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  1. #11
    FCS Champion WestCoastAggie's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Who's worse at the current moment; the MEAC or Patriot League?

  2. #12
    First Class FCS Ruler Mocs123's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Colgate should be 5-1 if they had played their game with Furman.

  3. #13
    On the Breast of Old South Mountain
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    PL needs to determine IF it wants to remain in the FCS picture. If so, then they need to fund accordingly. However, as pointed out by LFN, we are so far behind the curve in allocating such funds for football, that I seriously doubt the Presidents are of a mind to make such a drastic commitment. Hence,either go D-II or drop the sport and let each school fend for itself on what playground they want to play.
    LEHIGH WILL SHINE TONIGHT, LEHIGH WILL SHINE!
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  4. #14
    AGS FCS Champion RichH2's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by LehighU11 View Post
    Coaching has been a significant issue across the PL for struggling programs. Coaches have either become complacent and/or outstayed their welcome at Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, and arguably Bucknell. In the cases of Coen and Tavani, neither has been willing to take accountability for their failure to compete, let alone succeed, as head coach.

    This quote from Andy Coen to the Morning Call following yesterday's debacle at Princeton is very telling:
    “They’re just a better football team than we are, clearly,” LU coach Andy Coen said. “And there are reasons why they are. When you look out and their 3s [third-string players] are beating our 1s [starters], that pretty much says it all. Give me the scholarship money that the Ivies give that they say don’t, but they do, then it would be a whole different look.”

    That statement from Coen makes it clear that he is deflecting blame to everyone but himself. Before yesterday, Lehigh was 5-1 against Princeton dating back to 2010. The last meeting, in 2016, Lehigh won 42-28. Coen suddenly wants people to believe that Princeton and the Ivies have surpassed Lehigh to that extent in 2 years? I don't think so. The primary issue is coaching. Lehigh should follow Holy Cross' lead from 2017 and make a mid-season change at the helm ASAP.
    For individual teams coaching is indeed a major factor. Lehigh in particular. Yes 11 over the last 2-3 years Ivies have passed the PL by, us also. While Andy was correct in noting the current distance between Ivies and PL, his defense of his staff for doing a "great" job is ridiculous. Obvious that Tigers outclassed Lehigh yesterday but that does not excuse missed tackles,dropped passes etc or giving up in the 3rd period. That is on our team and coaches. Throwing all the blame onto the players and Princeton and praising the coaches is asinine at best.

  5. #15
    First Class FCS Ruler Bill's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by ngineer View Post
    . Hence,either go D-II or drop the sport and let each school fend for itself on what playground they want to play.
    ngineer, you know that dropping football to a lower division simply isn't possible or permissible. Of course, they could drop football altogether, but that's a long, long way off.
    “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”


  6. #16
    Top FCS Advocate Neighbor2's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by ngineer View Post
    PL needs to determine IF it wants to remain in the FCS picture. If so, then they need to fund accordingly. However, as pointed out by LFN, we are so far behind the curve in allocating such funds for football, that I seriously doubt the Presidents are of a mind to make such a drastic commitment. Hence,either go D-II or drop the sport and let each school fend for itself on what playground they want to play.

    Your assessments are always very good, ngineer!

    I'm not sure there is consensus in this league, nor the will, to accept real responsibility for competitive FCS success outside the league. I agree, it's time to drop football as a Patriot League sport and allow teams to participate at whatever level they choose.

    What's in place now is 'kinda stupid, frankly.

  7. #17
    AGS FCS Champion
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by LehighU11 View Post
    Coaching has been a significant issue across the PL for struggling programs. Coaches have either become complacent and/or outstayed their welcome at Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, and arguably Bucknell. In the cases of Coen and Tavani, neither has been willing to take accountability for their failure to compete, let alone succeed, as head coach.

    This quote from Andy Coen to the Morning Call following yesterday's debacle at Princeton is very telling:
    “They’re just a better football team than we are, clearly,” LU coach Andy Coen said. “And there are reasons why they are. When you look out and their 3s [third-string players] are beating our 1s [starters], that pretty much says it all. Give me the scholarship money that the Ivies give that they say don’t, but they do, then it would be a whole different look.”

    That statement from Coen makes it clear that he is deflecting blame to everyone but himself. Before yesterday, Lehigh was 5-1 against Princeton dating back to 2010. The last meeting, in 2016, Lehigh won 42-28. Coen suddenly wants people to believe that Princeton and the Ivies have surpassed Lehigh to that extent in 2 years? I don't think so. The primary issue is coaching. Lehigh should follow Holy Cross' lead from 2017 and make a mid-season change at the helm ASAP.
    The top Ivies have always been good! Lehigh had to deal with Top 15 Penn teams in the the early 2000's. The 2002 and 2003 Penn squads that beat Lehigh were very good! As were the Ryan Fitzpatrick/Clifton Dawson Harvard teams! Princeton is darn good but they're not 59 points better than Lehigh!! Penn nearly blew their game against NEC Sacred Heart yesterday. Lehigh is simply playing bad football. These excuses that Lehigh or the PL can no longer compete with the IL is absurd. Lehigh needs to either commit to the program or go in another direction all together.
    Temple Alum By Choice, Lehigh Sports Fan By Blood

  8. #18
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    LFN,

    I just went and reviewed endowment information...and I almost threw up. Some quick math reveals that if you add up the ENTIRE football playing endowments of the PL, they fall somewhere between Cornell at $6.8 billion and Columbia at $10 billion (but much closer to Cornell). What I didn't realize is how far the big three have pulled ahead of everyone else. Those schools literally don't need to charge tuition.
    Malcom Gladwell has a podcast called Revisionist History and did an episode on endowments in higher education and how the rich just keep getting richer. The top ones in the Ivy League could essentially never charge tuition again for any student ever and still be increasing the endowment every year from investment gains. And people keep giving them huge donations.

    What does a $10M donation mean to Harvard?...not much...a drop in the bucket.

    What would the same donation mean to any number of other schools across the country?...huge...they'd get a building named after them.


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  9. #19
    First Class FCS Ruler Bill's Avatar
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Here is my simplistic, holistic view of this:

    It’s coaching (and its byproduct, recruiting). The PL is a group of outstanding academic schools…but we’re not the Ivy League, nor will we be. Even as far back as the early 2000’s, we knew that if H/Y/P and Penn wanted one of our recruits, we had very little chance of winning that recruiting battle. Most students are NOT picking Lehigh over Princeton (for example) if they are admitted to both schools and the cost is the same.

    I see that as part of the challenge today – we should not even try to compete with them for recruits. With scholarships, our best bet is to convince the higher end academic CAA/NEC/ NATIONAL kid (no academic disrespect meant to those programs) to take a PL scholarship because of the academic benefits the PL schools have. Yes, it is hard work, but it can be done. Of course, the AI may come into play here. It may need to be massaged a bit – if not, we will just be competing with the NESCAC schools for glorified D3 recruits….
    “If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.”


  10. #20
    AGS FCS Champion
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    Re: What's Wrong With the Patriot League

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Here is my simplistic, holistic view of this:

    It’s coaching (and its byproduct, recruiting). The PL is a group of outstanding academic schools…but we’re not the Ivy League, nor will we be. Even as far back as the early 2000’s, we knew that if H/Y/P and Penn wanted one of our recruits, we had very little chance of winning that recruiting battle. Most students are NOT picking Lehigh over Princeton (for example) if they are admitted to both schools and the cost is the same.

    I see that as part of the challenge today – we should not even try to compete with them for recruits. With scholarships, our best bet is to convince the higher end academic CAA/NEC/ NATIONAL kid (no academic disrespect meant to those programs) to take a PL scholarship because of the academic benefits the PL schools have. Yes, it is hard work, but it can be done. Of course, the AI may come into play here. It may need to be massaged a bit – if not, we will just be competing with the NESCAC schools for glorified D3 recruits….
    I completely agree! Who cares about winning head to head recruiting battles with Ivies?! The PL has been losing some, if not most, of those recruiting battles for as long as I can remember. The key is finding your niche' and win some recruiting wars against the CAA teams along with some of the lower tier G5 and P5 programs. The league has to loosen some of these restrictions.
    Temple Alum By Choice, Lehigh Sports Fan By Blood

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