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  1. #121
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    You can accept the fact that Furman has played much tougher competition than Wofford or not. It does not change the fact. So you can throw all the statistics you want out there, but the statistics don't mean much when you ignore that all things are not equal.
    Statistics don't become irrelevant because they are inconvenient. The stats against FBS games are irrelevant because it's a different game all together (which is why I don't even bring up Wyoming...even though it has minimal effect on our stats either way), but with Elon it's fair to take a look because you can extrapolate some general trends.

    I think it's significant that Elon ran for more yardage against Furman than most/all(?) of the teams they played. That tells you something about Furman's defense. It's not like with Clemson where they blow out everyone and the diminished stats are somewhat random.

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  2. #122
    AGS FCS Champion youngterrier's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBeAR View Post
    You must have missed the distinction I made between QUANTITATIVE & QUALITATIVE Passing stats.

    Unless Wofford played ETSU in a secret scrimmage this year, I can’t make any sense of your 2nd paragraph.

    You’re really going to try to draw some comparison of WCU’s game with Furman WITH Tyrie Adams & their game with Samford without him. C’mon, you already tried to pee in my ear & tell me it’s raining once this week. Ain’t nobody buyin’ that ish!!
    I think Western Carolina's offense is, in general, a little overrated. They rack up yards against bad defenses and then they faulter against tough ones. If you want to talk about overrated, most of their yardage on the ground comes against the most depleted front in FCS, a D2 team, and VMI (VMI's offense actually outscored them).

    I'm still not convinced that they've replaced Newsome yet. Tyrie Adams leads the team in yards gained this year and I can't find last year's stats but I'm pretty sure that was not the case.

    Again, that's not to say that what Furman did wasn't an accomplishment, Adams or not, but there are signs the "Western has a great offense" hypothesis will come crashing down against Chattanooga, Wofford, or even ETSU

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  3. #123
    FCS Champion FUBeAR's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngterrier View Post
    I think Western Carolina's offense is, in general, a little overrated. They rack up yards against bad defenses and then they faulter against tough ones. If you want to talk about overrated, most of their yardage on the ground comes against the most depleted front in FCS, a D2 team, and VMI (VMI's offense actually outscored them).

    I'm still not convinced that they've replaced Newsome yet. Tyrie Adams leads the team in yards gained this year and I can't find last year's stats but I'm pretty sure that was not the case.

    Again, that's not to say that what Furman did wasn't an accomplishment, Adams or not, but there are signs the "Western has a great offense" hypothesis will come crashing down against Chattanooga, Wofford, or even ETSU

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    you ain’t hearing me say WCU has a great anything, other than Mr. Adams. Well, their Punter has been great in the past. And they played NOBODY until they played FU & Samford. But you really can’t compare those games (which you did) because they might as well be a completely different Team was without him than they are with him.

    Furman was totally & embarrassingly punked by E*Loan. You can consider that game statistically or not. You’re choice. I don’t expect to see a Furman Team EVER get punked like that again under Coach Hendrix. If it does, he’ll be looking for a lot of new Players & if it happened with any kind of frequency, I would encourage Furman to find a new Head Coach...but it won’t...so I’m not worried.
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  4. #124
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngterrier View Post
    Statistics don't become irrelevant because they are inconvenient. The stats against FBS games are irrelevant because it's a different game all together (which is why I don't even bring up Wyoming...even though it has minimal effect on our stats either way), but with Elon it's fair to take a look because you can extrapolate some general trends.

    I think it's significant that Elon ran for more yardage against Furman than most/all(?) of the teams they played. That tells you something about Furman's defense. It's not like with Clemson where they blow out everyone and the diminished stats are somewhat random.

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    Elon returned four starters on the offensive line with, I think, 110 combined starts between them. Their RT is an NFL prospect and perhaps the top prospect in FCS football. Their running back, Summers, is arguably the best RB in the CAA and one of the better backs in the country. Summers didn't play at all against Furman in the post-season game and barely in the first contest last year.

    They just put 27 points on James Madison. Over the last 24 contests, James Madison has only allowed 20 points 3 times (Weber State last year in the playoffs, NC State this year, and Elon).

    Elon rushed for 212 against James Madison Saturday. They put up almost 500 yards of offense against one of the most dominating defenses in FCS history.

    No, Furman didn't look good against them. Elon is also a really good football team.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  5. #125
    FCS Champion FUBeAR's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    Elon returned four starters on the offensive line with, I think, 110 combined starts between them. Their RT is an NFL prospect and perhaps the top prospect in FCS football. Their running back, Summers, is arguably the best RB in the CAA and one of the better backs in the country. Summers didn't play at all against Furman in the post-season game and barely in the first contest last year.

    They just put 27 points on James Madison. Over the last 24 contests, James Madison has only allowed 20 points 3 times (Weber State last year in the playoffs, NC State this year, and Elon).

    Elon rushed for 212 against James Madison Saturday. They put up almost 500 yards of offense against one of the most dominating defenses in FCS history.

    No, Furman didn't look good against them. Elon is also a really good football team.
    All that may be true, but still Furman looked like they wanted to be the nicest Team on the field against the Formerly Fightin’ Former Christians. They looked like they were afraid they might make E*Loan’s Players mad if they played too hard or got nasty with them. They were completely unready mentally & emotionally to play a Football game. Another way to say this is, “E*Loan hit them in the mouth and, not only did they ‘take it,’ they said, “Please, sir, may I have another.”” I didn’t see them do that all year last year, nor against Clemson, nor since...so, I’m sure the Coaching Staff had some long come-to-eight-pound-six-ounce-newborn-Baby Jesus conversations with the Players after that game and reminded them that despite all of the whiz-bang technical cool stuff we do, the essence of the game of Football is man-on-man violence. If they don’t want to violently keep another man from doing what he violently wants to do, then they are playing the wrong game and don’t need to bother stepping on the field ever again. I was on the sidelines for the WCU game & can assure that the ‘Dins were dishing out PLENTY of violence. I expect that they will again this Saturday.
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  6. #126
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBeAR View Post
    All that may be true, but still Furman looked like they wanted to be the nicest Team on the field against the Formerly Fightin’ Former Christians. They looked like they were afraid they might make E*Loan’s Players mad if they played too hard or got nasty with them. They were completely unready mentally & emotionally to play a Football game. Another way to say this is, “E*Loan hit them in the mouth and, not only did they ‘take it,’ they said, “Please, sir, may I have another.”” I didn’t see them do that all year last year, nor against Clemson, nor since...so, I’m sure the Coaching Staff had some long come-to-eight-pound-six-ounce-newborn-Baby Jesus conversations with the Players after that game and reminded them that despite all of the whiz-bang technical cool stuff we do, the essence of the game of Football is man-on-man violence. If they don’t want to violently keep another man from doing what he violently wants to do, then they are playing the wrong game and don’t need to bother stepping on the field ever again. I was on the sidelines for the WCU game & can assure that the ‘Dins were dishing out PLENTY of violence. I expect that they will again this Saturday.
    I don't disagree with that. I think we gave up an early touchdown after a fumble and it started to snowball from there. While I think Elon is the better team, I don't think they are 38 points better than Furman (or whatever the margin was).

    Coach Hendrix voiced concerns a few weeks ago about leadership on our offense. You look at the roster and there are two senior starters and a bunch of freshmen and sophomores. Those guys have to grow up and the only way to do that is to get thrown out there and get better.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  7. #127
    First Class FCS Ruler gofurman's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by youngterrier View Post
    It's not really fair to say Wofford has bad passing stats. We're not near the bottom on all of them, we're actually I think second in completion percentage and passing efficiency. We're also passing for more yardage than Furman.

    I'm still not sold that ETSU has a run game worth comparing to Wofford (or any option team for that matter). I know it's apples and oranges between them and us in terms of defensive look, but Chattanooga also held ETSU under 100 yards and 2.9 ypc. And then we ran for over 400 on chatt.

    It is true that Furman held Western Carolina in check in the run game, and they ran it 43 times. That is one data point. Western Carolina has had an up and down year in terms of running the ball, and Samford held them to similar numbers the next week.

    My general feeling is that in the last ~4 years the best run defenses in the conference (in terms of ypc and total yardage) was Wofford, Chattanooga, and the citadel (and maybe Mercer). I know one gets the impression that's the case because they don't play their own offense, but if you've run for more than 100-125 yards against these teams (and you weren't an option team), that was a bad day for that defense. Put another way, unless you're Furman or the Citadel, I don't expect you to run for more than 100ish yards against us.

    I don't get that impression from Furman yet. Last year, the efficiency of the offense put teams in catch up mode which naturally made them pass more and run less which padded the stats *slightly.* This year, it's much too early to say either way. We only have 3 data points.

    I will say that Elon ran for more yards against Furman than their average and I think any other team and their QB only threw 12 passes. That's a more similar gameplan to what Wofford will do than Western or ETSU. But again, it's an apples and oranges comparison because Wofford runs the option.

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    If Citadel was one of the best run D last year (we ran for like 280 on em and passed for abotu 260) to win 56-20 ? And we CRUSHED UTC w their vaunted run defense last year. I guess I feel better about Furman than I used to.


    anyway, I am NOT saying Furman will win. Why should we ? - you guys are Alabama right? I guess you are the Notre Dame of FCS - top 5, etc. I think Wofford wins by 20 - so, seeing that I am objective:

    But I will say Elon was IMPRESSIVE. I'll be shocked if I see you do to my Paladins what Elon did.

    ... and I agree, I think Hendrix and Staggs inherited some decent players last year... and took those SAME GUYS and went from 3 wins to 8 wins and the playoffs... clearly these guys can coach. Do we miss our OC? that is yet to be seen - will take 2 years just like it will take 2/3 years to see Conklin recruiting.

    Still, our D has Staggs and Hendrix is an OL genius - that's why Air Force hired him from Furman. We are just in a trough of players right now. To wit, he have Roberts a 'serviceable' senior QB and then no QB on the roster except for FR that Hendrix brought in. It happens..

    But I see strength in Hendrix recruiting - Hope is a freshman and leads FCS in sacks (or did). McKoy is a sophomore and is our best LB. Reynard Ellis (transferred) was at LB and was on the Jerry Rice List for best freshman in the nation. - so Hendrix brought in two superstars at LB and a freaky sack bandit. Others - "Dejuan Bell (true Fr) fashioned quite aperformance in the Paladins’ 44-38 victory over Western Carolina on Sept. 29, returning a kickoff97 yards for a touchdown and also collecting a 45-yard touchdown reception. Bell, who finishedthe game with 208 all-purpose yards, was named SoCon Special Teams Player of the Week" .. Wynn true Sophomore seems a speedy guy . Burnette is a nice receiver and true sophomore

    So we have seen Hendrix can recruit... and last year saw he can coach - so that's all very encouraging ! I do hope Cronic as OC leaving doesn't hurt. That is what FU has to watch. Wofford has to watch Conklin's recruiting and ability to transition from DC to HC - sometimes it works.. sometimes not. Conklin has a lot of talent to work with this year. Not sure how many are seniors.??

  8. #128
    First Class FCS Ruler gofurman's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBeAR View Post
    All that may be true, but still Furman looked like they wanted to be the nicest Team on the field against the Formerly Fightin’ Former Christians. They looked like they were afraid they might make E*Loan’s Players mad if they played too hard or got nasty with them. They were completely unready mentally & emotionally to play a Football game. Another way to say this is, “E*Loan hit them in the mouth and, not only did they ‘take it,’ they said, “Please, sir, may I have another.”” I didn’t see them do that all year last year, nor against Clemson, nor since...so, I’m sure the Coaching Staff had some long come-to-eight-pound-six-ounce-newborn-Baby Jesus conversations with the Players after that game and reminded them that despite all of the whiz-bang technical cool stuff we do, the essence of the game of Football is man-on-man violence. If they don’t want to violently keep another man from doing what he violently wants to do, then they are playing the wrong game and don’t need to bother stepping on the field ever again. I was on the sidelines for the WCU game & can assure that the ‘Dins were dishing out PLENTY of violence. I expect that they will again this Saturday.
    Yep - no excusing the lack of tackling .. that was HORRID. just no effort after we got down 14. kids hanging their heads etc. pathetic

  9. #129
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by gofurman View Post
    If Citadel was one of the best run D last year (we ran for like 280 on em and passed for abotu 260) to win 56-20 ? And we CRUSHED UTC w their vaunted run defense last year. I guess I feel better about Furman than I used to.


    anyway, I am NOT saying Furman will win. Why should we ? - you guys are Alabama right? I guess you are the Notre Dame of FCS - top 5, etc. I think Wofford wins by 20 - so, seeing that I am objective:

    But I will say Elon was IMPRESSIVE. I'll be shocked if I see you do to my Paladins what Elon did.

    ... and I agree, I think Hendrix and Staggs inherited some decent players last year... and took those SAME GUYS and went from 3 wins to 8 wins and the playoffs... clearly these guys can coach. Do we miss our OC? that is yet to be seen - will take 2 years just like it will take 2/3 years to see Conklin recruiting.

    Still, our D has Staggs and Hendrix is an OL genius - that's why Air Force hired him from Furman. We are just in a trough of players right now. To wit, he have Roberts a 'serviceable' senior QB and then no QB on the roster except for FR that Hendrix brought in. It happens..

    But I see strength in Hendrix recruiting - Hope is a freshman and leads FCS in sacks (or did). McKoy is a sophomore and is our best LB. Reynard Ellis (transferred) was at LB and was on the Jerry Rice List for best freshman in the nation. - so Hendrix brought in two superstars at LB and a freaky sack bandit. Others - "Dejuan Bell (true Fr) fashioned quite aperformance in the Paladins’ 44-38 victory over Western Carolina on Sept. 29, returning a kickoff97 yards for a touchdown and also collecting a 45-yard touchdown reception. Bell, who finishedthe game with 208 all-purpose yards, was named SoCon Special Teams Player of the Week" .. Wynn true Sophomore seems a speedy guy . Burnette is a nice receiver and true sophomore

    So we have seen Hendrix can recruit... and last year saw he can coach - so that's all very encouraging ! I do hope Cronic as OC leaving doesn't hurt. That is what FU has to watch. Wofford has to watch Conklin's recruiting and ability to transition from DC to HC - sometimes it works.. sometimes not. Conklin has a lot of talent to work with this year. Not sure how many are seniors.??
    I think as fans we need to be patient.

    I think there are a small subset of FCS fans of schools like Delaware, Furman, Richmond, Montana who are probably more antsy than most to "get things right." Fans of those schools remember vividly winning and being among the premier programs in the country.

    Furman fans, in particular, got excited about where the team was heading last year. Perhaps our fan base glossed over some concerns like we are still a really young football team (particularly on offense), have a guy that has never been a college coordinator calling the plays, and lack experience at the two most key positions on the field (QB and ILB).

    I like the direction Furman is heading. I like the offense. I like the defense. I like the recruiting. At some point, guys just have to step up to the next level. I see a group that needs to grow up some out there. Once things start to click, though, I think it will be fun to watch.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  10. #130

    Re: Southern Conference Week 7 Power Rankings/Pick 'Em.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    I think as fans we need to be patient.

    I think there are a small subset of FCS fans of schools like Delaware, Furman, Richmond, Montana who are probably more antsy than most to "get things right." Fans of those schools remember vividly winning and being among the premier programs in the country.

    Furman fans, in particular, got excited about where the team was heading last year. Perhaps our fan base glossed over some concerns like we are still a really young football team (particularly on offense), have a guy that has never been a college coordinator calling the plays, and lack experience at the two most key positions on the field (QB and ILB).

    I like the direction Furman is heading. I like the offense. I like the defense. I like the recruiting. At some point, guys just have to step up to the next level. I see a group that needs to grow up some out there. Once things start to click, though, I think it will be fun to watch.
    I liked Coach Ayers, I also like Eric Nash former OL coach now the AD at my wife's school plus Coach Wheeler who is now the head football coach there too. My point, Wofford had tremendous consistency at head coach for three decades - hard to believe When Ayers started Satterfield was the HC for the Dins. As of 2018 Furman has had five head coaches since 1988, the Terriers as of this season now are on their second in 30 years. Impressive!!! Conklin, may never miss a beat as the Terriers HC, but if successful will he stay or take a bigger paycheck (Bobby Johnson).

    Reality is Hendrix and staff are basically rebuilding the program, we're young, we have talent, but with that youth comes a lack of leadership and confidence. I'll ditto what Bear said… I heard that Hendrix chewed tail over the Elon performance. Maybe we get out tails clipped tomorrow, I expect Furman to be ready and give it they're all.

    As far as recruiting goes… it's great to see Furman with some 2019 commits with lofty accolades, Jumper #2 OL, and Barton #4 DL.

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