Question for all FBS wannabes

[dgtw]

A number of teams on the FCS level have expressed desire about moving up to the FCS level.

For the fans of these schools. how important is possible conference membership to you?

Would you only be happy if you got in one of the upper level non-BCS leagues? In other words, would you only want to make the move if you got into C-USA or the MWC? Would joining the Sun Belt, MAC or WAC be considered a step down and you'd just as soon stay where you are?

Would you be interested if your school and a few like minded others moved up as a group and formed a new FBS league, provding the NCAA approved? Perhaps snagging a couple of FBS teams in your area that might be interested?

I'm sure this has been discussed at length in other threads, but just wondered what everyone's opinion was.

As a Jax State fan, I'd be happy with a move up to the Sun Belt. Travel would be a little better, there would be two in state rivals, including getting Troy back on the schedule. Only one non football member. I don't think the competion would be much tougher once they got up to 85 scholarships and they'd have a shot at going to a bowl game.

[Smitty]

Hmm I give this thread about a half a day before the SoCon talk sends it to the smack boards

I don't really see Western moving up until they can actually pull off a few more than a couple wins in a season. Hopefully that will be soon. If App moves up and Georgia Southern, it would probably take WCU about 15 years before we would start considering that. Of course that number is just a random number.

[HighCountry]

I would like a move up, with C-USA being the #1 feasible choice in conference (or a new conf. formed by some c-usa and upper level FCS teamsxrolleyesx) . If it came down to the Sun Belt or staying in the Socon I would choose a national championship run over a bottom tier bowl game.

[TheRevSFA]

I would not, at all, desire a move to the WAC

[Side Judge]

I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, how'd it work out for Marshall? Both in terms of prestige and finances?

Or look at UConn as perhaps the ultimate case - they make it to a BCS bowl and take a huge bath without any noticable PR gain outside of Storrs...

Works much better in basketball, where a mid-major (Bradley, VCU, Mason, etc.) can make it to the BCS bowl equivalent Final Four and get a month of glory at a pretty reasonable price - GMU will get a decade's worth of value out of their 2006 run even with Jim L leaving...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

There is nothing about FBS that I think is a good move unless your team is in the power conferences or in Montana's case would have a shot at the MWC. I wouldn't even put the MWC as a better situation necessarily as much as it would keep me at the interest level that I already enjoy with UM Football.

[dgtw]

UConn had a sweet deal as they got a spot in a BCS league simply by decding to offer 85 scholarships. Villanova has the same offer on the table.

Obviously, nobody is going to get into a BCS league. I do think Charlotte might have a shot at the Big East. I say this because the BE mindset values market shares more than football tradition. On another board I post on a Rutgers fan could not understand why the Big Ten took Nebraska over them. He also told me the SEC should take South Florida for the Tampa market. I think TCU going there had more to do with Dallas/Fort Worth than what TCU has done on the field.

[TexasTerror]

SHSU fans stated in the study that we prefer C-USA or Sun Belt membership.

We are not exactly ready for FBS at this point - but changes in the SLC membership is going to ultimately be what forces our hands - both schools that have moved "up" (i.e. UT-Arlington, TXST, UT-San Antonio) plus schools that could move down...

[Side Judge]

I think the ACC's wide open at some point for new members - if not now, then when the next major conference reshuffling occurs - at some point there will be a major BCS consolidation to ensure that the winners of 2 AL/NL type conferences compete for the national championship without risking a TCU or Boise State crashing the party. When that occurs I could see the ACC losing Miami, Florida State, Tech, and maybe Boston College to the new BCS East conference, and then needing eastern teams to back fill. Same for the PAC 10 when the new BCS West conference forms.

Pure speculation, but some form of this is coming...

[lucchesicourt]

Now that UC Davis has a home in the Big Sky, I see no reason to move to FBS. But, when the Big Sky had dissed us and Cal Poly, it only left the FBS as an option or drop football as there were no other FCS conferences around ( D2 was no longer an option in CA, as there were few D2 teams left in the area). We were basically fish without water. Now, as Big Sky football only members we are quite pleased at UCD and I assume Cal Poly is too.

[jmufan999]

I'm going to make my points before rufus chimes in. Just to make it clear, I'm not getting in a 5 page war about this.

I see WHY JMU would want to move up. The same reason everyone wants to move up: money.

I could care less about this. I think the idea of going undefeated and being left out of even COMPETING for a national title is pointless. Until there is an FBS playoff, I have NO interest in joining a non-BCS conference. Unfortunately, it's not up to me and we will probably join a lower tier conference. And people will say, "Oh you can just dominate your league and move to a better one!" Easier said than done. I hate the idea that we could join a league where the ultimate prize for going undefeated is to play in the Liberty Bowl. That's your reward. Goody.

[TheRevSFA]

this is just leading to an oversaturation of teams at that level...

[superman7515]

A number of teams on the FCS level have expressed desire about moving up to the FCS level.

The administration, coaches, etc have never expressed any interest in Delaware moving up. The fans who have are generally denigrated. Those who don't immediately disparage them tend to have a holier than thou attitude that it's BCS or nothing. Now, that's not every single one of them, but it is the general consensus.

[TheRevSFA]

A number of teams on the FCS level have expressed desire about moving up to the FCS level.

I hope a number of FCS teams are interested in being FCS :D

[ASUG8]

I don't think ASU, GSU, or JMU really have a good place to land IMO. Sun Belt certainly isn't a promotion, and Conference USA is so geographically spread out it would erode most teams' fanbase - plus, I can't get excited about the competition aside from a rekindled rivalry with ECU. Personally, I'd rather continue playing at the FCS level and be able to attend most games than only go to the home schedule.

[TheValleyRaider]

I do think Charlotte might have a shot at the Big East. I say this because the BE mindset values market shares more than football tradition. On another board I post on a Rutgers fan could not understand why the Big Ten took Nebraska over them. He also told me the SEC should take South Florida for the Tampa market. I think TCU going there had more to do with Dallas/Fort Worth than what TCU has done on the field.

The Big East values that sort of thing because it becomes the only way to justify an expansive footprint. There aren't really a series of attractive options for the Big East if they want to expand the conference, so when looking further out from the Northeast additional TV revenue becomes part of the equation. I'm not shocked a Rutgers fan would go to TV revenue first as it's about the only thing that would make them an attractive add for a conference (especially compared to Nebraska)

As for TCU joining the Big East, their Texas location certainly didn't hurt their chances of inclusion, but those conversations simply don't take place if the Frogs weren't the top-tier team they have been for the last 3 seasons

[Blueandwhitefightfight]

Some things to consider:

- FBS conferences play the other sports too. Not just football. For instance, moving from the SoCon to the Sun Belt is a very minimal step up in football. It would be a step up in baseball and basketball though. Even though the SoCon is strong in both baseball and basketball, the Sun Belt offers a higher level of competition across the board.

- App. and GSU could do very well straight out of the gate in the Sun Belt because of the already high level of performance combined with the transition period and addition of the extra scholarships. Facility wise, both schools would fit in the Sun Belt currently and have plans to be C-USA worthy within 10-15 years.

- GSU needs to do something. It's the fastest growing school in the state. When I was a freshman in 2005, there was just over 14K students. They are planning to break 20K this year. We are the Auburn or Clemson of Georgia when it comes to everything BUT Academics. Students are calling for the move.

- Jeff Monken wants to be the coach to take us to FBS. He is the sort of guy you build a program around. App. is ready to go. When App. leaves, we will not be content just hangin out in the SoCon sans App.

- Ga. St. and JMU are also postering themselves for a move.

[citdog]

to all of those who want to secede I say JUST ****ING DO IT ALREADY. I USED TO ACTUALLY LIKE appy state BUT THAT DAY IS RAPIDLY DRAWING TO A CLOSE. SECEDE OR SHUT THE **** UP!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

to all of those who want to secede I say JUST ****ING DO IT ALREADY. I USED TO ACTUALLY LIKE appy state BUT THAT DAY IS RAPIDLY DRAWING TO A CLOSE. SECEDE OR SHUT THE **** UP!

Dog, I don't think there has been one Apper on this thread with that....yet.

[citdog]

Dog, I don't think there has been one Apper on this thread with that....yet.

I was only using them as an example of HOW NOT to win friends and influence people.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I was only using them as an example of HOW NOT to win friends and influence people.

Got it, but maybe leaving that dog lie for a while on this one would have also served the self well in the regard you just espoused Mr. Carnegie?xlolx

[citdog]

Got it, but maybe leaving that dog lie for a while on this one would have also served the self well in the regard you just espoused Mr. Carnegie?xlolx

kiss my apphole

[ursus arctos horribilis]

kiss my apphole

gross

[Saint3333]

I was only using them as an example of HOW NOT to win friends and influence people.

How did that 80's drug commercial go?

I learned by watching you...

Back to the topic, until there is a shake up in the Big East, Big 12-2, etc. there will be no movement of east coast FCS teams. As soon as this happens however, I'd say a minimum of four programs make the jump. My ideal situation, which isn't very likely and may be impossible would be for ODU, JMU, ASU, UNCC, Ga St., GSU, to form a conference (or a division of a conference) at the FBS level.

If the Big East raids CUSA which raids the Sun Belt maybe this could happen.

Until then let's win SoCon championships and FCS titles.

[citdog]

How did that 80's drug commercial go?

I learned by watching you...

.


How TRUE! It's nice to know that I am SUCH a big influence! MORE than your Daddy or Jeebus!

[Skjellyfetti]

how important is possible conference membership to you?

Very.


Would you only be happy if you got in one of the upper level non-BCS leagues? In other words, would you only want to make the move if you got into C-USA or the MWC? Would joining the Sun Belt, MAC or WAC be considered a step down and you'd just as soon stay where you are?

I would jump to C-USA at the drop of the hat.

I don't think Sun Belt, MAC, or the WAC is worth it, though. I don't think those conferences would be a step down... but, it would be close to a lateral move, with the expenses going wayyyy up. Not worth it.


Would you be interested if your school and a few like minded others moved up as a group and formed a new FBS league, provding the NCAA approved? Perhaps snagging a couple of FBS teams in your area that might be interested?

Yes. I'd be interested in making a move with Georgia Southern, some of the CAA schools looking to move, and maybe a couple others. I'd want it to be regional, competitive, preferably with some already established rivalries... (ECU, Marshall, JMU, Georgia Southern, etc.).



I would also love App to move to the CAA if Sun Belt, MAC, etc. are the only options in FBS.

[Steve81]

Now that UC Davis has a home in the Big Sky, I see no reason to move to FBS. But, when the Big Sky had dissed us and Cal Poly, it only left the FBS as an option or drop football as there were no other FCS conferences around ( D2 was no longer an option in CA, as there were few D2 teams left in the area). We were basically fish without water. Now, as Big Sky football only members we are quite pleased at UCD and I assume Cal Poly is too.Very glad you found a solid home. This is one of the biggest issues for a number of teams, what full 65 scholarship conferences are around you and are they high quality. That was our issue, the league, which we where a founding member (Yankee Conference) became a southern conference in the CAA with no signs of replacing the depleted CAA North. There are no other high quality full scholarship FCS conferences around. We looked around, reached out to other leagues and ultimately Temple decision to stay put in the MAC and not move to CUSA made the decision easy. Think it has to be based on individual schools situations and fan support.

The majority of UMass fans are happy about the move to the MAC. The projections are we will initially loose more than the current 3 million, but after a few years be at the 3 million loss area and then potential to close the gap with fan support. There is the respect issue and the Boston Media and excuse of not covering us since we where not an FBS school as Boston College. We are moving to a non AQ league and will be fighting for respect every game.

[citdog]

Very glad you found a solid home. This is one of the biggest issues for a number of teams, what full 65 scholarship conferences are around you and are they high quality. That was our issue, the league, which we where a founding member (Yankee Conference) became a southern conference in the CAA with no signs of replacing the depleted CAA North. There are no other high quality full scholarship FCS conferences around. We looked around, reached out to other leagues and ultimately Temple decision to stay put in the MAC and not move to CUSA made the decision easy. Think it has to be based on individual schools situations and fan support.

The majority of UMass fans are happy about the move to the MAC. The projections are we will initially loose more than the current 3 million, but after a few years be at the 3 million loss area and then potential to close the gap with fan support. There is the respect issue and the Boston Media and excuse of not covering us since we where not an FBS school as Boston College. We are moving to a non AQ league and will be fighting for respect every game.

you'll be boston university in 15 years and be quitting football. how can a State university, EVEN IN THAT COMMUNIST UTOPIA, explain LOSING 3 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON FOOTBALL?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The administration, coaches, etc have never expressed any interest in Delaware moving up. The fans who have are generally denigrated. Those who don't immediately disparage them tend to have a holier than thou attitude that it's BCS or nothing. Now, that's not every single one of them, but it is the general consensus.

In an ideal world, I think Delaware would be a perfect fit for the ACC, at least in football. The reality is that some of our other sports programs need work, most notably men's basketball which has been middling at best since moving from the America East to the CAA, and while the CAA isn't a bad basketball league, it isn't the A-10, and certainly isn't the Big East or ACC.

I don't want to see UD get lost in one of the lesser FBS conferences. With the CAA consistently being the strongest FCS conference we might actually lose some notoriety moving to the MAC. That being said, if there was a clear plan in place, with funds already set aside for UD to jump to FBS by using the MAC as a stepping stone to either the Big East or ACC, I would be for it. If we have to spend five years in the MAC, so be it, if we're talking about ten or twenty years, I'd rather us stay at the top of the FCS heap.

[Steve81]

you'll be boston university in 15 years and be quitting football. how can a State university, EVEN IN THAT COMMUNIST UTOPIA, explain LOSING 3 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON FOOTBALL?How much does a few 3 hour long commercials cost. It's marketing for the school, connection for the alums and a lot of fun. How do you justify cross county and track and field and other non revenue sports.

Back to your assertion that we'd be like BU. I’d take that bet, we are not a private school like BU and we’ve been playing football since 1879. We played in 3 bowl games before the formation of 1AA.

UMass Football Wiki Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMass_Minutemen_football)

Many states are larger than Massachusetts and share Division 1 Sports with multiple directional or city named Universities. UMass and Massachusetts is very different as only the flagship has Division 1 Basketball, Football, Lacrosse, Softball, Field Hockey, and Rowing. It was fairly recently, 2003 that Lowell Tech, Boston State, and Southeastern Massachusetts where renamed UMass-Lowell, UMass-Boston, and UMass-Dartmouth, plus UMass Medical in Worcester and the flagship UMass in Amherst.

When I talk to a Lowell Tech graduate, he will say that he is from UMass as well, but it’s Lowell and does that count. My reply is sure we are all UMass, especially with sports. The union is still fairly new and recently even the “University of Massachusetts Club” is opening up to all campuses. There is synergy combining the five schools under the UMass umbrella with only the flagship having Division 1 Sports. We are just starting to hit critical mass financially and making in roads political with a new law school. Our current Chancellor Holub, who have tremendous respect, had unfavorable information by the Board of Trustees leaked to the Boston Globe. (The Board of Trustees are political and not pro UMass.) Years ago he would be gone by now, but alumnus have written to their legislators. We are a small state and just now hitting a half billion in endowment.

There is only one UMass proudly wearing the state name on our jerseys.
http://www.clubcorp.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/clubs/university-of-massachusetts-media-folder/images/about-the-club/general-information/the-university-of-massachusetts-club-boston-ma-entrance-560x410.jpg/1109304-1-eng-US/The-University-of-Massachusetts-Club-Boston-MA-entrance-560x410.jpg_singleImage.jpg
Link to the University of Massachusetts Club on the 33rd Floor Overlloking the Boston Harbor (http://www.clubcorp.com/Clubs/University-of-Massachusetts-Club)

[lucchesicourt]

Steve81,
A school needs to do what is good for the school and not worry about the other schools. I have found that to succeed in sports you need rivalries, a conference, and playoff (or some sort of potential bonus at the end of the season). UCD had none., so that was leaving the only option to move to FBS or discontinue football. So, UCD was looking at FBS, because it offered a conference, local rivalries, and a bonus at the end. FCS was offering NOTHING. That was until the BSC offered a football only or all sport positions to soon to be former GWFC teams. The GWFC was not going to survive as a football conference very long IMO.
I wish UMass the best of luck.

[darell1976]

Unless UND plays in a big bowl game (Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, Rose) or FBS has a playoff I hope UND stays put in the Big Sky. There is no zest for being in a conference like the WAC and playing in the New Mexico Bowl or something like that.

[Dane96]

Very glad you found a solid home. This is one of the biggest issues for a number of teams, what full 65 scholarship conferences are around you and are they high quality. That was our issue, the league, which we where a founding member (Yankee Conference) became a southern conference in the CAA with no signs of replacing the depleted CAA North. There are no other high quality full scholarship FCS conferences around. We looked around, reached out to other leagues and ultimately Temple decision to stay put in the MAC and not move to CUSA made the decision easy. Think it has to be based on individual schools situations and fan support.

The majority of UMass fans are happy about the move to the MAC. The projections are we will initially loose more than the current 3 million, but after a few years be at the 3 million loss area and then potential to close the gap with fan support. There is the respect issue and the Boston Media and excuse of not covering us since we where not an FBS school as Boston College. We are moving to a non AQ league and will be fighting for respect every game.

As not only a Bostonian, but someone who had intimate knowledge of UMASS talks when it came to moving to a different league...this post is somewhat a crock.

One- UMASS reached out to other leagues around at FCS? Really...whom? They were one of the reasons America East Football isnt around right now with UNH, Stony Brook, URI, Albany, Maine, Hofstra, Northeastern and others. They sandbagged it a few years back when everyone was willing to go to 65 scholarships.

Two- No one, even BC (though they get more than others), gets respect in the media in Boston. In it is a Pro-Town plain and simple. There is a reason you have to buy season tickets to go to the DUKE, UNC and Maryland hoops games...and the same for Florida State in football. People simply dont relate to the college game for whatever reason.

And for the record, the YANKEE CONFERENCE didnt become a southern based conference...it basically went under a different banner to be more competative in football because A) The A-Ten sucked at running the leagu and B) expansion possibilities with southern teams. There were still plenty of teams to pick from up north (Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth, Colgate, etc.) if the leage didnt have other ideas.

It's all good...but you are basically making stuff up to justify your move. I know plenty of fans not happy with the move. I know plenty of fans who are not happy they are playing at Gillette. Unless you have quantifiable numbers...relax with the "majority of UMass fans are happy with the move..." party line. I have confidents who actually run a fundraising arm for UMASS athletics who are far from happy about the move.

[panama]

Steve81,
A school needs to do what is good for the school and not worry about the other schools. I have found that to succeed in sports you need rivalries, a conference, and playoff (or some sort of potential bonus at the end of the season). UCD had none., so that was leaving the only option to move to FBS or discontinue football. So, UCD was looking at FBS, because it offered a conference, local rivalries, and a bonus at the end. FCS was offering NOTHING. That was until the BSC offered a football only or all sport positions to soon to be former GWFC teams. The GWFC was not going to survive as a football conference very long IMO.
I wish UMass the best of luck.
This

[Dane96]

How much does a few 3 hour long commercials cost. It's marketing for the school, connection for the alums and a lot of fun. How do you justify cross county and track and field and other non revenue sports.

Back to your assertion that we'd be like BU. I’d take that bet, we are not a private school like BU and we’ve been playing football since 1879. We played in 3 bowl games before the formation of 1AA.

UMass Football Wiki Page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMass_Minutemen_football)

Many states are larger than Massachusetts and share Division 1 Sports with multiple directional or city named Universities. UMass and Massachusetts is very different as only the flagship has Division 1 Basketball, Football, Lacrosse, Softball, Field Hockey, and Rowing. It was fairly recently, 2003 that Lowell Tech, Boston State, and Southeastern Massachusetts where renamed UMass-Lowell, UMass-Boston, and UMass-Dartmouth, plus UMass Medical in Worcester and the flagship UMass in Amherst.

When I talk to a Lowell Tech graduate, he will say that he is from UMass as well, but it’s Lowell and does that count. My reply is sure we are all UMass, especially with sports. The union is still fairly new and recently even the “University of Massachusetts Club” is opening up to all campuses. There is synergy combining the five schools under the UMass umbrella with only the flagship having Division 1 Sports. We are just starting to hit critical mass financially and making in roads political with a new law school. Our current Chancellor Holub, who have tremendous respect, had unfavorable information by the Board of Trustees leaked to the Boston Globe. (The Board of Trustees are political and not pro UMass.) Years ago he would be gone by now, but alumnus have written to their legislators. We are a small state and just now hitting a half billion in endowment.

There is only one UMass proudly wearing the state name on our jerseys.
http://www.clubcorp.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/clubs/university-of-massachusetts-media-folder/images/about-the-club/general-information/the-university-of-massachusetts-club-boston-ma-entrance-560x410.jpg/1109304-1-eng-US/The-University-of-Massachusetts-Club-Boston-MA-entrance-560x410.jpg_singleImage.jpg
Link to the University of Massachusetts Club on the 33rd Floor Overlloking the Boston Harbor (http://www.clubcorp.com/Clubs/University-of-Massachusetts-Club)

Crock of **** post of year...can I get my vote in early.

One...UMASS Lowell has DI Hockey.

Two...whew...BFD...you have a club. So does Suffolk, Northeastern, BU, Brandeis, etc....and not to mention the only "CLUB" in town...HARVARD (though I think it's taughty). And yes, my affiliation is on the 38th floor...does that make it better than your 33rd floor club?

Let me get to the point. Come up with some real arguments on why the move is good for UMASS...and none of this red herring picasso 'esque argument.

[TheRevSFA]

uh..my office is on a higher floor than your club...but the view isn't as good. Should my officemate and I move to FBS play?

[Dane96]

Oil rigs don't count.

[TheRevSFA]

zing.

Unfortunately it's actually in a skyscraper. I'd kill to be out on the ocean as opposed to staring out at Houston, Tx

[Dane96]

Sadly...my view sucks too...a wooded parking lot outside Boston...f'in German bosses.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

That stupid "3 hr. commercial" logic always cracks me up too.xlolx

[RabidRabbit]

The best level for SDSU to be at, is the one that keeps it competing against the other 3 "Dakota schools". Love the recognition and the ability to play the Big 10/12 in the other sports, but would never have the school size to compete in a conference with B10/12 schools. SDSU/UNC/NDSU tried to encourage the NCC to move to DI as a league. Those that were capable have since leaped. Would enjoy seeing a league that contains former NCC schools. Creighton, UNO, four Dakotas, UNC, and UNI wouldn't be bad, but it doesn't lend itself to moving to FBS level football.

[SU DOG]

Samford is perfectly happy in the SoCon. That is the point our administration keeps trying to make to those freakin SEC "feelers" who just won't take NO for an answer - something about us being needed for balancing because of Texas A&M.

[TheBisonator]

I will be happy as long as NDSU is in a division of football that allows it to play at least one big-name BCS-level school every season (i.e. today's FCS, or the D2 of the 70's). I would be THRILLED if NDSU went into the highest football subdivision, if the BCS schools did not break away. If the BCS schools DO break away from the NCAA, I would hope that NDSU will be in the highest NCAA division.

[darell1976]

I will be happy as long as NDSU is in a division of football that allows it to play at least one big-name BCS-level school every season (i.e. today's FCS, or the D2 of the 70's). I would be THRILLED if NDSU went into the highest football subdivision, if the BCS schools did not break away. If the BCS schools DO break away from the NCAA, I would hope that NDSU will be in the highest NCAA division.

Would you rather they play a no name bowl game that is played 2 weeks before New Year's Day or play for a national title?

[TheBisonator]

Would you rather they play a no name bowl game that is played 2 weeks before New Year's Day or play for a national title?

Give me a choice between the New Mexico Bowl and the FCS championship and I will chose the New Mexico Bowl. But that is just my personal preferrence.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

The argument for FBS is harder to make with FCS fans because we know how much fun and how competitive our football can be. However, we are far too few to change the general public's perception and it's clear the NCAA has no interest in making FCS anything more than it is.

Being FBS gives us an opportunity to punch a Big Boy in the mouth with 22 more scholarships. We would be able to get home games with schools the general public recognizes from the ACC and Big East as well as the non-BCS Conferences. In the eyes of the public, it would put us closer to UGA and Ga Tech than we are now. There are more benefits, but that's the real reason.

I go to most of GSU's away games and that would change with a move, but it'd be better in the long term for the school's public profile.

Changing the classification format of DI Football is what is really needed with the BCS schools in a league of their own and two Championship Tiers. Championship 1 would be most of the non-BCS schools and the upper echelon of FCS and would require a minimum of 63 scholarships funded with a maximum of 85. Championship Tier 2 would be for the schools who want to be D1 for other sports, but can't or won't fund scholarships.

The above was proposed more than 10 years ago and shot down primarily by the Ivy's and lower-tier FBS schools for obvious reasons. The OP's question needs two options to be answered correctly:

Are you more interested in football competition? FCS

Are you more interested in prestige? FBS

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The argument for FBS is harder to make with FCS fans because we know how much fun and how competitive our football can be. However, we are far too few to change the general public's perception and it's clear the NCAA has no interest in making FCS anything more than it is.

Being FBS gives us an opportunity to punch a Big Boy in the mouth with 22 more scholarships. We would be able to get home games with schools the general public recognizes from the ACC and Big East as well as the non-BCS Conferences. In the eyes of the public, it would put us closer to UGA and Ga Tech than we are now. There are more benefits, but that's the real reason.

I go to most of GSU's away games and that would change with a move, but it'd be better in the long term for the school's public profile.

Changing the classification format of DI Football is what is really needed with the BCS schools in a league of their own and two Championship Tiers. Championship 1 would be most of the non-BCS schools and the upper echelon of FCS and would require a minimum of 63 scholarships funded with a maximum of 85. Championship Tier 2 would be for the schools who want to be D1 for other sports, but can't or won't fund scholarships.

The above was proposed more than 10 years ago and shot down primarily by the Ivy's and lower-tier FBS schools for obvious reasons. The OP's question needs two options to be answered correctly:

Are you more interested in football competition? FCS

Are you more interested in prestige? FBS

That's my deal in a nutshell right there. I couldn't give a flying **** about what the general public thinks on pretty much any issue let alone where the most interesting or competitive football is played.

I only care that we are known or cared about by our fans and our competition and their fans. I can't bring myself to care that some secretary in an office in Ohio has heard of us and picks us in her office pool.

I know it is something that drives some fans of schools like App/GSU/etc... because they look around at their big brothers down the block an they aren't happy because they don't have that level of respect among people in their area. When the move is made to FBS those same people that everyone cares about having the respect of that don't follow anything but the top teams in a given area are still not gonna recognize your team as a team on that level.

Will you have a chance to possibly have some home games with a big team once in a while. That's possible, but if you look around how often does that work out?

People want, and value different things, I totally understand that. I just can't see where some of these things have come true on a grand scale or even a scale that you would want to place a decent amount of money on in a betting situation.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

When the move is made to FBS those same people that everyone cares about having the respect of that don't follow anything but the top teams in a given area are still not gonna recognize your team as a team on that level.

This is mostly probably true, but I do think we would increase our fan base and notoriety in our own market and adjacent markets.


Will you have a chance to possibly have some home games with a big team once in a while. That's possible, but if you look around how often does that work out?

Just going from the name-recognition POV, Sun Belt (the lowest FBS Conference IMO) teams have had the following home games in the last three years: Duke, Rutgers, Maryland (2), Ga Tech (MTSU in 2011), Minnesota, Miss St., Virginia, Louisville, Houston, Indiana (2), Army, Navy.

Those teams aren't world beaters, but they would probably sell better than Austin Peay, Presbyterian, and Gardner Webb.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

This is mostly probably true, but I do think we would increase our fan base and notoriety in our own market and adjacent markets.



Just going from the name-recognition POV, Sun Belt (the lowest FBS Conference IMO) teams have had the following home games in the last three years: Duke, Rutgers, Maryland (2), Ga Tech (MTSU in 2011), Minnesota, Miss St., Virginia, Louisville, Houston, Indiana (2), Army, Navy.

Those teams aren't world beaters, but they would probably sell better than Austin Peay, Presbyterian, and Gardner Webb.

Until the last line I was pretty sure I just would never understand because I was like "WTF?".

What you say is absolutely true in the difference from AP to those. You are talking about an entire conferences home games for the past 3 years if I follow correctly. So about 5 games/season between how many SBC teams? I really can't remember the # but I'd think that's about one every other season for any given team right? Now to get each of those 15 games how many home games were given up to have those? I bet it's not a 1:1 thing and if it is then disregard but the SBC is probably giving up 22-30 at the outside to have those 15.

There's a lot of money spent to be in that position and if the fans want to do it great but they need to face the fact that your lot in life will not improve very much for the cash outlay.

A game every other season with a big or middlin' big team just seems like some people are banking on something that just isn't there for the teams that are already there. A whole lot of money & expectations out there for trading that 3 hrs. with Austin Peay for a 3hr. engagement for Duke, or Navy, or whoever.

I know some teams may have had an increase in interest but it is almost unnoticeable to the naked eye. They are still not seen in the light that move uppers paint the future of their school.

If that were the case then wouldn't a team like Marshall that went in on a good run and had some real star power players have been in a prime position to capitalize on that aspect? Their crowds are about what they were when they left FCS for the big time and I doubt they picked up nearly as many new fans or people watching or caring about them as they lost because I know for a fact that me and my friends that used to care about Marshall and what they were doing couldn't care to pick up a paper to read a story about them anymore. I'll bet there are other FCS fans that did the same.

People used to talk about GSU, APP, Delaware, Marshall, etc.. at the tailgates and try to get updates on the games in real time like we can now. Guess which team is the ONE TEAM in that list that I have not heard one mention of or a TV stop on its game in the last 8-10 yrs?

[citdog]

People and their inferiority complexes. Ursus and I have HUGE SCHMECKLES.

[spdram]

Interesting conversation, I like the situation Richmond is in right now. When the Divisions split Richmond fought hard to remain at the 1-A level. Afterall we had recently been up for membership in the ACC and lost by only one vote. The thought was, stay at 1-A and we may have made it to the ACC. Looking back, the question would be then, for what? To be a Duke or Wake? Both great institutions, but frequently bringing up the rear of the ACC in football in particular. Even their best years result in a reward of playing in the Toilet Bowl. Or at the MAC or Sunbelt level, do you really think playing on Thursday night to get a National TV game in front of 16K, most of whom are give aways, is a move up? Do you really think the bottom line is better at the lower end of the Power Six, or some weak sister that is BCS only because the Power Six haven't figured out a way to kick them out yet?

I've said this before, if the 6 conferences break off, they will get the casual sports fan and their own bases, but it seems to me, if the fans of the other 200+ schools soon tired of watching them. And there were a concerted effort made by the 200+ schools to view only the non-6 conference teams (and let your networks know), how long would it take for the money to be split. Afterall the networks and advertisers only want results. I don't believe it's that farfetched, look at the post above commenting about Marshall.

[dgtw]

If your school moves up, you will never again get to visit the Mecca of college football in Chatanooga.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

I think the kind of school we are, geography, and D1 High School prospects in-state make the move for Georgia Southern a good plan. The Sun Belt teams mentioned above with those home games were mostly Troy and Middle Tenn, and North Texas. Those schools are getting about 1 of those per year along with a non-BCS OOC. One victory over UGA or Ga Tech would be worth more than all 6 NC combined for Georgia Southern. The 22 extra scholarships would certainly help our chances along those lines as well as keep some in-state kids from going to Troy, ECU, Middle Tenn, WKU, etc. I don't have any delusions of ever being "equal" to UGA or Ga Tech, but I think we could be like ECU, which is about as much as a transformed Teacher's College can hope to be in Athletics.

What we're doing now is "putting ourselves in position" to be attractive to an FBS Conference. 5-8 years from now, we'll know more and a lot will depend upon potential realignment of BCS Conferences.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the perceived elevation other sports receive. You'd be amazed at the morons who think we all play a lower Division of baseball and basketball. Think what that does to recruiting and ticket sales. (GSU Baseball was 39th and 36th in the nation 2010 and 2011 in attendance).

[Jackman]

BREAKING NEWS: FCS Fans on FCS-oriented Message Board Poo-Poo Moves to FBS!

I always wondered what it would be like to be on the opposite side of one of these arguments.



you'll be boston university in 15 years and be quitting football. how can a State university, EVEN IN THAT COMMUNIST UTOPIA, explain LOSING 3 MILLION DOLLARS A YEAR ON FOOTBALL?


One year a few years ago, UMass made the egregious mistake of accurately reporting its expenditures and revenue to the federal government, instead of bull****ting it like everyone else such as through counting student fees as "football revenue". Since then we've changed our accounting methods, but the media hasn't forgotten the real number (which was closer to $2 million, for the record).

And unless you're a fan of Montana or Delaware (or maybe App), <insert name of your team> is probably in the same boat. Do the math yourself. Multiply a year's worth of tuition, housing, and meal plans by 63. Make sure you use the out-of-state rate for those, because that's how the NCAA requires that the accounting be done and how the UMass number was calculated. Add your coaches', trainers' and stadium caretakers' salaries, plus roughly $25,000 for every bus trip and $90,000 for every flight. You're still missing other maintenance, equipment and insurance costs, but you'll need an insider to get you those.

Now take your season attendance, subtract the people who got in for free, and multiply the remainder by the average ticket price. Add a big fat $0 for your TV contract.

Finally, calculate how many hot dogs every attending fan would have to eat to close the gap between the first number and the second number. Cross your fingers that a lot of your season ticket holders have the last name "Kobayashi". If you're not getting a huge guarantee from playing a FBS opponent, you're ******ed.


That stupid "3 hr. commercial" logic always cracks me up too.xlolx

If you don't think it's worth anything, then why does the Big Sky and most other FCS conferences pay networks to put their games on TV, same as any other paid programming hawking Shamwows and Slap Chops? The CAA used to get paid a "whopping" $15k for all their games combined, up until Comcast realigned their network and closed the Boston station. I believe they're back to eating the production costs now.


One- UMASS reached out to other leagues around at FCS? Really...whom? They were one of the reasons America East Football isnt around right now with UNH, Stony Brook, URI, Albany, Maine, Hofstra, Northeastern and others. They sandbagged it a few years back when everyone was willing to go to 65 scholarships.

1. He was talking about FBS leagues, not FCS leagues.

2. That's great that they respected us enough to lie they would go to 65, but the FCS maximum is 63, which Rhode Island already wasn't doing. Northeastern still would have dropped football, Hofstra still would have used them as an excuse to do the same, URI (if they stayed) and Maine still would have called for reduced scholarships at every meeting, and Albany still doesn't have a stadium. None of you could be trusted further than you could be punted, except UNH, who won't invest a dime into their facilities despite a gazillion consecutive playoff appearances and FBS wins.

UMass only had one short flight per season in the CAA until Northeastern crapped out on us. What good would that America East league have done us? It would have been a disaster, except from Albany's perspective.


Two- No one, even BC (though they get more than others), gets respect in the media in Boston. In it is a Pro-Town plain and simple.

Nobody north of Penn State has had a FBS team to cheer for, except Connecticut and Buffalo following their recent move-ups. Small, private universities don't count. UMass will now finally put the "pro-town" theory to the test in Massachusetts. Discussion and speculation are over. We're going to see what actually happens.


And for the record, the YANKEE CONFERENCE didnt become a southern based conference...it basically went under a different banner to be more competative in football because A) The A-Ten sucked at running the leagu and B) expansion possibilities with southern teams. There were still plenty of teams to pick from up north (Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth, Colgate, etc.) if the leage didnt have other ideas.

The A10 wasn't well-run, but I'm confident the CAA switch still would have happened regardless. With regional divisions it simply wasn't the travel nightmare some try to paint it as, especially for UMass, URI and Hofstra. We only played the southern teams half the time, half at home, and half were within bus range. There was never a reason to take a flying leap on partnering with NEC and PL teams who might not truly be committed to playing championship caliber FCS football.

And the CAA wasn't formed because of southern expansion opportunities. If they wanted to expand south, they wouldn't have invited all the northern teams to fill the league to 12. And they'd never have invited Northeastern in as a full member. The only reason they were invited was to get the minimum 6 for football.


I know plenty of fans not happy with the move. I know plenty of fans who are not happy they are playing at Gillette. Unless you have quantifiable numbers...relax with the "majority of UMass fans are happy with the move..." party line. I have confidents who actually run a fundraising arm for UMASS athletics who are far from happy about the move.

The majority of UMass fans who make their opinions known on message boards are happy with the move. I know some of the few who are unhappy as well. They mostly live within a couple miles of Amherst and whined about alumni in Boston refusing to make the road trip out to campus. Shoe is on the other foot now. Do us a favor and ask some of those confidants you know who actually run a fundraising arm for UMASS athletics how happy they'd be to fundraise us a 68,000 capacity stadium on campus. Sounds good to me.

Relax with the "FCS good, FBS bad" party line. This works for UMass. It would not work for Albany or most others. We paid absolutely nothing for our FBS stadium, we didn't have to add any women's sports, and we didn't have to move a single sport out of the A10. The only thing we had to do is add more scholarships, which are immediately paid for by the much higher guarantees FBS teams get for the same road games we're already playing. Would Albany turn that opportunity down, especially given the exhausting process it's been to shovel a single grain of sand and begin building your modest stadium plan?

It was the right call for UMass. It would not be the right call for most of the rest of FCS.

[Steve81]

Wow Dane96, lots of response and most are out of context or simply wrong.

One- UMASS reached out to other leagues around at FCS? Really...whom? They were one of the reasons America East Football isn’t around right now with UNH, Stony Brook, URI, Albany, Maine, Hofstra, Northeastern and others. They sandbagged it a few years back when everyone was willing to go to 65 scholarships
Really, the above is plan wrong. Here is a refresher and post #92 ‘AceInTheHole’,

UNH had the chance to try and pull the the CAA-4 together with the SUNYs, CCSU, and others for a Northern-based conference, but instead they sat on their hands.

I like the UNH fans, but really your allegience to the Richmond-based administration and the failure to be proactive and do what's in the best interest of the CAA-4 block, rests on your shoulders. URI was willing, Maine would have went along, and maybe you'd have UMass as well. But we'll never know because UNH chose to do NOTHING and let others make the decisions for them. your post #94

Not speculation; FACT. I have the proposal in my possession...and others have seen it that are members on this board.‘ and then your post #102
‘UMASS (they were on board)’http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?79754-UMass-to-FBS-(MAC)&p=1592262&viewfull=1#post1592262

And for the record, the YANKEE CONFERENCE didn’t become a southern based conference...it basically went under a different banner to be more competitive in football because A) The A-Ten sucked at running the league and B) expansion possibilities with southern teams. There were still plenty of teams to pick from up north (Fordham, Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth, Colgate, etc.) if the league didn’t have other ideas.
Obviously the CAA does not want northern teams. When Hofstra and Northeastern dropped football did the CAA call/invite any of these schools? When Rhode Island announced they are dropping to the NEC, 40 scholarship, did the CAA come calling? When UMass announce they where leaving, did the CAA come calling?

No argument, the A10 never wanted to run a football league.

The reason we moved up is the chancellor Holub has high goals for UMass as a major research institution and almost all those type of schools have FBS football. Plus it was a perfect storm for the move to happen and the Colonial Clash validated the decision.

In addition to setting the CAA conference attendance record of 32,848 at Gillette Stadium, the Colonial Clash set a league record for TV audience. The CAA reports that the Colonial Clash drew a record 0.88 TV rating on Comcast SportsNet. That means that more than 1,000,000 households were tuned into the UMass-UNH football game from Gillette Stadium.

A full rating point represents 1,159,000 households, so with a mark of 0.88, approximately 1,019,000 homes were tuned at to the Colonial Clash.
http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/102710aaf.html#_

Realistically expect low 20’s during the cold weather games in November and December.

Never mentioned Hockey, since UMass Lowell and Merrimac and other schools had Division 1 Hockey before the NCAA rule and are grandfather.

The move has to make sense for the school and Temple passed on CUSA and we joined them in the MAC.

Note: We will be playing a home and home with Indiana, with the Hoosiers coming to Gillette Sept 8th, 2012 and a return game in 2017. We play Connecticut in 2012 and two more away buy games to pay the bills.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Jackman, the BSC doesn't pay to have it's games on TV. The BSC and it's members benefits quite a bit from what the local station pays to televise Griz games. Other local stations in the other teams areas also pay for the privilege.

It's a dumb argument because if you have even 1/2 the viewership then your 1/2 is rooting for your team anyway and the other 1/2 isn't being sold anything they want to buy. They specifically want to see your product crash & burn.

Are there some stragglers that may come upon the game? Sure, very few but even less likely that by seeing this ad that they will become a long term customer.

That is silly to say that you are getting some massive amount of dollars worth because a game is being shown on TV. It is the content and the reason that other products advertise in that time frame.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think the kind of school we are, geography, and D1 High School prospects in-state make the move for Georgia Southern a good plan. The Sun Belt teams mentioned above with those home games were mostly Troy and Middle Tenn, and North Texas. Those schools are getting about 1 of those per year along with a non-BCS OOC. One victory over UGA or Ga Tech would be worth more than all 6 NC combined for Georgia Southern. The 22 extra scholarships would certainly help our chances along those lines as well as keep some in-state kids from going to Troy, ECU, Middle Tenn, WKU, etc. I don't have any delusions of ever being "equal" to UGA or Ga Tech, but I think we could be like ECU, which is about as much as a transformed Teacher's College can hope to be in Athletics.

What we're doing now is "putting ourselves in position" to be attractive to an FBS Conference. 5-8 years from now, we'll know more and a lot will depend upon potential realignment of BCS Conferences.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the perceived elevation other sports receive. You'd be amazed at the morons who think we all play a lower Division of baseball and basketball. Think what that does to recruiting and ticket sales. (GSU Baseball was 39th and 36th in the nation 2010 and 2011 in attendance).

You make very reasonable points but I just can't buy into all of them presently based on what those that have gone before you have accomplished.

Interesting point you brought up about the idiots that don't realize and the perceived elevation. Again, I just don't have the need to care about what morons percieve. They are not gonna be fans, recruits, or anything of value that I can see. It is purely facade for the unwashed masses to me.

I'm not positive but I'm not sure that a move elevates sports outside of Football at all in most cases. For one thing Football is the reason for the move up and the money going into it would seem to far outweigh any money going toward the other sports and have an even greater disparity than before. You add the extra sports and schollies for the girls and the extra staff to keep this all in order and then the increase in salaries to be competitive for the coaches and that pie would seem to be tougher to get a good slice out of for sports like men's basketball & men's baseball.

The people that matter...the recruits, fans, etc. already know that GSU is strong and are D1. What does it help to have people that aren't intelligent enough or care enough to know now thinking GSU is D1 all around?

I can not see how it helps the Ath. Dpt. and it is just as likely to hinder other sports as it is to elevate them once money has to be taken from them and placed in the football team and women's sports.

The increase in revenues is driven by what the fans pay or are willing to pay and if that isn't increased a whole lot then it seems like trouble. Bottom line though is that you guys WILL pay for it and if you choose to do it then all the luck but I think it's quite the risk for the reward in my book.

The NCAA tourney let's everybody know how this is layed out every year when a Cinderella beats a big team. If people can't figure out that the smaller colleges are playing D1 in those sports then I sure don't care about what their perception is.

[TheValleyRaider]

Nobody north of Penn State has had a FBS team to cheer for, except Connecticut and Buffalo following their recent move-ups. Small, private universities don't count.

Syracuse says Hi

The northeast is largely a professional region. UMass is wading into difficult waters. Being in the MAC (and really, by extension, being on ESPN) will help, but unless they win (a lot), they won't be getting too much more attention xtwocentsx

[clenz]

If UNI moving FBS means leaving the MVC for all sports I'm completely against it...unless the B12 comes calling trying to save their conference - which won't happen.

The MVC is a very good basketball conference, good baseball (even though UNI doesn't have baseball), good volleyball, and women's basketball conference.

The step to the MAC, WAC, Sun Belt, etc... are all a step backwards in every sport...including football.

The CUSA is pretty lateral, minus football. Basketball in the CUSA is on par with the MVC...the only thing CUSA has over the MVC is not having the mid-major label - even though they are. The only reason they are looked at as a good BB conference is those Memphis teams that no longer exist in the NCAA record books.

[superman7515]

http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4423496


If Villanova steps through stage door left, the conversation about who's next then switches to Delaware. And then James Madison. And then...

It's not the perfect model that Delaware coach K.C. Keeler used to know. He's content with Delaware's place in the CAA, but he knows the landscape has changed.

"At one time this is the best conference in America - you have six in the north and six in the south," said the coach of last season's national runner- up squad. "And then you have Northeastern drop football and Hofstra follows suit. And now Rhode Island is moving out. Massachusetts is already moving out. Villanova's talking about moving out. I'm concerned about I-AA football. I'm concerned about the Montanas and the Appalachian States of the world.

"Now you wonder what we're going to be in two or three or four years. And that's why I encourage our administration, if an ACC or an Big East (enters the picture) -- because those are the places that we want to be -- we would be foolish not to jump on board and do whatever it would have to take to get into those conferences. But it is a little nerve-wracking what may happen with I-AA football in the future."

[TheBisonator]

If UNI moving FBS means leaving the MVC for all sports I'm completely against it...unless the B12 comes calling trying to save their conference - which won't happen.

The MVC is a very good basketball conference, good baseball (even though UNI doesn't have baseball), good volleyball, and women's basketball conference.

The step to the MAC, WAC, Sun Belt, etc... are all a step backwards in every sport...including football.

The CUSA is pretty lateral, minus football. Basketball in the CUSA is on par with the MVC...the only thing CUSA has over the MVC is not having the mid-major label - even though they are. The only reason they are looked at as a good BB conference is those Memphis teams that no longer exist in the NCAA record books.

Going to any other conference in non-football sports that are not named the Great West, Southland, Big Sky, Patriot, SWAC, MEAC, Ohio Valley, America East, Big South, A-Sun or Northeast would be a move up for NDSU. Any invite from a conference like the MAC, MVC, Horizon, etc. would be a move up for us. Hopefully NDSU gets all-sports membership to the MVC in the next 10 years or so.

(Note: Most of the 11 conferences I listed in the first part of the paragraph would be lateral moves, not even moves down.)

[dgtw]

I think a move up would help places like GSU (both of them), Appy St and Jax St because it would attract more attention and students who want to go to a "major" college. I don't think it would matter that much to a place like Montana, which is already the stae's flagship university and only had MSU to compete with instate.

[clenz]

Going to any other conference in non-football sports that are not named the Great West, Southland, Big Sky, Patriot, SWAC, MEAC, Ohio Valley, America East, Big South, A-Sun or Northeast would be a move up for NDSU. Any invite from a conference like the MAC, MVC, Horizon, etc. would be a move up for us. Hopefully NDSU gets all-sports membership to the MVC in the next 10 years or so.

(Note: Most of the 11 conferences I listed in the first part of the paragraph would be lateral moves, not even moves down.)I honestly don't see the MVC going up to Fargo for a team, unless some crazy **** happens.

[appsfan]

I think that for many of the FCS teams considering a move to FBS the main factor prompting their exploration is the viability of FCS over the long term. The college sports scene is changing and many of the schools mentioned here don't want to be boxed into what may become a declining subdivision. This is the main reason that I started to support a ASU move to FBS about a year ago...

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think that for many of the FCS teams considering a move to FBS the main factor prompting their exploration is the viability of FCS over the long term. The college sports scene is changing and many of the schools mentioned here don't want to be boxed into what may become a declining subdivision. This is the main reason that I started to support a ASU move to FBS about a year ago...

I've seen that quite a bit and I'm not sure I understand how it is declining? What is the criteria for this?

Revenues were up by a greater percentage in FCS than in FBS from a story TT posted a month or so ago. There are more teams, attendance is up across FCS also I believe, and the TV ratings for the playoffs have been rising as well as the fact that as we all know the playoff was expanded so what are the factors you are talking about?

Saying that it is declining now as compared to any time in the past is just something I do not get.

[Tribal]

This is an easy fix. All schools that want to go FBS should simply form their own conference. Then, they can work for FBS recognition from the NCAA without the "insignificant" FCS programs getting involved.

[Accelerati Incredibilus]

FCS is quickly becoming a division of two divisions. Programs like ASU, GSU, Jax State, JMU, Liberty, Montana, Montana State, ODU and others are buiding stadiums and facilities which far surpass the overwhelming majority of FCS programs. The support and comittment to a higher level of play by these programs is clearly evident. Although I want ASU to move up I don't want the school to take a spot just for the sake of moving up. I came along before 1-AA and the playoffs are not the all important reason for playing as it is to most FCS guys. Besides, that whole "our champion is settled on the field" stuff is about the only bullet FCS fans have in their guns. I think the level of play within the Sun Belt is pretty darn good and the lower level bowl games are not the joke many FCS supporters like to make them out to be. Which is ironic when you consider how the media treats the FCS championship game. The cost of travel within that large of a geographic area w/o the benefit of substantial revenue streams would make me vote no. Although CUSA is even more widespread spread there are some some revenue streams to help with the travel cost. To me the perfect world for ASU would be an eastern division of CUSA including ECU, Marshall, JMU, & ODU, and Charlotte. I'm not holding my breath.

[GSU EAGLES]

I think a move up would help places like GSU (both of them), Appy St and Jax St because it would attract more attention and students who want to go to a "major" college. I don't think it would matter that much to a place like Montana, which is already the stae's flagship university and only had MSU to compete with instate.

Very good point. In Montana you can be FCS and still be the big dog in your state. In the South, you are either FBS or you may as well be division III.

[Sly Fox]

I have been to many lower tier bowls over the years back in my sportscasting days. And frankly, they are better in general for fans than the FCS playoffs. You have one game generally in a warm climate where you can go spend a week with fellow fans having a great time. It is tough for FCS fans to travel to playoff games on short notice unless they happen to be within 6 hours of driving each way.

Don't get me wrong, I love the FCS playoffs. But the constant shots at lower tier bowls I believe are spoken primarily out of lack of personal exposure.

[citdog]

If you don't like the FCS all of you RUBES in pig's ***, nedbeattyville, and elsewhere pick up your chequebooks and quadruble your donation. pig's *** can't even raise enough money to build a statue to erk and the delusions of the eaglets and the mountain gayboys is a DAILY source of amusement. Thanks guys for making unc-c fans seem ALMOST normal.

[Saint3333]

I've seen that quite a bit and I'm not sure I understand how it is declining? What is the criteria for this?

Revenues were up by a greater percentage in FCS than in FBS from a story TT posted a month or so ago. There are more teams, attendance is up across FCS also I believe, and the TV ratings for the playoffs have been rising as well as the fact that as we all know the playoff was expanded so what are the factors you are talking about?

Saying that it is declining now as compared to any time in the past is just something I do not get.

Your opinion differs from Coaches and AD across the country. Ask Keeler at UD. Expansion of the playoffs as a positive is a reach to say the least.

[Dane96]

BREAKING NEWS: FCS Fans on FCS-oriented Message Board Poo-Poo Moves to FBS!

2. That's great that they respected us enough to lie they would go to 65, but the FCS maximum is 63, which Rhode Island already wasn't doing. Northeastern still would have dropped football, Hofstra still would have used them as an excuse to do the same, URI (if they stayed) and Maine still would have called for reduced scholarships at every meeting, and Albany still doesn't have a stadium. None of you could be trusted further than you could be punted, except UNH, who won't invest a dime into their facilities despite a gazillion consecutive playoff appearances and FBS wins.

Nobody north of Penn State has had a FBS team to cheer for, except Connecticut and Buffalo following their recent move-ups. Small, private universities don't count. UMass will now finally put the "pro-town" theory to the test in Massachusetts. Discussion and speculation are over. We're going to see what actually happens.

And the CAA wasn't formed because of southern expansion opportunities. If they wanted to expand south, they wouldn't have invited all the northern teams to fill the league to 12. And they'd never have invited Northeastern in as a full member. The only reason they were invited was to get the minimum 6 for football

1- I know the level of scholarships...thanks much. It was typo...and you have been on the board long enough to know I am not some dip**** who doesn't know the rules of scholarship.

2- URI was ready to stay at 63...and NU was on board. UMASS and Boston U torpedoed the plan; UMASS because it didnt want to associate with Albany and Stony Brook in football...and BU because they didnt want to give up the leverage they had to leave the America East. See...this was a football / hockey move that was actually on the table for a vote. BC even went along with AMERICA EAST HOCKEY. BU, thinking they would be scooped up by another league...wanted the "out" they currently have...but would not have if all of a sudden they were under an all-sport banner (Hockey being their one major sport not under the AE banner). As I stated earlier, UMASS was simply no longer into the AE football deal...didn't like the sound of it.

3- The AE-Four left for greener pastures for a multitude of reasons, including football. With that, they saw great opportunities in strengthening the football banner past that of a non-starter AE league (see BU and Vermont) and that of the then current arrangement of the A-Ten football banner. That is exactly why they looked to a Southern based league, where football was important and basketball was just on the cusp of being an upper mid-major.

4- Rutgers, Army, Syracuse, Buffalo...all north of Penn State and FBS football.

5- And finally, no, he wasn't talking about FBS leagues with regards to looking around. He stated...we looked around...followed up with no other "quality FCS leagues..."

Thanks.

[Dane96]

Wow Dane96, lots of response and most are out of context or simply wrong.

Really, the above is plan wrong. Here is a refresher and post #92 ‘AceInTheHole’,
your post #94
and then your post #102 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?79754-UMass-to-FBS-(MAC)&p=1592262&viewfull=1#post1592262

Obviously the CAA does not want northern teams. When Hofstra and Northeastern dropped football did the CAA call/invite any of these schools? When Rhode Island announced they are dropping to the NEC, 40 scholarship, did the CAA come calling? When UMass announce they where leaving, did the CAA come calling?

No argument, the A10 never wanted to run a football league.

The reason we moved up is the chancellor Holub has high goals for UMass as a major research institution and almost all those type of schools have FBS football. Plus it was a perfect storm for the move to happen and the Colonial Clash validated the decision.

http://www.umassathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/102710aaf.html#_

Realistically expect low 20’s during the cold weather games in November and December.

Never mentioned Hockey, since UMass Lowell and Merrimac and other schools had Division 1 Hockey before the NCAA rule and are grandfather.

The move has to make sense for the school and Temple passed on CUSA and we joined them in the MAC.

Note: We will be playing a home and home with Indiana, with the Hoosiers coming to Gillette Sept 8th, 2012 and a return game in 2017. We play Connecticut in 2012 and two more away buy games to pay the bills.

1- With all due respect to Ace, who I respect greatly...he has not had the intimate knowledge of the AE proceedings. He has a lot of knowledge...but not intimate. UNH, Albany, Stony Brook, Maine were all on board for AE football. What he is referring to is the OLD AE-4 that left for the CAA because of the nay votes of UVM, BU and some say Hartford though that is debatable. What I am talking about is a plan in the 2000's to constitute AE Hockey and AE Football. With that new league, there was a very strong chance that CCSU would have been invited as the 10th AE All-Sport team...maybe 12th if the league convinced Hofstra and NU to come back. I personally sat on update meetings regarding this...and fundraising issues that were related to it. My roommate at the time sat on the UMASS working group (he is currently the leader of the Alumni Basketball fundraising arm) that reviewed the process from UMASS' perspective. Again, had UMASS and most importantly, BU, not nixed football and hockey...things COULD...I repeat COULD have been very different. Tough I still think UMASS goes FBS even earlier if the Commonwealth gave them the funding they asked for back 10 years ago.

As to my post stating UMASS was on board...yes...UMASS was initially on board. It was a small vocal few who were anti the whole thing. When BU nixed AE Hockey (which UMASS would have been a part of) the minority used that as the, "Why are we doing AE football drum...we are happy where we are and can look to FBS."

That's not flip flopping from me or misstating things...that was a fact. There were TONS and TONS of $$$ spent on reviewing all options.

You really think all the Colonial Clash fans were UMASS fans...come on now.

And sorry, you said there were NO DI playing schools in any sport. It's wrong...it's not fact...and you can't split hairs. I know the Dayton rule...very well.

You are bringing other things into your argument that has nothing to do with what I was stating...nothing at all.

2-

[dgtw]

The argument for FBS is harder to make with FCS fans because we know how much fun and how competitive our football can be. However, we are far too few to change the general public's perception and it's clear the NCAA has no interest in making FCS anything more than it is.

Being FBS gives us an opportunity to punch a Big Boy in the mouth with 22 more scholarships. We would be able to get home games with schools the general public recognizes from the ACC and Big East as well as the non-BCS Conferences. In the eyes of the public, it would put us closer to UGA and Ga Tech than we are now. There are more benefits, but that's the real reason.

I go to most of GSU's away games and that would change with a move, but it'd be better in the long term for the school's public profile.

Changing the classification format of DI Football is what is really needed with the BCS schools in a league of their own and two Championship Tiers. Championship 1 would be most of the non-BCS schools and the upper echelon of FCS and would require a minimum of 63 scholarships funded with a maximum of 85. Championship Tier 2 would be for the schools who want to be D1 for other sports, but can't or won't fund scholarships.

The above was proposed more than 10 years ago and shot down primarily by the Ivy's and lower-tier FBS schools for obvious reasons. The OP's question needs two options to be answered correctly:

Are you more interested in football competition? FCS

Are you more interested in prestige? FBS

How many schools are currently in FCS, not countiing those transitioning to FBS? How many do not offer scholarships or offer less than 63?

I don't see the NCAA creating another tier of football unless the BCS schools force their way out.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Your opinion differs from Coaches and AD across the country. Ask Keeler at UD. Expansion of the playoffs as a positive is a reach to say the least.

It ain't opinion. It's what has been happening. I know wht Keeler said and I don't know why I should go with his speculation over that. If the AD's are so big on this then it's odd that GSU said no, App said no at this time, and montana also said no.

I ain't saying things couldn't change but until they do we'll need to stick with what we know now.

[GSU EAGLES]

If you don't like the FCS all of you RUBES in pig's ***, nedbeattyville, and elsewhere pick up your chequebooks and quadruble your donation. pig's *** can't even raise enough money to build a statue to erk and the delusions of the eaglets and the mountain gayboys is a DAILY source of amusement. Thanks guys for making unc-c fans seem ALMOST normal.

The SoCon no longer fits the goals and aspirations of Georgia Southern and App State which leaves us no choice but to secede from the SoCon. Our University was founded as an independent group that joined the SoCon with the belief that each University maintains is sovereignty as a part of the SoCon Union. When the SoCon moved towards a small private school union, it no longer reflected our goals and aspirations. When called to arms we must choose our University and rebel from the SoCon Union. Certainly you of all people would be in complete agreement of this, right?

"Secession belongs to a different class of remedies. It is to be justified upon the basis that the States are Sovereign. There was a time when none denied it. I hope the time may come again, when a better comprehension of the theory of our Government, and the inalienable rights of the people of the States, will prevent any one from denying that each State is a Sovereign, and thus may reclaim the grants which it has made to any agent whomsoever."
~Jefferson Davis

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The SoCon no longer fits the goals and aspirations of Georgia Southern and App State which leaves us no choice but to secede from the SoCon. Our University was founded as an independent group that joined the SoCon with the belief that each University maintains is sovereignty as a part of the SoCon Union. When the SoCon moved towards a small private school union, it no longer reflected our goals and aspirations. When called to arms we must choose our University and rebel from the SoCon Union. Certainly you of all people would be in complete agreement of this, right?

"Secession belongs to a different class of remedies. It is to be justified upon the basis that the States are Sovereign. There was a time when none denied it. I hope the time may come again, when a better comprehension of the theory of our Government, and the inalienable rights of the people of the States, will prevent any one from denying that each State is a Sovereign, and thus may reclaim the grants which it has made to any agent whomsoever."
~Jefferson Davis

I really think the schools have that right. I also think the SoCon should look at booting these schools since they quite obviously no longer fit the SoCon.

Those small private institutions were some of the ones that allowed GSU in the SoCon to start with and now watching the griping them as opponents is funny.

In the last decade a few of those same small private schools have been probably a bit higher profile in football than GSU has. They've at least been equal.

[citdog]

The SoCon no longer fits the goals and aspirations of Georgia Southern and App State which leaves us no choice but to secede from the SoCon. Our University was founded as an independent group that joined the SoCon with the belief that each University maintains is sovereignty as a part of the SoCon Union. When the SoCon moved towards a small private school union, it no longer reflected our goals and aspirations. When called to arms we must choose our University and rebel from the SoCon Union. Certainly you of all people would be in complete agreement of this, right?

"Secession belongs to a different class of remedies. It is to be justified upon the basis that the States are Sovereign. There was a time when none denied it. I hope the time may come again, when a better comprehension of the theory of our Government, and the inalienable rights of the people of the States, will prevent any one from denying that each State is a Sovereign, and thus may reclaim the grants which it has made to any agent whomsoever."
~Jefferson Davis

No one questions the right and the only question is who is going be South Carolina and actually have the balls to quit talking about it and actually do it

[Saint3333]

It ain't opinion. It's what has been happening. I know wht Keeler said and I don't know why I should go with his speculation over that. If the AD's are so big on this then it's odd that GSU said no, App said no at this time, and montana also said no.

I ain't saying things couldn't change but until they do we'll need to stick with what we know now.

Said no to what?

It is an opinion and it differs from the leaders of some of the schools that may have an FBS opportunity.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Said no to what?

It is an opinion and it differs from the leaders of some of the schools that may have an FBS opportunity.

It is not opinion that attendance is up, viewership was up, and revenues are up. If your opinion is that this all means it's dying then good for you. I don't care if you are wrong about it.

GSU's study a couple of years ago said the money wasn't there. Montana's study said it was doable but the options of where to go is not there to make the financial end work out. App is in that same spot.

In other words "No" unless the correct opportunity comes along which is exactly what the answer would probably be for a ton of schools in the BSC, CAA, MVFC, etc...

I wish you guys luck though. You are being held back by small private institutions.xthumbsupx

[citdog]

It is not opinion that attendance is up, viewership was up, and revenues are up. If your opinion is that this all means it's dying then good for you. I don't care if you are wrong about it.

GSU's study a couple of years ago said the money wasn't there. Montana's study said it was doable but the options of where to go is not there to make the financial end work out. App is in that same spot.

In other words "No" unless the correct opportunity comes along which is exactly what the answer would probably be for a ton of schools in the BSC, CAA, MVFC, etc...

I wish you guys luck though. You are being held back by small private institutions.xthumbsupx

Tits ripped off by Ursus

[clenz]

It is not opinion that attendance is up, viewership was up, and revenues are up. If your opinion is that this all means it's dying then good for you. I don't care if you are wrong about it.

GSU's study a couple of years ago said the money wasn't there. Montana's study said it was doable but the options of where to go is not there to make the financial end work out. App is in that same spot.

In other words "No" unless the correct opportunity comes along which is exactly what the answer would probably be for a ton of schools in the BSC, CAA, MVFC, etc...

I wish you guys luck though. You are being held back by small private institutions.xthumbsupxThe study that UNI did last summer concluded the same. The money just wouldn't be there to get through the move up, or sustain it once we got there.

[Steve81]

1- With all due respect to Ace, who I respect greatly...he has not had the intimate knowledge of the AE proceedings. He has a lot of knowledge...but not intimate. UNH, Albany, Stony Brook, Maine were all on board for AE football. What he is referring to is the OLD AE-4 that left for the CAA because of the nay votes of UVM, BU and some say Hartford though that is debatable. What I am talking about is a plan in the 2000's to constitute AE Hockey and AE Football. With that new league, there was a very strong chance that CCSU would have been invited as the 10th AE All-Sport team...maybe 12th if the league convinced Hofstra and NU to come back. I personally sat on update meetings regarding this...and fundraising issues that were related to it. My roommate at the time sat on the UMASS working group (he is currently the leader of the Alumni Basketball fundraising arm) that reviewed the process from UMASS' perspective. Again, had UMASS and most importantly, BU, not nixed football and hockey...things COULD...I repeat COULD have been very different. Tough I still think UMASS goes FBS even earlier if the Commonwealth gave them the funding they asked for back 10 years ago.

As to my post stating UMASS was on board...yes...UMASS was initially on board. It was a small vocal few who were anti the whole thing. When BU nixed AE Hockey (which UMASS would have been a part of) the minority used that as the, "Why are we doing AE football drum...we are happy where we are and can look to FBS."

That's not flip flopping from me or misstating things...that was a fact. There were TONS and TONS of $$$ spent on reviewing all options.

You really think all the Colonial Clash fans were UMASS fans...come on now.

And sorry, you said there were NO DI playing schools in any sport. It's wrong...it's not fact...and you can't split hairs. I know the Dayton rule...very well.

You are bringing other things into your argument that has nothing to do with what I was stating...nothing at all.

2-Dane96, have to say you are consistent in your posts being wrong or out of context. For example take the underline portion from your post and look at my post.

And sorry, you said there were NO DI playing schools in any sport. It's wrong...it's not fact...and you can't split hairs. I know the Dayton rule...very well.

Never said any sport.


UMass and Massachusetts is very different as only the flagship has Division 1 Basketball, Football, Lacrosse, Softball, Field Hockey, and Rowing.
…
There is synergy combining the five schools under the UMass umbrella with only the flagship having Division 1 Sports.
UMass-Lowell having a grandfather Hockey Division 1 sport does not take away from the point that Massachusetts will only have the Flagship University with FBS Football and other Division 1 sports.

Regarding an earlier post of your friend connected with UMass fund raising was not thrilled with the FBS upgrade. You now clarified that he is connect with basketball fund raising and believe he is not thrilled based on personal experience. My personal example is that my donations are generally to the unrestricted sports. In the last few years had some extra money and gave more and even gave $300 to the Basketball “Court Club”. Now with FBS Football guess what, if I have extra money would give to Football “100yd Club “and not to the “Court Club”.

The post that caught your attentions was a refutation of ‘citdog’ assertions that we would eliminate Football in 15 years as BU.

Really hope others can make the jump work. There are very few programs like Delaware making money in the FCS. If the extra revenue for greater buy game pay-offs and an extra buy game can pay for the additional scholarships, great. If the extra money from other revenue streams can pay for the extra expenses and coaches salaries, great. Due your do diligence and see if you have the support from all parties.

[Dane96]

"There is synergy combining the five schools under the UMass umbrella with only the flagship having Division 1 Sports."

Now just go away...you are bringing a knife to a gun battle.

As for my connection with UMASS...let me make it clearer since you are just embarrassing yourself. I have more than one affiliation/contact as it relates to UMASS sports. I just happened to live with one for numerous years in my earlier life. All that means squat because we are getting away from the true point; The posts (yes, plural) that had caught my attention were that were based on your colorful assumptions regarding all that associated with the FBS move...and why UMass having a downtown club on the 33rd floor is a big deal.

And don't tell me what caught my attention regarding posts. The only Citdog posts that catch my attention are when he uses a good Yiddish word like Schmeckle...or when i need to be reminded on why we are sewer scum.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

How many schools are currently in FCS, not countiing those transitioning to FBS? How many do not offer scholarships or offer less than 63?

I don't see the NCAA creating another tier of football unless the BCS schools force their way out.

There are currently 245 Division I schools playing football. 120 are FBS and 125 FCS.

There are 65 schools in BCS Conferences plus Notre Dame makes 66.

There are 33 schools in the Patriot, Ivy, Pioneer, and NEC conferences which do not offer scholarships, offer need-based grants, or (NEC) offer 34 moving to 40 by 2013. The SWAC has another 10 teams not participating in playoffs.

The 100+ schools above represent the Top and "Bottom" of DI Football. The middle is more muddled.

A BCS raid of CUSA, MW, and WAC to create Championship games in the PAC 10 and Big East (Big 10 will do it when Nebraska joins) will leave 48-50 FBS schools in non-BCS status. Those non-BCS conferences, if they wish to survive, will in turn raid the Big Sky, CAA, SoCon, and MVC of FCS to bring their numbers up.

The easiest way to see which schools belong in competition with each other is to look at Budget and Attendance numbers. There are exceptions, but most schools will fall into one of the three levels just on those numbers.

App St, Montana, Old Dominion, Delaware, Ga Southern, Jax St., JMU, NDSU, and YSU are all currently at or above average attendance levels for most teams in Sun Belt, WAC, and MAC.

I'm going to stop the discussion here because there are too many variables for reasonable speculation. Suffice to say that a BCS realignment will have a trickle down effect throughout DI Football.

[Dane96]

Eagle...the NEC is up to 40 in 2012.

Just the facts maam...just the facts.

[The Eagle's Cliff]

Eagle...the NEC is up to 40 in 2012.

Just the facts maam...just the facts.


NEC Commissioner Brenda Weare said NEC presidents agreed at a June 11 meeting to add two per year over the next five years bringing its total to 40 by 2013.

From an admittedly old article (2008), but other sources confirm target date of 2013 which I interpret to mean "by the end of 2012". Semantics - The post I was responding to asked about which schools offer scholarships at all or under the maximum.


http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/log/index.php/2008/07/01/nec-to-add-two-football-scholarships-for?blog=2

[ursus arctos horribilis]

The study that UNI did last summer concluded the same. The money just wouldn't be there to get through the move up, or sustain it once we got there.

That's the thing if the fans want this so bad then get your skin in the game and I'm not talking about the level of skin you are currently at. Some may or may not be making serious contributions but even if you are you probably need to at least double it and if you aren't...well you and others like you are probably one of the things holding your university back.

This is actually pretty similar to the discussion on SoCon sports moving to PBS a few weeks back. You want it then offer to put together the group and get the money out there for em'.

[frozennorth]

The ndsu people I know generally seem to support going to fbs. It probably won't happen until there is some sustained success in football and basketball. With the distance to the next nearest fbs schools, the size of the fargo market, decent tradition, etc, they would have a chance of success.

[Skjellyfetti]

GSU's study a couple of years ago said the money wasn't there. Montana's study said it was doable but the options of where to go is not there to make the financial end work out. App is in that same spot.

Remains to be seen. Our study is ongoing. xthumbsupx

[citdog]

Remains to be seen. Our study is ongoing. xthumbsupx

It took Kissinger less time to end Vietnam.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Remains to be seen. Our study is ongoing. xthumbsupx

True Skelly but from what's been said how quick do you think that study would wrap up if a CUSA invite were on the table?

that's all I was getting at.