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  1. #21
    FCS Master Milktruck74's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandlapper Spike View Post
    The Big Sky has a few matchups this year between league teams that aren't conference games. I guess that is the nature of having rivalries within a super-sized conference.

    It isn't just the Big Sky. Wake Forest and North Carolina weren't scheduled to meet in ACC play between 2015 and 2022, so the two schools scheduled a couple of games that won't count as conference games (in 2019 and 2021).

    I guess I understand, but....they don't count toward conference standings, but they shouldn't be considered OOC games....then again, who determines that, and what does it matter? Ehhhhhh....
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  2. #22
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milktruck74 View Post
    I guess I understand, but....they don't count toward conference standings, but they shouldn't be considered OOC games....then again, who determines that, and what does it matter? Ehhhhhh....
    I guess I always thought it was due to travel costs. I suppose it is cheaper for some of them to play each other rather than to fly to the east coast. Since some teams have real OOC games, those that didn't get real OOC opponents and have play a conf team shouldn't be penalized or benefit from losing or winning a game against a conf opponent that might affect the conf championship race. Just guessing as I am not deep into Big Sky policy.

  3. #23
    Master FCS Advocate VandalBasher's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    These games might not count toward conference standings but they are equally as important to playoff possibilities and Top 25 rankings.

    But, I think it is hookie as well. When I was analyzing the schedules, I saw that some teams have a nine game BSC schedule and others an eight. I wasn't aware you could schedule in conference as OOC.


    Cal Poly: @ North Dakota State, vs. Weber State, vs. Brown.
    Northern Arizona: @ Texas-El Paso (FBS), vs. Eastern Washington, @ Missouri State.
    Northern Colorado: vs. McNeese, @ South Dakota, vs. Sacramento State.

  4. #24
    I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK dbackjon's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    You are obviously in the group that doesn't remember the SoCon putting a team in the national title game nearly every year for 20 years.

    Last Big Sky Team in the NC: 2010 EWU (WON) (also 2008+2009 - both Montana)
    Last SoCon team in the NC: 2007 App (Won)
    Last CURRENT SoCon team in the NC: 2001 Furman (LOST to Montana)

  5. #25
    I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK dbackjon's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Last Big Sky Team in the Semi's: 2016 EWU
    Last SoCon Team in the Semi's: 2012 GaSo
    Last Current SoCon Team in Semi's: 2005 Furman

    In that same time frame, 7 Big Sky Teams made the Semi's.

  6. #26
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbackjon View Post
    Last Big Sky Team in the Semi's: 2016 EWU
    Last SoCon Team in the Semi's: 2012 GaSo
    Last Current SoCon Team in Semi's: 2005 Furman

    In that same time frame, 7 Big Sky Teams made the Semi's.
    I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

    In 2013 the SoCon lost two historically powerful programs. Every team that advanced in the post-season after 2012 did so without facing arguably the two greatest FCS programs in history, Georgia Southern and App State. Their loss, while anticipated, created a major adjustment period for the Southern Conference. The conference is just now getting its feet again.

    It would be similar to Eastern Washington and Montana simply leaving the Big Sky in the same season. Or Delaware and James Madison leaving the CAA. There is going to be an unavoidable transition.

    If you look at the big musical chairs that happened over the last few years Division 1 football, the SoCon was hit the hardest. The Big Sky has not lost a transititioning team since 1996 (Boise State). The CAA lost UMass and essentially two startups (Ga State and ODU). Missouri Valley lost only Western Kentucky. Southland lost only Texas State.

    No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  7. #27
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    None of that is to say the SoCon is on some sort of high ground.

    Our leading program right now, Samford, needs to start carrying its own water, stop scheduling putrid D2 teams, and win some playoff games.

    There are plenty of chances for big out of conference wins that will help elevate the national profile. That's on the conference teams, though. At some point, you gotta go out and win football games and definitely prove that your conference is "back."

    Unfortunately, I think the SoCon is probably even enough across the board that we may cannibalize ourselves before getting too deep into the season. That will probably mean our teams are on the road in the post season and having to play one another in the second round. The best cure for that is to win our ooc games and for our leading programs to win their conference games.
    FU all the time.

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  8. #28
    I'm a Lumberjack and I'm OK dbackjon's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

    In 2013 the SoCon lost two historically powerful programs. Every team that advanced in the post-season after 2012 did so without facing arguably the two greatest FCS programs in history, Georgia Southern and App State. Their loss, while anticipated, created a major adjustment period for the Southern Conference. The conference is just now getting its feet again.

    It would be similar to Eastern Washington and Montana simply leaving the Big Sky in the same season. Or Delaware and James Madison leaving the CAA. There is going to be an unavoidable transition.

    If you look at the big musical chairs that happened over the last few years Division 1 football, the SoCon was hit the hardest. The Big Sky has not lost a transititioning team since 1996 (Boise State). The CAA lost UMass and essentially two startups (Ga State and ODU). Missouri Valley lost only Western Kentucky. Southland lost only Texas State.

    No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.

    I actually agree - just was a counter to the statement about how often the SoCon was hit.

    As for realignment hitting hard, recently SoCon yes. But in the 90's it was the Big Sky hit hard by their three most consistent top teams leaving - Nevada, Boise and Idaho.

  9. #29
    FCS Expert FUBeAR's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    So...according to some of the Teams’ websites in the BSC, their 2018 games with North Dakota count as BSC Conference games even though North Dakota is not a Member of the BSC and they have 2018 games showing with other Teams that ARE Members of the BSC that do not count as BSC Conference games. Does this make sense to anyone?

    As we can tell from some of the recent posts in this thread, trying to assess a Conference A’s strength relative to Conference B’s by using historical Playoff results data can be greatly skewed by the timeframe selected. Head-to-Head is a far better assessment tool and the only one I can recall is Chattanooga absolutely THUMPING Weber 45-14 in 2016. As we know though, due to regionalization in the Playoffs (and generally with regular season schedules), we have very few Head-to Head comparisons between the 2 Conferences at issue in this discussion. The SoCon has been cannibalistic in Round 2 games & had some very close 2nd & 3rd losses to SemiFinalists & Finalists (as Weber did last year) recently, but, alas, they have not, recently, made it to the Semi’s. Other than EWU’s Nice runs in 2016 & 2013, I just don’t see where any other BSC has shined recently in the Playoffs with the Weber exception already noted. I do see 2 embarrassing 1st round home losses to non-scholarship Teams in the past 2 years by highly-touted BSC Teams.

    So, if I’m being completely honest, I don’t think a legitimate ‘call’ can be made which of these 2 conferences is stronger in 2018...yet.

    Which brings me back to the 1st paragraph. I think 2018 OOC success (or lack of) during the regular season will be the only reasonable way to evaluate Teams from these Conferences as At-large Playoff berths are being determined - not how many Championships Furman, Georgia Southern, and App State won in the past AND also NOT how EWU did in the 2013 Playoffs. And with the ‘mess’ that I mentioned in the 1st paragraph, I think only the “TRUE” OOC contests (which also excludes the games vs. NDak) for BSC Teams should be considered for this purpose; otherwise there is the distinct risk of using circular logic or confirmation bias to make those assessments.

    Most, if not all, of the Teams in both Conferences have competitive OOC schedules. I’ll wait to evaluate those games before stating my case that the SoCon should actually have 5 Teams in the Playoffs in 2018 or maybe only 2 and/or the BSC should have 5 or even 6...or maybe only 2...or even 1. Of course, those numbers are also dependent upon how the MVFC and the CAA fare out of conference, and to a lesser extent the SLC & the OVC. All the rest are 1 bid leagues, IMO.

    Fun discussion, but the right answer is...

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  10. #30
    FCS Master F'N Hawks's Avatar
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    Re: Big Sky or SoCon? Which Conference is Better Positioned for 2018?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    I just don't necessarily think history is a predictor on this. In fact, I think there is a huge footnote.

    No conference was hit harder by realignment at the FCS level than the SoCon (possible exception: Big South). I just don't buy the "when was the last time they were in the semis" argument. Let's take two power house programs out of everyone else's conference and see how far their teams get in the next few years.
    Right. Which is why they are not as good as the Big Sky and no longer a power.
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