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  1. #81
    First Class FCS Ruler Bucs2016's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBeAR View Post
    Nah...thanks though. Once s/he said my OL perspective was based on "my team's" inability to recruit bigger OLmen (vs. my actual perspective of 40+ years of Playing & Coaching College & HS O-Line), I knew it was a lost cause.

    The phrase "assumes facts not in evidence" must be his/her personal mantra.
    You make some great points about OL. Its by far the most challenging position in FCS to recruit. In my opinion...OL is the true biggest difference in FBS/FCS. The rest of the positions, theres a gap but its not really that big. The difference in most FBS O lines vs FCS ones however is pretty big. Too many FCS teams will take the "look" over the skill at OL. Two of the worst offenders ive seen in the past are Liberty and SC State. Their OL look like the Dallas Cowboys some years in warmups. But usually werent as skilled/effective as some smaller lines like Citadel or Coastal.
    Yeah our stadium is a dump. But your mama has season tickets.

  2. #82

    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucs2016 View Post
    You make some great points about OL. Its by far the most challenging position in FCS to recruit. In my opinion...OL is the true biggest difference in FBS/FCS. The rest of the positions, theres a gap but its not really that big. The difference in most FBS O lines vs FCS ones however is pretty big. Too many FCS teams will take the "look" over the skill at OL. Two of the worst offenders ive seen in the past are Liberty and SC State. Their OL look like the Dallas Cowboys some years in warmups. But usually werent as skilled/effective as some smaller lines like Citadel or Coastal.

    Great points Bucs2016.

    The depth also comes into play.... IMO... Just have more scholarships and depth in FBS.

  3. #83
    Master FCS Advocate youcanbankit's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by vestaviadude View Post
    I agree with you.I like the post!

    Thanks!

  4. #84
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Bucs2016 View Post
    You make some great points about OL. Its by far the most challenging position in FCS to recruit. In my opinion...OL is the true biggest difference in FBS/FCS. The rest of the positions, theres a gap but its not really that big. The difference in most FBS O lines vs FCS ones however is pretty big. Too many FCS teams will take the "look" over the skill at OL. Two of the worst offenders ive seen in the past are Liberty and SC State. Their OL look like the Dallas Cowboys some years in warmups. But usually werent as skilled/effective as some smaller lines like Citadel or Coastal.
    My opinion - Defensive End is the most difficult position to recruit at the FCS level. Good offensive linemen come in a lot of varieties, but the DE is probably the most physically demanding position on the field. Requires size, speed, physicality, athleticism that is difficult to find at the FCS level, especially in a 4-3 defense.
    FU all the time.

    "It's not like we didn't know what was coming. We just couldn't stop them" -WCU head coach Kent Briggs

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  5. #85
    Master FCS Advocate Catamount87's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    My opinion - Defensive End is the most difficult position to recruit at the FCS level. Good offensive linemen come in a lot of varieties, but the DE is probably the most physically demanding position on the field. Requires size, speed, physicality, athleticism that is difficult to find at the FCS level, especially in a 4-3 defense.
    Out of curiosity, I wonder how many and what percentage of FCS schools and on down, run a 3-4 compared to FBS schools.

  6. #86
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by Catamount87 View Post
    Out of curiosity, I wonder how many and what percentage of FCS schools and on down, run a 3-4 compared to FBS schools.
    No idea, but a good question.

    I advocated for Furman to move to a 3-4 scheme for years. My rationale is that it is easier to recruit the players to fit that defense at the FCS level than it is to find guys that are true fits to a 4-3. Perhaps this is because of the continued influx of D1 programs where such players are just not in ample supply as they used to be.

    Furman was struggling to find (and retain) the 6'2 250-60 pound guys they used to have playing a 4-3 defensive end. In recent years, they have relied on taking linebackers and moving them to DE, which has killed our depth at linebacker. Our average player at that position the last few years is probably 20-30 pounds lighter than they used to be.

    With a move to the 3-4, Furman can utilize some under-recruited players that are sort of ill-fit for a more traditional scheme. Good example is Adrian Hope, an OLB Furman recruited out of Ocala, Florida. The guy is a absolute terror in the backfield, but at 6'1 205, doesn't fit well in a 4-3 scheme. You could have played him at linebacker, but you would lose a lot of his explosive pass rush ability, which he is extremely good at. I expect he is going to be an animal in Chad Staggs' 3-4 defense.
    FU all the time.

    "It's not like we didn't know what was coming. We just couldn't stop them" -WCU head coach Kent Briggs

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

  7. #87
    Master FCS Advocate Catamount87's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinFan View Post
    No idea, but a good question.

    I advocated for Furman to move to a 3-4 scheme for years. My rationale is that it is easier to recruit the players to fit that defense at the FCS level than it is to find guys that are true fits to a 4-3. Perhaps this is because of the continued influx of D1 programs where such players are just not in ample supply as they used to be.

    Furman was struggling to find (and retain) the 6'2 250-60 pound guys they used to have playing a 4-3 defensive end. In recent years, they have relied on taking linebackers and moving them to DE, which has killed our depth at linebacker. Our average player at that position the last few years is probably 20-30 pounds lighter than they used to be.

    With a move to the 3-4, Furman can utilize some under-recruited players that are sort of ill-fit for a more traditional scheme. Good example is Adrian Hope, an OLB Furman recruited out of Ocala, Florida. The guy is a absolute terror in the backfield, but at 6'1 205, doesn't fit well in a 4-3 scheme. You could have played him at linebacker, but you would lose a lot of his explosive pass rush ability, which he is extremely good at. I expect he is going to be an animal in Chad Staggs' 3-4 defense.
    Word is that we'll be moving to the 3-4 this year. I suspect it has a lot to do with the exact things you mentioned.

  8. #88
    AGS President of the Confederate States of America citdog's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Problem with the 3-4 is finding Defensive Tackles that can eat up space and be athletic.
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  9. #89
    Top FCS Ruler FUBeAR's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by citdog View Post
    Problem with the 3-4 is finding Defensive Tackles that can eat up space and be athletic.
    Nah...you need 4-6 DT's that can play in a 4-3, but only 2 or 3 of them in a 3-4. You just fatten up a couple of those 1Tech's or ShadeDT's in a 4-3, lean up the lighter 3Tech's a little bit and move them to 3-4 DE's.

    Hate to agree with PaladinFan on ANYTHING and I've always Coached 4-3 (when I Coached DL, on occasion), but after watching Mercer build a solid run D (with a bunch of walk-on D-Linemen) using a 3-4 alignment, I'm in the 3-4 Defense Camp for FCS Football Teams....particularly Teams in the South where Athletes (LB's) are more abundantly available to FCS Programs than big 'ol corn-fed DLmen.
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  10. #90
    AGS FCS Champion PaladinFan's Avatar
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    Re: SAMFORD PICKED TO WIN THE SOCON in 2017

    Quote Originally Posted by FUBeAR View Post
    Nah...you need 4-6 DT's that can play in a 4-3, but only 2 or 3 of them in a 3-4. You just fatten up a couple of those 1Tech's or ShadeDT's in a 4-3, lean up the lighter 3Tech's a little bit and move them to 3-4 DE's.

    Hate to agree with PaladinFan on ANYTHING and I've always Coached 4-3 (when I Coached DL, on occasion), but after watching Mercer build a solid run D (with a bunch of walk-on D-Linemen) using a 3-4 alignment, I'm in the 3-4 Defense Camp for FCS Football Teams....particularly Teams in the South where Athletes (LB's) are more abundantly available to FCS Programs than big 'ol corn-fed DLmen.
    Right.

    There's a lot of misconception that you have to have some big space-eater to run a 3-4. Some teams do run a scheme with a lot of powerful two gap "read and react" defensive linemen (see: Alabama). Those type players are not typically available at the FCS level.

    More likely, you'll see FCS teams implement a 1 gap scheme. The NT will be responsible for one gap instead of two. I actually prefer this type of defensive set because a quick and explosive NT can cause all sorts of problems for the interior offensive line. Have to a be a tough hombre to play in there, though, as you are going to get double teamed virtually every play.
    FU all the time.

    "It's not like we didn't know what was coming. We just couldn't stop them" -WCU head coach Kent Briggs

    "The game we know and love literally grew up in the Southern Conference. To find the foundation for ACC and SEC football, you have to go the league’s roots. To find an appreciation for a brand of football often-overlooked and seldom-appreciated, we as fans should do the same."

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