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  1. #11
    FCS Ruler Rabbit3467's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    I find this hire so weird. I've been in Montana since 2005 and fans were pumped to see hauck go. This screams desperation to me in griz land. Just because you got a little crazy with the stitt hire doesn't mean you should go back in time. It's not like hauck won a title, or could win anything after montana. He did good but his best year was another coaches recruits. I kinda feel like the rest of the big sky caught up to Montana and now they are hoping to go back instead of forward, glory days. But, maybe I'm completely wrong.

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  2. #12
    FCS Champion mvemjsunpx's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Quote Originally Posted by KUlawJack View Post
    Can you expound a bit for us that don’t know all the history? NCAA sanctions? What were those? Did Hauck have issues?
    There wasn't ever anything directly tied to Hauck and I have no reason to believe he was involved in NCAA sanctions. My concern with Hauck was more of an "Us against the World" mentality he pushed in his team that seemed to go a bit too far (like, beyond just football)—in other words, a team culture issue.

    The NCAA sanctions mostly stemmed from the so-called "Tasergate" incident when Trumaine Johnson & Gerald Kemp were arrested during a house party a day-or-so after the Griz beat NAU in Flagstaff in 2011. They received free bail money from an extended relative that went outside allowed NCAA rules and also received free legal representation from a Griz-booster law firm (the lawyer was also a relative of an athletic-department employee). Pflugrad & AD Jim O'Day knew about these issues but didn't really do anything about them & appeared to just hope they would go away (Johnson & Kemp continued to play that season). The NCAA then came in and found the usual host of unreported minor violations, in addition to the aforementioned major ones. Also, in a bit of an aside, they apparently found a female assistant AD was banging an athlete (athletes?). As a result, every game after the NAU win from 2011 was vacated in addition to the harmful scholarship penalties. IMO, the Griz probably would've gotten away with a slap on the wrist if Pflugrad & O'Day had been less passive & more proactive.

  3. #13
    Major FCS Ruler Green26's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Quote Originally Posted by mvemjsunpx View Post
    There wasn't ever anything directly tied to Hauck and I have no reason to believe he was involved in NCAA sanctions. My concern with Hauck was more of an "Us against the World" mentality he pushed in his team that seemed to go a bit too far (like, beyond just football)—in other words, a team culture issue.

    The NCAA sanctions mostly stemmed from the so-called "Tasergate" incident when Trumaine Johnson & Gerald Kemp were arrested during a house party a day-or-so after the Griz beat NAU in Flagstaff in 2011. They received free bail money from an extended relative that went outside allowed NCAA rules and also received free legal representation from a Griz-booster law firm (the lawyer was also a relative of an athletic-department employee). Pflugrad & AD Jim O'Day knew about these issues but didn't really do anything about them & appeared to just hope they would go away (Johnson & Kemp continued to play that season). The NCAA then came in and found the usual host of unreported minor violations, in addition to the aforementioned major ones. Also, in a bit of an aside, they apparently found a female assistant AD was banging an athlete (athletes?). As a result, every game after the NAU win from 2011 was vacated in addition to the harmful scholarship penalties. IMO, the Griz probably would've gotten away with a slap on the wrist if Pflugrad & O'Day had been less passive & more proactive.
    Hauck didn't have any ncaa issues while at UM.

    Pflugrad, after being fired along with the AD by the UM president, got thrown a bit under the bus by the president and compliance director, in the ncaa investigation.

    The athletic dept, including the coach and I believe the AD and compliance officer, knew that a Missoula mom of a player, who had been asked in the middle of the night by a friend of hers in CA who was the grandfather of a player, to bail him and his friend Trumaine Johnson out of jail over the taser incident. She put up about $225, the 10%, to a bail bondsman the night (3 or 4am). The grandfather repaid her a week later, I believe when he saw her at the next game, as he had said he would that night when he asked. This was not reported by UM. The ncaa said the "loan" should have been paid back a few days quicker. The mom was deemed to be a booster.

    The other "big" violation was the legal work for the players by the local law firm. I can't recall if the athletic dept even knew what the legal fee arrangements were. The law firm had explanations for the arrangement. The ncaa deemed the value for the services to be $1,000, or maybe $2,000. A month or two later, the players pled solo to a single misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct and paid a tiny fine.

    These 2 things involved a "failure to monitor" violation. Don't know why it's the coach's job to do this, especially when the compliance officer was also in the loop.

    The matter involving the female employee of the athletic dept. was not a big violation and the ncaa didn't indicate it involved anything sexual. She had cooked some meals for the player at her house and either washed his clothes or allowed him to do that at her house. The player was from out of state and his dad had died the year, and he was supposedly struggling a bit with that.

    Other minor violations involved some families having players over for dinner too many times for home-cooked meals. None of these families were big boosters or even known to the athletic dept. One family knew some players from church.

    UM lost 4 scholarships for 3 years over this, plus some other stuff.

    The ncaa investigation didn't involve anything with regard to the sexual assault stuff. The sexual assault stuff got a lot of press, but at the end of the day, the only thing that stood was a guilty plea by 1 player. No players who retained attorneys to fight the school proceedings were even thrown out of school or otherwise sanctioned. The second kid charged, the qb, was determined to be not guilty in a trial, was never thrown out of school, and never lost his scholarship. Couldn't play the year of his trial.

  4. #14
    Major FCS Ruler Green26's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbit3467 View Post
    I find this hire so weird. I've been in Montana since 2005 and fans were pumped to see hauck go. This screams desperation to me in griz land. Just because you got a little crazy with the stitt hire doesn't mean you should go back in time. It's not like hauck won a title, or could win anything after montana. He did good but his best year was another coaches recruits. I kinda feel like the rest of the big sky caught up to Montana and now they are hoping to go back instead of forward, glory days. But, maybe I'm completely wrong.

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    Most fans were not pumped to see Hauck leave. Only some message board types. The main supporters and boosters of the program liked Hauck, most wanted him re-hired when Stitt was hired, and almost all support him coming back now.

  5. #15
    Major FCS Ruler Green26's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Quote Originally Posted by centennial View Post
    This guy?

    2010 UNLV 211 26 7th
    2011 UNLV 210 16 T6th
    2012 UNLV 211 26 8th
    2013 UNLV 76 53 T3rd (West) L Heart of Dallas
    2014 UNLV 211 17 6th (West)
    The more relevant stats, in his 7 years at UM, are 7 conference championships, a record of something like 80-18, playoffs all 7 years, championship game 3 of 7 years, semifinals 4 years, tons of all-conference players, and more NFL players of any FCS program at the time. No one has been able to win at UNLV, including John Robison who was very successful at USC and was in the NFL, before going to UNLV.

  6. #16
    Major FCS Ruler Green26's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Hauck's team culture was working hard, being tough and physical, never giving up, and winning. Hauck was a tough disciplinarian and hard-ass while at UM. I don't believe he or his team had issues at UNLV, other than not being able to win.

  7. #17
    FCS Champion mvemjsunpx's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Quote Originally Posted by Green26 View Post
    Hauck didn't have any ncaa issues while at UM.

    Pflugrad, after being fired along with the AD by the UM president, got thrown a bit under the bus by the president and compliance director, in the ncaa investigation.

    The athletic dept, including the coach and I believe the AD and compliance officer, knew that a Missoula mom of a player, who had been asked in the middle of the night by a friend of hers in CA who was the grandfather of a player, to bail him and his friend Trumaine Johnson out of jail over the taser incident. She put up about $225, the 10%, to a bail bondsman the night (3 or 4am). The grandfather repaid her a week later, I believe when he saw her at the next game, as he had said he would that night when he asked. This was not reported by UM. The ncaa said the "loan" should have been paid back a few days quicker. The mom was deemed to be a booster.

    The other "big" violation was the legal work for the players by the local law firm. I can't recall if the athletic dept even knew what the legal fee arrangements were. The law firm had explanations for the arrangement. The ncaa deemed the value for the services to be $1,000, or maybe $2,000. A month or two later, the players pled solo to a single misdemeanor charge of disorderly conduct and paid a tiny fine.

    These 2 things involved a "failure to monitor" violation. Don't know why it's the coach's job to do this, especially when the compliance officer was also in the loop.
    Even with these explanations, I think Pflugrad & O'Day (especially O'Day) were overly passive/indecisive/whatever at dealing with these issues. And there isn't really an explanation as to why the pro bono thing didn't get reported. I'm not necessarily defending Engstrom on this, since we don't know why he fired them, but I think it was ultimately good for the team/department that they weren't in charge of anything anymore.


    The matter involving the female employee of the athletic dept. was not a big violation and the ncaa didn't indicate it involved anything sexual. She had cooked some meals for the player at her house and either washed his clothes or allowed him to do that at her house. The player was from out of state and his dad had died the year, and he was supposedly struggling a bit with that.
    This Missoulian article doesn't say it was sexual, but the phrasing from the article/NCAA report definitely implies it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Missoulian
    The investigation also found other NCAA violations, including several by a former assistant athletic director. The administrator became friends with a football player, a relationship that evolved to a “personal level.”

    “During the fall of 2011, the assistant athletic director’s interactions with the student-athlete occurred at the staff member’s home on numerous occasions,” the report says. “During these home visits, the student-athlete received meals, snacks, lodging and laundry services.”

    The ncaa investigation didn't involve anything with regard to the sexual assault stuff. The sexual assault stuff got a lot of press, but at the end of the day, the only thing that stood was a guilty plea by 1 player. No players who retained attorneys to fight the school proceedings were even thrown out of school or otherwise sanctioned. The second kid charged, the qb, was determined to be not guilty in a trial, was never thrown out of school, and never lost his scholarship. Couldn't play the year of his trial.
    Oh, I know. And the way the school treated Jordan Johnson (initially, anyway) was pretty bad. It was pretty clear to me the girl planned on accusing him of rape before she had sex with him. She was borderline stalking him before that.

  8. #18
    Major FCS Ruler ASU33's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    So what's the pulse of Griz Nation about the old coach being back?

  9. #19
    First Class FCS Ruler TennBison's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    Well I guess that Montana is no longer a go to spot in the FCS ranks. For sure, if they were then they could have gotten a much better coach, he has done nothing since he was there last time.

  10. #20
    Major FCS Ruler Green26's Avatar
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    Re: Montana hires Bobby Hauck

    "Even with these explanations, I think Pflugrad & O'Day (especially O'Day) were overly passive/indecisive/whatever at dealing with these issues. And there isn't really an explanation as to why the pro bono thing didn't get reported. I'm not necessarily defending Engstrom on this, since we don't know why he fired them, but I think it was ultimately good for the team/department that they weren't in charge of anything anymore."

    What do you think Pflu/O'Day could or should have done with these issues?

    First, why aren't these issues the job of the compliance officer? Do you think that Pflu, as head coach, should know or research that the mom is a booster and that if she bails out a friend's grandson and his friend, at the request of a grandfather in CA who has called her, very concerned, in the middle of the night, she must be repaid within 2 or 3 days, instead of a week? And is it intuitive to anyone that it is an ncaa issue for a mom to comply with a requests to bail out kids in this situation? This is an extra benefit? Do you think this mom would have not done this for any friend of hers who asked her in this circumstance?

    On the legal fee benefits, do you think it's the job of the head coach and AD, as opposed to the compliance officer, to monitor the payment for legal services? And, in this situation, the law firm, which frequently represented students on a pro bono basis, said that it was representing the players on a contingency fee basis, because they were evaluating and setting up a potential civil lawsuit against the police/city. It is not unusual for a lawyer/law firm in MT to do some legal work on a criminal or other initial part of a matter, when they see a potential bigger contingency fee case/civil suit on the back end. While I assume it is now clear or clearer that the ncaa thinks any free legal services like this is not allowed for players, 10 years ago it was not uncommon for law firms in cities with universities to represent students and athletes on a pro bono basis.

    On the personal relationship between the athletic department employee and the player, I don't believe there's any ncaa problem with having a "personal relationship", so, again, that's not what the ncaa cited as the problem. It was the home-cooked meals and laundry.

    I disagree with you on your view that it was better that O'Day/Pflu weren't in charge. They were both doing a good job. And, the firings are what caused MT football to decline to where it is today. The firings were also very wrongful, even if not in a legal sense. Engstrom was wrong to fire them, and he proved to be so incompetent that he has severely hurt UM. That's why he was eventually fired by the Board of Regents.

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