Which I-AA programs are the most successful financially?

[aries75]

An earlier thread (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=468) about Old Dominion considering a return of its football program made me wonder - which schools are currently the biggest moneymakers, and how would they compare to similar-sized schools at the I-A level?

[putter]

I would think you could look at the top attendance schools and start there. I know at Montana the football program, in large part, funds a lot of the other sports. If you put over 15,000 in the stands I would think that the sport is a money maker for you school.

[JMU2004]

JMU makes about 600K/yr in profit.....It should be way up this year though due to the NC and breaking the attendance record

[yomama]

Iona listed FY 04 football revenue as $28,123...one of the few honest accountings of football revenue furnished to the Department of Education. So many other I-AA schools list subsidies on the balance sheet as revenue- to the extent that revenues and expenditures often balance to the penny.

I mention Iona because their losses of approximately $300,000 probably put them in a better financial position than most private schools in I-AA. Compare to Patriot League schools spending over $3 million and eating nearly all of it.

[Pen Guin]

Don't count on it JMU. There is a tremendous expense in the post-season ... and this was your first real pay-out. I think your regular season attendance, around 13k (average), was very impressive and a top-10 performance. This is where your money will come. If not last year, certainly this next season. I predict a huge increase in season ticket sales for the Dukes. Although, most universities pull the post-season monies from their budgets, if they were able to obtain it from private institutions or organizations (ie: the alumni association, booster organizations, etc.) Nice thread, keep us posted when the results come in.

[*****]

... There is a tremendous expense in the post-season ...What part of it doesn't the NCAA cover as part of their running their tournament? I'm asking about the expense to the school and how that prevents schools from being successful financially.

[JMU2004]

good point....we'll have to see if the playoffs took a big bite. I bet they did

[ngineer]

The PL doesn't run their athletic departments to make a profit. As corny as it sounds, the institutions believe that intercollegiate athletics can be part of the educational process. People don't wonder if the Math department or Chemistry dept. turned "profits", why the athletics if one believes in their true mission? In fact, at Lehigh, what most schools call the Athletic Director, is known as the Dean of Athletics.

[*****]

... at Lehigh, what most schools call the Athletic Director, is known as the Dean of Athletics. :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

[DFW HOYA]

By some media accounts only 10 or so schools in I-AA clear a profit. I'd think Delaware is on that list, along with SWAC schools like Grambling and Southern that make a lot off of the "classic" games, and the eventual national champion each year.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Yale made back its money, esp. in the years when it hosts Harvard at the Yale Bowl.

[Tribe4SF]

I'd be surprised if JMU made money on the playoffs since they traveled for all four games. NCAA has limits on how many players and personnel they will pay to travel. I'm sure JMU exceeded those limits for the W&M game and the title game. I've heard estimates that UMass lost over $100,000 on its title run, which also featured alot of travel.

[*****]

... I've heard estimates that UMass lost over $100,000 on its title run, which also featured alot of travel.A school loses money if they overspend what the NCAA pays for, like UMass did.

[Tribe4SF]

I know the I-AA committee recommended an increase in the size of travel parties. Hope that gets enacted. The old limits were too low and schools were not going to leave out people who they saw as an integral part of their program or their success.

[P2TheB]

By what I have found from the Financial Records website for all colllege/universities in North America:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/instlist.asp

I have found that UNI loses about $800,000, but that number is kind of inflated, b/c it takes into account football scholarships, and UNI's football scholarships are fulfilled through the UNI Athletic Club money (i.e.-revenue not counted). That number also does not reflect the money from corporate sponsorships and advertising, as well as student fees (students get in free, with ID)...just straight gate money.

[ccujacket]

By what I have found from the Financial Records website for all colllege/universities in North America:
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/instlist.asp

I have found that UNI loses about $800,000, but that number is kind of inflated, b/c it takes into account football scholarships, and UNI's football scholarships are fulfilled through the UNI Athletic Club money (i.e.-revenue not counted). That number also does not reflect the money from corporate sponsorships and advertising, as well as student fees (students get in free, with ID)...just straight gate money.
Based on that info we were a push. Revenue and Expenses we're identical. Interesting.

[*****]

I know the I-AA committee recommended an increase in the size of travel parties. Hope that gets enacted. The old limits were too low and schools were not going to leave out people who they saw as an integral part of their program or their success.Then they are to blame for "losing money" in the tournament. This is cost containment football so if a school overspends then they shouldn't complain.

[Tribe4SF]

Then they are to blame for "losing money" in the tournament. This is cost containment football so if a school overspends then they shouldn't complain.

I don't think anyone was complaining. I was just pointing out that if you travel in the playoffs, you're certainly not making money on it.

[henfan]

I no longer have the link but there was a report that UMaine and SHSU both made money traveling to playoff destinations a couple of years back. I'd guess both schools traveled within the NCAA allowance. There's some opportunity with the per diem but the budget has to be very lean.

I agree that increased expense allowance will be a good thing, especially if the NCAA plans to resume seeding more than 4 teams.

[henfan]

An earlier thread about Old Dominion considering a return of its football program made me wonder - which schools are currently the biggest moneymakers, and how would they compare to similar-sized schools at the I-A level?

Top money makers (according to EADA reports) for 2003/04:
1. Southern U - $2,170,256 profit on football though expenses appear to be way out of kilter- i.e., too low
2. Delaware- $1,438,951
3. JMU- $832,135
4. Tennessee St- $785,341
5. Montana- $593,641 they had some deficeit issues that year & will likely claim much higher revenues in future years

There's little difference between revenues/expenses of the upper half of I-AA and the lower quadrant of I-A.

[HensRock]

Liberty also showed a profit of over $1M. But as the case with Southern, the expenses look suspect. 1.7M revenue vs. 697K expenses????

[Fordham]

bates motel + bread & water = playoff profits!

henfan, are those numbers seriously supposed to be profit? ... or is it strictly revenue? seems waaay out of line if it's profit, no?

[henfan]

Fordham, those were profits for the entire season, not just the playoffs. Sorry for the confusion.

[Pard94]

...and say that Lafayatte is not one of the bigger money makers. I have no facts to support this...only common sense.

[ccujacket]

I was bored, so I looked up the income for the Big South and SoCon. These are all from that OPE website.

Big South
Liberty: $1,015,527
G-W: $109,594
Chuck So: $51,247
Coastal: $0
VMI: -$626,321

Southern Conference
Furman: $5,456
Western Carolina: -$175,176
UT-C: -$563,696
App State: -$1,192,316
Georgia Southern: -$1,421,080
Wofford: -$1,492,772
Elon: -$1,698,448

Interesting.

[Fordham]

Fordham, those were profits for the entire season, not just the playoffs. Sorry for the confusion. actually it was me who wasn't clear since i was assuming these were full year figures and still think they seem ridiculously high.

For UD's $1.4MM, what is the total revenue produced by the program? And do they have a breakdown of that somewhere?

Thanks

[Hansel]

I was bored, so I looked up the income for the Big South and SoCon. These are all from that OPE website.

Big South
Liberty: $1,015,527
G-W: $109,594
Chuck So: $51,247
Coastal: $0
VMI: -$626,321

Southern Conference
Furman: $5,456
Western Carolina: -$175,176
UT-C: -$563,696
App State: -$1,192,316
Georgia Southern: -$1,421,080
Wofford: -$1,492,772
Elon: -$1,698,448

Interesting.

I am assuming that is net profit/loss and not income....

[ccujacket]

I am assuming that is net profit/loss and not income....
Yes. You are correct. My mistake.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Top money makers (according to EADA reports) for 2003/04:
1. Southern U - $2,170,256 profit on football though expenses appear to be way out of kilter- i.e., too low
2. Delaware- $1,438,951
3. JMU- $832,135
4. Tennessee St- $785,341
5. Montana- $593,641 they had some deficeit issues that year & will likely claim much higher revenues in future years

There's little difference between revenues/expenses of the upper half of I-AA and the lower quadrant of I-A.
I don't think those numbers include the Bayou Classic. Most of the Bayou Classic money goes to the Southern University Foundation and not athletics. :mad:

[henfan]

For UD's $1.4MM, what is the total revenue produced by the program? And do they have a breakdown of that somewhere?

Total UD FB revs were $4,690,703 vs. total FB expns of $3,251,752. These numbers seem right in line with the EADA figures that UD's supplied going back to the '97/'98 season. UD FB has averaged slightly over $1M total profit per year over that period of time. (Incidentally, while the UD FB program is making money, most of those profits are being consumed by non-rev Olympic sports.)

The '03/'04 UD FB numbers are a little higher than usual due to the 10 home games played during that FB season. I suspect the '04/'05 figures will be lower- a little closer to $1M net profit. We'll know when the EADA numbers are released in Oct. '05.

The link to all schools EADA reports was provided earlier in this thread.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.asp

[Ronbo]

Top money makers (according to EADA reports) for 2003/04:
1. Southern U - $2,170,256 profit on football though expenses appear to be way out of kilter- i.e., too low
2. Delaware- $1,438,951
3. JMU- $832,135
4. Tennessee St- $785,341
5. Montana- $593,641 they had some deficeit issues that year & will likely claim much higher revenues in future years

There's little difference between revenues/expenses of the upper half of I-AA and the lower quadrant of I-A.

Yes our expenses include throwing a couple hundred thousand towards the deficit and also paying off the multi million stadium expansion. The stadium expansion is paid in 2007 and the deficit in 2008. We should be up around Delaware's profit then, but they are already talking about another stadium expansion in 2007.

[henfan]

Ronbo, it seems highly unlikely that costs related to UM' s FB stadium expansion would come out of the FB budget. Aren't capital improvement projects included in the General Fund?

[*****]

... The link to all schools EADA reports was provided earlier in this thread.
http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/Search.aspWhat is your analysis of these reports? How correct are they? What are pros and cons?

Thanks!

[Ronbo]

Ronbo, it seems highly unlikely that costs related to UM' s FB stadium expansion would come out of the FB budget. Aren't capital improvement projects included in the General Fund?

Partly, but I've read from some insiders to the program that not only is the football program paying on the stadium expansion but also the Arena remodeling.

[polsongrizz]

Partly, but I've read from some insiders to the program that not only is the football program paying on the stadium expansion but also the Arena remodeling.
That is how I understand it also...

[henfan]

What is your analysis of these reports? How correct are they? What are pros and cons?

Ralph, IMO, some of the figures reported are highly suspect, others seem to be reasonably accurate. If you look at enough of the reports over a period of several years, you begin to notice which ones are way off kilter. (Balancing revs and expenses to the dollar is usually one sign that something isn't right.)

For years there's been much confusion over the lack of clarity in EADA reporting methods. The NCAA has moved recently to implement a more consistent means of accounting for the purposes of EADAs. The new accounting methodology takes place this year.
http://www.ncaa.org/news/2004/20040816/active/4117n02.html

At this point, I'm not sure we can totally trust EADA reports to do an apples-to-apples comparisons of NCAA schools. In lieu of schools opening up their books to public scrutiny though (or revealing the EADA Worksheet numbers), the reports are the best info we're likely to get.