Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yote 53
Or vice versa if USD were to get an offer to move somewhere else. What am I talking about? That's already happened. USD received an invite to the Big Sky and were set to leave the Summit. A few calls here and there, a little pressure applied here and there, and USD stays in the Summit and gains entry into the MVFC.
The 4 schools are now linked and I don't see one of them breaking away very easily. It would have to be for something so big it is a no-brainer. Competitive balance will keep one school from running too far ahead of the others. Even given NDSU's football success the Bison have still lost to both USD and SDSU in recent years.
USD would’ve ended up like UND in the Big Sky. Crippled due to the costs of traveling. When the UxD’s moved up to D1 this was inevitable. The Dakota’s aren’t big enough population wise for 2 teams in each state, let alone SD having 3 all within about 2-3 hours of each other. A West River D1 who plays in the Big Sky would’ve worked nicely. But Black Hills State and SD Mines aren’t good or big enough for D1.
Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JacksFan40
Throw in Augie and you may as well create an all Dakota conference. Throw in the other D2’s like Sioux Falls and Minot State for good measure.
If you want stability in the summit the best/only way is to take schools that are close together to keep travel down (due to schools you’d attract being smaller and lower budget) with realistic aspirations and understanding of where they fit in the D1 world. Conferences like the WAC and Summit become unstable when members have significantly different ideas (and misunderstandings) of where they fit.
Schools like Augie, MSU Mankato, Sioux Falls, UNO, UMKC, etc... would give that. Recreate the NCC at the D1 level and buy the name from the D2 conference
SDSU
USD
NDSU
UND
Augie
Sioux Falls
MSU Mankato
Southwest Minnesota State
St Cloud State
MSU Morehead
It makes being D1 worthless and there will be zero talent for anyone to recruit but you’ll get the stability your craving. You’ll get and all sports conference (including football), you’ll get rivalries, and it’s literally everything I’ve heard NDSU fans like BF02 ask for.
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Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Or you can take the realistic approach for stability and form
UND
NDSU
SDSU
Augie
USD
UNO
UMKC
ORU
WIU
IPFW
Denver
And try to poach UWM and/or UWGB for extra protection if anything happens with IPFW, Denver or WIU.
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Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Lots of the same old same old hand wringing and people calling the imminent collapse of the Summit from the usual suspects. xlolx
The Summit isn't going anywhere soon and neither are the Dakota's. With the right adds it could be a solid mid-major league. Hopefully Douple does the right things and doesn't over react and listen to the sky is falling idiots on message boards.
There are big changes coming sooner or later to the NCAA. The G5 cannot continue to hemorrhage money while trying to be the P5's little brother. The MWC losing the Las Vegas bowl is going to open more eyes to the inevitable.
Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bisonator
Lots of the same old same old hand wringing and people calling the imminent collapse of the Summit from the usual suspects. xlolx
The Summit isn't going anywhere soon and neither are the Dakota's. With the right adds it could be a solid mid-major league. Hopefully Douple does the right things and doesn't over react and listen to the sky is falling idiots on message boards.
There are big changes coming sooner or later to the NCAA. The G5 cannot continue to hemorrhage money while trying to be the P5's little brother. The MWC losing the Las Vegas bowl is going to open more eyes to the inevitable.
No one is calling for its collapse. You can either strengthen and add or you can stay as you are (which is already needing multiple waivers from the NCAA to not lose auto qualifier status because you don’t meet multiple requirements for keeping an AQ).
When looking at alignment there are a few realistic options. The reality is IPFW wants out and likely ends up in the HL in a year or two. That only gives you 5 baseball schools. To maintain AQ status you need 6. Losing the baseball AW also drops the summit below total number of sports that meet AQ status - which causes all AQs to disappear - and thus NCAA tournament money. UND dropped baseball so they don’t help you out in the stability play. Augie helps with baseball and buffers IPFW.
From a basketball standpoint you have 8 members, which means just 14 conference games. That’s 16 OOC games to schedule. That’s tough. The Big 10 is going to a 20 game schedule so 2 games are lost from every B10 school for OOC open dates. You get to 10 schools and you keep your double round robin and cut OOC games to 12. That’s a big difference and makes scheduling dates and filling a schedule easier. That’s where UMKC comes in. Augie and UMKC give you 10.
The extra option is to be aggressive and keep the HL and WAC from potentially poaching your members. UWM wants out of the HL. UWM has baseball. Going to 11 is a decent number. You can stick with 18 conference MBB games and play with RPI numbers or go to 20 game full double round robin and have only 10 OOC dates to worry about - ~4 of which are taken care of by your MTE. It’s how many would like to see the MVC go with adding Murray.
It’s not about predicting its demise. It’s about taking an actual, realistic, look at options...especially with Augie involved. I can’t imagine the Summit would be content with 9 for its membership number. That’s an odd place to sit, but better than 8 I guess.
And remember, it’s better for the MVFC for a healthy summit and MVC. The MVFC could survive if the Summit schools ended up having to split for whatever reason, but it wouldn’t be idea for anyone.
The reality is the Dakotas don’t have a home outside of the summit. So it’s either take steps to make sure that home is stronger or just sit back and be forced to play reaction damage control mode. It’s the same reason MVC fans aren’t real happy the admins are going “we’re good with 10 even though we have schools than want in and could get to 12”
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Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clenz
The extra option is to be aggressive and keep the HL and WAC from potentially poaching your members. UWM wants out of the HL. UWM has baseball. Going to 11 is a decent number. You can stick with 18 conference MBB games and play with RPI numbers or go to 20 game full double round robin and have only 10 OOC dates to worry about - ~4 of which are taken care of by your MTE. It’s how many would like to see the MVC go with adding Murray.
Why does UWM want out of the HL? I would think they have a natural travel partner in UWGB.
Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Laker
Why does UWM want out of the HL? I would think they have a natural travel partner in UWGB.
From what I’ve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.
The league office (and to be honest everyone, including UWM fans and alumni) feel the athletic department at UWM is a complete and unmitigated disaster (and it is). Firing successful coaches. Hiring people based on nepotism, doing things to intentionally harm programs so the coach can be fired for not succeeding, budget issues, so and and so on. HL feels UWM is stepping out of line and putting unwarranted negative PR on the conference to spin it away from the AD.
UWM would also make a natural travel partner for WIU or IPFW. Sure it’s further than GB, but based on current SL membership it would work.
UWM is interesting in that they have the facilities, and potential, to be something pretty special at the MM level. They are just a disaster and no one is sure how they can actually correct anything. Their limiting factor is that they are about 27 feet from Marquette and UW-Madison is a thing. If they find “their place” and accept what they can grow into they’d be relatively solid.
They might not fit the “won’t look for a bigger home” later stability mold, but there is t anywhere that is going to poach them if they leave the HL. They won’t go back there. The MVC doesn’t want them.
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Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clenz
From what I’ve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.
The league office (and to be honest everyone, including UWM fans and alumni) feel the athletic department at UWM is a complete and unmitigated disaster (and it is). Firing successful coaches. Hiring people based on nepotism, doing things to intentionally harm programs so the coach can be fired for not succeeding, budget issues, so and and so on. HL feels UWM is stepping out of line and putting unwarranted negative PR on the conference to spin it away from the AD.
UWM would also make a natural travel partner for WIU or IPFW. Sure it’s further than GB, but based on current SL membership it would work.
UWM is interesting in that they have the facilities, and potential, to be something pretty special at the MM level. They are just a disaster and no one is sure how they can actually correct anything. Their limiting factor is that they are about 27 feet from Marquette and UW-Madison is a thing. If they find “their place” and accept what they can grow into they’d be relatively solid.
They might not fit the “won’t look for a bigger home” later stability mold, but there is t anywhere that is going to poach them if they leave the HL. They won’t go back there. The MVC doesn’t want them.
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Complete sidetone: UW-M heading over to the Summit with UMKC would clear the way for Murray State to join the MVC. Those Racers really want that conference, despite the strain on football.
Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WestCoastAggie
Complete sidetone: UW-M heading over to the Summit with UMKC would clear the way for Murray State to join the MVC. Those Racers really want that conference, despite the strain on football.
I’m not sure how that would clear the way unless your talking domino effect.
But yes. Murray wants the MVC badly. The MVC mostly wants Murray but there are things that need to be cleared and cleaned up to make sure it’s a move that happens. I’d look for 2020-2021 to be the earliest it happens.
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Re: Augustana SD discussing moving to D1, possibly joining Pioneer
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clenz
From what I’ve gathered with them being MVC rumored HARD last year (take it with a grain of salt) is a significant rift between the league offices and the athletic department at UWM. UWM feels the moves over the last decade or so the HL has made have not been for the best interest of all members and not enough has been done to keep the league strong. Incorrect policies put in place, lack of effort and forward thinking to drive things forward enough. Trying to make the league too focused on the Indiana/Michigan area and actively finding ways to hurt schools like Valpo, UWM, UWGB and UIC.
Aw sweet...let's take all three that are in the HL. Let the Horizon be IN/MI, Summit can take Milwaukee, Green Bay, and UIC...Horizon League can have Fort Wayne. We'll add UMKC and be at 12 teams.
Travel partners of Milwaukee/Green Bay, UIC/WIU, UMKC/Oral Bob, and whatever the Dakotas+Omaha and Denver are doing.
Not that I think this is at all likely, but it's fun to dream, right ;)