Bigger crowd: Lafayette@HC or Penn@Harvard?

[Sader87]

Ok, both the Patriot and Ivy titles will be settled roughly an hour's distance from one another in the Commonwealth this Saturday. Which crowd do you see as being bigger and why?

I'll go with (shocker) HC...biggest game at Fitton since the last BC game in '86, first trip back to the playoffs since '83 on the line and I think the Pard faithful will travel better than will the Quackers.

Weather looks to be good...mid 40's, clear.

Fitton Field: 14, 256

Harvard Stadium: 12,879

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'll go out on a limb and say it will be the Williams/Amherst game. xcoffeex

[DFW HOYA]

What a statement it would be to HC's adminstration and the PL to see this attendance line at Fitton:

A-23,500

Instead, it'll be...

Fitton 10,875
Harvard: 12,130

[Pard4Life]

Is there a large awareness of HC football? Pards had 9,000 last week for two ranked teams. Randolph is the most high profile player in Eastern football aside from the PSU QB and the upcoming Temple RB.

I'd wager 12,000.

[Ivytalk]

Harvard 16K

Holy Cross 12K

[carney2]

After seeing the disappointing number that showed up for a top 25 thrillfest at Fisher Stadium last week, I would not be surprised if I have more in my family room this Saturday than show up at Fitton. And I'm not counting Laubach and Leone among the people at my place.

[Sader87]

Harvard 16K

Holy Cross 12K

The respective tuition figures probably in the late 70's?

You may be right...I'm very interested to see how many do in fact show up at Fitton. 15,000 seems to be about the ceiling (which we've very rarely approached in the PL era) these days.

I don't think we'll ever see 20,000+ anymore at Fitton unless we go scholarship again. The difference (I think) between say 12,000 and 20,000 is that we've lost the Worcester and surrounding area fans since we joined the Patriot League.

[Ivytalk]

The respective tuition figures probably in the late 70's?

You may be right...I'm very interested to see how many do in fact show up at Fitton. 15,000 seems to be about the ceiling (which we've very rarely approached in the PL era) these days.

I don't think we'll ever see 20,000+ anymore at Fitton unless we go scholarship again. The difference (I think) between say 12,000 and 20,000 is that we've lost the Worcester and surrounding area fans since we joined the Patriot League.

Sader, if the students don't turn out for this one in droves, we'll be lucky to get 13K. Our biggest crowd of the year (17,263) was the opening Friday night home game against Brown. Yale is on the road this year. Harvard just doesn't break 20K for anyone but Yale anymore. Sad to say.xtwocentsx

[ngineer]

I'll be surprised if HC has more than 12-13,000 in the stands. So I"m going with the Crimson-Quacker matchup pulling in about 17,000. Assuming good weather for both. There are rumbling about a possible storm coming up the coast, but "THEY" are callling for it to further out to sea and only create clouds...for now.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

I'll go out on a limb and say it will be the Williams/Amherst game. xcoffeex

If not the biggest, Ephs vs Lord Jeffs will surely be close in attendance to both the crowds in Cambridge and in Worcester!

[Pard94]

I'll be surprised if HC has more than 12-13,000 in the stands. So I"m going with the Crimson-Quacker matchup pulling in about 17,000. Assuming good weather for both. There are rumbling about a possible storm coming up the coast, but "THEY" are callling for it to further out to sea and only create clouds...for now.

I'm predicting 400 for the Lehigh game this weekend.

[Pard4Life]

HC leads the PL in attendance this year with over 8000 per game, FYI.

[Sader87]

HC leads the PL in attendance this year with over 8000 per game, FYI.

I'm kind of surprised at that because our home slate really hasn't been that great so far (outside of Harvard and Colgate).

Here are the overall PL and Ivy numbers this year:

45. HC 8004
49. Lafayette 7623
57. Lehigh 6866
84. Colgate 4806
92. Fordham 4166
103. Bucknell 3294
109. Gtown 2580


17. Yale 13384
28. Harvard 11,520
31. Penn 10996
46. Princeton 7852
47. Cornell 7823
60. Brown 6440
95. Dartmouth 4055
96. Columbia 3937

[Go...gate]

Pards-Cross - 14,000

Quackers-Cantabs - 16,000

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Both will get less than 10,000 apiece, though the HC game will outdraw the Harvard game. That's my prediction.

There's a bit more buzz at the HC game because of the presence of Randolph, but truth be know the attendance bonanza that has taken the rest of FCS by storm has largely escaped the PL and Ivies.

[Ivytalk]

Both will get less than 10,000 apiece, though the HC game will outdraw the Harvard game. That's my prediction.

There's a bit more buzz at the HC game because of the presence of Randolph, but truth be know the attendance bonanza that has taken the rest of FCS by storm has largely escaped the PL and Ivies.

No way Harvard-Penn draws under 10,000 unless there's a monsoon.xcoolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

This is tough . . . Harvard fans try to make the Quakers feel like errant stepchildren from the Midwest; you can't get a decent hoagie in the PRC (i.e., Peoples Republic of Cambridge) but you can drink a tonic or enjoy a frappe. The only way Philadelphians can find Cambridge is by taking the Market-Frankford to the very end; they then have to get out and swim north. They'll turn around, though, because the Stadium isn't really in Cambridge, is it?

15,750 fans - Mainly from Providence, RI who want to see how it's supposed to be done.

People from Easton couldn't pronounce "Wustah" even if they had a speech coach for a semester. They'll be laughed at if they try to order a triple-decker: it somewhere you live, not something to eat. If the Cross faithful boast that they'll take 'em to the cleansers, will anyone get it? And the home fans will be in a bad mood, too - last year in Easton, while in search of tailgating beverages, some Crusader faithful stopped to ask directions to the Packie, and they ended up at a 7-11 - missing the kickoff.

11,250 fans, mostly from Amherst, but with a large contingent of converts in Trans-Bridge Line coaches from that pitiful institution at the "other end" of the Lafayette Valley.

[Ivytalk]

This is tough . . . Harvard fans try to make the Quakers feel like errant stepchildren from the Midwest; you can't get a decent hoagie in the PRC (i.e., Peoples Republic of Cambridge) but you can drink a tonic or enjoy a frappe. The only way Philadelphians can find Cambridge is by taking the Market-Frankford to the very end; they then have to get out and swim north. They'll turn around, though, because the Stadium isn't really in Cambridge, is it?

15,750 fans - Mainly from Providence, RI who want to see how it's supposed to be done.

People from Easton couldn't pronounce "Wustah" even if they had a speech coach for a semester. They'll be laughed at if they try to order a triple-decker: it somewhere you live, not something to eat. If the Cross faithful boast that they'll take 'em to the cleansers, will anyone get it? And the home fans will be in a bad mood, too - last year in Easton, while in search of tailgating beverages, some Crusader faithful stopped to ask directions to the Packie, and they ended up at a 7-11 - missing the kickoff.

11,250 fans, mostly from Amherst, but with a large contingent of converts in Trans-Bridge Line coaches from that pitiful institution at the "other end" of the Lafayette Valley.

Reppies to AGS's most Bogus poster!xlolxxthumbsupxxbowx As soon as I have another green chiclet to give, that is!

[ngineer]

I'm predicting 400 for the Lehigh game this weekend.

Oh I bet we have a lot more than that AT FORDHAM. Can't speak for how many the Rams will have at Coffey Field. I would guess total attendance around 4-5,000.Two bus loads of South Side Boosters making the trip. How many bus loads of maroon are schlepping the Worcester?xrolleyesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh I bet we have a lot more than that AT FORDHAM. Can't speak for how many the Rams will have at Coffey Field. I would guess total attendance around 4-5,000.Two bus loads of South Side Boosters making the trip. How many bus loads of maroon are schlepping the Worcester?xrolleyesx

Lehigh Bus making the trip to Fordham:


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7544/shortbusthumb.jpg


So sad, so sad . . . .


* * * * * * * *

[Doc QB]

[QUOTE][11,250 fans, mostly from Amherst, but with a large contingent of converts in Trans-Bridge Line coaches from that pitiful institution at the "other end" of the Lafayette Valley./QUOTE]

Bogus, take it easy...my cousin owns transbridge bus lines.

And, that short bus is freakin hilarious, I need to copy that for future use

[Bogus Megapardus]

And, that short bus is freakin hilarious, I need to copy that for future use

That's my avatar on the Philadelphia Eagles Message Board. I think I have a larger version if you like.

[Pard4Life]

A poster on the Laf board said only few students signed up for the bus. Sad. I guess that's what TV does. The bus also leaves at 6am.

[Go...gate]

That's my avatar on the Philadelphia Eagles Message Board. I think I have a larger version if you like.

Could you make that two? Best avatar since "I'd Hit It"...xlolx

[Go...gate]

A poster on the Laf board said only few students signed up for the bus. Sad. I guess that's what TV does. The bus also leaves at 6am.

Right. Back in the day we could not wait for such a trip, whether by over-filled car or bus.

[Franks Tanks]

Right. Back in the day we could not wait for such a trip, whether by over-filled car or bus.

Not to mention the student-body's of schools like Colgate and Lafayette are now filled with pretentious preppy's, huge dorks, and international students that would rather attend a squash match or a crew regatta.

With the schools being so small to begin with, its hard to have the demographis we do and have student interest. It sucks, but I understand the issues behind it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And, that short bus is freakin hilarious, I need to copy that for future use


Could you make that two? Best avatar since "I'd Hit It"...xlolx

Sorry guys - I can't find the original. You can pull the avatar off the post, though.

[Sader87]

Both will get less than 10,000 apiece, though the HC game will outdraw the Harvard game. That's my prediction.

There's a bit more buzz at the HC game because of the presence of Randolph, but truth be know the attendance bonanza that has taken the rest of FCS by storm has largely escaped the PL and Ivies.

I really don't think that's true....there are only 10 FCS schools that average over 15,000 and only 35 that average over 10,000. The vast majority of the 36-106 (out of 118) FCS schools average somewhere between 3,000 to 10,000 a game.

The Ivy League on average draws better than most FCS leagues/conferences.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I really don't think that's true....there are only 10 FCS schools that average over 15,000 and only 35 that average over 10,000. The vast majority of the 36-106 (out of 118) FCS schools average somewhere between 3,000 to 10,000 a game.

The Ivy League on average draws better than most FCS leagues/conferences.

That's due to Harvard/Yale, which pumps up the numbers. The PL does too with "The Rivalry", but to a lesser extent.

Believe me, there's nothing I'd like better than to say this game will get more than 10,000 fans. It's definitely the Patriot League Game of the Year, and you can bet I'll be following it.

[Sader87]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

These are the numbers through last weekend (before Harvard-Yale and other rival games).

Three of the top 31 are Ivy and 5 of the top 50 are Ivy.

Outside of a few "hot-spots" (Montana, Delaware, App St etc) there really is no attendence explosion for FCS football. As I stated earlier very few draw 15,000+ and most are in the 3-10K range.

[Ivytalk]

Lehigh Bus making the trip to Fordham:


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7544/shortbusthumb.jpg


So sad, so sad . . . .


* * * * * * * *

xoutofrepx


xlolxxlolx Priceless!

[Go...gate]

Not to mention the student-body's of schools like Colgate and Lafayette are now filled with pretentious preppy's, huge dorks, and international students that would rather attend a squash match or a crew regatta.

With the schools being so small to begin with, its hard to have the demographis we do and have student interest. It sucks, but I understand the issues behind it.

Funny how things change, though. Back in the Dark Ages when I went to prep school, by the time we got to college we lived for those road trips. A great game, a little "snakebite remedy", and a chance to see some women.

[Pard4Life]

Oh boy, I can't wait to get those schloarship dance/artist students on campus soon! Then we'll really reel in the crowds and pound Colgate! Heads up for that killer violin solo!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh boy, I can't wait to get those schloarship dance/artist students on campus soon! Then we'll really reel in the crowds and pound Colgate! Heads up for that killer violin solo!

Look, I'm all for diversity . . . the college should attract students who can play both offense and defense . . .

[Jackman]

Forecast for both games is rain.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/2009/Internet/attendance/FCS_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf

These are the numbers through last weekend (before Harvard-Yale and other rival games).

Three of the top 31 are Ivy and 5 of the top 50 are Ivy.

Outside of a few "hot-spots" (Montana, Delaware, App St etc) there really is no attendence explosion for FCS football. As I stated earlier very few draw 15,000+ and most are in the 3-10K range.

You made me break out the spreadsheet.

The top 10 in FCS right now (which don't include any PL or Ivy teams) are up on average by 13,000 total fans.

Not counting ODU, which didn't play last year and are averaging 19,872 per game, seven schools are already posting an improvement over last year (Montana, App, South Carolina State, NCA&T, Jackson State, JMU, Liberty) and three did not perform as well (Delaware, North Dakota State, Georgia Southern).

Topping the gainers are South Carolina State (up 55.6% from last year) and NCA&T (up 20.8% from last year). Georgia Southern's was the worst at -6.5%.

****

With a caveat that the Ivies still have "The Game" to play (and a big game this weekend between Harvard and Penn), only Brown has seen an increase from this year to last year (5,139 to 6,440 on average, or up 25%). Every other school has seen a loss, and the average number of fans has plummeted by 14,202 fans from last year. Harvard's two final games might reverse this trend, but I seriously doubt it.

Dartmouth (-26%) is the biggest loser, followed closely by Princeton (-23%). Yale (-41%)'s loss is really due to "The Game" skewing their numbers - at 13,384, their attendance is tops in the Ivy.

****

The PL is not as bad off as the Ivy League, but it hasn't made up for the shortfall from Lehigh (down to 6,866 from 9,854, or 30%) from last year. While Holy Cross, Colgate and Lafayette are up a little (all up just about 10%) and Georgetown is basically the same as last year, Lehigh's loss plus the losses at Fordham (7%) and Bucknell (17.6%) mean that there is still a shortfall of 2,033 from last year.

And that seems unlikely to reverse an overall slide negative, even with "The Rivalry". Assuming a sellout crowd of 16,000 and not too much of a change, Lehigh's average would go up to 8,171, which would still be a deficit.

Incredible to think that Lehigh's average attendance would not eclipse 10,000 in a "Rivalry" year, but that's what's in the offing.

****

While not every conference will benefit, it seems logical that the CAA, SoCon and MEAC at the very least should benefit from their "hot spots" enough to credit themselves with increased attendance. That won't be the case for the PL or Ivy, unless both these games get way above average attendance to make up the deficit.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Just glancing at the non-public schools, and it seems that Liberty U. is the attendance leader. What is the draw there? I suspect this is largely student attendance which is nice for them.

[Sader87]

While in general the Ivy and Patriot numbers may be down this year, they haven't "plummeted" in general. The fact remains that the Ivies (and to a certain extent HC) still draw as well, if not better, than the majority of the FCS schools. They don't draw as well as when they were all D1 status up until 1981 but they aren't being passed by many schools/leagues (outside of the rare ODU...who is more of a novelty more than anything).

[ngineer]

Lehigh Bus making the trip to Fordham:


http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7544/shortbusthumb.jpg


So sad, so sad . . . .


* * * * * * * *

Funny, but still a lot bigger that what travels to Lafayette's away games. Actually there will be two full Trans-Bridge buses heading to the Bronx on Saturday with real supporters, not just front runners.;)

[ngineer]

You made me break out the spreadsheet.

The top 10 in FCS right now (which don't include any PL or Ivy teams) are up on average by 13,000 total fans.

Not counting ODU, which didn't play last year and are averaging 19,872 per game, seven schools are already posting an improvement over last year (Montana, App, South Carolina State, NCA&T, Jackson State, JMU, Liberty) and three did not perform as well (Delaware, North Dakota State, Georgia Southern).

Topping the gainers are South Carolina State (up 55.6% from last year) and NCA&T (up 20.8% from last year). Georgia Southern's was the worst at -6.5%.

****

With a caveat that the Ivies still have "The Game" to play (and a big game this weekend between Harvard and Penn), only Brown has seen an increase from this year to last year (5,139 to 6,440 on average, or up 25%). Every other school has seen a loss, and the average number of fans has plummeted by 14,202 fans from last year. Harvard's two final games might reverse this trend, but I seriously doubt it.

Dartmouth (-26%) is the biggest loser, followed closely by Princeton (-23%). Yale (-41%)'s loss is really due to "The Game" skewing their numbers - at 13,384, their attendance is tops in the Ivy.

****

The PL is not as bad off as the Ivy League, but it hasn't made up for the shortfall from Lehigh (down to 6,866 from 9,854, or 30%) from last year. While Holy Cross, Colgate and Lafayette are up a little (all up just about 10%) and Georgetown is basically the same as last year, Lehigh's loss plus the losses at Fordham (7%) and Bucknell (17.6%) mean that there is still a shortfall of 2,033 from last year.

And that seems unlikely to reverse an overall slide negative, even with "The Rivalry". Assuming a sellout crowd of 16,000 and not too much of a change, Lehigh's average would go up to 8,171, which would still be a deficit.

Incredible to think that Lehigh's average attendance would not eclipse 10,000 in a "Rivalry" year, but that's what's in the offing.

****

While not every conference will benefit, it seems logical that the CAA, SoCon and MEAC at the very least should benefit from their "hot spots" enough to credit themselves with increased attendance. That won't be the case for the PL or Ivy, unless both these games get way above average attendance to make up the deficit.

Actually in looking back at historical figures, Lehigh's 'high water marks' were, as expected in 1999-01, when were were undefeated. Over the many decades, even going back to Taylor Stadium, average attendance was usually 7-9,000, with an occasional 10,000 ave. Starting in 1991 the attendance began to average 10,000 almost annually, except for '96 and '97. Even during Lembo's era, 2004 resulted in an average of only 9, 101. So, without being analytical, it would appear that you need to have a front-runner factor of 2,000.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Lafayette/Holy Cross will be the only FCS game broadcast on ESPN360 this weekend:

http://espn.go.com/broadband/espn360/schedule?

This means there should be a very high quality stream available for everyone. Alumni and fans across the US will now be able to see this game. :) I hope they use our homers to call the game and not their homers. xthumbsupx

I have it on good authority that computer-generated graphics will be used to fill the stands on the visitors' side xrolleyesx, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go to the game if you live in the Northeast. Borrow a car from a Mountain Bawk xeekx if you need to - they won't be needing them. xbawlingx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Great news! My weekend plans are all a mess right now, but this will make it easier for me to watch the game. xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's official - Laubach and Leone will handle the the ESPN360 & ESPN GamePlan call this weekend. I expect them to be 25 - 35 % less homer than normal, but they might not be able to bite their tongues if something really good happens. All bets are off in the event of a Pard win, of course . . . .

[Sader87]

GD rain is going to kill attendence...shame.

[letsgopards04]

Just glancing at the non-public schools, and it seems that Liberty U. is the attendance leader. What is the draw there? I suspect this is largely student attendance which is nice for them.

They have good team. I guess watching their team beat up on the Big South is a draw. Maybe the type of person that attends a Liberty may have more sense of school pride than the type that a Lafayette is trying to get (eg ultra-leftist bookworms or richie riches that couldn't care less).

[Pard94]

GD rain is going to kill attendence...shame.

I know...this is shaping up to be one nasty day weather-wise. I think all Lafayette and HC supporters should agree right now that there can be no whining about the weather if our respective team loses. All 22 players will be playing in the same conditions. Both teams rely heavily on an air attack. All's fair in love, war and football in November. Yes?

[letsgopards04]

I know...this is shaping up to be one nasty day weather-wise. I think all Lafayette and HC supporters should agree right now that there can be no whining about the weather if our respective team loses. All 22 players will be playing in the same conditions. Both teams rely heavily on an air attack. All's fair in love, war and football in November. Yes?

I concur. However I think we can run on Holy Cross' defense but I am not sure if they can run on ours (regardless of how Colgate did).

[Franks Tanks]

I concur. However I think we can run on Holy Cross' defense but I am not sure if they can run on ours (regardless of how Colgate did).

Randolph has been their leading rusher of late when scrambling, He can move and it makes defending him that much harder.

[Pard94]

I concur. However I think we can run on Holy Cross' defense but I am not sure if they can run on ours (regardless of how Colgate did).

I think it was Frank's Tanks who brought up the very good point that our defense seems to be more susceptable to the power running game. Colgate has the best power running back in the league (probably the best back period). He rammed it down our throat early and often and it still wasn't enough for the win. I don't believe HC has an Eachus in their considerable stable of talent. If they did they's be a serious threat to win the NC. As it stands I think we can contain their running attack. Deluge or not...their air attack still scares the hell out of me.

[Pard4Life]

GD rain is going to kill attendence...shame.

Of all things... a bleeping Nor'easter!!!

[Pard94]

Of all things... a bleeping Nor'easter!!!

I admit that I'd rather be dry tomorrow watching the game. That being said this game, on paper, has all the stufff of legend. Top offense vs. the top defense. The league championship is on the line. The star QB and his aresenal vs. a team of no names. Nationally ranked teams on both sides. And now nothing less than a Noreaster and the backdrop. It's straight out of The Tempest! I have a feeling we will be talking about this for a long time. xnodx

[Pard4Life]

I admit that I'd rather be dry tomorrow watching the game. That being said this game, on paper, has all the stufff of legend. Top offense vs. the top defense. The league championship is on the line. The star QB and his aresenal vs. a team of no names. Nationally ranked teams on both sides. And now nothing less than a Noreaster and the backdrop. It's straight out of The Tempest! I have a feeling we will be talking about this for a long time. xnodx

True, but you are also 3 hours closer! xbawlingx

[Pard4Life]

Any revisions?

HC-LC: 6,000
H-P: 7,500

[Bogus Megapardus]

Any revisions?

HC-LC: 6,000
H-P: 7,500

" . . . and on the sixth day the Lord with a stroke of his palm (and the generous backing of the Diocese of Worcester) lowered a Dome upon Fitton Field just in time for kickoff, and He saw that it was good . . . "


* * * * * * * * * *

[Pard94]

" . . . and on the sixth day the Lord with a stroke of his palm (and the generous backing of the Diocese of Worcester) lowered a Dome upon Fitton Field just in time for kickoff, and He saw that it was good . . . "


* * * * * * * * * *

"...and under the dome the Lord smote the wicked Crusaders who made war in his name. And he smote all of the enemies of the Leopards, driving the very hawks from the mountains. And the Leopards lived prosperously for all of the days of the lord".

Amen.xpeacex

[Bogus Megapardus]

"...and under the dome the Lord smote the wicked Crusaders who made war in his name. And he smote all of the enemies of the Leopards, driving the very hawks from the mountains. And the Leopards lived prosperously for all of the days of the lord".

Amen.xpeacex

xbowxxbowxxbowx

[Sader87]

Any revisions?

HC-LC: 6,000
H-P: 7,500

I'll still put LC@HC at 8,500. Quackers @ Crimson&Clover: 8,000.

It's really a shame in that I think Fitton had a chance to be 15,000+ on a good day weather-wise.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'll still put LC@HC at 8,500. Quackers @ Crimson&Clover: 8,000.

It's really a shame in that I think Fitton had a chance to be 15,000+ on a good day weather-wise.

Sader, I like your optimism. Call it 9,500 for the Saders and 9,000 for second place in the Ivy League in Cambridge. xthumbsupx