Georgetown 2009: Who Got In?

[DFW HOYA]

While Carney still waits for an official recruits list (probably another month or so away), some notes on the 18% of applicants who did get in:

"1,117 applicants scored 800 on the critical reading portion of the SAT (Georgetown accepted 532 of these applicants); 892 scored 800 on the math portion of the SAT (Georgetown accepted 388); 137 applicants scored 1600 on the SAT (Georgetown accepted 92); 2,280 applicants are the valedictorian of their class (Georgetown accepted 1,306); and 13,240 students who applied are in the top 10 percent of their class (Georgetown accepted 3,135)."

And there's 25 of so football players on that list somewhere. Congratulations and Go Hoyas.

http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2009/04/02/who-got-accepted-to-georgetown-university-in-2009/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Congrats! xthumbsupx It's what it's really all about.

[coover]

Sigh ... I guess I wouldn't have been successful in getting into Georgetown ... and I was valedictorian of my High School class, but my SATs were only 732 Math and 721 English.

Oh well, Cal Poly did a pretty good job in preparing me for the world ... and that is all I could ask.

[65 Pard]

The distinction between scholar-athlete and athlete-scholar is an important one.....
College athletics: sport or business?.......started out as the former, now a charade in far too many institutions.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Sigh ... I guess I wouldn't have been successful in getting into Georgetown ... and I was valedictorian of my High School class, but my SATs were only 732 Math and 721 English.

Oh well, Cal Poly did a pretty good job in preparing me for the world ... and that is all I could ask.

The SAT scoring system is different now, a 1600 is about a 1400 when i was in HS. The SAT in general, is a dumb test. It should only count for a small percentage of what schools look at in a potential student.

[Franks Tanks]

The SAT scoring system is different now, a 1600 is about a 1400 when i was in HS. The SAT in general, is a dumb test. It should only count for a small percentage of what schools look at in a potential student.

SAT Scores are through the roof. I know the test has added a writing section and is now on a 2400 point scale but something is up.

A decade ago when I was applying to colleges my SAT score was very solid for all PL schools, Army and Navy, and enough to at least get a sniff at the Ivies (my class rank and GPA was solid but not where it needed to be)

If you take my same scores and apply them to today I wouldnt get into Penn State!

SAT scores at PL schools have gone up a ton in the last decade, but that doesnt happen in a vacumm and everybody else's scores went up too.

It seems like today every kid has a high GPA (grade inflation and AP classes that are weighted) and a high SAT (test prep classes). The scores are outrageous and you have to questions how impactful it still is.

[Scumdog0331]

SAT Scores are through the roof. I know the test has added a writing section and is now on a 2400 point scale but something is up.

A decade ago when I was applying to colleges my SAT score was very solid for all PL schools, Army and Navy, and enough to at least get a sniff at the Ivies (my class rank and GPA was solid but not where it needed to be)

If you take my same scores and apply them to today I wouldnt get into Penn State!

SAT scores at PL schools have gone up a ton in the last decade, but that doesnt happen in a vacumm and everybody else's scores went up too.

It seems like today every kid has a high GPA (grade inflation and AP classes that are weighted) and a high SAT (test prep classes). The scores are outrageous and you have to questions how impactful it still is.

Two reasons for this:

1) Wealthier Parents are paying for more and more SAT Prep courses.

2) Wealthier Parents are finding doctors to diagnose their children with "learning disabilities," and those that are diagnosed get more time to complete the test.

This is why so many schools are going "SAT optional"

(/only got into Dartmouth because I'm a GWOT Vet)
(//bitter)
xmadx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

SAT Scores are through the roof. I know the test has added a writing section and is now on a 2400 point scale but something is up.

A decade ago when I was applying to colleges my SAT score was very solid for all PL schools, Army and Navy, and enough to at least get a sniff at the Ivies (my class rank and GPA was solid but not where it needed to be)

If you take my same scores and apply them to today I wouldnt get into Penn State!

SAT scores at PL schools have gone up a ton in the last decade, but that doesnt happen in a vacumm and everybody else's scores went up too.

It seems like today every kid has a high GPA (grade inflation and AP classes that are weighted) and a high SAT (test prep classes). The scores are outrageous and you have to questions how impactful it still is.

I was somewhat the opposite of you, very good GPA, solid class rankd but a very average SAT. I went to a very good high school so my grades were legit. Before my SAT scores were written in stone i was looking at Bucknell, Lehigh, Michigan and UVA. After i settled on my score i ended up with Temple, Pitt, Syracuse and Penn State along with a few safety schools. I did get in to Lehigh as a transfer after my 3rd semester at Temple.

The scores and competition anymore is rediculous. When i was in high school if you had a good GPA and class rank and scored a 1200+ on your SAT you were going to a darn good school. Now, you probably need that to get in to some of the better PSAC schools.

[Franks Tanks]

I was somewhat the opposite of you, very good GPA, solid class rankd but a very average SAT. I went to a very good high school so my grades were legit. Before my SAT scores were written in stone i was looking at Bucknell, Lehigh, Michigan and UVA. After i settled on my score i ended up with Temple, Pitt, Syracuse and Penn State along with a few safety schools. I did get in to Lehigh as a transfer after my 3rd semester at Temple.

The scores and competition anymore is rediculous. When i was in high school if you had a good GPA and class rank and scored a 1200+ on your SAT you were going to a darn good school. Now, you probably need that to get in to some of the better PSAC schools.

Its crazy. I had a friend get into MIT in 1997 and he never really thought about it. He didnt take SAT prep classes or spend every waking moment since he was 14 trying to build up his resume to get in. He was just a normal kid that played 3 sports and did well in school and on his SAT's.

Today kids hire "college counselors" and start prepping for top schools in junior high. Every class and activity they partcipate in are geared toward getting into a school like MIT. They prep for the SAT's for two years with a private tutor and spend weeks on their application essay's. These kids have GPA's over 4 and near perfect scores on their SAT's yet still dont get in! I think of my high school friend playing football, basketball, or baseball every day and walking around with a huge dip. He was no genius, just a very smart well rounded kid.

It is amazing how much the process has changed since I went through it.

[andy7171]

My SAT score saved my crappy GPA. Actually thank god for Coach Brouse going to bat for me at Towson.

[Franks Tanks]

I was somewhat the opposite of you, very good GPA, solid class rankd but a very average SAT. I went to a very good high school so my grades were legit. Before my SAT scores were written in stone i was looking at Bucknell, Lehigh, Michigan and UVA. After i settled on my score i ended up with Temple, Pitt, Syracuse and Penn State along with a few safety schools. I did get in to Lehigh as a transfer after my 3rd semester at Temple.

The scores and competition anymore is rediculous. When i was in high school if you had a good GPA and class rank and scored a 1200+ on your SAT you were going to a darn good school. Now, you probably need that to get in to some of the better PSAC schools.

PSAC schools are seeing there stats go up as well. They should see a big increase this year because of the economy. Many kids will go to a PSAC schools instead of a Wilkes or Kings I believe.

[Redwyn]

It blows my mind really to see the continued emphasis on an exam that has time and time again been proven to be a poor judge of a student's university potential. That being said Georgetown is quite competitive. When I ran the cycle it was considered about as difficult to get into Columbia and Brown as it was to get into Georgetown.

That being said, it looks like, at least on Long Island, that there is someee flexibility amongst competitive schools dealing with SAT score. A good look at extra curricular and non-academic involvement is what I think ultimately led to some Ivy acceptances despite not having perfect SAT scores. At the end of the day though, the major issue is academic and extra curricular accessibility. Not every school has a lot of the AP, IB, and extra options that some schools provide. However, they do have the SAT. Thus, it's still used as a major indicator, for better or worse I guess.

Overall though, the fact is a good student at any school is just the same as a good student at Harvard, or Georgetown, or anywhere else. It's about wanting to achieve your goals. Usually if you have the will, there is a way.

About the SAT scores, I think Scumdog is about right with his SAT analysis. There was a revision a decade or so back while the exam was still out of 1600 that made getting a higher score significantly easier. I'd have to look it up to tell you exactly what that change was though.

[Scumdog0331]

I think of my high school friend playing football, basketball, or baseball every day and walking around with a huge dip. He was no genius, just a very smart well rounded kid.

It used to be that sports was a very respected extra-curricular activity. But now, the intellectual elitists that run a lot of admission's departments don't like sports. (see: Dartmouth).

I have a friend here that was a Sophomore starter on his (very bad) H.S. Basketball team, but he quit when his "college counselor" (It's actually his mom, and that is what she does for a job) informed him that basketball was a waste of time, so he quit to teach after-school programs in the inner city and become the student-body president at his school. He maintains it was one of the worst decisions he ever made, but he was under A LOT of pressure, since it wouldn't look good for his mom if he couldn't get into an Ivy League school.

[Franks Tanks]

It used to be that sports was a very respected extra-curricular activity. But now, the intellectual elitists that run a lot of admission's departments don't like sports. (see: Dartmouth).

I have a friend here that was a Sophomore starter on his (very bad) H.S. Basketball team, but he quit when his "college counselor" (It's actually his mom, and that is what she does for a job) informed him that basketball was a waste of time, so he quit to teach after-school programs in the inner city and become the student-body president at his school. He maintains it was one of the worst decisions he ever made, but he was under A LOT of pressure, since it wouldn't look good for his mom if he couldn't get into an Ivy League school.

Great anecdote and that is precisely what I was referring too.

The poor kid has to make every decision based on making him more marketable for college.

The situation is such that these kids have great activities, but the motives to get invloved in these activites are self-serving. Ya the kid tutored inner city kids but he didnt do it because he intrinsically wanted to-- his mom made him so he could increase his chances. Poor kid.

[Scumdog0331]

Also, it creates a culture that views volunteerism as a stepping stone, and once you achieve your goals there is no reason to volunteer anymore.

At Dartmouth, our students that are most involved in volunteerism are actually the athletes, while most of the other students, despite exemplary records of involvement before Dartmouth, just play a lot of beer pong.

http://dartmouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=48800&SPID=4705&DB_OEM_ID=11600&ATCLID=3672452

[Redwyn]

Also, it creates a culture that views volunteerism as a stepping stone, and once you achieve your goals there is no reason to volunteer anymore.

At Dartmouth, our students that are most involved in volunteerism are actually the athletes, while most of the other students, despite exemplary records of involvement before Dartmouth, just play a lot of beer pong.

http://dartmouthsports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=48800&SPID=4705&DB_OEM_ID=11600&ATCLID=3672452

Yeahh, the perfect example of this can be seen in pretty much any Long Island high school. Students are actually told to do community service or research for a while, then IMMEDIATELY drop it the day their applications go in. January is a dark time for senior citizen homes on Long Island (all the volunteers quit). It's a pity students can't be themselves and still have a shot at these places, but I guess the Ivy League wouldn't be the Ivy League without these things.

[LehighFan11]

SAT is terrible. Colleges rely way too much on SATs and GPAs when admitting students. I love the kids that have 3.8s+ but went to a terrible school district and get accepted to great schools. My GPA looked bad because of my school district and my SAT and ACT test scores were average. However, Lehigh was smart and decided to look past the numbers and look at my recommendations and the school district I came from (East Penn). It didn't hurt that I am a legacy, but Lehigh won't regret their decision.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

SAT is terrible. Colleges rely way too much on SATs and GPAs when admitting students. I love the kids that have 3.8s+ but went to a terrible school district and get accepted to great schools. My GPA looked bad because of my school district and my SAT and ACT test scores were average. However, Lehigh was smart and decided to look past the numbers and look at my recommendations and the school district I came from (East Penn). It didn't hurt that I am a legacy, but Lehigh won't regret their decision.


My class rank was somewhat misleading as well. Had i gone to most high schools i would have been in the top 10-15%, as it was i was barely in the top 33%. I'm sure the top 40-50 kids could have got in to every PL school excluding Georgetown at the time. My graduating class at Abington Heights was about 280.

I was a legacy at Lehigh too and would have been accepted out of high school but i never applied if you can believe that. I felt there was a little pressure to go there so i didn't come around to the idea until i spent a year in school. Temple was going through some administrative issues and the housing situation was a mess the first couple of years so i seriously considered leaving. However, i was able to find some roommates to get an appt with and the increase in debt didn't seem worth it. Both schools business programs are very good.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown probably focuses more on grades than SATs, which is why you see a lot of people with 800's on the tests not getting in. A four hour test should not take precedence over four years in high school.

[Scumdog0331]

Here's something to think about...Class Rank accounts for 1/3 of the AI, which makes recruiting even more difficult because it limits the number of "10-30%" people you can recruit at difficult schools that would be top 10% at easier schools. (test scores is the other 2/3)

[Redwyn]

Georgetown probably focuses more on grades than SATs, which is why you see a lot of people with 800's on the tests not getting in. A four hour test should not take precedence over four years in high school.

Good for Georgetown!! It's the way it should be.

[I-AA Fan]

Sigh ... I guess I wouldn't have been successful in getting into Georgetown ... and I was valedictorian of my High School class, but my SATs were only 732 Math and 721 English.

Oh well, Cal Poly did a pretty good job in preparing me for the world ... and that is all I could ask.

No you would not have gotten in ...your dad is not in congress and you did not make first-team all-Indiana or all-Kentucky in basketball. xthumbsupx

[HoyaMetanoia]

I have to believe that either the 1600 CR+M kids that weren't "accepted" were instead wait listed because they were presumably going to go to an Ivy or had writing section scores that were far behind their Critical Reading and Math scores (Georgetown says they don't consider the writing portion, but it's there on paper with the other two).

I can't imagine any other reason. I know you could say that they could have a low GPA, but it's tough to get rejected with those test scores unless your GPA is very low, and its hard to test that well and have a very low GPA.

[DFW HOYA]

I have to believe that either the 1600 CR+M kids that weren't "accepted" were instead wait listed because they were presumably going to go to an Ivy or had writing section scores that were far behind their Critical Reading and Math scores (Georgetown says they don't consider the writing portion, but it's there on paper with the other two).

Some were probably wait listed but Georgetown does not carry a very large wait list compared to other schools.

Georgetown does not use the writing portion because there is a personal essay required which is reviewed separately. As such, Georgetown does not accept the Common Application, which is probably why a number of schools have significantly more applications than it does.

[Redwyn]

It's easy to turn down a 1600 because the SAT has been proven to be teachable. The material on the exam is no greater than an 8th grade math level and 10th grade vocabulary. The difficulty the test presents is in the endurance feat it represents. Just like with athletics, the endurance issue can be overcome with test prep courses and sheer repetition of practice exams. It's why time and time again the SAT has been proven to be a poor link between score and potential of collegiate success.

Thus, if a student with a B average and a 1600 applies to Georgetown, there's just as little chance of an acceptance as a 4.0 with a 1200 combined. You need a good, balanced set of high scores and good GPA. A Yale admissions officer I'm close with said he'd always accept the 1450 with a strong GPA (not necessarily a 4.0) and extracurrics than a 1600 and few other strengths.

[98hoya]

It's easy to turn down a 1600 because the SAT has been proven to be teachable.

Really?

How many schools do you think turn down 1600 SAT scorers? Schools are driven - for better or worse - by US News rankings. Those rankings specifically included SAT range of acceptees. Find me a school that wouldn't like to pad that with a point or two and I'll be shocked.

[Big Al]

Honestly, I think the stuff you guys are referring to are only happening among the wealthy and (to a lesser extent) East Coast residents.

There are a lot of great colleges in the midwest and the west who would do just as well at educating and preparing kids for a career and don't require all the BS needed to get admitted to the Ivies and other "elite" colleges.

[HoyaMetanoia]

It's easy to turn down a 1600 because the SAT has been proven to be teachable. The material on the exam is no greater than an 8th grade math level and 10th grade vocabulary. The difficulty the test presents is in the endurance feat it represents. Just like with athletics, the endurance issue can be overcome with test prep courses and sheer repetition of practice exams. It's why time and time again the SAT has been proven to be a poor link between score and potential of collegiate success.

Thus, if a student with a B average and a 1600 applies to Georgetown, there's just as little chance of an acceptance as a 4.0 with a 1200 combined. You need a good, balanced set of high scores and good GPA. A Yale admissions officer I'm close with said he'd always accept the 1450 with a strong GPA (not necessarily a 4.0) and extracurrics than a 1600 and few other strengths.

Do you really believe that? There are approximately 2500 kids in the country every year who get a perfect score on the SAT. There are probably tens or even hundreds of thousands who have a 4.0 and a 1200 or better

[Franks Tanks]

Honestly, I think the stuff you guys are referring to are only happening among the wealthy and (to a lesser extent) East Coast residents.

There are a lot of great colleges in the midwest and the west who would do just as well at educating and preparing kids for a career and don't require all the BS needed to get admitted to the Ivies and other "elite" colleges.


That is no longer true. Students admitted to the Ivies and other elite colleges come from all over the country and have all types of economic backgrounds. The old money still permeates a bit, but its not like it used to be.

I read a artcile recently that noted the reason why Ivies and like schools are so competitive is that these schools are no longer Just an infatuation of the rich and Northeasterners. There was a time when certain schools attracted students fro certain areas-- i.e Princeton was known as the school for the Southern Elites. That is no longer the case as kids from everywhere (rich and poor) now apply to Princeton as they can afford it given tremendous financial aid.

Also I agree a student can prepare themselves at virtually any school, but for certain careers attending an elite college is highly advantageous.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

That is no longer true. Students admitted to the Ivies and other elite colleges come from all over the country and have all types of economic backgrounds. The old money still permeates a bit, but its not like it used to be.

I read a artcile recently that noted the reason why Ivies and like schools are so competitive is that these schools are no longer Just an infatuation of the rich and Northeasterners. There was a time when certain schools attracted students fro certain areas-- i.e Princeton was known as the school for the Southern Elites. That is no longer the case as kids from everywhere (rich and poor) now apply to Princeton as they can afford it given tremendous financial aid.

Also I agree a student can prepare themselves at virtually any school, but for certain careers attending an elite college is highly advantageous.

I think that generous financial aid is a huge driver of this. If you're making six figures and your son or daughter is close, you're likely to say "What the heck?" and apply. With increased competition for slots, it's more cutthroat than ever.

While the financial aid isn't as generous as H-Y-P, Georgetown and the Patriot League schools benefit from this, too the same way, say, Dartmouth, Cornell and Columbia do: kids that apply to H-Y-P generally also apply to Dartmouth, Lehigh, Holy Cross as well.

Of course, add football scholarships to this mix, and you'll be able to get better players with better academics, too.

[DFW HOYA]

Of course, add football scholarships to this mix, and you'll be able to get better players with better academics, too.

I'm not sold better academics would follow, nor markedly better players. As long as the PL holds to the AI, it will still attract the same level of talent but the recruits will be less likely to turn down the offer over finances.

[RichH2]

Not true. experience at LU with wrestling and basketball has shown better athletes and students almost w/o exception. A few glitches with men's bball. but everyone graduates.
Schollies allow us to compete more evenly with FBS, IL and FCS scholarship schools. Markedly improves access to kids who we could only offer partial aid. In today's climate with parents forced to consider state schools because of cost , a scholarship to PL school can win the day .

A few yrs back we lost a kid to a partial scholarship at a State school because his need wasn't enuf to cover cost forhis folks.

[Redwyn]

Do you really believe that? There are approximately 2500 kids in the country every year who get a perfect score on the SAT. There are probably tens or even hundreds of thousands who have a 4.0 and a 1200 or better

I absolutely believe that, and as a Kaplan SAT teacher have seen it first hand. Long Island high schools are notorious for producing poor students with perfect SAT scores, mostly because their parents have had them tutored 7 days a week for months on end before the exams. I myself did not break 1500 on the SAT, but got Ivy League offers over far stronger scores (only a pity they charge 50+ thousand a year to attend). The SAT used to have quite a strong position amongst Universities, but in the past few decades - even with US News watching - the test has depreciated in value. From court cases to conferences, the validity of the test has been brought up and the questions surrounding it have not been answered. The reason is simply that the SAT does not in any way predict a student's success in college, as it is proven that the test can be taught. Several of my students had scores jump over 300 points between my prep course and their second taking. This is the difference between a 1200 and a 1500, between the average accepted score at Stony Brook and the average accepted score at Yale. What officer in his right mind would ignore GPA if this is possible? An equal part of the US News ranking is student graduation rate (sometimes called retention when grouped with transfers). Thus, by judging by SAT grade alone, these B students with 1600's (and there are PLENTY, trust me), would attend these extremely competitive schools, bomb out in one year, and ruin the school's ranking anyway.

This might help elaborate a bit more:
http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/Americas/May-June-08/More-Colleges-Say-the-SAT--Doesn-t-Pass-the-Test.html

While I do believe the coasts take standardized tests far more seriously (take the NY Regents and Cal CAT as an example of these two state's commitments to standardized testing), it is absolutely right to state that the Midwest is becoming far more competitive in and of itself. While there is a gap, this gap is closing rapidly.

Don't get me wrong. This is no statement against the offering of the SAT. For all its flaws and benefits we must remember it's ONE test, and honestly there isn't a better one at the moment. However, it is merely an assertion that this exam is NOT used in its totality to determine college aptitude, and it's a lesson many students learn the hard way through admissions.

[LBPop]

Not true. experience at LU with wrestling and basketball has shown better athletes and students almost w/o exception. A few glitches with men's bball. but everyone graduates.
Schollies allow us to compete more evenly with FBS, IL and FCS scholarship schools. Markedly improves access to kids who we could only offer partial aid. In today's climate with parents forced to consider state schools because of cost , a scholarship to PL school can win the day .

A few yrs back we lost a kid to a partial scholarship at a State school because his need wasn't enuf to cover cost forhis folks.

I understand that this was the experience at LU, but I'm not sure I see the causal relationship. If the AI is the same and if scholarships are being offered based on talent alone, the only explanation for a direct cause would be a direct relationship between football talent and the quality of a student or a direct relationship between the ability to afford a high cost school and the quality of the student.

Yes, I'm sure that LU lost that kid to a state school because of money. But there's no reason to assume that he was a better student than the kids who could afford LU. Conversely, I wonder how many good students you would lose because they weren't good enough players to warrant a scholarship, but who could have attended with some partial need based help.

I'll bet there are examples of all of these, but I really do not see a cause/effect situation here.

[Uncle Buck]

Three points:

1. SAT has been changing since the test began. Concepts as well as scoring have changed dramatically

2. Students in todays society are an inch deep and a mile wide. None of them are passionate about one thing to stick with it. They all believe they have to take part in everything.

3. Private college counselors suck, even if it is your mom. Most of them never worked as a school counselor and they give crap advice.

***Disclaimer - I worked as a school counselor for 10 years and spent the last two as a director of guidance for the district i am in on Long Island. I don't like the BS private college counselors who steal money.

[Big Al]

The best indicator of college success, more so than grades, class rank or ACT/SAT composite score, is how you perform on the written portion of the ACT/SATs. That's why those test prep classes are almost meaningless.

[Uncle Buck]

Big Al, they're not pointless. Unfortunately, they play a huge part in admissions even if it isn't the best indicator. Only in the past few years have colleges actually started using the writing portion as part of their assessment. In fact, a lot of them still weigh the CR and Math more than writing.

The whole college admissions thing is a scam. We had a great rep from Boston College recently speak to our junior class and he said that they will turn down thousands of students who could have easily done the work. It's a cruel game college admissions.

[Redwyn]

Three points:

1. SAT has been changing since the test began. Concepts as well as scoring have changed dramatically

2. Students in todays society are an inch deep and a mile wide. None of them are passionate about one thing to stick with it. They all believe they have to take part in everything.

3. Private college counselors suck, even if it is your mom. Most of them never worked as a school counselor and they give crap advice.

***Disclaimer - I worked as a school counselor for 10 years and spent the last two as a director of guidance for the district i am in on Long Island. I don't like the BS private college counselors who steal money.

Amen to everything you just said, esp from your perspective. It's almost nonsensical to talk about admissions because of how competitive application processes are at the top academic programs.

[Big Al]

Big Al, they're not pointless. Unfortunately, they play a huge part in admissions even if it isn't the best indicator.

Yeah, they're aren't pointless but they are meaningless -- if you get my distinction.


The whole college admissions thing is a scam. We had a great rep from Boston College recently speak to our junior class and he said that they will turn down thousands of students who could have easily done the work. It's a cruel game college admissions.

Don't get me started. I am firmly of the belief that the Ivies' reputation is way overblown. You should start guiding some of your kids to the midwest -- there are a ton of great, private liberal arts colleges in Iowa, Minnesota & Wisconsin. They'll get an education that is on par with East Coast universities for less money and have a much better student/teacher ratio, to boot.

College isn't where you go but rather what you make of it.

[Uncle Buck]

Big Al, i totally here what you're saying. As for our kids going to the midwest, we do have some but i'll tell you that it's definitely not the norm. Most end up somewhere on the east coast or way out to the west coast.

Parents out here are typically blinded by the name of a college and if they haven't heard of it, no matter how strong it is academically, they don't bother to look.

[JMU Newbill]

Just out of curiousity... who's schools total applications were up/down significantly? I read an article in the JMU paper today about how many more applicants they had this year. They credited some of it to their growing reputation, but also credited a lot of it to the economy (more people applying in-state, less to out-of-state and/or private schools).

Just wondering if somewhere like Georgetown felt the effects of this?

[Franks Tanks]

Just out of curiousity... who's schools total applications were up/down significantly? I read an article in the JMU paper today about how many more applicants they had this year. They credited some of it to their growing reputation, but also credited a lot of it to the economy (more people applying in-state, less to out-of-state and/or private schools).

Just wondering if somewhere like Georgetown felt the effects of this?

Most schools havent yet released their admission stats but it will be interesting to see how it shakes out. The hardest hit will be private schools that give medicore financial aid.

It wil also be interested to see the breakdown of in state/ out of state applicants for state schools.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Just out of curiousity... who's schools total applications were up/down significantly? I read an article in the JMU paper today about how many more applicants they had this year. They credited some of it to their growing reputation, but also credited a lot of it to the economy (more people applying in-state, less to out-of-state and/or private schools).

Just wondering if somewhere like Georgetown felt the effects of this?

Georgetown's applications were down, but only slightly. Applications were up to every part of the school, except the business school, which saw a significant drop in applications (I would assume this has something to do with the shrinking iBanking and finance industry).

However, places like Harvard received more apps than ever before this year. I don't think that the number of applications is going to demonstrate the financial crisis, but rather the yield of each school due to shrinking endowments and, in turn, the ability to give financial aid. A number of kids are going to get into these elite private schools, and then get their financial aid back, and see that they just can't afford it.

I suspect Georgetown will suffer from this because not only does Georgetown have one of the smallest endowments of any USNWR Top 25 school (part of the reason it's ranked lower than most would expect), but the school has always been very stingy on the grant portion of financial aid.