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  1. #21
    First Class FCS Ruler GodHelpTheBears's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    This may be the only time the Khmer Rouge is ever referenced in a college football context, but I would approach Missouri State with the "year zero" mindset. Essentially, Missouri State football did not exist before now - it would be treated as a newly started program. Literally everything that could be changed would, from the structure of the athletic department, to fundraising approaches, to alumni organization, to the socks the players wear. Coaches out, AD out, ideally the president and everyone on the Board of Governors would be out too, but that wouldn't happen. If another conference were willing to take our program, move there. Good thing we don't have any traditions, don't have to worry about cutting those out.

    I would only support hiring a coach who agrees with this, who would change schemes and turn over the roster as quickly as possible. I'd even support what Bill Callahan did with the alumni at Nebraska, it only failed there because Nebraska's history is an asset. Here, it is a major liability, which is why I support uprooting it to the greatest extent possible.
    The only untenable situation is the one you are in right now. Support the dissolution of football at Missouri State University.

  2. #22
    Major FCS Ruler ASU33's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Mississippi Valley State

    2003 SWAC Eastern Division Champions
    2004 SWAC Eastern Division Champions
    2004 SWAC Conference Champions
    2007 Liberty Bowl Champions(Hail State)
    3x 1st Team All SWAC/ 2007 2nd team All-SEC

    BZ Nupe!

  3. #23
    FCS Expert WestCoastAggie's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Quote Originally Posted by GodHelpTheBears View Post
    Ah, there are breaks at almost every part of the process at Missouri State.


    • We don't have a competent AD. Our President has no interest in replacing him.
    • We make token efforts to fund raise, and money will not be allocated to increase that.
    • We have an "alumni association", but no alumni chapters. From personal experience, their fund raising efforts consist of calling me at 9 pm on a weeknight.
    • We've been losing for so long that we don't know what a competent head coach looks like. As time goes on, Terry Allen looks more and more like a competent coach who just hit our program's low ceiling, he didn't look all that competent at the time because I did not realize how low the ceiling really was back then.


    When it's going on 30 years since even token success in the sport, to me it is time to open a frank dialogue with your community. Does football actually matter at your school? If it does, where are the disconnects? How much money to fix it? Do you have enough money to fix it? Even if you do, is it worth it?
    I'm shocked a school as big as Missouri State doesn't have Alumni Association chapters. Those are essential to getting the message out from Administration to Alumni. I would assume you all would have alumni living in St. Louis, KC and other cities within a few hours of the school.

    It just comes down to organizing everything. You all were looked at by the Sun Belt for expansion. You all have a competent budget to do things where you are currently conference-wise. It just comes down how things are at the top.

    A&T let things get so bad, we had a freshman die during T&C tryouts 7 years ago. At that point, we had to make administrative changes to never let anything like that happen again.

  4. #24
    Major FCS Ruler SU DOG's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Two coaches come to my mind, although I'm sure there are many other examples, that have won in seemingly impossible situations. One is what Jamey Chadwell was recently able to do at Chas. Southern. Talk about a place with few resources. The other is what Terry Bowden was able to do at Samford with VERY little administration support, and with a team had had been FCS for only 3 or so years. His 1991 Bulldogs Team would have been the NC, had the Penguin weather in Youngstown not been such a factor.

  5. #25
    First Class FCS Ruler GodHelpTheBears's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastAggie View Post
    I'm shocked a school as big as Missouri State doesn't have Alumni Association chapters. Those are essential to getting the message out from Administration to Alumni. I would assume you all would have alumni living in St. Louis, KC and other cities within a few hours of the school.

    It just comes down to organizing everything. You all were looked at by the Sun Belt for expansion. You all have a competent budget to do things where you are currently conference-wise. It just comes down how things are at the top.

    A&T let things get so bad, we had a freshman die during T&C tryouts 7 years ago. At that point, we had to make administrative changes to never let anything like that happen again.
    For the longest time, our grads pretty much stayed in southwest Missouri, and the Ozarks are so rural that I don't think there were any group of grads outside Springfield large enough for an alumni chapter system to take root. We do have more alumni in KC and STL now, but probably not as much as you are thinking.

    Instead, something called "MarooNation" formed, which is an umbrella term for alumni events held in various places around the US. The only cities with frequent MarooNation events are Springfield, KC and STL. Cities like Dallas and Chicago only have them once a year, a sign that our presence is too small for "chapter" activity, stuff that happens monthly or more frequently and is more formally organized.
    The only untenable situation is the one you are in right now. Support the dissolution of football at Missouri State University.

  6. #26
    Top FCS Ruler SFA 93's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Texas State back when they were in the SLC.

    Even when we were SLC Champions in 2010 and had a 24 point lead in the 4th quarter, in Nac and Texas State was in last place, we still lost to them.

    We lost to them in 2009 as well when we were SLC Champions.

    The three programs we struggle to beat in football

    Sam Houston State 35-54-2 in the series, lost 6 straight, and 14 of the last 17.
    Texas State 29-56-1 in the series, 6 straight losses, and 7 of the last 9
    Central Arkansas 3-8 in the series and 1-4 in Conway and have lost 4 straight, and 5 of the last 6.
    FB CONFERENCE CHAMPIONS - 1935 1985 1989 1999 2009 2010
    FCS PLAYOFFS - 1988 1989 1993 1995 2009 2010 2014
    NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME - 1989
    WALTER PAYTON AWARD - 2010
    TOTAL SOUTHLAND CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS - 88
    MBB CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIPS - 1931 32 33 34 35 36 40 48 55 64 67 70 71 72 82 83 87 08 09 13 14 15 16
    SLC COMMISSIONER'S CUP - 2010 2012 2015 2016 2017


    AXE'EM JACKS!

  7. #27
    FCS Expert UAalum72's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Surprised nobody mentioned Rhode Island - only two winning seasons in the last 32, and even with good stretches from 1952-57 and 1977-85, a winning percentage of .367 since World War II. But if even St. Francis can build to two straight winning seasons and at least five wins for the three years before that, anybody should be able to. The Red Flash previous to this recent success only had two winning seasons since reviving the program in 1978.
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " - B. Franklin

  8. #28
    Top FCS Ruler Go Green's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Columbia is usually the Ivy's representative in these type of discussions.

  9. #29
    Major FCS Ruler woffordgrad94's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    I would have to say Presbyterian at the FCS level. Hotshot high school coach and PC alum Bobby Bentley found that out. After serving as head coach of high school alma mater Byrnes in Upstate South Carolina and building them into one of the nation's best teams, he thought he'd do the same at PC. After he spent some time at PC and saw what he was up against, he returned to Byrnes. I don't think any coach out there could turn PC into a winner, at least not any that would consider taking the job.

    And of course there's Davidson...

  10. #30
    AGS FCS Champion cx500d's Avatar
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    Re: Are there programs you just can't win at?

    Quote Originally Posted by woffordgrad94 View Post
    I would have to say Presbyterian at the FCS level. Hotshot high school coach and PC alum Bobby Bentley found that out. After serving as head coach of high school alma mater Byrnes in Upstate South Carolina and building them into one of the nation's best teams, he thought he'd do the same at PC. After he spent some time at PC and saw what he was up against, he returned to Byrnes. I don't think any coach out there could turn PC into a winner, at least not any that would consider taking the job.

    And of course there's Davidson...
    Davidson dead last in sagarin.


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