Would Assumption College Be A Good PL Candidate?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The Northeast-10 is a 12-team conference, featuring a hybrid of state schools (Southern Connecticut, Southern New Hampshire), large, unique private schools (Pace) and, well, Patriot League-type schools. With Assumption's win over Fordham it got me thinking: might it be a candidate for the Patriot League?

Pluses:
* Small, liberal-arts school, 2,100 undergrads, so good match for Lafayette in terms of size
* Catholic institution, good match with Georgetown, Fordham, Holy Cross
* Sponsors 23 sports, many more than the D-I minimum
* Gives Holy Cross an in-town "rivalry" and a Mass. travel partner, guarantees a PL trip to Worcester/Mass. every year

Minuses:
* Does not expand the PL footprint, Worcester is already a PL town
* Accepts 68.8% of applicants, would need to get up to a 50% Fordham-type level
* Would need to transition to D-I, so unable to compete for championships until 2016
* Stadium: While it's a new stadium (and hosts six sports), it only supports 1,200 fans:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg/800px-Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg

In a world where PL folks complain that there are no good candidates for membership, Assumption at least deserves a look, I think.

[Franks Tanks]

The Northeast-10 is a 12-team conference, featuring a hybrid of state schools (Southern Connecticut, Southern New Hampshire), large, unique private schools (Pace) and, well, Patriot League-type schools. With Assumption's win over Fordham it got me thinking: might it be a candidate for the Patriot League?

Pluses:
* Small, liberal-arts school, 2,100 undergrads, so good match for Lafayette in terms of size
* Catholic institution, good match with Georgetown, Fordham, Holy Cross
* Sponsors 23 sports, many more than the D-I minimum
* Gives Holy Cross an in-town "rivalry" and a Mass. travel partner, guarantees a PL trip to Worcester/Mass. every year

Minuses:
* Does not expand the PL footprint, Worcester is already a PL town
* Accepts 68.8% of applicants, would need to get up to a 50% Fordham-type level
* Would need to transition to D-I, so unable to compete for championships until 2016
* Stadium: While it's a new stadium (and hosts six sports), it only supports 1,200 fans:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg/800px-Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg

In a world where PL folks complain that there are no good candidates for membership, Assumption at least deserves a look, I think.




Might as well include Gettysburg in this discussion if we are going to talk about Assumption. If we apparently said no to Bryant why would the PL powers that be want Assumption?

[Bogus Megapardus]

why would the PL powers that be want Assumption?

Because we need a Worcester-area replacement when Holy Cross finally moves to the Big East. Sheeeh. Don't you guys read anything?

As for Gettysburg, they knew full well they were invited to tag along 30 years ago. Why they chose not to is beyond me.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Might as well include Gettysburg in this discussion if we are going to talk about Assumption. If we apparently said no to Bryant why would the PL powers that be want Assumption?

A fair point - and Gettysburg would be a great choice (not least because convincing my wife to take a trip to Gettysburg every two years would be a very easy sell :) ).

Assumption's football team, however, has proven that it can run with D-I teams in the Northeast (4-0, wins vs. Fordham and Wagner), while the Bullets are 1-2, winless in the Centennial Conference and can't beat teams like Muhlenberg. Obviously, there wouldn't be an issue of competition with Assumption that there might be with Gettysburg.

Having a head coach from Fordham also can't hurt their chances.

[GannonFan]

Maybe Swarthmore can bring their program back and take a crack at the PL? :)

[Franks Tanks]

Because we need a Worcester-area replacement when Holy Cross finally moves to the Big East. Sheeeh. Don't you guys read anything?

As for Gettysburg, they knew full well they were invited to tag along 30 years ago. Why they chose not to is beyond me.

Good one!

Gettysburg is of course D-III, but they could easily upgrade their program to PL level if they had the desire. Gettysburg fits in with PL schools and as many know is a tremendous place to visit or spend your college years. They would also be a tremendous addition to PL Lacrosse.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I propose adding Muhlenberg College, Moravian College and DeSales University to the Patriot League.

Pros:



- Each are small, private liberal arts institutions that will ensure perpetuation of the Patriot tradition of having a small student body, a limited group of living alumni and a miniscule fan base with a shrinking interest in weekend football.

- DeSales' strong Catholic identity will strengthen desired religious homogeneity within the league.

- All three institutions are in the Lehigh Valley so five of the member schools can be reached within ten minutes of one another using an LVTA discount off-peak bus pass.

- DeSales is actually in Center Valley, Pennsylvania, home of the Patriot League offices. The league won't have to play favorites with Lehigh any longer.

Cons:




- DeSales is doesn’t actually have a football team (but neither did Georgetown until this year).

- Muhlenberg and Moravian are in Division III so they'd have to raise their ticket prices by two dollars and get some stretchy vinyl graphics for their bleachers to move up to Patriot League-style Division I football.

- Fans and players at Holy Cross, who to my knowledge have never been heard to complain about "those long, dark, horrific bus trips to middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania," might raise an eyebrow once the population of Lehigh Valley colleges in the league has been increased to five.

- Muhlenberg is full of left-wing commies who likely will object to associating with anything called, "Patriot."

[PhoenixSupreme]

You have to consider the college's side of the story. By proposing this, you made the "Assumption" that they are not happy in their current conference.

(So sorry, couldn't resist :D)

[colorless raider]

I quit if they come into the league. JEEZ

[aust42]

There is a school named "Assumption College"?

[Franks Tanks]

There is a school named "Assumption College"?


Its a Catholic College, and it refers to the Assumption of Mary (I would think).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assumption_of_Mary

[Go...gate]

I quit if they come into the league. JEEZ

Ditto. Gettysburg would be fine, however.

[ngineer]

Because we need a Worcester-area replacement when Holy Cross finally moves to the Big East. Sheeeh. Don't you guys read anything?

As for Gettysburg, they knew full well they were invited to tag along 30 years ago. Why they chose not to is beyond me.

Good one!!xlolxxlolx

[ngineer]

I propose adding Muhlenberg College, Moravian College and DeSales University to the Patriot League.

Pros:



- Each are small, private liberal arts institutions that will ensure perpetuation of the Patriot tradition of having a small student body, a limited group of living alumni and a miniscule fan base with a shrinking interest in weekend football.

- DeSales' strong Catholic identity will strengthen desired religious homogeneity within the league.

- All three institutions are in the Lehigh Valley so five of the member schools can be reached within ten minutes of one another using an LVTA discount off-peak bus pass.

- DeSales is actually in Center Valley, Pennsylvania, home of the Patriot League offices. The league won't have to play favorites with Lehigh any longer.

Cons:




- DeSales is doesn’t actually have a football team (but neither did Georgetown until this year).

- Muhlenberg and Moravian are in Division III so they'd have to raise their ticket prices by two dollars and get some stretchy vinyl graphics for their bleachers to move up to Patriot League-style Division I football.

- Fans and players at Holy Cross, who to my knowledge have never been heard to complain about "those long, dark, horrific bus trips to middle-of-nowhere Pennsylvania," might raise an eyebrow once the population of Lehigh Valley colleges in the league has been increased to five.

- Muhlenberg is full of left-wing commies who likely will object to associating with anything called, "Patriot."



Bogus..do you have a job? You're on a roll!

[ngineer]

If any D-III school would want to expand its football and transition to the PL, Johns Hopkins would be my first choice. I saw them maul Moravian on Saturday (actually, left at halftime it was so bad).

[Franks Tanks]

Moravian is pretty bad.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is a big difference between AC and Gettysburg, Moravian, Muhlenberg, and the funny teams folks are floating here. Gettysburg is D-III, doesn't offer any scholarships and is proud of it. AC is Division II, offers scholarships and is a lot further towards D-I than any of those other schools - not least because you'd need two transition periods, from D-III to D-II and then D-II to D-I. If we wanted Gettysburg to go to the PL, we'd be waiting until 2022 at best.

[NHwildEcat]

The Northeast-10 is a 12-team conference, featuring a hybrid of state schools (Southern Connecticut, Southern New Hampshire), large, unique private schools (Pace) and, well, Patriot League-type schools. With Assumption's win over Fordham it got me thinking: might it be a candidate for the Patriot League?

Pluses:
* Small, liberal-arts school, 2,100 undergrads, so good match for Lafayette in terms of size
* Catholic institution, good match with Georgetown, Fordham, Holy Cross
* Sponsors 23 sports, many more than the D-I minimum
* Gives Holy Cross an in-town "rivalry" and a Mass. travel partner, guarantees a PL trip to Worcester/Mass. every year

Minuses:
* Does not expand the PL footprint, Worcester is already a PL town
* Accepts 68.8% of applicants, would need to get up to a 50% Fordham-type level
* Would need to transition to D-I, so unable to compete for championships until 2016
* Stadium: While it's a new stadium (and hosts six sports), it only supports 1,200 fans:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg/800px-Assumption_College_Multi-Sport_Stadium.jpg

In a world where PL folks complain that there are no good candidates for membership, Assumption at least deserves a look, I think.

Just want to state for the record Southern New Hampshire is a private school, not a state school.

[CrusaderBob]

Moravian is pretty bad.

You mean that's a college??

I thought Moravia was the Eastern European country where American U gets all those basketball players - complete with neck bolts.

[PantherRob82]

I was confused when ESPN's scoreboard said FORD was getting beaten by ***

[Bogus Megapardus]

If any D-III school would want to expand its football and transition to the PL, Johns Hopkins would be my first choice. I saw them maul Moravian on Saturday (actually, left at halftime it was so bad).

Johns Hopkins - the very thing the Dayton Rule was designed to prevent. They should be all sports in DI or drop lacrosse to DIII. If you're going to "grandfather" the program, then make them use the same budget an facilities they had in 1981 (or whenever). You can't spend millions every year on scholarships and facilities for a nationally-recognized lacrosse program and pretend that doesn't carry over to football.

As for Swiftian Proposal to add three Lehigh Valley colleges, I "assume" eveyone knows that was tounge-in-cheek, right?

[Bogus Megapardus]

There is a big difference between AC and Gettysburg, Moravian, Muhlenberg, and the funny teams folks are floating here. Gettysburg is D-III, doesn't offer any scholarships and is proud of it. AC is Division II, offers scholarships and is a lot further towards D-I than any of those other schools - not least because you'd need two transition periods, from D-III to D-II and then D-II to D-I. If we wanted Gettysburg to go to the PL, we'd be waiting until 2022 at best.

Johns Hopkins is a national powerhouse in full scholarship Division I men's and women's lacrosse. The Blue Jays have a grandfathered exemption to the Dayton Rule. Can Johns Hopkins hitch all other sports to its DI lacrosse wagon without going through the transition period?

[TheValleyRaider]

You mean that's a college??

I thought Moravia was the Eastern European country where American U gets all those basketball players - complete with neck bolts.

Why am I not surprised a Holy Cross guy turned in the basketball reference? xlolx xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

You mean that's a college??

I thought Moravia was the Eastern European country where American U gets all those basketball players - complete with neck bolts.

Yup, Moravian College in Bethlehem PA. The Moravian Religion is a Protestant demoniation that sprung from the Moravia region, which I believe is now part of the Czech Republic (or maybe not). They settled in the PA wilderness for religious freedom and found Bethlehem. They also started the college.

Their Football team stinks. Maybe we should try to sneak in a game with them this year.

[DFW HOYA]

The Pennsylvania..., er, Patriot League:

Lehigh
Lafayette
Bucknell
Moravian
Gettysburg
St. Francis
Susquehanna
Franklin & Marshall

Somewhere, Arthur Rothkopf would be pleased. Fans, however, would not be.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Johns Hopkins is a national powerhouse in full scholarship Division I men's and women's lacrosse. The Blue Jays have a grandfathered exemption to the Dayton Rule. Can Johns Hopkins hitch all other sports to its DI lacrosse wagon without going through the transition period?

I agree. You also, however, run afoul of the RPI and Minnesota/Mankato hockey crowd, too, which enjoy the exemption to play "non-revenue" sports like lacrosse and hockey, when they are the furthest things from non-revenue. If it were limited to JHU and some outlying sports, that's one thing, but there is a lot more at play.

[jimbo65]

You mean that's a college??

I thought Moravia was the Eastern European country where American U gets all those basketball players - complete with neck bolts.
I think Dracula came from Moravia so watch out.

[CrusaderBob]

Why am I not surprised a Holy Cross guy turned in the basketball reference? xlolx xlolx

Hey. We talk plenty of football on our board and several of us actually contribute here - whether you like it or not! xlolx

You want a basketball-centric school ... the Bucknell fans have one thread for football and they cover the entire season on it! And the Bucknell board is actually hosted on a site called Basketball-U!!! xnodx

Why do you think Ken Z is here so much???

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think Dracula came from Moravia so watch out.

A very underrated running back.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bucknell fans have one thread for football and they cover the entire season on it! And the Bucknell board is actually hosted on a site called Basketball-U!!!

More than that, I think the Patriot is the only conference without an active message board of its own. That's why we end up with threads like this on AGS.

[holycrossC]

The PL has it's head up it's wazoo, Bryant wanted to join but the PL didn't want them.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

UNION COLLEGE, Schenectady, NY. Former NESCAC school tossed out because they got too serious about sports. DI hockey and D3 in all other sports, but sports are taken very seriously.

Excellent academics, they LOVE their athletes, Stadium could be expanded to close to 10K, would represent an expansion into metro Albany area for PL. Union was first school to combine the disciplines of engineering and liberal arts.

Union features a beautiful campus. .... and -- in the spirit of Lafayette and Lehigh -- it's even located in the midst of a very bad city! xsmiley_wix

[Go...gate]

UNION COLLEGE, Schenectady, NY. Former NESCAC school tossed out because they got too serious about sports. DI hockey and D3 in all other sports, but sports are taken very seriously.

Excellent academics, they LOVE their athletes, Stadium could be expanded to close to 10K, would represent an expansion into metro Albany area for PL. Union was first school to combine the disciplines of engineering and liberal arts.

Union features a beautiful campus. .... and -- in the spirit of Lafayette and Lehigh -- it's even located in the midst of a very bad city! xsmiley_wix

Union would be an excellent choice. It is a well-regarded old school right in the PL footprint. Never knew they got thrown out of the NESCAC, though.

[Go...gate]

The PL has it's head up it's wazoo, Bryant wanted to join but the PL didn't want them.

Regrettably, the PL has done that to more than one school that wanted to join the loop. Hofstra immediately comes to mind. Others would add Marist.

[DFW HOYA]

Regrettably, the PL has done that to more than one school that wanted to join the loop. Hofstra immediately comes to mind. Others would add Marist.

The PL could have had Duquesne and passed. Same for Fairfield, with a better academic footprint than Duquesne, but after the PL passed, the Stags' football progam was not long for this world.

But would either associate member pass muster under similar criteria today?

Georgetown:

Not spending enough on football
No facilities
Not a small liberal arts college
No interest in joining as all-sports member


Fordham:

Spending too much on football
Academics at bottom of AI standards
Not a small liberal arts college
No interest in joining as all-sports member



Union was first school to combine the disciplines of engineering and liberal arts.
As opposed to whom, Princeton (1746)?

[Franks Tanks]

The PL has it's head up it's wazoo, Bryant wanted to join but the PL didn't want them.

Many Holy Cross fans were very unhappy with the prospect of associating with Bryant IIRC.

[Franks Tanks]

UNION COLLEGE, Schenectady, NY. Former NESCAC school tossed out because they got too serious about sports. DI hockey and D3 in all other sports, but sports are taken very seriously.

Excellent academics, they LOVE their athletes, Stadium could be expanded to close to 10K, would represent an expansion into metro Albany area for PL. Union was first school to combine the disciplines of engineering and liberal arts.

Union features a beautiful campus. .... and -- in the spirit of Lafayette and Lehigh -- it's even located in the midst of a very bad city! xsmiley_wix

Not every school is lucky enough to be located in hotspots like Hamilton, NY and Worschester, Mass.

[letsgopards04]

Not every school is lucky enough to be located in hotspots like Hamilton, NY and Worschester, Mass.

Or the Bronx with bars on your window.

[danefan]

UNION COLLEGE, Schenectady, NY. Former NESCAC school tossed out because they got too serious about sports. DI hockey and D3 in all other sports, but sports are taken very seriously.

Excellent academics, they LOVE their athletes, Stadium could be expanded to close to 10K, would represent an expansion into metro Albany area for PL. Union was first school to combine the disciplines of engineering and liberal arts.

Union features a beautiful campus. .... and -- in the spirit of Lafayette and Lehigh -- it's even located in the midst of a very bad city! xsmiley_wix

If the PL is looking to the Albany area, RPI has got to be higher on the list then Union. Better football lately and their facilities are probably top 5 DIII facilities in the country.

http://chronicle.com/img/photos/biz/rpi402x267.jpg

[Bogus Megapardus]

UNION COLLEGE, Schenectady, NY . . . .
Union features a beautiful campus. .... and -- in the spirit of Lafayette and Lehigh -- it's even located in the midst of a very bad city!

I'm a native of Schenectady. It's actually a decent place to live and it has the Adirondacks at its front door. Union is in the "stockade" section which is quite nice. Pretty sure that Union left NESCAC way back when (replaced by Connecticut College) because Union wanted to play big boy hockey.


If the PL is looking to the Albany area, RPI has got to be higher on the list then Union.

It would definitely be RPI. But RPI has a very long rivalry with Union that they would not want to give up. RPI has a huge endowment and it's an engineering undergrad college like Bucknell/Lafayette/Lehigh. Along with Hopkins, it's the best Patriot fit, in a perfect world.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It would definitely be RPI. But RPI has a very long rivalry with Union that they would not want to give up. RPI has a huge endowment and it's an engineering undergrad college like Bucknell/Lafayette/Lehigh. Along with Hopkins, it's the best Patriot fit, in a perfect world.

True. However, in our real, imperfect world, the earliest any D-III school could become a full, championship-playing PL member is 2022 (going from D-III to D-II for five year transition, then D-II to D-I for five-year transition).

Circularly, with the exemption for one D-I sport not named football or men's basketball but D-III everywhere else (hockey, lacrosse), there is almost zero incentive for these schools to move up, especially with such a long moratorium. They enjoy the benefits of D-I athletics for one sport, while chintz on everything else. Title IX concerns? What's that?

If the NCAA forced these schools into one or the other, they'd almost certainly move their sports to D-I, even if it did take ten years to really do it. But as long as the NCAA is willing to let these schools pretend they're really D-III and not have them really worry about Title IX, there's zero reason for them to do so.

[danefan]

I'm a native of Schenectady. It's actually a decent place to live and it has the Adirondacks at its front door. Union is in the "stockade" section which is quite nice. Pretty sure that Union left NESCAC way back when (replaced by Connecticut College) because Union wanted to play big boy hockey.



It would definitely be RPI. But RPI has a very long rivalry with Union that they would not want to give up. RPI has a huge endowment and it's an engineering undergrad college like Bucknell/Lafayette/Lehigh. Along with Hopkins, it's the best Patriot fit, in a perfect world.

The rivalry is really for hockey which they wouldn't have to give up. The football rivalry is second fiddle for sure.

[Bogus Megapardus]

True. However, in our real, imperfect world, the earliest any D-III school could become a full, championship-playing PL member is 2022 (going from D-III to D-II for five year transition, then D-II to D-I for five-year transition).



But would this dual transition period be applied to schools that already play a full scholarship Division I sport for both men and women? There's already a default provision that moves those sports down permanently if they fail to compete in Division I in any given year. Would provision that "encourages" all sports to move up permanently be too difficult a thing to imagine?

I concede that it's a fantasy world but the upgrade for those two schools, financially and in terms of attracting top shelf student-athletes, would be very easy.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But would this dual transition period be applied to schools that already play a full scholarship Division I sport for both men and women? There's already a default provision that moves those sports down permanently if they fail to compete in Division I in any given year. Would provision that "encourages" all sports to move up permanently be too difficult a thing to imagine?

I concede that it's a fantasy world but the upgrade for those two schools, financially and in terms of attracting top shelf student-athletes, would be very easy.

I agree wholeheartedly that any upgrade could be done easily. But the NCAA would have to make an exemption for these schools - and make it clear it's a "here it is, do it now, or never" situation. It could happen, I just don't think it's on the radar right now.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The rivalry is really for hockey which they wouldn't have to give up. The football rivalry is second fiddle for sure.

"The Dutchman's Shoes is a trophy awarded to the winner of the annual college football game between the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Engineers and the Union College Dutchmen. As of the end of 2009, these two schools have played each other 107 times."

The real problem might be whether or not Lafayette and Lehigh want anybody to steal their thunder.

[LUHawker]

I'm a native of Schenectady. It's actually a decent place to live and it has the Adirondacks at its front door. Union is in the "stockade" section which is quite nice. Pretty sure that Union left NESCAC way back when (replaced by Connecticut College) because Union wanted to play big boy hockey.



It would definitely be RPI. But RPI has a very long rivalry with Union that they would not want to give up. RPI has a huge endowment and it's an engineering undergrad college like Bucknell/Lafayette/Lehigh. Along with Hopkins, it's the best Patriot fit, in a perfect world.

I say bring in RPI and Union. Implement schollies for existing schools and allow build of schollies and transition over the requisite period.

[MR. CHICKEN]

AH...ASSUME SO........xrotatehx.....BRAWK!!

[downbythebeach]

I'd have to say that Duquesne is about as good of a candidate as your are going to realistically get. They might be a bit far west, but academically they're on par, athletics wise they would fit pretty well, but I'm not sure they would wanna leave the A10, despite the fact they haven't done too much in years.

[ngineer]

I'd have to say that Duquesne is about as good of a candidate as your are going to realistically get. They might be a bit far west, but academically they're on par, athletics wise they would fit pretty well, but I'm not sure they would wanna leave the A10, despite the fact they haven't done too much in years.

Duquesne does not fit the PL profile that well. Recent admissions data showed that they had around a 70% admissions rate, which is more that double than most of the PL schools. Johns Hopkins and RPI are much more within the profile, and that is what will drive a decision by the Presidents of the schools.

[ngineer]

"The Dutchman's Shoes is a trophy awarded to the winner of the annual college football game between the Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute Engineers and the Union College Dutchmen. As of the end of 2009, these two schools have played each other 107 times."

The real problem might be whether or not Lafayette and Lehigh want anybody to steal their thunder.

I don't see the "Dutchmen's shoes" stealing our thunder. I wasn't even aware of that tradition. Actually, another hoary tradition in the league wouldn't be bad.

[ngineer]

Yup, Moravian College in Bethlehem PA. The Moravian Religion is a Protestant demoniation that sprung from the Moravia region, which I believe is now part of the Czech Republic (or maybe not). They settled in the PA wilderness for religious freedom and found Bethlehem. They also started the college.

Their Football team stinks. Maybe we should try to sneak in a game with them this year.

Yes, Moravian, I think, is the 6th oldest college in the US founded not long after the Moravians settled Bethlehem in 1741. You are correct the Moravians orginated in what is now the northern region of the Czech Republic. During persecution in the 1400-1500's, (Jan Hus is considered the "Father" of the Moravian denomination) they went over into southern Germany and found sanctuary. Eventually, a German count Von Zinzindorf, who provided them sanctuary, became their 'patron' and accompanied them to America. Education was always paramount with them, hence the quick establishment of schools and a college so soon after coming here. Unfortunately, the football team has not done too well of late. The Greyhounds got pummeled by Johns Hopkins 41-3, and it wasn't that close. Not too long ago they were in post-season play. Their head coach, Scot Dapp, is a good guy and was actually President of the NFCA (National Football Coaches' Association) a few years ago. Carry on....xreadx

[wr70beh]

I agree. You also, however, run afoul of the RPI and Minnesota/Mankato hockey crowd, too, which enjoy the exemption to play "non-revenue" sports like lacrosse and hockey, when they are the furthest things from non-revenue. If it were limited to JHU and some outlying sports, that's one thing, but there is a lot more at play.

Don't forget all of those D2 GLIAC schools like Ferris St. and Lake Superior St. who enjoy playing with the big boys in hockey and playing the little guys in other sports (although playing Grand Valley St. every year is kind of like playing a D1 school)

[ngineer]

Don't forget all of those D2 GLIAC schools like Ferris St. and Lake Superior St. who enjoy playing with the big boys in hockey and playing the little guys in other sports (although playing Grand Valley St. every year is kind of like playing a D1 school)

That's the school with al the 'big wheels'?

xsmiley_wix

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

As opposed to whom, Princeton (1746)?

Union is not as old -- circa 1795 vs 1746. However, some puffery from the school's website:

When the classics were considered the only acceptable field of study, we introduced a bachelor's degree with an emphasis on history, modern languages, science and mathematics. We were the first liberal arts college in the nation to offer engineering, and we are leaders in the integration of science and engineering with the humanities, arts, and social sciences to give students a broad set of skills that will prepare them for a global society.

... and, sorry, while Schenectady may be at the gateway to the Adirondacks, it is most definitely not an overly esthetically pleasing community. Union is located on the fringe of an area which does get nicer for a stretch as you head back towards I-87. The Stockade District is impressive, but it represents only a small section of an otherwise discouraging cityscape. I will give city fathers an E for effort in trying to make a difference, .... xpeacex