A Crossroads may be in store for the MVFC

[TheBisonator]

Well, it APPEARS that Oral Roberts University is announcing tomorrow that they will begin play in the Southland Conference in the near future. As one of the power schools in the Summit League, ORU has given a lot of legitimacy towards the conference in its quest to rise from low-major to mid-major in all DI sports.

If any of you don't know, the Summit League is basically the waiting room of the DI conferences. Doctor Horizon, Doctor Southland, Doctor Missouri Valley and other doctors are waiting in the wings to call on the names of the (now) 9 teams sitting in that room at a moment's notice.

But enough analogies. After ORU's announcement tomorrow, the Summit will be down to 9 teams. One of them doesn't start DI play till next season (Nebraska-Omaha). It has been no secret that Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI are next in line in this veritable waiting room. And Doctor Horizon wants to see them all.

Which leaves the Missouri Valley Football Conference with this decision to make:

The MVFC will next year have 10 teams, 5 of which are NOT in the Valley for all sports. YSU is one of them, though they seem to like being in the Horizon. There are FOUR MVFC schools who are in this situation of sitting in this cramped waiting room reading Fisherman's Digest magazines from 1994 and staring at posters telling about the dangers of V.D.

With the possible exception of Western Illinois (who seems to just float on the current and doesn't give a ****e where it ends up), the Summit schools in the MVFC are in a situation of being a pawn, but they're also in a situation of power. The very future of FCS football in the Midwestern US is at stake.

I would bet any amount of money that by 2014, Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI will announce that they're going to the Horizon. YSU is kind of a side player in this, let's just leave them out for now. You have three schools that will most likely be invested in trying to improve their position in the college athletics scene, and will show great concern over what's going on. You could say that NDSU, SDSU and USD are holding guns to the head of the MVFC.

What does the MVFC do in order to save its conference?? The MVFC cannot survive with only the ISU's, UNI, SIU and Mo State. One of two things I believe will happen:

1) The MVFC works with the all-sports Valley and grants invitations to the XDSUs and maybe USD as well for entry into the Missouri Valley. The MVFC STAYS solidified. At worst, WIU will stay mired in the Summit, Youngstown may already have left for the CAA.

2) The MVFC decides that it's not worth taking a small risk on three pretty good overall DI athletic programs (who may not be world beaters in basketball yet) for the profile of its all-sports league and NDSU, SDSU and USD..... Head over to the Big Sky Conference, which has publicly expressed desires to become one of the new "superconferences". In this case, the MVFC withers and dies on the vine.

So which one is it?? What road are we going to go down??

Discuss.

[gobison.gsb]

Probably 3) Everything stays the same for now. I don't think the Big Sky is in any real hurry to take anymore schools this far East, The MVC has made it very clear they are not interested in expanding at all (not for Air Force or anyone with the exception of Butler, St. Louis, or similar schools). Right now we have zero leverage within the MVC. Everyone else seems to be quite happy how things are. We will probably try to find someone else to get into the Summit...(Chicago State...ugh).

Sucks, because I would love for us, SDSU, and possibily USD to be in the MVC all sports. All three are trying to put as much resources together as possible to look appealing to the MVC, hell look at NDSU and SDSU records in sports. We're pretty much #1-3 for every sport.

Hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised in the next few months (or years) with a MVC invite. Basketball and Volleyball games vs. ISUr, ISUb, UNI, and Missouri St would be worlds better and more entertaining than playing and explaining every year to people who IUPUI, IPFW, and UMKC are....

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well I can tell you want is very unlikely. The MVC allowing the Dakotas in for all sports. If the MVC adds any schools it will probably be non-football schools such as St. Louis.

Of course this could just be what I am hearing from the people over on mvcfans.com. As the Wichita, and Creighton fans are very high and mighty about their schools. Things may change too if MSU and ISUr decided to take the plunge to FBS football.

[strike00]

The MVC will not make any drastic decision based on the MVFC. If people think that the Dakotas can force there way into the MVC through the MVFC then they are fooling themselves. I can't see any of the Dakota schools being desirable at the moment to the MVC. NDSU would be the closest but I doubt they are there yet.

[TheBisonator]

The MVC will not make any drastic decision based on the MVFC. If people think that the Dakotas can force there way into the MVC through the MVFC then they are fooling themselves. I can't see any of the Dakota schools being desirable at the moment to the MVC. NDSU would be the closest but I doubt they are there yet.

Do you love UNI football?? Cause the well-being of UNI football is very much tied into what NDSU/SDSU want.

NDSU can easily flip the bird and crack a huge fart at the MVFC's direction if the disaster that is currently happening in the Summit continues and the BSC gives them a nice offer.

If any of you MVC MVFC teams truly give two shoots about your football programs, you'll give us a say in things.

Do you like 5-team FB conferences?? I hope you do. I also hope you like losing your autobid.

This discussion is about THE FUTURE OF MVFC FOOTBALL. The MVFC has a decision to make in the future about whether or not it wants to remain one of the FCS powers.

Having the XDSU's kept out of the MVC and STAYING in the MVFC may NOT BE AN OPTION IN THE NEAR FUTURE. The chances of this staying an option are becoming LESS AND LESS.

[gobison.gsb]

Do you love UNI football?? Cause the well-being of UNI football is very much tied into what NDSU/SDSU want.

NDSU can easily flip the bird and crack a huge fart at the MVFC's direction if the disaster that is currently happening in the Summit continues and the BSC gives them a nice offer.
If any of you MVC MVFC teams truly give two shoots about your football programs, you'll give us a say in things.

Do you like 5-team FB conferences?? I hope you do. I also hope you like losing your autobid.

This discussion is about THE FUTURE OF MVFC FOOTBALL. The MVFC has a decision to make in the future about whether or not it wants to remain one of the FCS powers.

Having the XDSU's kept out of the MVC and STAYING in the MVFC may NOT BE AN OPTION IN THE NEAR FUTURE. The chances of this staying an option are becoming LESS AND LESS.

Why would this happen? I repeat, we have zero leverage within the MVC. The MVFC basically is the same in name only.

[strike00]

It doesn't really matter what I want or any football fans want. The MVC is a basketball driven league and football will be given very, very little consideration when the MVC makes decisions the magnitude of adding teams for all sports. That's reality and it has nothing to do with fans of MVFC football teams.

[bincitysioux]

My thought is that the MVC doesn't give a rip about the MVFC. There are a host of schools from the Horizon that would be invited before any Summit schools would................

With only 5 football playing members in the MVC (excluding Drake), I doubt there is even enough influence there even if the MVFC members actually wanted to go out of their way to preserve it. And when you consider the travel concessions that SIU demanded in order for USD to get the football invite, I think it is unlikely that they'd go out of their way to promote the Dakota Big 3 for anything.

I don't think even the 5 MVC members that play MVFC football would be willing to even entertain the idea adding the Dakota Big 3 when you consider the RPI hit that the MVC would take. Not saying that as a knock to the Dakota Big 3, just have to consider the extremely high standards required especially for basketball to get into the MVC. St. Louis, Butler, Valpo are all in the MVC footprint and bring more to the basketball table than do the Dakota Big 3.

[TheBisonator]

Why would this happen? I repeat, we have zero leverage within the MVC. The MVFC basically is the same in name only.

(breathes heavily) I know...... We don't have any leverage with the Missouri Valley Conference.

We have leverage with THE MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE. How big do you want me to make the word "FOOTBALL" in this sentence??

I am saying... NDSU/SDSU hold power as far as the future of the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE is concerned. If the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL (big enough?) CONFERENCE is invested in its future success, they will give NDSU and SDSU a say in things. That may include finding out if the all-sports conference wants to invite them.

FOOTBALL. I said FOOTBALL. I'm talking MVFC, this is a FOOTBALL board.

[DJKyR0]

(breathes heavily) I know...... We don't have any leverage with the Missouri Valley Conference.

We have leverage with THE MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE. How big do you want me to make the word "FOOTBALL" in this sentence??

I am saying... NDSU/SDSU hold power as far as the future of the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE is concerned. If the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL (big enough?) CONFERENCE is invested in its future success, they will give NDSU and SDSU a say in things. That may include finding out if the all-sports conference wants to invite them.

FOOTBALL. I said FOOTBALL. I'm talking MVFC, this is a FOOTBALL board.

FOOTBALL means nothing to the commissioner of the Missouri Valley Conference. The well-being of a single program at about half the member schools isn't a priority. Individual fans/schools might want to preserve the FOOTBALL element of the equation but the commissioner and university presidents have other priorities.

Thinking that we have leverage in this situation just isn't very accurate.

[LakesBison]

give it a rest man. ORU are wimps for leaving, but whatever. NDSU might have to look at MAC/WAC if MVC wont let them play basketball. There will be maybe NKU or AFA invited, but NO ONE else and NDSU WILL NEVER GOTO THE BIG FLUFFY EVER.


PS_ I stole this from Zooropa......
2010/11 MBB Sagarin with ORU, Centenary, SUU = 68.94 = 18th
2010/11 MBB Sagarin without ORU, Centenary, SUU, with USD = 70.1 = 18th

Yawn, cya ORU no big loss, sorry your lil ego got knocked down with NDSU/SDSU and both getting better at baseball/basketball and setting attendence records, NOT to mention the absolute destruction of ORU in the following:

Baseball: Sdsu title ndsu getting better
Mens bball : NDSU big dance, Sioux Falls attendence records
womens bball : SDSU destroyed them
Womens Gofl : NDSU's AMY ANDERSON
Track : NDSU's teams both crushed
Volleyball: NDSU crushed, Ncaa's twice
Soccer: NDSU big dance.


Yep. ba bye

[ValleyChamp]

Do you love UNI football?? Cause the well-being of UNI football is very much tied into what NDSU/SDSU want.

NDSU can easily flip the bird and crack a huge fart at the MVFC's direction if the disaster that is currently happening in the Summit continues and the BSC gives them a nice offer.

If any of you MVC MVFC teams truly give two shoots about your football programs, you'll give us a say in things.

Do you like 5-team FB conferences?? I hope you do. I also hope you like losing your autobid.

This discussion is about THE FUTURE OF MVFC FOOTBALL. The MVFC has a decision to make in the future about whether or not it wants to remain one of the FCS powers.

Having the XDSU's kept out of the MVC and STAYING in the MVFC may NOT BE AN OPTION IN THE NEAR FUTURE. The chances of this staying an option are becoming LESS AND LESS.

WOW, give me a break...

The MVC could care less about the MVFC. The Dakota schools have zero leverage regarding anything concerning the MVC or MVFC. The Dakota schools want to leave the MVFC? Ok, big deal. They will be replaced by some OVC schools or something. It doesn't really matter. Its FCS football for god's sake, its not like there are millions of dollars at stake. Your statement about UNI's future, and the very future of the conference is at stake because of this is so incredibly ridiculous and is LOL funny.

Oral freaking Roberts (a non football school) is thinking about leaving some crap conference to join another crap conference, and somehow you arrive at the idea of this being the thing that rocks the foundation of mid-major sports in the midwest? LOL

[UNI Pike]

Look, Air Force was (is?) all but begging to have non-football sports in the MVC. This idea went about 7 feet down the road. Look at it objectively Air Force or ___________ Dakota? MVC wants Bulter, Valpo and possibly St Louis or DePaul. Unlikely to get any, but the league is in no rush to find any other program. In fact, BB only schools actually despise FB because they don't have it. Creighton, WSU, Evansville, etc. may vote against membership simply out of spite.

MVFC football membership is primarily dictated by geography/travel budgets. It is what it is. Be happy with what you have.

[SDFS]

(breathes heavily) I know...... We don't have any leverage with the Missouri Valley Conference.

We have leverage with THE MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE. How big do you want me to make the word "FOOTBALL" in this sentence??

I am saying... NDSU/SDSU hold power as far as the future of the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL CONFERENCE is concerned. If the MISSOURI VALLEY FOOTBALL (big enough?) CONFERENCE is invested in its future success, they will give NDSU and SDSU a say in things. That may include finding out if the all-sports conference wants to invite them.

FOOTBALL. I said FOOTBALL. I'm talking MVFC, this is a FOOTBALL board.

I am not a fan of this thought, but does NDSU go Big Sky and USD/SDSU stay in MVFC/Summit

[344Johnson]

I would think that the MVFC schools that are in the MVC would like to keep the MVFC alive. That would require keeping XDSU's, USD, and YSU. So perhaps UNI, ISU's, SIU, etc. would maybe consider trying to help XDSU, USD get into the MVC full-time. But like you guys said, MVC is all about basketball and probably doesn't care. I hope that A.) NDSU gets into the Valley full-time or B.) the Summit does just fine and stays alive.

I don't want to go to the Big Sky. 7 years ago that would have been great, but I would much rather be a part of a midwest conference than be apart of a ridiculously spread out Big Sky. Though I'm pretty sure that the Big Sky would like to get NDSU now, considering UND will be out east...all alone,without a travel partner.

[BisonBacker]

I would think that the MVFC schools that are in the MVC would like to keep the MVFC alive. That would require keeping XDSU's, USD, and YSU. So perhaps UNI, ISU's, SIU, etc. would maybe consider trying to help XDSU, USD get into the MVC full-time. But like you guys said, MVC is all about basketball and probably doesn't care. I hope that A.) NDSU gets into the Valley full-time or B.) the Summit does just fine and stays alive.

I don't want to go to the Big Sky. 7 years ago that would have been great, but I would much rather be a part of a midwest conference than be apart of a ridiculously spread out Big Sky. Though I'm pretty sure that the Big Sky would like to get NDSU now, considering UND will be out east...all alone,without a travel partner.

How rediculously spread out would the MVC be if they added us? Not as bad as the BSC but it would add travel costs big time to the existing schools. This is why I don't see this idea flying and I also don't care about the BSC for the very same reason. The travel costs are going to hurt UND no two ways about it. The BSC would never have invited UND alone and Fullerton and the BSC screwed up royally by letting USD slip out of the invite by not extending an offer in the form of both or none. By not doing that and allowing USD the option they just screwed the pooch to all BSC members who now have to travel to GForks for UND home games in all sports with UND having no travel partner. Can you see the MVC members even with travel partners wanting t add to thier already tight budgets? I don't see it happening.

[darell1976]

How rediculously spread out would the MVC be if they added us? Not as bad as the BSC but it would add travel costs big time to the existing schools. This is why I don't see this idea flying and I also don't care about the BSC for the very same reason. The travel costs are going to hurt UND no two ways about it. The BSC would never have invited UND alone and Fullerton and the BSC screwed up royally by letting USD slip out of the invite by not extending an offer in the form of both or none. By not doing that and allowing USD the option they just screwed the pooch to all BSC members who now have to travel to GForks for UND home games in all sports with UND having no travel partner. Can you see the MVC members even with travel partners wanting t add to thier already tight budgets? I don't see it happening.

I think right now NDSU is in the screwed the pooch league. 20 teams gone in 20 years thats a team a year...who's next Oakland? IPFW? IUPUI? I am sure St. Cloud State and Mankato could be good replacements in the NCC 2.0 league.

[BisonBacker]

Nice try but if NDSU/SDSU and USD wanted a Big fluffy invite all they would have to do is place one phone call. The BSC would jump on that offer to salvage the disaster that they created for themselves regarding travel and UND.

[darell1976]

Nice try but if NDSU/SDSU and USD wanted a Big fluffy invite all they would have to do is place one phone call. The BSC would jump on that offer to salvage the disaster that they created for themselves regarding travel and UND.

The Big Sky had USD but USD turned its back on the Big Sky..I don't think Fullerton will forget that. And he did say no to SDSU and NDSU before so thats not a guarantee unless another Dakota member of the Big Sky helps them out, and all I have to say with that is good luck.

[Professor Chaos]

Thread Synopsis
1. UND fan: My conference is better than yours.
2. NDSU fan: No it's not, but my wife it hotter than yours.
3. UND fan: No she's not, but my d*** is longer than yours.
4. NDSU fan: No it's not, but my b***s are bigger than yours.
5. UND fan: No they're not, but your s*** stinks worse than mine.
6. NDSU fan: No it doesn't, but my conference is better than yours.
7. UND fan: [go back to 2]

You're welcome AGS, I just saved you all from reading next 156 posts in this thread. You're welcome for that priceless time in your life that you now have back. I accept donations in the form of cash, check, or full frontal nudity.

[LakesBison]

Yea, this whole site would be better without Darrel on here, I mean give it a rest NDSU HAS BIGGER FISH TO FRY, leave us alone and goto your NAIA football game this weekend or next or whenever your 3rd NAIA game is this year.

Back on Topic.

the SUMMIT will be fine with 9 teams, hell, getting to the big dance just got easier.

NDSU will not move anywhere until a FBS conference invites them, period, end of story.

[darell1976]

Yea, this whole site would be better without Darrel on here, I mean give it a rest NDSU HAS BIGGER FISH TO FRY, leave us alone and goto your NAIA football game this weekend or next or whenever your 3rd NAIA game is this year.

Back on Topic.

the SUMMIT will be fine with 9 teams, hell, getting to the big dance just got easier.

NDSU will not move anywhere until a FBS conference invites them, period, end of story.

Let me get this straight...Bison fans can bash UND and the Big Sky for allowing UND to join (which according to Fullerton had to do with other things besides sports...did you know education is taught at schools not just sports), but if I throw in my 2 cents and with no bashing on it...its wrong. Because joining the Big Sky or asking UND for help is a possible option a lot better than having Mankato join (I read all the posts on this at Bisonville..pretty entertaining over there). How would NDSU look if they lost their chance at the dance to say St. Cloud or Omaha. Just like the NCC days of old....glad to have you back Lakes, enjoy your stay.

[Houndawg]

The Dakota teams would be a better fit in the BSC than the MVC.

[goyotes]

The demise of either the Summit or the MVC would likely be the end of the MVFC.

A possible solution to keeping the MVFC together, would be for the MVC & Summit League enter into a basketball, (mens & womens & perhaps volleyball) scheduling agreement under which team would play 3 - 4 games per year against teams from the other conference. At this point in time, the MVC is obviously the stronger and more highly regarded league. Therefore, perhaps the scheduling agreement would give the MVC teams 2 home games for every road game.

[NDB]

The MVC does not give two sh#ts about the Summit League or its members, including those in the MVFC.

[LakesBison]

Patty V is that reason. and Drake, Creighton and wichita since they dont have football.

Summit will be fine, so we lost ORU, Oakland, NDSU, IUPUI make it still a 3 team league for basketball.

NDSU wont move anywhere in football unless its a FBS move.

[NDB]

(WAC Attack!!!)

[Yote 53]

An obvious solution to all these problems is for the MVFC to invite UND to join, then the Summit follow with an offer 2 seconds later. The UND brass have to look at saving on travel costs and a renewal of the NDSU rivalry. The political pressure would be unbearable. Then the BSC presidents give UND a gentle nudge back to the midwest. To top it off, have the MVFC/Summit offer Eastern Illinois to provide some eastern balance to both conferences. All problems solved in the Midwest for all schools. The MVFC stablizes itself for good. The BSC schools solve their outlier travel problem.

Funny, USD held so much power one year ago. How things might have changed drastically if we would have gone to the BSC. Right now the Summit would be on the verge of collapse, the Dakota State's would be clamoring to get into the BSC, and the MVFC would be on the verge of implosion. Instead we sit in the trainwreck that is the Summit.

[darell1976]

An obvious solution to all these problems is for the MVFC to invite UND to join, then the Summit follow with an offer 2 seconds later. The UND brass have to look at saving on travel costs and a renewal of the NDSU rivalry. The political pressure would be unbearable. Then the BSC presidents give UND a gentle nudge back to the midwest. To top it off, have the MVFC/Summit offer Eastern Illinois to provide some eastern balance to both conferences. All problems solved in the Midwest for all schools. The MVFC stablizes itself for good. The BSC schools solve their outlier travel problem.

Funny, USD held so much power one year ago. How things might have changed drastically if we would have gone to the BSC. Right now the Summit would be on the verge of collapse, the Dakota State's would be clamoring to get into the BSC, and the MVFC would be on the verge of implosion. Instead we sit in the trainwreck that is the Summit.

UND didn't burn the bridge with the Summit, as they told the Summit (who was coming to Grand Forks) not to come as they were taking the invite to the Big Sky. I guess it would have looked bad to do the invite then tell the Summit thanks for wasting your time, because we are Big Sky bound. Also the Big Sky would have to wave the exit fee which if UND went behind the Big Sky's back would be $1 million. So UND would have to tell the BSC up front if they are looking at the Summit League. I know at this point UND would be accepted in the Summit after Nov 7th (if the state law reguarding the Sioux name is repealed). I think the MVFC did what they had to do with USD in letting them join in order to save the Summit League. If more teams leave there goes their AQ status. The MVFC said that teams didn't want both UND and USD but comprimied on just USD. So UND joining the MVFC isn't an option even with the flip flop of teams to different conferences.

[Yote 53]

This situation is fluid. Some schools may change their minds on UND as a MVFC member if there conference is under threat.

[darell1976]

This situation is fluid. Some schools may change their minds on UND as a MVFC member if there conference is under threat.

I see maybe a 20% of UND leaving if it was a package deal (MVFC and Summit). If it was just Summit with an outside chance of the MVFC...there would be NO chance UND took it. Big Sky in all sports is a pretty sweet deal, yes travel is a downfall and so is no baseball (UND would love to join the Summit for that), but that is all we have. If it wasn't for the Big Sky inviting them it would be Summit and Indy football. BTW Yote 53...good luck against Poly..still hoping for a UND-USD final game showdown for the conference title!!

[frozennorth]

Invite umd
Make un-o restart football

NCC 2.0

[LakesBison]

summit, mvfc doesnt need the RACISM of UND (see standing rock comments) and logo problems, dont need the NAZI-SYMPTHAZER Ralph Englestad, Dont need their fans who are seen flipping the bird on espn 2 hockey game last year and last but not least.... THEY completely suck in every sport.


back to topic once again......

SUMMIT will be fine with 9 teams (they will add someone from the east to appease Oakland/Iupui/Ipfw) done deal, go back to flippin pizzas.

[darell1976]

http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/20...ne-else-leaves


Under this new rule, to hold an auto bid to the tournament, a Division I conference must have seven men's basketball playing members with no continuity of membership requirements. Six of those schools must conduct conference play in five or more other sports.
Cutting it kinda close aren't they? UNO isn't full members until 2015. So technically UNO doesn't count towards the auto-bid number so the Summit is down to 8 members!! How many more teams from the Summit might be gone until then. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...+Summit+League

[FargoBison]

http://www.bloggingthebracket.com/20...ne-else-leaves


Cutting it kinda close aren't they? UNO isn't full members until 2015. So technically UNO doesn't count towards the auto-bid number so the Summit is down to 8 members!! How many more teams from the Summit might be gone until then. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...+Summit+League

I believe a conference gets a two year grace period if it falls below the required number of active members.

[Dgreenwell3]

Ok don't take this as an insult but if the MVC adds a team, it won't be North Dakota State. Sorry Bison, you don't add to the competiveness of the conference in it's premier sport...Sorry Bison, you won't be in the MVC anytime soon but glad to have you in the MVFC.

[Ginsbach]

The Dakota teams would be a better fit in the BSC than the MVC.

Geographically? Oh, not at all. All of the Dakota schools are on the eastern borders of their respective states.

It's a haul from UND to anywhere in the BSC. The closest conference member to Grand Forks is UNC, which is 640 miles. Next closest is MSU at 830 miles. Furthest trip is to Cal Poly, which is 2000 miles. UC Davis (1770 miles), Sac State (1750 miles), NAU(1600 miles), and Portland State (1575 miles) are all over 1500 miles away.

Throw UND into the MVC? Not counting the games against NDSU (80 miles) and SDSU (260 miles), the closest current MVC members would be Creighton (500 miles to Omaha) and UNI (530 miles) with the furthest (Evansville) at 1030 miles. NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD all fit closer into the footprint.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Big_Sky_2012.png/647px-Big_Sky_2012.png

Look at that. Put NDSU on the ND/MN border, SDSU on the SD/MN border, and USD on the SD/IA border. Terrible fit.

[darell1976]

Ok don't take this as an insult but if the MVC adds a team, it won't be North Dakota State. Sorry Bison, you don't add to the competiveness of the conference in it's premier sport...Sorry Bison, you won't be in the MVC anytime soon but glad to have you in the MVFC.

Plus their upgraded/new basketball arena (SHAC) isn't built yet due to $$$. That would help their cause to move to the MVC, but until then their facility isn't top notch.

[344Johnson]

Once the SHAC is done, which the arena portion I think is a season or two away, NDSU would probably start looking relatively attractive. Especially if NDSU can use it as a recruiting tool and get better basketball as a result of the new arena.

[darell1976]

Geographically? Oh, not at all. All of the Dakota schools are on the eastern borders of their respective states.

It's a haul from UND to anywhere in the BSC. The closest conference member to Grand Forks is UNC, which is 640 miles. Next closest is MSU at 830 miles. Furthest trip is to Cal Poly, which is 2000 miles. UC Davis (1770 miles), Sac State (1750 miles), NAU(1600 miles), and Portland State (1575 miles) are all over 1500 miles away.

Throw UND into the MVC? Not counting the games against NDSU (80 miles) and SDSU (260 miles), the closest current MVC members would be Creighton (500 miles to Omaha) and UNI (530 miles) with the furthest (Evansville) at 1030 miles. NDSU, SDSU, UND, and USD all fit closer into the footprint.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Big_Sky_2012.png/647px-Big_Sky_2012.png

Look at that. Put NDSU on the ND/MN border, SDSU on the SD/MN border, and USD on the SD/IA border. Terrible fit.

Look at Sacramento St its almost as bad as UND.. Distance from Sac St to PSU (581), SUU (652), Weber St (684), Idaho St (698), NAU (761), Eastern Washington (808), MSU (940), Montana (972), UNC (1137), UND (1759). Football...UC Davis (14 miles), Cal Poly (289).

[Strommer10]

Once the SHAC is done, which the arena portion I think is a season or two away, NDSU would probably start looking relatively attractive. Especially if NDSU can use it as a recruiting tool and get better basketball as a result of the new arena.

Until the new arena is built, I wouldn't even consider moving to a better conference. With the SHAC, new indoor track facility, & the Dome, we will have the attractive facilities for a conference like the MVC. Maybe by then our basketball teams will be back to conference contenders every year. The new arenas should help the recruiting aspect as well.

[darell1976]

Until the new arena is built, I wouldn't even consider moving to a better conference. With the SHAC, new indoor track facility, & the Dome, we will have the attractive facilities for a conference like the MVC. Maybe by then our basketball teams will be back to conference contenders every year. The new arenas should help the recruiting aspect as well.

I have seen pics of what it will look like and it is really impressive!!

[darell1976]

I believe a conference gets a two year grace period if it falls below the required number of active members.

I see nothing on the net about that.

[LakesBison]

what part of MVFC dont you get darrel, you're not in it, cant you go to a naiaboard or something?

[darell1976]

what part of MVFC dont you get darrel, you're not in it, cant you go to a naiaboard or something?

You know Montana State played a NAIA team Lakes...go make fun of them for a while, cause its getting old. BTW UND was brought into this by a Bison fan in post #15. So blame him.

[MplsBison]

Well, it APPEARS that Oral Roberts University is announcing tomorrow that they will begin play in the Southland Conference in the near future. As one of the power schools in the Summit League, ORU has given a lot of legitimacy towards the conference in its quest to rise from low-major to mid-major in all DI sports.

If any of you don't know, the Summit League is basically the waiting room of the DI conferences. Doctor Horizon, Doctor Southland, Doctor Missouri Valley and other doctors are waiting in the wings to call on the names of the (now) 9 teams sitting in that room at a moment's notice.

But enough analogies. After ORU's announcement tomorrow, the Summit will be down to 9 teams. One of them doesn't start DI play till next season (Nebraska-Omaha). It has been no secret that Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI are next in line in this veritable waiting room. And Doctor Horizon wants to see them all.

Which leaves the Missouri Valley Football Conference with this decision to make:

The MVFC will next year have 10 teams, 5 of which are NOT in the Valley for all sports. YSU is one of them, though they seem to like being in the Horizon. There are FOUR MVFC schools who are in this situation of sitting in this cramped waiting room reading Fisherman's Digest magazines from 1994 and staring at posters telling about the dangers of V.D.

With the possible exception of Western Illinois (who seems to just float on the current and doesn't give a ****e where it ends up), the Summit schools in the MVFC are in a situation of being a pawn, but they're also in a situation of power. The very future of FCS football in the Midwestern US is at stake.

I would bet any amount of money that by 2014, Oakland, IPFW and IUPUI will announce that they're going to the Horizon. YSU is kind of a side player in this, let's just leave them out for now. You have three schools that will most likely be invested in trying to improve their position in the college athletics scene, and will show great concern over what's going on. You could say that NDSU, SDSU and USD are holding guns to the head of the MVFC.

What does the MVFC do in order to save its conference?? The MVFC cannot survive with only the ISU's, UNI, SIU and Mo State. One of two things I believe will happen:

1) The MVFC works with the all-sports Valley and grants invitations to the XDSUs and maybe USD as well for entry into the Missouri Valley. The MVFC STAYS solidified. At worst, WIU will stay mired in the Summit, Youngstown may already have left for the CAA.

2) The MVFC decides that it's not worth taking a small risk on three pretty good overall DI athletic programs (who may not be world beaters in basketball yet) for the profile of its all-sports league and NDSU, SDSU and USD..... Head over to the Big Sky Conference, which has publicly expressed desires to become one of the new "superconferences". In this case, the MVFC withers and dies on the vine.

So which one is it?? What road are we going to go down??

Discuss.

Create "Summit Division" and "Missouri Valley" division of the MVFC:

Summit:
NDSU
USD
SDSU
WIU
EIU

MVC:
IL St
SIU
UNI
MO St
IN St

Summit adds Eastern ILL for all sports (they're already members for M soccer I believe). Youngstown leaves MVFC for whatever reason (don't care).

The Summit commissioner and the MVC commissioner are co-chairs of the MVFC.

[PantherRob82]

This thread is stupid. Unless Creighton, Wichita State, Bradley, and Evansville leave, there is no chance any of the Dakotas get into the MVC.

[Sycamore51]

I'm hoping the Big East breaks up so we can bring in DePaul and go after Marquette. I'd also like to see St. Louis join in, and as much as it kills me, Butler. I can't stand Butler. Then for Butler and Drake to reach into those deep pockets and give money for football.

[Sec310]

The Big East FOOTBALL conference may break up, but the basketball conference with about 6-8 basketball schools-G-Town, St. John's, Notre Dame, will stick together. That assumes ND doesn't join a conference for football. So, DePaul & Marquette aren't going anywhere. The BE basketball schools could add Butler, Dayton, Xavier, etc and form a very good basketball conference.

[Sycamore51]

Let's assume NBC dries up and ND leaves and all football schools are gone. With the exception of G-Town, I would say the two conferences are about equal. Here's what I would wish for for Christmas.
MVC
INST, ILST, UNI, SIU, MoSt, Drake, Butler, Dayton (all playing football)
Wichita, Creighton, St. Louis, Bradley, Depaul, Marquette in all but football.
I think this would be better for everybody.

[344Johnson]

Let's assume NBC dries up and ND leaves and all football schools are gone. With the exception of G-Town, I would say the two conferences are about equal. Here's what I would wish for for Christmas.
MVC
INST, ILST, UNI, SIU, MoSt, Drake, Butler, Dayton (all playing football)
Wichita, Creighton, St. Louis, Bradley, Depaul, Marquette in all but football.
I think this would be better for everybody.

Trust me, you don't want Drake playing any Missouri Valley football. Or Butler. Oh wait :(
You probably do, I'm just the North Dakota State cricket in your ear whispering, "You could always invite North Dakota State."

[344Johnson]

I have seen pics of what it will look like and it is really impressive!!

Yeah, it really does look like a DI arena which is completely necessary if NDSU wants bball to take the next step. But I forget, this is a football forum!

[Sec310]

Nova, G-Town, St. John's, Seton Hall, De Paul, Marquette, Provindence, Rutgers, UConn is equal to the MVC?

[Sycamore51]

Nova, G-Town, St. John's, Seton Hall, De Paul, Marquette, Provindence, Rutgers, UConn is equal to the MVC?

I said with uconn gone, but yes the mvc and big east are about the same in quality of all sports minus lacrosse and field hockey, with the exception of maybe gtown. InSt beat depaul like a drum last year. take out cuse, UL, cinci, uconn, wvu, and Pitt, the big east is on par with the mvc product wise, maybe has more name recognition, but product wise very similar

[Thundar]

Only the people in the offices know what they want, fans on message boards dont mean squat, who 4 years ago would have thought Boise St would get an offer from the Big East

[joeybrownerhof]

I said with uconn gone, but yes the mvc and big east are about the same in quality of all sports minus lacrosse and field hockey, with the exception of maybe gtown. InSt beat depaul like a drum last year. take out cuse, UL, cinci, uconn, wvu, and Pitt, the big east is on par with the mvc product wise, maybe has more name recognition, but product wise very similar

UUHHHHH NO. I ran the numbers and UHHHHH No.

[Sycamore51]

How off was I? Numbers might be inflated though due to how good those schools leaving are

[PantherRob82]

Only the people in the offices know what they want, fans on message boards dont mean squat, who 4 years ago would have thought Boise St would get an offer from the Big East

Creighton and Wichita do not want the Dakotas. They have a lot more non-football schools with better resumes.

[Thundar]

Creighton and Wichita do not want the Dakotas. They have a lot more non-football schools with better resumes.


never said they did, just pointed out that because some people on message boards say something doesnt mean the brass in the conference and schools think that....

[darell1976]

Creighton and Wichita do not want the Dakotas. They have a lot more non-football schools with better resumes.

Like I posted on SS, why doesn't the MVC take the MVFC teams from the Summit, then have the surrounding conferences take Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc...and dissolve the Summit and any new team just join the Great West.

[PantherRob82]

Like I posted on SS, why doesn't the MVC take the MVFC teams from the Summit, then have the surrounding conferences take Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc...and dissolve the Summit and any new team just join the Great West.

Because in their opinion, and also reality, those teams do nothing to improve the MVC and the goals as a conference. I dont think any of the schools in the MVC support expansion unless it is someone pretty impressive. We currently have a full round robin schedule, so more teams is not in our best interest.

[darell1976]

Because in their opinion, and also reality, those teams do nothing to improve the MVC and the goals as a conference. I dont think any of the schools in the MVC support expansion unless it is someone pretty impressive. We currently have a full round robin schedule, so more teams is not in our best interest.

Sure it is. Every conference needs 20 teams like what the FBS is doing. Lets all have superconferences...even in basketball.xlolx

[TheBisonator]

Because in their opinion, and also reality, those teams do nothing to improve the MVC and the goals as a conference. I dont think any of the schools in the MVC support expansion unless it is someone pretty impressive. We currently have a full round robin schedule, so more teams is not in our best interest.

If you don't think that snobbery also has anything to do with this, you're in denial

[Professor Chaos]

If you don't think that snobbery also has anything to do with this, you're in denial
They have a right to be snobbish about it though. The MVC is as stable as any midmajor in the country. The only thing that would even remotely endanger them needing to look at expansion is if schools like IlSU or MSU wanted to go FBS in football. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The MVC isn't in the C-USA or the MWC shoes where they're getting raided by other conference because they don't have any attractive football schools which is the driver of all this conference movement.

I want NDSU to get into the MVC just as much as any other Bison fan but it's a pipe dream right now. The nature of this beast can change at any point though so we can all hope but as they say you can s--- in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up first.

[ValleyChamp]

Like I posted on SS, why doesn't the MVC take the MVFC teams from the Summit, then have the surrounding conferences take Oakland, IUPUI, IPFW etc...and dissolve the Summit and any new team just join the Great West.

Because that would be awful.

[ValleyChamp]

If you don't think that snobbery also has anything to do with this, you're in denial

Call it whatever you want. But please, take the time to compare the Summit programs to the programs in the MVC. Pretty big discrepancy in quality. Totally different level of quality in most cases.


They have a right to be snobbish about it though. The MVC is as stable as any midmajor in the country. The only thing that would even remotely endanger them needing to look at expansion is if schools like IlSU or MSU wanted to go FBS in football. I don't see that happening anytime soon. The MVC isn't in the C-USA or the MWC shoes where they're getting raided by other conference because they don't have any attractive football schools which is the driver of all this conference movement.

I want NDSU to get into the MVC just as much as any other Bison fan but it's a pipe dream right now. The nature of this beast can change at any point though so we can all hope but as they say you can s--- in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up first.

Exactly.xthumbsupx

[TheBisonator]

I posted this on the Bison board, and it rings true on here.

The thing that bothers me about some of you UNI fans is that in the real world, UNI's athletic department as a whole is not at such a level that's incredibly higher than NDSU that it has any right to espouse the notion that becoming conference peers with NDSU would somehow debase the entire Panther athletic program. Last I checked, NDSU's athletic budget in 2010 was $14.3 mill. I think UNI's was around $14.7 mill. (It could have been $16 mill, unless I have mistaken it with another school). Our FB program may not perform as well as you on the field face-to-face, but we have virtaually the same budget, and we make more money on FB than you and have more FB resources. In basketball, once the SHAC is built, NDSU's BB situation will be virtually identical to UNI's in the McLeod Center, except we'll be in a much inferior conference than you. You could only dream of having our baseball park, and it is a facility that the MVC could point to and say, "THAT's the type of ballparks our baseball teams play in." We're one of the tops in DI in track and field. Currently building a new indoor facility. Overall, NDSU has an athletic commitment that if you pointed to any fan of a major school and gave them the comparison, they would say, "These two programs are pretty much the same." Yet somehow it would be an INSULT to UNI for NDSU to be invited to the Missouri Valley Conference.

I guess another way to put it is, WHERE DO YOU GET OFF thinking that the addition of NDSU (and SDSU) to the MVC would somehow be a complete DEBASEMENT of UNI athletics??

Is UNI the U of Illinois?? Is NDSU Morningside College?? No? Then GET OVER IT.

[UNIFanSince1983]

It isn't just UNI. And if you want to talk about baseball maybe have a talk with the guys at Wichita, Missouri State, or Creighton. Go propose your theory over on the boards at mvcfans and see what those guys tell you. I guarantee it will be worse than what the UNI fans are telling you. They don't think we should even be in the Valley.

[TheBisonator]

They don't think we should even be in the Valley.

This is news to me, seriously.

[UNIFanSince1983]

This is news to me, seriously.

Well it is mostly the Wichita fans who think they are above the Valley, and their worst day was when they let in D2 schools like UNI and Evansville. And especially don't talk about football around the Wichita or Creighton fans. They claim (although I am not sure I believe them) that they would rather not have football than have "Pop Warner" football as they call it.

Some people over on MVCFans are very delusional.

[ValleyChamp]

I posted this on the Bison board, and it rings true on here.

The thing that bothers me about some of you UNI fans is that in the real world, UNI's athletic department as a whole is not at such a level that's incredibly higher than NDSU that it has any right to espouse the notion that becoming conference peers with NDSU would somehow debase the entire Panther athletic program. Last I checked, NDSU's athletic budget in 2010 was $14.3 mill. I think UNI's was around $14.7 mill. (It could have been $16 mill, unless I have mistaken it with another school). Our FB program may not perform as well as you on the field face-to-face, but we have virtaually the same budget, and we make more money on FB than you and have more FB resources. In basketball, once the SHAC is built, NDSU's BB situation will be virtually identical to UNI's in the McLeod Center, except we'll be in a much inferior conference than you. You could only dream of having our baseball park, and it is a facility that the MVC could point to and say, "THAT's the type of ballparks our baseball teams play in." We're one of the tops in DI in track and field. Currently building a new indoor facility. Overall, NDSU has an athletic commitment that if you pointed to any fan of a major school and gave them the comparison, they would say, "These two programs are pretty much the same." Yet somehow it would be an INSULT to UNI for NDSU to be invited to the Missouri Valley Conference.

I guess another way to put it is, WHERE DO YOU GET OFF thinking that the addition of NDSU (and SDSU) to the MVC would somehow be a complete DEBASEMENT of UNI athletics??

Is UNI the U of Illinois?? Is NDSU Morningside College?? No? Then GET OVER IT.

Who said any of that? Nobody. Quit your crying.

The MVC is a basketball conference (a very stable basketball conference that is not looking to expand), and nobody in the Summit is up to that MVC standard at this point. That's not a slight to NDSU or SDSU or WIU or whatever. Its just reality at this point.

If the circumstances of the MVC were a little different right now, a school like NDSU might be a good option. That's pretty much what happened for UNI 20 years ago when we joined the league. UNI was pretty much at the same level back in 1990 that NDSU is at right now, and we just got lucky because the MVC needed schools and was looking to expand. That's just not the case right now.

This has nothing to do with NDSU/UNI, even though you obviously want it to be. So I would kindly ask you to "get over it".

[darell1976]

I posted this on the Bison board, and it rings true on here.

The thing that bothers me about some of you UNI fans is that in the real world, UNI's athletic department as a whole is not at such a level that's incredibly higher than NDSU that it has any right to espouse the notion that becoming conference peers with NDSU would somehow debase the entire Panther athletic program. Last I checked, NDSU's athletic budget in 2010 was $14.3 mill. I think UNI's was around $14.7 mill. (It could have been $16 mill, unless I have mistaken it with another school). Our FB program may not perform as well as you on the field face-to-face, but we have virtaually the same budget, and we make more money on FB than you and have more FB resources. In basketball, once the SHAC is built, NDSU's BB situation will be virtually identical to UNI's in the McLeod Center, except we'll be in a much inferior conference than you. You could only dream of having our baseball park, and it is a facility that the MVC could point to and say, "THAT's the type of ballparks our baseball teams play in." We're one of the tops in DI in track and field. Currently building a new indoor facility. Overall, NDSU has an athletic commitment that if you pointed to any fan of a major school and gave them the comparison, they would say, "These two programs are pretty much the same." Yet somehow it would be an INSULT to UNI for NDSU to be invited to the Missouri Valley Conference.

I guess another way to put it is, WHERE DO YOU GET OFF thinking that the addition of NDSU (and SDSU) to the MVC would somehow be a complete DEBASEMENT of UNI athletics??

Is UNI the U of Illinois?? Is NDSU Morningside College?? No? Then GET OVER IT.

Newman Outdoor Field is great for baseball too bad floods and snow get in the way of the college season.

[TheBisonator]

Who said any of that? Nobody. Quit your crying.

The MVC is a basketball conference (a very stable basketball conference that is not looking to expand), and nobody in the Summit is up to that MVC standard at this point. That's not a slight to NDSU or SDSU or WIU or whatever. Its just reality at this point.

If the circumstances of the MVC were a little different right now, a school like NDSU might be a good option. That's pretty much what happened for UNI 20 years ago when we joined the league. UNI was pretty much at the same level back in 1990 that NDSU is at right now, and we just got lucky because the MVC needed schools and was looking to expand. That's just not the case right now.

This has nothing to do with NDSU/UNI, even though you obviously want it to be. So I would kindly ask you to "get over it".

UNI barely averages 4,500 fans per game. NDSU averaged just over 3,300 last year. We were drawing 5,000+ every game back in the 1980's, probably comparable with UNI those days.
Yes, our arena is a pile of goose feces, we know that. We're drawing as low as 2,500 to some conference games mainly because of the state of disrepair of the BSA. Your BB played in the UNI Dome for the first 15 years of your Valley existance, so that even makes me think that others in the MVC may not be as concerned with facilties as I thought. Bradley just built a new 4,000-seat arena.

And about your comments regarding basketball quality, I wish 2009's NDSU BB team (#14 seed NCAA) would have played 2009's UNI BB team (#12 NCAA). I think Woodside would have lit up UNI's D like a christmas tree.

[ValleyChamp]

UNI barely averages 4,500 fans per game. NDSU averaged just over 3,300 last year. We were drawing 5,000+ every game back in the 1980's, probably comparable with UNI those days.
Yes, our arena is a pile of goose feces, we know that. We're drawing as low as 2,500 to some conference games mainly because of the state of disrepair of the BSA. Your BB played in the UNI Dome for the first 15 years of your Valley existance, so that even makes me think that others in the MVC may not be as concerned with facilties as I thought. Bradley just built a new 4,000-seat arena.

And about your comments regarding basketball quality, I wish 2009's NDSU BB team (#14 seed NCAA) would have played 2009's UNI BB team (#12 NCAA). I think Woodside would have lit up UNI's D like a christmas tree.

As I just said in my previous post, the 1990 UNI program does not get into the MVC today. We were just lucky because at that time, the MVC needed to add schools. I do not know why you continue to take so much offense to what is being said.

Bradley just built a 4K seat arena for its Women's athletics. They play MBB in a 10K+ arena.

And yes, I'm sure NDSU would have crushed UNI in '09.xrolleyesx

[TheBisonator]

As I just said in my previous post, the 1990 UNI program does not get into the MVC today. We were just lucky because at that time, the MVC needed to add schools. I do not know why you continue to take so much offense to what is being said.

Bradley just built a 4K seat arena for its Women's athletics. They play MBB in a 10K+ arena.

And yes, I'm sure NDSU would have crushed UNI in '09.xrolleyesx

Not crushed, beat by 5-7 on a neutral court, maybe.

Thou doth underestimate the supreme talent of Ben Woodside in those days.

[344Johnson]

Woodside and Company were a legit no doubt top 50 team in the country. Don't know how, don't know why, don't really care, but that team was awesome and was capable of anything if woody was having a good night.

[TheBisonator]

Well it is mostly the Wichita fans who think they are above the Valley, and their worst day was when they let in D2 schools like UNI and Evansville. And especially don't talk about football around the Wichita or Creighton fans. They claim (although I am not sure I believe them) that they would rather not have football than have "Pop Warner" football as they call it.

Some people over on MVCFans are very delusional.

Thing about that is, where the bloody hell is Wichita State gonna go besides the MVC?? What is a better place for them?? What possible level above the MVC do they see themselves at?? Cause I don't see anything. They don't have football. The Big XII(X) isn't gonna want to go within 30 feet of them without FB. What other conference in their area is there?? Southland is garbage (in their eyes). Sun Belt is garbage (in their eyes). A-10 is too far away. What the hell else is there?? Even with FB and with a renovated Cessna Stadium and crowds of 25,000+ per game, the Big XII(X) still wouldn't be that desperate. Ya know, part of thinking you're too good for a place is knowing that there is a place where you would RATHER BE. Am I not wrong in that assessment??

Creighton's attitude kinda disappoints me, as they used to be in the NCC with NDSU and UNI waaaay back in the day. I guess it's more private school snobbery and wealth more than anything else, so I suppose I can give that a pass.

But Wichita State?? SRSLY?? If they seriously think they're too good for the Valley, they need to take a step back and look at who they are in the grand scheme of things. If all the rational NDSU fans can accept the fact that we will never be in a BCS/Power 6 conference, Wichita State fans need to do the same.

[BisonBacker]

Thing about that is, where the bloody hell is Wichita State gonna go besides the MVC?? What is a better place for them?? What possible level above the MVC do they see themselves at?? Cause I don't see anything. They don't have football. The Big XII(X) isn't gonna want to go within 30 feet of them without FB. What other conference in their area is there?? Southland is garbage (in their eyes). Sun Belt is garbage (in their eyes). A-10 is too far away. What the hell else is there?? Even with FB and with a renovated Cessna Stadium and crowds of 25,000+ per game, the Big XII(X) still wouldn't be that desperate. Ya know, part of thinking you're too good for a place is knowing that there is a place where you would RATHER BE. Am I not wrong in that assessment??

Creighton's attitude kinda disappoints me, as they used to be in the NCC with NDSU and UNI waaaay back in the day. I guess it's more private school snobbery and wealth more than anything else, so I suppose I can give that a pass.

But Wichita State?? SRSLY?? If they seriously think they're too good for the Valley, they need to take a step back and look at who they are in the grand scheme of things. If all the rational NDSU fans can accept the fact that we will never be in a BCS/Power 6 conference, Wichita State fans need to do the same.

^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Dgreenwell3]

Thing about that is, where the bloody hell is Wichita State gonna go besides the MVC?? What is a better place for them?? What possible level above the MVC do they see themselves at?? Cause I don't see anything. They don't have football. The Big XII(X) isn't gonna want to go within 30 feet of them without FB. What other conference in their area is there?? Southland is garbage (in their eyes). Sun Belt is garbage (in their eyes). A-10 is too far away. What the hell else is there?? Even with FB and with a renovated Cessna Stadium and crowds of 25,000+ per game, the Big XII(X) still wouldn't be that desperate. Ya know, part of thinking you're too good for a place is knowing that there is a place where you would RATHER BE. Am I not wrong in that assessment??

Creighton's attitude kinda disappoints me, as they used to be in the NCC with NDSU and UNI waaaay back in the day. I guess it's more private school snobbery and wealth more than anything else, so I suppose I can give that a pass.

But Wichita State?? SRSLY?? If they seriously think they're too good for the Valley, they need to take a step back and look at who they are in the grand scheme of things. If all the rational NDSU fans can accept the fact that we will never be in a BCS/Power 6 conference, Wichita State fans need to do the same.

Seems to me that Wichita State is that guy at the bar who is always trying to hype himself up so that girls will think he is cool. They are the yappy dog, constantly yapping, very little of what the loud 4.5 percent of their fan base says is reality. the rest of their fan base is fine.

[MplsBison]

Newman Outdoor Field is great for baseball too bad floods and snow get in the way of the college season.

Too bad the college season can't be played from May-Aug, as it should be.

If football players can train during those months, baseball and softball can play during those months.

[MplsBison]

Bisonator, stop pissing and moaning about not being in the MVC.

NDSU won't make more money in the MVC and it will get more NCAA tournament berths in the Summit.

[TheBisonator]

Bisonator, stop pissing and moaning about not being in the MVC.

NDSU won't make more money in the MVC and it will get more NCAA tournament berths in the Summit.

This is a very funney thing you said.

[MplsBison]

This is a very funney thing you said.

Funney?

The (sad) truth is that NDSU's avg MBB attendance won't go up by joining the MVC.

Very few MVC school fans would travel to Fargo, esp. mid-week, to watch a low to mid-major college bball game and there are very few hardcore MBB fans in Fargo. Those are the only ones who would care enough about NDSU playing some MVC team instead of a Summit team to actually show up.

Unless the MVC is going to give NDSU a bunch more money than the Summit League is giving, where is the increase in revenue going to come from?


Couple that with guaranteed fewer NCAA tournament berths for NDSU in the MVC (esp. for MBB) = very poor move.

[MplsBison]

Here's an easy example:

Feb 10, 2010 - Western ILL came to Fargo for a Summit League game. Attendance was ~2200. You're telling me that if you switched WIU with Bradley, a team 75 mi. away that averaged >8400 last season, that attendance would've been significantly higher?

Nope.

Bradley wouldn't have had any more fans in Fargo than WIU did and the same number of hardcore NDSU MBB fans would've been there. The only difference would be students, which I assume would be about the same.



So how did NDSU gain in that scenario?

[PantherRob82]

NDSU might stand to make more in NCAA.tournament revenue

[Professor Chaos]

NDSU might stand to make more in NCAA.tournament revenue
Doesn't the MVC have a TV contract with CBS? I know Arch Madness always is on CBS rather than ESPN or the regional Fox sports channels.

[BearsCountry]

Doesn't the MVC have a TV contract with CBS? I know Arch Madness always is on CBS rather than ESPN or the regional Fox sports channels.

We just redid the tv contracts. The championship game on CBS is on a sublease from ESPN.
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/5543/missouri-valley-conference-signs-five-year-agreement-with-espn/
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/5545/missouri-valley-conference-signs-three-year-agreement-with-fox/

[ValleyChamp]

The mvc has good tv contracts with fox and espn along with having arch madness on CBS.

[Professor Chaos]

We just redid the tv contracts. The championship game on CBS is on a sublease from ESPN.
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/5543/missouri-valley-conference-signs-five-year-agreement-with-espn/
http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/5545/missouri-valley-conference-signs-three-year-agreement-with-fox/


The mvc has good tv contracts with fox and espn along with having arch madness on CBS.
Thanks.

There's exhibit A on why the MVC is a much better league financially than the Summit. The Summit gives away TV rights to anyone who wants to broadcast them. I believe ESPN has the rights to all the conference tournament games but doesn't care if another provider wants to pick up any game except for the championship game.

Summit league (1 national TV game) <<<<<<<< MVC (40+ national TV games)

[BearsCountry]

Here would be a home hypotheical basketball schedule for NDSU if say you and the Bunnies joined.

South Dakota State
Creighton
Drake
Northern Iowa
Wichita State
and then pick 3 of Bradley, Illinois State, Evansville, Indiana State, Missouri State or SIU. You can't say with a straight face that attendance wouldn't go up.

[LakesBison]

if NDSU was in MVC basketball ATTENDENCE WOULD GO UP DRAMATICALLY (average fans want better competition) & NDSU would make more money with TV contract, NCAA tourney money and attendence DUH!

now, too many Yuppy schools in MVC that will cry like lil kids to keep NDSU out, they dont want to lose to NDSU.

the SUMMIT will pick up Eastern Illinois or stay at 9 and survive just fine.

[Dgreenwell3]

if NDSU was in MVC basketball ATTENDENCE WOULD GO UP DRAMATICALLY (average fans want better competition) & NDSU would make more money with TV contract, NCAA tourney money and attendence DUH!

now, too many Yuppy schools in MVC that will cry like lil kids to keep NDSU out, they dont want to lose to NDSU.

the SUMMIT will pick up Eastern Illinois or stay at 9 and survive just fine.
Didn't your team go 8-10 in the summit last year? You guys were good two years ago, no doubt but don't get too over the edge. MVC basketball is a step above the Summit, no one walks in and dominates.

[BearsCountry]

no one walks in and dominates.

Wait wasn't NDSU suppose to do that in football as well.

[LakesBison]

We are, #2, soon to be #1 after UNI game.

[344Johnson]

Wait wasn't NDSU suppose to do that in football as well.

People assumed, myself included, that we were still going to be as good as we were in '06 and '07. Those years we would have rocked in any FCS conference.

[Dgreenwell3]

We are, #2, soon to be #1 after UNI game.

Before you talk too much smack why don't you let the game play itself out?

[Hammerhead]

NDSU finished ahead of every team in the Missouri Valley Conference for last year's director's cup. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2010-11/misc_non_event/finald12011.pdf


Wait wasn't NDSU suppose to do that in football as well.

[LakesBison]

hammerhead OHHHH SNAP!!

[darell1976]

Didn't your team go 8-10 in the summit last year? You guys were good two years ago, no doubt but don't get too over the edge. MVC basketball is a step above the Summit, no one walks in and dominates.

2008-09 was the last time NDSU had a winning record in men's basketball (11-18 in 2009-10, and 14-15 in 10-11). Need to improve first before talking about dominating a mid-major conference.

[BearsCountry]

NDSU finished ahead of every team in the Missouri Valley Conference for last year's director's cup. http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/2010-11/misc_non_event/finald12011.pdf

Congratulations on having a strong women's athletic program that dominated the Summit League. Of course in two of those sports you won, the MVC sent multiple teams to the NCAAs (volleyball and softball).

[344Johnson]

Before you talk too much smack why don't you let the game play itself out?

Thats not how Lakes works.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Did NDSU beat UNI in volleyball this year?

[Twentysix]

This is a football forum. Volleyball... wow take that to another subsection.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Then why is someone bringing up the directors cup?

[UNIFanSince1983]

In all honesty, though, with the way the rivalry is brewing in football I would love to have NDSU in the Valley for all sports. It seems like we don't have a true rival in the conference, and I think you guys could be it. Obviously, it appears as if it will not happen anytime soon, but I personally would not be opposed to it.

[LakesBison]

ndsu lost to UNI in 5 sets on last set score of 25-23 !!

[DOME]

ndsu lost to UNI in 5 sets on last set score of 25-23 !!


Bring your weak olympic sports to the Valley.

I can see you wanting to get in, I mean MBB did bring in $5mill + of tourney money this year. Though we need to get four in and win a few games this year to keep it up.

[SDFS]

Woodside and Company were a legit no doubt top 50 team in the country. Don't know how, don't know why, don't really care, but that team was awesome and was capable of anything if woody was having a good night.

RPI rating for 86 for the NDSU and 61 for UNI.

[344Johnson]

RPI rating for 86 for the NDSU and 61 for UNI.

Don't care, Woodside and Company were good. Very good.

[UNIFanSince1983]

That was a pretty good UNI team too, but they were obviously a year away from greatness (see 2010 Sweet Sixteen).

[SDFS]

I posted this on the Bison board, and it rings true on here.

The thing that bothers me about some of you UNI fans is that in the real world, UNI's athletic department as a whole is not at such a level that's incredibly higher than NDSU that it has any right to espouse the notion that becoming conference peers with NDSU would somehow debase the entire Panther athletic program. Last I checked, NDSU's athletic budget in 2010 was $14.3 mill. I think UNI's was around $14.7 mill. (It could have been $16 mill, unless I have mistaken it with another school).

MVC cares about basketball and baseball: xDSU are in the middle of the Summit in terms of budget for basketball.

Summit
$2,090,174 Oral Roberts
$1,456,339 Missouri-Kansas City
$1,392,896 Oakland
$1,194,554 IUPUI
$1,029,535 North Dakota State
$921,681 Western Illinois
$865,143 South Dakota State
$786,554 IPFW
$756,006 Southern Utah

Which is at the very bottom for the MVC

MVC
$5,032,173 Creighton
$3,220,886 Wichita State
$2,937,206 Bradley
$2,168,174 Southern Illinois
$2,053,256 Drake
$1,973,250 Northern Iowa
$1,887,713 Illinois State
$1,885,565 Evansville
$1,872,907 Missouri State
$1,340,015 Indiana State

Both xDSU will need to continue developing the basketball side of the Athletic Departments.



In basketball, once the SHAC is built, NDSU's BB situation will be virtually identical to UNI's in the McLeod Center, except we'll be in a much inferior conference than you. You could only dream of having our baseball park, and it is a facility that the MVC could point to and say, "THAT's the type of ballparks our baseball teams play in." We're one of the tops in DI in track and field. Currently building a new indoor facility. Overall, NDSU has an athletic commitment that if you pointed to any fan of a major school and gave them the comparison, they would say, "These two programs are pretty much the same." Yet somehow it would be an INSULT to UNI for NDSU to be invited to the Missouri Valley Conference.

The Bison Sports Arena facility at NDSU holds 5,800. An upgrade to the Bison Sports Arena project has been the number 1 priority in the NDSU Campus Master Plan since the 2003-05 biennium. It will hold approximately 5,700 when completed. NDSU had a total attendance number of 43,000 last year for an average of 3,300 - NOTE: approximately 1/4 of the total season attendance came from a game against UND 10,000. The MVC average attendance is 6,831. So, after it is updated it will still be small by MVC standards. Currently, only three MVC arenas hold less than 10,000 (SIU 9,800, UNI 7,100 and Drake 7,000).

Link to current BSA: http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&ATCLID=69829

Link to renovation pics: http://www.worldinteriordesignnetwork.com/news/ndsu_to_build_new_indoor_facility_near_bison_sport s_arena_110120/

In 8 years of fundraising they have raised 20 of 32 million dollars for the project.

http://www.wday.com/event/article/id/50630/

After you see the attendance number you understand why Creighton and WSU have a lot of power within the conference. I believe that Creighton and WSC have very strong baseball programs.

MVC Attendance:
Creighton 13,507
Wichita State 10,428
Bradley 8,447
Missouri State 7,595
Indiana State 5,602
Evansville 4,910
Northern Iowa 4,767
Illinois State 4,636
Drake 4,230
Southern Illinois 4,188

The City of Fargo does have a very nice baseball stadium that NDSU uses but the weather in ND really limits the spring time usage which is unfortunate. I wish the NCAA would move the season more toward summer.

In summary, the xDSU have a great thing going and they are doing a great job moving into D1. But, I am not sure that they are ready for the MVC.

[UNH Fanboi]

I had never heard of IUPUI before reading this thread. What a terrible name.

[darell1976]

I had never heard of IUPUI before reading this thread. What a terrible name.

Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis-IUPUI, and IPFW-Indiana Purdue Fort Wayne. Just call it the alphabet soup league.

[joeybrownerhof]

Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis-IUPUI, and IPFW-Indiana Purdue Fort Wayne. Just call it the alphabet soup league.

And yet that same league has a higher RPI rating over 4 of the last 5 years than the Big Fluffy.

[LakesBison]

once again, the dufus types in a thread that he shouldnt. summit RPI is just fine for a mid major, big fluffy not so much.

[darell1976]

And yet that same league has a higher RPI rating over 4 of the last 5 years than the Big Fluffy.

When UND joins that RPI will rise!!xthumbsupx

[Dgreenwell3]

Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis-IUPUI, and IPFW-Indiana Purdue Fort Wayne. Just call it the alphabet soup league.
IUPUI is actually a damn good school academically. People call it, ew e poo e. Yeah, it isn't the best school name ever.

[darell1976]

once again, the dufus types in a thread that he shouldnt. summit RPI is just fine for a mid major, big fluffy not so much.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major


The term mid-major is sometimes used to describe all of the other 25 conferences not normally considered to be a major conference. Most of the time, though, the term is specifically applied to only the non-BCS conferences that consistently produce quality teams. Often the definition of a basketball mid-major will be of a conference that can put up at least one at-large bid in the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament as well as have a team or teams advance fairly regularly, while not garnering the attention and television dollars of a major conference.

So-called mid-major (non-BCS) basketball programs generally belong to one of the following nine conferences, although some of these conferences, including the Mountain West, Conference USA, and the Atlantic 10 may not be considered mid-majors depending on who one asks.[5][6][7][8][9][10]:
Atlantic 10 Conference (A-10)
Colonial Athletic Association (CAA)
Conference USA (C-USA)
Horizon League
Mid-American Conference (MAC)
Missouri Valley Conference (MVC)
Mountain West Conference (MWC)
West Coast Conference (WCC)
Western Athletic Conference (WAC)


Nope..didn't see the Summit in the Mid-Major list.

[darell1976]

IUPUI is actually a damn good school academically. People call it, ew e poo e. Yeah, it isn't the best school name ever.

Why does Purdue have to be associated with these schools what about IUI- or Indianapolis State?

[joeybrownerhof]

When UND joins that RPI will rise!!xthumbsupx


current poop + new poop = Bigger poop

[Dgreenwell3]

Why does Purdue have to be associated with these schools what about IUI- or Indianapolis State?

It is a combined school, iupui has probably the best medical program in the state along with excercise science and electronics Is a BIG deal there. May be the nicest campus in the state.

[darell1976]

It is a combined school, iupui has probably the best medical program in the state along with excercise science and electronics Is a BIG deal there. May be the nicest campus in the state.

Thanks for the info!!

[LakesBison]

zzzzzzzzz MVFC is going nowhere

[Dgreenwell3]

zzzzzzzzz MVFC is going nowhere

?

[Twentysix]

Doesnt IUPUI have that school for gifted kids?

Kids who are doing graduate work by age 12 or something?

I wouldnt knock ooeypooey.

[Dgreenwell3]

Doesnt IUPUI have that school for gifted kids?

Kids who are doing graduate work by age 12 or something?

I wouldnt knock ooeypooey.

Not sure. It's a great school academically...ron hunter just left there to go to Georgia state, (really????) but they have had a pro or 2 come out of their doors recently. (a la Pacers guard George Hill)