing. If you knew how conservative Mclean Count and Normal, IL law enforcement and judicial system is, and that they let him off with community service and probation, and the "delivery" charge was dropped to misdemeanor .. that speaks to how serious of a crime it really was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bisonator View Post
    Well if you believe his story that this substance was widely used throughout the locker room and the fact that he was the only player to fail in testing, you can only come to one logical conclusion. This substance is not illegal when used at the proper dosage and or under the directions. Therefore the fault for the failed test result still has to fall back on the individual who misused the product or combined it with another substance.
    Yep, I think the mom's story that it was widely used is plausible given the fact that it was a pre-workout supplement. The part that the school and player/mom directly contradict each other on is who he got it from but if it's a legal supplement when used as directed I'm not sure that means as much as I originally thought it did. I get the feeling NDSU may be getting overly technical when it says he got the supplement from another student (as in another student bought it and gave it to him or another student mixed it for him) but whatever... if it is too much caffeine it's more of a "well that was dumb" type of thing than a "cheater!" type of thing.
    Professor Chaos is a proud supporter of the 7-time NCAA Division 1 Football National Champion North Dakota State Bison.

  6. #96
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Post that needed to be shared here I found on BV that is worth the read

    http://www.bisonville.com/forum/show....php?p=1335608

    Re: Brock Robbins

    The following is a hypothetical scenario with some basic science mixed in:

    Let's say that.....

    -an athlete is in the locker room preparing to play in a football game.

    -During that time, this same athlete consumes a beverage(s) containing 2 scoops of the product (supplement) that has been referenced in this thread.

    -This particular powdered beverage contains 250 milligrams of anhydrous caffeine per scoop.

    -Nearly all of this caffeine is present throughout this athlete's body's within 45 minutes.*

    -the result (500 total milligrams of caffeine) puts that athlete at about 15 mcg/mL (at the NCAA maximum allowable limit).

    -then, the athlete competes in that day's football game which typically lasts for about 3 hours.

    -the athlete's body metabolizes the ingested caffeine at a rate of [half of the amount consumed] over a 5 hour period**

    -The total elapsed time (getting dressed, warm up, additional pre-game activities, on the field post-game activities), is perhaps 4 hours.

    -assuming no additional caffeine was ingested since the initial amount discussed above, the remaining level would likely be between 260-280 mg (8-9 mcg/mL)

    -Once the player is back in the locker room area, a drug screening is administered.*

    -In the scenario above, this particular athlete would PASS the urinalysis according to the NCAA guidelines.

    -In order to fail a*POST-GAME*test under the above scenario, this athlete would have had to have consumed between 800-850 milligrams of caffeine before the game.

    or......and this is the part that makes me cringe.....

    -He would have had to consume caffeine DURING the game.

    And, of course, most of this **** is moot if the test in the above scenario was administered pre-game.

    *https://www.caffeineinformer.com/caffeine-metabolism

    ***https://www.news-medical.net/health/...rmacology.aspx



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    Playoff records of teams I follow since 1991:Twins: 6-22 (.214)
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    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  7. #97
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    We don't know when he was tested. The NCAA can test before, during or after a game.

  8. #98
    First Class FCS Ruler NDSUtk's Avatar
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    I am not sure why so many are demanding that there be an investigation. Perhaps there already was enough of one and a decision was made inside the program. Look at Clemson, they suspended multiple people. Programs deal with program issues and they don't have to become public. I doubt the public will ever hear more than we already have. Just my guess. I understand people want to know more, but there's no obligation by anyone to provide more.

  9. #99
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    Re: Can I Borrow Some PreWorkout Brah?

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUtk View Post
    I am not sure why so many are demanding that there be an investigation. Perhaps there already was enough of one and a decision was made inside the program. Look at Clemson, they suspended multiple people. Programs deal with program issues and they don't have to become public. I doubt the public will ever hear more than we already have. Just my guess. I understand people want to know more, but there's no obligation by anyone to provide more.

    Look at SDSU - Coach gets popped joosing, and the coach discreetly punished himself.
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