SoCon to vote on Charlotte joining for football (June 16th) [Archive]

chattanoogamocs

June 3rd, 2011, 12:23 AM

From Friday's TFP...

On Thursday, officials from UNC Charlotte made a presentation regarding its new football program and possibly joining the SoCon as an associate member, in football only. Charlotte will begin play in 2013.

“We didn’t vote on it or make any kind of decision,” University of Tennessee at Chattanooga athletic director Rick Hart said. “I anticipate that it’s something the [presidents] will take up and vote amongst themselves. As ADs, I think we’re comfortable and happy with where we are in terms of membership.”

Iamarino said the presidents are scheduled to meet on June 16 and a vote on Charlotte will likely be done then. He said the 12-member SoCon is “already fairly diverse when it comes to not only football, but the entire membership. There are questions of do we want to add to that diversity by taking an associate in a high-profile sport.”

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/03/socon-seeks-hoops-boost/

T-Dog

June 3rd, 2011, 12:35 AM

xeyebrowx

So if this were to happen, they would join in 2015, correct?

chattanoogamocs

June 3rd, 2011, 12:46 AM

I don't think it is going to happen (you can tell by the tenor of Rick Hart that it doesn't sound like there is much interest).

The SoCon has a balanced home and away schedule with 9 teams...and we all know Charlotte is going to jump at the first chance they get. Unless there is a some sort of significant money involved, I don't really see any upside for the SoCon

(though maybe I am missing something...if someone can think of something Charlotte brings to the table for the SoCon, let me know)

PantherRob82

June 3rd, 2011, 02:53 AM

They won't bring more attention with the Charlotte market? I see the cons, but I would think that would be a pro.

OL FU

June 3rd, 2011, 04:43 AM

Would they vote if not for some interest? Maybe someone can fill me in on how this works.

I am not a big fan of affiliate members. Don't care who they are. With that said, affiliate members may be the only practical solution. If ASU is leaving, there does not appear to many attractive large public insitutions to take their place a full member.

OL FU

June 3rd, 2011, 04:45 AM

They won't bring more attention with the Charlotte market? I see the cons, but I would think that would be a pro.

that is a good question, would they bring more interest from the Charlotte market (will not more, but enough to make it worthwhile). Once Again I don't know. Would be interesting to hear from one who might.

Smitty

June 3rd, 2011, 06:26 AM

They won't bring more attention with the Charlotte market? I see the cons, but I would think that would be a pro.

Honestly with Duke NC State UNC App and other colleges that are just popular, I don't think there is a lot of Charlotte left. I didn't even know that UNC Charlotte even existed before they announced they were playing football.

superman7515

June 3rd, 2011, 06:33 AM

Doesn't sound overly enthusiastic about anyone new joining, associate or otherwise, with this quote: “As ADs, I think we’re comfortable and happy with where we are in terms of membership.”

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 06:58 AM

If the BCS jumps out of D-I, then the SoCon is going to be in the top division anyway. Charlotte or not Charlotte, it'll be a moot point in a few years.

PaladinFan

June 3rd, 2011, 07:31 AM

Honestly with Duke NC State UNC App and other colleges that are just popular, I don't think their is a lot of Charlotte left. I didn't even know that UNC Charlotte even existed before they announced they were playing football.

I kind of agree. Charlotte, like Atlanta, is full of alumns from a lot of the other SoCon schools as well. There's already a market for SoCon football.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 07:35 AM

OL FU

June 3rd, 2011, 07:59 AM

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 08:08 AM

Would the fans of the SoCon really want ASU's athletic program without football?

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 08:14 AM

The SoCon losing App to FBS and replacing us with UNCC makes since to me. They have the makings to be competitive, at least at the FCS level. It would be a good way for the SoCon to maintain a presence (albiate a smaller one) in Charlotte after losing App.

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 08:15 AM

Would the fans of the SoCon really want ASU's athletic program without football?

Not if they want to win the commissioners cup.

citdog

June 3rd, 2011, 08:18 AM

don't need 'em.....don't want 'em appy ain't goin nowhere

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 08:34 AM

Would the SoCon support ASU if we wanted to be an associate member, football only, at a FBS conference? If they would not as I would expect (I personally wouldn't allow it), then the SoCon should say no to UNCC football only. No more associate members. All or nothing and we know the answer to that.

Well, VMI is a member for Wrestling. Davidson, CofC and UNCG participate without football. From a personal opinion of most of us football fans, schools in here should be playing football.

I guess the real question is, would App fans be happy elsewhere for football and in the SoCon for everything else? App fans have more of a hangup with the SoCon overall than the do with football specifically.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 3rd, 2011, 08:45 AM

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 09:18 AM

Well, VMI is a member for Wrestling. Davidson, CofC and UNCG participate without football. From a personal opinion of most of us football fans, schools in here should be playing football.

I guess the real question is, would App fans be happy elsewhere for football and in the SoCon for everything else? App fans have more of a hangup with the SoCon overall than the do with football specifically.

I'd prefer to leave for all sports, but given the choice stay in the SoCon for all sports or FBS for football and SoCon for everything else I'd choose FBS football. That would actually make it easier, reduce expenses while revenues increase.

citdog

June 3rd, 2011, 09:19 AM

I'd prefer to leave for all sports, but given the choice stay in the SoCon for all sports or FBS for football and SoCon for everything else I'd choose FBS football. That would actually make it easier, reduce expenses while revenues increase.

sorry but if a GOOD school like VMI was told no thanks......don't think this will be an option for the ned beatty's

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 09:22 AM

Let's see. Don't take a school that strengthens your conference, provides extra buffer if App State or Georgia Southern leave, is a huge public with a large TV market... why?

Because App and Citadel fans don't like them?

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. xrolleyesx

Let's bend over backwards for a program with no football history and allow them to keep the sports that would actually benefit the SoCon in other conferences. This is like an IT company acquiring only the IT startup portion of a decent manufacturing company who recently started up the IT sector of their business with no prior experience in that field. All or nothing just like the CAA stated. I still think UNCC should have taken that deal.

henfan

June 3rd, 2011, 10:06 AM

Let's see. Don't take a school that strengthens your conference, provides extra buffer if App State or Georgia Southern leave, is a huge public with a large TV market... why?

Because App and Citadel fans don't like them?

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. xrolleyesx

Of course, SoCon CEO's will make a call based on what's best for the SoCon as a whole. They don't have only FB to look after here.

Accepting a FB affiliate might actually devalue the conference's ability to leverage future deals with potential candidates. I totally get that and I'm glad the CAA gets that as well.xthumbsupx

Cocky

June 3rd, 2011, 10:12 AM

Let's bend over backwards for a program with no football history and allow them to keep the sports that would actually benefit the SoCon in other conferences. This is like an IT company acquiring only the IT startup portion of a decent manufacturing company who recently started up the IT sector of their business with no prior experience in that field. All or nothing just like the CAA stated. I still think UNCC should have taken that deal.

It would make the SOCON appear beneath the CAA.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 10:21 AM

They are trending that way.

OL FU

June 3rd, 2011, 11:36 AM

Let's see. Don't take a school that strengthens your conference, provides extra buffer if App State or Georgia Southern leave, is a huge public with a large TV market... why?

Because App and Citadel fans don't like them?

Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. xrolleyesx

I don't like associate members but I think our options are limited. On the other hand, if they plan to move to FBS like Georgia State then I definitely don't want them. No need to invite in someone with intentions on leaving before they get here.

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 11:51 AM

OL FU

June 3rd, 2011, 12:10 PM

I'll just add this. I doubt we invited ourselves to make this presentation to the SoCon so at least a few of the schools are interested to see what can be done to make this happen. The map of college athletics, especially football, may be changing dramatically in the next few years. Now is not the time for any conference, whether BCS, FBS of FCS, to rest on their laurels. The SoCon, like many conferences, want to stay as far ahead of the game as they can. Whether Charlotte as a football-only is part of that strategy will be up to the college presidents/chancellors of the SoCon.

I agree. That was my point earlier. I can't imagine this being voted on if there was no interest. Not that it will or won't happen, I have no clue. but I can't imaging that there haven't been multiple conversations most schools to gauge the interest.

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 12:10 PM

I'll just add this, have fun in the big south

GaSouthern

June 3rd, 2011, 12:12 PM

All sports member: Yes
Just football member: NO

I'd rather have Coastal Carolina

Lehigh Football Nation

June 3rd, 2011, 12:15 PM

I'd rather have Coastal Carolina

I think this quote says it all. xlolx

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 12:16 PM

All sports member: Yes
Just football member: NO

I'd rather have Coastal Carolina

Sorry, not willing to commit basketball suicide just yet.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 12:18 PM

I'll just add this. I doubt we invited ourselves to make this presentation to the SoCon so at least a few of the schools are interested to see what can be done to make this happen. The map of college athletics, especially football, may be changing dramatically in the next few years. Now is not the time for any conference, whether BCS, FBS of FCS, to rest on their laurels. The SoCon, like many conferences, want to stay as far ahead of the game as they can. Whether Charlotte as a football-only is part of that strategy will be up to the college presidents/chancellors of the SoCon.

How is adding a program that has stated they want to use your conference as a stepping stone helping the SoCon? At your next job interview walk in and tell them you'd like to come work for them for 2 years and leave, let me know how that goes. That can be the plan, and it is for some people, you just can't say it out loud. UNCC would have been better off down playing the desire to go FBS until after they found a home. The cat is out of the bag and he isn't going back in.

91Niner

June 3rd, 2011, 12:27 PM

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 12:34 PM

How is adding a program that has stated they want to use your conference as a stepping stone helping the SoCon? At your next job interview walk in and tell them you'd like to come work for them for 2 years and leave, let me know how that goes. That can be the plan, and it is for some people, you just can't say it out loud. UNCC would have been better off down playing the desire to go FBS until after they found a home. The cat is out of the bag and he isn't going back in.

Then why is the SoCon talking to us at all? This isn't a job interview, this is a buisness association. This is taking on a partner in a buisness that may bring some benefit that can help stablize that buisness in what looks to be a pretty rocky upcoming period in the business of college football. If you've seen somewhere where Charlotte is jumping to FBS in 2015 please post it cause I would love to see that. If we're in FCS for 5 or more years then perhaps the SoCon sees some benefit to us as members? Clearly some schools in the SoCon think that cause we are making this presentation to them in the first place.

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 12:48 PM

Sorry, not willing to commit basketball suicide just yet.

I thought you did that when you couldn't win 2 games this year. If you went SoCon for BBall only you wouldn't even win the conference. If not for the many other reasons, the presidents should vote no just to keep their fan base out. You will find no other human being on the planet with such delusions of grandeur.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 3rd, 2011, 12:50 PM

I thought you did that when you couldn't win 2 games this year. If you went SoCon for BBall only you wouldn't even win the conference. If not for the many other reasons, the presidents should vote no just to keep their fan base out.

Voting "no" because it would bring more fans into SoCon football. Now there's a business/growth strategy I've never thought of before.

App-a-latch-un

June 3rd, 2011, 01:00 PM

Don't see it benefiting the SoCon overall, hope it doesn't happen.

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 01:20 PM

I thought you did that when you couldn't win 2 games this year. If you went SoCon for BBall only you wouldn't even win the conference. If not for the many other reasons, the presidents should vote no just to keep their fan base out. You will find no other human being on the planet with such delusions of grandeur.

I can think of another fan base who's delusions of grandeur far outstrip our own. But please, keep counting window stickers. It's nice to see you have something to fill your time with between December and August every year.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 01:22 PM

Then why is the SoCon talking to us at all? This isn't a job interview, this is a buisness association. This is taking on a partner in a buisness that may bring some benefit that can help stablize that buisness in what looks to be a pretty rocky upcoming period in the business of college football. If you've seen somewhere where Charlotte is jumping to FBS in 2015 please post it cause I would love to see that. If we're in FCS for 5 or more years then perhaps the SoCon sees some benefit to us as members? Clearly some schools in the SoCon think that cause we are making this presentation to them in the first place.

A job is a business association. So yes the analogy holds true. It is a secret to NO ONE that UNCC does not wish to stay in the FCS for very long. Please don't try to spin this that you or anyone associated with UNCC would be content with staying at the FCS level for more than 4 years. You guys think you're the next South Florida, nothing wrong with that, but don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.

If you doubt that UNCC didn't invite themselves, aka networked with SoCon officials then you don't have a lot of confidence in your leadership and frankly I'd find new leaders. They should be talking with every conference on the east coast trying to find an angle that is best for them. They likely contacted SoCon officials 6 to 9 months ago, had dinner, drinks, etc., built a relationship, and then made the pitch to give a 30 minute presentation at their next meeting. This is what proactive leaders do. If UNCC is waiting on conferences to invite them to the table you guys are in trouble. Again I don't think they are, but that is the message you're trying to send.

As a background what was/is your major at UNCC?

henfan

June 3rd, 2011, 01:31 PM

It would be foolish for the SoCon to not a least let UNCC give their spiel, regardless of whether or not they are interested in expanding with an affiliate. If the big conference changes are on the horizon as some here suggest, who's to say that UNCC won't someday need to find all sport membership in a conference that makes more competitive/geographic sense for them? So you politely listen and then inform UNCC that a FB slot awaits them if they join for all sports. As was ALLEGEDLY the case with the CAA, the SoCon will be in a position to put the ball back in UNCC's court to see how serious they are about making a commitment to the SoCon or if they are only interested in playing them for fools.

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 01:34 PM

A job is a business association. So yes the analogy holds true. It is a secret to NO ONE that UNCC does not wish to try FCS for very long. Please don't try to spin this that you or anyone associated with UNCC would be content with staying at the FCS level for more than 4 years. You guys think you're the next South Florida, nothing wrong with that, but don't talk out of both sides of your mouth.

If you doubt that UNCC didn't invite themselves, aka networked with SoCon officials then you don't have a lot of confidence in your leadership and frankly I'd find new leaders. They should be talking with every conference on the east coast trying to find an angle that is best for them. They likely contacted SoCon officials 6 to 9 months ago, had dinner, drinks, etc., built a relationship, and then made the pitch to give a 30 minute presentation at their next meeting. This is what proactive leaders do. If UNCC is waiting on conferences to invite them to the table you guys are in trouble. Again I don't think they are, but that is the message you're trying to send.

As a background what was/is your major at UNCC?

No, no one here would be satisfied with long term FCS membership; but there's a big difference between the South Florida model (3 years at FCS) and the one we are following. 5 to 10 years of FCS would be acceptable to our fanbase. Greater than that would be pushing it though. I doubt any conference holds any of its current or potential future member to a standard of multi-decade membership commitment so as long as we won't move up in the next 5 years, which is likely, then I don't see a "commitment" issue.

Yes, yes, but someone at the SoCon had to be interested enough to have us come make the presentation.

I have a degree in Mechanical Engineering from UNC Charlotte.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 01:48 PM

Engineering, very nice. I deal with engineers regularly, I hope you don't take this the wrong way as I have the utmost respect for your field, but you guys just think differently than business majors.

See henfan's post he brings up a good point, both parties are covering their bases. It doesn't hurt to listen to UNCC, ask for full membership, and then let them step away from the table. Having the other party walk away from the table can be very beneficial down the road if paths cross again.

ninerID

June 3rd, 2011, 02:11 PM

Can someone please post an article where the Charlotte Athletic Department or anyone within the administration said we were going to FBS in "X years" or where anyone from either of those groups said we were going to use the SoCon/CAA as a stepping stone?

I'd sure like to see it. I've followed the football thing closely, nobody refrains from showing their hand better than Charlotte.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 02:17 PM

I'd love to play poker with you sometime.

asumike83

June 3rd, 2011, 02:18 PM

In terms of potential benefit for the SoCon, I think it would be a bad move to add them for football only. All sports is another issue but adding a school with a start-up football program while leaving out the programs (basketball, baseball) that would actually increase the profile of our conference would make no sense to me.

Having said that, from a purely spectator standpoint I would enjoy seeing ASU play UNCC on an annual basis. Being a Charlotte resident I would love to tailgate in my back yard for some ASU football every couple of years. I know there is a chance that ASU may not be in the conference long enough for this to happen but until we hear otherwise, ASU is a SoCon member.

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 02:20 PM

ninerID

June 3rd, 2011, 02:27 PM

I'd love to play poker with you sometime.
i'll take your joke attempt as you couldn't find an article but yet want to keep plugging away with your "they said they want to use the SoCon as a stepping stone" bit.

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 02:30 PM

Where are all the bigsouth school fans? Don't they want to learn about their future conference mate?

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 02:37 PM

i'll take your joke attempt as you couldn't find an article but yet want to keep plugging away with your "they said they want to use the SoCon as a stepping stone" bit.

Perception is reality. I've listened to UNCC's coach on 610AM here in Charlotte, everyone knows it. This may be one of the worst kept "secrets" in local sports. Honestly do you believe the CAA, SoCon, and Big South don't know this? This isn't a "bit" it is the truth, why do you try to deny it?

asumike83

June 3rd, 2011, 02:45 PM

i'll take your joke attempt as you couldn't find an article but yet want to keep plugging away with your "they said they want to use the SoCon as a stepping stone" bit.

From the UNC Charlotte blog on the Charlotte Observer written by David Scott:

"Athletics director Judy Rose said she has been in contact with the Big South, Southern Conference and Colonial Athletic Association about joining as an associate member for football. Rose said the 49ers' intent to eventually move to FBS from FCS has complicated efforts to join a FCS league on what would be a temporary basis."

http://gmine.blogspot.com/2011/02/49ers-first-fbs-opponent-hokies.html

ninerID

June 3rd, 2011, 02:47 PM

Perception is reality. I've listened to UNCC's coach on 610AM here in Charlotte, everyone knows it. This may be one of the worst kept "secrets" in local sports. Honestly do you believe the CAA, SoCon, and Big South don't know this? This isn't a "bit" it is the truth, why do you try to deny it?
Lambert will bring up "the plan", but he won't talk about it. There is no timetable. We want to move up eventually, but apparently App does too. There is a lot of reading (or listening) between the lines, but nothing solid. As a Charlotte fan, when you don't absolutely know, you don't get your hopes up.

Similarly, us talking to the SoCon could be read that we are slowing it down a little. We have an almost full schedule for the first 2 seasons (play 4 SoCon schools in 2014). If we were going to only stick around in FCS for another 2-3 years it wouldn't be worthwhile to join a conference in any agreement. The fees to leave the conference and the lack of scheduling freedom for the transition period would be harmful.

From the UNC Charlotte blog on the Charlotte Observer written by David Scott:

"Athletics director Judy Rose said she has been in contact with the Big South, Southern Conference and Colonial Athletic Association about joining as an associate member for football. Rose said the 49ers' intent to eventually move to FBS from FCS has complicated efforts to join a FCS league on what would be a temporary basis."

http://gmine.blogspot.com/2011/02/49ers-first-fbs-opponent-hokies.html
not denying we have intentions to move up, but still no timetable. If we didn't have any intentions to go FBS for 10 years after our initial 2 years, i wouldn't consider that a stepping stone. Elon and Samford haven't been in the SoCon that long, Wofford only a few more years than that. We don't even have a mystical CUSA invite at this point.

chattownmocs

June 3rd, 2011, 02:54 PM

Charlotte has potential to be a big time athletic program at this level. I think they would be a great add.

asumike83

June 3rd, 2011, 02:57 PM

not denying we have intentions to move up, but still no timetable. If we didn't have any intentions to go FBS for 10 years after our initial 2 years, i wouldn't consider that a stepping stone. Elon and Samford haven't been in the SoCon that long, Wofford only a few more years than that. We don't even have a mystical CUSA invite at this point.

I understand that, but I think the point is that their intent to move up (regardless of time frame) has been well documented and thus, any FCS conference will view it as a stepping-stone move.

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 03:00 PM

That's just not true 91. We have a HUGE alum base in Charlotte. These are the fans who have already proven they will drive 2 hours to join the 32k in KBS. The % of that 32k that likely drive up from the Charlotte area will absolutely be more than you have at the onset of your program.

How many times do we have to go over this?

Your own alumni association figures show you have around 30,000 alumni in the Charlotte DMA. That's from Avery and Watagua all the way to York County South Carolina. If that's your HUGE alumni base in Charlotte then hold on to your seat cause UNC Charlotte has double that figure (60,000) within a 50 mile radius of the campus. You don't see any of us bragging about how HUGE that is, now do ya?

Apphole

June 3rd, 2011, 03:07 PM

How many times do we have to go over this?

Your own alumni association figures show you have around 30,000 alumni in the Charlotte DMA. That's from Avery and Watagua all the way to York County South Carolina. If that's your HUGE alumni base in Charlotte then hold on to your seat cause UNC Charlotte has double that figure (60,000) within a 50 mile radius of the campus. You don't see any of us bragging about how HUGE that is, now do ya?

Is that why you rarely even half fill your 12,000 seat BBall venue? That's te thing about glorified community colleges/trade schools. You churn out alums, but how many of them actually give two s***s about the school? UNCC offers absolutely no college experience. It is tailor made for working adults with families. That's all fine and good but it doesn't exactly translate into a viable fanfare for sports as evidenced by the fact that you still haven't sold all your tickets and your BBall attendance for the size of your school/the fact that it's a basketball school.

ninerID

June 3rd, 2011, 03:53 PM

Is that why you rarely even half fill your 12,000 seat BBall venue? That's te thing about glorified community colleges/trade schools. You churn out alums, but how many of them actually give two s***s about the school? UNCC offers absolutely no college experience. It is tailor made for working adults with families. That's all fine and good but it doesn't exactly translate into a viable fanfare for sports as evidenced by the fact that you still haven't sold all your tickets and your BBall attendance for the size of your school/the fact that it's a basketball school.
our arena holds 9100, we had 6070 a game last season (an abysmal one).

On the other hand, App holds 8300 and you put an amazing 1748 a game. Great Job!
(http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/8753820042742b01b8b6be967b4a3893/Awide_Mbkbattlists.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=8753820042742b01b8b6be967b4a3893)

The numbers are almost as different as our endowments:
Appalachian State: $56 million
what you refer to as a "Trade School": $105.6 million

and number of doctoral programs:
App State: 1
what you refer to as a "Trade School": 19

The Cats

June 3rd, 2011, 03:53 PM

I find it very interesting that the very same people that want out of the SoCon so badly, are the very same people so dead set against someone else wanting into the conference.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 03:58 PM

I find it very interesting that the very same people that want out of the SoCon so badly, are the very same people so dead set against someone else wanting into the conference.

We don't mind them for ALL sports, big difference. My point is the SoCon would not allow ASU's non-football sports to remain in the SoCon (my gut feeling only of course), so why consider a football only member.

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:09 PM

They are trending that way.

How? How is the SoCon trending this way, even if Samford and Elon weren't here and VMI and ETSU were?

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:14 PM

That's just not true 91. We have a HUGE alum base in Charlotte. These are the fans who have already proven they will drive 2 hours to join the 32k in KBS. The % of that 32k that likely drive up from the Charlotte area will absolutely be more than you have at the onset of your program.

That is an unprovable assertion. There are no stats available that dictate how many come from Charlotte to App games vs any other region. Let alone the fact that you are stating there are more App fans in Charlotte than will come to a UNCC game. Seriously, you are making this argument? Seriously?

And I find it completely ironic that App Fans, the ones who want out, are the vocal group on who should or should not be in the conference.

bjtheflamesfan

June 3rd, 2011, 04:15 PM

Is that why you rarely even half fill your 12,000 seat BBall venue? That's te thing about glorified community colleges/trade schools. You churn out alums, but how many of them actually give two s***s about the school? UNCC offers absolutely no college experience. It is tailor made for working adults with families. That's all fine and good but it doesn't exactly translate into a viable fanfare for sports as evidenced by the fact that you still haven't sold all your tickets and your BBall attendance for the size of your school/the fact that it's a basketball school.

Ok guys, I know that you have your issues and what not, but you are on notice...tone it down so that I or somebody else doesnt have to step in. I mean I enjoy spirited debate as much as the next guy but you guys are starting to rival UND/NDSU fans in your ability to turn any discussion into a feud.

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:18 PM

We don't mind them for ALL sports, big difference. My point is the SoCon would not allow ASU's non-football sports to remain in the SoCon (my gut feeling only of course), so why consider a football only member.

Allowing a school in without football, or as an associate member is admitting entry knowing that the contract being made is for a partial product.

Allowing a current school out for part of the product they committed to bring is a completely different scenario. You quote business vs engineering a second ago to quote about the business logic. The point you are questioning, and the comparison are completely different items business-wise.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 04:20 PM

How? How is the SoCon trending this way, even if Samford and Elon weren't here and VMI and ETSU were?

I'll bend a little and say the SoCon is as strong as it was when Marshall was around (I don't believe it, but it'll make the argument easier). So let's start with the SoCon is on par with itself 15 years ago. The CAA in the last 5 years has dropped NE, Hofstra, and now Rhode Island. They will add ODU this year and Georgia St. in football soon. That is trading up.

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:23 PM

I'll bend a little and say the SoCon is as strong as it was when Marshall was around (I don't believe it, but it'll make the argument easier). So let's start with the SoCon is on par with itself 15 years ago. The CAA in the last 5 years has dropped NE, Hofstra, and now Rhode Island. They will add ODU this year and Georgia St. in football soon. That is trading up.

But that's it, you are talking as a conference or football only? Cause NE and Hofstra are still in the CAA. Rhode Island was an associate member. When you look at ETSU and VMI overall, Elon and Samford were both trades up. So, if the SoCon is just on par with where it was, then is that the fault of the new schools or the schools that existed before?

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 04:31 PM

Allowing a school in without football, or as an associate member is admitting entry knowing that the contract being made is for a partial product.

Allowing a current school out for part of the product they committed to bring is a completely different scenario. You quote business vs engineering a second ago to quote about the business logic. The point you are questioning, and the comparison are completely different items business-wise.

ASU finishes in the top 3 in commish cup standings with or without football so they DO bring a better product to the table then most of the conference members even without football. They routinely win the German Cup as well.

You are correct in that the SoCon shouldn't do either, they should take all or nothing from both ASU and UNCC (as I've stated). UNCC without basketball and baseball doesn't add up (especially as it would be short-term for football). ASU without football doesn't add up either.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 04:38 PM

But that's it, you are talking as a conference or football only? Cause NE and Hofstra are still in the CAA. Rhode Island was an associate member. When you look at ETSU and VMI overall, Elon and Samford were both trades up. So, if the SoCon is just on par with where it was, then is that the fault of the new schools or the schools that existed before?

Football, but overall they also are trending up (due to basketball). Obviously the CAA is a much better basketball conference, which trumps baseball for me personally.

I guess you forgot the Marshall for Wofford trade, Wofford has improved, but that is an obvious trade down. ETSU made the playoffs, let's see if Elon can maintain their level of play before we say that's a trade up, VMI I'll agree. Each move the CAA has made is a trade up.

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:47 PM

Football, but overall they also are trending up (due to basketball). Obviously the CAA is a much better basketball conference, which trumps baseball for me personally.

I guess you forgot the Marshall for Wofford trade, Wofford has improved, but that is an obvious trade down. ETSU made the playoffs, let's see if Elon can maintain their level of play before we say that's a trade up, VMI I'll agree. Each move the CAA has made is a trade up.

Wofford < Marshall probably
Elon > VMI most definitely proven, even with Seagraves it was above VMI, maybe not a lot, but it was
Samford > ETSU - I don't care if ETSU made the playoffs in the 90s. We are talking about the product the ended with even before canning football

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 04:50 PM

ASU finishes in the top 3 in commish cup standings with or without football so they DO bring a better product to the table then most of the conference members even without football. They routinely win the German Cup as well.

You are correct in that the SoCon shouldn't do either, they should take all or nothing from both ASU and UNCC (as I've stated). UNCC without basketball and baseball doesn't add up (especially as it would be short-term for football). ASU without football doesn't add up either.

We're not talking about what is or isn't a better product (meaning, it doesn't matter if App wins the conf cup with or without football). From a contractual perspective, if I make a contract with someone knowing that I will do X and Y but not Z; then the participants in the contract know the limitations of this deal. If I make a contact with someone for X, Y and Z and said person wants to take Z away, then the first agreement has been broken.

All I am saying is, UNCG/Davidson/CofC were taken knowing it was for X and Y. ETSU and VMI were taken for X, Y and Z and both took away Z. UNCC wants to bring Z without X and Y. And informed decision and contract can be made knowing what a school is bringing rather than having a school bnring it and take it away. I am saying, the situations are completely different.

Personally, I want all or nothing.

Mntneer

June 3rd, 2011, 07:03 PM

TheBisonator

June 3rd, 2011, 07:27 PM

Ok guys, I know that you have your issues and what not, but you are on notice...tone it down so that I or somebody else doesnt have to step in. I mean I enjoy spirited debate as much as the next guy but you guys are starting to rival UND/NDSU fans in your ability to turn any discussion into a feud.

He's right. No one holds dick length contests quite like the Bison and Sioux fans. And talking from experience, it's a road you don't want to go down.

49RFootballNow

June 3rd, 2011, 07:58 PM

Agree with all or nothing, and since it almost certainly won't be all.....then just no. And the discussions around number of alumni, endowment, etc all miss the point IMO. Which is that UNCC, despite being a good school is largely populated by either undergrad students that commute since they already lived in the area, or graduate students that are working and living in the area. Consequently they don't have a particularly vibrant campus life, and a large number of their alumni don't have an emotional attachment to the school. This of course is 100% opinion, but I think it's an opinion shared by a number of folks here.

This is correct, it's just opinion. 65% of UNC Charlotte's students live within 5 miles of campus. We have a full campus life. I have lived on campus, and right off campus. UNC Charlotte can and does cater to the commuter and the traditional student equally well, but we are no longer dominated by commuters. Football will also add to the traditional student life on this campus as we progressively move toward 40,000 students.

State Line Liquors

June 3rd, 2011, 08:25 PM

as we progressively move toward 40,000 students.

xrotatehx

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 09:11 PM

Wofford < Marshall probably
Elon > VMI most definitely proven, even with Seagraves it was above VMI, maybe not a lot, but it was
Samford > ETSU - I don't care if ETSU made the playoffs in the 90s. We are talking about the product the ended with even before canning football

Wofford < Marshall Probably??? put down whatever you are drinking and push the computer away.

gophoenix

June 3rd, 2011, 10:27 PM

Wofford < Marshall Probably??? put down whatever you are drinking and push the computer away.

Meaning, I don't way to say either way, this isn't about pissing off Wofford fans.

But overall, no matter how much Elon or Samford bashing people want to do, they are both better in football than who they replaces and have better athletics overall than who they replaced.

Saint3333

June 3rd, 2011, 10:45 PM

ElonAlum

June 3rd, 2011, 11:18 PM

I think it will all come down to pride and tradition with the SoCon. This is one of the oldest conferences in the nation and they wont just take any school. UNCC would be invited if they were to bring all sports but NEVER if it was just football. This is not a start up conference without heritage or history that is desperate for more football teams...especially ones that havent even played a game. The SoCon has plenty of football schools and they have chosen wisely with the last few additions (Elon and Samford are both upgrades over ETSU and VMI IMO)

Yes money is a factor but pride trumps that when it comes to the SoCon. Besides didnt the SoCon reject Coastal recently?? I may be wrong. Either way all of Coastal is a much better fit than just UNCC football.

Just my 2 cents

And I too am very intrigued by the amount of App fans giving there opinion when they are supposedly half way out the door anyway.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 4th, 2011, 07:23 AM

Either way all of Coastal is a much better fit than just UNCC football.

I am mystified as to why people feel this way. UNCC would bring a very large fan base - and despite their alleged plans to go FBS, they could realistically be in the SoCon for decades. Part of the affiliate deal (like UMass to the MAC) could involve SoCon teams getting guaranteed home games vs. UNCC in basketball or baseball, perhaps two a year. But getting Coastal's non-existent b-ball program and tiny FB program is better? xconfusedx

ChooChoo

June 4th, 2011, 07:31 AM

What I'm seeing with this Appalachian St.-Charlotte dynamic is very much like the Georgia Southern-Georgia State one. I saw a bit of this with Texas State-UTSA at first but it's gone to a large degree. They've settled down becuase they both move on, to seemingly greener pastures, to further develop their rivalry TOGETHER. Charlotte and Georgia St. are just seen as threats. Like the new kid who moves in to the neighborhood with decent looks, high GPA, plays sports, and has the girl's talking. Of course it's going to get the attention of the most popular kid on the block! A.) he doesnt want to lose his pecking order of respect among friends, B.) ditto his spot on the football team, C.) and especially amongst the ladies who've always given him the attention he craves. This is HIS neighborhood. He doesnt need someone coming in and messing up the deal he has going. However, all bets are off if they become friends (Tex St-UTSA or even Troy-South Alabama). It changes the whole dynamic.
No well established guy wants to be shown up by the outsider and especially on their own turf. I know because it was the subject of roughly 60% of all movies made between 1955 and 1989.
So the quicker we all get in the same conference, where we can settle it on the field and reap the same benefits collectively, the better.

The Eagle's Cliff

June 4th, 2011, 08:15 AM

I think the real problem for all "FCS" Conferences/Schools is that we garner very little attention or recognition from major media and, consequently, the public know very little about us. Given our relatively small budgets and popularity, the accomplishments of our athletics programs and student-athletes probably exceed those of Big Money U.

I wouldn't mind adding Charlotte as a full member, but they'll probably end up in the CAA if they just want the "football only" deal. Coastal Carolina should be the next member of the SoCon and would elevate our status in the Baseball world with College of Charleston, The Citadel, Elon, Georgia Southern, and Western Carolina.

BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n

June 4th, 2011, 09:19 AM

Samford > ETSU - I don't care if ETSU made the playoffs in the 90s. We are talking about the product the ended with even before canning football

Really? ETSU's last season was 5-7, closed out with two wins vs Chattanooga and The Citadel and that's with the players they had. I submit that had Stanton not made the decision to drop football, ETSU's last season could have easily been better than that. No offense to the Samford fans, Samford has not set the SoCon football world on fire either.

OL FU

June 4th, 2011, 09:49 AM

Wofford is much improved, but come on. Marshall went to 5 NC games winning 2 of them and averaged well over 20K a game while traveling better than any team in the SoCon. This isn't about pissing off Wofford fans this is discussing rationally which program was better. Losing two bottom half programs isn't hard to replace, losing a top tier FCS (top 3 at the time) program left a huge hole. That would be like the CAA losing Delaware (only worse). I dislike Marshall as much as any one, but they were one of the best 1-AA programs ever during their run in the mid-90's. The only runs that rival that one were GSU mid-80's, YSU early-mid 90's, GSU late 90's-2000, and ASU mid-00's.

Wofford > Marshall - - - -unless you think cheating is ok. Marshall should have been stripped of their last title and any movie made about them should have been called "We Are Cheaters". It wouldn't have been so bad except their basketball dominance in the 80's also came from cheating. I don't know about now. But breaking the rules was a systemic issue when Marshall was in the conference. Personally I think their last championship was an embarrassment to the entire division. I'll take a clean successful program like Wofford's any day.

The Eagle's Cliff

June 4th, 2011, 10:04 AM

PantherRob82

June 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM

Charlotte and Georgia St. are just seen as threats. Like the new kid who moves in to the neighborhood with decent looks, high GPA, plays sports, and has the girl's talking. Of course it's going to get the attention of the most popular kid on the block! A.) he doesnt want to lose his pecking order of respect among friends, B.) ditto his spot on the football team, C.) and especially amongst the ladies who've always given him the attention he craves.

I'm all for new teams joining the FCS level. It's fun and exciting.

What I don't get is the King Kong chest beating we get from GASt fans, even after the way last season went down. I wish everyone luck and hope that their fan base grows, but it still amazes me how posters from schools who have accomplished so little(or nothing) can be so egotistical.

ursus arctos horribilis

June 4th, 2011, 12:53 PM

I'm all for new teams joining the FCS level. It's fun and exciting.

What I don't get is the King Kong chest beating we get from GASt fans, even after the way last season went down. I wish everyone luck and hope that their fan base grows, but it still amazes me how posters from schools who have accomplished so little(or nothing) can be so egotistical.

It happens all thime with even schools that have been around a while. Until a fan base actually goes through what it took for their team to accomplish something at the FCS level they just don't have the background or the thoughts to realize sometimes that what they are saying is complete horseturds.

Hell even being almost there and just not sealing the deal let's you know how tough it is and what your school, team, & fans had to go through to get there. It humbles you in some facets. More than that though it gives you the massive respect for those that have done something.

There are fan bases that I love to read what they have to say because it like listening to a 15 yr. old dude telling you about the world. It's worth the laugh every time.

gophoenix

June 4th, 2011, 01:58 PM

Really? ETSU's last season was 5-7, closed out with two wins vs Chattanooga and The Citadel and that's with the players they had. I submit that had Stanton not made the decision to drop football, ETSU's last season could have easily been better than that. No offense to the Samford fans, Samford has not set the SoCon football world on fire either.

We're not talking about setting the world on fire, we are talking about the better addition for football and/or all sports in general. No one can argue that VMI or ETSU for the tens years prior were better than Elon or Wofford respectively. There just are not facts to support any argument to that affect. Saint made the argument that the SoCon is trending down, because of the additions, when on paper and statistically, that just is not true.

Stanton killed football for the last 2 years, but that doesn't explain the crap that was the ETSU program for all those years prior. Samford's performance and RPI are much higher.

gophoenix

June 4th, 2011, 02:02 PM

Wofford is much improved, but come on. Marshall went to 5 NC games winning 2 of them and averaged well over 20K a game while traveling better than any team in the SoCon. This isn't about pissing off Wofford fans this is discussing rationally which program was better. Losing two bottom half programs isn't hard to replace, losing a top tier FCS (top 3 at the time) program left a huge hole. That would be like the CAA losing Delaware (only worse). I dislike Marshall as much as any one, but they were one of the best 1-AA programs ever during their run in the mid-90's. The only runs that rival that one were GSU mid-80's, YSU early-mid 90's, GSU late 90's-2000, and ASU mid-00's.

No, I get what you're saying, but, you're talking about a program, not a program just at the level it was when it left. Marshall started as a terrible team, worked up to descent, and then had many hot or cold seasons before they ended up on a run that had questionable items all over the place. But they ended on fire. You're right. Overall, Wofford has presented much more stability than Marshall did over much of it's existence in the SoCon.

At the end Marshall >>>> Wofford
Overall, I just don't know, which is why I said maybe

TheBisonator

June 4th, 2011, 02:08 PM

UNCC should just join the CAA for all sports (incl. football). I don't think it would be too much of a hit for the basketball program. Sure, the A-10 has been historically better than the CAA, but in the past 5-10 years, the CAA has really stepped up its game, sending some of those teams to the Final Four. It would be a step down "on paper", mainly several RPI places, but it probably wouldn't make much difference. It's like if NDSU basketball moved from the Summit to the Big Sky. It's a slight step down mathematically, but it's mostly negligible.

bandit

June 4th, 2011, 03:48 PM

But getting Coastal's non-existent b-ball program and tiny FB program is better?

Last year Coastal Carolina was 24-6 and finished with an RPI of 101, higher than every Southern Conference school except one (College of Charleston) and much higher than Charlotte (#228). The year before they were 24-7 with a final RPI of 134 (in a down year for the Big South in terms of RPI). They have 7 Big South championships since 1988. Obviously Charlotte has a far superior program, that's not even debatable - but I don't think the Southern Conference is in any position to thumb its nose at Coastal Carolina and I would hardly call their b-ball program "non-existent" - that just betrays a complete lack of awareness of Coastal's athletic program.

Coastal's football stadium is currently at 9,112 with eventual capacity of 20k as the program continues to grow:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/brooks-stadium.html

And in 2012 they will open a beautiful new (albeit small) basketball arena which will seat 3600, which is larger than at least 2 current Southern Conference members, and only slightly smaller than the majority of Southern Conference members:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/convocation-center.html

TheBisonator

June 4th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Last year Coastal Carolina was 24-6 and finished with an RPI of 101, higher than every Southern Conference school except one (College of Charleston) and much higher than Charlotte (#228). The year before they were 24-7 with a final RPI of 134 (in a down year for the Big South in terms of RPI). They have 7 Big South championships since 1988. Obviously Charlotte has a far superior program, that's not even debatable - but I don't think the Southern Conference is in any position to thumb its nose at Coastal Carolina and I would hardly call their b-ball program "non-existent" - that just betrays a complete lack of awareness of Coastal's athletic program.

Coastal's football stadium is currently at 9,112 with eventual capacity of 20k as the program continues to grow:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/brooks-stadium.html

And in 2012 they will open a beautiful new (albeit small) basketball arena which will seat 3600, which is larger than at least 2 current Southern Conference members, and only slightly smaller than the majority of Southern Conference members:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/convocation-center.html

Would've really liked to see some inside shots of that arena. It gets tiring looking at the same exterior facade from dozens of different angles.

ChooChoo

June 4th, 2011, 07:10 PM

It happens all thime with even schools that have been around a while. Until a fan base actually goes through what it took for their team to accomplish something at the FCS level they just don't have the background or the thoughts to realize sometimes that what they are saying is complete horseturds.

Hell even being almost there and just not sealing the deal let's you know how tough it is and what your school, team, & fans had to go through to get there. It humbles you in some facets. More than that though it gives you the massive respect for those that have done something.

There are fan bases that I love to read what they have to say because it like listening to a 15 yr. old dude telling you about the world. It's worth the laugh every time.

HOWEVA....what you don't take into consideration is these "new fans" aren't new. We are new to supporting our school's new team but it's not like we are football or sports novices. 99.9% supported or rooted for a different team before our school's pulled the trigger. We have lofty ambitions because we've followed the ACC, SEC, BIG 10, SWC (etc) for years and years and know what it takes. Granted, just because we know what we want doesn't mean its that easy to obtain, but don't talk down to us like we just got off the boat to this strange new world.
If Joe Public was asked about college football, the vast majority of what he knew would be centered around the FBS schools. So when Joe Public University starts football, nobody should be surprised that the reaction and attitude isnt FBS centric. The majority here have this FCS mindset because your school requires it. The majority of us "newbie" schools don't because frankly, we never had to, we simply want to be like the other schools we've pulled for. And frankly, I don't think we should ever get stuck in a AA mindset because being complacent with our program at this juncture could eventually kill it. We know we need to go big or go home. Sure, we have to crawl before we walk, but if we're ever going to get anywhere, we're going to have to run too. It's the nature of the game now. Just my opinion but I'm sure the UTSAs, Charlottes of the board can agree.

Saint3333

June 4th, 2011, 09:17 PM

Saint made the argument that the SoCon is trending down, because of the additions, when on paper and statistically, that just is not true.

The point was the CAA is trending favorably to the SoCon as stated earlier. Marshall, ETSU, VMI vs. Wofford, Elon, Samford. That is a trend down to flat lining based upon personal perception. The CAA is definitely trending upward. Look at the A-10 vs. SoCon playoffs wins in the 1990's vs. the 2000's. It pains me to type this. The CAA has caught up with the SoCon and one could argue surpassed it.

ElonPride

June 4th, 2011, 10:36 PM

No, I get what you're saying, but, you're talking about a program, not a program just at the level it was when it left. Marshall started as a terrible team, worked up to descent, and then had many hot or cold seasons before they ended up on a run that had questionable items all over the place. But they ended on fire. You're right. Overall, Wofford has presented much more stability than Marshall did over much of it's existence in the SoCon.

At the end Marshall >>>> Wofford
Overall, I just don't know, which is why I said maybe

Interesting to see Saint link GSU, YSU, Marshall and App. Aside from winning championships, can anyone here guess common themes and or practices with these four "successful" football programs?

PantherRob82

June 4th, 2011, 10:40 PM

99.9% supported or rooted for a different team before our school's pulled the trigger.

...and judging by last season, 99.8% of them continued following the other team instead.

I hope to see GaSt find their own place to play and build a good tradition. I don't care what conference or subdivision they do it in. Just might be hard in Georgia Tech's shadow.

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 08:25 AM

The point was the CAA is trending favorably to the SoCon as stated earlier. Marshall, ETSU, VMI vs. Wofford, Elon, Samford. That is a trend down to flat lining based upon personal perception. The CAA is definitely trending upward. Look at the A-10 vs. SoCon playoffs wins in the 1990's vs. the 2000's. It pains me to type this. The CAA has caught up with the SoCon and one could argue surpassed it.

No, you stated that the SoCon was trending down. Personal opinion or not, no stats you can give that putting in teams that are tons better than VMI and ETSU isn't a trend up. You can argue Towso, as a trend down and losing two of your football schools (NE and Hofstra) is a trend down. Whether ODU or Ga St pan out to anything is left to be seen, so you can't even argue that that is a trend up or down.

Personal perception is just that. Otherwise, your argument is not fact base. And that's all I am saying.

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 08:27 AM

Last year Coastal Carolina was 24-6 and finished with an RPI of 101, higher than every Southern Conference school except one (College of Charleston) and much higher than Charlotte (#228). The year before they were 24-7 with a final RPI of 134 (in a down year for the Big South in terms of RPI). They have 7 Big South championships since 1988. Obviously Charlotte has a far superior program, that's not even debatable - but I don't think the Southern Conference is in any position to thumb its nose at Coastal Carolina and I would hardly call their b-ball program "non-existent" - that just betrays a complete lack of awareness of Coastal's athletic program.

Coastal's football stadium is currently at 9,112 with eventual capacity of 20k as the program continues to grow:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/brooks-stadium.html

And in 2012 they will open a beautiful new (albeit small) basketball arena which will seat 3600, which is larger than at least 2 current Southern Conference members, and only slightly smaller than the majority of Southern Conference members:

http://www.goccusports.com/facilities/convocation-center.html

And they also have a history of problems on the football team and have had NCAA sanctions, the only Big South school to have those, over the last two decades. Not to mention the APR for your sports.

Every good spot has a bad one. The last two are the reason Coastal isn't sitting in the SoCon now.

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 08:29 AM

SideLine Shooter

June 5th, 2011, 08:35 AM

No, you stated that the SoCon was trending down. Personal opinion or not, no stats you can give that putting in teams that are tons better than VMI and ETSU isn't a trend up. You can argue Towso, as a trend down and losing two of your football schools (NE and Hofstra) is a trend down. Whether ODU or Ga St pan out to anything is left to be seen, so you can't even argue that that is a trend up or down.

Personal perception is just that. Otherwise, your argument is not fact base. And that's all I am saying.

When elon came into the SoCon I had the perception that they were bringing down the SoCon's reputation. I was right.

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 09:39 AM

When elon came into the SoCon I had the perception that they were bringing down the SoCon's reputation. I was right.

And oh boy, here we go. The Elon vs App stuff starts. So, you make a comment like that and offer not backup, just like everyone else. Which means, just like the garbage against UNCC, it is baseless and nothing is provable.

The truth is, App fans are dead set against any in state school that offers any sort of competition to App's image. Western, UNCC and Elon all get the same garbage and same baseless comments from App fans.

App fans don't want to be here, but want to dictate how the conference makeup should be. Even taking UNCC as associate, how is that affecting the conference at all?

SideLine Shooter

June 5th, 2011, 09:45 AM

And oh boy, here we go. The Elon vs App stuff starts. So, you make a comment like that and offer not backup, just like everyone else. Which means, just like the garbage against UNCC, it is baseless and nothing is provable.

The truth is, App fans are dead set against any in state school that offers any sort of competition to App's image. Western, UNCC and Elon all get the same garbage and same baseless comments from App fans.

App fans don't want to be here, but want to dictate how the conference makeup should be. Even taking UNCC as associate, how is that affecting the conference at all?

It's all about perception.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 10:01 AM

It's all about perception.

Perception is reality.....that's sad.xnonono2x

The Eagle's Cliff

June 5th, 2011, 10:02 AM

Interesting to see Saint link GSU, YSU, Marshall and App. Aside from winning championships, can anyone here guess common themes and or practices with these four "successful" football programs?

Finish your thought with clarity. If you have an accusation to make, make it and give supporting evidence please.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 10:29 AM

Finish your thought with clarity. If you have an accusation to make, make it and give supporting evidence please.

Numerous arrests (App fans will sweep that one under the rug), NCAA violations, academic violations, loss of scholarships, shady recruiting tactics, scandal, etc.

Not an accusation, but fact. Each of those instances does not apply to all four mentioned, but all four have at least one....

GSU - Since the invention of the APR, every year GSU has been presented with loss of scholarships
ASU - numerous arrests. What makes this instance different than any other school in the SoCon? Other schools have a zero tolerance policy.
YSU - the truth is still coming out
The terds - numerous NCAA infractions

superman7515

June 5th, 2011, 10:39 AM

Finish your thought with clarity. If you have an accusation to make, make it and give supporting evidence please.

GSU was clearly cheating. It's a known fact that any team with a three letter abbreviation uses big money boosters, payoffs to referees, improvised explosive devices, any -ism you can think of, and threats to children that they will kill Santa. They even have a flowchart for teams with three letter abbreviations...

http://images.athlonsports.com/d/23324-1/College-coaches-cheating-flowchart.jpg

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 10:59 AM

It's all about perception.

You've still offered nothing to even back up your perception, let alone reality. So, my perception is, you're smack talking without one ounce of anything to back yourself up. Sort of like the UNCC opinions from App fans.

App fans best investment is to keep others so that it doesn't take the spotlight from them. Hence, the opinions that do not reflect reality. Just because a number of message board posters say the same thing over and over does not mean it implies the perception of the App Nation or make it even remotely true.

Just like the traveling App fan numbers. Just because App fans say 7000 travel to Elon doesn't make it true.

Skjellyfetti

June 5th, 2011, 11:41 AM

s
ASU - numerous arrests. What makes this instance different than any other school in the SoCon? Other schools have a zero tolerance policy.

Numerous arrests? We've had a few guys get arrested over the last 5 years or so... but nowhere close to numerous. xrolleyesx

Everyone has guys arrested occasionally. Wofford has had 5 or so guys arrested this offseason. I, in no way, think Wofford's program is the least bit dirty. Wofford and Appalachian also have the two highest APR's in the SoCon. Neither program has violated NCAA rules. And we're the only two SoCon programs to win a football conference championship at all recently.

Saint3333

June 5th, 2011, 12:00 PM

Numerous arrests (App fans will sweep that one under the rug), NCAA violations, academic violations, loss of scholarships, shady recruiting tactics, scandal, etc.

Not an accusation, but fact. Each of those instances does not apply to all four mentioned, but all four have at least one....

GSU - Since the invention of the APR, every year GSU has been presented with loss of scholarships
ASU - numerous arrests. What makes this instance different than any other school in the SoCon? Other schools have a zero tolerance policy.
YSU - the truth is still coming out
The terds - numerous NCAA infractions

Claiming that ASU is even in the same category is laughable. After each arrest (which happens at most schools) the players were punished. A four year starter at CB wasn't allowed to play in his last game ever (the national title game to boot).

ASU finished 2nd in the conference in the APR this past year. You're barking up the wrong tree. I also find it funny that Elon fans would like to question the character of ASU players.

Saint3333

June 5th, 2011, 12:04 PM

No, you stated that the SoCon was trending down. Personal opinion or not, no stats you can give that putting in teams that are tons better than VMI and ETSU isn't a trend up. You can argue Towso, as a trend down and losing two of your football schools (NE and Hofstra) is a trend down. Whether ODU or Ga St pan out to anything is left to be seen, so you can't even argue that that is a trend up or down.

Personal perception is just that. Otherwise, your argument is not fact base. And that's all I am saying.

No I stated they were trending differently in the first post and in the second related to this matter I said I'll give you that the SoCon has gone sideways. Did you go back and research playoff wins in the 1990's vs. 2000's those numbers are not personal perception those are facts. On a line graph the CAA's slope is higher.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 12:05 PM

Numerous arrests? We've had a few guys get arrested over the last 5 years or so... but nowhere close to numerous. xrolleyesx

Everyone has guys arrested occasionally. Wofford has had 5 or so guys arrested this offseason. I, in no way, think Wofford's program is the least bit dirty. Wofford and Appalachian also have the two highest APR's in the SoCon. Neither program has violated NCAA rules. And we're the only two SoCon programs to win a football conference championship at all recently.

Numerous = being many. You've had many players arrested from burglary to assault to steroids and DUI. The difference between arrests at App and many other schools in the SoCon is tolerance. El Cid, Furman, Wofford and Elon.....the players more than likely won't see another down. At App, they'll more than likely be on the field again - ala - Coco Hilary.

Your fans even see this differently. There was on App fan that justified the Hilary arrest on this board with a statement to the affect of: "Well, at least he didn't run or fight the cops." Wow.

Hmmm.....you really don't fit in the SoCon after all....just another thing you don't have in common with the private schools.

And Saint, you are in the same category. Your "perception" is just blinding you! Is it time for the quarterly pissing match yet? I'm getting anxious :)

whoanellie

June 5th, 2011, 12:16 PM

oh and when you make a comment like this one can you wonder why YOU make such an App out of yourself? PERCEPTION? yes you the one that portrays your logo image of AE commiting a flagrent personal foul of a blow to the head and grabbing the facemask thinking "this looks good" considering the source you just do not know squat No wonder the Sun Belt wants to have nothing to do with your back woods antics. The SoCon should not admit UNCC as a football member only but would make a nice home & home venue for the appsters. Let's get Davidson to add scholarship football before We add a start up that wants to be a stepping stone. jmho.
When elon came into the SoCon I had the perception that they were bringing down the SoCon's reputation. I was right.

Skjellyfetti

June 5th, 2011, 12:41 PM

Numerous = being many. You've had many players arrested from burglary to assault to steroids and DUI. The difference between arrests at App and many other schools in the SoCon is tolerance. El Cid, Furman, Wofford and Elon.....the players more than likely won't see another down. At App, they'll more than likely be on the field again - ala - Coco Hilary.

So, basically... your perception all comes down the the fact that CoCo wasn't kicked off the team for his DUI? All the other instances you mention... the players never saw the field again.

First offense DUI usually gets you a suspended license, alcohol classes, and community service and probation. CoCo met all his obligations and was reinstated to the team.

Do you have any other examples besides CoCo?

phoenixphanatic21

June 5th, 2011, 12:59 PM

xdeadhorsex

Back to the topic of the thread:
If Charlotte wants to join and stay in the conference for a while, then I'm all for it. Otherwise, I say no. I'd hate to see us used as a stepping stool like that.

As someone from Charlotte, I can attest to the fact that the city is already pretty split between UNC and Duke, but I've begun to notice more SoCon teams in the area (including fans from App, Elon, Furman and Western Carolina). There's a small SoCon influence now, but I think Charlotte joining would help grow the conference if they were to make the move.

WUTNDITWAA

June 5th, 2011, 01:01 PM

oh and when you make a comment like this one can you wonder why YOU make such an App out of yourself? PERCEPTION? yes you the one that portrays your logo image of AE commiting a flagrent personal foul of a blow to the head and grabbing the facemask thinking "this looks good" considering the source you just do not know squat No wonder the Sun Belt wants to have nothing to do with your back woods antics. The SoCon should not admit UNCC as a football member only but would make a nice home & home venue for the appsters. Let's get Davidson to add scholarship football before We add a start up that wants to be a stepping stone. jmho.

A fElon fan calling out AE for rough play. Now, I've seen it all.

GlassOnion

June 5th, 2011, 01:25 PM

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 01:34 PM

Charlotte would be detrimental to App and GSU for sure. Having to play at charlotte could cost App close to $1 million dollars, as we would lose a money game. Losing a single game like that is a big deal for the bottom line. I can see why the small privates wouldnt really care about that.

There we go with the small privates. Let alone the UTC and Western fans who seem to support this, as well as The Citadel.

In other words, App and GSU lose the ability to schedule an FBS or a cream puff. Boo freaking Hoo.

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 01:40 PM

No I stated they were trending differently in the first post and in the second related to this matter I said I'll give you that the SoCon has gone sideways. Did you go back and research playoff wins in the 1990's vs. 2000's those numbers are not personal perception those are facts. On a line graph the CAA's slope is higher.

Seriously, that's where you want to take this?

GSU playoff wins then vs now?
App playoff wins then vs now?
Furman wins then vs now?

There's the supposed "big 3" The trend on those overall is definitely down. Samford replaced an ETSU team that made the playoffs. ETSU made the playoffs one time. Samford RPI is am improvement over ETSU since that last playoff appearance.

Elon replaced VMI. Elon has made the playoffs 1 time. VMI never made it.

Is the problem the inclusion of teams that improve over the last two out. Or is the problem with the conference dropping the ball at a number of other schools? The SoCon's trend has nothing to do with schools admitted or not admitted.

So in other words. You don't want big schools, you don't want private schools, you don't want a school in your back yard, you don't want to increase the participants to near the CAA number. So, what is it exactly you guys want short of leaving so we can all stop listening to the same stuff?

GlassOnion

June 5th, 2011, 01:44 PM

There we go with the small privates. Let alone the UTC and Western fans who seem to support this, as well as The Citadel.

In other words, App and GSU lose the ability to schedule an FBS or a cream puff. Boo freaking Hoo.

Acting like a child when someone raises a legit argument. Really classy. All you all want to do is talk about arrests.

So, how is ole brandon ward? Did he ever get over his arrest for assault causing serious injury?

bigCasu

June 5th, 2011, 02:37 PM

oh and when you make a comment like this one can you wonder why YOU make such an App out of yourself? PERCEPTION? yes you the one that portrays your logo image of AE commiting a flagrent personal foul of a blow to the head and grabbing the facemask thinking "this looks good" considering the source you just do not know squat No wonder the Sun Belt wants to have nothing to do with your back woods antics. The SoCon should not admit UNCC as a football member only but would make a nice home & home venue for the appsters. Let's get Davidson to add scholarship football before We add a start up that wants to be a stepping stone. jmho.

There was no flag on that play, and there is nothing wrong with throwing a stiff arm to someone's face. If they cant handle it, tough.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 02:56 PM

So, basically... your perception all comes down the the fact that CoCo wasn't kicked off the team for his DUI? All the other instances you mention... the players never saw the field again.

First offense DUI usually gets you a suspended license, alcohol classes, and community service and probation. CoCo met all his obligations and was reinstated to the team.

Do you have any other examples besides CoCo?

Where I live one gets automatic jail time.

You saw what happened to his brother after that incident correct? He was removed from USC's roster. But at App, that wasn't the case. Time to move on because it's all too clear.

cmaxwellgsu

June 5th, 2011, 02:58 PM

oh and when you make a comment like this one can you wonder why YOU make such an App out of yourself? PERCEPTION? yes you the one that portrays your logo image of AE commiting a flagrent personal foul of a blow to the head and grabbing the facemask thinking "this looks good" considering the source you just do not know squat No wonder the Sun Belt wants to have nothing to do with your back woods antics. The SoCon should not admit UNCC as a football member only but would make a nice home & home venue for the appsters. Let's get Davidson to add scholarship football before We add a start up that wants to be a stepping stone. jmho.

That's a perfectly legal stiffarm to one of our guys. Some of our posters have a little video of the same player taking down Armanti pretty hard. Nothing illegal or dirty about either. That can't be said about Elon's thugs.

phoenixphanatic21

June 5th, 2011, 03:00 PM

There was no flag on that play, and there is nothing wrong with throwing a stiff arm to someone's face. If they cant handle it, tough.

I could say the same about the "late hits" on AE, but I think this thread has been jacked enough as is.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 03:01 PM

Acting like a child when someone raises a legit argument. Really classy. All you all want to do is talk about arrests.

So, how is ole brandon ward? Did he ever get over his arrest for assault causing serious injury?

Again, here's the difference, Unlike Coco, Ward didn't play one more down for Elon. Elon has one player arrested over the past decade.....App....well we'll go through the list of NUMEROUS again: burglary, assault, steroids, dui.....and wasn't there some counterfeiting scandal with a player too? Squeaky clean program you've got going on there!!!

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 03:02 PM

That's a perfectly legal stiffarm to one of our guys. Some of our posters have a little video of the same player taking down Armanti pretty hard. Nothing illegal or dirty about either. That can't be said about Elon's thugs.

Wow, a GSU fan calling Elon thugs.....now I have seen it all.....man oh man. How many scholarships did you lose this year?

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 03:10 PM

I think this thread has been jacked enough as is.

You're right, you're right. Sorry folks for fueling yet another pissing match. I'll shut up!!!

GlassOnion

June 5th, 2011, 03:22 PM

Again, here's the difference, Unlike Coco, Ward didn't play one more down for Elon. Elon has one player arrested over the past decade.....App....well we'll go through the list of NUMEROUS again: burglary, assault, steroids, dui.....and wasn't there some counterfeiting scandal with a player too? Squeaky clean program you've got going on there!!!

BS. The only reason Ward never played again was because he was a 5th year sr who got arrested with only three games to go. He wasnt thrown off the team, he was "suspended" just like Coco.

As for any other App that was arrested, name them. Travis Dowda was kicked off the team, Simpkins was not on the team when he was arrested, he had played out his eligability already, and therefore neither played another down.

PS. I loved Scott Riddle smacking the GSU defender in the facemask after he got sacked. Classy program you have there. I also loved the fight he instigated on the Ball field. Classy program you've got there. I guess Elon's discipline is the best.

bjtheflamesfan

June 5th, 2011, 03:30 PM

Alright you guys...I think Ive already asked once to get your fanbases in order, so I will ask again...tone it down. Again, I like good spirited debate among fans and among rivals but you guys (Im talking to you App State and Elon fans) need to take a chill pill sometimes. Now this is your last warning...cool it and keep it on topic...

Skjellyfetti

June 5th, 2011, 03:57 PM

Where I live one gets automatic jail time.

You saw what happened to his brother after that incident correct? He was removed from USC's roster. But at App, that wasn't the case. Time to move on because it's all too clear.

His brother was already on thin ice at South Carolina. CoCo had no prior incidents at App.

And, again. Do you have anything other than CoCo Hillary to base your claim that App has a bunch of thugs on their team and we don't take discipline problems seriously? Is that really all you got? xsmhx

ursus arctos horribilis

June 5th, 2011, 04:01 PM

His brother was already on thin ice at South Carolina. CoCo had no prior incidences at App.

And, again. Do you have anything other than CoCo Hillary to base your claim that App has a bunch of thugs on their team and we don't take discipline problems seriously? Is that really all you got? xsmhx

If Coco is the wrost that can be come up with for App then I gootta say that App is running pretty darn clean.

ElonPride

June 5th, 2011, 04:24 PM

His brother was already on thin ice at South Carolina. CoCo had no prior incidents at App.

And, again. Do you have anything other than CoCo Hillary to base your claim that App has a bunch of thugs on their team and we don't take discipline problems seriously? Is that really all you got? xsmhx

Ok, I can admit I was wrong. I thought there were two other instances in the last 5 years (Mike Flynn being one), but I was wrong here ky! My apologies on the error. I'll stick to the topic and shut up from here on out.

cmaxwellgsu

June 5th, 2011, 09:47 PM

gophoenix

June 5th, 2011, 09:52 PM

To weigh in on the topic, it would be bad to take UNCC for football only. What if it turns out they have a dismal team and fold after 5 years? That would be a lot of egg on the SoCon's face. Granted, that's worst case scenario but when you negotiate you don't give up too much for such an unknown.

Ok, that's fair, but no one seems to think the CAA has egg on it's face for Hofstra and NE folding, and they were rather recent additions to the conference.

Dinman31

June 5th, 2011, 10:11 PM

UNCC to the SoCon is a non issue. They will be voted down with little to no fanfare when the vote is held because there is next to no interest in bringing them into the league.

49RFootballNow

June 5th, 2011, 10:23 PM

To weigh in on the topic, it would be bad to take UNCC for football only. What if it turns out they have a dismal team and fold after 5 years? That would be a lot of egg on the SoCon's face. Granted, that's worst case scenario but when you negotiate you don't give up too much for such an unknown.

Fold after 5 years? After building a $45 million football stadium? Who in the history of college football has ever done that? That's not a worse case senario, that's a bit of fantasy. The SoCon (or any conference) risks little when taking any affiliate members when they already have a stable membership.

superman7515

June 5th, 2011, 10:59 PM

Ok, that's fair, but no one seems to think the CAA has egg on it's face for Hofstra and NE folding, and they were rather recent additions to the conference.

Not taking sides, but that's comparing apples and giraffes considering the CAA football conference was a new conference and Hofstra started playing football in 1937 and Northeastern in 1932. No comparing between a team folding after 70+ years and a team folding after 5.

cmaxwellgsu

June 5th, 2011, 11:40 PM

Ok, that's fair, but no one seems to think the CAA has egg on it's face for Hofstra and NE folding, and they were rather recent additions to the conference.

Those schools weren't hunting any sort of special treatment either. Apparently those two schools still play other sports in the CAA. I just don't see the SoCon in need of another football school that badly that it would take a team that only exists on paper currently. UNCC definitely has potential, but there are no known quantities yet.

Professor

June 6th, 2011, 12:16 AM

Fold after 5 years? After building a $45 million football stadium? Who in the history of college football has ever done that? That's not a worse case senario, that's a bit of fantasy. The SoCon (or any conference) risks little when taking any affiliate members when they already have a stable membership.

Didn't UNCC have trouble hitting the goals for PSL's set by the administration

SideLine Shooter

June 6th, 2011, 05:29 AM

Didn't UNCC have trouble hitting the goals for PSL's set by the administration

I don't think they have reached that goal yet by what the local media has reported. In my opinion, Charlotte may be the worst sports city in the US. That is even after you take all the Tar Hole fans out of the equation.

UCMoc

June 6th, 2011, 08:20 AM

In my opinion, Charlotte may be the worst sports city in the US.

Sir, the city of Atlanta would like to have a word with you.

SideLine Shooter

June 6th, 2011, 08:23 AM

Sir, the city of Atlanta would like to have a word with you.

I will agree with that.

49RFootballNow

June 6th, 2011, 10:05 AM

Didn't UNCC have trouble hitting the goals for PSL's set by the administration

We have sold 3400 of 5000 available FSL's, which range in price from $1000 to $2500.

Curious, how many on here's FCS schools have over 3400 season ticket holders?

How many FCS schools ask their fans to pay more that $1000 for rights to seats?

superman7515

June 6th, 2011, 10:07 AM

We have sold 3400 of 500 available FSL's, which range in price from $1000 to $2500.

Curious, how many on here's FCS schools have over 3400 season ticket holders?

How many FCS schools pay more that $1000 for rights to seats?

Delaware has over 10,000 season ticket holders. How do you sell 3,400 of 500 available? Isn't that a bit shady to do that to new customers?

Accelerati Incredibilus

June 6th, 2011, 10:09 AM

our arena holds 9100, we had 6070 a game last season (an abysmal one).

On the other hand, App holds 8300 and you put an amazing 1748 a game. Great Job!
(http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/8753820042742b01b8b6be967b4a3893/Awide_Mbkbattlists.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=8753820042742b01b8b6be967b4a3893)

The numbers are almost as different as our endowments:
Appalachian State: $56 million
what you refer to as a "Trade School": $105.6 million

and number of doctoral programs:
App State: 1
what you refer to as a "Trade School": 19

Everyone needs to stop with the academic sparring. This discussion isn't about playing in the Hi IQ Bowl.

49RFootballNow

June 6th, 2011, 10:10 AM

Delaware has over 10,000 season ticket holders. How do you sell 3,400 of 500 available? Isn't that a bit shady to do that to new customers?

That's 5000

And your season ticket holders pay what for seat rights? Season tickets?

Apphole

June 6th, 2011, 10:13 AM

We have sold 3400 of 5000 available FSL's, which range in price from $1000 to $2500.

Curious, how many on here's FCS schools have over 3400 season ticket holders?

How many FCS schools ask their fans to pay more that $1000 for rights to seats?

*raises hand*

If you ask me that's a horrible value. Most people would need some kind of assurance that the product was quality before dropping that kind of money. I guess that's why they can't seem to sell them all.

superman7515

June 6th, 2011, 10:20 AM

Tickets range from $85 for general admission to $190 (plus $500 minimum donation) for box seats.
2011 Tickets (http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FBDEStadium%20Season%20Stg%20Chart_prices.pdf)

49RFootballNow

June 6th, 2011, 10:51 AM

Tickets range from $85 for general admission to $190 (plus $500 minimum donation) for box seats.
2011 Tickets (http://www.bluehens.com/tickets/2011FBDEStadium%20Season%20Stg%20Chart_prices.pdf)

So no seat licenses? What about manditory annual commitment toward your athletics foundation for season ticket holders?

*raises hand*

If you ask me that's a horrible value. Most people would need some kind of assurance that the product was quality before dropping that kind of money. I guess that's why they can't seem to sell them all.

If you *raise your hand* it should be to answer the question, not make a semi-related statement. What's Apps figures for season ticket holders and prices?

superman7515

June 6th, 2011, 10:55 AM

The mandatory donation for UDAF depends on your seat. They range from $50-$500 per seat. For season parking the pass costs from $150-$300 and requires a donation from $100-$1,000 per pass.

gophoenix

June 6th, 2011, 12:11 PM

Not taking sides, but that's comparing apples and giraffes considering the CAA football conference was a new conference and Hofstra started playing football in 1937 and Northeastern in 1932. No comparing between a team folding after 70+ years and a team folding after 5.

The CAA was not a new league. If they were, they would have been on a two year hiatus from automatic bids. The CAA was a league that changed ownership and Hofstra and NE were all sports members when the change of ownership occurred. It doesn't matter how long they played, what matters is they were new members of the conference and folded not long after either were taken in.

Plus, if you really want to look at it. Northeastern folded after roughly a 12 year stint in the A-10/CAA. While Hofstra lasted 9. That's the exact same time frame as the UNCC detractors are saying now.

gophoenix

June 6th, 2011, 12:12 PM

How does the SoCon not need teams? App is halfway out the door. GSU can't be far behind. If they don't act and plan now, the conference will end up like the Southland in short order.

Whether there is interest or not specifically in UNCC is a different story. But the conference needs to start evaluating potentials elsehwere, whether it is SC State, Coastal, Kennesaw, Tenn Tech, North Alabama and so on.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 6th, 2011, 12:45 PM

Whether there is interest or not specifically in UNCC is a different story. But the conference needs to start evaluating potentials elsehwere, whether it is SC State, Coastal, Kennesaw, Tenn Tech, North Alabama and so on.

Of these schools and UNCC, which is by far the best choice for football?

Hint: it's a part of the UNC system.

I think this is the whole problem with the naysayers on here. They blast UNCC as somehow inadequate, but then bring up Coastal as the shining expansion candidate to which the SoCon should aspire. Coastal's not a terrible school, but they are small and have had issues in football and men's basketball the past few years. And does anyone truly think that an all-sports Kennesaw State is better than UNCC in football? Really? If so, those blasting UNCC as a "commuter school" need to study John Kerry in the art of being "against commuter schools before I was for them". xlolx

superman7515

June 6th, 2011, 01:04 PM

The CAA was not a new league. If they were, they would have been on a two year hiatus from automatic bids. The CAA was a league that changed ownership and Hofstra and NE were all sports members when the change of ownership occurred. It doesn't matter how long they played, what matters is they were new members of the conference and folded not long after either were taken in.

Plus, if you really want to look at it. Northeastern folded after roughly a 12 year stint in the A-10/CAA. While Hofstra lasted 9. That's the exact same time frame as the UNCC detractors are saying now.

CAA Football is not the same as the CAA. They're separately incorporated, file separate taxes with the IRS, separately chartered, etc. A-10 football disbanded because of membership defections, it did not change ownership.

**EDIT** Forgot to address this, but CAA Football met the continuity clause by having everyone from the A10 jump ship together. When Northeastern agreed to become the sixth member of the CAA that was playing football, the CAA had enough to become a new conference. When they invited Richmond for football, the A10 no longer had enough members, so by everyone jumping ship together they met continuity. Had Richmond not accepted and the CAA started off with just 6 members, they would have had to wait two years.

gophoenix

June 6th, 2011, 01:21 PM

CAA Football is not the same as the CAA. They're separately incorporated, file separate taxes with the IRS, separately chartered, etc. A-10 football disbanded because of membership defections, it did not change ownership.

CAA Football and the CAA, though may be with different tax IDs (I do not know) are run by the same people (that I do know); voted on by the same membership for rules and membership changes and are listed on the CAA website along with every other sport (not separately).

However you want to spin it. Hofstra and NE outed for football under the same premise that people say UNCC may or might. NE was at least a long term football school in the division. Hofstra was a D-III moveup that folded just over a decade of being full scholarship.

These situations are not identical to Charlotte. But there are not far off either.

henfan

June 6th, 2011, 02:39 PM

CAA Football and the CAA, though may be with different tax IDs (I do not know) are run by the same people (that I do know); voted on by the same membership for rules and membership changes and are listed on the CAA website along with every other sport (not separately).

However you want to spin it. Hofstra and NE outed for football under the same premise that people say UNCC may or might. NE was at least a long term football school in the division. Hofstra was a D-III moveup that folded just over a decade of being full scholarship.

These situations are not identical to Charlotte. But there are not far off either.

You're completely wrong on all accounts here.

Both NU and Hofstra were full members of the Colonial Athletic Association (CAA) PRIOR to the formation of CAA Football (CAA FB). Under the membership rules established by CAA FB, all CAA members were/are guaranteed membership in CAA FB until 2017. It's important to note that CAA FB has never added a non-CAA member since the league formed/assumed administration from the A-10. Only ODU and GSU have been added to CAA FB and both are CAA members. The next non-CAA member added to CAA FB will be the first ever. Unless UNCC joins the CAA, the chances of them landing a spot in CAA FB appear very slim.

The differences between CAA and CAA FB are not simply matters of semantics. The two are indeed separate entities with separate membership rules, separate articles of incorporation, etc. CAA FB CEO's control decisions for the league, not CAA administrators. UMaine, UNH, VU & UR have just as much control over CAA FB league matters as JMU, W&M, UD & ODU, for example.

SoCon48

June 6th, 2011, 05:00 PM

Niner National

June 6th, 2011, 06:41 PM

Or if you're in business.... You obviously know nothing about App. Undergraduate admissions selectivity is the only thing that matters if you want to know who's smarter and we have you by a mile. Now I know you're new to this whole thing, but can you talk about football or something? You've been involved in more member measuring than Ander Wiener
Average starting salary for a UNC Charlotte graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $44,300.00
Average starting salary for an App State graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $38,937.00
Source: http://www.nccollegefinder.org/school/show_all/

Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at Charlotte: $83,000
Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at App: Unknown, nobody has taken the time to collect this data apparently
Source: Princeton Review

Business degrees offered at Charlotte's business school:
Economics, Healthcare Administration, Finance, Information Systems/Information Technology, International Business, Investment Banking, Leadership/Management, Marketing, Media/Entertainment Sports Management, MS/MBA -- Dual Degree, Non-Profit Management/Public Administration, Real Estate, Supply Chain Management

Business degrees offered at App's business school:
Accounting, Economics, International Business

Average GMAT score for Charlotte: 560 - 620
Average GMAT score for App: 460 - 620

I can stop now or we can start comparing our doctorate, engineering, and biotech programs...oh wait...nevermind.

I fully expect to get these sorts of responses from the Carolina's, Duke's, and Wake Forest's, but from App? lol

Who gives a **** what your acceptance rate is? We go to college to get good jobs and make as much money as possible and Charlotte puts students in a better position to do that. We are in an urban area, not a small college town. We were created to provide higher education to the Charlotte region by being an accessible institution, hence the higher acceptance rate than Appalachian. Look at most large urban universities, they are the same.

citdog

June 6th, 2011, 06:50 PM

unc charlotte xlolx xlolx

Apphole

June 6th, 2011, 06:59 PM

As an undergraduate institution, acceptance standards are all that matter. You're masters and PhD advantages are notable and they exist mainly because your campus is 25 minutes from the biggest city in NC and ours is 2 hours away. If you're comparing UNDERGRADUATE INSTITUTIONS we win, you guys take the post-undergraduate category, now who is going to win the talent competition? And the bed-wear and swim suit portions could go either way!

WestCoastAggie

June 6th, 2011, 07:05 PM

So academic debate aside, will the SoCon CCEO's vote to grant Charlotte Football membership or will they have to look towards the Big South or MEAC?

49RFootballNow

June 6th, 2011, 07:06 PM

unc charlotte xlolx xlolx

At least its not a school that tried to keep girls OUT. Now where's the fun in that for straight men? xeyebrowx

Skjellyfetti

June 6th, 2011, 07:07 PM

So academic debate aside, will the SoCon CCEO's vote to grant Charlotte Football membership or will they have to look towards the Big South or MEAC?

I'll be shocked if the SoCon votes them in as a football-only member.

49RFootballNow

June 6th, 2011, 07:08 PM

I'll be shocked if the SoCon votes them in as a football-only member.

I would be too.

WestCoastAggie

June 6th, 2011, 07:19 PM

You get the feeling that if they were to gain admittance to the SoCon that it would push a lot of App fans directly over the edge and they would be very voacal in wanting to move on out?

I kinda get that feeling.xlolx

I think we will be seeing plenty of this over the coming weeks and months:
http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/Wile-E-Coyote460.jpg

Personally, I think the smack battles this season between App. State, Charlotte, Elon & CitDog will be epic.

CharlestonAppFan

June 7th, 2011, 03:26 PM

Average starting salary for a UNC Charlotte graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $44,300.00
Average starting salary for an App State graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $38,937.00
Source: http://www.nccollegefinder.org/school/show_all/

Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at Charlotte: $83,000
Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at App: Unknown, nobody has taken the time to collect this data apparently
Source: Princeton Review

Business degrees offered at Charlotte's business school:
Economics, Healthcare Administration, Finance, Information Systems/Information Technology, International Business, Investment Banking, Leadership/Management, Marketing, Media/Entertainment Sports Management, MS/MBA -- Dual Degree, Non-Profit Management/Public Administration, Real Estate, Supply Chain Management

Business degrees offered at App's business school:
Accounting, Economics, International Business

Average GMAT score for Charlotte: 560 - 620
Average GMAT score for App: 460 - 620

I can stop now or we can start comparing our doctorate, engineering, and biotech programs...oh wait...nevermind.

I fully expect to get these sorts of responses from the Carolina's, Duke's, and Wake Forest's, but from App? lol

Who gives a **** what your acceptance rate is? We go to college to get good jobs and make as much money as possible and Charlotte puts students in a better position to do that. We are in an urban area, not a small college town. We were created to provide higher education to the Charlotte region by being an accessible institution, hence the higher acceptance rate than Appalachian. Look at most large urban universities, they are the same.

Wow, so I guess my Business Management and Marketing degrees were fake? And the Computer Information Systems and Operations/Production Management Business degrees my friends received were fake too? Along with Finance, Banking and Insurance too? Jeez.... xchinscratchx

Hmmm......Dr. Peacock, you've got some 'splaining to do! xscanx xoopsx

Without checking any other thing you mentioned above Niner, I'd say you slighty skewed your information to what you wanted it say....whatcha think? Hmm?

walliver

June 7th, 2011, 04:34 PM

Taking UNCC as an affiliate member in 2013 only makes sense if the SoCon KNOWS that ASU is leaving in 2013. Otherwise, it makes no sense.

Unfortunately, for the SoCon, there are no good replacements available if ASU (and GSU) leave. There are no available public (or private) institutions that would be a good fit, unless there is a major shake-up in the CAA.

asumike83

June 7th, 2011, 04:46 PM

Average starting salary for a UNC Charlotte graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $44,300.00
Average starting salary for an App State graduate: Average Starting Salary of Graduates: $38,937.00
Source: http://www.nccollegefinder.org/school/show_all/

Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at Charlotte: $83,000
Average starting salary for an MBA graduate at App: Unknown, nobody has taken the time to collect this data apparently
Source: Princeton Review

Business degrees offered at Charlotte's business school:
Economics, Healthcare Administration, Finance, Information Systems/Information Technology, International Business, Investment Banking, Leadership/Management, Marketing, Media/Entertainment Sports Management, MS/MBA -- Dual Degree, Non-Profit Management/Public Administration, Real Estate, Supply Chain Management

Business degrees offered at App's business school:
Accounting, Economics, International Business

Average GMAT score for Charlotte: 560 - 620
Average GMAT score for App: 460 - 620

I can stop now or we can start comparing our doctorate, engineering, and biotech programs...oh wait...nevermind.

I fully expect to get these sorts of responses from the Carolina's, Duke's, and Wake Forest's, but from App? lol

Who gives a **** what your acceptance rate is? We go to college to get good jobs and make as much money as possible and Charlotte puts students in a better position to do that. We are in an urban area, not a small college town. We were created to provide higher education to the Charlotte region by being an accessible institution, hence the higher acceptance rate than Appalachian. Look at most large urban universities, they are the same.

I know this is a football thread and I'm not going to spend too much energy arguing about non-football aspects of ASU and UNCC, but as was already mentioned, you left out a LOT of majors offered at ASU's business school (Finance and Banking, Risk and Insurance, CIS, etc.) as well as other things like ACT scores, SAT scores and GPA of incoming freshmen (all higher at ASU) while pointing out the GMAT scores which favor UNCC. I'm really not a stickler for the off-topic stuff but if you're going to do it, at least present all the facts and make sure that what you say is actually correct.

As for the topic at hand, I hope UNCC finds their way on the ASU schedule one way or another so that we can take this argument to the football field. I'd be very surprised if they got a football-only invite, but I think scheduling a series would be great.

Coastal44

June 7th, 2011, 04:59 PM

What happened to the other posts?

Was wondering the same thing...

49RFootballNow

June 7th, 2011, 05:11 PM

Was wondering the same thing...

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?84771-SoCon-Vote-Smack-Edition

Crosis

June 7th, 2011, 05:48 PM

Niner National

June 7th, 2011, 05:50 PM

Wow, so I guess my Business Management and Marketing degrees were fake? And the Computer Information Systems and Operations/Production Management Business degrees my friends received were fake too? Along with Finance, Banking and Insurance too? Jeez.... xchinscratchx

Hmmm......Dr. Peacock, you've got some 'splaining to do! xscanx xoopsx

Without checking any other thing you mentioned above Niner, I'd say you slighty skewed your information to what you wanted it say....whatcha think? Hmm?

Take it up with Princeton Review. That is where I pulled the majors offered.

Princeton Review was only listing Masters level programs that were offered. Just because App offers an undergraduate business degree in Finance, Marketing, or any of the others you listed, it doesn't mean they offer a masters degree as well.

We can argue academics all day, but the truth remains that Charlotte is a Doctoral level research university and Appalachian is a Masters level institution.

Here is the best way to breakdown the caliber of students at each school:

App:
19% in top 10th of graduating class
57% in top quarter of graduating class
92% in top half of graduating class
68% of applicants admitted

Charlotte:
17% in top 10th of graduating class
49% in top quarter of graduating class
87% in top half of graduating class
71% of applicants admitted

Not really enough difference to argue about because neither school is going to be featured as a top 50 university nationally any time soon.

49RFootballNow

June 7th, 2011, 05:53 PM

I pray that the Southern Conference and the Colonial Athletic Association reject Charlotte and leave the Big South as its only choice. The Big South is currently a joke and needs all the help it can get. If Liberty can't leave this conference, the least I pray for is that it tries to improve itself.

So you want us to get screwed so we come help Liberty? Not really sure how Niners fans should take this kind of "support"? xeyebrowx

ninerID

June 7th, 2011, 06:30 PM

I'd take the Big South if there was a clause that we had no penalty if/when we leave. The Big South is essentially "independent with an automatic bid".

Right now all we have is furman in 2015. Scheduling 10-12 games a season isn't a cake walk. I would imagine in years 2015 and after we are looking for opponents who wouldn't have a steep penalty should we go FBS and cancel.

We'll be recruiting against better conferences, but it would more than make up for itself if there was the full intention to move up.

asumike83

June 7th, 2011, 07:11 PM

I honestly think the Big South would be a good fit, both for UNCC and the conference. I think the Big South would maybe be open to letting them join as football-only to get access to the Charlotte market where the SoCon already has a presence with ASU, Wofford, Furman, Elon and WCU all within a few hundred miles. That would allow UNCC to get into a conference for football without disrupting what they are trying to do on the hardwood. Plus, if the UNCC football program takes off like the fans expect it to then they would be able to compete for Big South titles in the relatively near future which earns an auto-bid to the playoffs. I do not mean this as a dig at UNCC or the Big South, but assuming that ASU, GSU and Wofford are all still SoCon members and maintain their programs at the current level, it would be much longer before they would be championship caliber in the Southern Conference. Just my $.02, but we'll see what happens.

ninerID

June 7th, 2011, 07:50 PM

I do not mean this as a dig at UNCC or the Big South, but assuming that ASU, GSU and Wofford are all still SoCon members and maintain their programs at the current level, it would be much longer before they would be championship caliber in the Southern Conference. Just my $.02, but we'll see what happens.
I don't think that is a dig at all.

We'll be a startup, it is an uphill road. I think a brand new stadium, FBS history with the coaching staff and the City of Charlotte will help us get up that road faster, but nothing can remove the hill.

Plain and simple, the Big South is easier to compete in. Coastal won 3 championships in their first 4 years as a team.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 7th, 2011, 10:42 PM

If UNCC joins the Big South, that conference will look a lot more like the current SoCon that folks here seem to think.

asumike83

June 7th, 2011, 11:03 PM

If UNCC joins the Big South, that conference will look a lot more like the current SoCon that folks here seem to think.

If UNCC gets off to a fast start it would definitely help, but come on. ASU, GSU and Wofford are better on an annual basis than any team in the Big South. Liberty and Coastal are consistent, but one school building a new program in the conference would not place them anywhere near the SoCon (at least not at first). The auto-bid went to a 6-5 team last year who got blown out at home by GSU in the regular season and really had no business in the field. Teams like Chattanooga, Furman and Elon who have been in the middle of the SoCon standings the last few years would have certainly been contending for playoff spots if they played in the Big South.

Blueandwhitefightfight

June 8th, 2011, 12:56 AM

Ran a quick scan of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_49ers

Here's what I think. Football wise, the SoCon is out of Charlotte's league. Same with the CAA. The Big South would be the best fit for them football wise.

However, it seems Charlotte has an ego even before ever playing a down. Looking at the rest of their athletic program, this is semi-reasonable as they have had some really great success with many other sports. About those other sports:

Baseball wise, they would be a great fit for the SoCon. The SoCon has some really solid baseball teams. They would be competitive from the beginning.

Golf wise, the SoCon has some pretty solid teams and nice facilities. They'd fit in well and could easily challenge for the top spot early on.

Basketball. The SoCon is nowhere near as strong as the A-10 in basketball. However, they would benefit from the rivalry they already have with Davidson. Plus, travel costs would be down from going all over the northeast to play a basketball game to a very close regional area. Still, SoCon < A-10 in basketball. BUT to be fair, Charlotte hasn't done anything in basketball since 1977 when they made the Final Four. Yes, they have made 10 appearances since then and seem to have a good program but they haven't made it past the 1st round since 2001. Davidson is a stronger basketball program at the moment with an Elite 8 appearance in '08. App. is no slouch in basketball. CofC is a solid program. UTC has a great b-ball team also. Wofford recently got pretty good. GSU just had one of the top recruiting classes the SoCon has ever had this year. The SoCon is not nearly as bad as a basketball conference as you think. UNCC went 10-20 last year in the A-10. The SoCon would not be as bad as a basketball move as some of their people are making it out to be.

Other factors. Geographically, great fit. Duh. Academically, well if there is one thing to be learned about the SoCon it is that there is no academic norm for the conference. We have everything from the public university, to the private university, to the military academy. Enrollment ranges from just a few thousand to 20,000. The fact that Charlotte has undergrad programs means it would fit academically in the SoCon. UNCC wants to go FBS in 10 or so years. Cool. I think App. will have already been gone and GSU probably as well by that time. Who knows what to expect with the potential BCS realignment and DI adjustments. That might not even be necessary in 10 years as the BCS and DI might be 2 separate leagues.

After thinking about the factors involved it would be in the best overall interest of all parties involved for Charlotte to be given a bid to join the SoCon as a FULL member. The SoCon would enrich their football aspirations and they would enrich the SoCon non-football sport leagues. Anything other than that would be an unfair move.

henfan

June 8th, 2011, 08:04 AM

I pray that the Southern Conference and the Colonial Athletic Association reject Charlotte and leave the Big South as its only choice.

The CAA has already honored your request, sir... allegedly.

My best guess is that the SoCon is poised to also say "no, thanks" for the very same reason- UNCC's lack of commitment to full conference membership.

The Big South might be UNCC's only FB conference option, which wouldn't be a bad one for them given their geography and desire to remain in the A-10 for Olympic sports.

I'm not sure how Big South FB membership squares with UNCC's stated desire to play FBS FB eventually, but they'll have to figure that one out in due time.

SideLine Shooter

June 8th, 2011, 08:20 AM

Enough!!! It's football. Let's tee the ball up and play some football. I like the old saying and I can't remember who said it but I still like it. "We'll play anybody, anywhere, at anytime." Play Ball!!!

Lehigh Football Nation

June 8th, 2011, 08:56 AM

what is your hard on about our conference? just some usual yankee meddling in Southern affairs that you scum have no business sticking your noses in?

I need to work "carpetbagger" into my sig. xlolx

AppAlum2003

June 8th, 2011, 09:15 AM

If UNCC joins the Big South, that conference will look a lot more like the current SoCon that folks here seem to think.

Oh, masterful literary scribe, please bless us with an explanation. I'm dying to see this.

49RFootballNow

June 8th, 2011, 09:30 AM

The SoCon would not be as bad as a basketball move as some of their people are making it out to be.

Overall not a bad analysis, except for this part. The SoCon is a 1 bid league. 6 years ago we moved from a multi-bid league to another multi-bid league and we hated it. We still hate it and it's wrecked our basketball recruiting. It's probably the biggest factor in costing our winningest coach his job too.

Yet, and I've had this discussion with the CAA guys already, no matter how much we're struggling in basketball; we still get our share of NCAA Tournament revenue from the 3 plus teams in the A10 making the Tournament each year. It's a consistent paycheck that along with our part of hosting the NCAA Tournament in Charlotte, helps pay our bills. No one pays any bills from FCS Playoff revenue. At least that's what I have read constantly on FCS boards these last 2 years.

I'm sure I don't have to explain why 3 or more shares of Tournament revenue is better than 1 share.

I'd gladly give the CAA or SoCon every single sport we have but 1.

Lehigh Football Nation

June 8th, 2011, 09:45 AM

Oh, masterful literary scribe, please bless us with an explanation. I'm dying to see this.

The SoCon has three large public schools: App State, Chattanooga, and Georgia Southern. The Big South would have two: UNCC and Stony Brook.

The Big South has one large private religious school (Liberty). The SoCon has a smaller one (Elon).

Both the Big South and SoCon have one historic public military school: The Citadel (SoCon) and VMI (Big South).

Both have tiny, private D-I schools that barely classify as D-I: Wofford (SoCon) and Presbyterian (Big South).

Finally, both have two somewhat larger private D-I schools that don't eclipse 5,000 students: Gardner-Webb (Big South), Chuck South (Big South), Furman (SoCon), and Samford (SoCon).

Sure, the Big South doesn't have the FCS history that the SoCon has - and you could make an awfully good case that Liberty has been screwed out of the playoffs not once, not twice, but three times. But over time, that can absoluely change. And with UNCC, the Big South all of a sudden - like I originally said - looks a lot more like the existing SoCon than folks here care to imagine. And if Coastal Carolina beefs up to about 10,000 - something they are well on their way to doing - it looks even more like the equivalent of the SoCon.

asumike83

June 8th, 2011, 09:47 AM

Overall not a bad analysis, except for this part. The SoCon is a 1 bid league. 6 years ago we moved from a multi-bid league to another multi-bid league and we hated it. We still hate it and it's wrecked our basketball recruiting. It's probably the biggest factor in costing our winningest coach his job too.

Yet, and I've had this discussion with the CAA guys already, no matter how much we're struggling in basketball; we still get our share of NCAA Tournament revenue from the 3 plus teams in the A10 making the Tournament each year. It's a consistent paycheck that along with our part of hosting the NCAA Tournament in Charlotte, helps pay our bills. No one pays any bills from FCS Playoff revenue. At least that's what I have read constantly on FCS boards these last 2 years.

I'm sure I don't have to explain why 3 or more shares of Tournament revenue is better than 1 share.

I'd gladly give the CAA or SoCon every single sport we have but 1.

I understand where you're coming from 100%, but don't you think UNCC would have a good shot to make the tournament much more often if they were in the SoCon? Conference affiliation is certainly a huge aspect when it comes to recruiting, but tournament appearances are as well. Not to say that a school would ever make a conference move for the sole reason of playing basketball in a weaker conference to make the tournament, but it would be a silver lining. I'd think it may be worth if for you guys overall because the SoCon would definitely get you where you want to go quicker in terms of football and let's be honest, in today's college athletics landscape, football is king and all other sports are way behind.

49RFootballNow

June 8th, 2011, 10:19 AM

I understand where you're coming from 100%, but don't you think UNCC would have a good shot to make the tournament much more often if they were in the SoCon? Conference affiliation is certainly a huge aspect when it comes to recruiting, but tournament appearances are as well.

No, I don't think we'd have a better chance of making the Dance from the SoCon. Coming off of several seasons of CUSA (when the conference was a regular top 6 conference in basketball) regular season and tournament wins, we thought we'd compete for the A10 title yearly. You'll be surprised how quickly recruiting drops off once you move to a precieved worse conference. We had our best shot so far to win the A10 our first year in it. Looks like we have a good chance to finally move up in the A10 now that we have a Rustbelt recruiting knowledgible coach. Any move now would set the program back to square 1 for even more years.

Not to say that a conference move for the sole reason of playing basketball in a weaker conference to make the tournament, but it would be a silver lining.

Playing in a weaker conference may make it easier to make the Dance, but it doesn't help you win games in the Tournament. If we can beat the Temples, Xaviers and Daytons on a regular basis that has more experience value for a team then beating the Davidsons and CofCharlestons. I don't mean to throw SoCon basketball under the bus, but clearly you learn more by playing the top of the A10 then the top of the SoCon. I think you get little real recruiting value from being a 1 and done in the Dance.

I'd think it may be worth if for you guys overall because the SoCon would definitely get you where you want to go quicker in terms of football and let's be honest, in today's college athletics landscape, football is king and all other sports are way behind.

BCS Football is King and maybe top level non-BCS FBS Football is too, but I don't think even the most partisan FCS lover would put the money/exposure value of FCS Football above Division I Men's Basketball. It's too big of a risk to risk our Men's Basketball program, which currently pays most of our athletics' bills not paid by student fees, to move them to another conference just to find 8 games a year for an FCS Football program which may just be passing through on the way to FBS.

asumike83

June 8th, 2011, 10:58 AM

BCS Football is King and maybe top level non-BCS FBS Football is too, but I don't think even the most partisan FCS lover would put the money/exposure value of FCS Football above Division I Men's Basketball. It's too big of a risk to risk our Men's Basketball program, which currently pays most of our athletics' bills not paid by student fees, to move them to another conference just to find 8 games a year for an FCS Football program which may just be passing through on the way to FBS.

I agree with you, I was just thinking more long-term in regards to football. I think the SoCon would put you on a faster track to the FBS (assuming revenue from attendance, merchandise, advertising, etc. is good) which in the long run could generate more revenue than hoops.

49RFootballNow

June 8th, 2011, 11:00 AM

Well no one in the SoCon or Big South has to worry about us in their conference now:

http://gmine.blogspot.com/2011/06/socon-big-south-turn-down-49ers.html

The Moody1

June 8th, 2011, 01:25 PM

Well no one in the SoCon or Big South has to worry about us in their conference now:

http://gmine.blogspot.com/2011/06/socon-big-south-turn-down-49ers.html

In what conference does Johnson C Smith play? Does CPCC play football? xlolx

DFW HOYA

June 8th, 2011, 01:45 PM

In what conference does Johnson C Smith play? Does CPCC play football? xlolx

JC Smith plays in the CIAA.

Blueandwhitefightfight

June 8th, 2011, 02:16 PM

No, I don't think we'd have a better chance of making the Dance from the SoCon. Coming off of several seasons of CUSA (when the conference was a regular top 6 conference in basketball) regular season and tournament wins, we thought we'd compete for the A10 title yearly. You'll be surprised how quickly recruiting drops off once you move to a precieved worse conference. We had our best shot so far to win the A10 our first year in it. Looks like we have a good chance to finally move up in the A10 now that we have a Rustbelt recruiting knowledgible coach. Any move now would set the program back to square 1 for even more years.

Playing in a weaker conference may make it easier to make the Dance, but it doesn't help you win games in the Tournament. If we can beat the Temples, Xaviers and Daytons on a regular basis that has more experience value for a team then beating the Davidsons and CofCharlestons. I don't mean to throw SoCon basketball under the bus, but clearly you learn more by playing the top of the A10 then the top of the SoCon. I think you get little real recruiting value from being a 1 and done in the Dance.

BCS Football is King and maybe top level non-BCS FBS Football is too, but I don't think even the most partisan FCS lover would put the money/exposure value of FCS Football above Division I Men's Basketball. It's too big of a risk to risk our Men's Basketball program, which currently pays most of our athletics' bills not paid by student fees, to move them to another conference just to find 8 games a year for an FCS Football program which may just be passing through on the way to FBS.

Good points. I guess I have to ask the question, why did you guys leave C-USA to begin with? You guys had everything to be successful (and were being successful) in C-USA except for a football team. Why the move to the A-10, then starting a football team, then jumping back into FBS?

49RFootballNow

June 8th, 2011, 02:58 PM

Good points. I guess I have to ask the question, why did you guys leave C-USA to begin with? You guys had everything to be successful (and were being successful) in C-USA except for a football team. Why the move to the A-10, then starting a football team, then jumping back into FBS?

CUSA: Well we lost most of the basketball schools to the Big East so we're going to take these WAC football schools and be a football conference now. As Charlotte and St. Louis have no football plans and everybody but Memphis suck at basketball now we'll give you some money and get you into the Atlantic 10.

Charlotte and St. Louis: Mighty considerate of you, seeing how CUSA basketball won't be good for a while.

A10: Money! YEAH!