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  1. #11
    AGS FCS Champion Franks Tanks's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    At some point the Patriot (and Georgetown) has to come to the reality that Georgetown is increasingly non-competitive with an NEC budget and an Ivy League admissions policy, either of which are incongruous with today's high-budget PL. Maybe the NEC would be interested in bringing them on, the Ivy less so.

    I really don't see Monmouth as interested in the PL. As Rev. John Brooks famously said, "We have set a course for others to follow. So far, no one has followed."
    There would need to be a bit of desperation and compromise on both sides. Monmouth wound desperately need a league (if the Big South implodes) and the Patriot League wound desperately need a new member. Similar to the situation that brought Towson in as a member years ago.

  2. #12
    FCS Champion aceinthehole's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    At some point the Patriot (and Georgetown) has to come to the reality that Georgetown is increasingly non-competitive with an NEC budget and an Ivy League admissions policy, either of which are incongruous with today's high-budget PL. Maybe the NEC would be interested in bringing them on, the Ivy less so.

    I really don't see Monmouth as interested in the PL. As Rev. John Brooks famously said, "We have set a course for others to follow. So far, no one has followed."
    I can't speak with any authority on the matter, but I feel very comfortable saying that the NEC office would consider it a huge coup to add Georgetown to the NEC in football. I honestly can't think of any downside for the NEC members to extend a football membership invite to Georgetown, however I doubt the interest is mutual from the Hoyas perspective.

    Monmouth presents a different set of issue for the NEC (mostly because of their departure from the league), but why wouldn't MU want to join the Patriot League?

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  3. #13
    Major FCS Advocate Anthony215's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    At some point the Patriot (and Georgetown) has to come to the reality that Georgetown is increasingly non-competitive with an NEC budget and an Ivy League admissions policy, either of which are incongruous with today's high-budget PL. Maybe the NEC would be interested in bringing them on, the Ivy less so.

    I really don't see Monmouth as interested in the PL. As Rev. John Brooks famously said, "We have set a course for others to follow. So far, no one has followed."
    I agree fully that the Patriot League has to put its foot down on Georgetown with either upgrading their scholarships/competitiveness and facilities or boot them out. All of Georgetown other sports are in the Big East so the PL wouldn't be losing anything and it would help their other members SOS by not having a dead weight opponent yearly on the schedule. If they don't successfully land Monmouth why not go after Marist if they are willing to up their scholarship money. Facilities wise they could upgrade their stadium a bit. But they have a good endowment so alumni opening their pockets shouldn't be a big problem

  4. #14
    AGS FCS Champion DFW HOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by aceinthehole View Post
    I can't speak with any authority on the matter, but I feel very comfortable saying that the NEC office would consider it a huge coup to add Georgetown to the NEC in football. I honestly can't think of any downside for the NEC members to extend a football membership invite to Georgetown, however I doubt the interest is mutual from the Hoyas perspective.

    Monmouth presents a different set of issue for the NEC (mostly because of their departure from the league), but why wouldn't MU want to join the Patriot League?
    From 1887 to 1999, Georgetown never had more than three consecutive losing seasons. Since 2000, 15 losing seasons in 16 years with the PL and most haven't been close. (At some point, historical researchers will consider the 2011 standings to be some sort of typo.) How many consecutive losing seasons await them now--five, 10, 20?

    The NEC may not be the best landing--independent status may be just as palatable--but it's worth some dialogue. The PL's use of 60 scholarships AND the Ivy Index chokes off any meaningful recruiting Georgetown can do to compete without grants. Sgarlata can attract the kids in Florida and Texas that wouldn't know Bucknell from Bushwood, but if these same recruits need a 1350 or a 1400 out of 1600 to get in per the league's Harvardian rules, they'll go elsewhere and probably get a free ride to do so.

    The NEC has no such artificial firewall on SAT scores, but there's no star power among the member schools, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony215 View Post
    I agree fully that the Patriot League has to put its foot down on Georgetown with either upgrading their scholarships/competitiveness and facilities or boot them out. All of Georgetown other sports are in the Big East so the PL wouldn't be losing anything and it would help their other members SOS by not having a dead weight opponent yearly on the schedule.
    Georgetown's membership is renewed by the PL every three years. If it's no longer welcome, someone will say so.
    Last edited by DFW HOYA; February 17th, 2017 at 12:18 PM.
    Georgetown: "We play where we do not compete, and compete where we do not play."

  5. #15
    Major FCS Advocate Anthony215's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    From 1887 to 1999, Gerogeown never had more than three consecutive losing seasons. Since 2000, 15 losing seasons in 16 years with the PL and most haven't been close. (At some point, historical researchers will consider the 2011 standings to be some sort of typo.) How many consecutive losing seasons await them now--five, 10, 20?

    The NEC may not be the best landing--independent status may be just as palatable--but it's worth some dialogue. The PL's use of 60 scholarships AND the Ivy Index chokes off any meaningful recruiting Georgetown can do to compete without grants. Sgarlata can attract the kids in Florida and Texas that wouldn't know Bucknell from Bushwood, but if these same recruits need a 1350 or a 1400 out of 1600 to get in per the league's Harvardian rules, they'll go elsewhere and probably get a free ride to do so.

    The NEC has no such artificial firewall on SAT scores, but there's no star power among the member schools, either.
    If the administration wanted to find a way for Georgetown to be competitive in the PL or competitive period they'd find a way to get recruits into the program who could help them win and shed their dreadful history of being bottom feeders. Their basketball program I'm sure isn't full of 1400+ SAT guys. My brother was recruited by Georgetown for football along with a host of PSAC D2 schools and Georgetown told him their cut off for SAT scores was just 1000. He missed the cut off by 40 points and ended up having a pretty good career at a D2 school after turning down a walk on opportunity at local Temple

  6. #16
    Major FCS Ruler Model Citizen's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    Watch for Jacksonville.
    First, the new administrators will have to get comfortable with the idea of scholarship football. Then they'll have to greatly improve their playing facility.

    JU attendance is miserable--and not because they're playing Davidson and Marist. Gotta solve that problem before they triple their football budget. Ultimately, they might add scholarship football for a chance at SoCon membership down the road. Or not.

  7. #17
    Major FCS Ruler FUBeAR's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony215 View Post
    If they don't successfully land Monmouth why not go after Marist if they are willing to up their scholarship money. Facilities wise they could upgrade their stadium a bit.
    I would think they would have to upgrade their stadium A LOT. When I attended a game there in 2013, my "seat" on the visitors side was a large timber embedded into the slightly sloping ground behind the Visitors bench.



    Buildings on campus looked cool though and I certainly enjoyed tailgating on the banks of the Hudson River.
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  8. #18
    AGS FCS Champion DFW HOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony215 View Post
    If the administration wanted to find a way for Georgetown to be competitive in the PL or competitive period they'd find a way to get recruits into the program who could help them win and shed their dreadful history of being bottom feeders. Their basketball program I'm sure isn't full of 1400+ SAT guys.
    That's the Big East, not the PL. Funny how no one here ever complains that Georgetown's soccer team or women's track team isn't filled with 1400+ SAT players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony215 View Post
    My brother was recruited by Georgetown for football along with a host of PSAC D2 schools and Georgetown told him their cut off for SAT scores was just 1000. He missed the cut off by 40 points and ended up having a pretty good career at a D2 school after turning down a walk on opportunity at local Temple
    When was this? The Ivy, er...PL Index since 2001 would have Georgetown at somewhere between a 210-213 index and there's almost no room at that band for Georgetown, though it's more likely at Fordham because their SAT range is much lower. I don't think Georgetown recruits a lot of kids looking at the PSAC these days, but it doesn't recruit the Northeast as a whole as it used to.
    Georgetown: "We play where we do not compete, and compete where we do not play."

  9. #19
    Major FCS Ruler Model Citizen's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by DFW HOYA View Post
    At some point the Patriot (and Georgetown) has to come to the reality that Georgetown is increasingly non-competitive with an NEC budget
    Not sure how relevant a budget comparison is...but what about scholarship equivalencies? Does Georgetown come close to matching the top NEC teams?

    It's time for Georgetown to accept that invitation to join Ivy League football. Three non-league games per year are clearly too many for them. They want the Hoyas NOW.

  10. #20
    AGS FCS Champion DFW HOYA's Avatar
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    Re: Big South football

    Quote Originally Posted by Model Citizen View Post
    Not sure how relevant a budget comparison is...but what about scholarship equivalencies? Does Georgetown come close to matching the top NEC teams?

    It's time for Georgetown to accept that invitation to join Ivy League football. Three non-league games per year are clearly too many for them. They want the Hoyas NOW.
    The Ancient Eight does not extend invitations, not even that trial balloon to Northwestern in the 1970's if Columbia had dropped football.
    Georgetown: "We play where we do not compete, and compete where we do not play."

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