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Lehigh Football Nation
April 12th, 2005, 08:42 PM
This needs discussion.

1) There's recommendations that possibly non-scholly and limited scholly programs have their own postseason. Good or bad idea? To me it sounds like a good idea - but the problem is the limited number of these types of programs.

2) There's a recommendation to incease the travel stipend for schools competing in the I-AA playoffs. A hearty "yea" to that in my mind.

3) The I-A limitation against playing I-AA's not counting against their bowl eligibility is to be lifted. However, there's a key proviso saing that the school must offer at least 56.5 scholarships limit in order to qualify. (I'm going by memory here, so don't shoot me if the number isn't right.) If I understand correctly, that means games versus Patriot League schools would count against I-A schools? PL schools carry scholly-equivalents, for one, and for two I'm not sure if these equivalents exceed the magic number.

4) Are these recommendations just a bunch of hot air?

yomama
April 12th, 2005, 09:58 PM
1)Hot air.

3)The only rationale I can think of is the lowest number of equivalencies carried by a Patriot League champion since the PL got an automatic playoff bid.:dizzy:

arkstfan
April 13th, 2005, 01:10 AM
1. Good idea if there are enough willing to play. Right now I'd say it'd be hard to justify more than a 4 team event.

2. Good proposal.

3. The magic number is 56.7 average over 2 years so you were durn close. Just a good philosophical move (actually that's the same as the current 1 in 4 rule) because it encourages high scholie ball.

Lehigh Football Nation
April 13th, 2005, 09:54 AM
I like the recommendations in general. However, I'd like to know if this 56.7 schollies limit would exclude some, if not all, PL schools from scheduling I-AA's?

I don't know where to look; and I don't know if by "scholarships" they mean "scholarship equivalents" as well.

colgate13
April 13th, 2005, 10:09 AM
I like the recommendations in general. However, I'd like to know if this 56.7 schollies limit would exclude some, if not all, PL schools from scheduling I-AA's?

I'm pretty sure the mean equivalents. The NCAA always talks in equivalents.

And Colgate would count... I bet Lehigh, Bucknell and Lafayette would too - if not the whole league..

Marcus Garvey
April 14th, 2005, 09:37 AM
So would this mean Wofford would be left in the dust with respect to I-A games? I believe they only offer 50 scholarsips. What about the New England A-10/CAA schools? URI will probably reduce scholarships. I wouldn't be surprised to see UNH and Maine follow suit, and UMass is always looking at ways to reduce their athletic budget.

Lehigh Football Nation
April 14th, 2005, 09:50 AM
So would this mean Wofford would be left in the dust with respect to I-A games? I believe they only offer 50 scholarsips. What about the New England A-10/CAA schools? URI will probably reduce scholarships. I wouldn't be surprised to see UNH and Maine follow suit, and UMass is always looking at ways to reduce their athletic budget.

This is exactly what I mean. The recommendation is there at 56.7. But doesn't that mean that the institutions themselves have to look at their programs to see how many schollies they offer?

This could put pressure on some schools to add more schollies (or scholly-equivalents) and put pressure on others to reduce schollies. Not everyone will want to go for a I-A payday, but you can bet if (say) UConn has the option of scheduling (to take a fictitious example) 57-scholly Illinois St. versus 50-scholly-equivalent Lehigh, I know who they'd choose.

faxjusfax
April 14th, 2005, 12:49 PM
1) There's recommendations that possibly non-scholly and limited scholly programs have their own postseason. Good or bad idea? To me it sounds like a good idea - but the problem is the limited number of these types of programs.


I agree with arkstfan on making this a 4-team event. Winners of the NEC, Pioneer and MAAC, plus one at large.

2) There's a recommendation to incease the travel stipend for schools competing in the I-AA playoffs. A hearty "yea" to that in my mind.

Hell yea!

Paladin1aa
April 14th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Ditto.

colgate13
April 14th, 2005, 02:20 PM
I think I'm against it. If they need their own championship, perhaps they should have their own division? Stop calling them I-AA if they can't/won't compete in I-AA.

colgate13
April 14th, 2005, 02:33 PM
well if they separate themselves enough, then I'm on board. But as long as they are still grouped with us...sorry. one division, one playoff.

arkstfan
April 14th, 2005, 02:41 PM
I think I'm against it. If they need their own championship, perhaps they should have their own division? Stop calling them I-AA if they can't/won't compete in I-AA.

Colgate back in the age of dinosaurs I-AA was a bit more logical. Other than the Ivy everyone was offering a fairly high level of aid, whether it was the traditional scholarship model or the Patriot's need based model.

After much complaint by Division III who feared that Dayton and Georgetown would be dominant because of recruiting visits to big time basketball games, so everyone playing Division III and II football who played Division I basketball got shipped to I-AA. Not like they wanted to be I-AA nor that I-AA wanted them, just the way it happened.

Those schools had playoff access in Division II and III and since have essentially had no post-season access.

colgate13
April 14th, 2005, 03:03 PM
oh I agree, but the times have change. Schools can choose to change with them OR the NCAA can choose to accomodate its members with their own division. The current scenario might be the worst of all.

G'Town is an example of a school that has decided to change with the times.

yomama
April 14th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Georgetown could afford to offer significant football aid and move to the Patriot League. Most schools labeled mid-major cannot.

I'm sure Georgetown is happy with the "move up," but they haven't yet been able to offer enough aid to be competitive in the PL.

Changing with the times is expensive. The NCAA keeps the pressure on to spend more.

Marcus Garvey
April 14th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Georgetown could afford to offer significant football aid and move to the Patriot League. Most schools labeled mid-major cannot.


If it weren't for G'towns basketball program, they'd be a perfect fit in the Patriot for all sports. However, why in the hell would they give up the revenue they earn playing men's basketball in the Big East. They could never go to the NCAA tourament ever again, and being in the Big East would be a better deal for them financially.

Lehigh Football Nation
April 15th, 2005, 12:14 AM
The first results are in from the NCAA Website. (http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/association_updates/2005/april/0412_D1MC.html)


Among proposals approved at the Division I Management Councilís meeting April 11 was one to allow Division I institutions to conduct a 12th regular-season football game every year beginning in 2006. The proposal still must be approved by the Division I Board of Directors in two weeks before it can become effective.

The 12-game proposal, considered somewhat controversial when it was introduced six months ago, passed with little fanfare, garnering no debate after being moved, and receiving a 21.5-3 voting margin in Division I-A and a 7-5 result in Division I-AA.

Currently, Division I football teams play 11 regular-season games in years except when there are 14 Saturdays from the first permissible playing date through the last playing date in November. Legislation was approved three years ago to allow for 12 games in such years (2002 and 2003 seasons were 12-game seasons; the next would be in 2008 if the 12-game proposal is not approved).

...

Council members also approved two key financial aid proposals that enhance student-athlete well-being. One, Proposal No. 02-82, allows football and basketball student-athletes who receive only nonathletically related institutional aid to compete without counting in the institutionís financial aid limits. The Division I Student-Athlete Advisory Committee has been emphatic in its support of this measure for two years, claiming that recruited student-athletes in football and basketball who do not receive athletically related aid should be treated the same as such student-athletes in other sports (by not counting toward team aid limits).

The Council supported another financial aid proposal (No. 03-23-A) that permits student-athletes in equivalency sports to receive institutional academic-based aid without that aid counting toward team limits. That prevents student-athletes who are offered both athletics-based and nonathletically related aid from having to turn down the latter to avoid hurting the team. The Division I SAAC has been a strong proponent of this proposal as well.

A big "good" on the financial aid pieces. Would think this would help I-AA scholly programs across the board.

On the 12-game limit - the final vote will *surprise* you.

A-10 - N
Big Sky - Y
Ivy - N :rolleyes:
MEAC - Y
NEC - N
OVC - Y
Patriot - N
SWAC -Y
SoCon - Y
Southland - Y
I-AA At-large - 1 Y, 1 N

(I'm assuming that one of the Gateway reps is one of these at-large folks.)

A-10 with a 'no' vote? I was shocked. I thought one of the biggest *benefactors* of the 12-game plan was the A-10/CAA?

89Hen
April 15th, 2005, 07:43 AM
I thought one of the biggest *benefactors* of the 12-game plan was the A-10/CAA?

Why? I'm not saying they wouldn't benefit, but curious as to why you say that. The A10 is one of the conferences that often gets three bids. With a 12th game if more of their teams opt to play a I-A game, they could conceivably lose one of their bids. From a financial standpoint, they don't gain any more benefit than the SoCon, BSC, Southland.... from playing a 12th game. But I don't know why the A10 voted no.

89Hen
April 15th, 2005, 07:44 AM
the NCAA NON/LOW SCHOLARSHIP FOOTBALL CHAMPIONSHIP TOURNAMENT (they have to work on that name though).

What's wrong with that name? The NCAANLSFCT sounds good to me.

colgate13
April 15th, 2005, 08:24 AM
What's wrong with that name? The NCAANLSFCT sounds good to me.
D III has the "Stagg Bowl".

How about the "No Dough Bowl"?

HensRock
April 15th, 2005, 09:26 AM
I'm not surprised actually. Most of the A-10 schools are trying to reduce the costs of their football programs. An extra game means extra travel. An extra Away game every odd year is a cost which most A10 institutions could not recoup by the additional home game gate revenue every even year.

Paladin1aa
April 15th, 2005, 09:31 AM
Then don't play 12.

bisonguy
April 15th, 2005, 09:59 AM
What's wrong with that name? The NCAANLSFCT sounds good to me.

Only problem I see is that the NCAA refers to it as athletically related financial aid, so it should be the NCAANLARFAFCT. This also gives you a better acronym.