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  1. #241
    First Class FCS Ruler JacksFan40's Avatar
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Yote 53 View Post
    Or vice versa if USD were to get an offer to move somewhere else. What am I talking about? That's already happened. USD received an invite to the Big Sky and were set to leave the Summit. A few calls here and there, a little pressure applied here and there, and USD stays in the Summit and gains entry into the MVFC.

    The 4 schools are now linked and I don't see one of them breaking away very easily. It would have to be for something so big it is a no-brainer. Competitive balance will keep one school from running too far ahead of the others. Even given NDSU's football success the Bison have still lost to both USD and SDSU in recent years.
    USD would’ve ended up like UND in the Big Sky. Crippled due to the costs of traveling. When the UxD’s moved up to D1 this was inevitable. The Dakota’s aren’t big enough population wise for 2 teams in each state, let alone SD having 3 all within about 2-3 hours of each other. A West River D1 who plays in the Big Sky would’ve worked nicely. But Black Hills State and SD Mines aren’t good or big enough for D1.

  2. #242
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by JacksFan40 View Post
    Throw in Augie and you may as well create an all Dakota conference. Throw in the other D2ís like Sioux Falls and Minot State for good measure.
    If you want stability in the summit the best/only way is to take schools that are close together to keep travel down (due to schools youíd attract being smaller and lower budget) with realistic aspirations and understanding of where they fit in the D1 world. Conferences like the WAC and Summit become unstable when members have significantly different ideas (and misunderstandings) of where they fit.

    Schools like Augie, MSU Mankato, Sioux Falls, UNO, UMKC, etc... would give that. Recreate the NCC at the D1 level and buy the name from the D2 conference


    SDSU
    USD
    NDSU
    UND
    Augie
    Sioux Falls
    MSU Mankato
    Southwest Minnesota State
    St Cloud State
    MSU Morehead

    It makes being D1 worthless and there will be zero talent for anyone to recruit but youíll get the stability your craving. Youíll get and all sports conference (including football), youíll get rivalries, and itís literally everything Iíve heard NDSU fans like BF02 ask for.






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    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  3. #243
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Or you can take the realistic approach for stability and form

    UND
    NDSU
    SDSU
    Augie
    USD
    UNO
    UMKC
    ORU
    WIU
    IPFW
    Denver

    And try to poach UWM and/or UWGB for extra protection if anything happens with IPFW, Denver or WIU.


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    Playoff records of teams I follow since 1991:Twins: 6-22 (.214)
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    Combined 75-125 (.375) 0 Titles
    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  4. #244
    AGS FCS Expert Bisonator's Avatar
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Lots of the same old same old hand wringing and people calling the imminent collapse of the Summit from the usual suspects.

    The Summit isn't going anywhere soon and neither are the Dakota's. With the right adds it could be a solid mid-major league. Hopefully Douple does the right things and doesn't over react and listen to the sky is falling idiots on message boards.

    There are big changes coming sooner or later to the NCAA. The G5 cannot continue to hemorrhage money while trying to be the P5's little brother. The MWC losing the Las Vegas bowl is going to open more eyes to the inevitable.

  5. #245
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bisonator View Post
    Lots of the same old same old hand wringing and people calling the imminent collapse of the Summit from the usual suspects.

    The Summit isn't going anywhere soon and neither are the Dakota's. With the right adds it could be a solid mid-major league. Hopefully Douple does the right things and doesn't over react and listen to the sky is falling idiots on message boards.

    There are big changes coming sooner or later to the NCAA. The G5 cannot continue to hemorrhage money while trying to be the P5's little brother. The MWC losing the Las Vegas bowl is going to open more eyes to the inevitable.
    No one is calling for its collapse. You can either strengthen and add or you can stay as you are (which is already needing multiple waivers from the NCAA to not lose auto qualifier status because you donít meet multiple requirements for keeping an AQ).

    When looking at alignment there are a few realistic options. The reality is IPFW wants out and likely ends up in the HL in a year or two. That only gives you 5 baseball schools. To maintain AQ status you need 6. Losing the baseball AW also drops the summit below total number of sports that meet AQ status - which causes all AQs to disappear - and thus NCAA tournament money. UND dropped baseball so they donít help you out in the stability play. Augie helps with baseball and buffers IPFW.

    From a basketball standpoint you have 8 members, which means just 14 conference games. Thatís 16 OOC games to schedule. Thatís tough. The Big 10 is going to a 20 game schedule so 2 games are lost from every B10 school for OOC open dates. You get to 10 schools and you keep your double round robin and cut OOC games to 12. Thatís a big difference and makes scheduling dates and filling a schedule easier. Thatís where UMKC comes in. Augie and UMKC give you 10.

    The extra option is to be aggressive and keep the HL and WAC from potentially poaching your members. UWM wants out of the HL. UWM has baseball. Going to 11 is a decent number. You can stick with 18 conference MBB games and play with RPI numbers or go to 20 game full double round robin and have only 10 OOC dates to worry about - ~4 of which are taken care of by your MTE. Itís how many would like to see the MVC go with adding Murray.


    Itís not about predicting its demise. Itís about taking an actual, realistic, look at options...especially with Augie involved. I canít imagine the Summit would be content with 9 for its membership number. Thatís an odd place to sit, but better than 8 I guess.

    And remember, itís better for the MVFC for a healthy summit and MVC. The MVFC could survive if the Summit schools ended up having to split for whatever reason, but it wouldnít be idea for anyone.

    The reality is the Dakotas donít have a home outside of the summit. So itís either take steps to make sure that home is stronger or just sit back and be forced to play reaction damage control mode. Itís the same reason MVC fans arenít real happy the admins are going ďweíre good with 10 even though we have schools than want in and could get to 12Ē


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    Combined 75-125 (.375) 0 Titles
    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  6. #246
    AGS FCS Champion Laker's Avatar
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by clenz View Post

    The extra option is to be aggressive and keep the HL and WAC from potentially poaching your members. UWM wants out of the HL. UWM has baseball. Going to 11 is a decent number. You can stick with 18 conference MBB games and play with RPI numbers or go to 20 game full double round robin and have only 10 OOC dates to worry about - ~4 of which are taken care of by your MTE. It’s how many would like to see the MVC go with adding Murray.
    Why does UWM want out of the HL? I would think they have a natural travel partner in UWGB.
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  7. #247
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by Laker View Post
    Why does UWM want out of the HL? I would think they have a natural travel partner in UWGB.
    From what Iíve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.

    The league office (and to be honest everyone, including UWM fans and alumni) feel the athletic department at UWM is a complete and unmitigated disaster (and it is). Firing successful coaches. Hiring people based on nepotism, doing things to intentionally harm programs so the coach can be fired for not succeeding, budget issues, so and and so on. HL feels UWM is stepping out of line and putting unwarranted negative PR on the conference to spin it away from the AD.

    UWM would also make a natural travel partner for WIU or IPFW. Sure itís further than GB, but based on current SL membership it would work.

    UWM is interesting in that they have the facilities, and potential, to be something pretty special at the MM level. They are just a disaster and no one is sure how they can actually correct anything. Their limiting factor is that they are about 27 feet from Marquette and UW-Madison is a thing. If they find ďtheir placeĒ and accept what they can grow into theyíd be relatively solid.

    They might not fit the ďwonít look for a bigger homeĒ later stability mold, but there is t anywhere that is going to poach them if they leave the HL. They wonít go back there. The MVC doesnít want them.


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    Playoff records of teams I follow since 1991:Twins: 6-22 (.214)
    UNI: 20-16 (.556)Vikings: 7-14 (.333)Wolves: 17-30 (.362)Wild: 25-43 (.367)
    Combined 75-125 (.375) 0 Titles
    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  8. #248
    FCS Expert WestCoastAggie's Avatar
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by clenz View Post
    From what I’ve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.

    The league office (and to be honest everyone, including UWM fans and alumni) feel the athletic department at UWM is a complete and unmitigated disaster (and it is). Firing successful coaches. Hiring people based on nepotism, doing things to intentionally harm programs so the coach can be fired for not succeeding, budget issues, so and and so on. HL feels UWM is stepping out of line and putting unwarranted negative PR on the conference to spin it away from the AD.

    UWM would also make a natural travel partner for WIU or IPFW. Sure it’s further than GB, but based on current SL membership it would work.

    UWM is interesting in that they have the facilities, and potential, to be something pretty special at the MM level. They are just a disaster and no one is sure how they can actually correct anything. Their limiting factor is that they are about 27 feet from Marquette and UW-Madison is a thing. If they find “their place” and accept what they can grow into they’d be relatively solid.

    They might not fit the “won’t look for a bigger home” later stability mold, but there is t anywhere that is going to poach them if they leave the HL. They won’t go back there. The MVC doesn’t want them.


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    Complete sidetone: UW-M heading over to the Summit with UMKC would clear the way for Murray State to join the MVC. Those Racers really want that conference, despite the strain on football.

  9. #249
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastAggie View Post
    Complete sidetone: UW-M heading over to the Summit with UMKC would clear the way for Murray State to join the MVC. Those Racers really want that conference, despite the strain on football.
    Iím not sure how that would clear the way unless your talking domino effect.

    But yes. Murray wants the MVC badly. The MVC mostly wants Murray but there are things that need to be cleared and cleaned up to make sure itís a move that happens. Iíd look for 2020-2021 to be the earliest it happens.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Playoff records of teams I follow since 1991:Twins: 6-22 (.214)
    UNI: 20-16 (.556)Vikings: 7-14 (.333)Wolves: 17-30 (.362)Wild: 25-43 (.367)
    Combined 75-125 (.375) 0 Titles
    Yet people wonder why I'm jaded about sports....

  10. #250
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    Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer

    Quote Originally Posted by clenz View Post
    From what I’ve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.
    Aw sweet...let's take all three that are in the HL. Let the Horizon be IN/MI, Summit can take Milwaukee, Green Bay, and UIC...Horizon League can have Fort Wayne. We'll add UMKC and be at 12 teams.
    Travel partners of Milwaukee/Green Bay, UIC/WIU, UMKC/Oral Bob, and whatever the Dakotas+Omaha and Denver are doing.

    Not that I think this is at all likely, but it's fun to dream, right
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