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  1. #21
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    I've been on this forum a few minutes (12 years?) and maybe done a power ranking a handful of times.

    As I noted, I'm aware that the point of the power rankings is subjective. Your subjectivity, though, is to put all the teams Wofford has beaten at the top, and the other teams at the bottom.

    Regarding the Citadel, I suppose reasonable minds can differ regarding whether losing to Towson by three touchdowns is a "blowout." Yeah, Furman lost badly to Elon. From what I've seen, I think Elon would beat the brakes off any team in the SoCon. The only team Elon's lost to is undefeated USF.

    Wofford fans have a right to be bullish on their team. I cannot be disputed, though, they haven't exactly played murderer's row. VMI is terrible. Gardner Webb is terrible. Wyoming is a bad FBS program. The Citadel is going nowhere this season. And UTC is probably firmly "mediocre."
    That is all fine and good, but you've set yourself up in a position where you can't lose, which is convenient. It just so happens to be the fact that Wofford beat 2 of the top 4 teams listed. I already admitted it's a crap shoot, which basically means it's all for not. But instead of talking about why it's a crap shoot or the merits of the rankings themselves, you're instead implying it's just a homer list without much substance other than that. It's possible to be both accurate and sympathetic to Wofford's wins. But then again, at this point in the season, it's not going to be accurate, given limited information. So instead of engaging on the merits, you're attacking credibility in a way that's total special pleading.

    Who would you rank above Chattanooga that I haven't? It's pretty much a no on the citadel, Samford, VMI, or Western. We don't know what Mercer looks like without Riddle and we don't know enough about Furman. Hanging 40 on Western doesn't seem hard this year.

    When the polls come out tomorrow we're going to see the citadel is 0-3 against top 25 teams, just watch.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  2. #22
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Also I want to make it clear: I think the citadel will beat ETSU, but I'm going to be pulling for the Bucs.

    Would love to see a 6-1 ETSU team come into Spartanburg on homecoming.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  3. #23
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Mercer
    Wofford
    ETSU (not sure what to think of The Citadel now)
    Samford
    Chattanooga
    Tim Murphy Retirement Watch: now ongoing ... so that Harvard football will move toward relevance again.

    But the Ivy Presidents' stance need to change too.

  4. #24
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngterrier View Post
    That is all fine and good, but you've set yourself up in a position where you can't lose, which is convenient. It just so happens to be the fact that Wofford beat 2 of the top 4 teams listed. I already admitted it's a crap shoot, which basically means it's all for not. But instead of talking about why it's a crap shoot or the merits of the rankings themselves, you're instead implying it's just a homer list without much substance other than that. It's possible to be both accurate and sympathetic to Wofford's wins. But then again, at this point in the season, it's not going to be accurate, given limited information. So instead of engaging on the merits, you're attacking credibility in a way that's total special pleading.

    Who would you rank above Chattanooga that I haven't? It's pretty much a no on the citadel, Samford, VMI, or Western. We don't know what Mercer looks like without Riddle and we don't know enough about Furman. Hanging 40 on Western doesn't seem hard this year.

    When the polls come out tomorrow we're going to see the citadel is 0-3 against top 25 teams, just watch.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    Since you asked:

    1. Wofford - They are handling their business. They aren't the best Wofford team I've seen, but are doing what they need to do to win games. I think Conklin has inherited a largely veteran team (16 seniors) and an already strong defensive unit. A bit like Clay Hendrix did with Furman last season, Conklin took over a team with some pretty good veteran players at key positions. Again, I don't think they've played anyone remotely qualifying as a good team to this point, so we don't really know what Wofford will look like when they hit the meat of their schedule.

    2. ETSU - They aren't a pretty 5-1, but an ugly 5-1 counts all the same. Pulled one out of their fannies against Furman, but have largely played well. Their defense is carrying them at this point, but I don't think their offense is good enough to keep them at this level all season.

    3. Samford - They've had a disappointing start to the year, but I cannot believe they will continue to stumble through the rest of their schedule. I like them over Furman right now because of the Paladins' seeming lack of pass defense. I realize they haven't played up to snuff, but they have too much talent to suck.

    4. Furman - The Paladins have played the league's toughest schedule and, in my opinion, it isn't even close. No SoCon team has played an FBS team the caliber of Clemson nor an FCS team as good as Elon. They had ETSU beat for three quarters and looked in complete control of the Bucs for much of that game until just an inexplicable meltdown late. I think we would have beaten currently undefeated Colgate as well, and in that regard aren't really that far away from being 3-2 with two losses to top teams on the road. I think Furman has a lot more in the tank and has improved each week. Their contest against Wofford will be an interesting one to watch because Furman is pretty decent against the run (depsite facing the CAA's top rushing team and the ACC's top running back) and will likely have the best offense Wofford has seen this year.

    5. UTC - The Mocs are improved over last year, but are pretty bad on offense. Their defense has talent, but it comes in spurts and isn't good enough to pick up their offense. Like a few others, they've ridden an easy schedule to a nice looking record.

    6. WCU - With Tyrie Adams, I think the Catamounts are dangerous. What I saw last week was not just a "Furman had a bad defensive game," but a QB that was playing out of his mind. If he's in the game, WCU will be in the game. Their defense is unbelievably bad, though. Just moderate improvement on that side of the ball and they'd be a legitimate contender.

    7. Mercer - Without Riddle, I think the Bears will start looking a lot like last year's team without as good of a defense. The offensive look reminds me a lot of Furman under Tim Sorrell - single back zone read stuff that works for some teams, and doesn't for others. From what I've seen, their offense really needs to be to throw the ball in the general vicinity of Marquise Irvin. I could rank them higher, but I just don't see Mercer as being particularly standout on either side of the ball. Furman/WCU have better offenses, and UTC a better defense.

    8. The Citadel - They are doing a good bit of what they did last year - losing close games. They got beat soundly by a good Towson team. Hopefully for Coach Thompsons' job security, the Cadets don't fold their tents and go home like they did last year. They are an athletic team, but a poor fundamental group with bad tackling habits. They haven't even begun to face the league's top offenses yet, which are going to punish them for taking bad angles and arm tackling.

    9. VMI - The Keydets are surprising me. They are showing a lot more fight than I was anticipating. They may even knock someone off this year.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  5. #25
    AGS FCS Champion
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    1. Wofford
    2. ETSU
    3. Chattanooga
    4. The Citadel
    5. Samford
    6. Mercer
    7. Furman
    8. WCU
    9. VMI


    And yes, I have Mercer behind Samford...now that they are minus QB, plus Samford looks to have awoken. I guess WCU's defense was a tonic.


    Mercer at YALE - don't think Bears get it done, I hope so, but tall task on the road - 38-28
    WOFFORD at Furman - Wofford 2-3 scores - 34-17
    East Tenn at THE CITADEL - Dogs may hit their stride, with extra week of rest and ETSU's first road game in a month - 35-27
    VMI at SAMFORD - VMI may still show improvement, but Bama Dogs roll - 56-31
    WCU at UTC - Mocs bounce back - 31-21
    FIRE THOSE CANNONS!

  6. #26
    First Class FCS Ruler gofurman's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    I've been on this forum a few minutes (12 years?) and maybe done a power ranking a handful of times.

    As I noted, I'm aware that the point of the power rankings is subjective. Your subjectivity, though, is to put all the teams Wofford has beaten at the top, and the other teams at the bottom.

    Regarding the Citadel, I suppose reasonable minds can differ regarding whether losing to Towson by three touchdowns is a "blowout." Yeah, Furman lost badly to Elon. IFrom what I've seen, I think Elon would beat the brakes off any team in the SoCon. The only team Elon's lost to is undefeated USF.

    Wofford fans have a right to be bullish on their team. I cannot be disputed, though, they haven't exactly played murderer's row. VMI is terrible. Gardner Webb is terrible. Wyoming is a bad FBS program. The Citadel is going nowhere this season. And UTC is probably firmly "mediocre."
    “From what I've seen, I think Elon would beat the brakes off any team in the SoCon. “

    I am OBJECTIVE. Wofford May kill my Paladins this weekend. But Wofford is NOT Elon. Wofford isn’t going into JMU and winning like Elon did.

    Elon would OWN the SoCon... they look like a top 3 national team. JMU hasn’t lost at home in 20 consecutive games !!! Elon went in and won. As a “39 point underdog”...right. People are learning how that is a super team at Elon. No one in SoCon is as good as Elon. That’s a fact

  7. #27
    First Class FCS Ruler Mocs123's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by gofurman View Post
    “From what I've seen, I think Elon would beat the brakes off any team in the SoCon. “

    I am OBJECTIVE. Wofford May kill my Paladins this weekend. But Wofford is NOT Elon. Wofford isn’t going into JMU and winning like Elon did.

    Elon would OWN the SoCon... they look like a top 3 national team. JMU hasn’t lost at home in 20 consecutive games !!! Elon went in and won. As a “39 point underdog”...right. People are learning how that is a super team at Elon. No one in SoCon is as good as Elon. That’s a fact
    It can't be long until Elon's coach gets a G5 job. They were a dumpster fire when they left the SoCon.

  8. #28
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Strengths/weaknesses of every team I see right now:

    Chattanooga:
    What's good: Good passing game and athletic defense.
    What's bad: the running game. It's really really bad, actually.
    Note: I am sympathetic to those who would say "well, actually, Chattanooga's offense is just bad" but here's the thing: for the rest of the season (sans USC) they have the Mercer, Furman, Western Carolina, and VMI. All of those defenses are vulnerable. I haven't seen enough of Mercer yet to judge their pass defense, but Mercer's overall defense is not as good as last year right now. I think Chattanooga wins at least 6 games and I think will compete for a playoff spot, especially if ETSU and Mercer have a strong showing this year.

    The Citadel:
    What's good: offense is definitely improved upon last year. they were only good for 2 scores last year, but so far they've been good for at least 3 against stiff defensive competition.
    What's bad: the defense. They've fallen off over the last 2 years. Not sure if it's the pass defense or the overall defense, but the pass defense is bad.
    Note: Anyone who says the Citadel is bad just isn't watching. I think they're the South Carolina gamecocks of the Socon. Seriously flawed, not gonna win the conference, but they will make plays and keep your focus.

    ETSU:
    What's good: Their defense. It's scrappy and has done basically everything you would ask of it thus far.
    What's bad: Their offense. It's done just enough, but they need have struggled against so-so conference competition. It may be a stretch to say "they're bad on offense," but I don't think the performance they are showing will keep them competitive against Mercer, Wofford, the Citadel or Samford.
    Note: still...their defense makes plays! I'm very skeptical of ETSU, but at the same time you have to give credit where credit is due. It's no longer a question *if* they are competing for a playoff spot. They are. Full stop. I think they'll win at least 7 games. That won't be enough to get in, but I think 8 wins would be good enough. I ranked them this week

    Furman:
    What's good: They have a pretty balanced attack and a QB who can throw. Nothing really jumps out at you if you look at the dins on paper, partially because they have a few lopsided losses to very good teams. They don't run the ball as good as they do last year, but you can see a commitment to more balance on offense which may or may not be a good thing. At the very least Hendrix is playing to his personnel's strengths.
    What's bad: The defense. I've harped on them before so I'm not going to beat a dead horse. It's hard's to say one way or another what the strengths are in this unit because the stats are all over the place. On one hand, they contained Western's run game to less than 4 ypc...but they also allowed 400 yards through the air. Austin Herink had a field day with their secondary as well. They also let Elon run for nearly 300 yards on them. That's not a good stat because the personnel (as far as I know?) from last year to this year was pretty much the same from the playoff game where they held Elon to about 150. I may be belaboring the point, but we just don't know enough about Furman's defense one way or another other than it's not good right now.
    Note: Furman's the team we know the least about. Yes, they played a tough schedule and yes, the played a great offensive game against Western Carolina, but at this point we don't know if their trajectory is toward an improvement like last year (I'm skeptical). The narrative would definitely be different had they played/beaten Colgate and not choked against ETSU (who is very hard to beat at home). If they were sitting at 3-2 right now, Elon would be getting #1 votes this week.

    Mercer:
    What's good: Their offense is better this year. Admittedly, I haven't watched them as much as I'd like and Riddle being hurt is a setback, but they still score the most frequently of any team in the Socon (if you discount FBS games)
    What's bad: Their defense is not as good as last year. Last year's defense and this year's offense would be a playoff team (too bad that's not how it works). That's not to say that Mercer is a bad defensive team, they just aren't as good this year.
    Note: Like Furman, we don't know enough about Mercer. They lost to the Citadel, but as already established, it's a safe bet that the Citadel's offense is better and special teams were the difference. They have a good win against Samford, a win against Jacksonville (which tells us nothing), and a win against VMI without Riddle (which tells us little). Their record through 5 games is about what you'd expect with the only surprises being Citadel and Samford being the opposite expected outcomes. The big thing is that the defense hasn't played up to par to what you want from them as evident by the VMI, Citadel, and Memphis games. The season's not over yet. They're probably one of the few Socon teams that could get in with 7 wins, pending on what the 4 losses. That's not to say that I think they'll go 7-4, but I do think they have one of the bigger margins of error in the conference.

    Samford:
    What's good: Devlin Hodges and Kelvin McKnight. And their remaining schedule. They probably won't get into the playoffs, but they could make it a controversy if they win out. Historically, teams like Wofford, Furman, and the Citadel play not-so-good pass defense. They have those 3 teams on the schedule and VMI and ETSU.
    What's bad: everything else. Look, I give Samford a 50% chance of finishing with a winning record right now. 30% chance to make the playoffs and a 40% chance of winning out. Going on the road to play the Citadel, Furman, and ETSU is not going to be easy, even if they have some matchup advantages. Their defense has to step up and their offense has to score points.
    Note: I'm not going to sit here and pretend like we don't know enough about Samford. We do. Based on what I've seen so far this year, I think they'll be favored against Furman, VMI, and the Citadel (all of their pass defenses are bad). They should also be favored against ETSU, but that game will be tough on the road. Wofford will be tough as well because Wofford is playing good pass defense for the first time since Matt Nelson was in the secondary in 2003 (see: my profile pic).

    Western Carolina:
    What's good: Tyree Adams. But even then, I think they've managed an easy schedule in terms of the defenses they've played. All five of the defenses they've played haven't been great and I'm interested to see how Western does against a solid defense like Wofford, Chattanooga, ETSU, and even Mercer. I don't think Tyree Adams is overrated, but I think their offense might be.
    What's bad: The defense. I'm not joking, it's probably the worst defense statistically that I have ever seen. Western could be a 3-8 team this year.
    Note: I really don't have much else to say other than that.

    Wofford:
    What's good: A LOT. Offense is racking up the most yardage since Eric Breitenstein graduated, and it's not dependent on one player. Defense is noticeably improved in the secondary, third down defense, and total yardage.
    What's bad: turnovers and field goals. What's keeping our games competitive this year are turnovers. If we don't have a couple bone head turnovers against the Citadel, it's a blow out. If we don't fumble against Gardner Webb it's a worse blow out. If we don't fumble against Chattanooga it's at least 28-10. Luke Carter has also missed 3 FGs, including 2 last week.
    Note: Wofford's in a weird spot because we were the ugliest socon champ ever last year. Last year we made bonehead mistakes that made games closer than they should have been, with us almost losing. This year we're doing that, but it's keeping games within 2 touchdowns instead of a blowout.

    VMI:
    What's good: they have an offense! They've probably scored more in the last couple games than they have over the last few seasons. They only scored 88 points or so last year on offense.
    What's bad: Defense still needs work and their QB isn't great. Udinski isn't a bad QB, but he's definitely missed some easy passes at times this year. I bet the Keydets wish Hodges didn't transfer.
    Note: VMI will beat somebody this year. I don't know who, but it will happen.

  9. #29
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    So if Wofford blows out Furman, are we a super team now?

    Asking for a friend.

  10. #30
    Major FCS Ruler FUGameBreaker's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    1. Wofford
    2. ETSU (Winning on the road is tough, they will lose at Citadel this Saturday)
    3. Furman (I will move FU to #1 after we beat Woff this Saturday)
    4. Mercer (Need to pick up an OOC win for the SoCon)
    5. UTC (Need a win at WCU otherwise season will spiral down the drain)
    6. Samford
    7. Citadel
    8. WCU
    9. VMI

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