Keeler implies JMU started an arms race in the CAA

[BDKJMU]

"...I think what James Madison is doing has gotten everyone's attention," said Keeler, referring to the just-begun $62 million renovation of Bridgeforth Stadium on JMU's Harrisonburg, Va., campus, and other state-of-the-art facilities there.

"You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus [opening next season] and we're responding trying to put a plan together of our own...."

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091204/SPORTS07/912040353/Hofstra+drops+football+program

Its actually a reported 52 million expansion...

Here are the CAA upgrades 03'-2011" (all in the South):
-Towson with their renovated 11k Johnny Unitas Stadium and 48k sq foot Field House (finished 03').
-JMU with their 10 million Plecker Athletic Center opened in 05'.
-W&M with their similar 11 million Laycock Center opened last year.
-ODU in its 1st season of football selling out every game in the newly renovated (25 million) 20k capacity SB Ballard Stadium at Foreman Field.
-UR opens a new albeit small stadium on campus next season.
-JMU undertaking a 52 million stadium expansion to be completed by 2011'.
-Ga State starting their 1st season of football next season and CAA play in the GA Dome in 2012.

But its not like JMU started the above. Towson was the 1st one with a nice new Field House. If JMU hadn't built the Plecker Center or started a stadium expansion, its not like any of the other schools wouldn't have done any ofthe above projects. So Keeler saying "You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus.." is really BS.

[Sader87]

Why doesn't the CAA just go 1-A and get it over with?

[JMUNJ08]

Why doesn't the CAA just go 1-A and get it over with?

We are having too much funxlolx

[GeeWiz]

"...I think what James Madison is doing has gotten everyone's attention," said Keeler, referring to the just-begun $62 million renovation of Bridgeforth Stadium on JMU's Harrisonburg, Va., campus, and other state-of-the-art facilities there.

"You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus [opening next season] and we're responding trying to put a plan together of our own...."

Here are the CAA upgrades 03'-2011" (all in the South):
-Towson with their renovated 11k Johnny Unitas Stadium and 48k sq foot Field House (finished 03').
-JMU with their 10 million Plecker Athletic Center opened in 05'.
-W&M with their similar 11 million Laycock Center opened last year.
-ODU in its 1st season of football selling out every game in the newly renovated (25 million) 20k capacity Oyster Bowl in Norfolk.
-UR opens a new albeit small stadium on campus next season.
-JMU undertaking a 52 million stadium expansion to be completed by 2011'.
-Ga State starting their 1st season of football next season and CAA play in the GA Dome in 2012.

All of the above is the reason why we dropped football ... :(

We can't compete with that.

[Bogus Megapardus]

We are having too much funxlolx

Sure, it's a barrel of fun when you can just keep raising everyone's taxes to pay for it all:

http://dpb.virginia.gov/Budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vTable=C&vBiennium=2006-2008&vSecretary=Educa&vSort=N

Hats of to Richmond for its properly-scaled, modest project financed through private donations. The rest of you might consider a touch of humility once in a while. But why not laugh when you're having so much fun at the taxpayers' expense, I suppose . . . .

[AAadict]

Towson built their stadium for lacrosse. I know they named the stadium after Louiville alum Johnny U. Lacrosse is bigger than FB at Towson and is usally competes with the top teams in the country. I think if Lax wanted to practice they could kick FB off the field.

[AAadict]

Why doesn't the CAA just go 1-A and get it over with?

Or some FCS teams might consider Improving DII ranks...

[Bogus Megapardus]

Or some FCS teams might consider Improving DII ranks...

Former DII Delaware might be a good prospect for that. Unlike Delaware, Holy Cross was never DII.

[tribe_pride]

Sure, it's a barrel of fun when you can just keep raising everyone's taxes to pay for it all:

http://dpb.virginia.gov/Budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vTable=C&vBiennium=2006-2008&vSecretary=Educa&vSort=N

Hats of to Richmond for its properly-scaled, modest project financed through private donations. The rest of you might consider a touch of humility once in a while. But why not laugh when you're having so much fun at the taxpayers' expense, I suppose . . . .

Read this link before you make that comment about the Laycock Center:

http://www.wm.edu/giving/features/laycockcenter.php


In fact, the Laycock Center, which cost $11 million to construct, was funded entirely by generous private gifts.

Whether this is true for the other schools, I do not know but don't rip the Tribe for using public dollars for this when it is not true.

[jmu007]

Sure, it's a barrel of fun when you can just keep raising everyone's taxes to pay for it all:

http://dpb.virginia.gov/Budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vTable=C&vBiennium=2006-2008&vSecretary=Educa&vSort=N

Hats of to Richmond for its properly-scaled, modest project financed through private donations. The rest of you might consider a touch of humility once in a while. But why not laugh when you're having so much fun at the taxpayers' expense, I suppose . . . .

I would rather pay for a nice stadium that will actually be used, than live in some weenie town that can't fill a stadium for the playoffs. Way to suck it up S. Illinois/Richmond. ('Nova gets a bye due to blizzard)

[Bogus Megapardus]

In fact, the Laycock Center, which cost $11 million to construct, was funded entirely by generous private gifts.

You are correct. The $4.5 million budgeted in FY 2006 to "improve intercollegiate athletic facilities" at W&M was not earmarked for the Laycock Center, and went to other facility improvements. The $9,150,000 in tax money in FY 2003 was budgeted for W&M recreational and sports facilities in general, and not to any specific project. I agree that W&M is budgeted and operated, overall, much more like a private college.

Contrast this to the $50 million in taxes budgeted in FY 2007-08 on Bridgeforth Stadium alone - Just so JMU fans can literally laugh at others for not having equal facilities? I can think of a bunch of people at Hofstra and Northeastern who have a right to be plenty ticked off right now. ODU is next on my list . . . .

[Bogus Megapardus]

I would rather pay for a nice stadium that will actually be used, than live in some weenie town that can't fill a stadium for the playoffs. Way to suck it up S. Illinois/Richmond. ('Nova gets a bye due to blizzard)

I live in Princeton, NJ. If you think Princeton is some "weenie little town," I suppose that's your opinion. What other places containing Division 1 institutions are, in your opinion, "weenie little towns?" Durham, NH? Hamilton, NY? Kingston, RI? Boone, NC? Plenty of people in those places might differ with your characterization.

[tribe_pride]

I live in Princeton, NJ. If you think Princeton is some "weenie little town," I suppose that's your opinion. What other places containing Division 1 institutions are, in your opinion, "weenie little towns?" Durham, NH? Hamilton, NY? Kingston, RI? Boone, NC? Plenty of people in those places might differ with your characterization.

I think what he was saying was that JMU's locals are supporting the stadium builds because they actually go to the games, especially during the playoffs. The "weenie little towns" are those that can't fill a stadium even in the playoffs. He gave Nova a pass because that weather should have discouraged everyone from going to the game. He definitely is not defining Boone as a "weenie little town."

Not saying I agree or disagree but that is what he meant

[93henfan]

As excruciating as it has been, as a Hens fan, to sit and wait to see what will be done with my contributions to the UDAF, I'm also sort of glad that the University has waited for the other schools to show their hand first and then hired HOK to put together a plan that will put us back ahead in the CAA arms race.

We saw a rudimentary plan last year, with few specifics other than a new stadium and athletic performance center. So many things have changed in the last year though (new AD, acquisition of 700+ acres across the street from the current athletic complex) that it appears that plan has undergone major revision, including relocation of the athletic performance center to the north end zone of current Delaware Stadium, which would imply a rebuilt Tub instead of a relocated one. KC implied in his final radio show this year that he has seen the plans and they are jaw dropping, but we shall see... and hopefully soon. The UDAF pulled in a few million last year, but that will drop after a second year with no playoffs if they don't dangle a carrot in front of us.

[kdinva]

The New Hampshire program deserves at least a 16,000 seat stadium. When will that happen?

[doolittledog]

I think it would be nice for the CAA to stay in FCS with all these nice facilities, than to go FBS and become what the Sun Belt Conference has become.

[Dignan]

I think it would be nice for the CAA to stay in FCS with all these nice facilities, than to go FBS and become what the Sun Belt Conference has become.

Agreed. If there were some way to move up and stay relevant, I'd support it. But if not, I'd much prefer to stick around in FCS.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Agreed. If there were some way to move up and stay relevant, I'd support it. But if not, I'd much prefer to stick around in FCS.

And once a quarter of a billion in public taxpayer dollars is spent "improving" CAA football to make it "more competitive" in the FCS, whom will you play? If the answer is, "we'll play our CAA schedule plus a couple of FBS teams," then it's time to move to the FBS.

[tribe_pride]

The CAA as a conference is not in a position to move up. Those that could would be

ODU (future member with rumored want to move up)
GSU (future member with rumored want to move up)
Delaware
JMU
UMASS
Villanova (need the attendance support but they do have the Big East ties already like UConn did but would need much more support)

Of that group I don't see JMU, Delaware or UMass moving up unless they could get in to a relevant (BCS) conference. VIllanova already has that opportunity. GSU (and maybe ODU) sounds like we are just a stepping stone to FBS play no matter what

No way for:
Towson
UNH
W&M
Richmond
Maine
URI

[blueballs]

The CAA as a conference is not in a position to move up. Those that could would be

ODU (future member with rumored want to move up)
GSU (future member with rumored want to move up)
Delaware
JMU
UMASS
Villanova (need the attendance support but they do have the Big East ties already like UConn did but would need much more support)

Of that group I don't see JMU, Delaware or UMass moving up unless they could get in to a relevant (BCS) conference. VIllanova already has that opportunity. GSU (and maybe ODU) sounds like we are just a stepping stone to FBS play no matter what

No way for:
Towson
UNH
W&M
Richmond
Maine
URI

GSU ain't moving to the CAAxrulesx, Georgia State on the other hand...

[whitey]

Contrast this to the $50 million in taxes budgeted in FY 2007-08 on Bridgeforth Stadium alone - Just so JMU fans can literally laugh at others for not having equal facilities?

Just because $50m is budgeted doesn't mean $50m is coming directly from the Virginia tax fund. IIRC at least 20% of the money budgeted to expand Bridgeforth is coming from private donations. But yeah, you are clearly correct. The sole reason JMU is expanding the stadium is so we can laugh at everyone else in the conference. Give me a break.

[DTSpider]

Villanova was not a founding member of the Big East - so no ties like UConn had. The Big East had to accept UConn, they do not have to accept Nova.

[tribe_pride]

Then move Villanova to the no chance in hell group.

[jmu007]

I think what he was saying was that JMU's locals are supporting the stadium builds because they actually go to the games, especially during the playoffs. The "weenie little towns" are those that can't fill a stadium even in the playoffs. He gave Nova a pass because that weather should have discouraged everyone from going to the game. He definitely is not defining Boone as a "weenie little town."

Not saying I agree or disagree but that is what he meant

You nailed it. That was the intent of the post.

PS: Go tribe next week!xpeacex

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just because $50m is budgeted doesn't mean $50m is coming directly from the Virginia tax fund. IIRC at least 20% of the money budgeted to expand Bridgeforth is coming from private donations. But yeah, you are clearly correct. The sole reason JMU is expanding the stadium is so we can laugh at everyone else in the conference. Give me a break.

As I read it, the total is $62 million. $12 million in "existing" JMU funds (private donations; cash reserves, athletic budget, etc.) and $50 million from public sources. If you're fortunate enough to live in Virginia, be affiliated with JMU and can get away with this sort of thing, then more power to you. What incensed me was an earlier post suggesting that it was all "so much fun," particularly when it comes at the expense of two private CAA members, Northeastern and Hofstra, who have lost their teams because they don't get to have "fun" that way. So, no - you give me a break.

[jmu007]

As I read it, the total is $62 million. $12 million in "existing" JMU funds (private donations; cash reserves, athletic budget, etc.) and $50 million from public sources. If you're fortunate enough to live in Virginia, be affiliated with JMU and can get away with this sort of thing, then more power to you. What incensed me was an earlier post suggesting that it was all "so much fun," particularly when it comes at the expense of two private CAA members, Northeastern and Hofstra, who have lost their teams because they don't get to have "fun" that way. So, no - you give me a break.

If that's all it takes....xcoolx

Lets build phase 2 now, get rid of URI and Maine too. No more road trips over 3 hours ;)

[kdinva]

Wofford (Private w/1,275 students) doin' OK, thank you.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lets get rid of URI and Maine too.

Gotta love your attitude. I'll assume that it is shared by virtually no one else in the CAA.

[AAadict]

Wofford (Private w/1,275 students) doin' OK, thank you.

That is pretty awesome. I have always had great respect for Wofford, Richmond, Lafayette, etc.

[whitey]

As I read it, the total is $62 million. $12 million in "existing" JMU funds (private donations; cash reserves, athletic budget, etc.) and $50 million from public sources. If you're fortunate enough to live in Virginia, be affiliated with JMU and can get away with this sort of thing, then more power to you. What incensed me was an earlier post suggesting that it was all "so much fun," particularly when it comes at the expense of two private CAA members, Northeastern and Hofstra, who have lost their teams because they don't get to have "fun" that way.

The initial estimate was $62m but that's since decreased due to the economy. I believe the cost now is about $52m with still about $10m coming from non public sources. I don't think anyone really thinks it's fun that NE and Hofstra had to drop their programs, I'm going to chalk that one up to message board sarcasm.

[Ud1Hens]

What I am disappointed in is how Delaware has 'allowed' itself to become the 5th best team in the CAA South. I'm waiting for ODU to enter league play so we can be passed yet again. It is hard to watch teams that you have historically dominated in facilities, recruiting, winning, etc. catch up then blow by you.

In football, like in life, there is no staying put...you are either getting better or you are getting worse. Sadly, Delaware has been getting worse.

[JMU DUUUKES LAW]

And once a quarter of a billion in public taxpayer dollars is spent "improving" CAA football to make it "more competitive" in the FCS, whom will you play? If the answer is, "we'll play our CAA schedule plus a couple of FBS teams," then it's time to move to the FBS.

Ha this is the most obvious jealousy i've ever read on here.

Forgive us for having tons of support and interest.

[JMU DUUUKES LAW]

Sadly, Delaware has been getting worse.

Cheer up! Programs have ups and downs. Nobody in the CAA South thinks UD is down for long.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ha this is the most obvious jealousy i've ever read on here.

Forgive us for having tons of support and interest.

I wouldn't trade places, if that's what you're implying. I like the Patriot League, its history, its standards, its facilities and its OOC schedule just fine.

[19Duke97]

Sure, it's a barrel of fun when you can just keep raising everyone's taxes to pay for it all:

http://dpb.virginia.gov/Budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vTable=C&vBiennium=2006-2008&vSecretary=Educa&vSort=N

Hats of to Richmond for its properly-scaled, modest project financed through private donations. The rest of you might consider a touch of humility once in a while. But why not laugh when you're having so much fun at the taxpayers' expense, I suppose . . . .

HAHAHAHA! That hilarious someone from NJ giving us a lecture in VA abt taxes? Please. A large portion of the stadium is funded by student fees and private donors, not just taxes.

[Longhorn]

As I read it, the total is $62 million. $12 million in "existing" JMU funds (private donations; cash reserves, athletic budget, etc.) and $50 million from public sources.

There are no public tax $$ involved in building JMU's stadium. None. Zippo. Zero. It's against the law in VA to use general taxpayer funds to build or support varsity athletic programs, and that includes providing funding for scholarships. The majority of the money being used to expand the JMU FB stadium will come from student generated fees (not tax payer money) which in turn will be used to retire construction bonds approved/authorized by the VA General Assembly.

So, if you don't like the size and scope of JMU's project that's your right, but get the facts straight. Only monies collected from private gifts (mostly of JMU alums), and structured fees (not public monies) from enrolled student users of JMU's services are making this project possible. And last I checked nobody was forcing any of the the 24,000+ people applying annually for admission to JMU to enroll if they truly objected to paying the present athletic fee. By the way, this is the same kind of fee recently approved by the students at ODU and GSU to support their budding FCS programs. So, while this may not be future for everyone (say NE and HU), it certainly is the future for many public unis in the CAA.

[wr70beh]

-ODU in its 1st season of football selling out every game in the newly renovated (25 million) 20k capacity Oyster Bowl in Norfolk.


It's called Foreman Field and has been called that since it's inception in 1936. They added "S.B. Ballard Stadium" after the latest renovations for the ODU program.

The Oyster Bowl was the annual game that was played there between 1948 and 1995.

[BDKJMU]

It's called Foreman Field and has been called that since it's inception in 1936. They added "S.B. Ballard Stadium" after the latest renovations for the ODU program.

The Oyster Bowl was the annual game that was played there between 1948 and 1995.

My bad. You are correct. Fixed it.

[wr70beh]

There are no public tax $$ involved in building JMU's stadium. None. Zippo. Zero. It's against the law in VA to use general taxpayer funds to build or support varsity athletic programs, and that includes providing funding for scholarships. The majority of the money being used to expand the JMU FB stadium will come from student generated fees (not tax payer money) which in turn will be used to retire construction bonds approved/authorized by the VA General Assembly.



$25 million will come from bonds that were passed in a bond issue done statewide in 2002.
$15 million will come from the non-general fund according to legislative records.

http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=11608114
http://leg1.state.va.us/081/bud/FinalSum/E29.PDF

The bond issue language says that the funding would go to public universties, but it didn't indicate what the money will be used for except for "education".

http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/008650.pdf

I was surprised how high the comprehensive fee was for students at JMU. No indication how much of that fee goes towards athletics or athletic facilities.

http://www.jmu.edu/visitors/wm_library/4-13-09.doc

[tribe_pride]

Wow that much of a comprehensive fee is an interesting way to hide tuition numbers.

[Longhorn]

$25 million will come from bonds that were passed in a bond issue done statewide in 2002.
$15 million will come from the non-general fund according to legislative records.

http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=11608114
http://leg1.state.va.us/081/bud/FinalSum/E29.PDF

The bond issue language says that the funding would go to public universties, but it didn't indicate what the money will be used for except for "education".

http://www.pwcgov.org/docLibrary/PDF/008650.pdf

I was surprised how high the comprehensive fee was for students at JMU. No indication how much of that fee goes towards athletics or athletic facilities.

http://www.jmu.edu/visitors/wm_library/4-13-09.doc


Thank you for making my point. Those are both NGF (Non General Fund) bonds. That means they are not repaid with sate money (i.e taxpayer funds). The approval of those bonds, and line-item listing of them in a state budget report, is for accounting and accountability purposes only. JMU officials can not issue bonds without approval of the General Assembly, and they are tracked and verified through normal state accounting procedures.

Again, it is against the law in VA to spend taxpayer $$ on varsity athletics. There are no public monies being used to build the new Bridgeforth stadium or fund any other aspect of varsity athletics at JMU or any other state uni in VA.

As for fees at JMU, they are high, but the overall cost of attending JMU is in the middle of the pack when compared to other VA state colleges and universities, running around $7400 per year for tuition and room and board. http://www.jmu.edu/ubo/ In round numbers about $35,000 less per year than UR. xthumbsupx

[Hoyadestroya85]

Villanova was not a founding member of the Big East - so no ties like UConn had. The Big East had to accept UConn, they do not have to accept Nova.

xrolleyesx Villanova is as much a part of the Big East as UConn is.. Oh wow, they entered the big east a whopping ONE year after it started ZOMG. The Big East would much rather have a school of Villanova's caliber enter the Big East for football than to add a new team (that has worked out well for them.) In the mid 90's they were extended the same invitation as UConn, they just had an administration who weren't willing to accept the results of a feasibility study.

[93henfan]

xrolleyesx Villanova is as much a part of the Big East as UConn is.. Oh wow, they entered the big east a whopping ONE year after it started ZOMG. The Big East would much rather have a school of Villanova's caliber enter the Big East for football than to add a new team (that has worked out well for them.) In the mid 90's they were extended the same invitation as UConn, they just had an administration who weren't willing to accept the results of a feasibility study.

Not to mention, you have a 65,000 seat stadium ready to go 12 miles away, though you might have to share it on alternating Saturdays with a MAC team.

[bandit]

xrolleyesx Villanova is as much a part of the Big East as UConn is.. Oh wow, they entered the big east a whopping ONE year after it started ZOMG. The Big East would much rather have a school of Villanova's caliber enter the Big East for football than to add a new team (that has worked out well for them.) In the mid 90's they were extended the same invitation as UConn, they just had an administration who weren't willing to accept the results of a feasibility study.


Absolutely correct xthumbsupx

Villanova has a standing invite to the Big East football conference should they decide to make the move to 1-A.

[BDKJMU]

GSU ain't moving to the CAAxrulesx, Georgia State on the other hand...

Funny, as I was watching the televised GA State @ JMU B-ball game yesterday, and the announcers kept saying GSU when referring to Ga State. I guess both GA schools go by GSU?

[BigSouthFB]

Funny, as I was watching the televised GA State @ JMU B-ball game yesterday, and the announcers kept saying GSU when referring to Ga State. I guess both GA schools go by GSU?

Technically Georgia State is GSU. their website is www.gsu.edu and there is somewhere in the trademarking part on georgia southerns website that they are not to be referred to as GSU. but thats just what i've read. I live in Atlanta. and people call them both GSU

[DFW HOYA]

Villanova has a standing invite to the Big East football conference should they decide to make the move to 1-A.

No they do not.

Villanova, Connecticut, Georgetown (and St. John's at the time) had until 1999 to commit, which is why the timing of Rentschler Field was so important.

The schools can resubmit a bid but it is no longer an open invite.

[AAadict]

Former DII Delaware might be a good prospect for that. Unlike Delaware, Holy Cross was never DII.

I fear UD is closer to FBS than DII. Your history lesson is correct but think UD is placed proper in FCS. Not big enough for Penn State, Pitt, etc. And don't want to be another Marshall. I think to be a true FCS program you should avg. at least 7,500 per game. Less than that stop kidding everyone and go DII.

[Sader87]

I fear UD is closer to FBS than DII. Your history lesson is correct but think UD is placed proper in FCS. Not big enough for Penn State, Pitt, etc. And don't want to be another Marshall. I think to be a true FCS program you should avg. at least 7,500 per game. Less than that stop kidding everyone and go DII.

According to the 2008 figures, that would be more than half of FCS....including NC Richmond.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/football_records/Attendance/2008.pdf

[BDKJMU]

According to the 2008 figures, that would be more than half of FCS....including NC Richmond.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/football_records/Attendance/2008.pdf

I-A has a minimum requirement minimum 15k avg once every 3 seasons, which is a joke. I-AA should have some type of minimum, say minimum 3k avg once every 3 seasons, which would also be a joke, but it would mandate at least some type of minimum. There was 14 of 118 who didn't avg that last season. 2 of those, Iona and Northeastern, have now dropped football.

[tribe_pride]

I-A has a minimum requirement minimum 15k avg once every 3 seasons, which is a joke. I-AA should have some type of minimum, say minimum 3k avg once every 3 seasons, which would also be a joke, but it would mandate at least some type of minimum. There was 14 of 118 who didn't avg that last season. 2 of those, Iona and Northeastern, have now dropped football.

Not possible - you cannot play sub D-I in football and D-I in all other sports.

[soccerguy315]

Not possible - you cannot play sub D-I in football and D-I in all other sports.

this game up recently... Johns Hopkins has DIII football, and they are a DI lacrosse powerhouse. Dunno about their other teams.

[JMU Newbill]

If I see one more post referring to taxes/tax law o n AGS, I am going to cry.

[andy7171]

Towson built their stadium for lacrosse. I know they named the stadium after Louiville alum Johnny U. Lacrosse is bigger than FB at Towson and is usally competes with the top teams in the country. I think if Lax wanted to practice they could kick FB off the field.
While a little bit of the truth is in you statement, it is the lax team that has to play on a field permanently marked for football. xcoolx


If I see one more post referring to taxes/tax law o n AGS, I am going to cry.
From what I understand when the NCAA made the division ruling of all-sports being D.I, D.II and D.III, Hopkins and Hobart were both given a grandfather clause to remain D.I lax and everything else D.III. Hobart decided to go D.III lax. Hopkins, well obviously, they took it.

[Dukie95]

Couple comments to several comments here. I know I'm late to the game...

1. Everybody knows ODU started this arms race, not JMU. The only reason JMU is expanding is because they had to keep up with ODU's efforts. ;)

2. In isolation, stadium expansion by a public university in any economic climate may seem irresponsible. However, it is but a part of an overall master plan that includes upgrades to many faclilities around campus to support projected growth in enrollment. If, in 10 or 15 years, the school has reached 30,000 students, does it make sense to have a stadium that only seats 15,000?

Here's the entire master plan http://www.myvirtualpaper.com/doc/JMUI/jmu_master_plan/2009072701/

[Ivytalk]

If I see one more post referring to taxes/tax law o n AGS, I am going to cry.

You won't see it from me!:Dxlolx

[89Hen]

As excruciating as it has been, as a Hens fan, to sit and wait to see what will be done with my contributions to the UDAF, I'm also sort of glad that the University has waited for the other schools to show their hand first and then hired HOK to put together a plan that will put us back ahead in the CAA arms race.
I have no doubt in 5 years, UD's facilities will be the best in the CAA. xnodx

[89Hen]

What I am disappointed in is how Delaware has 'allowed' itself to become the 5th best team in the CAA South.
xblahblahx

[wideright82]

I have no doubt in 5 years, UD's facilities will be the best in the CAA. xnodx

I have no doubt that in 5 years, Villanova's Facilities will be just about exactly the same as they are today.....xnonono2x

[JMUNJ08]

As I read it, the total is $62 million. $12 million in "existing" JMU funds (private donations; cash reserves, athletic budget, etc.) and $50 million from public sources. If you're fortunate enough to live in Virginia, be affiliated with JMU and can get away with this sort of thing, then more power to you. What incensed me was an earlier post suggesting that it was all "so much fun," particularly when it comes at the expense of two private CAA members, Northeastern and Hofstra, who have lost their teams because they don't get to have "fun" that way. So, no - you give me a break.

My "so much fun comment" was to playing at the FCS level as mentioned in the post above mine. NOT at the expense of losing 2 members in an "arms race" which is regretable. I was looking forward to a trip to Parsons and enjoyed Hofstra even with our loss.

JMU is a public university who can get funds from the state. Not our fault the state thinks its a good idea...

[JMU2004]

I have no doubt in 5 years, UD's facilities will be the best in the CAA. xnodx


is that in "real time" years or "UD" years. You know how the UD admin moves at a snail's pace.

[Ud1Hens]

xblahblahx

89Hen...I extremely respect your posts but how is that not true. Here are the facts to back up my statement.

2005: 3-5 record 5th in South
2006: 3-5 record 5th in South
2007: 5-3 record 4th in South
2008: 2-6 record 5th in South
2009: 4-4 record 5th in South

[89Hen]

is that in "real time" years or "UD" years. You know how the UD admin moves at a snail's pace.
I'm hoping real. In all fairness, I think the University was waiting to see what happened with the Chrysler plant before they'd work on any serious plans. Two years ago when they announced they'd have something out at the start of this year, I think they thought they Chrysler deal would have been done. Now that it is, I think we'll see better plans at the 2010 season opener like they promised this year. New turf, three straight home games to open including SDSU, expectations will be high with what is returning... it would be the perfect time to unveil something a little more concrete (and steel). xsmiley_wix

[GannonFan]

89Hen...I extremely respect your posts but how is that not true. Here are the facts to back up my statement.

2005: 3-5 record 5th in South
2006: 3-5 record 5th in South
2007: 5-3 record 4th in South
2008: 2-6 record 5th in South
2009: 4-4 record 5th in South

Of course, they and Richmond and whoever wins the nova/W&M semifinal this year will be the only teams from the CAA South to make the FCS Championship game in that timeframe.

All is not as bad in UD land as some Hens fans think and all is not well in UD land as some other Hens fans think. xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

89Hen...I extremely respect your posts but how is that not true. Here are the facts to back up my statement.

2005: 3-5 record 5th in South
2006: 3-5 record 5th in South
2007: 5-3 record 4th in South
2008: 2-6 record 5th in South
2009: 4-4 record 5th in South
I guess the part where they finished 3rd in 2007 and went to the NC game. They were the 5th best team in the CAA South the last two years. I expect next year they will be 1 or 2.

[GannonFan]

"...I think what James Madison is doing has gotten everyone's attention," said Keeler, referring to the just-begun $62 million renovation of Bridgeforth Stadium on JMU's Harrisonburg, Va., campus, and other state-of-the-art facilities there.

"You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus [opening next season] and we're responding trying to put a plan together of our own...."

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091204/SPORTS07/912040353/Hofstra+drops+football+program

Its actually a reported 52 million expansion...

Here are the CAA upgrades 03'-2011" (all in the South):
-Towson with their renovated 11k Johnny Unitas Stadium and 48k sq foot Field House (finished 03').
-JMU with their 10 million Plecker Athletic Center opened in 05'.
-W&M with their similar 11 million Laycock Center opened last year.
-ODU in its 1st season of football selling out every game in the newly renovated (25 million) 20k capacity SB Ballard Stadium at Foreman Field.
-UR opens a new albeit small stadium on campus next season.
-JMU undertaking a 52 million stadium expansion to be completed by 2011'.
-Ga State starting their 1st season of football next season and CAA play in the GA Dome in 2012.

But its not like JMU started the above. Towson was the 1st one with a nice new Field House. If JMU hadn't built the Plecker Center or started a stadium expansion, its not like any of the other schools wouldn't have done any ofthe above projects. So Keeler saying "You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus.." is really BS.

Seriously, how many pages has this thread gone through and no one's noticed the absolutely hilarious premise of this thread, that being that TOWSON STARTED THE CAA ARMS RACE!!!!! Come on, that's just funny stuff right there!!!!! xlolxxlolxxlolx

[Ud1Hens]

I guess the part where they finished 3rd in 2007 and went to the NC game. They were the 5th best team in the CAA South the last two years. I expect next year they will be 1 or 2.

In 07 them and Nova finished with the same conference record...Nova won head-to-head thusly placing UD 4th. That is just splitting hairs...I agree they will be 1 or 2 next year as well.

[JMUNJ08]

Seriously, how many pages has this thread gone through and no one's noticed the absolutely hilarious premise of this thread, that being that TOWSON STARTED THE CAA ARMS RACE!!!!! Come on, that's just funny stuff right there!!!!! xlolxxlolxxlolx

I guess they forgot too...xlolx

[Witter19]

While a little bit of the truth is in you statement, it is the lax team that has to play on a field permanently marked for football. xcoolx


From what I understand when the NCAA made the division ruling of all-sports being D.I, D.II and D.III, Hopkins and Hobart were both given a grandfather clause to remain D.I lax and everything else D.III. Hobart decided to go D.III lax. Hopkins, well obviously, they took it.


Hobart's D-1 xthumbsupx

[tribe_pride]

Hobart's D-1 xthumbsupx

Yep. Every couple years they get to the playoffs in lax too. Everything else is D-III as was said.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Seriously, how many pages has this thread gone through and no one's noticed the absolutely hilarious premise of this thread, that being that TOWSON STARTED THE CAA ARMS RACE!!!!! Come on, that's just funny stuff right there!!!!! xlolxxlolxxlolx

You're all wrong.

It was UNH who started it all....in 2001 when we went from 2 to 4 port-o-pots on the visitors side.

Sorry guys, it was us

[BDKJMU]

89Hen...I extremely respect your posts but how is that not true. Here are the facts to back up my statement.

2005: 3-5 record 5th in South
2006: 3-5 record 5th in South
2007: 5-3 record 4th in South
2008: 2-6 record 5th in South
2009: 4-4 record 5th in South


I guess the part where they finished 3rd in 2007 and went to the NC game. They were the 5th best team in the CAA South the last two years. I expect next year they will be 1 or 2.


89', UD1 is right. In 07' in the CAA South UD finished 4th:
1st UR 7-1
2nd JMU 6-2
3rd Nova 5-3
4th UD 5-3 (lost to Nova head to head)
5th W&M 2-6
6th Towson 1-7

Overall it was 6th, as UMass was 7-1, and UNH also finished 5-3 but beat UD.

1st UR 7-1
1st UMass 7-1 (UR & UMass didn't play each other)
3rd JMU 6-2
4th UNH 5-3
4th Nova 5-3 (UNH & Nova didn't play each other)
6th UD 5-3 (lost to both UNH and Nova)

Just goes to show how deep the CAA was that year with 5 teams in, and essentially the last one that finished 4th in the South and 6th overall made the NC game.

[bluehenbillk]

I'm hoping real. In all fairness, I think the University was waiting to see what happened with the Chrysler plant before they'd work on any serious plans. Two years ago when they announced they'd have something out at the start of this year, I think they thought they Chrysler deal would have been done. Now that it is, I think we'll see better plans at the 2010 season opener like they promised this year. New turf, three straight home games to open including SDSU, expectations will be high with what is returning... it would be the perfect time to unveil something a little more concrete (and steel). xsmiley_wix


89, I wish you were right, but the Chrysler site will have nothing to do with athletics, except maybe provide for some extra Saturday parking. And, it's been stated more than once that they're more likely to refurbish or add to the Tub versus build a new one.

[AAadict]

[QUOTE=bluehenbillk;1489265] the Chrysler site will have nothing to do with athletics, except maybe provide for some extra Saturday parking.

New stadium x number of years from now. I'm pretty sure they have hired HOK to put together plans for the site (Kansas City Royals stadium and many others since). Any hens posters with inside info? Very interested now that the Chrysler plant deal is done.

[89Hen]

89', UD1 is right. In 07' in the CAA South UD finished 4th:
4th UD 5-3 (lost to Nova head to head)

If you insist on going on technicalities.... there are no tiebreakers for anything other than the automatic bid. xpeacex

[89Hen]

89, I wish you were right, but the Chrysler site will have nothing to do with athletics, except maybe provide for some extra Saturday parking. And, it's been stated more than once that they're more likely to refurbish or add to the Tub versus build a new one.
I don't think a new stadium would be left of 896 but I do think the University wanted to know what their comittment to that property would be. IOW, they wanted all the cards on the table for South campus before they'd release any plans for any part of it. xpeacex

[BDKJMU]

If you insist on going on technicalities.... there are no tiebreakers for anything other than the automatic bid. xpeacex

I never saw any published rules on how the CAA does placings in each division (North and South) and for all 12 teams (well, make that now 10 teams).

[89Hen]

I never saw any published rules on how the CAA does placings in each division (North and South) and for all 12 teams (well, make that now 10 teams).
That's because there aren't any. That was my point. xthumbsupx

[jlcharles]

Not to mention, you have a 65,000 seat stadium ready to go 12 miles away, though you might have to share it on alternating Saturdays with a MAC team.

Not a snowball's chance in hell would the Eagles allow another football team to tear up the terrible grass even more. The only option would be trying to share Franklin Field. I hope they never decide to move up to a division that doesn't really decide its champ on the field. The only way we do move up is to protect the basketball team's standing in the Big East if a football/non-football split actually ever happens.

And as wideright said, the facilities will be the same in 5 years as they are today. No doubt about it.

[BDKJMU]

That's because there aren't any. That was my point. xthumbsupx

Well, I thought when determining conference standings for any conference, it was common to 1st go by conference records, for tie breakers to go by head to head, and only if 2 teams had the same conference record and didn't play each other, would there be a tie.

[93henfan]

I don't think a new stadium would be left of 896 but I do think the University wanted to know what their comittment to that property would be. IOW, they wanted all the cards on the table for South campus before they'd release any plans for any part of it. xpeacex

If you have a spare half hour, listen to the final Keeler radio show on WDSD's website. KC mentions that the plans have changed and the athletic performance center site has been moved from the corner of 896 and 4 (behind the current message board) to the north end zone of Delaware Stadium. This would lead me to believe that the Tub will be refurbished/rebuilt in place. He didn't get much more specific than that. He did state that he has seen the plans and that they will in fact be tops in CAA when complete.

[89Hen]

This would lead me to believe that the Tub will be refurbished/rebuilt in place. He didn't get much more specific than that. He did state that he has seen the plans and that they will in fact be tops in CAA when complete.
If the plans are real, they need to be shared ASAP. xeyebrowx

[89Hen]

Well, I thought when determining conference standings for any conference...
There are no official standings. Only champions and autos. xpeacex

[BDKJMU]

There are no official standings. Only champions and autos. xpeacex

So then officially no one has ever finished in 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place, etc in the CAA? Its CAA Champs and everyone else finishes the same- tied for nothing? xeyebrowx

So Towson has never finished in last place in the CAA South or the CAA? Wow, W&M, JMU, UD, Towson, UNH, Maine, HU, UMass, NE, URI, all then finished the same since there are no standings.xrolleyesx

[Ud1Hens]

If the plans are real, they need to be shared ASAP. xeyebrowx

Here here!

[rufus]

Its actually a reported 52 million expansion...

This phase of expansion is $62 million -- it says it right on the JMU Athletics stadium website.

http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14400&KEY=&ATCLID=204770166

That's on top of the $10-11 million spent on the endzone facility a few years ago. In the video on JMU's other stadium website, our AD explains that this $62M expansion is phase 2 of a multi-phase plan that will take 15-20 years (and started in 2001 with fund raising for the APC).

http://www.jmu.edu/bridgeforthstadium/

JMU is putting in the money to do this expansion the right way. I think it will encourage other CAA schools to improve their facilities as well.

[AppMan]

Sure, it's a barrel of fun when you can just keep raising everyone's taxes to pay for it all:

http://dpb.virginia.gov/Budget/vabud/vabud.cfm?vTable=C&vBiennium=2006-2008&vSecretary=Educa&vSort=N

Hats of to Richmond for its properly-scaled, modest project financed through private donations. The rest of you might consider a touch of humility once in a while. But why not laugh when you're having so much fun at the taxpayers' expense, I suppose . . . .

Not a single dollar of taxpayers money went into ASU's $60 million worth of new facilities.

[Go...gate]

I live in Princeton, NJ. If you think Princeton is some "weenie little town," I suppose that's your opinion. What other places containing Division 1 institutions are, in your opinion, "weenie little towns?" Durham, NH? Hamilton, NY? Kingston, RI? Boone, NC? Plenty of people in those places might differ with your characterization.

Second the motion as to Princeton, where, for years, Princeton filled Palmer Stadium most Saturdays in the fall.

Also, as to Colgate, we certainly drew reasonably well (approx 6,000) for two play-off games in 2003 which were played in blizzards. Would JMU get a big crowd in a snowstorm?

[AppMan]

"...I think what James Madison is doing has gotten everyone's attention," said Keeler, referring to the just-begun $62 million renovation of Bridgeforth Stadium on JMU's Harrisonburg, Va., campus, and other state-of-the-art facilities there.

"You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus [opening next season] and we're responding trying to put a plan together of our own...."

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20091204/SPORTS07/912040353/Hofstra+drops+football+program

Its actually a reported 52 million expansion...

Here are the CAA upgrades 03'-2011" (all in the South):
-Towson with their renovated 11k Johnny Unitas Stadium and 48k sq foot Field House (finished 03').
-JMU with their 10 million Plecker Athletic Center opened in 05'.
-W&M with their similar 11 million Laycock Center open ed last year.
-ODU in its 1st season of football selling out every game in the newly renovated (25 million) 20k capacity SB Ballard Stadium at Foreman Field.
-UR opens a new albeit small stadium on campus next season.
-JMU undertaking a 52 million stadium expansion to be completed by 2011'.
-Ga State starting their 1st season of football next season and CAA play in the GA Dome in 2012.

But its not like JMU started the above. Towson was the 1st one with a nice new Field House. If JMU hadn't built the Plecker Center or started a stadium expansion, its not like any of the other schools wouldn't have done any ofthe above projects. So Keeler saying "You can see that William & Mary quickly responded with the Jimmye Laycock Center and Richmond is quickly responding by building a new stadium on campus.." is really BS.

The Arms Race was started by Montana & ASU. JMU was smart enough recognize where the upper echelon of FCS programs are headed and decided to keep pace, especially in light of what ODU has done. If the Dukes didn't step up they were going to give a competitive advantage to ASU and ODU. Jax State has slso jumped into the pool and Ga State will be playing in the Georgia Dome. Anyone failing to recognize the seperation that is now taking place between the top FCS programs and the rest of the pack has their head in the sand. You can hardly compare what JMU is building to what Richmond, W&M, or Towson are doing. In light of what recently happened at Hofstra and Northeastern, Delaware has some mighty big decisions to make. It appears there are going to be some interesting developments in the college football landscape along the Atlantic Seaboard. Everything points to a re-emergence of the Yaknee Conference with the CAA morphing into either a FBS conference with ASU and some other Southern programs, or they become a non factor in the FCS world with the defection of JMU and ODU to FBS and possibly W&M & Richmond to the SoCon. Don't laugh, all you need to remember is where those two schools came from and the reasons they left back in the 70's. If Delaware does not step up to the plate and jump in the pool they might eventually find themselves back in the league they once came from. Isn't it funny how things always seem to work themselves back around. It is my opinion, like Delaware, the CAA finds itself in a precarious situation. They either have to get big (not in terms of membership numbers), or get devoured. How will they respond?

[Saint3333]

Good points. If ASU and GSU left for an FBS conference and the SoCon added W&M and Richmond that would be a nice conference of Furman, W&M, UR, Wofford, Citadel, Elon, Samford with UTC and WCU being the outliers. I'd say UTC and WCU could go to the OVC and add Liberty and one other.

[JMUNJ08]

Second the motion as to Princeton, where, for years, Princeton filled Palmer Stadium most Saturdays in the fall.

Also, as to Colgate, we certainly drew reasonably well (approx 6,000) for two play-off games in 2003 which were played in blizzards. Would JMU get a big crowd in a snowstorm?

It was around 20 game time for the semis vs. Montana and we had a record crowd...

[BDKJMU]

This phase of expansion is $62 million -- it says it right on the JMU Athletics stadium website.

http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14400&KEY=&ATCLID=204770166

That's on top of the $10-11 million spent on the endzone facility a few years ago. In the video on JMU's other stadium website, our AD explains that this $62M expansion is phase 2 of a multi-phase plan that will take 15-20 years (and started in 2001 with fund raising for the APC).

http://www.jmu.edu/bridgeforthstadium/

JMU is putting in the money to do this expansion the right way. I think it will encourage other CAA schools to improve their facilities as well.

Here's where I was getting the 52 million from:
"JMU Unveils Plan For $52M Stadium"
http://www.dnronline.com/details.php?AID=14381&CHID=3

Also there is the "Bridgeforth Expansion" thread on the CAAzone from late Oct till mid Nov, starting about the middle of page one, where some people mentioned that Charlie King had said their was a 10-20% savings due to the drop in construction costs. On the bottom of page 3 someone linked a WHSV video (that no longer works) where supposedly the cost is mentioned at 54 million, and that Bourne had said earlier this year a 15-20% savings due to the drop in construction costs.
http://boards.caazone.com/showthread.php?t=85656

[89Hen]

So then officially no one has ever finished in 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place, etc in the CAA? Its CAA Champs and everyone else finishes the same- tied for nothing? xeyebrowx

So Towson has never finished in last place in the CAA South or the CAA? Wow, W&M, JMU, UD, Towson, UNH, Maine, HU, UMass, NE, URI, all then finished the same since there are no standings.xrolleyesx
xconfusedx No. They just don't break ties. You can break the tie if you like, but the conferences don't. xpeacex

[art vandelay]

UNH has had the longest streak of playoff apearences ever in the CAA at 6 strait. I was a part of three of these, so believe me when I say UNH has, hands down, the worst facilities in the CAA. so how about the patriot league quits complaining that the CAA has an unfair advantage because of facilities.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I have no doubt in 5 years, UD's facilities will be the best in the CAA. xnodx


I have no doubt that in 5 years, Villanova's Facilities will be just about exactly the same as they are today.....xnonono2x

If five years from now, UNH facilities are the same as today then I'll be crying in my beer! I mean, please at least add lights and some more bleacher seats!! xwhistlex :D

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The New Hampshire program deserves at least a 16,000 seat stadium. When will that happen?

When private funding is raised to cover the vast majority of the costs. The State of NH doesn't fund the academic side adequately so no expectations that they'd actually fund an athletic endeavor. JMHO, but hopefully the program cuts at NU and HU will jump start a stadium project at UNH.

Like Husky Alum always joked with me, UNH had the land and Northeastern had the money. xnodx :D

[apaladin]

For all you 1-A wannabes, ask WKU how's that going. FWIW, Boone, NC is a weenie-little town. xlolxxnodx

[Sly Fox]

I know it is not popular to notice, but Liberty has been involved in the arms race as well and frankly has been open about our plans much larger than the SoCon. Our football ops center compares nicely with those in Harrisonburg & Williamsburg. Of course, we are battling them for recruits these days.

[Dukes_Bando]

I know it is not popular to notice, but Liberty has been involved in the arms race as well and frankly has been open about our plans much larger than the SoCon. Our football ops center compares nicely with those in Harrisonburg & Williamsburg. Of course, we are battling them for recruits these days.

To be fair you have access to nation-wide recruiting to a different demographic than W&M and JMU; in much the same way BYU, Notre Dame have constituencies. Heck W&M and JMU even differ to a degree with academic requirements.

I do think Liberty will keep pushing to make the jump to FBS in the near future.
However, I think their move is less predicated on other teams being ready to move up with them, a la JMU, ODU, others trying to move together.

[SpiderSafety75]

Shouldn't Liberty show some success at their current level first? If they can't recruit enough decent players at their current level, how will they do as an FBS school? This would, IMO, be a disaster for them. There aren't enough good players in the whole country who would want to attend Liberty to allow them to succeed, or even play .500, on the next level.

[Dane96]

Buffalo learned that lesson the hard way...and they dont have the "religion" aspect to worry about.

Totally agree Spider.

[jmufan999]

am i missing something here? very likely. but seriously, it seems like the tone of some of these posts is making it sound like Keeler is accusing JMU of something bad.

sounds very much like he's complimenting us (and other schools making improvements). starting an "arms race" for something like THIS is not bad... it's good.

BAD would be doing nothing at all or cutting your program. just seems like a few posters have made it sound like Keeler was saying we did something wrong. which he most definitely was not. unless he's an idiot. which i doubt.

[Sly Fox]

You could go down the rosters of every major and find plenty of kids who would have no problem withthe religious aspect of Liberty. Guys like Tebow, McCoy & Keenum would certainly have no problems playing at an FBS school with such religious ties.

Obviously it is tough to recruit as a Big South school. I'd love to see what the Spiders would be like as a member of the Big South. Good luck landing the talent they've enjoyed with no auto bid or strength of scheduling that comes from their Colonial ties. We're starting to pull talent away from Harrisonburg & Richmond the past few years that wouldn't have been possible 5 years ago.

At least we have been upfront & honest about where we would like to be heading. In the meantime we are investing heavily to be in position if the opportunity ever arises.

[Dukie95]

Sly, I don't want to bring up this debate in this thread, but please remember that it's not the simple fact that Liberty is religious that's the problem. It goes well beyond just being religious or founded upon christian values. It's the other social/political values that are the problem, and I think that's well understood.

Please don't assume that all Christians are OK with Liberty's values and that everyone who doesn't agree with Libery's values are non-Christians. I'm not accusing you of taking that posture, but this debate ends up there more ofthen than not.

peace

[Sly Fox]

Not arguing those facts. But the three I stated above all would have no problem with us. In fact one of those three seriously considered us for a time.

The point of me bringing up Liberty in this thread was in regard to the arms race in regards to facilities. There is no denying Liberty's position in this regard as much as some would prefer to ignore us.

[blukeys]

am i missing something here? very likely. but seriously, it seems like the tone of some of these posts is making it sound like Keeler is accusing JMU of something bad.

sounds very much like he's complimenting us (and other schools making improvements). starting an "arms race" for something like THIS is not bad... it's good.

BAD would be doing nothing at all or cutting your program. just seems like a few posters have made it sound like Keeler was saying we did something wrong. which he most definitely was not. unless he's an idiot. which i doubt.

Actually, you got it. Keeler is trying to get the UD administration of it's keister. He is using JMU, UR, and W&M as schools that are getting it right. Keeler is saying this is the way we need to go. This is not the first time he has said something like this. It is just now that someone has posted on this.

You are correct. Keeler is complimenting JMU.

[Dukes_Bando]

Not arguing those facts. But the three I stated above all would have no problem with us. In fact one of those three seriously considered us for a time.

The point of me bringing up Liberty in this thread was in regard to the arms race in regards to facilities. There is no denying Liberty's position in this regard as much as some would prefer to ignore us.

I definitely believe Liberty is adopting the "If we build it they will come" attitude, and I think it will work for them. They've shown that they have no problem dumping money into their program to make it better. Vehement support from an administration and fan base is good recipe for success... Lack thereof leads to situations like Northeastern, and Hofstra.

If you have any doubt of where Liberty wants to take itself, take a trip to their stadium for a game. The scoreboard alone is something to marvel over. You don't build stuff like that to stay in the Big South.

[SpiderSafety75]

Tampa did that with the Tropicana Dome, too. Didn't exactly work out for them. :)

[Keenan]

I definitely believe Liberty is adopting the "If we build it they will come" attitude, and I think it will work for them. They've shown that they have no problem dumping money into their program to make it better. Vehement support from an administration and fan base is good recipe for success... Lack thereof leads to situations like Northeastern, and Hofstra.

If you have any doubt of where Liberty wants to take itself, take a trip to their stadium for a game. The scoreboard alone is something to marvel over. You don't build stuff like that to stay in the Big South.

The JMU vs. Liberty game this season was undoubtedly one of the best college football games I've ever been to in my life (#2 behind WVU vs. Syracause '88 in Morgantown). The atmosphere was second to none. Looking forward to at least three more years of theses games! Both JMU and Liberty are investing major $$$ in their football programs.

[ChopperTN]

Not possible - you cannot play sub D-I in football and D-I in all other sports.


Actually Davidson has played DIII football for years and is DI (SoCon) for everything else.

[ccd494]

Actually Davidson has played DIII football for years and is DI (SoCon) for everything else.

Davidson is DI in football.

[Spiderbone]

This is a great thread but If any of you guys think JMU, ASU, or any of those schools would realistically be able to go to FCS and compete, look at the MAC, SUNBELT, WAC, etc. IF I was in your shoes I would keep doing what you are doing and continue to dominate at this level. Remember a team called Marshall that used to kick everybodies butts at this level and then went to I-A. Whre have they been in the last decade, they maybe have a winning season and occasionally makes it to the motor city bowl....ughxtwocentsx

Furthermore, Richmond WILL NEVER be in the FCS, that is just reality with a school of only 2300 students. I was thrilled that we were able to win a NC in 2008 with so many things that happened to fall into place. With that being said at his level a school of 2300 students can still beat schools (JMU, Delaware, ASU) with student bodies and facilities 5-10 times their size consistently and compete.....I just don't ever see that happening at the FCS level.

[DX Man]

This is a great thread but If any of you guys think JMU, ASU, or any of those schools would realistically be able to go to FCS and compete, look at the MAC, SUNBELT, WAC, etc. IF I was in your shoes I would keep doing what you are doing and continue to dominate at this level. Remember a team called Marshall that used to kick everybodies butts at this level and then went to I-A. Whre have they been in the last decade, they maybe have a winning season and occasionally makes it to the motor city bowl....ughxtwocentsx

Furthermore, Richmond WILL NEVER be in the FCS, that is just reality with a school of only 2300 students. I was thrilled that we were able to win a NC in 2008 with so many things that happened to fall into place. With that being said at his level a school of 2300 students can still beat schools (JMU, Delaware, ASU) with student bodies and facilities 5-10 times their size consistently and compete.....I just don't ever see that happening at the FCS level.


Not everybody!

[DX Man]

Actually Davidson has played DIII football for years and is DI (SoCon) for everything else.

There used to be a D-IAAA category. I don't know if it was an official or unofficial classification. Is that what you mean?

[DX Man]

This is a great thread but If any of you guys think JMU, ASU, or any of those schools would realistically be able to go to FCS and compete, look at the MAC, SUNBELT, WAC, etc. IF I was in your shoes I would keep doing what you are doing and continue to dominate at this level. Remember a team called Marshall that used to kick everybodies butts at this level and then went to I-A. Whre have they been in the last decade, they maybe have a winning season and occasionally makes it to the motor city bowl....ughxtwocentsx

Furthermore, Richmond WILL NEVER be in the FCS, that is just reality with a school of only 2300 students. I was thrilled that we were able to win a NC in 2008 with so many things that happened to fall into place. With that being said at his level a school of 2300 students can still beat schools (JMU, Delaware, ASU) with student bodies and facilities 5-10 times their size consistently and compete.....I just don't ever see that happening at the FCS level.


Do you not see that the "Bigger" schools are starting to pull away from the "Smaller" schools in FCS? I am referring to facilities because I think the current level of competition is about as even as it can be now between "small-vs-large", but let's face it, eventually the talent will follow the money. I know you are getting a new (smaller) stadium, and some other schools are getting or have gotten a new field house or a few upgrades, but, IMO, none of those can compare to the facilities that are completed or in the works for some other FCS programs. Do you think programs like Richmond can keep up or is there going to eventually be a big gap between the "Haves" and the "Have-nots" in FCS like there is in FBS? No smack intended here. I would just like to know your thoughts on this coming from a "Smaller" school.

[soccerguy315]

the problem is when the "haves" of FCS move up to FBS... they suddenly become the "have nots"

[DX Man]

the problem is when the "haves" of FCS move up to FBS... they suddenly become the "have nots"

Do you think the "Smaller" schools would stand a chance if all those schools had stayed in FCS?

[Spiderbone]

Do you not see that the "Bigger" schools are starting to pull away from the "Smaller" schools in FCS? I am referring to facilities because I think the current level of competition is about as even as it can be now between "small-vs-large", but let's face it, eventually the talent will follow the money. I know you are getting a new (smaller) stadium, and some other schools are getting or have gotten a new field house or a few upgrades, but, IMO, none of those can compare to the facilities that are completed or in the works for some other FCS programs. Do you think programs like Richmond can keep up or is there going to eventually be a big gap between the "Haves" and the "Have-nots" in FCS like there is in FBS? No smack intended here. I would just like to know your thoughts on this coming from a "Smaller" school.

I do see the gap...it is obvious. My point is I don't think that those "BIG" FCS schools coould just build a bigger stadium and join the FBS, unless you joined one of the crappy non-BCS leagues. Now if APPY could work out a deal to join the BIG EAST or the SEC I think they would dominate within a decade, same for JMU if they joined the ACC. But to think you are going to go to the next level and join the MAC, C-USA and do anything more substantial than a school like Marshall has done, IMHO you are mistaken or dreaming.

That being said, RICHMOND is not a poor school, it is A "HAVE", its endowment is around 1.4 billion and has plenty of cash to throw around. They get the talent specifically because of its facilities, tradition and history.:) IF they wanted to pay for every student's tuition free they could without a problem. RICHMOND has the means to compete with those schools because of MONEY IMHO. IF we wanted to build a 40K stadium we could, it just would never get filled. As it stands now we build a 10 million building on campus or do a major renovation every year or so anyway. I am not bragging that is just the nature of UR. Most of the other Richmond sports, particularly womens sports dominate in the A-10. That has to reflect on the athletic department at some level. Richmond wins the ALL-sport trophy just about every year inthe a-10 as a result. We have to be doing something right and can compete with anybody. Richmond is an anomaly in my opinion...tough school academically (I couldn't get in there now), One of the Smallest Student Bodies in FCS, Geographically diverse fanbase (read not a big following in Richmond City porper), Fantastic athletes that face tough academic standards, a well supported athletic program that actually wins championships.

With all of that beng said we WILL NEVER be an FBS school. Richmond is at the top of its game right now and I hope would stay there for a long time in its current capacity. It is a HAVE in the FCS and a WANT NOT of the FBS.

[rfeng]

A couple of comments. Buffalo hired a new AD and Coach a few years ago. Last year they played in a Bowl game. They upgraded their 17K seat facility to 30k seats. I read it isn't a very nice facility but their new AD and Coach have built up their program. If the Buffalo Bills moves to Toronto or to another city, which is a possibility because it is a poor NFL market, the University of Buffalo will own the city and become a football power. Maybe even leave the MAC.

Western Kentucky - This was their first year in the Sun Belt. They will have a strong program in a few years because they already have existing facilities and a strong athletic program.

FAU and FIU are new schools with football programs less than 10 years old. They don't have the on-campus facilities, the history or the money to build the facilities that most if not all of the CAA schools have.

Our conference is the best at the FCS level, comparable to the Sun Belt and with an additional 20 scholarships could compete with them. The economics of a weak FBS conference is better and has more of an upside than remaining as a FCS conference. I also think having 2+ teams playing Bowl games will generate serious money. More Bowl games are being added and they will need teams to play in them.

Kentucky might actually prefer to leave the Sun Belt and join a CAA FBS conference. They would be an asset.

This thread has detailed the many reasons why it is just a matter of time before most of the CAA members chose to become a FBS conference.

[State Line Liquors]

Kentucky might actually prefer to leave the Sun Belt and join a CAA FBS conference. They would be an asset.

This thread has detailed the many reasons why it is just a matter of time before most of the CAA members chose to become a FBS conference.

Which school are you a fan of again????

The CAA has been foaming at the mouth to add the Bowling Green, Kentucky viewing audience into the mix. Cripes.

[Spiderbone]

A couple of comments. Buffalo hired a new AD and Coach a few years ago. Last year they played in a Bowl game. They upgraded their 17K seat facility to 30k seats. I read it isn't a very nice facility but their new AD and Coach have built up their program. If the Buffalo Bills moves to Toronto or to another city, which is a possibility because it is a poor NFL market, the University of Buffalo will own the city and become a football power. Maybe even leave the MAC.

Western Kentucky - This was their first year in the Sun Belt. They will have a strong program in a few years because they already have existing facilities and a strong athletic program.

FAU and FIU are new schools with football programs less than 10 years old. They don't have the on-campus facilities, the history or the money to build the facilities that most if not all of the CAA schools have.

Our conference is the best at the FCS level, comparable to the Sun Belt and with an additional 20 scholarships could compete with them. The economics of a weak FBS conference is better and has more of an upside than remaining as a FCS conference. I also think having 2+ teams playing Bowl games will generate serious money. More Bowl games are being added and they will need teams to play in them.

Kentucky might actually prefer to leave the Sun Belt and join a CAA FBS conference. They would be an asset.

This thread has detailed the many reasons why it is just a matter of time before most of the CAA members chose to become a FBS conference.

yah, I have heard some major rumblings about Buffalo competing for a national championship....ooooooh watch out the buffs are coming to town xeekx NOT...buffalo has just become a springboard for coaches to go coach elsewhere like FCS Richmond...ugh!

[soccerguy315]

Do you think the "Smaller" schools would stand a chance if all those schools had stayed in FCS?

there are already huge gaps in the FCS, just like in FBS. The question is whether a school like ASU or JMU or ODU would like to compete at the top of FCS, or in the middle to bottom of FBS. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just the reality. If one of those schools could grab an invite to a BCS conference, I think they should take it in a second, but I just think that's unlikely. I do think smaller schools have the ability to compete with the ASUs and Montanas at the FCS level.

[Spiderbone]

there are already huge gaps in the FCS, just like in FBS. The question is whether a school like ASU or JMU or ODU would like to compete at the top of FCS, or in the middle to bottom of FBS. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just the reality. If one of those schools could grab an invite to a BCS conference, I think they should take it in a second, but I just think that's unlikely. I do think smaller schools have the ability to compete with the ASUs and Montanas at the FCS level.

And that is why MOST of those schools will stay in the FCS....BIG FISH, small pond or small fish, BIG POND. I agree on the BCS conference issue though...big money and that is unfortunately what it all comes down to. :(

[Spiderbone]

Our conference is the best at the FCS level, comparable to the Sun Belt and with an additional 20 scholarships could compete with them. The economics of a weak FBS conference is better and has more of an upside than remaining as a FCS conference. I also think having 2+ teams playing Bowl games will generate serious money. More Bowl games are being added and they will need teams to play in them.


IDEA!!!!Why not let the FCS schools play in those bowls NOW against other FBS schools after they are done with the playoffs and crown an FCS champion...would be interesting to see APPY play OHIO or ECU. OR SIU or Richmond play a mediocre 7-4/6-5 BCS team such a Syracuse, Temple etc. xthumbsupx

[JMUNJ08]

IDEA!!!!Why not let the FCS schools play in those bowls NOW against other FBS schools after they are done with the playoffs and crown an FCS champion...would be interesting to see APPY play OHIO or ECU. OR SIU or Richmond play a mediocre 7-4/6-5 BCS team such a Syracuse, Temple etc. xthumbsupx

xbowxxbowxxbowx

[soccerguy315]

IDEA!!!!Why not let the FCS schools play in those bowls NOW against other FBS schools after they are done with the playoffs and crown an FCS champion...would be interesting to see APPY play OHIO or ECU. OR SIU or Richmond play a mediocre 7-4/6-5 BCS team such a Syracuse, Temple etc. xthumbsupx

this is a good idea... I don't think they would go for the money sharing though xsmhx

[DX Man]

I do see the gap...it is obvious. My point is I don't think that those "BIG" FCS schools coould just build a bigger stadium and join the FBS, unless you joined one of the crappy non-BCS leagues. Now if APPY could work out a deal to join the BIG EAST or the SEC I think they would dominate within a decade, same for JMU if they joined the ACC. But to think you are going to go to the next level and join the MAC, C-USA and do anything more substantial than a school like Marshall has done, IMHO you are mistaken or dreaming.

That being said, RICHMOND is not a poor school, it is A "HAVE", its endowment is around 1.4 billion and has plenty of cash to throw around. They get the talent specifically because of its facilities, tradition and history.:) IF they wanted to pay for every student's tuition free they could without a problem. RICHMOND has the means to compete with those schools because of MONEY IMHO. IF we wanted to build a 40K stadium we could, it just would never get filled. As it stands now we build a 10 million building on campus or do a major renovation every year or so anyway. I am not bragging that is just the nature of UR. Most of the other Richmond sports, particularly womens sports dominate in the A-10. That has to reflect on the athletic department at some level. Richmond wins the ALL-sport trophy just about every year inthe a-10 as a result. We have to be doing something right and can compete with anybody. Richmond is an anomaly in my opinion...tough school academically (I couldn't get in there now), One of the Smallest Student Bodies in FCS, Geographically diverse fanbase (read not a big following in Richmond City porper), Fantastic athletes that face tough academic standards, a well supported athletic program that actually wins championships.

With all of that beng said we WILL NEVER be an FBS school. Richmond is at the top of its game right now and I hope would stay there for a long time in its current capacity. It is a HAVE in the FCS and a WANT NOT of the FBS.


Thank you for that answer and it's good to hear that Richmond is in good shape financially and of course there is no argument about UR's academic standing.

Do you think the majority of the schools that play FCS football are "In it to win it"or are they simply in FCS just so they can have their other sports (Basketball) in D-I?

IMO, if a school wants to play FCS football they should be required to fund at least all the scholarships. Those that do not,"Water down" the division.

Also, If the CAA went FBS as a conference, would UR go with them?

[Spiderbone]

Thank you for that answer and it's good to hear that Richmond is in good shape financially and of course there is no argument about UR's academic standing.

Do you think the majority of the schools that play FCS football are "In it to win it"or are they simply in FCS just so they can have their other sports (Basketball) in D-I?

IMO, if a school wants to play FCS football they should be required to fund at least all the scholarships. Those that do not,"Water down" the division.

Also, If the CAA went FBS as a conference, would UR go with them?

1) I think most schools in FCS have a tradition of football and are either football or basketball schools. I think a great deal of these teams that are starting football now ie. ODU, UNCC, FIU, etc have a combination of pressure on them from significant alumni and the means to make such a significant move. For those types of schools I think it also has to do with branding and getting their message out. At least in the South nothing brigns more notoriety to a achool than a winning football team and hey free advertising. Look at Richmond, interest and ancillary revenue from the NC created tons of interest and a permanent funding stream of all things Spider. Speaking of Richmond, it was early on a good football school and in the 80's and 90's it became a basketball school...football was below-average to average...at one point football did almost go belly-up and was talk about it dropping to the non-scholarship stature of Georgetown...we know how that ended up. Why the hell have a football team if you are not in it to win...history and tradition only go so far nowadays as by the example of Hofstra and NE. As far as I know their BBALL teams aren't so great either.

Look at some of the schools in FCS

Villanova big on basketball, tradition in football but not so big, (almost dropped it a few years ago) NOW in Championship.

Delaware BIGTIME FOOTBALL...about the only thing going in that state...bball not so much

Bill and Mary long football tradition..bbal not so much

UMASS..Big in bball with football tradition

APPY...Big football tradition...bball haven't heard much about them.

2) I think the patriot league and Ivy league are crap as far as I am conerned they do nothing but water down FCS. Those schools would do just as well in Div II or III as they really have no say in the playoffs EVER anyway. They DO stay in FCS football becasue of BBALL and a long tradition of football. Hell, I often think if the Ivy league never deemphasized their football teams after WWII they likely would be as dominant as the Notre Dames and USC's of the world. I think if you are in the FCS you should fund ALL scholarships or go to DII or DIII

3) I doubt UR would ever go to the FBS, as I have said UR has the means but fielding the 15k average would be tough for us for many reasons, notwithstanding the new 9k stadium (which i know has potential plans for expansion to a second level and 14-15k based on the foundations as laid, we had to appease the community around UR by starting reasonably small). I think if the CAA did go FBS, some of the Socon would go with them. UR along with Elon, W&M, Furman, Citadel, VMI, UMass, URI, Towson and Maine could be in a new Eastern seaboard conference with JMU, Delaware, GSU, ODU, Villanova, Appy, Georgia southern, Liberty and eventually George mason, VCU, UNCC, etc in a FBS CAA conference. xeyebrowx

[Bogus Megapardus]

I think the patriot league and Ivy league are crap

:D

By contrast, I think Richmond is a fine institution.

[Spiderbone]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderbone
I think the patriot league and Ivy league are crap


By contrast, I think Richmond is a fine institution.


I did not in any way mean to demean the schools themselves, just the league of course, either you are in or you are out. My point was Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Lehigh, Cornell, etc. at one point in this country were the mea culpa of Football. It is unfortunate that they pissed away all of that for the sake of academia as I see it. Plenty of schools have great football programs and stellar academics that benefit each other. BTW, I meant it was CRAP in the most positive and objective meaning of the word. xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

the mea culpa of Football.

xlolx The what?

[Henny]

Mark my words, Richmond hits rock bottom of the CAA next year. You will wish you were in the Patriot next year.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Mark my words, Richmond hits rock bottom of the CAA next year. You will wish you were in the Patriot next year.

Are you sharing perspective, based on your own experiences from 08 and 09?

[Spiderbone]

Mark my words, Richmond hits rock bottom of the CAA next year. You will wish you were in the Patriot next year.

We will do fine, you guys are still wishing you had Flacco and haven't been able to do much sincexnonox. Looking forward to turning away all of the Delaware fans in our new down-sized stadium xpeacex

[Henny]

You had your 2 years of glory --- Its over, face it! You will lack the talent and have to deal with enough change to struggle to beat Towson.

[Spiderbone]

xlolx The what?

Yeah my latin is rusty....sorry I meant Modus operandiixbowx

[Henny]

De-ni-al

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

You had your 2 years of glory --- Its over, face it! You will lack the talent and have to deal with enough change to struggle to beat Towson.

...and the sun will come up tomorrow and Kasey Keeler will still be your coach. Will be for many more tomorrows beyond, as well.

[State Line Liquors]

Mark my words, Richmond hits rock bottom of the CAA next year. You will wish you were in the Patriot next year.

You mean they drop football completely like Northeastern and Hofstra? That kind sir, is rock bottom.

[State Line Liquors]

...and the sun will come up tomorrow and Kasey Keeler will still be your coach. Will be for many more tomorrows beyond, as well.

It's K.C. Abbreviation for Kurt Charles. Learn it and love it, because we aren't a lilly pad, at least at this trajectory. :o

[Spiderbone]

You had your 2 years of glory --- Its over, face it! You will lack the talent and have to deal with enough change to struggle to beat Towson.

Keep thinking that way xsmiley_wix, and it will bite you in the ass! xthumbsupx

Everybody thought that in London's first year as head coach when we won the Championship

Spiders go 8-3 in 2010 reg season and suprise a few folks once again. xthumbsupx

[GrizBowl]

the problem is when the "haves" of FCS move up to FBS... they suddenly become the "have nots"

or become Boise St

[GrizBowl]

This thread has detailed the many reasons why it is just a matter of time before most of the CAA members chose to become a FBS conference.

can an entire conference move from one subdivision to another?

[93henfan]

can an entire conference move from one subdivision to another?

Well sure, if every school in that conference meets the criteria to move up, wants to do so, and the NCAA will approve it.

There's no single FCS conference that could do so at this time in its current state. When people talk about a conference moving up, they are making a ton of assumptions. They're assuming the schools that can't or won't try to meet the criteria will leave the conference or get forced out, etc. Then they're assuming any borderline schools will build the facilities and that the NCAA will approve a move of all the schools.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Keep thinking that way xsmiley_wix, and it will bite you in the ass! xthumbsupx

Everybody thought that in London's first year as head coach when we won the Championship

Spiders go 8-3 in 2010 reg season and suprise a few folks once again. xthumbsupx


NOT SO...WEB SPINNER.......EVERAH-BODY KNEW CLAWSON...LEFT DUH CUPBOARD FULL...EVEN KEELER...COODN'T HAVE MESSED DAT TEAM UP......xcoffeex...AWK!