OK, I'll start it......

[SoCalAg]

What the heck happened to the Big Sky today? As a west coast guy, I was hoping for a good showing, but it has been ugly today. What gives?

[bcrawf]

Maybe, its because the whole league is overrated and inflated by Montana, who doesn't play anybody??

[Mountaineer#96]

Maybe, its because the whole league is overrated and inflated by Montana, who doesn't play anybody??

Ok I guess you will start it ^^^^^ xlolx

[GrizDen]

Don't sleep on the Griz yet. 48-48 with 4 minutes to go. With that said, Weber State should have performed better than that.

Still lots of time left for EWU to come back as well.

[I Bleed Purple]

We weren't good enough. Simple as that.

And great, I'm sure we're going to get nothing but conference fans in here and no team fans.

[benuski]

Hopefully this will put that CAA vs. BSC talk to rest... Montana is defly a very good team, however. Their comeback today has been very impressive.

[WrenFGun]

IMO, W&M is an elite, top 5 team. Weber was just overmatched.

EWU was apparently supremely overrated, however.

[SpidersSportsEditor]

Here's what happened, they had to play teams not in the Big Sky and so they got beat. Shocking. Before the Griz fans jump all over this, that was an incredible come back, but it certainly showed some weaknesses.

[grizband]

Here's what happened, they had to play teams not in the Big Sky and so they got beat. Shocking. Before the Griz fans jump all over this, that was an incredible come back, but it certainly showed some weaknesses.
True, it showed various weaknesses:
1. Don't fumble the ball inside your own 15 yard line
2. Don't let punts get blocked into the end zone
3. Don't let interceptions get run back to the 2 yard line
4. Don't play crappy defense for an entire half of football

All in all, I am damn proud of the Griz resolve today!

[fltheadgriz]

It showed weaknesses but it also showed the resolve to overcome those weaknesses.

[SDSUJacks]

Montana had resolve, that's for sure. And I could have sworn we had a defense... wow.

[SpidersSportsEditor]

It showed weaknesses but it also showed the resolve to overcome those weaknesses.

True. Can't deny that. But, regardless, still shows the Big Sky is a one trick pony, which is what the haters (like me) have been claiming all year.

[Proud Griz Man]

Here's what happened, they had to play teams not in the Big Sky and so they got beat. Shocking. Before the Griz fans jump all over this, that was an incredible come back, but it certainly showed some weaknesses.


I get tired of listening to that phony analysis. What team doesn't have weaknesses? Think about it - Did all 22 starters for the 1968 Green Bay Packers win All-League awards plus make the Hall of Fame? xnonono2x

OBTW, the 3 point win over Elon exposed some of Richmonds weaknesses too. xreadx

[Proud Griz Man]

Montana had resolve, that's for sure. And I could have sworn we had a defense... wow.

The Jacks deserve credit for playing a tremendous game. I haven't seen a fourth quarter like that, but was really impressed with SDSU today.

[Tod]

IMO, W&M is an elite, top 5 team. Weber was just overmatched.

EWU was apparently supremely overrated, however.

Why? They were supposed to lose that game, really. The #2 Big Sky team travels to the SLC champ. An 11 point loss seems rather reasonable to me.

xconfusedx

[Proud Griz Man]

Maybe, its because the whole league is overrated and inflated by Montana, who doesn't play anybody??

<------- smack is that way. xnonono2x

[Peems]

I for one thought that Weber would lose, i didn't think they'd get skunked, but i wasn't surprised taht they got handled. I thought Eastern would win and the Griz.

[Tod]

I for one thought that Weber would lose, i didn't think they'd get skunked, but i wasn't surprised taht they got handled. I thought Eastern would win and the Griz.

I pretty much agree with you. I was surprised how badly Weber lost, but expected them to lose. EWU and SFA, I thought that was the most even match of the first round, but SFA had home field, so an 11 point loss is not that surprising to me.

[GrizDen]

Home teams went 7-1 in the first round....just sayin'.

[WestCoastAggie]

Home teams went 7-1 in the first round....just sayin'.

It should be 6-2 but once again the MEAC shows why they put the special in Special Teams. xoopsx

[89Hen]

We talked about the defense (or lack of) this week. It's not just an addage. Congrats to Montana, but EWU and Weber once again showing that you can't always just outscore teams.

[WrenFGun]

Why? They were supposed to lose that game, really. The #2 Big Sky team travels to the SLC champ. An 11 point loss seems rather reasonable to me.

xconfusedx

Wasn't it 37-12 SFA at one point?

[bluehenbillk]

Towson is investigating if they can swing a move to the Big Sky financially?

Still just only one team out west.

[Tod]

Wasn't it 37-12 SFA at one point?

Yeah. And if the Eagles had been able to score from, what, about 25 yards out with a few minutes left in the game... But they went for a pretty long FG and missed it.

So?

SDSU led the Griz by 27 points twice in the second half.

[WrenFGun]

I mean, if you look at general predictions, most picked EWU, IMO. The SLC is routinely poor in the playoffs. The Big Sky clearly did not perform well this go-round.

[Tod]

Towson is investigating if they can swing a move to the Big Sky financially?

Still just only one team out west.

Hell, tell them to go to the PL or the OVC or the SoCon or the Big South or the MEAC. They're much closer and certainly no better than the Big Sky.

xrulesx

[AggieRX]

Giving Montana credit, always find a way to win different types of games, whether the low scoring ones vs UCD or ISU or the come from behind offensive machine like today. Props

[putter]

I agree. I was very disappointed with Weber today as I thought they could put some points on W&M. Funny how all the CAA posters before the game were saying that W&M had a great D...they showed it and yet Weber sucks....xsmhx

Eastern scored points which is what I expected but I knew nothing about SFA so congrats to them on winning the shoot out...:)

[Grizaholic17]

Big Sky was shown respect in a year when maybe they shouldn't have received it. Some years your conference is great (the past two years), and sometimes when you finally gain the respect it weakens a little (this year). Weber had a meltdown, and I never thought EWU would have a chance. Just an odd situation and unfortunate because it justifies all of your criticisms. I guess my team is still in it though.

[EWashEagle]

You CAA fans crack me up. You would think the App State would have your attitude considering the championships they have won in recent history.

Weber did get pounded, no question, but how can you think that Eastern didnt show up today. 595 yards of total offense, 99 total offensive plays, two missed late scoring opportunities, a red zone interception with 5 minutes left, a missed field goal with 1.54 left, playing their 4th straight game on the road.

SFA played a good game, hats off to them.

[HenZoneNation]

This simply proves a point I tried to make on the BSC post: this conference is one team, and one team only. Montana gets hurt being connected to this conference. Montana went undefeated and were surpassed by SIU and Nova who lossed games. Why? Because the level of comp they face is not up to par. They are the Boise St. of the FCS. Luckily for them they have the tradition and fan base they do...Montana...go independent.

[EWashEagle]

HenZone your right, with the Hens showing today you should be able to talk smack...congrats on your win today...oh wait the Hens didnt even play today

[Green26]

I agree that Weber could have made a better showing today. However, are you saying that the last 2 teams to get into the playoffs, who were playing on the road, should have won? I don't understand the reasoning.

Note that all but one home team won today.

What this shows me is that some CAA (and other) fans don't know much about football and/or are biased. They take 2 road losses by 2 Big Sky teams who were the last 2 teams to get into the playoffs, and try to assert that that means the Big Sky is weak.

The CAA did well today. However, Richmond and Villanova didn't exactly blow out their opponents. Jeez, Holy Cross isn't a strong team, and was probably one of the weakest in the playoffs.

I would like to see how some of these games would have gone if played at the other school's venue.

[Dukes_Bando]

HenZone your right, with the Hens showing today you should be able to talk smack...congrats on your win today...oh wait the Hens didnt even play today

You're right... Hens you need to go to the Big Sky so you can make the playoffs every year...xeyebrowxxnonono2x

[HenZoneNation]

The CAA does not have to present a case...I don't think I even have to make that argument. If you want to compare EWU program vs. UD's the that will be fun. I certainly was not pleased with UD this year...however, how does that make the BSC overratted statement wrong? The only team worth it's weight won...and barely. Face it The MVC and the SoCo are better conferences.

[Bettina90]

I agree that Weber could have made a better showing today. However, are you saying that the last 2 teams to get into the playoffs, who were playing on the road, should have won? I don't understand the reasoning.

Note that all but one home team won today.

What this shows me is that some CAA (and other) fans don't know much about football and/or are biased. They take 2 road losses by 2 Big Sky teams who were the last 2 teams to get into the playoffs, and try to assert that that means the Big Sky is weak.

The CAA did well today. However, Richmond and Villanova didn't exactly blow out their opponents. Jeez, Holy Cross isn't a strong team, and was probably one of the weakest in the playoffs.

I would like to see how some of these games would have gone if played at the other school's venue.




We can only hope Weber would have scored a point at home. Or Montana would not have given up 70 on the road.

[Green26]

The CAA does not have to present a case...I don't think I even have to make that argument. If you want to compare EWU program vs. UD's the that will be fun. I certainly was not pleased with UD this year...however, how does that make the BSC overratted statement wrong? The only team worth it's weight won...and barely. Face it The MVC and the SoCo are better conferences.

Here's a prime example of an unknowledgeable and biased view. Obviously doesn't understand the game, and never played it at a high level.

[AAadict]

You're right... Hens you need to go to the Big Sky so you can make the playoffs every year...xeyebrowxxnonono2x

We're happy being the best team in the history of the CAA/A10.

[Green26]

We can only hope Weber would have scored a point at home. Or Montana would not have given up 70 on the road.

See you (or your team) in Missoula in two weeks--if you make it.

[Bettina90]

We're happy being the best team in the history of the CAA/A10.



Not in the last 12 years.....



xnonox

[Bettina90]

See you (or your team) in Missoula in two weeks--if you make it.




I would love that. Those fluttering passes Montana threw on their last scoring drive that were completed would be Pick 6's in CAA-town.

[HenZoneNation]

Green26,


Again I ask a member of the BSC fan club, identify what I have said that is wrong. Tell me, in your expert, player op-inion, using facts of course, how I'm wrong.

[Silenoz]

Here is a question..

What is the deal with the CAA's obsession with the Big Sky?

You'd think we stole their prom dates or something

[Silenoz]

I would love that. Those fluttering passes Montana threw on their last scoring drive that were completed would be Pick 6's in CAA-town.

Note the "CAA-town", not "Richmond-town"

You guys are like a cult

[Bettina90]

Note the "CAA-town", not "Richmond-town"

You guys are like a cult



Because I am not sure Richmond will get by App State, but I am pretty sure whichever CAA team runs into Montana will get by them. It's not a cult, it's a byproduct of an incredibly tough conference (Read: Division). It may not happen until the final game, but Montana will not win this. See: The 7 points Montana scored in Chatty last year. Just a matter of who gets them first. "We" battle all year for the honor.

[Bettina90]

I mean, you have in your sig, a dominant record vs. Montana State. And what is their grand FCS playoff record?

[Green26]

Green26,


Again I ask a member of the BSC fan club, identify what I have said that is wrong. Tell me, in your expert, player op-inion, using facts of course, how I'm wrong.


First, I will say that it's hard to deal with ignorance. Second, you need to prove your statements to be correct, supported by facts, etc. It's not for us to prove you wrong.

The last I saw in the rating services, they had the CAA rated first and the Big Sky second. The SoCon, Great West, MV and Southland were behind them. The Big Sky beat the MV today. While the CAA may widen the gap, I don't know why the Big Sky would be deemed to be weak. I think it's you who needs to use and face the facts.

Here's last week's GPI:

1. Colonial Athletic Association (25.40)
2. Big Sky Conference (30.29)
3. Southern Conference (31.15)
4. Great West Conference (31.72)
5. Missouri Valley Football Conference (33.40)
6. Southland Conference (40.50)

[Bettina90]

you got worked by the team that finished 3rd in the CAA South last year. And gave up 48 points in 3 quarters today. I would think it's incumbent on you to convince us you are not a fraud, or, at worst, a very, very big fish in a small pond that struggles when confronted with teams that are National Powers.

[HenZoneNation]

To which I retort:
1) Who really bases their arguement on the GPI?
2) The MVC has a higher rated team than the BSC...probably because Montana is forced to play teams in the BSC.
3) The BSC WENT 1-2...The MVC 1-1...and we all know how that last loss played out...;)

You're fun to play with...I'll say that. :o

[TribeinDC]

What are Griz fans doing posting here? Shouldn't you be spending your time on a thread self-congratulating your team for going 12-0?

[AAadict]

Not in the last 12 years.....



xnonox

UR is on a roll but fan base is too low. Nothing reminds me of how UR improved their program than a Tim Hightower interview.

[Green26]

you got worked by the team that finished 3rd in the CAA South last year. And gave up 48 points in 3 quarters today. I would think it's incumbent on you to convince us you are not a fraud, or, at worst, a very, very big fish in a small pond that struggles when confronted with teams that are National Powers.

Montana beat the no. 1 team in the CAA last year, when they were ranked no. 1 in the nation, on the road. How do you explain that?

As for today, in the first 2.5 quarters, Montana had 4 turnovers and one blocked punt, all resulting in TD's for SDS, I believe. As you can see, UM spotted SDS a good deal of points. When SDS scored with 5:40 to go in the 3rd quarter, SDS was up 48-21.

Montana scored 6 straight TD's in the last 21.5 minutes. Montana held SDS to 1 for 12 on 3rd down conversions. SDS had only 324 yards of total offense in the game. While SDS had 4 turnovers, their 2 turnovers in the second half both came after Montana had come back and taken the lead.

Incredible comeback. UM showed they have the hearts of champions.

Like I said before, you don't understand the game. It's evident in your posts.

[Silenoz]

I mean, you have in your sig, a dominant record vs. Montana State. And what is their grand FCS playoff record?

I'm proud of our record against our RIVAL. So, I don't see what you're trying to say here... at all.



Because I am not sure Richmond will get by App State, but I am pretty sure whichever CAA team runs into Montana will get by them. It's not a cult, it's a byproduct of an incredibly tough conference (Read: Division). It may not happen until the final game, but Montana will not win this. See: The 7 points Montana scored in Chatty last year. Just a matter of who gets them first. "We" battle all year for the honor.

And people accuse Griz fans of being arrogant.

My intended point was that rooting for your team in CAA-land appears secondary to rooting for your conference. And since Griz fans take so much s#$% for being in love with our team, you guys should take s#$% for being in love with your conference.

[Green26]

To which I retort:
1) Who really bases their arguement on the GPI?
2) The MVC has a higher rated team than the BSC...probably because Montana is forced to play teams in the BSC.
3) The BSC WENT 1-2...The MVC 1-1...and we all know how that last loss played out...;)

You're fun to play with...I'll say that. :o


Almost everyone gives the GPI significant credence, including the playoff selection committee. It basically proves my point, when you pooh pooh the GPI. Too funny. The bigger question is who gives any credence to fans who don't understand the game and are biased.

[Tribe]

I'm a bit new to FCS football but I will give my humble opinion. I'm not saying teams in the Big Sky aren't talented but I believe some of the teams in the CAA are more physical on defense. If you watched that Richmond/William and Mary game, guys were leaving in bodybags it was so physical. This is really apparent to me on the defensive lines. Teams like the Tribe, Spiders and Villanova are very physical up front.

I think Montana and some other teams I've seen out west are very good football teams. I just think the better teams in the CAA are better suited to travel in the playoffs because of their style of play. That's just my opinion from the short time I've been watching them, so if you disagree fine but please don't bite my head off. It's just an observation.

On a side note I love reading through these threads. It not only helps me continue to learn more about FCS football but it shows the passion you all have for your teams and conferences. I have one question though: Are fans like this for the schools that don't always go to the playoffs or is this kind of passion relegated to just a few fanbases? Thanks.

[TribeinDC]

Montana beat the no. 1 team in the CAA last year, when they were ranked no. 1 in the nation, on the road. How do you explain that?

.

Easy...Rodney Landers injury...DUH!

[HenZoneNation]

Green26,

This is the exact arguement I have made for weeks...nobody says UM is an over-rated program...they say the BSC is an over-rated conference. You guys were #3 in the nation at the start of the year, you went undefeated, and ended up #3 in the nation. The two teams that finished ahead of you each lost a game. You guys just don't seem to get the point no matter how much we spell it out for you....


SWITCH CONFERENCES xeyebrowx

[Silenoz]

you got worked by the team that finished 3rd in the CAA South last year. And gave up 48 points in 3 quarters today. I would think it's incumbent on you to convince us you are not a fraud, or, at worst, a very, very big fish in a small pond that struggles when confronted with teams that are National Powers.

Uh, we destroyed you in 2000. GUESS YOU WERE A "FRAUD" THAT YEAR. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE 2ND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS!! FIRST OR LAST!!!


(alcohol and growing lack of patience with "CAA" fans at work here, I'm actually almost ashamed of myself for letting this get to me)

[GrizDen]

What are Griz fans doing posting here? Shouldn't you be spending your time on a thread self-congratulating your team for going 12-0?

Lovely, this is one of those quotes that reminds me why as a Griz fan, I don't enjoy the majority of my time on AGS. I purposely only go to the FCS Discussion board as I dispise smack talk. Now is the above comment "smack-light"? Sure, I'll give you that, but it is smack none the less and I grow tired and weary of these comments as i don't reciprocate in that type of banter.

I'm probably just being overly sensative being from the Big Fluffy and all, but I sure would rather have clear headed discussions on this board rather than the continued bashing of each others programs, conference, fans etc... (yes, I see the irony in this...no need to point it out to me).

Maybe AGS should be renamed from Any Given Saturday to All Griz Slandering.xpeacex

[Native]

Hopefully this will put that CAA vs. BSC talk to rest... Montana is defly a very good team, however. Their comeback today has been very impressive.

Nothing is ever "to rest," because there is always next year. :D

But congrats to the CAA for a very big day!xbowx

[Green26]

Green26,

This is the exact arguement I have made for weeks...nobody says UM is an over-rated program...they say the BSC is an over-rated conference. You guys were #3 in the nation at the start of the year, you went undefeated, and ended up #3 in the nation. The two teams that finished ahead of you each lost a game. You guys just don't seem to get the point no matter how much we spell it out for you....


SWITCH CONFERENCES xeyebrowx


Then, why didn't the playoff selection committee give the no. 1 seed to someone from a better conference?

[Tribe]

Montana beat the no. 1 team in the CAA last year, when they were ranked no. 1 in the nation, on the road. How do you explain that?

As for today, in the first 2.5 quarters, Montana had 4 turnovers and one blocked punt, all resulting in TD's for SDS, I believe. As you can see, UM spotted SDS a good deal of points. When SDS scored with 5:40 to go in the 3rd quarter, SDS was up 48-21.

Montana scored 6 straight TD's in the last 21.5 minutes. Montana held SDS to 1 for 12 on 3rd down conversions. SDS had only 324 yards of total offense in the game. While SDS had 4 turnovers, their 2 turnovers in the second half both came after Montana had come back and taken the lead.

Incredible comeback. UM showed they have the hearts of champions.

Like I said before, you don't understand the game. It's evident in your posts.

I watched this entire game on ESPN Gameplan. The comeback by Montana was one of the most impressive things I've seen in football on any level. However, I think SDSU kicked the Griz's tail in the first half. They ran the ball on them, controled the clock, shut down Montana's ground game and put pressure on the quarterback. I don't think the Griz were giving the game away, I think the Jacks took it to them.

Amazing comeback and win though. Montana stepped up and showed tremendous heart with its season on the line. Congrats.

[Bettina90]

Montana beat the no. 1 team in the CAA last year, when they were ranked no. 1 in the nation, on the road. How do you explain that?

As for today, in the first 2.5 quarters, Montana had 4 turnovers and one blocked punt, all resulting in TD's for SDS, I believe. As you can see, UM spotted SDS a good deal of points. When SDS scored with 5:40 to go in the 3rd quarter, SDS was up 48-21.

Montana scored 6 straight TD's in the last 21.5 minutes. Montana held SDS to 1 for 12 on 3rd down conversions. SDS had only 324 yards of total offense in the game. While SDS had 4 turnovers, their 2 turnovers in the second half both came after Montana had come back and taken the lead.

Incredible comeback. UM showed they have the hearts of champions.

Like I said before, you don't understand the game. It's evident in your posts.



I understand the game quite well. Please spot 1/4 of those points against Richmond if you play them. The point is, you should not spot so many points and advance.

[Green26]

Easy...Rodney Landers injury...DUH!

Nope, don't agree. The JMU back-up qb hurt us worse than Landers. Griz would have beaten JMU with Landers still in the game.

Where do all of these offbase and ignorant comments come from?

[Bettina90]

Then, why didn't the playoff selection committee give the no. 1 seed to someone from a better conference?



I would so rather be the 4 to Montana's 1 than be in the same bracket as Nova or W&M. This will prove to be evident in the next week, IMO. Be it Richmond or App to prove it.

[Green26]

I watched this entire game on ESPN Gameplan. The comeback by Montana was one of the most impressive things I've seen in football on any level. However, I think SDSU kicked the Griz's tail in the first half. They ran the ball on them, controled the clock, shut down Montana's ground game and put pressure on the quarterback. I don't think the Griz were giving the game away, I think the Jacks took it to them.

Amazing comeback and win though. Montana stepped up and showed tremendous heart with its season on the line. Congrats.


Yes, SDS beat the Griz in the first half. However, 4 Griz turnovers for scores, some bad penalties, and some mistakes, hurt the Griz more than the good play of SDS.

Football is a game of 4 quarters. You can't focus on a portion of the game. You have to look at the entire game, as well as the outcome.

[TribeinDC]

xrolleyesx
Nope, don't agree. The JMU back-up qb hurt us worse than Landers. Griz would have beaten JMU with Landers still in the game.

Where do all of these offbase and ignorant comments come from?

You're right, clearly the runner-up to the 2008 payton award wouldn't have made a difference in the game...

[Silenoz]

I would so rather be the 4 to Montana's 1 than be in the same bracket as Nova or W&M. This will prove to be evident in the next week, IMO. Be it Richmond or App to prove it.

I think everyone can agree that we should just forfeit now and not waste anyone's time. And move down to DII while we're at it

[Green26]

I would so rather be the 4 to Montana's 1 than be in the same bracket as Nova or W&M. This will prove to be evident in the next week, IMO. Be it Richmond or App to prove it.


You can be what you want, but I highly doubt that Richmond will be going to Chattanooga this year.

[HenZoneNation]

That's a great question Green26...and while you're at it why do they give the MEAC an automatic bid? You tell me cause history sure doesn't support either.

[Bettina90]

Agreed.

[Silenoz]

xrolleyesx

You're right, clearly the runner-up to the 2008 payton award wouldn't have made a difference in the game...

You mean like lead a furious comeback rally and throw a perfect pass on 4th and 20-whatever to put you in position for the tie? Kind of like Dudzik did!

Ok, I'm done here, I'm promising myself that! Today was too awesome to let AGS get under my skin

[Tribe]

Yes, SDS beat the Griz in the first half. However, 4 Griz turnovers for scores, some bad penalties, and some mistakes, hurt the Griz more than the good play of SDS.

Football is a game of 4 quarters. You can't focus on a portion of the game. You have to look at the entire game, as well as the outcome.

I did do that. I believe I gave Monatana major props for winning that game. My only point is let's not excuse SDSU like they are the sisters of the poor. They played a hell of a game themselves. I am actually giving Montana credit here. I think their comeback was even more impressive when you consider how well the Jacks were playing all game.

[Bettina90]

You can be what you want, but I highly doubt that Richmond will be going to Chattanooga this year.

Talk to me after this Saturday, cause if Richmond gets by App, I will make you a bet that I will pay on if I lose.

[HenZoneNation]

I don't see APPY or Montana beating Richmond. They had their one bad game and now that's long, long gone.

[uofmman1122]

Weber and EWU didn't show up today, and Montana didn't show up until the 4th quarter.

But I'll be damned if any team could have stopped us in the end of that game! We were a team possessed! xnodx

I'm in way too good of a mood to be brought down by some CAA fans.

W&M is a monster, and Higgins had a terrible performance.

SFA is legit, and it will be an awesome game next week.

I'm still crazy pumped right now, and I don't think I can sleep! xlolx

[Green26]

xrolleyesx

You're right, clearly the runner-up to the 2008 payton award wouldn't have made a difference in the game...

Landers was hurt with about 2 minutes to go in the first half. UM was leading 14-10. Landers had 17 carries for 84 yards, for 4.9 yards per carry and a long of 11. Landers was 1-4 throwing for 15 yards, and was sacked once. He also lost a fumble.

JMU scored 17 points in the second half (note this is more than in the first half when Landers was playing).

Dudzik carrried 12 times for 88 yards, for 7.3 yards per carry and a long of 18. Dudzik was 6-13 throwing for 70 yards. He also threw an interception. (Note Dudzik carried for more yards and more yards per carry. He also threw for more yards and had a higher completion percentage.)

You obviously weren't at the game, didn't watch the game or weren't paying attention, and were just too lazy to look up the stats. Once again, an ignorant unsupported comment.

[Native]

True. Can't deny that. But, regardless, still shows the Big Sky is a one trick pony, which is what the haters (like me) have been claiming all year.

Congrats to the CAA for the big day. I will be the first to say that the W&M defense is for real!

The Big Sky is 9-2 in non-conference FCS games in 2009, 10-4 counting the playoff games today.

0-1 vs CAA. Congrats!
0-1 vs Southland. Congrats!
1-0 vs MVFC.
8-2 vs GWFC.
1-0 vs Pioneer.

[TribeinDC]

Landers was hurt with about 2 minutes to go in the first half. UM was leading 14-10. Landers had 17 carries for 84 yards, for 4.9 yards per carry and a long of 11. Landers was 1-4 throwing for 15 yards, and was sacked once. He also lost a fumble.

JMU scored 17 points in the second half (note this is more than in the first half when Landers was playing).

Dudzik carrried 12 times for 88 yards, for 7.3 yards per carry and a long of 18. Dudzik was 6-13 throwing for 70 yards. He also threw an interception. (Note Dudzik carried for more yards and more yards per carry. He also threw for more yards and had a higher completion percentage.)

You obviously weren't at the game, didn't watch the game or weren't paying attention, and were just too lazy to look up the stats. Once again, an ignorant unsupported comment.

Just saying it would have been different. Look what Landers did that same year against App State.

JMU was shut out in the first half and he lead the team back to win, accounting for 4 td's. Dudzik may have done good, but Landers would of prob won it. Either way, UR took care of business.

[uofmman1122]

Just saying it would have been different. Look what Landers did that same year against App State.

JMU was shut out in the first half and he lead the team back to win, accounting for 4 td's. Dudzik may have done good, but Landers would of prob won it. Either way, UR took care of business.Why are you guys arguing about this now as if it makes any bit of difference?

Montana played lights out against JMU and won. End of story.

They went to the Championship, played a bad game against a very good Richmond team and lost. Richmond D was too much for us. End of story.

[putter]

you got worked by the team that finished 3rd in the CAA South last year. And gave up 48 points in 3 quarters today. I would think it's incumbent on you to convince us you are not a fraud, or, at worst, a very, very big fish in a small pond that struggles when confronted with teams that are National Powers.

Lets see, #1 JMU last year......turned the ball over 4 times to Montana and lost - at home (which we had to listen to for 6 months). This year Montana turns the ball over 3 times inside 20 which SDSU capitalizes on (as a good team should) and still has the guts to hang in there and win. What fraud are you speaking of?? This was a piss poor game by the Griz and yet they put 61 on a top D from the MVC who only gave up 16 to Minnesota. Had a bad game yet moved on.

[crusader11]

Jeez, Holy Cross isn't a strong team, and was probably one of the weakest in the playoffs.


Come play us. I think you would have a different impression of us, just like Villanova now does.

[putter]

Come play us. I think you would have a different impression of us, just like Villanova now does.

don't tell that to the CAA fans. They had Villanova winning by, what, 100?

[Proud Griz Man]

We talked about the defense (or lack of) this week. It's not just an addage. Congrats to Montana, but EWU and Weber once again showing that you can't always just outscore teams.

Hmmmmmm. Delaware did how? xreadx this weekend? xcoffeex

[seattlespider]

Uh, we destroyed you in 2000. GUESS YOU WERE A "FRAUD" THAT YEAR. EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE 2ND ROUND OF THE PLAYOFFS!! FIRST OR LAST!!!


12-02-2000
Richmond 20
Montana 34

Missoula, MT

xeyebrowx

[YoUDeeMan]

HenZone your right, with the Hens showing today you should be able to talk smack...congrats on your win today...oh wait the Hens didnt even play today

Well, it isn't all that bad. The Hens didn't show up today...but less than half the Eagles showed up today...none of your defense thought it was worth the trip and your offense didn't feel as though they wanted to play 4 quarters. xlolx

WTF? Is the Big Fluffy seriously trying to win outside of their own conference? The top 3 Big Fluff teams were in charitable moods saturday:

Montana gives up 48 points.

Eastern Washington gives up 44 points.

Weber gives up 38 points...and scored ZERO points!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Do you Big Sky folks know that you can put 11 people on the defensive side of the ball? xeyebrowx

All of the pre-playoff talk about how the Big Fluffy defenses are underrated because the offenses score points....RIOT!

It must be nice to cruise through the regular season having to face only one tough team...and the Griz don't get to face anyone. xrotatehx

[YoUDeeMan]

12-02-2000
Richmond 20
Montana 34

Missoula, MT

xeyebrowx

Don't let facts get in the way of a good Griz scratch...they breath thin air up there.

[Proud Griz Man]

Well, it isn't all that bad. The Hens didn't show up today...but less than half the Eagles showed up today...none of your defense thought it was worth the trip and your offense didn't feel as though they wanted to play 4 quarters. xlolx

WTF? Is the Big Fluffy seriously trying to win outside of their own conference? The top 3 Big Fluff teams were in charitable moods saturday:

Montana gives up 48 points.

Eastern Washington gives up 44 points.

Weber gives up 38 points...and scored ZERO points!

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Do you Big Sky folks know that you can put 11 people on the defensive side of the ball? xeyebrowx

All of the pre-playoff talk about how the Big Fluffy defenses are underrated because the offenses score points....RIOT!

It must be nice to cruise through the regular season having to face only one tough team...and the Griz don't get to face anyone. xrotatehx



Uhmmmm. I missed the Delaware score today, how did that go?

Since you resorted to smack Cluck. xreadx

[uofmman1122]

I like how people look at the SDSU Montana game and act like Montana can't play defense.

Why don't you ask the SDSU fans whether or not a team that put up 40 unanswered points can play defense?

Unless you're telling me SDSU's offense sucks, which I doubt, then you can't say that about Montana. Unless SDSU just stopped playing, I don't buy your theory.

We put up 61 on one of the best defenses in the country, 41 in the second half, and held a good offense scoreless (and mostly first down-less) for the last 25 minutes of play. 21 of their points came with less than ten yards of field in front of them.

If we didn't know how to play defense, we would've not even come close to winning.

Keep hating all you want, but it's not gonna bring us down. xcoffeex xthumbsupx

[uofmman1122]

I like how people look at the SDSU Montana game and act like Montana can't play defense.

Why don't you ask the SDSU fans whether or not a team that put up 40 unanswered points can play defense?

Unless you're telling me SDSU's offense sucks, which I doubt, then you can't say that about Montana. Unless SDSU just stopped playing, I don't buy your theory.

We put up 61 on one of the best defenses in the country, 41 in the second half, and held a good offense scoreless (and mostly first down-less) for the last 25 minutes of play. 21 of their points came with less than ten yards of field in front of them.

If we didn't know how to play defense, we would've not even come close to winning.

Keep hating all you want, but it's not gonna bring us down. xcoffeex xthumbsupxAlso, thought this would help illustrate, as well:

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/Marty_Grant1122/DOMINATION.jpg

That's the offensive production after SDSU was up 48-21. Yeah, we can't play defense. xrolleyesx

[caribbeanhen]

True. Can't deny that. But, regardless, still shows the Big Sky is a one trick pony, which is what the haters (like me) have been claiming all year.

all year? how about all decade

[caribbeanhen]

Home teams went 7-1 in the first round....just sayin'.

and who did that home team lose against?

[caribbeanhen]

You CAA fans crack me up. You would think the App State would have your attitude considering the championships they have won in recent history.

.

they do,

[caribbeanhen]

Lovely, this is one of those quotes that reminds me why as a Griz fan, I don't enjoy the majority of my time on AGS. I purposely only go to the FCS Discussion board as I dispise smack talk. Now is the above comment "smack-light"? Sure, I'll give you that, but it is smack none the less and I grow tired and weary of these comments as i don't reciprocate in that type of banter.

I'm probably just being overly sensative being from the Big Fluffy and all, but I sure would rather have clear headed discussions on this board rather than the continued bashing of each others programs, conference, fans etc... (yes, I see the irony in this...no need to point it out to me).

Maybe AGS should be renamed from Any Given Saturday to All Griz Slandering.xpeacex

sterotype True of false
East coast fans are more bravado in your face and outwardly passionate while west coast fans are generally more laid back and sometimes offended
it aint gonna change sir

[caribbeanhen]

Hmmmmmm. Delaware did how? xreadx this weekend? xcoffeex

why are Delaware fans still around? because we use these playoff games to boost our ego as they remind us of the struggles Montana (and all other other teams) would have in the CAA, and reinforce our opinion that 11-0 is a legal fraud

[AppMAN04]

Either way that many points should not be scored in one game, in the playoffs!! Good D maybe!! Good offense Maybe!! Ready for teams on the East coast DOUBT IT!!

[YoUDeeMan]

Uhmmmm. I missed the Delaware score today, how did that go?

Since you resorted to smack Cluck. xreadx

Thin air, indeed! xlolx Memory problems today?

I'll help...post #84. xnodx

It is cute that the big bear is trying to protect their little den mates, but let's not forget why UD is out of the playoffs...they play in the CAA.

UD would have beaten half the playoff field if they had been invited...and the only reason they were not invited is that they play in a good conference and have to face good teams all the time. And yes, we lose...just as the Griz and their little cousin Fluffettes would every year if they were in the CAA.

Face it, one of your Fluff fans is posting that they didn't have a problem with their conference mate going to SFA and losing by 11...it was not unexpected. xeekx

The CAA folks expect their teams to go on the road and win...see UNH dismantling McNeese.

That is the difference...we know our teams are good.

[Green26]

In the past 10 years (to my recollection), Montana is 7-3 against CAA teams, including 1-1 with Richmond, 1-1 with JMU, and 1-0 with UNH.

[caribbeanhen]

In the past 10 years (to my recollection), Montana is 7-3 against CAA teams, including 1-1 with Richmond, 1-1 with JMU, and 1-0 with UNH.

sounds like an "on the bubble" team, not exactly 11-0...that's all I am saying

[GrizDen]

and who did that home team lose against?

That would be New Hampshire, you can probably find a thread here on that game as well. We get it, the CAA is the best conference. Going by the seeds, I guess it will be a Richmond/Villanova final. The playoffs are always interesting, so if it's all the same to you, I'll continue to follow the games and see who wins on the field.

[GrizDen]

sterotype True of false
East coast fans are more bravado in your face

Overcompensating for something?

[kalm]

This simply proves a point I tried to make on the BSC post: this conference is one team, and one team only. Montana gets hurt being connected to this conference. Montana went undefeated and were surpassed by SIU and Nova who lossed games. Why? Because the level of comp they face is not up to par. They are the Boise St. of the FCS. Luckily for them they have the tradition and fan base they do...Montana...go independent.

EWU alone in six playoff games over the last 6 seasons has won twice at seeded teams (one of those by 29 points) and lost by 1 point (SHSU '04), 3 (runner up UNI in '05), 3 (NC ASU '07), and 11 (yesterday). Yesterday's loss was our worst of the last 4 playoff losses with an average losing margin of 4 pts. Oh, and 5 out of those 6 were on the road (as most BSC at large games are).

Weber, NAU have playoff road wins this decade, and MSU also has a home win.

...But nice try. xthumbsupx

[pather]

SF wasnt seeded....

[Tod]

SF wasnt seeded....

Nobody said they were.

[pather]

Nobody said they were.

kinda seemed like it after reading it.

but now i read it again and i can see how he meant it.

my bad

[ValleyChamp]

The big sky sucks. Thats what happened...

[HenZoneNation]

OK Kalm you explain to me the benifit Montana has playing in your conference (aside from dominating year in and year out)? If other teams in the conference are any good, how is it during this run that not a single team has been able to consistently match them? It's not like this has been 2,3, or even four years. Why is it that they go undefeated and have two teams with one loss pass them in the standings. What benifit is there?

Truth be told the MVC is a better conference than you and at this point you'd have to say that SoCo is either as good, or slightly better than the BSC...

How's that for a try?

[kalm]

OK Kalm you explain to me the benifit Montana has playing in your conference (aside from dominating year in and year out)? If other teams in the conference are any good, how is it during this run that not a single team has been able to consistently match them? It's not like this has been 2,3, or even four years. Why is it that they go undefeated and have two teams with one loss pass them in the standings. What benifit is there?

Truth be told the MVC is a better conference than you and at this point you'd have to say that SoCo is either as good, or slightly better than the BSC...

How's that for a try?

Just as lame.

Look I'm sure griz fans are greatful for your concern but the football attendance, conference titles, home playoff games, in state rivalries, auto bids in other sports, and national championships indicate a fairly healthy program without a great need for further benefit.

As for your mvc and socon comparison it's debateable but a reasoned response would be that all three are quite equal and you could lump the slc in there as well.

[kalm]

And if Montana was really concerned about a lack of competition they could always a couple of home games and beef up their ooc. But why?

[89Hen]

Hmmmmmm. Delaware did how? xreadx this weekend? xcoffeex
Didn't lose. But what do they have to do with this? If we played your game, we'd have had only our 3 Spider fans from January until September. xcoffeex

[Tod]

OK Kalm you explain to me the benifit Montana has playing in your conference (aside from dominating year in and year out)? If other teams in the conference are any good, how is it during this run that not a single team has been able to consistently match them? It's not like this has been 2,3, or even four years. Why is it that they go undefeated and have two teams with one loss pass them in the standings. What benifit is there?

Truth be told the MVC is a better conference than you and at this point you'd have to say that SoCo is either as good, or slightly better than the BSC...

How's that for a try?

Really? What benefit is there? Are you saying that if Delaware was in the same situation, you'd be all for trying to change it somehow?

We didn't have the power to intentionally create the BSC as it exists today. Griz fans were highly disappointed that SDSU and NDSU were not chosen for membership (still are). Yes, we were all for strengthening the conference by adding those two quality programs. But it didn't happen. So, what can we do? We are fortunate enough that we don't need to go on the road and play an FBS team for the money. I don't like playing D II teams, but they sure appreciate the opportunity to play up, just like all of the FCS teams do when they need/want to.

I think you know the answer to this: "Why is it that they go undefeated and have two teams with one loss pass them in the standings"? Tougher schedule, more impressive wins, etc. But so what? Boise State and other non-elite FBS teams deal with that all the time. But tell me how that hurts the Griz. We still got the #1 seed, and polls don't mean ***** in FCS football. Seeds DO! Further, if we received a lower seed, we would have dealt with it. If we were the #3 seed, I'd say "Damn, that D II game probably cost us". Fortunately, it didn't. BTW, had we blown out Idaho State, I have little doubt we would have been ranked #1. That narrow win over a winless (at the time) ISU cost us in the polls. Our "weak" schedule did not.


Truth be told the MVC is a better conference than you and at this point you'd have to say that SoCo is either as good, or slightly better than the BSC...

How's that for a try?

That's a very poor try, to be honest. What do you base that on? You seem to base your argument on the fact that the Big Sky lost two games vs the MVC and SoCon only losing one on Saturday.

Do you think that the third place team from the SoCon or the MVC could have traveled to W&M and beat them? It's true that Weber stunk in that game, but tell me what team that was left out of the playoffs and met the minimum qualifications to be included would have won that game. I can't think of one.

[nwFL Griz]

This whole thread reminds me why the CAA fans are the SEC fans of the FCS, and why I can't stand them either.

[Houndawg]

Really? What benefit is there? Are you saying that if Delaware was in the same situation, you'd be all for trying to change it somehow?

We didn't have the power to intentionally create the BSC as it exists today. Griz fans were highly disappointed that SDSU and NDSU were not chosen for membership (still are). Yes, we were all for strengthening the conference by adding those two quality programs. But it didn't happen. So, what can we do? We are fortunate enough that we don't need to go on the road and play an FBS team for the money. I don't like playing D II teams, but they sure appreciate the opportunity to play up, just like all of the FCS teams do when they need/want to.

I think you know the answer to this: "Why is it that they go undefeated and have two teams with one loss pass them in the standings"? Tougher schedule, more impressive wins, etc. But so what? Boise State and other non-elite FBS teams deal with that all the time. But tell me how that hurts the Griz. We still got the #1 seed, and polls don't mean ***** in FCS football. Seeds DO! Further, if we received a lower seed, we would have dealt with it. If we were the #3 seed, I'd say "Damn, that D II game probably cost us". Fortunately, it didn't. BTW, had we blown out Idaho State, I have little doubt we would have been ranked #1. That narrow win over a winless (at the time) ISU cost us in the polls. Our "weak" schedule did not.



That's a very poor try, to be honest. What do you base that on? You seem to base your argument on the fact that the Big Sky lost two games vs the MVC and SoCon only losing one on Saturday.

Do you think that the third place team from the SoCon or the MVC could have traveled to W&M and beat them? It's true that Weber stunk in that game, but tell me what team that was left out of the playoffs and met the minimum qualifications to be included would have won that game. I can't think of one.

I think UNI would have played them tougher. We'll never know, and UNI did peak early.

[back2back]

Who, if anyone, played defense in the Big Score (sky) this year?

[rcny46]

This whole thread reminds me why the CAA fans are the SEC fans of the FCS, and why I can't stand them either.

Yeah,I guess it's fair to put us all in the same boat.Actually,I don't quite understand all this conference loyalty stuff,and never really cared much how other CAA teams did in the postseason.During the regular season we're all at each other's throats and that is supposed to change in the playoffs? If and when UNH is eliminated,I just enjoy this level of football,nothing else.

[Tod]

I think UNI would have played them tougher. We'll never know, and UNI did peak early.

I agree on both points. But there was really no way to know that before the playoffs. I spent some time looking at I-AA/FCS history today, and Weber's loss, while being bad, was not even close to the worst loss in the playoffs. That stuff happens.

[Tod]

Who, if anyone, played defense in the Big Score (sky) this year?

Every team. That one was easy. xrolleyesx

If you want to look up the scores and do the math, go for it. I'm certainly not going to do it for you.

I do wonder, though. If the average score of a Big Sky game turned out to be 35-24, and the average score of a CAA game was 28-17, would you really have the ammo you seek?

[Husky4Life]

True. Can't deny that. But, regardless, still shows the Big Sky is a one trick pony, which is what the haters (like me) have been claiming all year.

W&M finished it's regular season with UNH & @Richmond. In comparison, Weber State might as well have been a bye week.

[Tribe]

The only thing that matters is which team is the last one standing. Apparently the SoCon isn't as good as the CAA but App State won it three years in a row so it doesn't matter. There is only one champion and the bottom line is since 2000 the SoCon has four of those champions, which ranks ahead of both the CAA and Big Sky.

[uofmman1122]

Who, if anyone, played defense in the Big Score (sky) this year?You know what's really funny?

We were saying the same thing about the SoCon in 2006 and 2007, yet App State won it all both years.

[Husky4Life]

The only thing that matters is which team is the last one standing. Apparently the SoCon isn't as good as the CAA but App State won it three years in a row so it doesn't matter. There is only one champion and the bottom line is since 2000 the SoCon has four of those champions, which ranks ahead of both the CAA and Big Sky.

That 3 year run also included a healthy dose of defeating CAA opponents in the playoffs.

[soccerguy315]

Big Sky gave up 43 points per game in the first round. Ironically the team that gave up the most was the only one to win.
Big Sky scored 27 points per game in the first round.

CAA gave up 14 points per game in the first round.
CAA scored 34 points per game in the first round.

what does that prove, if anything? I don't know. But those are the numbers (according to my mental math, at least, lol)

[Big Al]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.

PS - SDSU, you gotta do more than just be happy to make it to the playoffs! You gotta step on some Griz necks!

PPS - I'm sure the CAA kids are crowing about getting 4 teams into the next round but when 2 of those wins are against WSU and Holy Cross, well let's just color me less than impressed. Good conference -- probably even the best in FCS -- but they aren't unbeatable or even head and shoulders above the rest.

[Big Al]

That 3 year run also included a healthy dose of defeating CAA opponents in the playoffs.

It also includes a healthy dose of beating MVFC, Patriot, MEAC, Southland & Big Sky opponents. That kind of goes along with winning the NC.

When was the last time a team went undefeated and won the NC? My point being some teams are better than others but none are unbeatable.

[uofmman1122]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.Bitter, much? xeyebrowx

[Tod]

It also includes a healthy dose of beating MVFC, Patriot, MEAC, Southland & Big Sky opponents. That kind of goes along with winning the NC.

When was the last time a team went undefeated and won the NC? My point being some teams are better than others but none are unbeatable.

I don't remember the year, but Georgia Southern did it once, the only team to do it.

[Tod]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.

PS - SDSU, you gotta do more than just be happy to make it to the playoffs! You gotta step on some Griz necks!

PPS - I'm sure the CAA kids are crowing about getting 4 teams into the next round but when 2 of those wins are against WSU and Holy Cross, well let's just color me less than impressed. Good conference -- probably even the best in FCS -- but they aren't unbeatable or even head and shoulders above the rest.

Would you like to make a wager on that?

[GolfingGriz]

I don't remember the year, but Georgia Southern did it once, the only team to do it.

Marshall did it in 1996 too. I think GSU may have done it twice, not certain though.

[09griz]

If the Griz end up going to or winning the NC are you still gonna bitch about them being over rated? Seems like this happened last year too. Griz beat the #1 seed at JMU and lose in the NC and somehow they were **** all along?

Sure we struggled in Saturday's game big time. However, didn't we win? In the playoffs you can't talk about how someone gave up the game or should have beaten you...This isn't the FBS guys! 40 unanswered points!

It isn't the mark of the best team in 1-AA history, but it is the mark of a team that (while not consistent enough yet) has the ability to do what they have to do to WIN THE GAME.

[09griz]

Go watch Florida go to the NC and play another SEC opponent if you wanna be happy with what "should have been".

[IABison]

Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.


xeyebrowx

Why? What have they not done that they were supposed to do? Because they were the number one seed and didn't win as convincingly enough as you think they should have?

Then maybe you can help me out... Lets go back to 2007 when your precious purple panthers were the number one seed. Maybe a New Hampshire fan can help me out but IIRC it took a last second touchdown for you guys to advance. Can you post a link to the thread where you said your panthers were overrated?

Or maybe moving on to the following week when they were bounced quite easily by Delaware. Same thing... can you post a link to a thread where you said they were overrated?

Oh... I think I get it.

Only the griz can be overrated...

xcoffeex

[HenZoneNation]

Tod,
Your conference didn't hurt you this time...but it could have. If you look into my arguement I'm actually complimenting your program. I think it's a shame that you get penalized for who you play. This year, you happened to be ranked #3 and you stayed at #3 and that gave you a chance at a top seed. But what if you had started out the year ranked 5th or 6th? The initial ranking at the start of the year could not favor you on a particular year and then what? It could very well cost you that top seed...and unfairly so. Weaker conferences do hurt teams like Boise St. and TCU, and one day it's gonna do the same to you. I'd hate to see that happen. I think UM is an awesome, awesome program.

You're correct about Division II schools. I hate playing WCU. We got nothing out of the game but a useless win and a season ending injury to our second best offensive player. Totally useless.

The MVC is a better conference. Teams like SIU, UNI, and now SDSU, are on par with your program, maybe not as good year in and year out, but on par, and are definetly better than the next best schools in your conference. Their top three, year in and year out may not surpass UM but they do surpass Weber and the rest of the pack. UNI doesn't get shutout at W&M, and i think they would probably have defeated Stephen F. Austin. They generally are a very good team who suffered from some mental lapses.

[Houndawg]

xeyebrowx

Why? What have they not done that they were supposed to do? Because they were the number one seed and didn't win as convincingly enough as you think they should have?

Then maybe you can help me out... Lets go back to 2007 when your precious purple panthers were the number one seed. Maybe a New Hampshire fan can help me out but IIRC it took a last second touchdown for you guys to advance. Can you post a link to the thread where you said your panthers were overrated?

Or maybe moving on to the following week when they were bounced quite easily by Delaware. Same thing... can you post a link to a thread where you said they were overrated?

Oh... I think I get it.

Only the griz can be overrated...

xcoffeex


Actually there is another team that has been overrated, they joined the MVC to great fanfare and myriad predictions of conference dominance and immediate playoff success...........:o

[IABison]

Actually there is another team that has been overrated, they joined the MVC to great fanfare and myriad predictions of conference dominance and immediate playoff success...........:o

xrolleyesx

Awesome.

I would ask you to find a thread where I said we were going to roll the MVFC but its not there so I won't.

It may come as a surprise to you, but a few vocal fans on a message board does not an entire fan base make.

But great job not answering my question... xthumbsupx

[Houndawg]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.

PS - SDSU, you gotta do more than just be happy to make it to the playoffs! You gotta step on some Griz necks!

PPS - I'm sure the CAA kids are crowing about getting 4 teams into the next round but when 2 of those wins are against WSU and Holy Cross, well let's just color me less than impressed. Good conference -- probably even the best in FCS -- but they aren't unbeatable or even head and shoulders above the rest.

I don't see SFA winning at Wa-Griz in December.

[89Hen]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. They won't make it past round 2.

PS - SDSU, you gotta do more than just be happy to make it to the playoffs! You gotta step on some Griz necks!

PPS - I'm sure the CAA kids are crowing about getting 4 teams into the next round but when 2 of those wins are against WSU and Holy Cross, well let's just color me less than impressed. Good conference -- probably even the best in FCS -- but they aren't unbeatable or even head and shoulders above the rest.
xeyebrowx In the first part of your post you say how Weber and EWU really weren't very good. Many people thought the Big Sky was the second best conference in I-AA. The CAA had four teams all advance. Pretty darn close to:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bI5IqBJuPL4/SfcQsVaN1xI/AAAAAAAACYo/p7JQT7P07Yw/s320/head+shoulders.jpg

[Big Al]

The past has no bearing on the present. #1 seeds don't almost lose to Idaho State or allow SDSU score 48 points that requires a 2nd half comeback to win.

Oh-ver-ray-ted.

Lots of teams can be over-rated. UNI certainly was at the beginning of the year. Heck, they may be over-rated right now, although I don't see what bearing this has to do with the Griz being over-rated.

If it makes you feel better I said on this board, during the season, that the Bison were better than their record. I guess that makes them under-rated?

xthumbsupx


xeyebrowx

Why? What have they not done that they were supposed to do? Because they were the number one seed and didn't win as convincingly enough as you think they should have?

Then maybe you can help me out... Lets go back to 2007 when your precious purple panthers were the number one seed. Maybe a New Hampshire fan can help me out but IIRC it took a last second touchdown for you guys to advance. Can you post a link to the thread where you said your panthers were overrated?

Or maybe moving on to the following week when they were bounced quite easily by Delaware. Same thing... can you post a link to a thread where you said they were overrated?

Oh... I think I get it.

Only the griz can be overrated...

xcoffeex

[Tod]

Marshall did it in 1996 too. I think GSU may have done it twice, not certain though.

xoopsx

How could I have forgotten that? Both Marshall and Montana were undefeated going into that game.

:o:o:o

[Tod]

xoopsx

How could I have forgotten that? Both Marshall and Montana were undefeated going into that game.

:o:o:o

OK, if I recall correctly, GSU is actually the only I-AA/FCS team to go 16-0 in a season, winning it all during a 12 game regular season. I think that's where my confusion came from.

Unless I'm wrong now, of course. :D

[Grrrrriz]

The past has no bearing on the present. #1 seeds don't almost lose to Idaho State or allow SDSU score 48 points that requires a 2nd half comeback to win.

Oh-ver-ray-ted.

Lots of teams can be over-rated. UNI certainly was at the beginning of the year. Heck, they may be over-rated right now, although I don't see what bearing this has to do with the Griz being over-rated.

If it makes you feel better I said on this board, during the season, that the Bison were better than their record. I guess that makes them under-rated?

xthumbsupx

I don't think anything less than one of the top 4 teams in the country score 34 in a quarter. Or mount a 27 point comeback, or score the last 40 points...against one of the top defenses in the FCS. But you ignore those stats to benefit your argument, most likely because you don't know what you are talking about. As well, its not like we gave up 500 yards. We gave up only 324 yards. Less than 200 passing, and 126 rushing. Its not like we let them run all over us, we gave them a short field, over, and over.

Losing teams with more yards than SDSU on Saturday:

Holy Cross had more yards against Villanova with 393

Elon had more yards at Richmond with 336

Mcneese had more yards in a blowout loss with 326

Eastern Washington had more yards at SFA at 595

So what is the point about the Griz having no defense, or being overrated? You don't know what you are talking about...you just looked at the score and made a stupid assumption. I really don't understan.........actually, after looking at your avatar, I see the problem...Griz envy.

[Tod]

Tod,
Your conference didn't hurt you this time...but it could have. If you look into my arguement I'm actually complimenting your program. I think it's a shame that you get penalized for who you play. This year, you happened to be ranked #3 and you stayed at #3 and that gave you a chance at a top seed. But what if you had started out the year ranked 5th or 6th? The initial ranking at the start of the year could not favor you on a particular year and then what? It could very well cost you that top seed...and unfairly so. Weaker conferences do hurt teams like Boise St. and TCU, and one day it's gonna do the same to you. I'd hate to see that happen. I think UM is an awesome, awesome program.

You're correct about Division II schools. I hate playing WCU. We got nothing out of the game but a useless win and a season ending injury to our second best offensive player. Totally useless.

The MVC is a better conference. Teams like SIU, UNI, and now SDSU, are on par with your program, maybe not as good year in and year out, but on par, and are definetly better than the next best schools in your conference. Their top three, year in and year out may not surpass UM but they do surpass Weber and the rest of the pack. UNI doesn't get shutout at W&M, and i think they would probably have defeated Stephen F. Austin. They generally are a very good team who suffered from some mental lapses.

But you say our conference could have hurt us, while it never has. Ever. The only thing that kept us from #1 this year was a very poor showing against ISU. Had we blown them out, we would have been ranked #1, I believe.

I don't believe the MVC is better, top to bottom, than the Big Sky. The difference is, as of late, that SIU and UNI seem to trade the top spot, while UM has dominated the Big Sky. And you really seem to be giving a lot of credence to SDSU, whose playoff history is now 0-1. xconfusedx Yeah, they were a very good team this year, but a couple of years ago NDSU had a helluva team and their fans were very upset that they couldn't compete in the playoffs. Now? Average team. How do we know that this isn't the best SDSU team we'll see for the next 10 or 20 years? We don't. Let's give it some time and see what happens.

I can only agree with you that UNI would have probably had a better showing against W&M than WSU had, but again, the selection committee could not foresee the future, and UNI did not have a quality win. Blowouts like that happen sometimes in the playoffs. Let's not forget that W&M is a bonafide title contender and WSU was the last team in. I'm not making excuses for Weber's poor showing, but there is no team in the country, left out of the playoffs, that would have beaten Bill and Mar. They're too good. IMO, there are only about five to seven teams in the country who would have had a chance in that game, and all are still in the playoffs.

[HenZoneNation]

This is where I believe our philosophies differ which is probably why we can't seem to agree on this subject. Weber St being the last seed is by no mean justification for losing 38-0 to a team that is not even hosting a second round game. Even William Mary were the #1 seed that wouldn't warrent that. We barely made the playoffs in 07, Richmond barely made it in 08. You can call me East Coast biased if you want, maybe I am, however I think the reason why you see teams frm the CAA year in and year out do well in the playoffs is because they play very good teams all year and can't afford to develop bad habits (like UD has the last two years) and win. You guys have played in four NC games this decade alone. That is incredible. You've won one...still great. But maybe things turn out differently in the other appearences if the teams you played week in and week out gave you a little bit more for you dollar. Maybe you don't have to have that incredible come back last week, because if you were tested week in and week out that doesn't happen. Who knows?

Honestly I know there are people who think the BSC is very weak, some who think it's very strong. I determine a conference by this...is there 1 king of the mountain? If so that shows the conference to be slightly flawed from top to bottom. 2) If you took that one school out of the conference, how much would it change the complexity of the conference. Meaning this. You take out SIU or UNI or SDSU (a school you yourself said you wanted and would strengthen the conference and a school that many people at UNI believe to be a very tough team) you still have two very good teams in the MVC. You take Nova, or JMU, or W&M, or UD, or Richmond out of the CAA South, that doesn't change the conference much. You take Montana out of the BSC and what do you have?

I'm pulling for you guys this week and I really think UM is the model that many schools should follow, especially your stadium. Good luck.

[kalm]

Tod,
Your conference didn't hurt you this time...but it could have. If you look into my arguement I'm actually complimenting your program. I think it's a shame that you get penalized for who you play. This year, you happened to be ranked #3 and you stayed at #3 and that gave you a chance at a top seed. But what if you had started out the year ranked 5th or 6th? The initial ranking at the start of the year could not favor you on a particular year and then what? It could very well cost you that top seed...and unfairly so. Weaker conferences do hurt teams like Boise St. and TCU, and one day it's gonna do the same to you. I'd hate to see that happen. I think UM is an awesome, awesome program.

You're correct about Division II schools. I hate playing WCU. We got nothing out of the game but a useless win and a season ending injury to our second best offensive player. Totally useless.

The MVC is a better conference. Teams like SIU, UNI, and now SDSU, are on par with your program, maybe not as good year in and year out, but on par, and are definetly better than the next best schools in your conference. Their top three, year in and year out may not surpass UM but they do surpass Weber and the rest of the pack. UNI doesn't get shutout at W&M, and i think they would probably have defeated Stephen F. Austin. They generally are a very good team who suffered from some mental lapses.

Montana's conference affiliation did nothing to hurt their seeding or their chances of winning it all. You can base your biased assumptions on Weber's one game poor showing all you want, but there's a reason the committee selected three teams from the BSC and that has a lot to do with Weber's strength of schedule and the conference GPI. We were a hot team three years ago and boat raced #2 McNeese at home - that doesn't mean the SLC is a weak conference that should never deserve a seed again.

And why do you think UNI would have beat SFA when, like Delaware, they beat no one else of consequence all year?

The MVC is a fine conference and very comparable to the Big Sky except it lacks one dominant team. And for the record, going back to 2004, the BSC is now 3-1 against the MVC/Gateway in playoff games.

[putter]

Can't argue with you Hen. I am more disappointed in the showing of Weber than EWU. When you go on the road in the playoffs you are the underdog and, percieved the weaker team. History has shown the road teams have not fared well in the playoffs. Eastern played hard but had no D which is who they were all year. Weber's Higgins got rattled, and unfortunately, played like he did at times this year. Montana is stepping up its OOC schedule so we will see what they are made of in the years to come.

[89Hen]

Montana is stepping up its OOC schedule so we will see what they are made of in the years to come.
xnodx xthumbsupx

[Native]

This simply proves a point I tried to make on the BSC post: this conference is one team, and one team only. Montana gets hurt being connected to this conference. Montana went undefeated and were surpassed by SIU and Nova who lossed games. Why? Because the level of comp they face is not up to par. They are the Boise St. of the FCS. Luckily for them they have the tradition and fan base they do...Montana...go independent.

The Big Sky Conference is 9-2 in FCS out of conference play for 2009, 10-4 including the first round of the playoffs. Regular season victories included a 2-1 record versus the Great West Conference champion UC Davis. Excluding Montana, BSC teams were 7-2 versus FCS teams in the regular season.

The Big Sky was 4-2 in the playoffs last year.

This is not the smack board, HZN. xnonox

[HenZoneNation]

Not talking smack Native...who were the teams they played out of conference? I haven't seen much from other conferences thus far this year outside of SoCo, MVC, and the CAA. You were 4-2 playoffs last year but Montana won three of them. How good is UC Davis. I must cionfess ignorance when it comes to the Great West Conference. If they were that good, shouldn't they have made the playoffs?

[Tailbone]

I, for one, am entirely unsurprised by any of the Big Sky teams that made it into the playoffs. Weber didn't deserve to be in the field, EWU was good but not that good and Montana is over-rated. .... They won't make it past round 2.

thus spake Nostradamus. xcoffeex


SDSU, you gotta do more than just be happy to make it to the playoffs! You gotta step on some Griz necks!


Ha! This from the guy whose team pissed down its collective leg in the final minutes of their last play-off game. xnonox

[GtFllsGriz]

I read every post and it is hard to not get defensive of your conference (BSC). However, I remember thinking as I saw the score on the board saying SDSU 41, UM 14; and then seeing the other BSC scores being posted and thinking that maybe UM and the BSC were over rated. It is hard to constantly be defending your conference when your brethren drop the ball so to speak. But then the comeback and what does that do to your theory?

There are so many nuances to each arguement posted that there is no way to clearly get your head around any one of them and come away with a definitive answer.

It has long been said that that the Griz get every teams best effort. That may be true and explain how they all look so good when they play the Griz tough. It has been said that the Griz play to whatever level of their competition. That may be true and explain a tough game with ISU.

It has been said that the playoff's are not a true playoff because of the regionlization which might explain a very tough game with SDSU, a very tough team, while others played the lower quality teams.

It has been said that the CAA is so tough that only a handfull of other teams could compete in their conference. But I never see two CAA teams playing for the championship and they are about the size of two conferences.

I have seen some really good football played in the BSC this year. I submit that on any given Saturday that teams other than Montana would have won games in any other conference.

Every team has days when their players do not give their best performance. Every team has days when the unexplainable happens to them. Every team has days when turnovers turn a world beater into a normal team. That is football and that is why we tune in every week to see the unexplainable. To be the last team standing at the end of the season is miraculous on it's own merits. Given that no team is immune to poor play, injuries, bad breaks, bad calls etc. It takes a lot of good things happening, the right matchup, typically the home field advantage, depth, healthy key players to win the NC. Everyone else ends their season with a loss.

You can pound your conference chests all you want but I will submit that on any given Saturday we are all beatable by any team in the playoffs. The odds always favor the home team and there will be teams with depth and more quality players left standing at this time of the year. The point is there are only eight teams left standing and it makes little difference what conference they are from or how they got here. On any given consecutive Saturdays we could all have been eliminated and be watching everyone else play it out.

But then if we didn't like pounding our chest we could all be watching the truly competitive "Dancing With the Stars" and vote on the true champion. Oh wait, that's the FBS.

[Tailbone]

...#1 seeds don't almost lose to Idaho State or allow SDSU score 48 points that requires a 2nd half comeback to win.
........
?


Actually....
Montana is the #1 seed.
Montana almost lost to Idaho State ( I guess...if a win can ever be considered an "almost lost" xconfusedx).
Montana allowed SDSU to score 48 points that required a 2nd half comeback to win.

Guess you're wrong on all accounts.

It's not to late to sign up for UNI course: philosophy 110 (look it up)

[Native]

...Honestly I know there are people who think the BSC is very weak, some who think it's very strong. I determine a conference by this...is there 1 king of the mountain? If so that shows the conference to be slightly flawed from top to bottom. 2) If you took that one school out of the conference, how much would it change the complexity of the conference. Meaning this. You take out SIU or UNI or SDSU (a school you yourself said you wanted and would strengthen the conference and a school that many people at UNI believe to be a very tough team) you still have two very good teams in the MVC. You take Nova, or JMU, or W&M, or UD, or Richmond out of the CAA South, that doesn't change the conference much. You take Montana out of the BSC and what do you have? ....

Your analysis is deeply flawed. xrulesx

1. Montana is a great team and a great program, but they were beat in regular season play last year and had at least three close calls this year.

2. If you took Montana out of the Big Sky in 2009 the Big Sky would have been 7-2 in FCS out of conference games and sent at least two teams to the playoffs. By comparison, the Missouri Valley was only 11-5 in FCS out of conference games this year even with all the big dogs. By contrast, if you took UNI or SIU out of the MVFC, the conference would only have won 9 of 14 FCS OOC contests. Moreover SDSU, one of those "big dogs," lost to Cal Poly, a team beaten by two Big Sky teams.

3. Last year the MVFC was 1-2 in the playoffs. The Big Sky was 4-2. This year in the first round the BSC is 1-2 compared to the MVFC's 1-1.

4. The Big Sky has a history of national championship appearances, championships (Boise State, Idaho State, Montana State, Montana), and movement of the top teams to the FBS.

5. Using your own "King of the Mountain" criteria, a more apt comparison might be between the SOCON and the Big Sky, but even here the analysis fails, due to the extremely weak sisters in the SOCON compared to the BSC.

However, KUDOS to the CAA for another great year! Regardless of what happens in the playoffs, no other conference can compete with CAA results for 2009. xthumbsupx

[Tod]

This is where I believe our philosophies differ which is probably why we can't seem to agree on this subject. Weber St being the last seed is by no mean justification for losing 38-0 to a team that is not even hosting a second round game. Even William Mary were the #1 seed that wouldn't warrent that. We barely made the playoffs in 07, Richmond barely made it in 08. You can call me East Coast biased if you want, maybe I am, however I think the reason why you see teams frm the CAA year in and year out do well in the playoffs is because they play very good teams all year and can't afford to develop bad habits (like UD has the last two years) and win. You guys have played in four NC games this decade alone. That is incredible. You've won one...still great. But maybe things turn out differently in the other appearences if the teams you played week in and week out gave you a little bit more for you dollar. Maybe you don't have to have that incredible come back last week, because if you were tested week in and week out that doesn't happen. Who knows?

Honestly I know there are people who think the BSC is very weak, some who think it's very strong. I determine a conference by this...is there 1 king of the mountain? If so that shows the conference to be slightly flawed from top to bottom. 2) If you took that one school out of the conference, how much would it change the complexity of the conference. Meaning this. You take out SIU or UNI or SDSU (a school you yourself said you wanted and would strengthen the conference and a school that many people at UNI believe to be a very tough team) you still have two very good teams in the MVC. You take Nova, or JMU, or W&M, or UD, or Richmond out of the CAA South, that doesn't change the conference much. You take Montana out of the BSC and what do you have?

I'm pulling for you guys this week and I really think UM is the model that many schools should follow, especially your stadium. Good luck.

I think that the Big Sky is neither very strong nor very weak. The GPI says that the CAA is far and away number one. The Big Sky, SoCon and MVC are all bunched up within a point or so of each other at 2-4. I think there's only one "very strong" FCS conference right now.

The argument that the BSC is a "one trick pony" has some validity. And yes, I'm sure all Big Sky fans would like to see that change. That is really the only way we are "down" right now. We still haven't recovered from losing Boise State, Nevada and Idaho. Too bad the powers that be were too stupid to realize that bringing in the XDSU's would have been the way to go. Travel expenses be damned!

But, one trick pony or not, Montana IS a part of the Big Sky Conference, and if that's what continues to keep the Big Sky "highly" rated in the GPI, so be it. Hopefully, Big Sky football continues to improve (and I do think it's improving, just too slowly).

[Native]

Not talking smack Native...who were the teams they played out of conference? I haven't seen much from other conferences thus far this year outside of SoCo, MVC, and the CAA. You were 4-2 playoffs last year but Montana won three of them. How good is UC Davis. I must cionfess ignorance when it comes to the Great West Conference. If they were that good, shouldn't they have made the playoffs?

The reason no one from the Great West made the playoffs is because Big Sky teams including Weber, Northern Arizona, Sac State, Montana State, Eastern Washington, and even lowly Northern Colorado smashed the contenders in the regular season. The BSC was 8-2 vs the GWFC in 2009, 6-2 without Montana.

To answer your question, UC Davis is 26th in the GPI, one spot behind OVC champ and playoff team EIU, and ahead of Lafayette, Patriot champ and playoff team Holy Cross, Texas State, Prairie View, and Illinois State, the team that knocked UNI out of the playoffs. Until getting beaten by the BSC, GWFC teams UC Davis, Cal Poly, and Southern Utah all spent time in the GPI top 25.

Only one BSC OOC FCS triumph was over a weak team, when Northern Colorado beat San Diego. All 8 BSC victories over the GWFC were against GPI Top 50 teams. In stark contrast, 9 of the 11 MVFC wins were over GPI #62 Northeastern, #65 Sam Houston, #70 Tenn-Martin, #85 Austin Peay, #94 Wagner, #99 SE Missouri, #102 Murray State, and #115 St Francis.

The BSC cannot compare to the CAA, but does compare favorably to any other FCS conference.

[89Hen]

2. If you took Montana out of the Big Sky in 2009 the Big Sky would have been 7-2 in FCS out of conference games

4. The Big Sky has a history of national championship appearances, championships (Boise State, Idaho State, Montana State, Montana), and movement of the top teams to the FBS.
Tell me you're kidding with using championships from the early 80's and from a team that left the Big Sky 15 years ago. xlolx

And it's 7-4 OOC. Which one was the marquis win?

Northern Colorado 31 - San Diego 12
Northern Arizona 42 - Southern Utah 39
Eastern Washington 41 - Southern Utah 28
Montana State 31 - South Dakota 24 (OT)
Northern Colorado 21 - South Dakota 17
Weber State 47 - Cal Poly 14
Sacramento State 31 - UC Davis 28

Cal Poly 38 - Sacramento State 19
UC Davis 34 - Portland State 31
William & Mary 38 - Weber State 0
Stephen F. Austin 44 - Eastern Washington 33

[HenZoneNation]

Not flawed at all Native...

1) The Big Sky had some great, great teams that have all left save for Montana.

2) The MVC has had two teams this past decade advance to the semi-finals.

3) Last year, without Montana you're 1-1, MVC 2-2.

4) Since 2000, outside of Montana the BSC is 5-10 with not a single other teams, aside UM advancing past the second round. What's good about that? The SoCon, and MVC have had multiple teams advance beyond thatin this decade.

5) There should be close calls if the conference is any good...in fact there should be very few blow-outs and more wins by other schools against UM. You can't celebrate near victories. Although Weber did have a big win last year, so maybe that gap is shrinking.

I hope so, because I love the FCS and I like seeing different teams make the playoffs every year. It makes it interesting.

Tod:

Very good arguemnet...Another Montana made the post that UM would be at the top in ever conference including the CAA...Itend to agree. He also mentioned that the big problem with UM is they play to the level of their comp. That isn't good if you're playing weker teams. I do however think that UM is the real deal and I wouldn't be surprised if they end up in the NC. Good luck Saturday...One day I hope to visit the UM...your stadium is sick.

[fltheadgriz]

4) Since 2000, outside of Montana the BSC is 5-10 with not a single other teams, aside UM advancing past the second round. What's good about that?

Well given that due to regionalization those BSC teams have to play the Griz in the second round then (when only 2 teams from the BSC) this becomes a rather mute point, IMO.

[Native]

Tell me you're kidding with using championships from the early 80's and from a team that left the Big Sky 15 years ago. xlolx

And it's 7-4 OOC. Which one was the marquis win?

Northern Colorado 31 - San Diego 12
Northern Arizona 42 - Southern Utah 39
Eastern Washington 41 - Southern Utah 28
Montana State 31 - South Dakota 24 (OT)
Northern Colorado 21 - South Dakota 17
Weber State 47 - Cal Poly 14
Sacramento State 31 - UC Davis 28

Cal Poly 38 - Sacramento State 19
UC Davis 34 - Portland State 31
William & Mary 38 - Weber State 0
Stephen F. Austin 44 - Eastern Washington 33

Do the same analysis to any other conference besides the CAA, and the Big Sky stands taller than the rest.

Every single one of the EIGHT BSC wins against GWFC GPI top 50 teams (you left out both of Montana's wins and the Eastern Washington victory over southern Utah) is a "marquis" win compared to the 9 of 11 MVFC wins against non-top 50 competition. Only two of the MVFC wins were over GPI top 50 teams: South Dakota and Georgia Southern.

Get your facts right!

[89Hen]

Every single one of the EIGHT BSC wins against GWFC GPI top 50 teams (you left out both of Montana's wins

Get your facts right!
Top 50? Is that good?

35 Southern Utah
43 South Dakota
44 Cal Poly
45 North Dakota

UC-Davis being 26 in the GPI is humorous at best. They were 5-5 vs DI with wins over Winston-Salem and Portland State out of conference.

As for Montana.... you left them out, not me. xpeacex


If you took Montana out of the Big Sky

[Houndawg]

Do the same analysis to any other conference besides the CAA, and the Big Sky stands taller than the rest.

Every single one of the EIGHT BSC wins against GWFC GPI top 50 teams (you left out both of Montana's wins and the eastern Washington victory over southern Utah) is a "marquis" win compared to the 9 of 11 MVFC wins against non-top 50 competition. Only two of the MVFC wins were over GPI top 50 teams: South Dakota and Georgia Southern.

Get your facts right!

And those two were blowouts, no? I think South Dakota took EWU to OT after getting schooled by UNI 66-7. SDSU put a similar whoopin' on GSU. The transitive property weakens your argument.

[Houndawg]

Montana's conference affiliation did nothing to hurt their seeding or their chances of winning it all. You can base your biased assumptions on Weber's one game poor showing all you want, but there's a reason the committee selected three teams from the BSC and that has a lot to do with Weber's strength of schedule and the conference GPI. We were a hot team three years ago and boat raced #2 McNeese at home - that doesn't mean the SLC is a weak conference that should never deserve a seed again.

And why do you think UNI would have beat SFA when, like Delaware, they beat no one else of consequence all year?

The MVC is a fine conference and very comparable to the Big Sky except it lacks one dominant team. And for the record, going back to 2004, the BSC is now 3-1 against the MVC/Gateway in playoff games.

One game poor showing? They didn't exactly rewrite history at Montana either.

When you get a deluxe booty whoopin' in your two biggest games.....well that might indicate a trend.

[Native]

Top 50? Is that good?

35 Southern Utah
43 South Dakota
44 Cal Poly
45 North Dakota

UC-Davis being 26 in the GPI is humorous at best. They were 5-5 vs DI with wins over Winston-Salem and Portland State out of conference.

As for Montana.... you left them out, not me. xpeacex

Yes. Top 50 is good compared to bottom 50.

No. You left UM out of the list you originally posted, and failed to count the EWU win over SUU. xnonox

BSC teams did not play #45 North Dakota this year. With the lone exception of Northern Colorado's game against #108 San Diego, and in contrast to the Missouri Valley, Big Sky teams did not play bottom 75 play teams, like GPI #62 Northeastern, #65 Sam Houston, #70 Tenn-Martin, and GPI bottom 50 teams #85 Austin Peay, #94 Wagner, #99 SE Missouri, #102 Murray State, and #115 St Francis.

If you want to take Montana out of the Big Sky, do the same to every other conference. The only conference that can withstand the pain is the CAA.

No peace for you :)

[89Hen]

Yes. Top 50 is good compared to bottom 50.

No. You left UM out of the list you originally posted, and failed to count the EWU win over SUU. xnonox


If you want to take Montana out of the Big Sky, do the same to every other conference. The only conference that can withstand the pain is the CAA.

No peace for you :)
Huh? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Maybe somebody else said take Montana out first, but it wasn't me, and I listed EWU > SUU....


If you took Montana out of the Big Sky in 2009 the Big Sky would have been 7-2 in FCS out of conference games

Tell me you're kidding with using championships from the early 80's and from a team that left the Big Sky 15 years ago. xlolx

And it's 7-4 OOC. Which one was the marquis win?

Northern Colorado 31 - San Diego 12
Northern Arizona 42 - Southern Utah 39
Eastern Washington 41 - Southern Utah 28
Montana State 31 - South Dakota 24 (OT)
Northern Colorado 21 - South Dakota 17
Weber State 47 - Cal Poly 14
Sacramento State 31 - UC Davis 28

Cal Poly 38 - Sacramento State 19
UC Davis 34 - Portland State 31
William & Mary 38 - Weber State 0
Stephen F. Austin 44 - Eastern Washington 33

xpeacex

[89Hen]

If you want to take Montana out of the Big Sky, do the same to every other conference. The only conference that can withstand the pain is the CAA.
BTW, you could take three out of the CAA and still compare it to the Big Sky WITH Montana still in it. xnodx

[mlbowl]

BTW, you could take three out of the CAA and still compare it to the Big Sky WITH Montana still in it. xnodx

I will not be your little dancing monkey!xlolx

[89Hen]

I will not be your little dancing monkey!xlolx
Not to worry... somebody will. :p

[mlbowl]

Not to worry... somebody will. :p

OH...I know!!!xlolx

[Green26]

Native (and others), you are putting up the good fight. However, it's almost impossible to argue with some of these guys, as they have their talking points and are not going to let facts and objectivity change their views.

Good tip offs for fans who don't know what they're talking about include:

1. Fans who focus on one game, and come to major conclusions or support their point. Case in point is the Weber loss to W&M.

2. Fans who focus too much on the scores of games, as opposed to wins or losses, and come to major conclusions or use it to make their point. On the other hand, I can understand the argument that a close loss to a I-A team says something positive about the I-AA team, altho I don't necessarily think that a bad loss to a I-A team means the I-AA team is not good.

3. Fans who try to compare scores of several games to conclude that one team is better than the other. An example would be that UNI must be the best team in I-AA because it only lost to a very good and ranked Iowa team by one point. Obviously, that one very good and close game didn't end up making UNI's season.

4. Fans who focus on one part of a game, as opposed to all of the game, to make conclusions or support their point. Generally, a game has to be viewed in total.

5. Fans who refuse to look at some of the objective sources that are available like the GPI and the rating services.

6. Fans who refuse to accept facts.

7. Fans who say the same thing over and over and over. I'm not talking about not backing away from a point in a discussion, but ones who have the same themes in many of their comments on either related or unrelated topics.

8. Fans who refuse to admit that the Big Sky is a strong conference, was strong this year, and has historically been one of the strongest conferences.

9. Fans who conclude that a conference is weak because one team is often at the top of the conference. While that can be the proper conclusion, one has to look deeper than that. For example, that can show that the team at the top is very strong and consistent. Look at USC in recent years, except for this year. App St's being at the top doesn't mean the SoCon is weak, nor was it when Georgia Southern was at the top. Same with Youngstown State.

10. Fans who make one-line comebacks with something they think undercuts your point.

11. Fans who think an antecdote undercuts your point or proves their point.

12. Fans who make bold statements, without doing their homework to see if the data supports their bold statement.

I'm amused about how the poster talking up the MVC has basically shown that the Big Sky was the stronger conference this year, in part because it turned out that the Big Sky's OOC schedule was stronger and the Big Sky did well in it. Too funny.

[89Hen]

13. Fans who make really long lists in the hope that when people see the length of the post, they'll skip it and take your word. :p

[wideright82]

13. Fans who make really long lists in the hope that when people see the length of the post, they'll skip it and take your word. :p

14. they use the word prolific to describe every offense in their conference and usually have a griz helmet as their avatar

[Silenoz]

13. Fans who make really long lists in the hope that when people see the length of the post, they'll skip it and take your word. :p

To be fair I got through 4 of them before the squirrels outside my window distracted me

[89Hen]

9. Fans who conclude that a conference is weak because one team is often at the top of the conference. While that can be the proper conclusion, one has to look deeper than that. For example, that can show that the team at the top is very strong and consistent. Look at USC in recent years, except for this year. App St's being at the top doesn't mean the SoCon is weak, nor was it when Georgia Southern was at the top. Same with Youngstown State.
None of those schools did it for 12 straight years. USC had 7 straight shares until this year, but don't forget that the Pac 10 was much maligned during those 7 years as USC and everyone else. At the same time, many people have agreed that the SEC is perhaps the best conference for a while. You'd have to go back to the early 70's to find a team that won that title even 5 years running. xpeacex

[Green26]

None of those schools did it for 12 straight years. USC had 7 straight shares until this year, but don't forget that the Pac 10 was much maligned during those 7 years as USC and everyone else. At the same time, many people have agreed that the SEC is perhaps the best conference for a while. You'd have to go back to the early 70's to find a team that won that title even 5 years running. xpeacex

So what? You have to dig deeper into the Big Sky conference. Using an antecdote, i.e. just USC, doesn't prove your point.

Go back and look at the conference rating services over the past 12 years. They will show you that the Big Sky was one of the top 3 rated conferences during that period of time.

I'm just not going to let you get away with expressing your opinion as if it's a fact, ignoring facts, or using only antecdotes.

[Green26]

13. Fans who make really long lists in the hope that when people see the length of the post, they'll skip it and take your word. :p


15. Fans who think their unsupported opinion is a fact.

[Green26]

14. they use the word prolific to describe every offense in their conference and usually have a griz helmet as their avatar

15. Fans who talk big, but whose team has never made it to the national championship game.

[bpcats]

I don't view the Big Sky as a one trick pony or a weak conference.

EWU, Weber, and MSU could play in any conference and win a lot of games. Sac State and Northern Colorado have made dramatic improvements over the last two years but must learn how to win consistently.

Idaho State played hard all year but injuries wiped out their team and Portland State self destructed and are changing coaches.

What happened this year in the playoffs was that EWU got exposed with its young defense as it had all year, and Higgins choked against a good William and Mary team.

In years past the Big Sky has done fairly well in the playoffs considering the lack of teams from our conference in the playoffs. EWU trounced McNeese State when they were #1, MSU trounced Furman and held its own against App State until the ill advised WR pass.

I will agree that the CAA is a toughest conference but I still don't think that they deserve to have all their teams in the playoffs. It gets a little bit ridiculous. You put 6 teams from one conference in the playoff you expect them to win more games than teams that only send one or two teams in just from a probability standpoint.

Last years Weber's team and EWU's team were a lot stronger than what they had this year but they still had their moments where they performed very well. This just happened to be the year where the Big Sky got 3 teams in.

If I had to rank conferences overall

CAA
MVFC (not this year since NDSU and UNI had off years)
Big Sky
Southern Conference

Montana has a great program but it is hard for the other conference teams when the the Big Sky traditionally only gets one team from this conference into the playoffs and they happen to be ranked in the top 4 in the nation every year.

[Silenoz]

Can we just end this thread by agreeing the CAA is better than the Big Sky? Would that appease people?

[paul1978]

Can we just end this thread by agreeing the CAA is better than the Big Sky? Would that appease people?

I can agree to that... this year. xlolx xnodx

[kalm]

Can we just end this thread by agreeing the CAA is better than the Big Sky? Would that appease people?

I agree with that, but the current discussion has been about Montana being the Notre Dame of FCS, going independent so they can improve their strength of schedule while the rest of the BSC loses their Montana based auto bid and eventually either moves down a division or becomes non schollie so that the east coast teams can play them and count the win as DI or in the case of a loss, tousle their hair, and give 'em a big brotherly atta boy. xthumbsupx

[Silenoz]

Only if we get some Notre Dame like stipulation, where 9 wins automatically gets us to the quarter-finals

[Native]

BTW, you could take three out of the CAA and still compare it to the Big Sky WITH Montana still in it. xnodx

I was going to concede that the CAA is the best conference of the decade, but first I performed a playoff analysis from 2000 through 2008, and discovered the CAA was second.

The winner is... SOCON!

Big Sly was third, followed by the Missouri Valley and Patriot.

Here are the numbers:

Conference, W-L, %, National Championships
SOCON, 33-16, 58.6%, 4
CAA, 40-27, 59.7%, 3
BSC, 21-18, 53.8%, 1
MVFC, 18-18, 50.0%, 0
Patriot, 6-11, 35.3%, 0

Congrats to all the power conferences of the Football Championship Subdivision. xthumbsupx

Factual corrections will be appreciated.

[Silenoz]

Well, Western Kentucky was part of the MFVC

edit: I mean Gateway

[HenZoneNation]

How's this for stats for you Green:

Since 2000

1) Socon has had 3 different schools reach the NC, 2 of those schools won. No need to state their winning percentage.

2) MVC has had one school reach the NC, 3 different schools reach the quarter finals. They have 50% winning percentage.

3) BSC, without Montana hasn't had a school advance past the second round with a 33% winning percentage in the playoffs. How's that for facts.

You can use formulas, GPI, grocery lists, blind statements about people not using facts as much as you want. Those facts don't lie. Saying ESU, Weber, and MSU could play in any conference and do well, is a blind statement. One game doesn't prove anything, but a decade does.

I know Neveda, and Boise St moved up to 1A, but if I'm Montana I just move out. What's to prove?

[Native]

Huh? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Maybe somebody else said take Montana out first, but it wasn't me, and I listed EWU > SUU....

xpeacex

Well in THAT case, then... xpeacex

[Poker Alan]

Where does Montana move to? It won't work being an independent at this level...

[Native]

How's this for stats for you Green:

Since 2000

1) Socon has had 3 different schools reach the NC, 2 of those schools won. No need to state their winning percentage.

2) MVC has had one school reach the NC, 3 different schools reach the quarter finals. They have 50% winning percentage.

3) BSC, without Montana hasn't had a school advance past the second round with a 33% winning percentage in the playoffs. How's that for facts.

You can use formulas, GPI, grocery lists, blind statements about people not using facts as much as you want. Those facts don't lie. Saying ESU, Weber, and MSU could play in any conference and do well, is a blind statement. One game doesn't prove anything, but a decade does.

I know Nevada, and Boise St moved up to 1A, but if I'm Montana I just move out. What's to prove?

The quarterfinals are the second round, you nitwit. xrolleyesx

SOCON is first, CAA is second, and BSC is third this decade.

Besides Montana, four BSC teams have progressed to the quarterfinals in this decade: Northern Arizona (2003), Eastern Washington (2004 & 2007), Montana State (2006) and Weber State (2008).

Besides UNI, four teams from the Missouri Valley have progressed past round one in the playoffs in this decade: Western Illinois, Illinois State, Youngstown State, and Southern Illinois.

What you might have said is that besides UNI, two MVFC teams have also reached the semifinals, which is indeed more than the BSC can say: Youngstown State (2006) and Western Illinois (2007). Without UNI, the MVFC slips to 40% and slides ahead of the Big Sky without Montana.

So the original point remains that the top half of the Big Sky conference is competitive even without Montana, as is the top half of the MVFC even without UNI. With or without their conference leaders, neither conference shakes either the SOCON or the CAA out of the top two spots, and neither conference falls below fourth place.

xpeacex

[Native]

...

2) MVC has had one school reach the NC, 3 different schools reach the quarter finals. They have 50% winning percentage.

3) BSC, without Montana hasn't had a school advance past the second round with a 33% winning percentage in the playoffs. How's that for facts.

...

The quarterfinals are the second round, you nitwit. xrolleyesx

Besides Montana, four BSC teams have progressed to the quarterfinals in this decade: Northern Arizona (2003), Eastern Washington (2004 & 2007), Montana State (2006) and Weber State (2008).

Besides Northern Iowa, the MVFC has also placed four teams in the quarterfinals. What you might have said is that besides UNI, two MVFC teams reached the semifinals: Youngstown State (2006) and Western Illinois (2007).

Without UNI, the MVFC slips to 40% and slides ahead of the Big Sky without Montana.

So the original point remains that the top half of the Big Sky conference is competitive even without Montana, as is th top half of the MVFC even without UNI. With or without their conference leaders, neither conference shakes either the SOCON or the CAA out of the top two spots.xpeacex

[Green26]

The quarterfinals are the second round, you nitwit. xrolleyesx

Besides Montana, four BSC teams have progressed to the quarterfinals in this decade: Northern Arizona (2003), Eastern Washington (2004 & 2007), Montana State (2006) and Weber State (2008).

Besides Northern Iowa, the MVFC has also placed four teams in the quarterfinals. What you might have said is that besides UNI, two MVFC teams reached the semifinals: Youngstown State (2006) and Western Illinois (2007).

Without UNI, the MVFC slips to 40% and slides ahead of the Big Sky without Montana.

So the original point remains that the top half of the Big Sky conference is competitive even without Montana, as is th top half of the MVFC even without UNI. With or without their conference leaders, neither conference shakes either the SOCON or the CAA out of the top two spots.xpeacex

Good information, Native. I believe two of the non-Montana Big Sky teams have knocked off no. 1 seeds in the first round too during this time period.

While I haven't updated my Sagarin list in the past couple years, for this general time period, it results in the CAA, MV/Gateway and the Big Sky being the top 3 conferences. My methodolgy was to add all of the team's rankings for the period, and then divide by the number of years.

Like I said, some of these guys have their personal talking points, and will probably continue to not accept facts or reality. Or, maybe some of them will fade away, which would even be better.

[HenZoneNation]

My mistake semi finals...and I might add that me calling the semis the quarter finals is the strongest part of your arguement.

Take UM out of the equation and no BSC team has made the semi finals finals...You're also forgetting....as did I that Western Kentucky won the NC in 2002 as part of the Gateway....now MVC, so that defeats that point. However take UNI out and you still have had Youngstown St, Western Kentucky, and SIU make the Semi finals...

Sorry Native...you're 4th. I forgive you for the nitwit comment...you had a tough day Saturday and an even tougher day today. xpeacex

[Native]

My mistake semi finals...and I might add that me calling the semis the quarter finals is the strongest part of your arguement.

Take UM out of the equation and no BSC team has made the semi finals finals...You're also forgetting....as did I that Western Kentucky won the NC in 2002 as part of the Gateway....now MVC, so that defeats that point. However take UNI out and you still have had Youngstown St, Western Kentucky, and SIU make the Semi finals...

Sorry Native...you're 4th. I forgive you for the nitwit comment...you had a tough day Saturday and an even tougher day today. xpeacex

What years was Western Kentucky part of the gateway/MV?

When you pull the thread on each of your arguments, the original point stills stands: The top half of both the BSC and MVFC conferences are competitive, even without the conference leaders.

Thanks for the consideration regarding Saturday. Tough day indeed.

Today, however, was not a tough day at all, so you don't have to forgive me.:p;)

[HenZoneNation]

They left in 2006....2002 they were part of what we call today the...MVC...I disagree...I haven't seen one thing that suggests that the top half of the BSC is better than the MVC. I see that Montana has performed better than UNI this decade, but if you include Western Kentucky, what SIU and Youngstown ST did, the addiction of NDSU, and the 33% winning percentage of BSC (aside from UM) I can't see how you make that point.


I'll go one step further...in your opinion if you asked most UM fans who their big rival, the team they are most jacked up to play, historically...who would it be?
MSU? And they have beaten them 21 out 24 years. That's not much of a rivalry.

[Proud Griz Man]

Can we just end this thread by agreeing the CAA is better than the Big Sky? Would that appease people?

No, these people will never drop the subject. xmadx
We discussed this topic in 2002. xnonono2x
We discussed this topic in 2003. xsmhx
We discussed this topic in 2004. xcoffeex
We discussed this topic in 2005. xoopsx
We discussed this topic in 2006. xwhistlex
We discussed this topic in 2007. xeekx
We discussed this topic in 2008. xreadx
We discussed this topic in 2009. xcoolx
We will be baited into more similar discussions in 2010. xbawlingx

In 2003 and 2005 and 2007, they latched on to "The Griz are overrated."
In 2004 and 2006 and 2008, they said "The Big Sky is a one-trick pony".
They will grab any single point to justify their opinion. xrulesx

[Proud Griz Man]

asked most UM fans who their big rival, the team they are most jacked up to play, historically...who would it be?
MSU? And they have beaten them 21 out 24 years. That's not much of a rivalry.

How is a Delaware fan such an "expert" on rivalry games? xlolx

Enlighten me HZN, how is your rivalry with Delaware State, Navy, West Chester, or Nova?

[kalm]

Hzn has fallen in love with his own idea and won't be parted. Hence a one trick pony.:)

[GannonFan]

No, these people will never drop the subject. xmadx
We discussed this topic in 2002. xnonono2x
We discussed this topic in 2003. xsmhx
We discussed this topic in 2004. xcoffeex
We discussed this topic in 2005. xoopsx
We discussed this topic in 2006. xwhistlex
We discussed this topic in 2007. xeekx
We discussed this topic in 2008. xreadx
We discussed this topic in 2009. xcoolx
We will be baited into more similar discussions in 2010. xbawlingx

In 2003 and 2005 and 2007, they latched on to "The Griz are overrated."
In 2004 and 2006 and 2008, they said "The Big Sky is a one-trick pony".
They will grab any single point to justify their opinion. xrulesx

That's factually wrong there - we've been saying the Big Sky is a one-trick pony since 1997, you know, the last time a non-Montana team managed to actually win a quarterfinal. Not sure why you just cherry picked 3 of those 12 years. xlolx

[GannonFan]

How is a Delaware fan such an "expert" on rivalry games? xlolx

Enlighten me HZN, how is your rivalry with Delaware State, Navy, West Chester, or Nova?

Well, there is no rivalry with DSU or West Chester, but the Navy rivalry (not a rivalry, per se) is 8-7 in Navy's favor, and the nova rivalry is 22-20-1 in nova's favor (including games when nova was DI and UD DII). Is that what you meant?? xrotatehx

[caribbeanhen]

BTW, you could take three out of the CAA and still compare it to the Big Sky WITH Montana still in it. xnodx

and he's being conservative

[Grrrrriz]

and he's being conservative

No he isn't, and you are just making an argument without basis because you think that the Delaware posters who are well versed on the FCS will come to your aid.. You guys have 4 more teams than the BSC, and a way bigger recruiting population. There are as more people in Philly than there are in Montana. By that logic the CAA should win the NC every year....and ALWAYS be better than Montana...But they aren't. There are way more teams out east than out west, you are grasping at straws. The CAA is the best this year, they are really good, but they aren't the best as often as they should be.

[caribbeanhen]

lets see, toss out the top 4 CAA teams and for the BigSky toss out Montana and you have (GPI)
JMU # 17 vs # 10 EW (Vegas money is on JMU)
Delaware # 18 vs # 12 WEBER ST vs # (hens played em closer than Weber did)
UMASS # 24 vs # 19 Montana St
Maine #26 vs # 22 North Arizona - even money
Hofstra # 34 vs # 41 Sac St - Hofstra better
Noreaster (rip) # 62 vs #59 N Colorado - even in the grave NE right there
Towson # 80 vs #74 PSU (I'll give you this one)
RI # 87 vs #81 Idaho St -

I say 3 easy and 4 you have start making your case, but any way you slice it does not bode well for the FallingSky

[FCS Go!]

You guys obviously need a refresher on how it is:



The best conference in FCS is always the CAA/SoCon (whoever won last NC or had most teams in playoffs).

When a Big Sky team loses in the playoffs it is because the conf. is weak- weak OOC schedule & weak conf. teams allow teams to pad their schedule with easy wins and gain undeserved entry to the playoffs.

When a CAA/SoCon team loses in the playoffs it is because the conf. is so strong- they beat each other up all year and have nothing left for the playoffs.



When a Big Sky team wins in the playoffs it is because the conf. is weak- Big Sky teams are not challenged during the regular season and arrive in the playoffs fresh and well-rested.

When a CAA/SoCon team wins in the playoffs it is because the conf. is so strong- they are "battle-tested" and accustomed to play-off caliber opponents because they face them every week during the regular season.

[caribbeanhen]

you are just making an argument without basis because you think that the Delaware posters who are well versed on the FCS will come to your aid..

if your referring to GF, I don't think he will be helping me anytime soon.xlolx..89 OTH, now he just might, as for Cluck, I am thinking he would help if it gets to that point

[FCS Go!]

Additional rules to remember-

Towson, URI, Western Carolina, Hofstra, Northeastern, Chattanooga, Citadel don't count as bottom-feeder teams. They should be ignored when losing to a non-CAA/SoCon team. If they play a ranked CAA/SoCon team close this should be ignored as well or at least only mentioned as evidence of conference depth.

DII & non-scholly opponents are only poor OOC games when playing Big Sky teams- when playing CAA/SoCon teams they are a deserved break from such a tough conf. schedule, a "traditional" game (i.e. West Chester) or are offset by playing any of the bottom 40 FBS teams. No offset will be granted to Big Sky teams.

[SpiderSafety75]

All one has to do is look at the Sagarin ratings...Nova, W&M, and UR are the class of the field this year. All of them are rated a touchdown better than Montana. According to Sag, W&M was 11 points better than Weber...it wasn't going to be a game from the outset (in contrast, Elon was only a 4-point 'dog to the Spiders, and Sag turned out to be pretty darn right.)

All things are cyclical, but Montana getting the top seed this year was based on their rep and their unblemished record in a mediocre league - not because they deserved it. Perhaps that's where some of the anti-Sky feeling comes from.

[IABison]

All things are cyclical, but Montana getting the top seed this year was based on their rep and their unblemished record in a mediocre league - not because they deserved it. Perhaps that's where some of the anti-Sky feeling comes from.

The NCAA just needs to give up this whole playoff system and let the AGS poll decide the national champion...


xrolleyesx

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

All one has to do is look at the Sagarin ratings...Nova, W&M, and UR are the class of the field this year. All of them are rated a touchdown better than Montana. According to Sag, W&M was 11 points better than Weber...it wasn't going to be a game from the outset (in contrast, Elon was only a 4-point 'dog to the Spiders, and Sag turned out to be pretty darn right.)

All things are cyclical, but Montana getting the top seed this year was based on their rep and their unblemished record in a mediocre league - not because they deserved it. Perhaps that's where some of the anti-Sky feeling comes from.

It has always been here since I got here and I wouldn't have it any other way! Honestly, if they start liking us, that means we've started losing :Dxsmiley_wix

[Proud Griz Man]

Well, there is no rivalry with DSU or West Chester, but the Navy rivalry (not a rivalry, per se) is 8-7 in Navy's favor, and the nova rivalry is 22-20-1 in nova's favor (including games when nova was DI and UD DII). Is that what you meant?? xrotatehx

I see West Chester is on your schedule every year. How's that rivalry treating ya ?

22-20-1. That makes Rich Gannon older than your "rivalry". xlolxxrotatehxxlolxxrotatehx
That D-Bag vice president from Delaware has hair plugs older than that. xrolleyesx

[CFallsGriz]

I would love that. Those fluttering passes Montana threw on their last scoring drive that were completed would be Pick 6's in CAA-town.

Fluttering passes?

I was there and to my recollection their secondary was badly beaten on several.

Weak, weak argument.

[CFallsGriz]

Easy...Rodney Landers injury...DUH!

Where is Flanders now?

Just curious...

[Green26]

Fluttering passes?

I was there and to my recollection their secondary was badly beaten on several.

Weak, weak argument.

CFalls, Bettina has once again shown that he doesn't understand the game, and he just makes up stuff. Terrific passes the whole second half by the Griz.

[CFallsGriz]

Green26,

This is the exact arguement I have made for weeks...nobody says UM is an over-rated program...they say the BSC is an over-rated conference. You guys were #3 in the nation at the start of the year, you went undefeated, and ended up #3 in the nation. The two teams that finished ahead of you each lost a game. You guys just don't seem to get the point no matter how much we spell it out for you....


SWITCH CONFERENCES xeyebrowx

That's assinine.

When UM switches conferences, it will be to the WAC or MWC.xthumbsupx

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

That's assinine.

When UM switches conferences, it will be to the WAC or MWC.xthumbsupx

Either way, I'd have a short drive at least once to go watch the Griz. Utah and BYU would be a nice drive, Utah St and Boise St, a bit farther, but I'd take it :) I personally don't want us to move up though.

[Green26]

That's assinine.

When UM switches conferences, it will be to the WAC or MWC.xthumbsupx


Also, Henzone doesn't seem to get it. UM was seeded no. 1 and ranked no. 1 in the coaches poll. We can't get any higher. The SportsNetwork poll has lost its luster in recent years. The AGS poll is basically a joke, because of the a good number of the voters.

At this rate, Henzone will soon be citing his own personal opinion instead of polls.

[Tod]

That's assinine.

When UM switches conferences, it will be to the WAC or MWC.xthumbsupx

HZN did lay an egg with the suggestion that we switch conferences. He probably just didn't think it through before blurting it out.

[CFallsGriz]

Also, Henzone doesn't seem to get it. UM was seeded no. 1 and ranked no. 1 in the coaches poll. We can't get any higher. The SportsNetwork poll has lost its luster in recent years. The AGS poll is basically a joke, because of the a good number of the voters.

At this rate, Henzone will soon be citing his own personal opinion instead of polls.


Well, that's his prerogative then.....

I'm just waiting for someone to post one of Keeler's famous "UD is the true class of I-AA" quotes.xcoffeex

[MacThor]

Where is Flanders now?

Just curious...

Landers is with the Richmond Revolution, of course!

[HenZoneNation]

You have to be kidding about using facts Green? Aside from a list of complaints about other posters, your opinion on the strength of the BSC, and the fact that you didn't like people repeating themselves, I haven't seen much from you. The reason why people keep repeating statistics over and over and over again is not becaus ethey are stuck on your arguement, it's that you dismiss facts and then make statements that directly contridict those facts.

About going Independent:
1) This is a fan site...nobody really takes the ideas, theories, or opinions we put on this board seriously. ADs, coaches, players...they don't care...It's suppose to be fun and entertaining. Making arguements like we do, is just that so why not stretch the limits.
2) Do I think that Montana would go independent, of course not. It's a difficult because of the shere size of the states and area of the country. You do travel over a thousand miles with Sacremento and Northern Arizona. I'd like to see you guys playing SDSU and NDSU, maybe a Wyoming or Idaho at the 1A level. Something.
3) To say the BSC over the past decade is better than the MVC or SoCon is not accurate. There are enough facts to prove that. BSC has a very strong history, however you lost some very good school sand did not replace them well. This past decade has shown a drop in production in the playoffs. If that trend continues as it did this year...you will see Montana starting to suffer in the coachs' polls just like it has started in the Sports Network and AGS poll.
The internet is a tough critic for the BSC and I think the critics of this conference will grow in numbers and strength of arguemnet because of the ability of your average fan to see just what a drop off in comp the BSC has become.

[89Hen]

So what? You have to dig deeper into the Big Sky conference. Using an antecdote, i.e. just USC, doesn't prove your point.

Go back and look at the conference rating services over the past 12 years. They will show you that the Big Sky was one of the top 3 rated conferences during that period of time.

I'm just not going to let you get away with expressing your opinion as if it's a fact, ignoring facts, or using only antecdotes.
Just USC? Ignoring facts? NOBODY, NOT ONE TEAM, NOT ONE CONFERENCE in Division I College Football has had one team share a title for 12 consecutive years. And I don't think anyone in I-AA is even close. AppSt with 5 (?) currently must be the second longest.

Rated by whom? Computers? xlolx

[89Hen]

In years past the Big Sky has done fairly well in the playoffs considering the lack of teams from our conference in the playoffs. EWU trounced McNeese State when they were #1, MSU trounced Furman and held its own against App State until the ill advised WR pass.

I will agree that the CAA is a toughest conference but I still don't think that they deserve to have all their teams in the playoffs. It gets a little bit ridiculous. You put 6 teams from one conference in the playoff you expect them to win more games than teams that only send one or two teams in just from a probability standpoint.
They had 5 one year (four of the five won in the first round), so saying "all" or 6 is a "little bit ridiculous". xpeacex

4 of 12 = 33% (all 4 win)
3 of 9 = 33% (only 1 wins)

Seems to me the Big Sky was overrepresented this year. xnodx

[89Hen]

Conference, W-L, %, National Championships
SOCON, 33-16, 58.6%, 4

Factual corrections will be appreciated.
SoCon is 67.3% xpeacex

[89Hen]

Can we just end this thread by agreeing the CAA is better than the Big Sky? Would that appease people?


No, these people will never drop the subject. xmadx
There's a very simple solution. Just have somebody other than Montana get to the semis or heaven forbid, the finals. xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

When a Big Sky team wins in the playoffs
Let us know when that happens.

[JMUNJ08]

There's a very simple solution. Just have somebody other than Montana get to the semis or heaven forbid, the finals. xsmiley_wix

Agreed. NE won the A10 just in 2002 and dropped football. We are fluid at the top and bottom almost every year now. When Idaho St, Northern Colorado, Portland St. and Sacramento get off their xazzx, we may let you share the spot light for a little...xbowx

[GannonFan]

if your referring to GF, I don't think he will be helping me anytime soon.xlolx..89 OTH, now he just might, as for Cluck, I am thinking he would help if it gets to that point


Nonsense, if you make a good point, I'll be there. xnodx

[Green26]

3) To say the BSC over the past decade is better than the MVC or SoCon is not accurate. There are enough facts to prove that. BSC has a very strong history, however you lost some very good school sand did not replace them well. This past decade has shown a drop in production in the playoffs. If that trend continues as it did this year...you will see Montana starting to suffer in the coachs' polls just like it has started in the Sports Network and AGS poll.
The internet is a tough critic for the BSC and I think the critics of this conference will grow in numbers and strength of arguemnet because of the ability of your average fan to see just what a drop off in comp the BSC has become.


There you go again. Ignoring the facts and making up stuff. If you look at the objective criteria, the Big Sky has been one of the three top rated conferences. I've suggested that you look at the Sagarin, but I can see you're too lazy to do that. By recollection, Sagarin has rated the Big Sky better than the SoCon in all but 3 or so years in the past dozen years. Look at last week's GPI. It had the Big Sky ranked no. 2. Maybe that will change this week due to the Weber and EWU losses. I don't know.

While EWU and Weber--apparently the last 2 teams selected for the playoffs--lost this year, Big Sky teams other than Montana have won the following in recent years:

2008: Weber won its first round game last year, and played UM in Missoula in the second round.

2007: EWU destroyed McNeese in the first round, and lost to Appy (eventual champs) by 3 points the next week.

2006: Montana St crushed Furman in the first round, and lost to Appy (eventual champs) in the second round.

Thus, in those three years, the Big Sky was 5-1 in the first round of the playoffs.

[89Hen]

I've suggested that you look at the Sagarin, but I can see you're too lazy to do that.
Or too smart. Sagarin is weak to say the least.

[Green26]

Or too smart. Sagarin is weak to say the least.

I would certainly take the Sagarin over "weak" opinions of uninformed and biased posters.

How about the GPI? Is your opinion better than the GPI too?

I believe Sagarin is one of the components of the BCS rankings. Is your opinion one of the components of the BCS?

[HenZoneNation]

Not only Sagarin a flawed system it is also rating the BSC with Montana as a member. The thread spoke about the rest of the conference.

You asked me to remove UNI in the place of Montana and the MVC still has multiple teams in the semi finals and 1 NC this decade.

You take away Appy, the Socon still has had two teams reach the NC, 1 NC title and three schools reach the semi's.

you're 5 wins to 10 losses is the worst of the four with zero semi final appearences and zero NC's. Those ratings you speak of, are going to start changing. It takes awhile to destroy tradition and the BSC had tradition...had being the important word here. If the other schools in your conference continue to win 33% of the time it will impact UM eventually.

Here are your facts green now return to your history books and computer programs and recall a better era in BSC history...cause this ain't it.

[Green26]

[QUOTE=HenZoneNation;1483277]Not only Sagarin a flawed system it is also rating the BSC with Montana as a member. The thread spoke about the rest of the conference.

You asked me to remove UNI in the place of Montana and the MVC still has multiple teams in the semi finals and 1 NC this decade.

Just for the record, I did not ask you to remove UNI or anyone from anything, so I don't know what you're talking about.

All I've asked is that you consider some facts and objective sources, instead of just your opinion (and bias) before you make outlandlish and unsupported statements.

[HenZoneNation]

Then it was one of your fellow BSC Posters...for that I apologize...

That being said, what more needs to said. What other facts are required to justify this point. The crazy thing that I find is that the majority of the people in opposition to this position are UM fans...I stated quite clearly that I believe Montana could compete and win in any division. I don't think they would win year in and year out but they are certainly a school to be admired. The rest of your conference needs to step it up. I took an interest in your conference because of the passion of the threads in regards to it. However, with information being so easily attainable it doesn't take a lot of research to see that MSU is UM's big rival (sorry, one poster asked me how I was aware of that and the 21 out 24 is on several of their avitars) an dthat BSC has fallen by three other conferences.

You also won't find to many UD fans buying into what KC Keeler has stated about our program. I believe we will be better next year but we are certainly not the model.

[CrazyCat]

Big Sky trivia

MSU is one of six FCS schools to have a winning record since 2002.

[Poker Alan]

Big Sky trivia

MSU is one of six FCS schools to have a winning record since 2002.

I do not believe this stat for one minute, only 6 in the whole country? Or is this one of 6 out of the Big Sky to have a winning record since 2002? If that is what you are posting... xcoffeex

[89Hen]

I would certainly take the Sagarin over "weak" opinions of uninformed and biased posters.

How about the GPI? Is your opinion better than the GPI too?

I believe Sagarin is one of the components of the BCS rankings. Is your opinion one of the components of the BCS?
xlolx You obviously haven't been around here too much.

[89Hen]

I stated quite clearly that I believe Montana could compete and win in any division. I don't think they would win year in and year out but they are certainly a school to be admired. The rest of your conference needs to step it up.
xnodx If Montana were in the CAA the last 12 years they would have won their share of titles, but they would never have been anywhere close to 12 in a row. Is that something everyone could agree on?

[CrazyCat]

I do not believe this stat for one minute, only 6 in the whole country? Or is this one of 6 out of the Big Sky to have a winning record since 2002? If that is what you are posting... xcoffeex

Sorry it's 7 if you include SDSU.



Team Last Non-Winning Season
----------------------------------------------
Appalachian State 1993
Furman 1998
Harvard 2000
Montana 1985
Montana State 2001
South Carolina State 2000
South Dakota State 2001(DII 2002-2007)

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

xnodx If Montana were in the CAA the last 12 years they would have won their share of titles, but they would never have been anywhere close to 12 in a row. Is that something everyone could agree on?

No..........

I think we could have got 11 and that is pretty close to 12 :D







/me digs out his ecb fishin pole

[89Hen]

No..........

I think we could have got 11 and that is pretty close to 12 :D
The one you would have missed would have been 2003 so it broke up your streak. :p

[Silenoz]

And 2005

That team was not...great

[CrazyCat]

xnodx If Montana were in the CAA the last 12 years they would have won their share of titles, but they would never have been anywhere close to 12 in a row. Is that something everyone could agree on?


What about the Big Sky teams that shared the title with Montana? Nothing against the Griz and their excellence but a person can't forget the shared titles of 2002,3,4,5, and 2008 from those crappy other Big Sky teams.

[wideright82]

What about the Big Sky teams that shared the title with Montana? Nothing against the Griz and their excellence but a person can't forget the shared titles of 2002,3,4,5, and 2008 from those crappy other Big Sky teams.

statistical anomalies. xcoffeex

[GrizNzonecrazy]

statistical anomalies. xcoffeex

Ha ha i agree.....Griz just had a few off days....no one else is worthy of the title conference champion if they are in the same conf. as the Griz......

[YoUDeeMan]

xlolx You obviously haven't been around here too much.

Well, he is a little Green. :D

[GannonFan]

What about the Big Sky teams that shared the title with Montana? Nothing against the Griz and their excellence but a person can't forget the shared titles of 2002,3,4,5, and 2008 from those crappy other Big Sky teams.

That's the thing - what about those teams? Once they got to the crucible of the national playoffs, none of them could even make it past the quarterfinal round, if they even got that far. Statistically speaking, you'd expect someone other than just Montana to have done that in the past 12 years. Sadly, it's not the case.

[CrazyCat]

Sorry, I forgot to read the rules. A team must make it past the quarters to be successful. Got it, thanks.

[GannonFan]

Sorry, I forgot to read the rules. A team must make it past the quarters to be successful. Got it, thanks.

Not at all, but it would help if one team other than Montana did it over the past 12 years. Like I said, even the Patriot League has had teams get past that hump in the same period of time (heck, even the MEAC has as well), doesn't seem like it would be asking too much for just one non-Montana team to do it once since 1997. The A10/CAA has had 6 different programs get past that point a total of 11 times since a single non-Montana Big Sky team has.

[GrizNzonecrazy]

Not at all, but it would help if one team other than Montana did it over the past 12 years. Like I said, even the Patriot League has had teams get past that hump in the same period of time (heck, even the MEAC has as well), doesn't seem like it would be asking too much for just one non-Montana team to do it once since 1997. The A10/CAA has had 6 different programs get past that point a total of 11 times since a single non-Montana Big Sky team has.

Its a big task when they have to go through WA-Griz to get there......

[kalm]

Imagine a 13 game schedule that includes 7 top 5 teams, 9 power conference champions, 2 national champions, 2 national runners up, and 10 away games.

That's what the big sky at large bids have faced since 2004 without any games against the patriot, ovc, or meac and frequently against a mvc or slc champ and/or a seed.

I agree that the lack of semi final appearances is a nock, but the strength of who the BSC at-larges have faced and where the games have been played makes that opinion far less convincing and the BSC playoff success a little more impressive.

[GannonFan]

Its a big task when they have to go through WA-Griz to get there......

Why would that matter? Since 1997 the only non-Montana Big Sky team to play a playoff game at W-Griz was Weber St in 2008. All the other years and all the other non-Montana Big Sky teams lost either at home or at venues other than Wa-Griz.

And besides, since 1999, Montana's only 7-4 at home in the first round - obviously other teams have found it to be a bit more hospitable than you are making it out to be.

[GrizNzonecrazy]

Why would that matter? Since 1997 the only non-Montana Big Sky team to play a playoff game at W-Griz was Weber St in 2008. All the other years and all the other non-Montana Big Sky teams lost either at home or at venues other than Wa-Griz.

And besides, since 1999, Montana's only 7-4 at home in the first round - obviously other teams have found it to be a bit more hospitable than you are making it out to be.

lets ask SDSU how hospitable it was in the second half..............

[GannonFan]

Imagine a 13 game schedule that includes 7 top 5 teams, 9 power conference champions, 2 national champions, 2 national runners up, and 10 away games.

That's what the big sky at large bids have faced since 2004 without any games against the patriot, ovc, or meac and frequently against a mvc or slc champ and/or a seed.

I agree that the lack of semi final appearances is a nock, but the strength of who the BSC at-larges have faced and where the games have been played makes that opinion far less convincing and the BSC playoff success a little more impressive.

That's a cop out - this is the playoffs, eventually you are going to play tough teams, especially once you hit the quarterfinals. Most years there's only one team from each the Patriot, MEAC, and OVC - it's not like every other conference is feasting on those teams alone. Heck, this year 3 of the 4 CAA teams didn't play any of those teams from those conferences, yet all 3 won (playing an SLC team on the road, an SoCon, and a Big Sky team).

[GannonFan]

lets ask SDSU how hospitable it was in the second half..............

And that's why the record is now 7-4, counting this year. But that's getting away from the point - you argued that the non-Montana Big Sky teams can't be faulted for their lack of playoff success since 1997 becuase it's tough to win at Wa-Griz and I pointed out that the only non-Montana Big Sky team to play a playoff game at Wa-Griz since 1997 is Weber St in 2008. What happened to all the other teams???

[kalm]

That's a cop out - this is the playoffs, eventually you are going to play tough teams, especially once you hit the quarterfinals. Most years there's only one team from each the Patriot, MEAC, and OVC - it's not like every other conference is feasting on those teams alone. Heck, this year 3 of the 4 CAA teams didn't play any of those teams from those conferences, yet all 3 won (playing an SLC team on the road, an SoCon, and a Big Sky team).

Oh, I forgot to mention that that the BSC is 6-7 in those games which is pretty damn good. And you're right, the quarterfinals get even more difficult so winning two in a row against that competition, almost always on the road, is an even better explanation.

And we're not discussing the BSC versus is the CAA, were discussing whether Montana should move to independent because someone's opinion is that the MVC, SOCON, and SLC are better conferences. Since the CAA only played one team from a weaker conference, someone else had to. Quit being so sensitive and thanks for the help. xthumbsupx