UMass to FBS (MAC)?

[soccerguy315]

Speaking on the condition of anonymity, a MAC spokesman would say only that the conference is “exploring” the possibility of adding the Minutemen for football.

UMass would play a “provisional” FBS schedule in 2011 and ’12, and make the full jump to FBS status in ’13.

Athletic director John McCutcheon, while saying “it would be premature” to announce that the Minutemen gridders are moving up, noted that, “We continue to evaluate where we are with our program.”

http://bostonherald.com/sports/columnists/view.bg?articleid=1299775&srvc=sports&position=2

[umassfan]

Best to get out of the FCS and CAA before its too late. MAC is a good option to start.

[Wildcat80]

I'm sure midweek MAC games in the November cold are just what Umass alums & students want......95 miles from campus......yeah go MAC....Akron needs company.

[umassfan]

I'm sure midweek MAC games in the November cold are just what Umass alums & students want......95 miles from campus......yeah go MAC....Akron needs company.

But if they are on tv, umass fans will support.

[AppMan]

Never have understood all the negativity that comes from some of you guys when a program looks to better itself. On the surface it appears to be envy based. With UNH and Maine headed to the NEC in the not so distant future the CAA will take on a very Southern slant and UMass will face some very long road trips and a lot of red ink. At least as an FBS program they will be involved with FBS revenues to offset some of that which isn't available in FCS. UMass has to do what is best for their program.

[WrenFGun]

Yes, IMO, if this happens then UNH and Maine have no chance but seek out other conference affiliation.

Is it possible the Patriot Members will accept some sort of hybrid conference with UNH and UMaine?

At this point, UNH and Maine need to make sure they're aligned with Albany, Stony Brook, Fordham, CCST, hell, even Bryant. There's no way they can afford to handle all the flights they'd need to stick in the CAA (potentially 4-5 flights per season), though they would probably get better recruits if UMass leaves.

I seriously wonder if some, but not all, of the Patriot wants to go Scholly if you'll see some combination of UNH and UMaine with Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Fordham, etc...I realize this isn't exactly the blueprint for the PL, but pretty desperate times for NE schools.

[Saint3333]

Could the CAA (with ODU, G. St., and UNCC) become an FBS conference by swapping out a couple teams for ASU and GSU inquiring minds want to know?

[Go...gate]

Stepping stone to the Big East, which is where they belong.

[bostonspider]

It will be interesting to see the reverberations of this potential move. Will Nova step up to the Big East plate? Will it cause UD, JMU and ODU to move more quickly to FBS status as well? Will Maine and UNH join Rhodey in the NEC? Is this the beginning of the end of CAA Football? I do wonder what the future holds for schools like UR and say W&M that really do not have the desire to move to FBS. Maybe a scholarship Patriot League, or something with Elon, Furman, and Wofford..

[Gil Dobie]

Stepping stone to the Big East, which is where they belong.

I could see that. IMO, UMass could dominate the MAC eventually and be very completitive right away.

[EmeryZach]

This is such a bad idea. The MAC is college football purgatory. The CAA is consistently ranked higher as a conference, FCS teams frequently beat MAC teams, the Tuesday night games are horrible, the attendance numbers are among the worst in the FBS, and it costs a lot more money.

This is a silly idea, and I hope in never happens.

[Ud1Hens]

I could see that. IMO, UMass could dominate the MAC eventually and be very completitive right away.

Not to sound like a CAA homer but any one of the CAA playoff teams could have been more than competitive in the MAC this year or any year for that matter.

[VBR_Productions]

Not to sound like a CAA homer but any one of the CAA playoff teams could have been more than competitive in the MAC this year or any year for that matter.

The CAA as a conference was ranked higher than the MAC, the Sun Belt and all other FCS conferences so it's hard to argue this. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbc10.htm

[Gil Dobie]

Not to sound like a CAA homer but any one of the CAA playoff teams could have been more than competitive in the MAC this year or any year for that matter.

Not just CAA teams, Liberty won a MAC game this year.

[danefan]

The most interesting thing to me is the timing they are talking about in that article-



UMass would play a “provisional” FBS schedule in 2011 and ’12, and make the full jump to FBS status in ’13.

[SumItUp]

Not just CAA teams, Liberty won a MAC game this year.

Gardner-Webb won a MAC game this year also.

[LeadBolt]

Never have understood all the negativity that comes from some of you guys when a program looks to better itself. On the surface it appears to be envy based. With UNH and Maine headed to the NEC in the not so distant future the CAA will take on a very Southern slant and UMass will face some very long road trips and a lot of red ink. At least as an FBS program they will be involved with FBS revenues to offset some of that which isn't available in FCS. UMass has to do what is best for their program.

Probably because we don't see this bettering UMass. Now if they were headed to the Big East, that would be different.

Going to the MAC brings lot more expense involved with 44+ additional scholarships (Title 9), additional travel expense, more coaches and less attendance playing during the week rather than on weekends, and they don't have a BCS shot.

[NHwildEcat]

This would be a bad move. The MAC is not at the level of the CAA in competitivness and the schedule just doesn't make sense. Football on Tueday and Wednesday nights is just not the same. It would be sad to see them leave the CAA. And if this does happen then we will more then likely see UNH & Maine responding in some way to make sure they are not completely left out in the cold. At this point...it might be worth it for UNH to look into moving now...why wait to be forced into something.

[EmeryZach]

Don't worry, this will never happen. There is no way that UMass can get all the needed parties to agree on the move. I honestly think that if we went to the MAC we would recruit worse players than now. At least in FCS you can tell recruits they have a chance to play for a National Championship every year, but what are you going to tell kids who you are recruiting for the MAC, "Hey guys, if you come to UMass you have a chance at playing for the MAC Championship in Detroit!!! Booyah!!".

This is a horrible idea, absolutely horrible. I'll stop donating money to the school if this happens.

[Gil Dobie]

The MAC has 13 schools, 7 Eastern Division, 6 Western. There would be some shuffling around, but it would balance the divisions out.

[Sam Adams]

Probably because we don't see this bettering UMass. Now if they were headed to the Big East, that would be different.

Going to the MAC brings lot more expense involved with 44+ additional scholarships (Title 9), additional travel expense, more coaches and less attendance playing during the week rather than on weekends, and they don't have a BCS shot.


UMass will be closer to joining the Big East after they move to the MAC than they are right now.

Perhaps you haven't been paying close attention, but there is something of a crisis in terms of New England FCS programs. In the past 18 months we have seen Hofstra and NU cease football and URI is downsizing to NEC. These changes have increased the costs for the other programs and they are indicative of a larger trend. Staying put in the CAA is becoming a losing proposition for Massachusetts, instead of staying put and doing nothing or giving up, the University of Massachusetts is being proactive and trying to grow the program. Massachusetts is committed to football and is not interested in downsizing, they are interested in upgrading the program. Its a good fit for UMASS as part of an overall plan to upgrade the program. I would not be surprised if we see other CAA teams taking a look at joining UMass, Temple and Buffalo in the MAC.

Hopefully this is the start of something great for UMASS. As opposed to URI, Hofstra and NU - UMass is stepping up and trying to do something positive for their football program. I love FCS/CAA football, but if its time to move on, then thats what the program has to do to move forward and survive.

[LeadBolt]

UMass will be closer to joining the Big East after they move to the MAC than they are right now.

Perhaps you haven't been paying close attention, but there is something of a crisis in terms of New England FCS programs. In the past 18 months we have seen Hofstra and NU cease football and URI is downsizing to NEC. These changes have increased the costs for the other programs and they are indicative of a larger trend. Staying put in the CAA is becoming a losing proposition for Massachusetts, instead of staying put and doing nothing or giving up, the University of Massachusetts is being proactive and trying to grow the program. Massachusetts is committed to football and is not interested in downsizing, they are interested in upgrading the program. Its a good fit for UMASS as part of an overall plan to upgrade the program. I would not be surprised if we see other CAA teams taking a look at joining UMass, Temple and Buffalo in the MAC.

Hopefully this is the start of something great for UMASS. As opposed to URI, Hofstra and NU - UMass is stepping up and trying to do something positive for their football program. I love FCS/CAA football, but if its time to move on, then thats what the program has to do to move forward and survive.

I have been paying attention, but not just to NE FCS. I wasn't saying you shouldn't do something, I was saying I don't think this is the thing to do. I hope it does bring you closer to the Big East, but personally don't believe it does. Good luck!

[NHwildEcat]

Does anyone know where I can take a look at the attendance figures for the MAC? In the article there is the mention of the current stadiu, essentially not being big enough...I doubt it based on what I see on TV with the other MAC schools...would just be interested to compare some numbers.

[danefan]

Does anyone know where I can take a look at the attendance figures for the MAC? In the article there is the mention of the current stadiu, essentially not being big enough...I doubt it based on what I see on TV with the other MAC schools...would just be interested to compare some numbers.

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/attendance/FBS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Hint - start at the bottom and go backwards. Most of the MAC teams are the bottom of the barrel in attendance.

[Mattymc727]

If this is true, what are the options for Umaine and UNH? It would seem like a huge downgrade for UNH to go from 7 straight playoff appearences in the CAA to NEC football with fewer scholarships.....I think UNH will try to stay in the CAA as long as possible and see if they can get other northern members to join

[aceinthehole]

At this point, UNH and Maine need to make sure they're aligned with Albany, Stony Brook, Fordham, CCST, hell, even Bryant. There's no way they can afford to handle all the flights they'd need to stick in the CAA (potentially 4-5 flights per season), though they would probably get better recruits if UMass leaves.

No offense, but some of us here have been saving this years ago! UNH and Maine will now be forced into a decision (to stay in the CAA or move) based on what other schools decided! Like it or not at least URI took their destity in their own hands and didn't let the forces in Richmond decide their fate.

If these schools were PROACTIVE, we might have a solid 8-team Northeastern based FCS conference that looks like this:

Albany
CCSU
Fordham
Maine
UMass
UNH
URI
SBU
(Monmouth, Holy Cross, RMU, Bryant, Delaware State, as other potential candidates)

So now the options left for UMass, UNH and Maine are:
1) CAA - the most competative and expensive, Southern-based FCS conference
2) NEC - a limited scholarship, small college, FCS conference
3) PL - Academically principled, grant-in-aid (limited-scholly?) private college FCS conference
4) MAC - Midwest-based, lowest ranked and lowest revenue FBS conference.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Never have understood all the negativity that comes from some of you guys when a program looks to better itself. On the surface it appears to be envy based. With UNH and Maine headed to the NEC in the not so distant future the CAA will take on a very Southern slant and UMass will face some very long road trips and a lot of red ink. At least as an FBS program they will be involved with FBS revenues to offset some of that which isn't available in FCS. UMass has to do what is best for their program.

I wonder what the negativity is going to be when Georgia State, South Alabama, App State, James Madison, Delaware, Jacksonville State, and about 3-5 others all bolt. It has already started with Texas State and UTSA. There are going to be more and the teams I just named are all 50/50 or better shot to leave FCS. If I was the NEC or Pioneer League I would be all for this stuff because those schools leaving open up more spots in the playoffs for them to come in and take them. I still don't see why folks downplay the fact that these teams play midweek games sometimes. I don't think people realize how much exposure Boise State and others have gotten playing midweek games. While I don't like doing it every week I think 1-2 games a year like that are a fun change of pace. Nobody complains when Dallas and Detroit play a midweek game in the NFL on Thanksgiving. It gets teams more exposure and plus we have to remember that everything you see going on is money driven.

Speaking of money moves look at TCU going to the Big East. I don't blame TCU for doing it. I think this move just plain is bad, especially for other sports, but I blame the system for forcing it and applaud TCU for finding a way to join the system so they aren't unfairly left out anymore.

[WrenFGun]

No offense, but some of us here have been saving this years ago! UNH and Maine will now be forced into a decision (to stay in the CAA or move) based on what other schools decided! Like it or not at least URI took their destity in their own hands and didn't let the forces in Richmond decide their fate.

If these schools were PROACTIVE, we might have a solid 8-team Northeastern based FCS conference that looks like this:

Albany
CCSU
Fordham
Maine
UMass
UNH
URI
SBU
(Monmouth, Holy Cross, RMU, Bryant, Delaware State, as other potential candidates)

So now the options left for UMass, UNH and Maine are:
1) CAA - the most competative and expensive, Southern-based FCS conference
2) NEC - a limited scholarship, small college, FCS conference
3) PL - Academically principled, grant-in-aid (limited-scholly?) private college FCS conference
4) MAC - Midwest-based, lowest ranked and lowest revenue FBS conference.

I mean, I've been saying this for quite awhile as well. It would be a tough bullet to swallow if UNH had to downsize to accomodate for NEC requirements, but IMO that's looking like the best fit currently, unless the Patriot League wants to work its way up or we can pull Stony Brook, Albany, Fordham, Maine, CCST, etc. into a full-scholly situation. The alternative is folding football all together, which is certainly not something I want to see happen. I just don't see how we could possibly stay in the CAA given the amount of flights we'd need unless some kind of sharing can be done among the schools (unlikely).

[NHwildEcat]

I mean, I've been saying this for quite awhile as well. It would be a tough bullet to swallow if UNH had to downsize to accomodate for NEC requirements, but IMO that's looking like the best fit currently, unless the Patriot League wants to work its way up or we can pull Stony Brook, Albany, Fordham, Maine, CCST, etc. into a full-scholly situation. The alternative is folding football all together, which is certainly not something I want to see happen. I just don't see how we could possibly stay in the CAA given the amount of flights we'd need unless some kind of sharing can be done among the schools (unlikely).

I agree...UNH needs to do something because the current situation will not work.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Off the tweets, Mike Barber:

Multiple sources around the Colonial Athletic Association tell me UMass is going to MAC as football member. Announcement later today. #CAA

Wow.

[Sam Adams]

I'm an old school Yankee Conference fan and really love CAA football. But if a program needs to upgrade to be successful and viable, then thats what has to happen. You can't really knock a program that is trying to improve itself. I think you will see other teams follow suit. JMU/UD/App. are all schools that I think will be moving up in the near future, because they will look around and realize that it makes no sense for them to downgrade or stay where they are. This has not been an easy decision for UMass and it certainly will not be an easy process to upgrade, but you have to give the University credit for making a pretty cool decision for their program.

[danefan]

I'm an old school Yankee Conference fan and really love CAA football. But if a program needs to upgrade to be successful and viable, then thats what has to happen. You can't really knock a program that is trying to improve itself. I think you will see other teams follow suit. JMU/UD/App. are all schools that I think will be moving up in the near future, because they will look around and realize that it makes no sense for them to downgrade or stay where they are. This has not been an easy decision for UMass and it certainly will not be an easy process to upgrade, but you have to give the University credit for making a pretty cool decision for their program.

As a fan of a school with an Admin that is apparently satisfied with stagnation I whole heartedly agree with you.

[EmeryZach]

Does anyone know where I can take a look at the attendance figures for the MAC? In the article there is the mention of the current stadiu, essentially not being big enough...I doubt it based on what I see on TV with the other MAC schools...would just be interested to compare some numbers.

NCAA requires FBS teams have a stadium that holds a minimum of 30,000 seats, that's what the article was saying in regards to the stadium not being big enough. There is a grandfather clause (Idaho Vandals), but that wouldn't apply to UMass because we would be new to FBS.

[NHwildEcat]

I'm an old school Yankee Conference fan and really love CAA football. But if a program needs to upgrade to be successful and viable, then thats what has to happen. You can't really knock a program that is trying to improve itself. I think you will see other teams follow suit. JMU/UD/App. are all schools that I think will be moving up in the near future, because they will look around and realize that it makes no sense for them to downgrade or stay where they are. This has not been an easy decision for UMass and it certainly will not be an easy process to upgrade, but you have to give the University credit for making a pretty cool decision for their program.

I cannot blame UMass...there is no doubt TV coverage will be up and it could very well be the next step to a Big East home. I'd like to see UMass play BC regularly because I would like to see you guys beat their heads in! And I don't doubt that in a few years UMass could win that conference. IMO it must be exciting as a fan and alum of the school to have a big change like this...I wish UMass the best of luck...we will continue to beat ya in hockey!

[NHwildEcat]

NCAA requires FBS teams have a stadium that holds a minimum of 30,000 seats, that's what the article was saying in regards to the stadium not being big enough. There is a grandfather clause (Idaho Vandals), but that wouldn't apply to UMass because we would be new to FBS.

Gotcha...that makes more sense. Stupid rule though...but that makes sense in context of the article.

[TypicalTribe]

I'm an old school Yankee Conference fan and really love CAA football. But if a program needs to upgrade to be successful and viable, then thats what has to happen. You can't really knock a program that is trying to improve itself. I think you will see other teams follow suit. JMU/UD/App. are all schools that I think will be moving up in the near future, because they will look around and realize that it makes no sense for them to downgrade or stay where they are. This has not been an easy decision for UMass and it certainly will not be an easy process to upgrade, but you have to give the University credit for making a pretty cool decision for their program.

I'm all for a program trying to improve itself, but I think a lot of the opinion on these boards is that going to the MAC doesn't really do that. Moving to one of the worst FBS conferences with no natural rivalries does not seem like a great recipe for success. If there's an understanding that the Big East will come calling if the program can establish itself and have early success, then I think it's a great move, but short of that it can hardly be applauded as a big step-up.

[bostonspider]

Well it is not at all likely that UMass would get a BCS invite right out of the gate. They need to get to FBS, show that they can both compete and draw fans, and then the Big East will come calling. I think the MAC with Buffalo and Temple is not a bad first step.

[TypicalTribe]

The Yankee/A-10/CAA had great geographic balance but once N'Eastern and Hofstra left, the writing was clearly on the wall. I've thought for a while it made the most sense for the northern schools to split off and join the NEC in a new conference since UNH and Maine really have no other choice at this point.

On the southern front, it reall wouldn't surprise me if 5-10 years from now, the surviving conference was an amalgam of the SoCon and CAA and maybe even the Big South:

W&M
UR
Towson
Liberty
Elon
Furman
Wofford
Chatty

Totally different landscape but definitely feasible.

[Big Al]

What all this movement of late is showing is that Div-I football simply is not sustainable in it's current form. FCS teams are moving to FBS and FBS teams are scrambling to BCS conferences all in order to get the money needed to keep their programs afloat.

The problem boils down to scholarships -- there are probably a half-dozen or so schools around the country that could easily give out 100+ FB scholarships a year (and would do so, if they could) and another couple dozen that can support the current level of 85. The remainder probably can't afford to give out even 63 schollys a year.

The solution, I think, is twofold:

1. Decrease all scholarships across D-I to 50 equivalencies. I can hear the gnashing of teeth right now but, honestly, with Title IX being what it is how else are were ever going to get the numbers to any sort of parity between men & women?
2. It's time for a D-I playoff. Not just FCS but across the entire landscape. Probably only 32 teams total, so not all conferences are guaranteed a spot at the table.

[Sam Adams]

I'm all for a program trying to improve itself, but I think a lot of the opinion on these boards is that going to the MAC doesn't really do that. Moving to one of the worst FBS conferences with no natural rivalries does not seem like a great recipe for success. If there's an understanding that the Big East will come calling if the program can establish itself and have early success, then I think it's a great move, but short of that it can hardly be applauded as a big step-up.

If you want to trash programs who are trying to do what they need to do in order to be successful - thats up to you. But the point is that the college football world is changing in New England and this opportunity presented itself - upgrading to the MAC seems like a better decision for Massachusetts than sticking its head in the sand, eliminating football or downsizing. You can disagree, but I'm guessing that the decision makers in Amherst have more expertise and information than you do regarding what is the best course for UMass Football.

[superman7515]

NCAA requires FBS teams have a stadium that holds a minimum of 30,000 seats, that's what the article was saying in regards to the stadium not being big enough. There is a grandfather clause (Idaho Vandals), but that wouldn't apply to UMass because we would be new to FBS.

Didn't they scrap that rule when they went to the average minimum attendance of 15k? That's why Villanova to the Big East was being rumored to be using PPL Park which does not have seating for 30k, nor can it be increased to that. They can increase seating for concerts close to 30k, but that's by putting metal folding chairs on the grass, clearly not feasible for any athletic competition.

[henfan]

NCAA requires FBS teams have a stadium that holds a minimum of 30,000 seats, that's what the article was saying in regards to the stadium not being big enough. There is a grandfather clause (Idaho Vandals), but that wouldn't apply to UMass because we would be new to FBS.

Stadium size has not been part of FBS requirements for many years now. The article is incorrect in that regard.

[FargoBison]

Yes, there is no firm attendance rule. All you need is a 15k average and even then I believe schools just get warnings if they can't make that number. The only thing a school needs is a 15k+ seat stadium and an invite from an FBS conference.

[aceinthehole]

If true, this is a GOOD move for UMass. More TV exposure and revenues. UMass alreday has a I-AA National Championship and it's clear no one really cares. This may not be the right move for UD or JMU, but it is perfectly OK for UMass!

With TCU to the Big East more moves are coming. If 'Nova doesn't make the move to BE football, Central Florida moves in that spot.

Then the Big East has to split and the hoops schools take Xavier and Dayton. What is left of the A-10?

I can see something looking like this: UMass, Temple, Charlotte, East Carolina, Memphis, and Marshall. That's not a bad start to somting in FB and hoops!

I think there will be some major MAC, A-10, Sun Belt, C-USA shuffiling out East and don't be suprised if JMU and App St. get involved.

[TypicalTribe]

If you want to trash programs who are trying to do what they need to do in order to be successful - thats up to you. But the point is that the college football world is changing in New England and this opportunity presented itself - upgrading to the MAC seems like a better decision for Massachusetts than sticking its head in the sand, eliminating football or downsizing. You can disagree, but I'm guessing that the decision makers in Amherst have more expertise and information than you do regarding what is the best course for UMass Football.

Wow, little defensive, are we? Go back and read my post again. Not "trashing" the program at all. I think UMass is being forced to make a move given the NU/Hostra/URI defections. I think it's a great move if they can eventually do what UConn did. However, if the MAC is the ultimate destination, it's hard to think it's a great decision, considering the conference has arguably been in decline in the last decade.

[Big Al]

NCAA requires FBS teams have a stadium that holds a minimum of 30,000 seats

Not true, although that used to be the case (iirc). The current requirement is 15,000 average attendance at least every other year.

For the record, 6 of the teams in the MAC have stadiums with listed capacities below 27,000.

[TypicalTribe]

What all this movement of late is showing is that Div-I football simply is not sustainable in it's current form. FCS teams are moving to FBS and FBS teams are scrambling to BCS conferences all in order to get the money needed to keep their programs afloat.

The problem boils down to scholarships -- there are probably a half-dozen or so schools around the country that could easily give out 100+ FB scholarships a year (and would do so, if they could) and another couple dozen that can support the current level of 85. The remainder probably can't afford to give out even 63 schollys a year.

The solution, I think, is twofold:

1. Decrease all scholarships across D-I to 50 equivalencies. I can hear the gnashing of teeth right now but, honestly, with Title IX being what it is how else are were ever going to get the numbers to any sort of parity between men & women?
2. It's time for a D-I playoff. Not just FCS but across the entire landscape. Probably only 32 teams total, so not all conferences are guaranteed a spot at the table.

What's ironic is that I-A and I-AA originally split mainly because of expenses and programs that didn't think they had the resources to compete at the highest level. Now, many of those school are determining that they can't continue to support football without the revenues generated at the FBS level.

Sadly, we've reached a point where the most important decision many of our "educational" institutions are making is what conference to play football in. we're looking at a conference arms race that hardly seems healthy for the core mission of most of these schools.

Will be interesting to see it play out in future years.

[Big Al]

If you want to trash programs who are trying to do what they need to do in order to be successful - thats up to you.

I really don't think there's a problem with teams wanting to move up. The question is can they afford the move or are they simply moving up now and hoping they can afford it later? In some respects, UMass has had this decision forced on them by the deteriorating landscape of football in New England so I don't wish them ill will but I do think it won't be a successful or positive move if the MAC ends up their final destination.

Looking at it from a meta-perspective, you can draw many parallels between D-1 college football and the current state of American household debt or even the Federal debt. People want nicer things and have been putting it on the credit card to get them. It's an understandable (though misguided) tactic but eventually you will have to pay the piper. The solution isn't to shuffle conferences and hope you can make the money later that you need now -- the real (but much harder) solution is to make large-scale, structural changes to how football is run across the D-1 landscape.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What's ironic is that I-A and I-AA originally split mainly because of expenses and programs that didn't think they had the resources to compete at the highest level. Now, many of those school are determining that they can't continue to support football without the revenues generated at the FBS level.

Forgive me, but that's a load of baloney. What they're looking at is the dollar signs in the BCS, Big Ten Network... and are greedily eying some part of the pie. It's NEVER been about CAN they support football. Of course they can. It's about the idiotic benchmark, set by John Silber at Boston University, of "is the athletic department making money".

If you think of an athletic department in terms of "making money", you elect to go FBS - even when, in reality, no MAC teams are making money but might, someday, decades into the future and if the Big East Splits and there are megaconferences and... and... and... If you think of athletics in the correct manner - that of something that costs some money but is something important to the fans, students, the kids getting a scholarship to attend and makes the university something special - then all this money-grubbing in FBS just seems ridiculous.

[bincitysioux]

Forgive me if this question has already been answered, but is UMass looking at moving all their sports to the MAC, or just football?

[FargoBison]

Forgive me if this question has already been answered, but is UMass looking at moving all their sports to the MAC, or just football?

UMass is staying in the A10, it will probably be a deal like Temple got where they play a few MAC schools in hoops each year.

[Sam Adams]

Some of you who are presuming that the MAC as presently constituted is the final destination seems a bit bizarre.

I see this as part of a much bigger process for Massachusetts and the MAC. The college football landscape is shifting. Programs have to decide how they wish to evolve or devolve as the case may be. For example, I doubt that the MAC will stop after it secures UMASS. There appears to be a strategy by the MAC to grow. I would presume that more FCS schools will likely be invited to the MAC and some or all of those schools will likely accept those invitations. Also I am not sure that other fans fully appreciate the new doors this could open for UMass football in terms of TV coverage, improved OOC revenue regional rivalry opponents like Syracuse, BC, ARMY, NAVY, uconn etc. - its a big deal and there are alot of highly positive opportunities for Massachusetts if they pull this off.

[EmeryZach]

OK. I guess I wasn't up to date about the stadium size requirements rule, or should I say no rule. My college education is outdated.

[bostonspider]

On the southern front, it reall wouldn't surprise me if 5-10 years from now, the surviving conference was an amalgam of the SoCon and CAA and maybe even the Big South:

W&M
UR
Towson
Liberty
Elon
Furman
Wofford
Chatty

Totally different landscape but definitely feasible.

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

[Redwyn]

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

I would assume that SBU was left out because the assumption was they'd be FBS at this point. The chance Davidson becomes a better option than us, even in the South Division, is nil

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

From your keyboard to God's ears. This is a terrific idea that will likely never happen, but I really, really love the concept.

[RabidRabbit]

Not just CAA teams, Liberty won a MAC game this year.

Garner Webb also won vs a MAC.

[henfan]

I don't think the MAC would necessarily be a horrible move for UMass, considering that they really will only have UNH as a close geographic rival in the CAA in a couple of years. Funding the extra 22 schollies is more the issue than anything. Travel is probably a wash with the majority of CAA FB teams a flight away. UMass has never played Temple in FB but that would have to somehow become their biggest rival, along with Buffalo, who UMass has played 9 times in the past.

UMaine FB is as good as a goner, either to the NEC, the Yankee Club Conference or elimination. IMO, the interesting choice lies with UNH.

[bostonspider]

I would assume that SBU was left out because the assumption was they'd be FBS at this point. The chance Davidson becomes a better option than us, even in the South Division, is nil No they were left out as they do not really fit the academic parameters of the PL, while the other "southern" schools do. All besides W&M are private, selective, mostly liberal arts schools. W&M is the one public that is most closely similar to the PL schools. Davidson was included as it is one of the best private schools in NC, and might be cajoled into that conference, or maybe Georgetown can be convinced that scholarship football is in their interests, or lastly Villanova turns down the Big East.

[NHwildEcat]

I don't think the MAC would necessarily be a horrible move for UMass, considering that they really will only have UNH as a close geographic rival in the CAA in a couple of years. Funding the extra 22 schollies is more the issue than anything. Travel is probably a wash with the majority of CAA FB teams a flight away. UMass has never played Temple in FB but that would have to somehow become their biggest rival, along with Buffalo, who UMass has played 9 times in the past.

UMaine FB is as good as a goner, either to the NEC, the Yankee Club Conference or elimination. IMO, the interesting choice lies with UNH.

I hope Maine football is not a goner...they have shown support for their team. Also, Maine does in addition to their varsity team, have a club team playing in the Yankee Conference.

[Waco Kid]

What's ironic is that I-A and I-AA originally split mainly because of expenses and programs that didn't think they had the resources to compete at the highest level. Now, many of those school are determining that they can't continue to support football without the revenues generated at the FBS level.

Sadly, we've reached a point where the most important decision many of our "educational" institutions are making is what conference to play football in. we're looking at a conference arms race that hardly seems healthy for the core mission of most of these schools.

Will be interesting to see it play out in future years.

I think Sam Adams is all over it as to why UMass is making this move.

While it is true that many programs felt they could not afford to stay in the highest level there were also many teams forced down to I-AA due to their conference affiliation. The MAC sued the NCAA for forcing them to I-AA and eventually won the case. I believe many teams are realizing they don't belong in FCS/I-AA and many of them never should have been forced into I-AA to begin with. Sometimes the administration of the school in the 1980's held schools back when the split occurred. This was the case at ASU. Very few of our fans back then wanted to be I-AA which is why there is such a strong push by many alumni to get back to the level we were at. We were beating teams like East Carolina, South Carolina, and Wake Forest just a few years after moving to Div 1, and then we were suddenly forced to a lower level.

In recent years a lot of D2 football teams and start up programs have entered FCS while many original members have moved up. The few "large" programs left in FCS feel like they are being forced out because all of the schools they have the most in common with are just about gone. UMass is a large university playing in a conference and division made up of increasingly smaller universities. This is a move they probably should have made many years ago, but they had enough traditional rivals left to satisfy them. Now it looks like they will be sitting up there in the Northeast all alone with the real possibility that the few large schools left in the CAA and FCS will be leaving soon. I think it is very easy to see why UMass and ASU among others are looking to move to FBS.

[Redwyn]

No they were left out as they do not really fit the academic parameters of the PL, while the other "southern" schools do. All besides W&M are private, selective, mostly liberal arts schools. W&M is the one public that is most closely similar to the PL schools. Davidson was included as it is one of the best private schools in NC, and might be cajoled into that conference, or maybe Georgetown can be convinced that scholarship football is in their interests, or lastly Villanova turns down the Big East.

While I'd be quick to agree that our demographic matchup (we're a large scale, grad student focused school while PL programs are mostly ugrad focused) with Lehigh and such don't exactly match - don't use the broad-based term "academic" when saying we don't fit the mold. SBU was ranked #78 in the WORLD last year as far as national universities go, beating Dartmouth, Georgetown, and most of the Big 10/12 in the process.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/top-200.html

Most of the PL (all I believe) didn't even make the top 200, which assessed research pedigree, grad quality, peer review, and citations (we actually were close to the top 20 in that due to our control of Cold Spring Harbor and BNL). Be careful with what you attribute the word "academic" with. We're a bit sensitive over here since we don't get half the publicity we deserve for what we boast.

That being said, I can understand why you would believe that SBU wouldn't fit the mold, and now seeing that JMU, ODU, and others weren't included I can agree.

[Waco Kid]

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

That would be a very good conference made up of like minded schools. To me that is the future of FCS football which is great for the schools that fit that mold. I'm not sure of Davidson would poney up the $$$ for scholarships though. Maybe put VMI in their place...

[UncleSam]

How about a nice expanded scholarship Patriot League for football

North
Holy Cross
Colgate
Fordham
Lafayette
Lehigh
Bucknell

South
William & Mary
Richmond
Furman
Wofford
Elon
Davidson

Nice collection of good football schools and academic "powerhouses".

Not much balance between the divisions, that South is about 5x stronger than the proposed North.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Mid Week Games, on TV, with ESPN money might be what the Alums want..

[WestCoastAggie]

Not much balance between the divisions, that South is about 5x stronger than the proposed North.

But those northern teams would be able to recruit players in the south easier. It would balance out as long as those northern schools put forth the effort to succeed.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Stepping stone to the Big East, which is where they belong.

Temple thought the same thing, now with TCU, Nova, and UCF in line any school that tries to use the MAC might find themselves standing on that stone for quite some time.

[danefan]

Mid Week Games, on TV, with ESPN money might be what the Alums want..

Yup - could be. FBS football (even in the MAC) has its benefits over FCS ball even in the CAA. Pluses and minuses of each, but for UMass the particular pros of the MAC and FBS must outweight those they'll lose from the CAA.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Not to sound like a CAA homer but any one of the CAA playoff teams could have been more than competitive in the MAC this year or any year for that matter.

Ill Take NIU against Any CAA team this year. UMass and the better CAA teams would fair well in the MAC (as Temple has) but keep in mind Temple outspends the entire conference, has been doing so for years and has yet to win the East (weaker) division. Buffalo a terrible team this season destroyed Rhode Island. Those same Rams beat four CAA teams and came ang close to scuttling a couple more.

CAA top to bottom is as good if not better than the MAC, I won't argue that and I wont dismiss CAA as merely a lowly FCS conference because I don't think there is anything lowly about the FCS (except TV contracts). But in any year take the top four or five AMC teams against the top four or five FCS teams and the MAC is better. More money, more scholarships, more depth.

[bostonspider]

I said "academic parameters" which I then expanded to "private, selective, mostly liberal arts school". In reality, maybe VMI would make a better 6th southern school than Davidson, as they are already scholarship.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Does anyone know where I can take a look at the attendance figures for the MAC? In the article there is the mention of the current stadiu, essentially not being big enough...I doubt it based on what I see on TV with the other MAC schools...would just be interested to compare some numbers.

MAC Teams average about 15K. If UMass packed the Patriots stadium with a "home" game against Uconn, BC, or Rutgers just once a year they would beat half the teams in the MAC on average attenance no matter how 'bad' the week to week games were.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Gotcha...that makes more sense. Stupid rule though...but that makes sense in context of the article.

Old rule, no longer in place. Just have to average over 15K in any two year span.

[TypicalTribe]

MAC Teams average about 15K. If UMass packed the Patriots stadium with a "home" game against Uconn, BC, or Rutgers just once a year they would beat half the teams in the MAC on average attenance no matter how 'bad' the week to week games were.

It would certainly be good to see the UConn/UMass Yankee conference rivalry come back UMass/BC would certainly be interesting.

[umassfan]

It would be easy to reach the 15K mark with 2 or 3 games at the Pats stadium vs any northeast rival. UMass would prob get 45K vs UConn or BC or even if by chance they ever get a big name to come.

[Bull_In_Exile]

It would certainly be good to see the UConn/UMass Yankee conference rivalry come back UMass/BC would certainly be interesting.

And as someone else mentioned Syracuse. They would have to give up a two, or three to one with some of these schools but thats why you budget an FCS team every year ;-).

[Bull_In_Exile]

My take on what the MAC shoul be doing...

http://www.ubbullrun.com/2010/11/30/1846333/mac-xpansion

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think the MAC would necessarily be a horrible move for UMass, considering that they really will only have UNH as a close geographic rival in the CAA in a couple of years. Funding the extra 22 schollies is more the issue than anything. Travel is probably a wash with the majority of CAA FB teams a flight away. UMass has never played Temple in FB but that would have to somehow become their biggest rival, along with Buffalo, who UMass has played 9 times in the past.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/495646/newMAC_medium.png

Good luck with that one. See all that real estate between Buffalo and Amherst? Only Temple is a bus ride, and what if they bolt to the Big East?

[Bull_In_Exile]

I did not, I have been corrected on that but I did have "Or JMU" but any school there is just a place holder for an east coast school with BBall tradition that wants to move up to FBS.

[Sam Adams]

The move would open up alot of opportunities for UMass in the future which aren't currently feasible in the foreseeable future if UMass stays in the CAA. Renewing regional rivalries is a big piece of this, as a FBS program UMass would be much more attractive for the regional FBS schools such as Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, Army, Navy, UConn etc. UMass / Uconn as an FBS rivalry would probably attract 50K to Gillette and easily Sell Out Rentschler.

[Bull_In_Exile]

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/495646/newMAC_medium.png

Good luck with that one. See all that real estate between Buffalo and Amherst? Only Temple is a bus ride, and what if they bolt to the Big East?

I used to live in Buffalo and work in Boston, its a bus ride... A six and a half hour bus ride but a bus ride none the less.

As for Temple going to the BE... It won't happen unless the BE splits. Sorry but Nova does not want Temple in there and nova has dibs. Even if nova does not move up in Football than UCF is going to be the BE's next choice.

[Gordon Shumway]

Oh well, having UNH relevent in the FCS world was fun while it lasted. It is just very disappointing to have your fate decided by other schools. And I don't blame UMass for this at all. Even if they had stayed in the CAA, it was just a matter of time until UNH & Maine had to wave the white flag. UMass leaving just hastens the inevitable.

[SumItUp]

If an FCS team is playing a provisional FBS schedule in the process of moving to FBS, but chooses to keep their scholarships at 63 during this period, could they be eligible for the FCS playoffs?

[Bull_In_Exile]

Oh well, having UNH relevent in the FCS world was fun while it lasted. It is just very disappointing to have your fate decided by other schools. And I don't blame UMass for this at all. Even if they had stayed in the CAA, it was just a matter of time until UNH & Maine had to wave the white flag. UMass leaving just hastens the inevitable.

Come with them ;) I really want the MAC to move East...

[TypicalTribe]

If an FCS team is playing a provisional FBS schedule in the process of moving to FBS, but chooses to keep their scholarships at 63 during this period, could they be eligible for the FCS playoffs?

Good question. Would the move mean that UMass will not play a CAA schedule next year?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The move would open up alot of opportunities for UMass in the future which aren't currently feasible in the foreseeable future if UMass stays in the CAA. Renewing regional rivalries is a big piece of this, as a FBS program UMass would be much more attractive for the regional FBS schools such as Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, Army, Navy, UConn etc. UMass / Uconn as an FBS rivalry would probably attract 50K to Gillette and easily Sell Out Rentschler.

The closest proxy we have for a MAC-based UMass is Temple.

Rutgers - last played Temple in 2004, couldn't wait to get out of that deal
Syracuse - last played Temple in 2004, ditto - and didn't even sniff Temple as OOC this year, and instead signed Colgate to an OOC deal
UConn - signed a 3-for-1 deal with Temple, played in the Linc this year
Army - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal
Navy - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal

Exactly how has OOC been a slam-dunk for Temple? They've got some interesting games, but calling this a moneymaker/sellout situation? No way.

[Gordon Shumway]

Come with them ;) I really want the MAC to move East...

You're joking, right? xlolx

[Bull_In_Exile]

The closest proxy we have for a MAC-based UMass is Temple.

Rutgers - last played Temple in 2004, couldn't wait to get out of that deal
Syracuse - last played Temple in 2004, ditto - and didn't even sniff Temple as OOC this year, and instead signed Colgate to an OOC deal
UConn - signed a 3-for-1 deal with Temple, played in the Linc this year
Army - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal
Navy - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal

Exactly how has OOC been a slam-dunk for Temple? They've got some interesting games, but calling this a moneymaker/sellout situation? No way.

===

Rugers is now in a 1:1 with Temple (or a 2:2 I forgot)
SU is in a 2:1 with Akron
UConn is in a 2:2 with Buffalo
Pitt is in a 1:1 with Buffalo
Army is in 1:1's with half the MAC everyone from Buffalo to Temple to EMU
UConn has a 1:1 with OU recently.

UMass could *easily* have a couple 1:1's with Big East Schools (at worst a 2:1) and 1:1's with Army. If you thorw in an FCS game against a traditional FCS rival (I'm looking at you UNH) and they have three OOC games a year set. The fourth is gravey..

[DFW HOYA]

If an FCS team is playing a provisional FBS schedule in the process of moving to FBS, but chooses to keep their scholarships at 63 during this period, could they be eligible for the FCS playoffs?

No. Provisional teams are not eligible.

[Bull_In_Exile]

You're joking, right? xlolx

I know, you guys are all too good for the MAC xrolleyesx

[Sam Adams]

The closest proxy we have for a MAC-based UMass is Temple.

Rutgers - last played Temple in 2004, couldn't wait to get out of that deal
Syracuse - last played Temple in 2004, ditto - and didn't even sniff Temple as OOC this year, and instead signed Colgate to an OOC deal
UConn - signed a 3-for-1 deal with Temple, played in the Linc this year
Army - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal
Navy - semi-regular OOC opponent since 2005, 2-for-1 deal

Exactly how has OOC been a slam-dunk for Temple? They've got some interesting games, but calling this a moneymaker/sellout situation? No way.

Well u may be correct, but we drew nearly 40K for UMass v. UNH. Also I don't think you fully appreciate the rivalry between Uconn and UMass or BC and UMass. - Trust me - those games would be HUGE if UMass upgraded. Also Syracuse and Rutgers would draw very well as would Army/Navy. Gillette Stadium would be the venue and that venue easily draws fans from Boston, Providence, Hartford, Springfield and NYC Areas.

[NHwildEcat]

I know, you guys are all too good for the MAC xrolleyesx

One thing the MAC has that UNH lacks...stadium.

I would love to see UNH on TV more, and the opportunity to play at the FBS level...

We need to do something, but our biggest problem is our facilities...UMass lucks out with Gillette Stadium in state...we don't have a good football stadiu, anywhere in state.

[aceinthehole]

Oh well, having UNH relevent in the FCS world was fun while it lasted. It is just very disappointing to have your fate decided by other schools. And I don't blame UMass for this at all. Even if they had stayed in the CAA, it was just a matter of time until UNH & Maine had to wave the white flag. UMass leaving just hastens the inevitable.

UNH had the chance to try and pull the the CAA-4 together with the SUNYs, CCSU, and others for a Northern-based conference, but instead they sat on their hands.

I like the UNH fans, but really your allegience to the Richmond-based administration and the failure to be proactive and do what's in the best interest of the CAA-4 block, rests on your shoulders. URI was willing, Maine would have went along, and maybe you'd have UMass as well. But we'll never know because UNH chose to do NOTHING and let others make the decisions for them.

[UNH Fanboi]

UNH had the chance to try and pull the the CAA-4 together with the SUNYs, CCSU, and others for a Northern-based conference, but instead they sat on their hands.

I like the UNH fans, but really your allegience to the Richmond-based administration and the failure to be proactive and do what's in the best interest of the CAA-4 block, rests on your shoulders. URI was willing, Maine would have went along, and maybe you'd have UMass as well. But we'll never know because UNH chose to do NOTHING and let others make the decisions for them.

I'm sure UNH would love to have done its part in forming a northern fully scholly conference, but it's not exactly easy to get 7-8 schools to do something at once. And it's not even clear that Albany, SB, CCSU, etc. have the institutional support to go full scholly in the long run. So getting them all to approve the scholarships in the short period of time necessary to pull off a huge move like this may have been impossible.

UNH might have a better chance of convincing the CAA to gradually bring in some northern schools because that requires much less coordination. Perhaps the CAA will realize that many of its southern schools may soon be leaving for greener pastures and that adding some northern schools without FBS aspirations could be a good move for its stability.

[Dane96]

Not speculation; FACT. I have the proposal in my possession...and others have seen it that are members on this board.

[Redwyn]

I'm sure UNH would love to have done its part in forming a northern fully scholly conference, but it's not exactly easy to get 7-8 schools to do something at once. And it's not even clear that Albany, SB, CCSU, etc. have the institutional support to go full scholly in the long run. So getting them all to approve the scholarships in the short period of time necessary to pull off a huge move like this may have been impossible.

SB is full scholly.....Has been for a couple years now

[danefan]

I'm sure UNH would love to have done its part in forming a northern fully scholly conference, but it's not exactly easy to get 7-8 schools to do something at once. And it's not even clear that Albany, SB, CCSU, etc. have the institutional support to go full scholly in the long run. So getting them all to approve the scholarships in the short period of time necessary to pull off a huge move like this may have been impossible.

UNH might have a better chance of convincing the CAA to gradually bring in some northern schools because that requires much less coordination. Perhaps the CAA will realize that many of its southern schools may soon be leaving for greener pastures and that adding some northern schools without FBS aspirations could be a good move for its stability.

UNH and Maine have no one except the America East to be angry at.

All of this could have easily been solved if the America East would have gotten on board with the proposal put forth at the 2003-4 (or maybe 5) AEast annual meeting.

[NHwildEcat]

UNH and Maine have no one except the America East to be angry at.

All of this could have easily been solved if the America East would have gotten on board with the proposal put forth at the 2003-4 (or maybe 5) AEast annual meeting.

What was the exact proposal from the annual meeting? Not everyone in the AEast has football...how woudl it have worked? I wasn't as knowledgeable back then so its all news to me...

[smcwildcat]

its official umass is gone ...wow typical lame little girl move by umass....ego is all they care about...im pissed bc they are leaving everyone else in NE w/ not much to choose from....have fun being an awful fbs team - only thing we're going to miss is beating you

[Sam Adams]

BTW: Looks like no announcement from UMass today. But it is confirmed that MAC officials are coming to visit Amherst in December.

http://gazettenet.com/node/294790

[danefan]

What was the exact proposal from the annual meeting? Not everyone in the AEast has football...how woudl it have worked? I wasn't as knowledgeable back then so its all news to me...

The proposal was to essentially put all the CAA North/Yankee teams under the umbrella of the America East conference. It would have worked the same way the CAA works now (non-football members) etc.. But the proposal I saw also included Northeastern and Hofstra as football members. I suspect (of course its speculation) that we would probably still have Northeastern and Hofstra (at least Hofstra) if we had America East football.

[NHwildEcat]

its official umass is gone ...wow typical lame little girl move by umass....ego is all they care about...im pissed bc they are leaving everyone else in NE w/ not much to choose from....have fun being an awful fbs team - only thing we're going to miss is beating you

You cannot blame them for jumping from the sinking ship that is the northern area of the CAA.

[Dane96]

Exactly. The America East Football Conference would have been:

Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Northeastern
UMASS (they were on board)
UNH
Hofstra

They were looking to add two more teams.

[jmufan]

its official umass is gone ...wow typical lame little girl move by umass....ego is all they care about...im pissed bc they are leaving everyone else in NE w/ not much to choose from....have fun being an awful fbs team - only thing we're going to miss is beating you

Where did you get that from, because UMASS reports say they are only exploring? Not saying they won't go, but I do think they are gone, but it's not official as some are saying unless there is a news release saying it is.

[danefan]

Exactly. The America East Football Conference would have been:

Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Northeastern
UMASS (they were on board)
UNH
Hofstra

They were looking to add two more teams.

And one of those other two teams would have likely been Central Ct. as a new full sport member of the AEast.

[aceinthehole]

UNH and Maine have no one except the America East to be angry at.

All of this could have easily been solved if the America East would have gotten on board with the proposal put forth at the 2003-4 (or maybe 5) AEast annual meeting.

I personally spoke with one AD from a non-football AE school on this topic, and he specifically said that UNH wanted no part of any AE football proposal.

[danefan]

I personally spoke with one AD from a non-football AE school on this topic, and he specifically said that UNH wanted no part of any AE football proposal.

100% accurate.

[KAUMASS]

This move is in UMass's best interest. Love FCS football and my blood is still there on the field at McGuirk. UMass has no other option at the moment. Waiting for the BE invite will not come status quo. If UNH and Maine lowered their level of football and Nova went to the big east, what would UMass do? UMass would be on an island and screwed. We don't have to spend millions upgrading our stadium, we need to maintain at least 77 schollies to be FBS. (90% of 85 allotment) We are easing our way into FBS without taking the full financial plunge. Travel costs were going to increase with the CAA anyway. Competition will be slightly ahead of the CAA, we can be competitive right off the bat. This is a win win all around. We can get some huge paydays for a game with the BE/ACC/BIG 10 type games and play 12 games a year. Schudule a regional FCS, play bigger games at Gillete. Use conference money from tv packages and toilet bowl games for additional travel costs, which we would have incurred anyway.

The MAC won't be done with expansion, I hope some other current UMass rival teams come over as well. (UNH-please buy Hofstras stadium-what are they using it for now anyhow?---- and ship it up to Durham and come to the MAC with us!!)

[Bull_In_Exile]

This move is in UMass's best interest.

Serious question for the UMass Fans: What other two schools would have to be in the MAC for UMass to bring all sports in? Assuming they are good enough for Temple as well.

It's becoming pretty clear the the Big East is stopping after TCU and Nova (or UCF) or will split into an FCS an FBS conferneces. In any case unless your name sounds like Bloater Shame chances are that Big East Invite is not coming any time soon.

[Dane96]

This move is in UMass's best interest. Love FCS football and my blood is still there on the field at McGuirk. UMass has no other option at the moment. Waiting for the BE invite will not come status quo. If UNH and Maine lowered their level of football and Nova went to the big east, what would UMass do? UMass would be on an island and screwed. We don't have to spend millions upgrading our stadium, we need to maintain at least 77 schollies to be FBS. (90% of 85 allotment) We are easing our way into FBS without taking the full financial plunge. Travel costs were going to increase with the CAA anyway. Competition will be slightly ahead of the CAA, we can be competitive right off the bat. This is a win win all around. We can get some huge paydays for a game with the BE/ACC/BIG 10 type games and play 12 games a year. Schudule a regional FCS, play bigger games at Gillete. Use conference money from tv packages and toilet bowl games for additional travel costs, which we would have incurred anyway.

The MAC won't be done with expansion, I hope some other current UMass rival teams come over as well. (UNH-please buy Hofstras stadium-what are they using it for now anyhow?---- and ship it up to Durham and come to the MAC with us!!)

They have this little thing called Lacrosse down at Hofstra.

[KAUMASS]

UMass needs to hire Coach McDonnell from UNH to lead us into the MAC...? Would he want out of UNH if they downgraded?

[Sam Adams]

Where did you get that from, because UMASS reports say they are only exploring? Not saying they won't go, but I do think they are gone, but it's not official as some are saying unless there is a news release saying it is.

Pretty sure this is a done deal. MAC officials are coming to Amherst asap according to the University.

[KAUMASS]

They have this little thing called Lacrosse down at Hofstra.

Thanks, that would explain it...

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Exactly. The America East Football Conference would have been:

Albany
Stony Brook
URI
Northeastern
UMASS (they were on board)
UNH
Hofstra

They were looking to add two more teams.

Was Maine not part of this, or did you just forget to list them?

[Dane96]

Forgot to list Maine.

[danefan]

Was Maine not part of this, or did you just forget to list them?

Maine was definitely a part of it according to my recollection of the banner that was posted during the Albany football alumni golf outing the summer it was proposed. All the AEast football schools, plus UMass, URI, NU and Hofstra along with talk of adding CCSU.

[ur2k]

Pretty sure this is a done deal. MAC officials are coming to Amherst asap according to the University.

Is this a proposed football-only move?

[NHwildEcat]

UMass needs to hire Coach McDonnell from UNH to lead us into the MAC...? Would he want out of UNH if they downgraded?

I don't see any reason for us to downgrade. Longest playoff streak in the Nation. A solution will be coming and Coach will be a part of it...he has to be. Second highest state employee...he is important to this program and school.

[NHwildEcat]

Is this a proposed football-only move?

For now...MAC will certainly want UMass as a full participant in the future. Will it happen? Hard to tell right now...

[aceinthehole]

Maine was definitely a part of it according to my recollection of the banner that was posted during the Albany football alumni golf outing the summer it was proposed. All the AEast football schools, plus UMass, URI, NU and Hofstra along with talk of adding CCSU.

Too bad. That would have been a great 9-team conference (if CCSU did get the invite and come on board).

I do think AE football concept was permanently doomed as soon as NU left for the CAA. Whatever leverage and advantage the AE might of had, disappeared with that move. The strong reluctance of schools like UNH and UMass to join up with "upstart" football programs like UA and SBU also proved to kill this idea.

I'd also point out that the AE as a whole seemed incapable of pulling this off. The AE at one point could have swallowed the CAA when the were vulnerable (about 1991?), yet a few years later UD, Hofstra, Towson, and Drexel leave the AE for the CAA. The AE was given a gift in the 3 SUNY upstarts, yet the still managed to lose NU.

I've also said this before, I like the AE profile - "mid-sized" Northeastern public universities - but the conference leadership is horrible. The NEC has come out smelling like a rose in the last decade despite losing UMBC and adding 3 small "upstarts" over the years (Quinnipiac, Sacred Heart, and Bryant).

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

UMass needs to hire Coach McDonnell from UNH to lead us into the MAC...? Would he want out of UNH if they downgraded?

Maroon makes Coach McDonnell break out in a rash....it will never happen.

[jmufan]

UMASS should think of their little brother and try and get UNH to go with them. Would hate to see UNH be relegated to the NEC or worse.

[glsjunior]

I think what we really need is some contraction. The Sunbelt and the MAC should become IAA programs. The Pioneer and Patriot leagues should drop down to Div II, probably the MEAC and the SWAC too.

[henfan]

The Pioneer and Patriot leagues should drop down to Div II, probably the MEAC and the SWAC too.

You do realize that these leagues would have to reclassify all sports in order to move to D-II for FB?xeyebrowx

That's not going to happen for so many reasons.

[henfan]

I do think AE football concept was permanently doomed as soon as NU left for the CAA. Whatever leverage and advantage the AE might of had, disappeared with that move.

Actually, the AEC surrendered its last best chance to sponsor a FB league when they allowed Hartford, UVm & BU to control the decision not to take over the CAA in Sept. 2000. That move would have allowed the AEC to take over the A-10 FB League.

Despite the subsequent discussions, the CAA was never going to allow the AEC to gain enough support for its own FB league; hence, the NU invite.

[glsjunior]

You do realize that these leagues would have to reclassify all sports in order to move to D-II for FB?xeyebrowx

That's not going to happen for so many reasons.

Not saying that it would. But I think that something has to happen or college football is going to be ridiculous. There will basically be the BCS and then a watered down FBS, which will call into question the purpose of the FCS. My solution (other than a playoff) would be an 8 conf BCS consisting of

ACC
SEC
Big 10
Big 12
Big East
WAC
PAC 10
Mountain West

Everyone else that was FBS meaning Conf USA, Sunbelt and MAC become part of a new kick *** FCS. Give the TV contract to Fox Regional and National, Comcast, and VS. and keep it moving.

[aceinthehole]

You're off target. The AEC surrendered its last best chance to sponsor a FB league when they allowed Hartford, UVm & BU to control the decision not to take over the CAA in Sept. 2000. That move would have allowed the AEC to take over the A-10 FB League.

Despite the subsequent discussions, the CAA was never going to allow the AEC to gain enough support for its own FB league; hence, the NU invite.

I agree and pointed out the failure of the AE to absorb the CAA started the decline of the league. The NU move was simply "checkmate" regarding AE football.

[superman7515]

The WAC? Really? You do realize that conference is two seconds from death. Heck, the MAC is better than what the WAC is left with.

[glsjunior]

The WAC? Really? You do realize that conference is two seconds from death. Heck, the MAC is better than what the WAC is left with.

IDK. I have more faith that the WAC can be a consistently decent conference in the future than the MAC can.

[henfan]

I agree and pointed out the failure of the AE to absorb the CAA started the decline of the league. The NU move was simply "checkmate" regarding AE football.

Got ya. I'm in agreement.

[henfan]

Not saying that it would. But I think that something has to happen or college football is going to be ridiculous.

"Going to be ridiculous"?! Ridiculousness has been a part of the equation time immemorial.

[superman7515]

On what basis? They just invited a team that has never played a game to join their conference so they didn't die off completely, then turned around and they're probably going to lose another team if not more now that TCU is leaving the MWC. Their lineup for the future is Idaho, La Tech, New Mexico St, San Jose, Utah St, UTSA, Texas State, and Denver (non-football). La Tech has openly wanted out of the league, Utah State is probably going to get invited back to the MWC to replace TCU after turning them down earlier. What about that league screams confidence?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think what we really need is some contraction. The Sunbelt and the MAC should become IAA programs. The Pioneer and Patriot leagues should drop down to Div II, probably the MEAC and the SWAC too.


IDK. I have more faith that the WAC can be a consistently decent conference in the future than the MAC can.

You need your head examined. The PL champ just took down the Missouri Valley champ in football, so they're not going anywhere, and the Pioneer League - news flash - is a football-only construct. They are not going D-II anytime soon.

And the WAC? Really? The team that's a Utah State-to-the-MWC away from causing the death of the conference?

[Bull_In_Exile]

Not saying that it would. But I think that something has to happen or college football is going to be ridiculous. There will basically be the BCS and then a watered down FBS, which will call into question the purpose of the FCS. My solution (other than a playoff) would be an 8 conf BCS consisting of

ACC
SEC
Big 10
Big 12
Big East
WAC
PAC 10
Mountain West

Everyone else that was FBS meaning Conf USA, Sunbelt and MAC become part of a new kick *** FCS. Give the TV contract to Fox Regional and National, Comcast, and VS. and keep it moving.

You do realize the legal $#17 storm that would kick up right? The MAC alone stopped themselves from being relegated and the BCS is already a nice big plump target. Throw the MAC/WAC (whats left of it)/SBC/ and CUSA down to the FCS and the lawyers would have a field day..

[Bull_In_Exile]

Based one what? The WAC has been carried by one school, and that school is leaving. The other respectable schools (fresno, nevada) are also bolting...

[glsjunior]

On what basis? They just invited a team that has never played a game to join their conference so they didn't die off completely, then turned around and they're probably going to lose another team if not more now that TCU is leaving the MWC. Their lineup for the future is Idaho, La Tech, New Mexico St, San Jose, Utah St, UTSA, Texas State, and Denver (non-football). La Tech has openly wanted out of the league, Utah State is probably going to get invited back to the MWC to replace TCU after turning them down earlier. What about that league screams confidence?

Because they are located in the part of the country that is growing in population (thus talent) whereas the MAC is located in a dying part of the country. At least the WAC has somewhat of a history even though their lineup is different for the most part. The MAC has never been worth anything and since I wanted 8 teams in my scenerio the WAC gets grandfathered in. So there :)

[glsjunior]

You do realize the legal $#17 storm that would kick up right? The MAC alone stopped themselves from being relegated and the BCS is already a nice big plump target. Throw the MAC/WAC (whats left of it)/SBC/ and CUSA down to the FCS and the lawyers would have a field day..

No doubt, though you could probably throw down the MAC to FCS based on attendance provisions. In any event, the point of my scenerio is to destroy the fiction that there is no difference between BCS schools and FBS schools. By doing so you help college football be more equitable and help schools with their bottom lines. While FCS football in its current incarnation may not be attractive to networks, it would be if you made it a true alternative to BCS football. Let the big money schools have their own little computer round robin to determine their champion while the rest of college football plays for something real. The new FCS would be so talented and competitive that it couldn't be ignored.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The new FCS would be so talented and competitive that it couldn't be ignored.

You do know that the nationally-ranked, presumed champ of the ACC (and a lock for a bowl game) lost to a near cellar-dwelling team in the "old" FCS, don't you?

[Bull_In_Exile]

No doubt, though you could probably throw down the MAC to FCS based on attendance provisions. In any event, the point of my scenerio is to destroy the fiction that there is no difference between BCS schools and FBS schools. By doing so you help college football be more equitable and help schools with their bottom lines. While FCS football in its current incarnation may not be attractive to networks, it would be if you made it a true alternative to BCS football. Let the big money schools have their own little computer round robin to determine their champion while the rest of college football plays for something real. The new FCS would be so talented and competitive that it couldn't be ignored.

Not until you revise the provisions. Right now it sits as a rolling average of 15K which only one MAC school is not currently meeting (Ball State). What you propse only benefits the BCS system and current FCS schools at the expense of 50 institutions who have invested a lot into getting to the FBS level. Any 'bump' in the FCS talent pool by the addition of FBS schools would be short lived.

[TypicalTribe]

You could make the argument that there ought to be three tiers of Division I at this point. The upper tier would be the BCS conferences and the MWC. The 2nd tier could be the rest of the current FBS as well as the upper levels of the FCS schools. The third level could be the smaller schools, non-schollies, MEAC/SWAC, Ivy, etc.

[Bull_In_Exile]

You could make the argument that there ought to be three tiers of Division I at this point. The upper tier would be the BCS conferences and the MWC. ThThe 2nd tier could be the rest of the current FBS as well as the upper levels of the FCS schools. e third level could be the smaller schools, non-schollies, MEAC/SWAC, Ivy, etc.

That Already Exist..

Tier-1 BCS AQ Schools (BE, B10, B12, ACC, SEC, PAC10)
Tier-2 BCS Non-AQ School (CUSA, MAC, WAC, MWC, SBC)
Tier-3 FCS

[TypicalTribe]

That Already Exist..

Tier-1 BCS AQ Schools (BE, B10, B12, ACC, SEC, PAC10)
Tier-2 BCS Non-AQ School (CUSA, MAC, WAC, MWC, SBC)
Tier-3 FCS

Not really. While treated differently in terms of BCS qualification, they are all FBS-level schools.

I'm saying let the 6 BCS conferences and the MWC play for the mythical national championship. Then take the rest of the current FBS and add the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky and whoever else is interested and have a playoff.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Not really. While treated differently in terms of BCS qualification, they are all FBS-level schools.

I'm saying let the 6 BCS conferences and the MWC play for the mythical national championship. Then take the rest of the current FBS and add the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky and whoever else is interested and have a playoff.

Except that has to be done by force of policy because the MAC/SBC/CUSA/WAC want no part of playoff football with CAA/SoCon/BigSky... Not a slam on FCS football just a fact.

The current arrangement allows for a Boise to grow, yours is a defacto locok out 50 schools already there. No way there is an NCAA official alive who will touch that.

[NDB]

No way there is an NCAA official alive who will touch that.

They would if it would make a buck!

[glsjunior]

And there's the rub. All of the FBS non AQ schools believe in the fiction that they one day can be a Boise St when it is probably not the case. Troy could win 20 straight Sunbelt championships and could never hope to get a tenth of the attention that Boise got this season. In fact, I bet that the day Petersen leaves Boise for the right BCS offer (Miami?) Boise ceases to be a national power and goes back to its pre-2000's status.

This reminds me of the Bush tax cut debate. Somewhere in Idaho there's a 55 year old Walmart greeter that is against a 3% tax hike on the rich because he still believes he will hit it big one day and he doesn't want to pay the extra taxes.

[EmeryZach]

So when does everyone think the official announcement will be? This week, next week, after the bowls?

[Bull_In_Exile]

They would if it would make a buck!

But it wont. The BCS is already in lawmakers crosshairs trying to kick out half the teams to benefit the remaining teams would take the safety off...

[Bull_In_Exile]

So when does everyone think the official announcement will be? This week, next week, after the bowls?

I have heard a rumor it will be announced at the MAC championship game this week..

[glsjunior]

It would if the expanded FCS got a tv contract. You could have some pretty decent matchups on a weekly basis

App St. vs. Southern Miss
Troy vs. SMU
UCF vs. W&M
East Carolina vs. James Madison
Ga. Southern vs. Houston
Miami (OH) vs Richmond

I'm sure that you all could come with better matchups but you see where I am going. You could also shift around some conference affiliations as well. At the end of the day most of the lower tier FBS programs are just FCS programs saddled with the burden of extra scholarships and Title IX sports with no real benefit in revenues.

[Bull_In_Exile]

At the end of the day most of the lower tier FBS programs are just FCS programs saddled with the burden of extra scholarships and Title IX sports with no real benefit in revenues.

no real benefit in revenues?

Last Year the MAC got
BCS Revenue (3 Million)
Non BCS-Bowl Revenue (3 Million)
TV Revenue (1.4 Million)

Thats 7.5 Million Dollars divided up by 13 teams or about 600K per team just for the BCS/FCS distinction. May seem like chump change but it covers the 44 million scholarships.

Add to this the money games against AQ teams in which the FBS teams from the AMC and SunBelt *typically* make 50% for taking and thats not chump change.

UB is getting nearly a million for Tennessee next season and about the same for Georgia in 12.

[glsjunior]

no real benefit in revenues?

Last Year the MAC got
BCS Revenue (3 Million)
Non BCS-Bowl Revenue (3 Million)
TV Revenue (1.4 Million)

Thats 7.5 Million Dollars divided up by 13 teams or about 600K per team just for the BCS/FCS distinction. May seem like chump change but it covers the 44 million scholarships.

Add to this the money games against AQ teams in which the FBS teams from the AMC and SunBelt *typically* make 50% for taking and thats not chump change.

UB is getting nearly a million for Tennessee next season and about the same for Georgia in 12.

Other than the bowl revenue that wouldn't change. They could still play BCS teams and get the same revenue. But I also think that they'd get additional revenue from tv contracts. Fox is so good at marketing that if they put their muscle behind it, they could make the FCS look like the NFL.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Other than the bowl revenue that wouldn't change. They could still play BCS teams and get the same revenue. But I also think that they'd get additional revenue from tv contracts. Fox is so good at marketing that if they put their muscle behind it, they could make the FCS look like the NFL.

TV contract will shrik
BCS share will go away if not shrink
Comp from AQ schools will shrink

Face it teams like Buffalo, Temple, and CUSA teams dont get covered on fox now why in the wolrd woul adding CAA change that?

[Tealblood]

Other than the bowl revenue that wouldn't change. They could still play BCS teams and get the same revenue. But I also think that they'd get additional revenue from tv contracts. Fox is so good at marketing that if they put their muscle behind it, they could make the FCS look like the NFL.

an FCS does not get the same revenue from a BCS game as an FBS does since the FBS can only use it as a counter for bowl-eligibility irregularly

[glsjunior]

Bull, That is because teams from the MAC, Sunbelt and Conf USA aren't playing for anything. Their only real purpose is to be fodder for BCS teams. By joining the FCS they create the anti-BCS coalition. That is right up Fox's alley. The can market the season as crowning the only true Divsion 1 champion. In fact if I were the FCS champion at its current state that is how I would market myself. That is how all the playoff teams should spin it. Since the BCS is not part of the NCAA the FCS winner should declare itself the only true NCAA Division 1 champion.

[glsjunior]

an FCS does not get the same revenue from a BCS game as an FBS does since the FBS can only use it as a counter for bowl-eligibility irregularly

So bascially you are saying that a team like Bowling Green is only in the FBS because it can get 850 k to get killed by Florida rather than 450k?

[Tealblood]

that is a pretty good difference $400,000 plus you could do it twice since you have a 12 game season to work with so $400,000 plus $850,000 is about $1,250,000 and that is a bunch of money

[Bull_In_Exile]

Actually you can do it three times (and some schools do). FBS you need 5 home games minimum. Four confernce games are home, pay an FCS team for a 5th an take a beating to get some money. Not saying I like doing it that much but check out WKU:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/98/western-kentucky-hilltoppers

Away games at Nebraska, South Florida, and UK all payday games.

[emilimo701]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2010/Internet/attendance/FBS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

Hint - start at the bottom and go backwards. Most of the MAC teams are the bottom of the barrel in attendance.

Yeah. Bowling Green and Ball State are at risk of losing FBS status due to two years in a row of sub-15k attendance. I don't think any team has ever had this enforced on them though. ?

[glsjunior]

So what is the real difference if you still have to pay for additional scollys upgraded facilities and additional women's sports? I mean if we use Boise as an example, they lost money and had to cut 750k in expenses last year. http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/04/07/1144027/tuition-increases-will-stretch.html. Now the guy missing those 2 field goals cost the athletic dept 12 million bucks but could a Western Kentucky ever hope to get to even Boise's level? Not without the support of a BCS conference.

[Bull_In_Exile]

UMass had to reduce their by 2.5Million last year! (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-7782260.html) How is that FCS cost containment working out?

Here is our fundamental difference: You think if you took the lower tier Bowl conferences you could package and sell it. "Hey honey turn off that Alabama Auburn game... UMass/Marshall is coming on..

I don't think there is a chance that anyone but the top 50 or so teams get the big tv bucks. So a school either hangs aroun in the lower FBS with the occasional few good seasons (or becomes TCU/Utah an gets into an AQ conf) or they go to FCS. The up side to FCS is the slightly lower cost, fewer sports, fewer scholarships. The upside to lower tier FBS is more TV, more of the BSC pie

[Sam Adams]

Um, that article is like 7 yrs old. But your point is well taken. UMass will need to do a very good job of creating functional revenue streams and success on the field. It would help if the MAC were to also add a few more CAA teams such as JMU/UD to lower travel costs and increase the rivalry factor and expand MAC to 16.


From an immediate impact perspective, its better to lose less money in the MAC than it is to lose more money in the CAA. Short/middle term there are more opportunities for UMass to increase revenues playing in the MAC than there are playing in the CAA. Long term you are betting that the market for football will continue to expand, that UMass can become well poised to take advantage of future opportunities to increase exposure and revenues over the next 15 yrs. UMass has a had a good basketball program, a good FCS program, and a decent Hockey program. They are a large school with extensive alumni and they are proximate to one major media market. Its by no means a slam dunk that this will work out for UMass w/in 5-10 yrs- but CAA is not working for the New England schools and this is an opportunity to move up which is better than downsizing or elimination.

[glsjunior]

UMass had to reduce their by 2.5Million last year! (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-7782260.html) How is that FCS cost containment working out?

Playing Bowling Green and the Zips won't help their bottom line any either. And they don't have many close BCS schools with the jack to give them the million dollar paydays. By contrast, Georgia is paying FAU a million to play in 2012 (http://blogs.ajc.com/uga-sports-blog/2010/11/30/georgia-will-pay-1-million-for-2012-football-game-vs-florida-atlantic/?cxntfid=blogs_uga_sports_blog), but that isn't too far of a trip for them. I don't think that BC or Syracuse has that kind of money (I may be wrong), rolling to Ohio state would probably eat up their budget quick and going down south is just not practical financially.

[umassfan]

I really dont think playing Maine, UNH, Delaware, JMU, Towson ect really drives people to want to go to the games. They go because of the team we are not who we are playing. I feel our core will come vs whoever we play. Playing FBS will only increase attendance and interest. Now students wont lose interest after tailgating if the game is on espn or tv somewhere. If we have uconn, bc, cuse, pitt, rutgers ect... then they would come because of the name.

[emilimo701]

You do realize that these leagues would have to reclassify all sports in order to move to D-II for FB?xeyebrowx

That's not going to happen for so many reasons.

What? Other schools have sports in different divisions. What is so holy about football that if it is division 2 you can't have any division 1 teams?

[BearsCountry]

What? Other schools have sports in different divisions. What is so holy about football that if it is division 2 you can't have any division 1 teams?

Ask Dayton about their days in D3. D3 schools cried bloody murder bc schools like Dayton had D1 hoops money backing them.

[superman7515]

What? Other schools have sports in different divisions. What is so holy about football that if it is division 2 you can't have any division 1 teams?

Umm... because it's against NCAA rules...

[NHwildEcat]

Umm... because it's against NCAA rules...

You can get exemptions thou if the NCAA deems it a worthy cause.

[Sam Adams]

Anybody else think the MAC may come knocking on JMU's door or UD's door or App. State's door after UMASS commits?

[pbr1893]

well, it sure would give a little more validity to the conference and several instant rivalries.

[Collegefootballfan]

Have read the last 17 pages in this post and most agree that the CAA is a better
conference than the MAC.
Most of the arguments for the Umass move is that they are being proactive in a
area where there current situation is shrinking at best.
Umass is taking there future in their own hands. Look at how well Temple is doing in
the MAC , once a national joke their program is winning and went to their first bowl
in years ,last year and will probably do the same this year. An interest in the program
is at an all time high.
The point is that winning even in the MAC solves all problems.
Having said that why is it so impossible to imagine schools like UNH and Maine
joining the MAC as well. They have proven that they can compete in the much
higher ranked and tougher CAA then why is so hard to believe they can't
do the same in the weaker MAC.
Would the expenses be more at first yes but the long term cost would be about the '
same. Imagine if the whole state of Maine and New Hamphire got behind the
program . An supported it as those in other states like Iowa, Idaho, and similiar
smaller financially strapped state do. In the MAC they could compete
in D1 Football, qualify for some bowl game and add more pride to these states.
It would be a great fit. I compare it to getting a minor league hockey team or
basketball team to come to a state. The economic impact would be about the same.
So why not have UNH and MAine join UMASS in the MAC. While you are at it
Why not URI.
Now I cannot wait for all the negative comments on why this would not work.
After all they already play in the higher rated CAA so playing on a bigger stage in
a weaker conference would be a piece of cake.
So swim or have fun in the NEC.

[danefan]

You can get exemptions thou if the NCAA deems it a worthy cause.

There are no exemptions to this rule anymore. Only exemptions apply to those grandfathered in (e.g. Hobart, JHU lax, RPI, Union, Clarkson, etc.. in hockey and Lemoyne has a baseball exemption I believe).

[401ks]

Have read the last 17 pages in this post and most agree that the CAA is a better conference than the MAAC.

FYI...

MAC - Mid-American Conference

MAAC - Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference

xpeacex

[emilimo701]

There are no exemptions to this rule anymore. Only exemptions apply to those grandfathered in (e.g. Hobart, JHU lax, RPI, Union, Clarkson, etc.. in hockey and Lemoyne has a baseball exemption I believe).

Merrimack is another one

[Bull_In_Exile]

Anybody else think the MAC may come knocking on JMU's door or UD's door or App. State's door after UMASS commits?

That would be sweet if I thought the MAC had that much foresight..

[Mattymc727]

Have read the last 17 pages in this post and most agree that the CAA is a better
conference than the MAC.
Most of the arguments for the Umass move is that they are being proactive in a
area where there current situation is shrinking at best.
Umass is taking there future in their own hands. Look at how well Temple is doing in
the MAC , once a national joke their program is winning and went to their first bowl
in years ,last year and will probably do the same this year. An interest in the program
is at an all time high.
The point is that winning even in the MAC solves all problems.
Having said that why is it so impossible to imagine schools like UNH and Maine
joining the MAC as well. They have proven that they can compete in the much
higher ranked and tougher CAA then why is so hard to believe they can't
do the same in the weaker MAC.
Would the expenses be more at first yes but the long term cost would be about the '
same. Imagine if the whole state of Maine and New Hamphire got behind the
program . An supported it as those in other states like Iowa, Idaho, and similiar
smaller financially strapped state do. In the MAC they could compete
in D1 Football, qualify for some bowl game and add more pride to these states.
It would be a great fit. I compare it to getting a minor league hockey team or
basketball team to come to a state. The economic impact would be about the same.
So why not have UNH and MAine join UMASS in the MAC. While you are at it
Why not URI.
Now I cannot wait for all the negative comments on why this would not work.
After all they already play in the higher rated CAA so playing on a bigger stage in
a weaker conference would be a piece of cake.
So swim or have fun in the NEC.

This would make sense for UNH if we had a stadium. As of right now we play in somebodys backyard with a few lawn chairs scattered around. Not sure we can get a new stadium or an upgrade anytime soon because it looks like the state will not grant any money and UNH cant find any big corporate donors since the economy tanked. Unless UNH has a lot of big news it is hiding from the community, this just isnt possible right now considering just the facilities. I would think its the same for Maine.

[Collegefootballfan]

A new stadium built with some stimulus money from Uncle Sam could help
boost the economy and put some people back to work.
Construction jobs and all the other benefits a new stadium is supposed add to
an area. Could spur other projects as well. If done right it could get some projects
off the ground and get people back to work,
It could happen
Looked what happened in Ct .

[NHwildEcat]

Merrimack is another one

UMass-Lowell as wel...D1 Hockey and D2 otherwise.

[Sam Adams]

A nice 25K seat bandbox stadium in Manchester would be great, then a big game or 2 at Gillette....just sayin....

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I would love to see Umass join the MAC for football. The Minutemen would add a recognizable name and give Temple a true rival within the league. They would also help dimish the Directional U stereotype the plagues the conference. The MAC's academic reputation would also be improved by having Miami(OH), Temple, Ohio, Buffalo and Umass leading the way.

I've enjoyed Temple's time in the MAC. I went out to Kent State about a month ago my first MAC roadie and it was a lot of fun. There's some good football being played in the league. The bottom IS terrible but the top 4-5 teams are all solid FBS squads

[ccd494]

We're toast.

[BigApp]

Should this pan out, UMass will now get to schedule Home/Home's with:
BC
UConn
Syracuse


all 3 of those home games they could schedule at Foxboro and sell it out. They can't do that in FCS.

not to mention Penn State, Pitt, Rutguhs...

Oh, and this gets the CAA one more step closer to a round robin schedule and the end of their paper champions.

[danefan]

We're toast.

Don't you think Maine would drop down to the NEC before dropping the program?

[Maroon&White]

Could UNH play in Gillette too?

[ccd494]

Don't you think Maine would drop down to the NEC before dropping the program?

Would the NEC want Maine at this point?

[aceinthehole]

Would the NEC want Maine at this point?

Don't see why not (assuming UM agrees to the current 40 scholly max).

[ccd494]

Don't see why not (assuming UM agrees to the current 40 scholly max).

The other thing to keep in mind is how terrible this timing is for Maine:

-Interim AD
-Lame Duck President
-New Governor who MAY be willing to pay the bill to keep the lights on at the State House, but only begrudgingly...

[NHwildEcat]

Should this pan out, UMass will now get to schedule Home/Home's with:
BC
UConn
Syracuse


all 3 of those home games they could schedule at Foxboro and sell it out. They can't do that in FCS.

not to mention Penn State, Pitt, Rutguhs...

Oh, and this gets the CAA one more step closer to a round robin schedule and the end of their paper champions.

Its hard for me to believe any game involving BC would sell out in Gillette...they have poor attendance as it is and they don't respect other schools (fans that is) so they would still look down on UMass.

[EmeryZach]

Could UNH play in Gillette too?

OK, so I got my NCAA rules wrong last time I tried, but I'll try again.

I believe there is an NCAA rule stating that only one FBS team can play per stadium. I think this is why 'Nova wouldn't be able to play at Lincoln Financial. Also, this is why USC plays at the LA Coliseum and UCLA plays at the Rose Bowl.

I hope I'm not wrong again.

[superman7515]

OK, so I got my NCAA rules wrong last time I tried, but I'll try again.

I believe there is an NCAA rule stating that only one FBS team can play per stadium. I think this is why 'Nova wouldn't be able to play at Lincoln Financial. Also, this is why USC plays at the LA Coliseum and UCLA plays at the Rose Bowl.

I hope I'm not wrong again.

UCLA played in the Coliseum from 1928 to 1981, all of those years also with USC playing in the Coliseum. They moved when the Raiders came to town. They wanted to build a 40k stadium on campus but the locals wouldn't allow it. Not sure if the rule is in place, but that's not why they don't have share the same stadium.

[Dane96]

Its hard for me to believe any game involving BC would sell out in Gillette...they have poor attendance as it is and they don't respect other schools (fans that is) so they would still look down on UMass.

They certainly DON'T have poor attendance! ****ty fans...yes.

[EmeryZach]

UCLA played in the Coliseum from 1928 to 1981, all of those years also with USC playing in the Coliseum. They moved when the Raiders came to town. They wanted to build a 40k stadium on campus but the locals wouldn't allow it. Not sure if the rule is in place, but that's not why they don't have share the same stadium.

Interesting.

I'm just curious, can you think of any FBS teams that share a stadium with another FBS team? I'm trying to think of one but I can't. I tried to search for the rule on the NCAA website but couldn't find it. I just seemed to remember when people were discussing 'Nova's move up that someone mentioned something about not being allowed to have two FBS teams in the same stadium. If you can find anything let me know, I'm very curious now.

[UAalum72]

Can't remember who, but in the last few years some SunBelt-level teams have played "home" games at AND versus BCS teams - I think Arkansas was one - to count the 70,000 attendance toward their own home average. But I don't think there are any full-time shares.

As to Nova, Temple has right of first refusal to dates at the Linc or may not want to share it, or the Big East may want control of the dates.

[BearsCountry]

Can't remember who, but in the last few years some SunBelt-level teams have played "home" games at AND versus BCS teams - I think Arkansas was one - to count the 70,000 attendance toward their own home average.

Louisiana-Monroe plays a home game against Arkansas in Little Rock. Idaho has played a home game against Washington State in Pullman. Arkansas State played a home game in Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City against Mizzou.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Anybody else think the MAC may come knocking on JMU's door or UD's door or App. State's door after UMASS commits?

If they do I hope UD has the sense to to turn them away. The MAC isn't a conference anyone should aspire to. UMass is in a different situation than UD, JMU, or App, and to a certain degree jumping to the MAC vs potentially having to join the NEC or drop football entirely makes sense. UD and JMU don't have the potential travel issues stemming from conference mates jumping ship - the CAA is loaded with mid-atlantic and mid-south teams, so UD fits right into the main footprint. App State is drawing huge crowds still, plays in a good conference, and is likely making plenty of money in the SoCon.

As it stands, I think UD should reject any FBS invite short of the BE or ACC.

[Bull_In_Exile]

As it stands, I think UD should reject any FBS invite short of the BE or ACC.

IOW Stay FCS ;)

Cause lets face it the odds of the ACC, BE, or any AQ conference reaching down into the FCS ranks for a team is next to nothing. Heck it took a near implosion for the WAC to look beyond the FBS.

Which is cool, I have no beef with the FCS if you want to have fewer sports and spend less money its a great option... But UMass fans were saying the ame thing about the MAC 12 months ago.

[Sam Adams]

IOW Stay FCS ;)
Cause lets face it the odds of the ACC, BE, or any AQ conference reaching down into the FCS ranks for a team is next to nothing. Heck it took a near implosion for the WAC to look beyond the FBS.

Hey if UD/JMU thinks that it should sit there waiting to be invited to an AQ Conf, good for UD/JMU. Perhaps doing nothing and waiting to see how things unfold is the best decision for those programs. With the timing of the downsizing of URI and the availability of a MAC invite - the timing appears to be right for UMASS to upgrade to the MAC especially since the CAA has shown zero interest in addressing the depletion of the CAA North over the past 2 seasons.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Hey if UD/JMU thinks that it should sit there waiting to be invited to an AQ Conf, good for UD/JMU. Perhaps doing nothing and waiting to see how things unfold is the best decision for those programs. With the timing of the downsizing of URI and the availability of a MAC invite - the timing appears to be right for UMASS to upgrade to the MAC especially since the CAA has shown zero interest in addressing the depletion of the CAA North over the past 2 seasons.

I hear you but there is a fine line between being content with where you are versus thinking you're in a better position than you are.

As I said, nothing wrong with being FCS, nothing at all. But when was the last time an AQ conference took an FCS member? To my knowledge the BE is the only one to do it and in their case it was because those schools were already BE for everything but football.

[superman7515]

It won't matter for UD. If you think the administration would even have the foresight to get something like that done, even for the MAC, I believe you are giving them entirely too much credit.

[saint0917]

Here's an article in today's paper

UMass football is right to join the Mid-American Conference, rather than risk being left adrift
(http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12/umass_football_is_right_to_joi.html)

[NHwildEcat]

They certainly DON'T have poor attendance! ****ty fans...yes.

I know the numbers say they don't have poor attendance...but anytime I see that dive on school all I can see are empty seats. Their alums are just the kind to buy tickets and stay home just to show that they haev good attendance. Joke fanbase.

[Dane96]

Dude...I hate BC...but had seasons for many years...and went to two games this year because I love football. They pack the stadium...except for games against Kent State, Weber State...etc. Only disappointing crowd (size wise) over the years for me was the Clemson game this year because the weather was perfect...but the fans...who indeed suck for the most part...bailed on the team as it was mired in a crappy year.

But...pretty much all the games I have been to have been packed or near packed...and I have gone to probably 40 or so over the last 12 years.

[aust42]

Hey if UD/JMU thinks that it should sit there waiting to be invited to an AQ Conf, good for UD/JMU. Perhaps doing nothing and waiting to see how things unfold is the best decision for those programs. With the timing of the downsizing of URI and the availability of a MAC invite - the timing appears to be right for UMASS to upgrade to the MAC especially since the CAA has shown zero interest in addressing the depletion of the CAA North over the past 2 seasons.

How do you consider moving to the MAC an upgrade? Because it's 1A? The MAC is a horrible conference. The MAC is rated lower than the CAA, they have teams that lose to FCS teams every year (Gardener Webb & Liberty this year). The MAC Champion plays the 6-7th place team out of the Big Ten in Detroit, MI. The other two bowl tie in's pit MAC teams against a SunBelch (if their bowl eligible) and WAC (soon to be worse than the Sunbelch) teams. The MAC is so desperate for TV exposure they make their members play games on Tuesday & Wednesday nights. What commuting fan can go to those games on a work night?

The MAC is so bad that UMASS will probably win the Conference next year like Marshall did years ago. Look what happened to Marshall.

[Dane96]

Rumor has it that a certain school in the Bronx has been talking to the MAC via intermediaries. My source is from directly within the school. Not sure how i feel about this...but I am not sold it would work for this particular team.

[henfan]

Here's an article in today's paper

UMass football is right to join the Mid-American Conference, rather than risk being left adrift
(http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/12/umass_football_is_right_to_joi.html)

While I agree with his premise that the MAC may be the right move for UMass right now, some of the reasoning is completely flawed.

Division I-AA football may survive, but it also may not.

Of course FCS FB is going to survive and so will the CAA. The problem is that, because of decisions made by NU, HU & URI, the CAA may no longer be as viable an option as it once was or, rather, the MAC is a more attractive alternative.

If UMass stays put, and Division I-AA collapses in the Northeast or altogether, the choices might come down to dropping to Division II or III, or dropping the sport altogether.

I-AA is not going to collapse in the Northeast, as evidenced by the presence of the NEC. Schools are not going to reclassify their entire ADs to D-II or D-III simply to accomodate FB. A couple may eventually drop sponsorship of the sport, especially as the Yankee FB Club Conference gains in popularity.

UMass could easily continue to play in the CAA for as long as they wish. It's just going to get more costly from the travel standpoint.

[Sam Adams]

How do you consider moving to the MAC an upgrade? Because it's 1A? The MAC is a horrible conference. The MAC is rated lower than the CAA, they have teams that lose to FCS teams every year (Gardener Webb & Liberty this year). The MAC Champion plays the 6-7th place team out of the Big Ten in Detroit, MI. The other two bowl tie in's pit MAC teams against a SunBelch (if their bowl eligible) and WAC (soon to be worse than the Sunbelch) teams. The MAC is so desperate for TV exposure they make their members play games on Tuesday & Wednesday nights. What commuting fan can go to those games on a work night?

The MAC is so bad that UMASS will probably win the Conference next year like Marshall did years ago. Look what happened to Marshall.


Of course moving to FBS is an Upgrade. Of course there are some weaker programs in the MAC - but that doesn't mean its not an upgrade over dying a slow death in the CAA playing powerhouses like Towson & Maine. Moreover, its not just changing a conference - the entire program is going to be upgraded in terms of schollys, facilities, coaches, recruiting, marketing, TV exposure and revenue. The upgrade to FBS also brings with it significantly more TV exposure for the program as well as much more functional revenue stream opportunities. Not to mention the fact that UM's chances to move up to an AQ conference are greatly improved if they are already playing at the higher FBS level. An important thing from our perspective is the reality that in the past 3 years the CAA has done NOTHING as we sat there and watched HU, NU and URI leave - and then they gave us a lousy home schedule - as if the CAA was totally clueless to the realities affecting their member schools. When you are presented with a future of sticking with the shrinking CAA, downsizing, elimination or upgrading to the MAC, by far the best option for UMass is getting an invitation and upgrading.

You can disagree as to your program. But to say that UMASS moving up to FBS isn't an upgrade is idiotic. Its an upgrade for the program, On the field and off the field.

[Bull_In_Exile]

Ahhh I love it when someone gets so pumped that they can slam an FBS conference... It's like watching a kid ride a bike for the first time, until they hit a tree..

=================================

"The MAC is rated lower than the CAA"

In recent years the MAC's rating has been down. Right now its less than 3 Sagarin points behing CAA and less than 5 behind CUSA. Its better than every other FCS conference.

"they have teams that lose to FCS teams every year"

And CAA has teams that lose to a MAC team every year. UB, a laughing stock in the MAC, destroyed Rhode Island who beat New Hampshire, Nova, and UMass.

"The MAC Champion plays the 6-7th place team out of the Big Ten in Detroit"

Latest MAC Bowl Projections this year (from ESPN, CFN, Phil Steele, SI, NBC, CBS, USA Today)

NIU: Little Caesars vs. Army (1), Middle Tennessee (1) or Louisville (6)
Miami: GoDaddy vs. Troy (8)
Toledo: Maaco vs. Utah (1) Humanitarian vs. Nevada (4), Sun vs. Maryland (1), NC State (1) or Miami (1)
Ohio: New Mexico vs. Fresno St (2) or BYU (1), Maaco vs. Utah (2), Armed Forces vs. Army (1), Humanitarian vs. Boise St (1), No Bowl (1)
Temple: Humanitarian vs. Nevada (2) or Fresno St (1), Sun vs. Miami (1), Maaco vs. Utah (4)


"The MAC is so desperate for TV exposure they make their members play games on Tuesday & Wednesday nights. "

Other Conference with Tuesday & Wednesday night games

C-USA (UCF(2), UAB(1), Marshall(1))
WAC (Boise(1), LaTech(1),
SBC (AkState(1), MiddleTen(1)
BE (Rutgers(1), South Florida (1),

Playing weeknight games is part of getting a deal with ESPN unless you're the SEC.

"What commuting fan can go to those games on a work night? "

Whats the difference between that and a Thursday night game? which are played by almost *all conference*. Each MAC team plays one, maybe two wonky weeknight games (out of 12) a season.

"The MAC is so bad that UMASS will probably win the Conference next year like Marshall did years ago."

UMass could not dominate Rhode Island its doubtful they would win the MAC very soon. Though a good CAA team would have a winning conference record NIU would squash any CAA team this season.

[Sam Adams]

UMass could easily continue to play in the CAA for as long as they wish. It's just going to get more costly from the travel standpoint.

Wrong, just totally wrong. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what is happening to full scholly FCS football in the northeast - its disappearing. Everytime we lose another program in the northeast, the prospects of continuing get more expensive with less and less ROI. Its no longer becoming viable in the Northeast. Programs are shutting down or downsizing. Have you not noticed this trend???xconfusedx It can't continue. The CAA apparently doesn't give a hoot about UMass or the issues facing Northeastern full Scholly FCS. So be it. programs are voting with their feet. Maine and New Hampshire will almost certainly be leaving as well as soon as they can figure out how to spell NEC.

Massachusetts is upgrading and moving up to save and enhance its program which is by far the best option of the available options at this time.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

... Moreover, its not just changing a conference - the entire program is going to be upgraded in terms of schollys, facilities, coaches, recruiting, marketing, TV exposure and revenue...


...
"The MAC is so desperate for TV exposure they make their members play games on Tuesday & Wednesday nights. "

Other Conference with Tuesday & Wednesday night games

C-USA (UCF(2), UAB(1), Marshall(1))
WAC (Boise(1), LaTech(1),
SBC (AkState(1), MiddleTen(1)
BE (Rutgers(1), South Florida (1)

...

I'm sorry, it's time to differentiate between "TV exposure" and "TV exposure".

MAC football has the floor on most Tuesday or Wednesday nights, on ESPN.

Pros:
Nobody else is playing football at that time, so they're the only show in town. Also, they're on one of the major ESPNs instead of ESPN3.

Cons:
It makes a mockery of the fact that the players are also students who are in the middle of the reason they are going to school - i.e. that going to classes thing - and is hugely disruptive in terms of scheduling. MAC teams are not BCS teams, so their games hardly make a ripple as to who's going to the Rose Bowl - so only hard-core gamblers really care about the outcome, and Bowl college football fans could care less. FCS fans largely know that the MAC teams are probably the equivalent to, or less than, the top teams in FCS (certainly the CAA), but since their games are meaningless to the playoffs, they don't pay much attention either.

CAA football has a "Game of the Week" on a web of local Comcast affiliates. These games are available through local cable companies and Direct TV.

Cons:
The web of local affiliates do not have as much reach as ESPN.

Pros:
Games can take place on Saturday, the traditional day for college football. Students and athletes can actually go to class and have a proper week of preparation for opponents. Students and fans can have regular lives instead of planning for Tuesday night football. Games are still on TV - and done very well by Comcast - and if a player makes a great play, it will still be on SportsCenter. Since they're produced by Comcast, the schools themselves don't need to fork over the money to produce the games.

And the $1.7 in extra "revenue" that the MAC gets for being on ESPN? That's easily eaten up by the extra scholarship cost, Title IX matching, and a host of other expenses - not least lighting for a night game, paying support personnel to sell hotdogs and take tickets on a Tuesday night, etc.

It seems like a bargain with the devil to me. And it's not like the choice is between ESPN or nothing. CAA schools get PLENTY of "TV exposure".

[Bull_In_Exile]

"MAC football has the floor on most Tuesday or Wednesday nights, on ESPN."

There was not a MAC Tuesday or Wednesday night game until week 11 of a 13 week season. Up to that point CUSA, the BE, and the Sun Belt all played early weeknight games.

As to the academics issue why are Thursday night games played by everyone, including the SEC, Big12 any more of a shot than a Tuesday game? Heck several one of those 'weeknight games" were on the two days before thanksgiving...

Trying to disparage the MAC because of their TV schedule is kind of silly. I am pretty sure if CAA could swing 1+ million for each of their teams to play one or two weeknight games they would jump at the chance.

[NDB]

Every other college sport has games during the week.

College sports is a business. Learnin' is secondary (if that).

[danefan]

The MAC is a good fit for UMass apparently. It may not be a good fit for other schools, so fine. But as the UMass fans have said - what other choice does UMass have?

Any argument saying that a move to the MAC is not a step-up for UMass isn't really looking at the future. The CAA in the Northeast is as good as gone within 3 years tops. Even if it survives its going to have to do it with the addition of schools that will need time to get up to quality the CAA is accustomed to, if they can ever even get there.

I for one, am somewhat jealous of UMass. I wish Albany would get off the fence and make a definitive statement either way. I think, that if SBU and Albany were to commit to making the appropriate adjustments to spending, that the MAC would be a decent fit for them too, but at least from Albany's side I don't see any indication that our Administration wants any kind of forward progress.

In fact, if the team in the Bronx does end up in the MAC as rumored, I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Stony Brook follow them by 2013.

[henfan]

Wrong, just totally wrong. Perhaps you haven't been paying attention to what is happening to fully scholly FCS football in the northeast - its disappearing. Everytime we lose another program in the northeast, the prospects of continuing get more expensive with less and less and return on investment. Its no longer becoming viable in the Northeast. Programs are shutting down or downsizing. Have you not noticed this trend???xconfusedx It can't continue. The CAA apparently doesn't give a hoot about UMass or the issues facing Northeastern full Scholly FCS. So be it. programs are voting with their feet. Maine and New Hampshire will almost certainly be leaving as well as soon as they can figure out how to spell NEC.

Massachusetts is upgrading and moving up to save and enhance its program which is by far the best option of the available options at this time.

Full scholly FB is disappearing because schools haven't been committed to making it work, sadly enough. What significant recent investments have NE schools made in their FB infrastructure? (Chirping of crickets...)

Saying the CAA doesn't care about the financial issues facing its NE members is a completely unlearned opinion. Unfortunately, there's not much the conference can do within reason to help, outside of organizing favorable scheduling solutions. And that is exactly what the conference has attempted to do. HU, NU and URI's decisions to eliminate or downgrade FB were institutional decisions driven by a host of internal factors. UConn reclassified because of the sweet deal offered by the BEC and funded largely by CT taxpayers.

The fact remains that schools like JMU, ODU, W&M, UD and UR (and GSU) have made and continue to plan significant investments into their FB infrastructure, while the NE contingent has done comparatively little. In fact, several of the NE schools complained for years that they could not afford to invest in FB and couldn't keep up competitively with the conference. Their solution was proposed across the board scholarship reductions. Past instigators like URI and, maybe soon, Maine will soon be getting their wish with de-emphasized programs. (Good luck with that.)

As I said, given the circumstances, I don't think UMass moving to the MAC is a bad move. I don't share your ridiculously rosey opinion that reclassification will necessarily prove to be an upgrade either competitively or financially, especially in the short term. Worst case scenario though the state of UMass FB will be about the same as during its time in the CAA/A-10 and that ain't too bad. Best case, UMass is setting themselves up for a better affiliation down the line.

[IaaScribe]

I don't think the casual FCS fan realizes the commitment that Stony Brook is making to football. The Seawolves are a major player in this game.

[TypicalTribe]

Will UMass play a CAA schedule next year if they accept a MAC invite?

[Sam Adams]

Every CAA / FCS program will have individual characteristics and environmental factors which shape their approach to questions about how they wish to position their football program going forward. There are alot of individual factors that affect what is the right course of action for each program.

Some of this depends on where you see college football going in the next 15 years. Will there be a distinction between full scholly FCS and FBS? Will the bowl system survive? Will there be a playoff system? If there is what programs will be able to qualify? Will the television market for college football grow? How developed is your program currently? Where can your program best position itself to be able to take advantage of future opportunities? How strong is the historical institutional tie to the program? What will happen to your other sports depending on what decision you make? Etc, Etc, Etc, - alot of individualized factors.

For me personally, I am very excited by the challenge of enhancing our football program, building our team, improving the facilities where we play, the chance to compete in a new conference and against more FBS programs, the chance to go play in a bowl game. I am hoping that a few FCS brothers come join the MAC. Its not a perfect move, but for UMass its seems to clearly be the best option.

[danefan]

Will UMass play a CAA schedule next year if they accept a MAC invite?

Yes, but they will not be eligible for the playoffs. They'll be classified as a FBS Provision team.

In 2012 they'd play at least 6 FBS games and would not be eligible for either the FCS playoffs or a Bowl Game.

In 2013 they'd be a full FBS member.

[SumItUp]

Yes, but they will not be eligible for the playoffs. They'll be classified as a FBS Provision team.

In 2012 they'd play at least 6 FBS games and would not be eligible for either the FCS playoffs or a Bowl Game.

In 2013 they'd be a full FBS member.

Would they be able to go immediately to 85 scholarships for the 2011 season (if they chose to fund them)?

Can a FBS transfer begin playing immediately for the team in 2011 or 2012 while they are in provisional status? Does the answer to this question change if they have scholarship totals "less than or equal to 63" OR "greater than 63"?

[danefan]

Would they be able to go immediately to 85 scholarships for the 2011 season (if they chose to fund them)?

Can a FBS transfer begin playing immediately for the team in 2011 or 2012 while they are in provisional status? Does the answer to this question change if they have scholarship totals "less than or equal to 63" OR "greater than 63"?

I believe they can go directly to 85 scholarships if they want to fund them.

I believe once you are in FBS provisions status, you are technically an FBS team and you have to follow all the rules that an FBS team would, including the FBS-to-FBS transfer rules.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Don't listen to the naysayers Umass fans and alums. As a huge fan of football in general the MAC is a great place to your get sea legs in FBS. NIU, Ohio, Temple, Miami(OH) and Toledo all play a solid brand of football. If Umass does it right they'll be extremely successful in the conference and nationally imo. Success in the MAC could propel Umass in to the Big East. It's absolutely worth it imo.

Like i said earlier, Umass in the MAC would help further the diminish the directionl U, third tier state school stigma. That's something that always bugs me.

The thing that will stink is how far the road games are going to be for the most part. Even to Philly and Buffalo it's 5 hours. Living in Northeastern PA i can get to Buffalo in 4, Kent State and Akron in 5. The rest are over-nighters. Amherst is about 4.5 if i remember correctly. I did the LU-Umass playoff game in '98.

[Sam Adams]

Full scholly FB is disappearing because schools haven't been committed to making it work, sadly enough. What significant recent investments have NE schools made in their FB infrastructure? (Chirping of crickets...)

If you wish to invest in the Maine, NU, HU or URI football programs that is up to you. Those schools all decided that playing in the CAA wasn't worth the investment. UMass has made significant investments in its game and training facilities, field, lights etc and it doesn't want to continue to squander that investment doing nothing in the dwindling CAA or following uri on the walk of shame to the NEC. Regardless of the reason, full scholly FCS isn't financially viable for most if not all the schools in NY & New England.





Saying the CAA doesn't care about the financial issues facing its NE members is a completely unlearned opinion. Unfortunately, there's not much the conference can do within reason to help, outside of organizing favorable scheduling solutions. And that is exactly what the conference has attempted to do.

Absolute 100% Horse manure. The CAA is a VA based league and recently retired Commissioner Yeager never showed any interest in supporting and enhancing the CAA North. The scheduling has been horrid and even after we lost 2 programs, the CAA screwed us on scheduling. I watched the CAA do a terrible job w/scheduling for 10 years. Both the Yankee Conference and the A10 did a better job than CAA has done. And its in some sense understandable, in that the CAA is essentially a Virginia based basketball league. The CAA has done a terrible job of retaining the CAA North and in particular a terrible job of scheduling from the Massachusetts perspective.





The fact remains that schools like JMU, ODU, W&M, UD and UR (and GSU) have made and continue to plan significant investments into their FB infrastructure, while the NE contingent has done comparatively little. In fact, several of the NE schools complained for years that they could not afford to invest in FB and couldn't keep up competitively with the conference. Their solution was proposed across the board scholarship reductions. Past instigators like URI and, maybe soon, Maine will soon be getting their wish with de-emphasized programs. (Good luck with that.)

That is not the fact. e.g. UMass has made significant investments in their FB infrastructure. The fact is that some schools cannot continue to be financially viable in full scholly FCS. That trend will be continuing, regardless of whether you choose to exonerate the CAA and blame the programs. That is the reality that is in part driving decisions to dump the CAA for the MAC. Good luck to the CAA as it continues to make excuses and lose members.




As I said, given the circumstances, I don't think UMass moving to the MAC is a bad move. I don't share your ridiculously rosey opinion that reclassification will necessarily prove to be an upgrade either competitively or financially, especially in the short term. Worst case scenario though the state of UMass FB will be about the same as during its time in the CAA/A-10 and that ain't too bad. Best case, UMass is setting themselves up for a better affiliation down the line.


I don't think anybody is anticipating short term magical enhancements. This about building the program, playing better football, moving forward and away from the CAA, surviving, increasing revenue and exposure, playing FBS opponents, and positioning the program for long term future success and stability.

[Go...gate]

Rumor has it that a certain school in the Bronx has been talking to the MAC via intermediaries. My source is from directly within the school. Not sure how i feel about this...but I am not sold it would work for this particular team.

My gosh - I have a lot of respect for the MAC, but what can FU be thinking? They would be a square peg in a round hole.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

My gosh - I have a lot of respect for the MAC, but what can FU be thinking? They would be a square peg in a round hole.

Which is exactly why they're likely thinking about it. If there's a school that runs a more dysfunctional athletic department than Fordham i'd like to see it.

[NovaWildcat]

Don't listen to the naysayers Umass fans and alums. As a huge fan of football in general the MAC is a great place to your get sea legs in FBS. NIU, Ohio, Temple, Miami(OH) and Toledo all play a solid brand of football.

Non conference MAC wins this season...
Miami: Colorado St.
Ohio: Wofford, Louisiana-Lafayatte
Temple: Villanova, UConn, Army
Kent St: Murray St.
Bowling Green: Marshall
Buffalo: Rhode Island
Akron: None.
Northern Illinois: North Dakota, Minnesota
Toledo: Purdue
Western Michigan: Nicholls St.
Ball St: Southeast Missouri St.
Central Michigan: Hampton
Eastern Michigan: None.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Besides Temple, none of these teams have OOC wins of any quality. I could even give you the two wins over marginal Big Ten teams (Purdue/Minn), and you still don't have much. The MAC strikes me as a dead end -- and unless it has this incredible revenue stream I'm missing, seems like a huge money pit.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Regardless of the reason, full scholly FCS isn't financially viable for most if not all the schools in NY & New England.

I don't think anybody is anticipating short term magical enhancements. This about building the program, playing better football, moving forward and away from the CAA, surviving, increasing revenue and exposure, playing FBS opponents, and positioning the program for long term future success and stability.

Is it about puppy dogs, babies and ice cream, too? "Full Scholly FCS football" is viable if you've got your priorities straight - it's only "not viable" if you believe that an athletics program is more about making money than giving kids a chance to go to school and play football, making a nice place for alums to visit on Saturdays, and a real chance of winning an actual national championship.

The MAC can play FBS teams, and the CAA can't? Really? MAC football is of better quality than that of the CAA? Really? How many FBS Top 25 teams have the MAC beaten this year?

If you're going to be calling anything horse manure, start by reading your own posts.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Non conference MAC wins this season...
Miami: Colorado St.
Ohio: Wofford, Louisiana-Lafayatte
Temple: Villanova, UConn, Army
Kent St: Murray St.
Bowling Green: Marshall
Buffalo: Rhode Island
Akron: None.
Northern Illinois: North Dakota, Minnesota
Toledo: Purdue
Western Michigan: Nicholls St.
Ball St: Southeast Missouri St.
Central Michigan: Hampton
Eastern Michigan: None.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Besides Temple, none of these teams have OOC wins of any quality. I could even give you the two wins over marginal Big Ten teams (Purdue/Minn), and you still don't have much. The MAC strikes me as a dead end -- and unless it has this incredible revenue stream I'm missing, seems like a huge money pit.

Eight, count 'em, eight FCS teams on that list. And remember, they're all getting paid guarantees to show up and play. So much for "revenues".

That doesn't count Liberty and Gardner-Webb, either.

Actually, the CAA's OOC schedule looks harder than the MAC's. Objectively.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Non conference MAC wins this season...
Miami: Colorado St.
Ohio: Wofford, Louisiana-Lafayatte
Temple: Villanova, UConn, Army
Kent St: Murray St.
Bowling Green: Marshall
Buffalo: Rhode Island
Akron: None.
Northern Illinois: North Dakota, Minnesota
Toledo: Purdue
Western Michigan: Nicholls St.
Ball St: Southeast Missouri St.
Central Michigan: Hampton
Eastern Michigan: None.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Besides Temple, none of these teams have OOC wins of any quality. I could even give you the two wins over marginal Big Ten teams (Purdue/Minn), and you still don't have much. The MAC strikes me as a dead end -- and unless it has this incredible revenue stream I'm missing, seems like a huge money pit.

The problem with the MAC is there are schools that care and there are schools that don't or they don't have the people in place to make it work.

NIU, Temple, Ohio, Toledo, Miami(OH), CMU, have the coaches and administrators in place to be successful while Akron, Bowling Green, Ball State, Kent State, Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan and Buffalo can't put it all together.

Like i said, if Umass is committed to making this a success than it will be.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Eight, count 'em, eight FCS teams on that list. And remember, they're all getting paid guarantees to show up and play. So much for "revenues".

That doesn't count Liberty and Gardner-Webb, either.

Actually, the CAA's OOC schedule looks harder than the MAC's. Objectively.

You can't seriously compare the CAA's OOC schedule to that of the MAC's.

Miami(OH) - @ Florida, @ Missouri, Colorado State, @ Cincinnati (rival)
Ohio - Wofford, @ Ohio State, @ Marshall(border rivalry), Louisiana-Lafayette
Temple - Villanova, Uconn, @Penn State and @ Army
Kent State - Murray State, @ Boston College, @ Penn State, Army
Bowling Green - @ Troy, @ Tulsa, Marshall, @ Michigan
Akron - Syracuse, Gardner-Webb, @ Kentucky, @ Indiana
Buffalo - Rhode Island, @ Baylor, UCF, @ Uconn
Northern Illinois - @ Iowa State, North Dakota, @ Illinois, @ Minnesota
Toledo - Arizona, @ Purdue, Wyoming, @ Boise State
Western Michigan - @ Michigan State, Nicholls State, Idaho, @ Notre Dame
Ball State - SW Missouri State, Liberty, @ Purdue, @ Iowa
Central Michigan - Hampton, @ Northwestern, @ Virginia Tech, @ Navy
Eastern Michigan - Army, @ Ohio State, @ Vanderbilt, @ Virginia

[danefan]

You can't seriously compare the CAA's OOC schedule to that of the MAC's.

Miami(OH) - @ Florida, @ Missouri, Colorado State, @ Cincinnati (rival)
Ohio - Wofford, @ Ohio State, @ Marshall(border rivalry), Louisiana-Lafayette
Temple - Villanova, Uconn, @Penn State and @ Army
Kent State - Murray State, @ Boston College, @ Penn State, Army
Bowling Green - @ Troy, @ Tulsa, Marshall, @ Michigan
Akron - Syracuse, Gardner-Webb, @ Kentucky, @ Indiana
Buffalo - Rhode Island, @ Baylor, UCF, @ Uconn
Northern Illinois - @ Iowa State, North Dakota, @ Illinois, @ Minnesota
Toledo - Arizona, @ Purdue, Wyoming, @ Boise State
Western Michigan - @ Michigan State, Nicholls State, Idaho, @ Notre Dame
Ball State - SW Missouri State, Liberty, @ Purdue, @ Iowa
Central Michigan - Hampton, @ Northwestern, @ Virginia Tech, @ Navy
Eastern Michigan - Army, @ Ohio State, @ Vanderbilt, @ Virginia
xasswhipxxnodx

Come on guys....seriously....step back and think this through without the FCS-colored glasses on.

[NovaWildcat]

You can't seriously compare the CAA's OOC schedule to that of the MAC's.

Miami(OH) - @ Florida, @ Missouri, Colorado State, @ Cincinnati (rival)
Ohio - Wofford, @ Ohio State, @ Marshall(border rivalry), Louisiana-Lafayette
Temple - Villanova, Uconn, @Penn State and @ Army
Kent State - Murray State, @ Boston College, @ Penn State, Army
Bowling Green - @ Troy, @ Tulsa, Marshall, @ Michigan
Akron - Syracuse, Gardner-Webb, @ Kentucky, @ Indiana
Buffalo - Rhode Island, @ Baylor, UCF, @ Uconn
Northern Illinois - @ Iowa State, North Dakota, @ Illinois, @ Minnesota
Toledo - Arizona, @ Purdue, Wyoming, @ Boise State
Western Michigan - @ Michigan State, Nicholls State, Idaho, @ Notre Dame
Ball State - SW Missouri State, Liberty, @ Purdue, @ Iowa
Central Michigan - Hampton, @ Northwestern, @ Virginia Tech, @ Navy
Eastern Michigan - Army, @ Ohio State, @ Vanderbilt, @ Virginia

THIS makes my point. The play of football in the MAC is not 'solid' by any means. The conference has THREE wins against BCS teams...in 28 games. A solid conference would get LUCKY more times than that.

[Sam Adams]

Is it about puppy dogs, babies and ice cream, too? "Full Scholly FCS football" is viable if you've got your priorities straight - it's only "not viable" if you believe that an athletics program is more about making money than giving kids a chance to go to school and play football, making a nice place for alums to visit on Saturdays, and a real chance of winning an actual national championship.

The MAC can play FBS teams, and the CAA can't? Really? MAC football is of better quality than that of the CAA? Really? How many FBS Top 25 teams have the MAC beaten this year?


Congratulations - You failed to cite to one statement in my post that was incorrect. If Full Scholly FCS football is so viable in NY & New England then please tell me who are the NY & New England programs that you project will be playing in the CAA in 3 years. I won't hold my breath while you go try and find an answer to that. xlolx

Moreover, please show me where I stated that the CAA teams can't play FBS teams? Hell we almost beat Michigan this year. DUH. The difference is that as an FBS team UMAss will get to play more FBS teams for more $ and hopefully w/a greater likelihood of success than UMass would be able to do as an FCS team. If you are clueless about these realities, thats up to you. xlolx

I really don't care how many MAC or CAA programs beat a top 25 team this year. I am concerned w/where UMass is heading in the future. I know that the CAA plays a high quality brand of football. Its great perhaps if you are full scholly FCS in Virginia. But here in New England in some cases in our experience, being a top level CAA team can actually work against your program in terms of finding suitable OOC opponents that will produce a good revenue stream. Its another reason why for UMass staying full scholly FCS in the CAA isn't a great option in terms of moving our program forward.

Its pretty simple - the CAA has become a bad fit for UMass going forward for alot of reasons and rather than standing still and doing nothing while the CAA North disappears around us and while the CAA gives us another crappy schedule - the program needs to move on to better opportunities for itself. Perhaps for another program that is not trying to play full scholly FCS in NY or New England there would be a different analysis. I love the CAA competition, our division is disappearing. Get it?

[TypicalTribe]

THIS makes my point. The play of football in the MAC is not 'solid' by any means. The conference has THREE wins against BCS teams...in 28 games. A solid conference would get LUCKY more times than that.

Let's be honest, the bottom rungs of FBS are effectively there to serve the BCS conferences. There are very few OOC games played between the power conferences because it now makes sense to play money games against the MAC, Sun Belt and C-USA to get to bowl-eligible status.

That being said, there is clearly a bump in visibility and respect just by gaining the FBS label. I love FCS, but we're clearly the Rodney Dangerfield of college football.

I congratulate UMass on making the move, if it happens, and while I don't think it's a huge jump, it's definitely a bump in a number of ways and probably the best long-term decision for the program.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

THIS makes my point. The play of football in the MAC is not 'solid' by any means. The conference has THREE wins against BCS teams...in 28 games. A solid conference would get LUCKY more times than that.

And every single one of those wins - over Minnesota, Purdue, UConn - can't hold a candle to James Madison's win over Virginia Tech. Game over.

[danefan]

And every single one of those wins - over Minnesota, Purdue, UConn - can't hold a candle to James Madison's win over Virginia Tech. Game over.

You aren't seeing the forest through the trees here LFN. Look at the CAA NORTH in the next 4-5 years compared to the MAC for UMass.

What JMU, App State or Delaware does has nothing to do with the remaining CAA North 3. Apples and oranges.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Look, my point here is not to disparage MAC football. It is what it is - like FCS, the top teams play better football than they're given credit for. UB and Temple are solid teams that could give a whole lot of BCS members a run for their money.

But UMass folks seem to be pursuing a whole lot of different justifications for their decision, all based on common FBS fallacies.

All I will say is this: If UMass is happy with staying in the MAC for now and the next three decades, I say that's wonderful. Go for it.

But I don't get that impression. I think that UMass fans really are trying to maneuver themselves to be taken by their real target, the Big East - and who knows whenever that dream will happen, if ever.

In the meantime, you will be spending a truckload of money - for more scholarships, to sponsor the GMAC Bowl in Michigan (people tend to forget about that one), Title IX matching, etc. - for an uncertain future.

Games against Buffalo will never be bigger than ones with UConn. That is the whole problem with this plan. Folks around UMass way will not come home to watch Buffalo in an expanded McGuirk stadium, Foxboro, or wherever it's played. It's either UConn, or nobody.

[danefan]

Look, my point here is not to disparage MAC football. It is what it is - like FCS, the top teams play better football than they're given credit for. UB and Temple are solid teams that could give a whole lot of BCS members a run for their money.

But UMass folks seem to be pursuing a whole lot of different justifications for their decision, all based on common FBS fallacies.

All I will say is this: If UMass is happy with staying in the MAC for now and the next three decades, I say that's wonderful. Go for it.

But I don't get that impression. I think that UMass fans really are trying to maneuver themselves to be taken by their real target, the Big East - and who knows whenever that dream will happen, if ever.

In the meantime, you will be spending a truckload of money - for more scholarships, to sponsor the GMAC Bowl in Michigan (people tend to forget about that one), Title IX matching, etc. - for an uncertain future.

Games against Buffalo will never be bigger than ones with UConn. That is the whole problem with this plan. Folks around UMass way will not come home to watch Buffalo in an expanded McGuirk stadium, Foxboro, or wherever it's played. It's either UConn, or nobody.

What is the alternative?

Spending more money to stay in the CAA and play Georgia State at home?

Go to the NEC and play Saced Heart and Wagner at home?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You aren't seeing the forest through the trees here LFN. Look at the CAA NORTH in the next 4-5 years compared to the MAC for UMass.

What JMU, App State or Delaware does has nothing to do with the remaining CAA North 3. Apples and oranges.

The original point being made here was that UMass wants to go to the MAC to "play better football", per Sam Adams. My point being: the CAA RIGHT NOW plays better football than the MAC, and JMU's win over Virginia Tech amply proves that. Despite a multitude of opportunities to do so, no MAC team this year beat a team as good as Virginia Tech.

This punches a pretty large hole in the "we're going to the MAC to play better football" argument. CAA football is as good as the MAC's brand of football, and possibly even better. Heck, two Big South teams even upset their membership. You can't say that about the CAA - even 1-10 Towson's only win was over the Big South's champion.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What is the alternative?

Spending more money to stay in the CAA and play Georgia State at home?

Go to the NEC and play Saced Heart and Wagner at home?

Joining an America East football conference?

Starting a new Yankee Conference?

The options are there, if the honest discussion wants to really come out.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1593059]The original point being made here was that UMass wants to go to the MAC to "play better football", per Sam Adams. My point being: the CAA RIGHT NOW plays better football than the MAC, and JMU's win over Virginia Tech amply proves that. Despite a multitude of opportunities to do so, no MAC team this year beat a team as good as Virginia Tech.[QUOTE]

Then what does Temple's, who finished 3rd in the MAC East, win over 'Nova mean? That was the fully healthy, defending national champ 'Nova team. The same one that beat Lehigh 35-0 a week later.

Miami(OH) went toe to toe with Florida for 55 minutes. App State didn't last a quarter.

[Bull_In_Exile]

The problem with the MAC is there are schools that care and there are schools that don't or they don't have the people in place to make it work.

NIU, Temple, Ohio, Toledo, Miami(OH), CMU, have the coaches and administrators in place to be successful while Akron, Bowling Green, Ball State, Kent State, Western Michigan, Eastern Michigan and Buffalo can't put it all together.

Like i said, if Umass is committed to making this a success than it will be.

Buffalo is getting there. They have won the conference and had a hard yea adjusting to players and coaches leaving (like CMU this year and Miami for the past couple up to this year.

[danefan]

Joining an America East football conference?

Starting a new Yankee Conference?

The options are there, if the honest discussion wants to really come out.

There are no feasible options.

America East football - the America East has on numerous occasions refused to facilitate its own football league.
New Yankee Conference - who is going to run it and what teams would participate?

[smallcollegefbfan]

[QUOTE=Lehigh Football Nation;1593059]The original point being made here was that UMass wants to go to the MAC to "play better football", per Sam Adams. My point being: the CAA RIGHT NOW plays better football than the MAC, and JMU's win over Virginia Tech amply proves that. Despite a multitude of opportunities to do so, no MAC team this year beat a team as good as Virginia Tech.[QUOTE]

Then what does Temple's, who finished 3rd in the MAC East, win over 'Nova mean? That was the fully healthy, defending national champ 'Nova team. The same one that beat Lehigh 35-0 a week later.

Miami(OH) went toe to toe with Florida for 55 minutes. App State didn't last a quarter.


And you could make the argument that JMU was a trap game. I have no doubt if they played VT again that VT would win by 24-30.

[henfan]

If you wish to invest in the Maine, NU, HU or URI football programs that is up to you. Those schools all decided that playing in the CAA wasn't worth the investment. UMass has made significant investments in its game and training facilities, field, lights etc and it doesn't want to continue to squander that investment doing nothing in the dwindling CAA or following uri on the walk of shame to the NEC. Regardless of the reason, full scholly FCS isn't financially viable for most if not all the schools in NY & New England.

Well, the decision to invest in NE FB programs isn't up to me, UD or the CAA. These are individual decisions that each school must make and some already have.

The schools mentioned didn't decide that playing in the CAA wasn't worth the investment at all. NU dropped FB, not because of anything the CAA did or didn't do, but because they claimed not to have the resources to continue sponsoring the sport... at any level. Ditto HU. Their decision made no sense and was apparently done without much internal deliberation or knowledge by the CAA. Like NU, they aren't sponsoring FB at any level. Rhody has always been a supporter of reduced scholarships and they knew the CAA wasn't going to ever support it. The NEC may be their entre to FB elimination. Maine is still a member of the conference for now.

As for UMass' FB investments, they have hardly been significant. Field surface and lights are bare minimum maintenance. As long as visiting teams are dressing in friggin' trailers in the end zone at McGuirk, we'll have to agree about the "significant" upgrades that have been made.xlolx

FCS FB is indeed a worthy financial investment for many programs in the Northeast and will continue to be long into the future, though most of the schools may not continue sponsoring 63 schollies, given the lack of regional full scholly league options. Of course, that could change if the PL allows FB scholarships.


Absolute 100% Horse manure. The CAA is a VA based league and recently retired Commissioner Yeager never showed any interest in supporting and enhancing the CAA North. The scheduling has been horrid and even after we lost 2 programs, the CAA screwed us on scheduling. I watched the CAA do a terrible job w/scheduling for 10 years. Both the Yankee Conference and the A10 did a better job than CAA has done. And its in some sense understandable, in that the CAA is essentially a Virginia based basketball league. The CAA has done a terrible job of retaining the CAA North and in particular a terrible job of scheduling from the Massachusetts perspective.

How specifically has UMass been screwed on scheduling? By my count, UM had 4 conference home games in 2010 and 3 on road, one of which included a short jaunt to Kingston. Harrisonburg was the only trip UM made of any significant distance and is certainly closer than St. Louis, where UM regularly ships its non-revenue Olympic sport teams.

As I said, I agree with the rationale that might lead UMass to move to the MAC. There's really no need or justification to trash the CAA in the process. There's plenty of good reasons for UMass to reclassify without inventing ridiculous excuses. The CAA has not forced UMass' hand, though decisions made by schools in the region certainly have made the decision a no-brainer.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Not sure if this was posted but these are the current expenditures for football. I grabbed this from the Fordham board. I'm not sure what UB's expenses are not listed.

Temple $10,093,610
Ohio $7,385,482
Central Michigan $7,035,878
Miami (OH) $6,903,977
Northern Illinois $5,955,460
Akron $5,738,172
Toledo $5,536,563
Ball State $5,252,502
Western Michigan $5,065,840
Eastern Michigan $5,037,556
Kent State $4,394,681
UMass $4,332,838
Bowling Green $4,052,175

[Big Al]

UMass-Lowell as wel...D1 Hockey and D2 otherwise.

That's because there is no D-II hockey. You are either scholarship or you aren't.

[NHwildEcat]

That's because there is no D-II hockey. You are either scholarship or you aren't.

That's not true. There are a handful of D2 hockey schools in New England...they all play under the NE-10 conference (same as UML). However, in the near future I would envision those remaining schools having to make choices...up or down.

[danefan]

That's not true. There are a handful of D2 hockey schools in New England...they all play under the NE-10 conference (same as UML). However, in the near future I would envision those remaining schools having to make choices...up or down.

There is no "up" choice unless they're up for everything. Schools can no longer reclassify to DI hockey. And if any of the current DI hockey schools/DIII everything else move down, they cannot come back up unless they come up with everything.

[NHwildEcat]

There is no "up" choice unless they're up for everything. Schools can no longer reclassify to DI hockey. And if any of the current DI hockey schools/DIII everything else move down, they cannot come back up unless they come up with everything.

Is that not a choice? If a hockey program is important to any of those schools to the point where they wanted to move up they could go about the process of moving it all up. As highly unlikely as that is..it is still a choice those schools have.

[danefan]

Is that not a choice? If a hockey program is important to any of those schools to the point where they wanted to move up they could go about the process of moving it all up. As highly unlikely as that is..it is still a choice those schools have.

Yes, you are right - it is a choice. But its not a realistic choice. No school in the country is going to raise its entire athletic program for hockey. its not financially feasible. Schools only raise their entire athletic department to DI for two sports (football and basketball). Hockey for most schools is too expensive at the DI level with little to no revenue support. No big money guarantee games like in football and basketball. No big paycheck from the Frozen Four.

[NHwildEcat]

Yes, you are right - it is a choice. But its not a realistic choice. No school in the country is going to raise its entire athletic program for hockey. its not financially feasible. Schools only raise their entire athletic department to DI for two sports (football and basketball). Hockey for most schools is too expensive at the DI level with little to no revenue support. No big money guarantee games like in football and basketball. No big paycheck from the Frozen Four.

This does raise a question for me that I have some interest on though...I went to SNHU which is one of these D2 schools that we mention above...the hockey program is a joke (they lose by large margins to most of the local D3 schools). Would they be able to drop the hockey team down only...or does the same rule apply that all sports must drop? I'd prefer they just drop the program but I want to know if this is the other option?

[Sam Adams]

Well, the decision to invest in NE FB programs isn't up to me, UD or the CAA. These are individual decisions that each school must make and some already have.

Correct, and so far the participants are all deciding that CAA football in NY & NE is not worth the investment.





The schools mentioned didn't decide that playing in the CAA wasn't worth the investment at all.

False. All of the schools mentioned were or are CAA members who have decided that it no longer makes sense for them to continue to invest in being CAA members. UNH and Maine will be following suit as soon as they can figure out an exit strategy. Meanwhile the geniuses at the CAA continue to blame the individual schools for the fact that their conference is shrinking and losing media markets.


As for UMass' FB investments, they have hardly been significant. Field surface and lights are bare minimum maintenance. As long as visiting teams are dressing in friggin' trailers in the end zone at McGuirk, we'll have to agree about the "significant" upgrades that have been made.xlolx

Brand new field, brand new lights, stadium renovations, new weight rooms, new sound system, new scoreboard, new video board...I guess that is not good for the great CAA which is shrinking and losing market share to NEC. xlolxxlolxxlolx
BTW - Opposing teams dress in locker rooms at the Football Fieldhouse at McGuirk which is due for replacement.



FCS FB is indeed a worthy financial investment for many programs in the Northeast and will continue to be long into the future, though most of the schools may not continue sponsoring 63 schollies, given the lack of regional full scholly league options. Of course, that could change if the PL allows FB scholarships.

You are avoiding the central issue - Name the full scholly FCS programs that you think will exist in NY & NE in the next 3 seasons. What is the CAA's plan to maintain any presence at all in the NE / NY media market? The fact that you are unable to articulate any such programs or plan speaks volumes as to the situation that Massachusetts is in. The CAA has no plan. There will be no NY & NE teams playing full scholly FCS w/in 3 yrs.



How specifically has UMass been screwed on scheduling?

In 2009 the CAA North lost 2 teams. One would think that in response to that disaster, the CAA would have done Everything they cold have ... or at the very least - done SOMETHING to help the remaining CAA North teams such as UMASS in terms of scheduling 2010 home games. Instead the CAA braintrust deemed it wise to gave UMass 1 home game on labor day weekend and then UMass didn't receive another home CAA until NOVEMBER. The peak football months in Amherst MA are September and October. The weather is perfect for football and the incredible fall foliage is peaking. Nevertheless the CAA failed to give UMass ONE SINGLE HOME GAME for the peak two month period between 09/04/10 and 11/06/10. The CAA could not have dreamed up a lousier schedule for UMass if it had tried. Its as if the CAA went out of its way to make sure that UMass had a lousy CAA home football schedule. At the very least the CAA was totally incompetent.



As I said, I agree with the rationale that might lead UMass to move to the MAC. There's really no need or justification to trash the CAA in the process. There's plenty of good reasons for UMass to reclassify without inventing ridiculous excuses. The CAA has not forced UMass' hand, though decisions made by schools in the region certainly have made the decision a no-brainer.

The facts are that the CAA North is disappearing. Saying so isn't "trashing" the CAA. The facts are that the CAA schedule for UMass in 2010 was absurd. Saying so isn't "trashing" the CAA. I love CAA football and I wish it made sense for UMass to not change conferences. But it just doesn't make sense to hang around doing nothing given the shifting landscape in college football generally (& FCS Ny & NE specifically) and you are presented w/an opportunity to hopefully improve your program. The CAA is in the process of disappearing in NE & NY. Its too bad, but its foolish to pretend otherwise.

[Old Cage]

Sam - You are right on target. Keep it up. The few times that I have mumbled here over the last three years that I can't wait for us to leave the CAA, I have been bashed. The CAA has been moving South and south, and that is not news. I have been around the UMass scene since 1958, and that is the worst scheduling in all those years. We didn't win either one, but thankfully we had the trips to the Big House and Gillette to placate our fans.