Georgia Southern loses schollies due to academics

[nick9c]

Ga. Southern loses scholarships
Academic issues costs football program 5.4 scholarships

By MIKE KNOBLER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 03/01/06
Georgia Southern lost 5.4 football scholarships and almost half a baseball scholarship because of poor academic progress by those teams, the NCAA announced Wednesday.


No other Georgia university lost scholarships in the first cuts assessed based on the NCAA's academic progress rate. Georgia Tech on Tuesday confirmed it was not being penalized. The University of Georgia's information was released today, along with the rest of the NCAA schools.

[Cap'n Cat]

Lost just the players or they can no longer use the money for others?

[ButlerGSU]

More proof why Sewak is gone from Statesboro.

[gsuwinsudont]

More proof why Sewak is gone from Statesboro.


Exactly. College coaching is MORE then your winning percentage.

[colgate13]

Ouch.

Now define 'losing'. What's the impact?

[ButlerGSU]

I believe it's 4-5.

[ngineer]

I interpret that they cannot use those scholarships for the next recruiting cycle...?

[OL FU]

Based on the below I am not sure they lose anything this year

According to the data, about 7 percent of all teams would be subject to contemporaneous financial aid penalties beginning in 2005-06. About 51 percent of all Division I institutions would have at least one team subject to penalty. Most penalties are concentrated in football, baseball and men’s basketball. The penalty data is informational only, because the penalty phase will not be implemented until next year, after two years of APR data accumulate.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/legacysiteviewer?CONTENT_URL=http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_events/association_news/association_updates/2005/february/0228_apr.html

[Umass74]

I-AA schools were among the hardest hit. Chatty, FAMU, Stephen F. Austin and GSU amoung others

http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/academics_and_athletes/education_and_research/academic_reform/penalties_per_school.pdf

[blukeys]

Hampton and Gardner Webber lost schollies as well.

[VictorG]

Add Montana STATE............!

[Cocky]

We took a hit between the eyeballs.

[fuEMO]

I say kudos to the NCAA.

[CCU2003]

Each penalty is a scholarship that cannot be awarded for the following year. If a team has already issued all their schollys this year, then they are forced to carry them over to next year- In addition to any penalties they get next year -

so some of these teams might really be screwed come this time 2007.

[*****]

Based on the below I am not sure they lose anything this year

According to the data, about 7 percent of all teams would be subject to contemporaneous financial aid penalties beginning in 2005-06. About 51 percent of all Division I institutions would have at least one team subject to penalty. Most penalties are concentrated in football, baseball and men’s basketball. The penalty data is informational only, because the penalty phase will not be implemented until next year, after two years of APR data accumulate.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/legacysiteviewer?CONTENT_URL=http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_events/association_news/association_updates/2005/february/0228_apr.htmlThat's right OL FU, this "information simply warns institutions about the types of academic outcomes that will warrant penalties in subsequent years."

It looks like no school lost anything.

[CCU2003]

No, quite a few teams lost a lot! The penalties announced today impact this years signing class. SO, if a team has not assigned all of their available scholarships to recruits, they must impose them now. If they are all assigned to incoming freshman, then the school will impose them on next years signing class along with any penalties announced this time next year. This years signing class is the first group impacted, but many schools have already assigned the majority or their scholarships so the real impact will be felt next year, heightened by the fact that many of these schools will probably get more penalties next year. It’s tough to fix academic and transfer issues overnight.

It looks like the Chants are in good shape as far as the APR is concerned.....

[CCU2003]

Ralph, please follow the link....penalties go into effect immediately.


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2349787

[CCU2003]

Gardner-Webb is losing almost 6.....(5.91)

Murray State - 6.3

Nichols State - 6.3

Prairie View - 5.31

Stephen F Austin - 6.07

UT Chatt - 6.3


I think that's all the I-AA football penalties.....not including ones already mentioned in this thread.....

[DTSpider]

"You've got to bring in kids that not only want to make it to the NFL, but also want to graduate and get their degree," first-year Middle Tennessee coach Rick Stockstill told ESPN. "If a kid just wants to graduate and not make it to the NFL, I'm not interested. If he wants the NFL and not the degree, I'm not interested. You have to do a good job in evaluating. We're getting out of the Prop 48 business."

That just sounds awful. I understand what he meant to say, but it doesn't sound right.

[*****]

That's right OL FU, this "information simply warns institutions about the types of academic outcomes that will warrant penalties in subsequent years."...Hey OL FU, look at the year of that release... it was LAST year. Man, you had me going and completely confused!

[CCU2003]

Oops forgot Hampton with 3.....

[*****]

Ralph, please follow the link....penalties go into effect immediately.Yep, OL FU had me looking at the wrong release :o
Here's the official one:
http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=76498

[Umass74]

ESPN says that the loss of scholarships for FAMU will be in addition to previously announced penalties for loss of "institutional control"

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=2349787

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What a strange bunch of I-AA schools that are affected.

Central Connecticut State? Could this be why coach Tom Masella jumped to Fordham?
Prairie View A&M?
Tenn-Martin? (With another coach that jumped ship)
Murray State?
Georgia Southern?

What links all these schools together? I have a rough time seeing a pattern. One good mid-major, 4 I-AA playoff teams, midding OVC/SWAC teams?

Are all the affected I-AA schools state schools?

About the only one that isn't a surprise would be FAMU, only because they've admitted violations before in their vetting process.

[BusinessEagle]

No BCS football program was affected with scholarship losses. As a matter of fact, most of all programs affected were I-AA and I-AAA schools.

[*****]

http://i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=76499

Did I miss any

[catbob]

No BCS football program was affected with scholarship losses. As a matter of fact, most of all programs affected were I-AA and I-AAA schools.

I find that interesting as well. No big schools whatsoever were affected by this. Hmm....

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All of the I-AAs are state universities too (possible exceptions: Hampton and Gardner-Webb).

Just a hunch here - I wonder if the "victims" here are mostly state schools with small, swamped compliance departments? This smells to me like the FAMU problem spreading (though, not as severe as the problem that occured at FAMU).

For example, I'm no expert, but I would think (say) Penn State's compliance department is well-funded and well-staffed with lawyers and administrators.

[WMTribe90]

I was pretty shocked that no BCs program was hit too. I thought for sure some of the SEC and Big 12 schools would be hit. Off the top of my head I recall some pretty horrendous graduation rates in those conferences (i.e. Miss St., Oklahoma State, etc...).

BTW, Hampton is a private school.

[aceinthehole]

What a strange bunch of I-AA schools that are affected.

Central Connecticut State? Could this be why coach Tom Masella jumped to Fordham?
Prairie View A&M?
Tenn-Martin? (With another coach that jumped ship)
Murray State?
Georgia Southern?

What links all these schools together? I have a rough time seeing a pattern. One good mid-major, 4 I-AA playoff teams, midding OVC/SWAC teams?

Are all the affected I-AA schools state schools?

About the only one that isn't a surprise would be FAMU, only because they've admitted violations before in their vetting process.

I can assure you that is not why he left. Masella left to return to NY (he is former FDNY member and grew up on Staten Island) and because they have a shot at an auto-bid, something CCSU and the NEC couldn't offer him. That is just another reason the current auto-bid situation is hurting NEC teams and makes it more difficult to "step-up" their programs.

Now, I don't know much about this new metric by the NCAA, but I’ll assume transfers and other factors have some impact on the APR. Bottom line for me is how does a non-scholarship "mid-major" football program get penalized scholarships, when they never gave any to begin with? This is just more NCAA bureaucracy. It’s crazy!

On the bright side, I would also note that in this same report 3 CCSU teams were recognized for outstanding academic achievement - WLacrosse, WSoccer, and Softball. So, congrats to them for whatever that is worth.

[JohnStOnge]

I think the NCAA is full of it. I have no hope of seeing sanity returned to this area.

[CCU2003]

You don't see any BCS schools being penalized because they can afford to pay someone to baby sit all 20-30 problems they have on their teams. Small I-A's and I-AA's have maybe two or three academic/compliance folks who can only work with so many........I would be interested to find out the average team GPA's for I-A's compared to I-AA's. I have a sneaking suspicion that I-AA's have an overall higher GPA, but more athletes fall through the cracks. For instance, I wonder how many players at Ohio State are having their hands held to get a 1.8 or 1.9 in a BS General Studies degree compared to the actual student-athlete at a I-AA failing a legit degree program?

[I-AA Fan]

No BCS football program was affected with scholarship losses. As a matter of fact, most of all programs affected were I-AA and I-AAA schools.


It just goes to re-enforce something that has been true all along, that players dropping down are not dropping for grades. Although they usually can pick up a year. My daughter attends a very large college here in Columbus, Ohio ...that's right. I, on the other hand, along with my brothers attended a smaller DI college ...a college where my father was a dean/prof. The bottom line is this:

OSU has courses in everything from a PhD in molecular engineering to an associates in advanced underwater basket-weaving. The smaller colleges have reading, writing, and arithmetic. So, if you are good enough to play at OSU, you have at least 3-years worth of simple courses, that do apply to a degree. At a smaller I-AA school, you are in heavy coursework in your second year. There is no money for "bogus" academics. This is why the smaller schools took the largest number of casualties. My guess is that basketball schools will fair far worse.

[walliver]

Are these scholarships being taken away, scholarships that are actually awarded, or a reduction from the 63 allowed scholarships. In other words, is a school that last year awarded 60 scholarships is penalized 5 scholarships. how many do they get next year? 55 (60-5) or 58 (63-5)?

[Cocky]

This is sending the wrong message to schools anyway. This is telling school to give grade to athletes are you will be penalized. The school with 100% must be super easy schools if everyone passes.

[*****]

This is sending the wrong message to schools anyway. This is telling school to give grade to athletes are you will be penalized. The school with 100% must be super easy schools if everyone passes.The highest ranked is the Ivy League...
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=76513

[Retro]

The MAC conference was hit the hardest with 4 teams losing football scholarships..

[CCU2003]

Are these scholarships being taken away, scholarships that are actually awarded, or a reduction from the 63 allowed scholarships. In other words, is a school that last year awarded 60 scholarships is penalized 5 scholarships. how many do they get next year? 55 (60-5) or 58 (63-5)?


The penalties are taken from the NCAA max regardless of whether you award all 63. So if you only award 60 and you receive a 5 scholarship penalty then you only have to enforce 2.

[*****]

I think the NCAA is full of it. I have no hope of seeing sanity returned to this area.Besides the onliner smack on the Discussion board, why do you say this?

[Cocky]

The highest ranked is the Ivy League...
http://www.i-aa.org/article.asp?articleid=76513

I guess the athletes are taken care of?

[GannonFan]

Great article here that echoes a lot of things people on this board were saying when the APR's were first discussed - there was never a chance that the BCS schools were going to let something little like academic compliance get in the way of making millions of dollars. While nobel in purpose, the APR is just another failed attempt by the NCAA to enfore a little academic discipline in the world of college athletics. What's even more bad about this is the impression that now the real problem schools are those in the levels below IA, such as IAA, which was hit pretty well with the GSU's and FAMU's of the world not doing particularly well. While there are many, many IAA schools that didn't get affected at all, there is the perception out there from results like this that academics are not very strong when you go down in levels.

I'd like to say that I'm surprised, but I'm extremely cynical anyway and I'm not shocked that a Cincinnati or Memphis basketball program, neither of which has graduated a player in years, go by untouched by the APR's. Money can cure a lot of ills apparently.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2350199

[OL FU]

Hey OL FU, look at the year of that release... it was LAST year. Man, you had me going and completely confused!

Oops, there was a year listed on that releasexlolx :o

[EagleCrusade]

Yeah not one BCS school listed.

What about Cincy's Men's BBall?

This is rediculous.

[blukeys]

You don't see any BCS schools being penalized because they can afford to pay someone to baby sit all 20-30 problems they have on their teams. Small I-A's and I-AA's have maybe two or three academic/compliance folks who can only work with so many........I would be interested to find out the average team GPA's for I-A's compared to I-AA's. I have a sneaking suspicion that I-AA's have an overall higher GPA, but more athletes fall through the cracks. For instance, I wonder how many players at Ohio State are having their hands held to get a 1.8 or 1.9 in a BS General Studies degree compared to the actual student-athlete at a I-AA failing a legit degree program?


Good Points and the article Gannonfan links makes many of the same points.

Another Quote from the article puts some responsibility back on the lower I-A's

"It should be said that this issue cuts both ways. If some of the lesser schools were more realistic about their place in college athletics, they wouldn't be in this predicament.

I'd love to have someone show me the payoff for moving up to Division I-A football at Louisiana-Lafayette ($3.1 million in the red in 2003-04) and Louisiana-Monroe ($2 million in the red). They haven't even made it to the Sun Belt's sole postseason tie-in, the New Orleans Bowl.

If more of these schools knew their true place in the college sports hierarchy, the budget problem might not be so pronounced. And there might be more in the coffers to pay for academic support."

[catbob]

The NCAA sure doesn't care about I-AAs. They don't even enforce the 15,000 minimum fan support requirement for I-A.

[blukeys]

The NCAA sure doesn't care about I-AAs. They don't even enforce the 15,000 minimum fan support requirement for I-A.


Yes the only time a team paid a penalty for attendance was Temple and it was the Big east not the NCAA who lowered the boom.

[Retro]

Another Quote from the article puts some responsibility back on the lower I-A's

"It should be said that this issue cuts both ways. If some of the lesser schools were more realistic about their place in college athletics, they wouldn't be in this predicament.

I'd love to have someone show me the payoff for moving up to Division I-A football at Louisiana-Lafayette ($3.1 million in the red in 2003-04) and Louisiana-Monroe ($2 million in the red). They haven't even made it to the Sun Belt's sole postseason tie-in, the New Orleans Bowl.

If more of these schools knew their true place in the college sports hierarchy, the budget problem might not be so pronounced. And there might be more in the coffers to pay for academic support."

This is something we have been talking about here and elsewhere for years... Someone else finally sees the light?

[Gussie]

It seems an adjustment to the numbers saved numerous big schools form the real numbers. Something called " squad size adjustments " according to NCAA. What's up with that? Looks like that goes away sooner or later.

Posted on Thu, Mar. 02, 2006
USC, Clemson teams make NCAA grade

Statistical tweaks save some sports, but scholarship losses still a threat

By BOB GILLESPIESenior Writer

... A number of teams — including those at USC and Clemson — were spared penalties because of an NCAA “squad-size adjustment,” a statistical adjustment that will be phased out as more years’ results are compiled.
USC teams that fell short include football (911), men’s basketball (917), baseball (911) and men’s indoor (900) and outdoor track (892).
For Clemson, men’s basketball scored an 878, while baseball (924) fell just short of the cutoff. Football scored a 940, and the Tigers’ men’s golf team scored a perfect 1,000. ...

==Moderator Edited: Please do not post more than a few paragraphs of an article from another website and always include the link==