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  1. #21
    AGS FCS Champion Pard4Life's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    This topic came up on the Lafayette board, and here is my argument:

    1) Ivy League offering grants at every school allowed them to access a greater pool of players. Columbia and Cornell no longer being on Georgetown's level has affected recruiting

    2) As a result, Ivy has raised their competitive and national profile. Vastly different vs 5-10 years ago. Kids turn down P5 FBS offers to play at HYP.

    3) Rise of the NEC: league offers a full allotment of scholarships without as competitive academic standards. Our pool of recruits has been narrowed.

    4) Financial crisis: don't underestimate this reason... aid was reallocated from LC football for one.... even though it was restored, that took 5+ years. Not sure what happened at other schools but culture is impacted.

    5) Rewinding here: major argument for PL scholarships was that we could grab Ivy recruits because they could offer more generous aid packages. That has been negated: Ivy's can offer as good packages as full scholarships if your family is not wealthy

    6) Coaching is a more tactical issue... let's face it our collective talent is not great

    7) Colgate is the outlier. Why?

    8) Really surprised Lehigh is also not an outlier here.

  2. #22
    AGS FCS Champion RichH2's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Here is my simplistic, holistic view of this:

    It’s coaching (and its byproduct, recruiting). The PL is a group of outstanding academic schools…but we’re not the Ivy League, nor will we be. Even as far back as the early 2000’s, we knew that if H/Y/P and Penn wanted one of our recruits, we had very little chance of winning that recruiting battle. Most students are NOT picking Lehigh over Princeton (for example) if they are admitted to both schools and the cost is the same.

    I see that as part of the challenge today – we should not even try to compete with them for recruits. With scholarships, our best bet is to convince the higher end academic CAA/NEC/ NATIONAL kid (no academic disrespect meant to those programs) to take a PL scholarship because of the academic benefits the PL schools have. Yes, it is hard work, but it can be done. Of course, the AI may come into play here. It may need to be massaged a bit – if not, we will just be competing with the NESCAC schools for glorified D3 recruits….
    Overall the last 3 years the main competition for reccruits has been the Academies,CAA and G5 FBS. There is still some H2Hs with the Ivies but much less than pre scholarship.
    Bill is right I think with our AI. As it stands now the PL low band is too restrictive unnecessarily so, In any event the PL needs to address its caps,redshirting and AI if it wants to stay a D1 conference and not be a laughingstock.

  3. #23
    FCS Champion Sader87's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Each school is different to an extent with regards to football but we're all collectively in this mess together.

    Patriot League (nee Colonial League) football basically gutted the Holy Cross football program. We went from being a near perennial Top 10 FCS program to an FCS also-ran in very short order.

    HC never really found its footing in the non-scholarship-era of PL football, aside from the window of the Dom Randolph years in the late aughts.

    With the return of scholarships, improvement in facilities, scheduling marquee FBS games etc....the hope is/was that we could return to some semblance of where the program was in the 1980s.

    Still very much a "work in progress" on Mt St James....early returns aren't exactly great but it is very early.

    Changed FCS landscape since say 1986...Holy Cross then often beat out the Ancient VIII for recruits. I personally know a few who chose to go to HC then instead of Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth due to HC giving a full scholarship vs the Ivy financial aid package, the chance to play Army and BC, be part of a winning program etc etc As others have noted here, we really no longer have that card to play with regard to beating out the Ivies for recruits.

    The inability to red-shirt, except for medical purposes, is another major problem. This wasn't as de rigueur at the FCS level back in the 80s as it is now. You could see the difference this made yesterday when we played UNH who regularly red-shirt. We (PL teams) are always going to be up against it when that is the case.

    The problem moving forward though seems to be that we are 7 programs with many different agendas with regards to where football fits inside their institution.

  4. #24
    AGS FCS Champion TheValleyRaider's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
    Colgate should be 5-1 if they had played their game with Furman.
    Oh, okay
    #8, 10-2 (6-0)
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    Let's Go 'Gate!

  5. #25

    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Hey West Coast...seems like our honorable friends from the PL are avoiding your question.

  6. #26
    Top FCS Ruler ccd494's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Patriot League and Ivy League switch to both playing 100% insular schedules like the NESCAC. Then the two champions meet in Yankee Stadium for some bowl.

  7. #27
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Mocs123 View Post
    Colgate should be 5-1 if they had played their game with Furman.
    Too bad we'll never find out; Colgate will get into the 2nd round of the playoffs, Furman will stay home.
    "Knowledge is Good" Emil Faber

  8. #28
    FCS Champion WestCoastAggie's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Peachy Carnahan View Post
    Hey West Coast...seems like our honorable friends from the PL are avoiding your question.
    Not here for the MEAC/HBCU hijack I guess.

    In all seriousness, these same questions are being asked in multiple leagues. There's a widening gap of the "have's and have nots" in the FCS-World. You can see who's clearly investing into their programs and who isn't. It's not just the PL either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ccd494 View Post
    Patriot League and Ivy League switch to both playing 100% insular schedules like the NESCAC. Then the two champions meet in Yankee Stadium for some bowl.
    Hey!

  9. #29
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastAggie View Post
    Not here for the MEAC/HBCU hijack I guess.

    In all seriousness, these same questions are being asked in multiple leagues. There's a widening gap of the "have's and have nots" in the FCS-World. You can see who's clearly investing into their programs and who isn't. It's not just the PL either.

    Hey!
    I think the PL and MEAC are fairly comparable. One dominant team and a bunch of others that are either inconsistent, or not competitive outside the conference.
    - - Updated - -
    "Knowledge is Good" Emil Faber

  10. #30
    First Class FCS Ruler Bill's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by KPSUL View Post
    I think the PL and MEAC are fairly comparable. One dominant team and a bunch of others that are either inconsistent, or not competitive outside the conference.
    - - Updated - -
    This year - perhaps...historically, no. Not yet.
    “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”


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