FCS by Charlie (collegecharlie.com) Preseason Poll

[danefan]

This one is for Ivytalk! xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxthumbsupx

1. Montana
2. Appalachian State
3. Richmond
4. James Madison
5. N. Iowa
6. Harvard
7. Weber State
8. Yale
9. Villanova
10. New Hampshire
11. Wofford
12. William & Mary
13. Texas State
14. Eastern Kentucky
15. Maine
16. Colgate
17. Elon
18. Liberty
19. Central Arkansas
20. Wild Card

http://www.collegecharlie.com/fcs.html

[McNeese75]

xlolx Can't help but laugh at this one.

[BossEagle]

Charlie!!!! (that really hurt)

[bluehenbillk]

xnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxnonoxxn onoxxnonox

[danefan]

If you take out the Ivy's he doesn't have horrible top 17.


1. Montana
2. Appalachian State
3. Richmond
4. James Madison
5. N. Iowa
6.Weber State
7. Villanova
8. New Hampshire
9. Wofford
10. William & Mary
11. Texas State
12. Eastern Kentucky
13. Maine
14. Colgate
15. Elon
16. Liberty
17. Central Arkansas


Colgate and Liberty are questionable, but without the Ivy's its not horrible.

[Tribe4SF]

Charlie's a little behind. Conference links on the left still has Atlantic 10, Gateway and Mid-Atlantic.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Probably a 15 year old who has dreams of going to an Ivy League school and thinks sucking up like that will get him in. :) LOL

[andy7171]

Charlie isn't a Blue Hen fan.

[danefan]

Charlie isn't a Blue Hen fan.


xlolxxlolxxlolxxnodxxnodxxnodx

http://www.bandtc.co.uk/images/library/logo.gif

[Syntax Error]

I have season tickets to Wild Card!

[TexasTerror]

If you take out the Ivy's he doesn't have horrible top 17.
Colgate and Liberty are questionable, but without the Ivy's its not horrible.

I don't disagree with having any Ivy League schools amongst the top 20. Yale is deserving. May not be worthy of a top 10 spot, but I find it debatable about Yale's case for a top 20 as would be the case for any team that posts 8-9 wins in the Ivy League.

[danefan]

I don't disagree with having any Ivy League schools amongst the top 20. Yale is deserving. May not be worthy of a top 10 spot, but I find it debatable about Yale's case for a top 20 as would be the case for any team that posts 8-9 wins in the Ivy League.

IMO, no Ivy league team has done anything to deserve a top 20 preseason ranking. That's not smack. That's my opinion and my opinion is based on fact. The Ivy's had ZERO wins last year that would be worthy of recognition in the top 20. 20-25 - perhaps. Wins over the PL are not good enough anymore.

Thanks for the red chicklet too by the way. I'll continue to voice my opinion on the overinflation of the Ivy and PL teams in every single poll and ranking that comes out.

You've yet to explain to anyone why the Ivy's deserve to be ranked in the top 20. In fact, I'm waiting for anyone, not just you, to explain it to me.

[Dane96]

I find it funny regarding the Ivy's blanket inclusion in people's polls and/or rankings. Having seen enough of them play over the years...there have been some very deserving teams in the Top 25.

However, much like the PL, I too find the blanket inclusion ironic considering so many people have written/talked about the loss of the IVY luster. Yes, you can argue that is from the old days (i.e. FBS before it was FBS)....but in truth...the Ivy's, PL's, and NEC's are primarily the same right now.

[TexasTerror]

IMO, no Ivy league team has done anything to deserve a top 20 preseason anking. That's not smack. That's my opinion and my opinion is based on fact. The Ivy's had ZERO wins last year that would be worthy of recognition in the top 20. 20-25 - perhaps. Wins over the PL are not good enough anymore.

Why are wins over the Patriot League no good anymore? It's not like the PL is in the dump of the FCS spectrum. Especially when they are beating the champion(s) of the league?

I think we'll have a better idea of what the Ivy League brings as they continue to schedule more games outside of their typical reach. If they win those games, it will lend even more credibility.

Ivy League in GPI - Harvard #15 was higher than the top teams in the Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, SWAC, MEAC, Southland and NEC. In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32) was higher than the NEC, Pioneer and SWAC). They have four Ivy teams before the second NEC,

The problem with your whole Ivy vs NEC debate is that the NEC is so weak at the bottom. The league has a few too many bottom-feeders and the teams at the top have yet to show their stripes as consistent players in the top 25.

The Ivy - they have consistently had multiple teams in the top 25, 30 of the GPI.

You guys have room to grow...

[Syntax Error]

...the Ivy's, PL's, and NEC's are primarily the same right now.That is what the NEC people at AGS say. Over and over. xcoffeex BTW, this "thing" isn't a poll.

[Dane96]

Are you serious?

GPI is determined by where the team sits in the polls. If a league is pre-weighted as higher than some others (undeservingly based on named recognition) or a team starts the season rated higher (undeservingly) the other teams behind them are inherently playing catch up right up until the day the GPI combines them all.

As someone who has seen enough IVY games (my dad was an Asst. at Holy Cross many years ago...I live in Boston, and I grew up going to Columbia and Cornell games), I admit there have been great IVY squads.

Columbia was blech...and Dartmouth was downright atrocious. Cornell got rocked in conference and didnt do that well out of conference. See no difference between these guys at St. Francis and Wagner. BUT....HARVARD and the IVY were predetermined to rank higher than the top of the NEC...so the NEC had to chase them.

You really think Harvard deserved a 15 over the Danes in the end? Come on.
However, I can firmly say there wasnt an IVY I saw last year that would have take the wood to Albany, as an example. In fact, i would say that what I saw from Harvard, Albany would have taken 7 out of 10 games.

Not a knock...just my opinion. Now there have been Harvard squads that would have taken the Danes to the shed in past years...but not last year.

And frankly, saying the NEC is so weak at the bottom compared to the Ivy's....I say really? There are two bottom feeders...Wagner and St. Francis...and Wagner more for their scheduling.

[Dane96]

That is what the NEC people at AGS say. Over and over. xcoffeex BTW, this "thing" isn't a poll.

Actually...that is what the coaches, recruiters, and reasonable fans of all the leagues say.

Seriously...shall we dredge up the PL coaches who were quoted in the articles as saying it was clear the NEC was right there with PL?

I dont have the time or inclination to do so, but if we are being truthful...those comments were stated.

[jmufan999]

oh my god, here we go again. i just don't see ANY logic in having a team other than UR or ASU in the top spot. especially after the lopsided national championship game last year and the fact that montana lost a senior QB. not sure how that gets you to #1. no sour grapes at all, i don't think JMU should be as high as #4 either (and yes, Montana should still be ahead of JMU). point is, UR or ASU should be #1, i can't see how an argument (ok, a logical argument) could be made for a team other than those two. MAYBE Nova, but to me it's UR and ASU.... then everyone else. at least for right now. lots can change, especially in those two tough conferences.

[danefan]

Why are wins over the Patriot League no good anymore? It's not like the PL is in the dump of the FCS spectrum. Especially when they are beating the champion(s) of the league?

PL wins hold no water to rank the Ivy's because the PL is overinflated as well. I'm not saying they are the dump of the FCS spectrum. Never said that. They are not the same league that produced Colgate in 2003. Even PL fans have said that. They had one good win last year OOC - Liberty. That's it.




Saying that Albany is not as good as the top Ivy because the bottom of the NEC is not as good as the bottom of the Ivy doesn't do it for me either. Albany hasn't lost an NEC game in 2 years and has lost only 1 in 3 years. Albany hasn't even been challenged by the bottom of the NEC.


You miss the overall point - I'm not arguing Ivy over NEC top to bottom. In some cases I'm arguing that Albany is as good if not better than anyone in the Ivy. In most however, I'm just pointing out voting inconsistencies. It is not consistent to put an Ivy in the top 20 and not include Albany in the poll at all.



I think we'll have a better idea of what the Ivy League brings as they continue to schedule more games outside of their typical reach. If they win those games, it will lend even more credibility.


You are arguing for the Ivy in the same way you are arguing against the NEC. Your argument is that the Ivy should be included even though they haven't proven they can win outside of "their typical reach". But you argue against the NEC by saying "[the] top [of the NEC] have yet to show their stripes as consistent players in the top 25."



Ivy League in GPI - Harvard #15 was higher than the top teams in the Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, SWAC, MEAC, Southland and NEC. In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32) was higher than the NEC, Pioneer and SWAC). They have four Ivy teams before the second NEC,

The problem with your whole Ivy vs NEC debate is that the NEC is so weak at the bottom. The league has a few too many bottom-feeders and the teams at the top have yet to show their stripes as consistent players in the top 25.

The Ivy - they have consistently had multiple teams in the top 25, 30 of the GPI.


Using the GPI to say that Ivy's and PL's should be ranked highly is part of the problem. They are overinflated in the GPI as well. The GPI is nothing more than a compilation of polls and rankings in which the Ivy and PL are consistently overranked. Thus, using the GPI is not evidence either way.



You guys have room to grow...


Without a doubt. I've never argued that the NEC as a whole was anymore than a mid-level FCS conference. But Albany has consistently shown in the last two years that it is playing at a level well above the NEC conference. 18-2 in the last three seasons. 13-0 in the last two.

[Tribe4SF]

I don't disagree with having any Ivy League schools amongst the top 20. Yale is deserving. May not be worthy of a top 10 spot, but I find it debatable about Yale's case for a top 20 as would be the case for any team that posts 8-9 wins in the Ivy League.

Including either Harvard or Yale in this years preseason top 10 is hardly justified. They were fringe top 20 teams last year, and both have been decimated by graduation. Look for Penn to win the Ivy this year.

[andy7171]

Wow. You Albany guys get riled up. :D

On the subject of putting Montana over Appy and Richmond. It's all personal opinion. I would put ASU over Richmond based soley on AE. While the Spiders bring back Ward and 17 other starters, they lose the DL and RB. I like Ward at QB but he's had a nice running game the last two years in Hightower and Vaughn to help him along. 1a and 1b to me. It'll all sort its way out by Christmas.

[MaroonDoom]

I like it Charlie.

[Syntax Error]

PL wins hold no water to rank the Ivy's because the PL is overinflated as well...
Using the GPI to say that Ivy's and PL's should be ranked highly is part of the problem. They are overinflated in the GPI as well. The GPI is nothing more than a compilation of polls and rankings in which the Ivy and PL are consistently overranked. Thus, using the GPI is not evidence either way...
Albany has consistently shown in the last two years that it is playing at a level well above the NEC conference...So, the PL and IVY are overinflated, the GPI (an index of computations) overranks them, and since Albany (currently on NCAA probation) does well in the NEC they are so good (http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/02/04/ualbany-athletics-on-probation?blog=2#more4210) and they should be ranked over PL and IVY teams in any ranking or poll.

Does that sum it up? xcoffeex

[andy7171]

When is the last time an IVY went to Delaware and beat them?

[danefan]

So, the PL and IVY are overinflated, the GPI (an index of computations) overranks them, and since Albany (currently on NCAA probation) does well in the NEC they are so good (http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/02/04/ualbany-athletics-on-probation?blog=2#more4210) and they should be ranked over PL and IVY teams in any ranking or poll.

Does that sum it up? xcoffeex


Completely wrong and nice attempt at spin.

You want a summary? here's one:

The Ivy beats the PL. The PL beats the Ivy. People and computers overrank their circular profiles.

Albany will play anyone, anywhere and for the most part (sans '08 UD) has been competitive against the best teams in the country.

What I'm saying is that the Ivy and PL did nothing last year to warrant the high ranking that Colgate and Harvard ended up with and there is no indication that they deserve to be anywhere above the top 20 this year.

Take Albany out of the equation if you'd like. I still haven't seen any justification that an Ivy or PL deserves to be ranked in the top 20 at the end of last year or in the 09 preseason. The only reason I include Albany is point out the inconsistencies in voting.

And what exactly does Albany's probationary period have anything to do with this discussion? Especially considering the period was over 1 year ago and the violations did nothing to effect the quality of the team (no one who received the text message signed with Albany). To me that sounds like a personal attack on me via my alma mater. Perhaps I'm just misinterpreting some attempt at humor?

[Dane96]

Syntax...with your ever wonderful Albany skew why dont you expound upon the truth:

''This is the first time in the history of the athletic program that we've experienced any citation for a major violation,'' UAlbany Athletic Director Lee McElroy said. ''The text messaging was not a deliberate NCAA violation and it did not give either of these programs any kind of competitive advantage.''

"The NCAA said UAlbany's football program sent a total of 331 messages to 220 prospects. However, McElroy said none of the contacted recruits ended up attending UAlbany."

The NCAA agreed to accept the school's self-imposed punishment and refrained from further sanctions.

[Dane96]

When is the last time an IVY went to Delaware and beat them?

Or took Montana and UMASS deep into the fourth quarter.

Reppies for Andy.

[danefan]

Or took Montana and UMASS deep into the fourth quarter.

Reppies for Andy.


Or beat a CAA team? In fact when was the last time the Ivy beat any noteworthy team OOC except a PL team? Not in 07 or 08.


And I hate to continue to what looks like piling on the Ivy's because I really do think that the top of the Ivy is good. I think its a very similar level as the top of the NEC. But that's not how people view them.

[elon77]

Charlie isn't a Blue Hen fan.

Not an Elon Fan either!

[andy7171]

Or beat a CAA team? In fact when was the last time the Ivy beat any noteworthy team OOC except a PL team? Not in 07 or 08.


And I hate to continue to what looks like piling on the Ivy's because I really do think that the top of the Ivy is good. I think its a very similar level as the top of the NEC. But that's not how people view them.

xeekx

Whew! I knew Towson got clobbered by Yale, but it was back when we were in the PL without scholarships.

We're 2-0 vs the Ivies since joining the CAA.

[Dane96]

Or beat a CAA team? In fact when was the last time the Ivy beat any noteworthy team OOC except a PL team? Not in 07 or 08.


And I hate to continue to what looks like piling on the Ivy's because I really do think that the top of the Ivy is good. I think its a very similar level as the top of the NEC. But that's not how people view them.

Hasnt done donkey doo in years.....not one signature win...even against a down team:

2003- Yale beat a very young and growing Towson by a huge margin.
2007- Penn gets beat by Villanova
2007- Dartmouth gets toyed with by UNH
2008- Harvard beats a solid Holy Cross squad (a squad that beat Harvard the year before)2008- Brown gets trounced by Rhode Island
2008- Princeton gets beat by the Citadel
2008- Penn gets beat by Villanova
2008- Columbia gets beat by Towson

Part of the reason is they schedule NO ONE. IN fact, outside of Wagner...they probably schedule the worst out of the three leagues we are comparing: the PL, the IVY's and the NEC.

[dgreco]

Brown beat URI :D

[danefan]

Brown beat URI :D

In 2005 - so that appears to be the last Ivy win over the CAA.

[andy7171]

Yeah we beat Cornell in '04 or '05 too, I think.

[Dane96]

In 2005 - so that appears to be the last Ivy win over the CAA.

Which is why I left it off the list...because it was SO far gone from the time when the NEC's made their push forward.

[Syntax Error]

Completely wrong and nice attempt at spin.

sounds like a personal attack on me via my alma mater.Spin? I directly quoted you. There was no personal attack or attack on Albany. Please do not get out of control anymore. xcoffeex

[Syntax Error]

Syntax...with your ever wonderful Albany skew why dont you expound upon the truth...Okay, I didn't write anything that skewed Albany. How's that?

Every ranking brings out the Dane tag team to blast the Ivy/PL/PFL and often the MEAC/SWAC/OVC/BSO too. I keep forgetting to not reply. Carry on Daners!

[andy7171]

Spin? I directly quoted you. There was no personal attack or attack on Albany. Please do not get out of control anymore. xcoffeex

Out of control? He took your statement, as I did, as a smear against Albany's football program. You were inferring that the Dane's success was due, at least in part, because it was a dirty program. At least that's how I took it. xpeacex

[Syntax Error]

... the Dane's success was due, at least in part, because it was a dirty program...There. Now you have smeared the Albany program, I didn't. xcoffeex

This ranking does not merit continuing a discussion in this thread IMO.

[Dane96]

Out of control? He took your statement, as I did, as a smear against Albany's football program. You were inferring that the Dane's success was due, at least in part, because it was a dirty program. At least that's how I took it. xpeacex

As did we!

Now if we had made the same statement, a nice red mark would show up.....

[Dane96]

There. Now you have smeared the Albany program, I didn't. xcoffeex

This ranking does not merit continuing a discussion in this thread IMO.

Really? what he said is that WE (collectively) inferred you were smearing the program by implying we were good because we were dirty.

In fact, that is what you were stating by bringing that up out of nowhere...much like a petulant child would when losing an argument.

ANDY DID NOT, AS A FACT, STATE HE THOUGHT UA WAS A DIRTY PROGRAM.

SE could only hope to be looked at in the same light-- in as many circles-- as Bob Ford is.

Hell, I could only hope to have the same respect that is given to Bob Ford....guy is one of the best people you will ever meet....and the commentary-- with no relevance to the argument-- was a slight on him and his program.

[UAalum72]

Every ranking brings out the Dane tag team to blast the Ivy/PL/PFL and often the MEAC/SWAC/OVC/BSO too.
I don't think anyone's blasted the Big South. For the MEAC/SWAC/OVC, only pointing out they haven't done a lot more than what you want the NEC to accomplish, at least in this century.

[andy7171]

There. Now you have smeared the Albany program, I didn't. xcoffeex

This ranking does not merit continuing a discussion in this thread IMO.

A good thing I don't consider slander a personal attack! xsmiley_wix

...I've seen people get strikes for less.

[coover]

Cal Poly just doesn't get any respect. Let's see what happens after Ohio U and San Jose State!

I really do believe we are better than "Wild Card", evidently an ineligible former DII moving up to FCS

[Franks Tanks]

Or took Montana and UMASS deep into the fourth quarter.

Reppies for Andy.

Last year a medicore Penn team played Nova and the score was 20-14. Penn plays Nova and Dartmouth plays UMASS-- that is pretty much the only Ivy CAA matchups in a given year.

Ivies just dont play outside of their bubble very often so its very hard to say they are over or underrated.

[Mod33]

A warning to all - please keep this thread clean of the continued smack and personal attacks against each other. This thread is about a poll done by "College Charlie". Leave it at that. Strikes to all parties involved if this continues.

[danefan]

A warning to all - please keep this thread clean of the continued smack and personal attacks against each other. This thread is about a poll done by "College Charlie". Leave it at that. Strikes to all parties involved if this continues.

Strikes for what?

There is no smack talk going on. There are positions being taken and backed up with fact. Some perhaps with more fact than others, but......

Since when is that smack?

[danefan]

Okay, I didn't write anything that skewed Albany. How's that?

Every ranking brings out the Dane tag team to blast the Ivy/PL/PFL and often the MEAC/SWAC/OVC/BSO too. I keep forgetting to not reply. Carry on Daners!

Please reply with actual facts that refute our claims. I've been waiting for 2 years now.

[aceinthehole]

The OVERALL conference strength in the NEC has a long way to go. I think all NEC fans realize the bottom tier of our league is still pretty weak.

For the most part SFPA, Wagner and SHU have been some of the weakest teams in all of FCS. They are slowly building programs that will compete against scholarship programs. They still have a long way to go.

The middle tier of the NEC (RMU, Bryant, Duquesne) is bridging the gap a little quicker and are competative in FCS, but have not achived a breakthrough win vs scholarship/eqiv programs, but show near-term promise.

The top of the NEC (UA, Monmouth, CCSU) has already proven they can beat very good programs on the road. These 3 teams have taken down some top teams from AQ conferences (CAA, SoCon, PL) and have regularly challenged ranked teams.

It is these 3 teams that have been "on par" with the top teams in the Ivy and PL. For any voter to not consider these NEC teams in top-25 polls, is not being consistant if they are also considering teams like Harvard, Yale, Colgate and Lehigh.

These 3 NEC teams have beat PL, CAA, and SoCon teams on the road!

How about this FACT: An NEC team has defeated the PL champ 3 out of the last 4 seasons!

2007 - Fordham lost to Albany
2006 - Lehigh lost to Albany
2005 - Colgate lost to CCSU

- When was the last time a Ivy team won on the road vs. a CAA team? (Albany won at Delaware in 2006 and at Hofstra in 2008)

This is why Albany (and all NEC fans) are offended when voters rank Ivy and PL teams without considering the NEC.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'll be interested to see what happens between CCSU and Lehigh this year. I really don't see CCSU beating the Hawks or really coming close. Lehigh i think, might be one of the most over looked teams in the country. Albany beat Lehigh in 2006 which began the worst 3 year stretch in 20 years for the Hawks. Lehigh split the league title with Lafayette in 2006 even though the 'Pards killed Lehigh. That was not a very good Lehigh team. Lehigh has been the most consistent program in the league since it's inception and i have to believe that their struggles has also affected the PL.

[MaximumBobcat]

A warning to all - please keep this thread clean of the continued smack and personal attacks against each other. This thread is about a poll done by "College Charlie". Leave it at that. Strikes to all parties involved if this continues.

lol, whatever you say Fike.

[wideright82]

As official judge and chalk handler........................................... ............................




































CHALK THIS ONE UP FOR THE DANES!!!!!!

[andy7171]

Seems like this place has been clean up a bit.

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh i think, might be one of the most over looked teams in the country. Albany beat Lehigh in 2006 which began the worst 3 year stretch in 20 years for the Hawks.

Just 20 years? Imagine a team with its worst three year stretch in school history. Even over the last 20 years it isn't very good.

Georgetown Hoyas 1986-88: 16-8-1
Georgetown Hoyas 1996-98: 21-9-0
Georgetown Hoyas 2006-08: 5-27-0

[89Hen]

- When was the last time a Ivy team won on the road vs. a CAA team? (Albany won at Delaware in 2006 and at Hofstra in 2008)

This is why Albany (and all NEC fans) are offended when voters rank Ivy and PL teams without considering the NEC.
I think I recall one of the media experts ranking Harvard #1 in the country for several weeks a few years back. xwhistlex

[LUHawker]

I'll be interested to see what happens between CCSU and Lehigh this year. I really don't see CCSU beating the Hawks or really coming close. Lehigh i think, might be one of the most over looked teams in the country.

I agree that Lehigh is probably being grossly overlooked at this stage, but it is really a "show-me" story, so no recognition until it puts up W's.

I've also stated several times and Aceinthehole has marked it down, that Lehigh will defeat CCSU this year. I'm not ready to say that CCSU couldn't come close, particularly early in the season, but based upon how the team finished last year and how it looked in the spring, this is probably the best opportunity to do some damage in the league and hopefully beyond in several years.



Lehigh has been the most consistent program in the league since it's inception and i have to believe that their struggles has also affected the PL.

I'll preempt the abuse you might take from Colgate fans by acknowledging that Colgate MAY also have a claim at the most consistent program since the league started. Even when the expectation is that Colgate will have a "re-building" year, somehow Biddle gets good performance out of the team - at least in League play. Excepting 2003, post-season performance has been dismal.

[Redbird Ray]

Didn't see the Salukies in this poll. I may have bias toward the MVC, but SIU is a top 15 team in all the legit national polls. There's no way some of those schools are better than SIU, probably SDSU as well.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

I'll preempt the abuse you might take from Colgate fans by acknowledging that Colgate MAY also have a claim at the most consistent program since the league started. Even when the expectation is that Colgate will have a "re-building" year, somehow Biddle gets good performance out of the team - at least in League play. Excepting 2003, post-season performance has been dismal.


I'll stop them before they say it, no way. Colgate was pretty bad the first 10 years of the league. Even if you include Colgates 2003 run the average score in their playoff games is 51-18. That's beyond terrible.
1987 7-4
1988 2-9
1989 4-7
1990 7-4
1991 4-7, some how they beat a great Lehigh team in Hamilton by 1
1992 4-7
1993 3-7-1
1994 3-8
1995 0-11
1996 6-5 Biddle's first year

Lehigh
1987 5-5-1
1988 6-5
1989 5-6
1990 7-4
1991 9-2 Final Top 25 ranking
1992 3-8
1993 7-4 PL Champs
1994 5-5-1
1995 8-3 PL Champs
1996 5-6

[ccharlie]

Facilities, tradition, mystique, schedule, makes Harvard and Yale viable top ten. The Ivy League teams have the money to recruit, etc. But no athletic scholarships!

[Dane96]

Charlie-- that is the most ludicrious statement I have heard in years in FCS.

Hey, the Dutch once ruled the seas...so I guess they are still a world power.

YAWN.

[UAalum72]

How do the 'mystique and tradition' from thirty or ninety years ago relate to the top ten of 2009?

Other than "Well, we've always had them in the top ten before" ?

Mystique and tradition may hold interest or headlines, but don't do much on the field.

[Ivytalk]

IMO, no Ivy league team has done anything to deserve a top 20 preseason ranking. That's not smack. That's my opinion and my opinion is based on fact. The Ivy's had ZERO wins last year that would be worthy of recognition in the top 20. 20-25 - perhaps. Wins over the PL are not good enough anymore.

Thanks for the red chicklet too by the way. I'll continue to voice my opinion on the overinflation of the Ivy and PL teams in every single poll and ranking that comes out.

You've yet to explain to anyone why the Ivy's deserve to be ranked in the top 20. In fact, I'm waiting for anyone, not just you, to explain it to me.


Why are wins over the Patriot League no good anymore? It's not like the PL is in the dump of the FCS spectrum. Especially when they are beating the champion(s) of the league?

I think we'll have a better idea of what the Ivy League brings as they continue to schedule more games outside of their typical reach. If they win those games, it will lend even more credibility.

Ivy League in GPI - Harvard #15 was higher than the top teams in the Big South, Patriot, Pioneer, SWAC, MEAC, Southland and NEC. In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32) was higher than the NEC, Pioneer and SWAC). They have four Ivy teams before the second NEC,

The problem with your whole Ivy vs NEC debate is that the NEC is so weak at the bottom. The league has a few too many bottom-feeders and the teams at the top have yet to show their stripes as consistent players in the top 25.

The Ivy - they have consistently had multiple teams in the top 25, 30 of the GPI.

You guys have room to grow...


Or beat a CAA team? In fact when was the last time the Ivy beat any noteworthy team OOC except a PL team? Not in 07 or 08.


And I hate to continue to what looks like piling on the Ivy's because I really do think that the top of the Ivy is good. I think its a very similar level as the top of the NEC. But that's not how people view them.


How do the 'mystique and tradition' from thirty or ninety years ago relate to the top ten of 2009?

Other than "Well, we've always had them in the top ten before" ?

Mystique and tradition may hold interest or headlines, but don't do much on the field.

xpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornx

[Ivytalk]

Facilities, tradition, mystique, schedule, makes Harvard and Yale viable top ten. The Ivy League teams have the money to recruit, etc. But no athletic scholarships!


Charlie-- that is the most ludicrious statement I have heard in years in FCS.

Hey, the Dutch once ruled the seas...so I guess they are still a world power.

YAWN.

xlolxxlolx

But what about the Danes? Were they ever a world power?:p

And, hey, conquering Greenland in the days of Eric the Red doesn't mean anything!:D

[scotte303]

In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32)

[Dane96]

xlolxxlolx

But what about the Danes? Were they ever a world power?:p

And, hey, conquering Greenland in the days of Eric the Red doesn't mean anything!:D

Eric the Red was around in the 1400's? :D

[Ivytalk]

Eric the Red was around in the 1400's? :D

It's called exaggeration for effect!:p

[grizband]

Facilities, tradition, mystique, schedule, makes Harvard and Yale viable top ten. The Ivy League teams have the money to recruit, etc. But no athletic scholarships!
Others have touched on why facilities, tradition and mystique have no bearing on poll rankings, but this has to be a joke? The schedules of Ivy League teams should warrant their place atop an FCS poll? xeyebrowx

[wideright82]

It's called exaggeration for effect!:p



I enjoyed your reference, IT. Don't let these Danes fans bother you. They get touchy about not being very goodxbawlingxxlolxxlolxxsmiley_wix

[scotte303]

I would like to say Harvard had a great year with a great QB who is now in the NFL if I am not mistaken. Now that being said.
In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32) tied with Harvard for the Ivy championship if I am not mistaken. However URI licked Brown real good.
Maybe URI should be ranked. :)

[danefan]

I would like to say Harvard had a great year with a great QB who is now in the NFL if I am not mistaken. Now that being said.
In fact, the #2 team last year (Brown, #32) tied with Harvard for the Ivy championship if I am not mistaken. However URI licked Brown real good.
Maybe URI should be ranked. :)


Right......Brown got whooped by the same URI squad to lost to Hofstra.......perhaps voters should take a look at who Hofstra lost to last year. xwhistlex