Armanti or Tracy Ham

[Hoyadestroya85]

This should hopefully ignite some fire.. I'm bored and i kinda wanna hear some people's opinions about the two greatest running QB's I-AA/FCS has had

[AshevilleApp2]

I went with the homer vote. But you can't go wrong with either. It's been a while since Hamm played, but he may have been a little better runner. I think AE gets the edge as a passer.

[eaglewraith]

Tracy Ham

Became the first QB to rush for 3000 and pass for 5000, and I don't think that includes playoff stats so it should probably be more.

He also was on a team full of walk ons and took a team to its first National Championship in only its second year at this level of competition. Not to say we didn't have a quality team then, but the team that Armanti started on his first 3 years is a big difference compared to the team that Ham started on his first 3 years.

I think I would actually give the nod to Armanti as being faster. Ham wasn't a burner by any stretch, but he could take off downfield when needed and he was QUICK. He was also pretty much perfect at making the correct read and had a cannon to get it downfield.

Might seem like a homer pick, but I truly believe Ham was the QB of the future before anyone ever even thought of using a dual threat QB....especially in a system that utilized that talent.

[AshevilleApp2]

Tracy Ham

Became the first QB to rush for 3000 and pass for 5000, and I don't think that includes playoff stats so it should probably be more.

He also was on a team full of walk ons and took a team to its first National Championship in only its second year at this level of competition. Not to say we didn't have a quality team then, but the team that Armanti started on his first 3 years is a big difference compared to the team that Ham started on his first 3 years.

I think I would actually give the nod to Armanti as being faster. Ham wasn't a burner by any stretch, but he could take off downfield when needed and he was QUICK. He was also pretty much perfect at making the correct read and had a cannon to get it downfield.

Might seem like a homer pick, but I truly believe Ham was the QB of the future before anyone ever even thought of using a dual threat QB....especially in a system that utilized that talent.

I didn't realize GSU had such a good passing game then. Good post.

[eaglewraith]

I didn't realize GSU had such a good passing game then. Good post.

The Flexbone package as originally developed had a lot of run and gun plays in it, and why not when you have a qb with a rocket arm? In the 85 championship game alone Ham had over 400 yards passing.

After PJ left to be offensive coordinator at Hawaii, he still was calling plays to sling it all over the field. One of his QB's at Hawaii still stands at #3 on the school's all time passing list behind Colt Brennan and Tommy Chang...and that's only because they completely ignored the running game under June Jones.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I think it's interesting to compare guys across era's like this.. there is no doubt regardless of the side that both of these guys are two of the greatest and ultimate "steals"

[Hoyadestroya85]

The Flexbone package as originally developed had a lot of run and gun plays in it, and why not when you have a qb with a rocket arm? In the 85 championship game alone Ham had over 400 yards passing.

After PJ left to be offensive coordinator at Hawaii, he still was calling plays to sling it all over the field. One of his QB's at Hawaii still stands at #3 on the school's all time passing list behind Colt Brennan and Tommy Chang...and that's only because they completely ignored the running game under June Jones.

if you have a quarterback who can throw as well as run, the flexbone is a nearly undefendable scheme because once you get the triple option working, the option pass just becomes absolutely deadly. I have a lot of respect for what PJ has done and I truly think he is one of the best offensive minds in the game period.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Hard to compare guys in two different offenses.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Hard to compare guys in two different offenses.

the principles are quite similar though, both are option based spread type offenses..

[DLS]

i would to list each players' accomplishments against each and then decide.

never saw hamm play so it would purely be based on stats and accomplishments

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

the principles are quite similar though, both are option based spread type offenses..

Maybe, but I know for instance if you were comparing Jayson Foster and Armanti Edwards I would say I'd rather have Foster for the triple option and AE for the type of spread offense Appy runs ... not really a hard decision to make in either case. It's hard for me to decide with Ham because I haven't seen as much of him as I have of Foster and Edwards (too young to have seen him play in person).

[GATA]

that's a really good question.

I would give Tracy Ham a SLIGHT edge just because he seemed to be so ahead of his time being a "dual threat" QB.

However, Armanti Edwards is the same kind of special player that Vince Young was a Texas. the kid can basically win games by himself if he's healthy and is liable to pass for 200 and run for 200 in just about any game.

i can honestly say that AE is already a college football hall of famer though. His resume speaks for itself...and He's still got another year...Jesus Christ...I'll be glad when he's gone.

[Hoyadestroya85]

I bet Barry Switzer was kicking his own ass when he saw Tracy Ham dominating.. You could make the argument that Ham was the third best option QB ever behind the two nebraska guys..

[OL FU]

I realize some people don't like these comments. GSU had talented teams back in the day but Hamm is as close to being "the team" as any player I have seen. I don't think they would have been as close to the top level without Hamm. ASU would not have been as good either but they still would have been playoff bound with at least a shot at the title.

Example, 85 champ game furman shut down the TO in the first half. Second half, Hamm after averaging 8 passes a game in the season throws for 300 or 400 yards and that was usually after scrambling for his life.

It may be an over statement, but take Hamm out of that game and Furman wins it walking awayxnodx Hamm in, Georgia Southern wins the NC. xnodx

[GaSouthern]

You gotta be better than Foster before you can even think about competing with Ham

;)

[eaglewithabus]

Very interesting poll.....I had to go with Hamm, however, I would love to have AE on my team any day. Bad thing is, AE was recruited heavily by Seawak and GSU had a great shot of signing him until VG came in after Sewaks fire and screwed everything up.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Who wouldn't take either of these guys?

[GaSouthern]

There was once an AWESOME video on youtube about tracy ham, no idea where it went off to

[blueballs]

This is a Ham highlight reel of the 1985 season... Ham is #8 for Georgia Southern. There is footage from win over #1 MTSU, #2 UNI, and the championship game over Furman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MujKdFsMhh8

[Rekdiver]

They are equally good. Sorry to ride the fence by there's not been anyone as good as these two.... Tossup.

[Maverick]

As mentioned earlier, what was the level of talent surrounding each of these players? That would be a big factor in my selection since stats alone would be a function of that factor. Kinda like the "a great coach can beat with his team and then turn around and beat with your team" concept in determining coaching ability. Sort of like saying he was successful in spite of the talent around him rather than because of the talent around him.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's probably best to wait for Armanti to finish his college career to make these comparisons.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

As mentioned earlier, what was the level of talent surrounding each of these players? That would be a big factor in my selection since stats alone would be a function of that factor. Kinda like the "a great coach can beat with his team and then turn around and beat with your team" concept in determining coaching ability. Sort of like saying he was successful in spite of the talent around him rather than because of the talent around him.

I think AE had the advantage talent-wise, and there is no question in my mind there. In the early/mid 80s we weren't exactly an established DI power and we weren't getting top-notch talent.

On the other hand, to be fair, Ham may have had the advantage as far as coaching goes. I mean no disrespect to Moore and his staff and what they have accomplished over the last four years, but it is kind of hard to compete with a staff that has Erk Russell and Paul Johnson. Erk was the legendary motivator who had a 15-0 season three years removed from Johnson's last year as an offensive coordinator. PJ is the offensive wizard who won a pair of championships a decade removed from Erk's last season. GSU is not only the only school with two different Eddie Robinson award winners, but they also had both of those men on the same staff. You put those two together and you can practically work football miracles. And that's pretty much what they did for GSC. You can call me a homer, but I happen to think that the coaching staff we had during Tracy Ham's days was one of the best (if not the best) in the history of college football.

[OL FU]

This is a Ham highlight reel of the 1985 season... Ham is #8 for Georgia Southern. There is footage from win over #1 MTSU, #2 UNI, and the championship game over Furman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MujKdFsMhh8

I'll pass:p




Or maybe I should say, I occasionally, although less frequently as time goes by, see a re-run in my head:(

[GaSouthern]

How is this vote even close?

[Reign of Terrier]

I wasn't born yet....xoopsx

[Gil Dobie]

This westerner that has seen both play on the tely, votes Tracy Ham

[Touchdown Yosef]

I'm trying to compile some stats real quick to compare the 2 and the third page down on my google search is this thread. Not as easy to find the stats on Ham.

[da_Bison]

You gotta be better than Foster before you can even think about competing with Ham

;)


You got that right!!!

[bobbythekidd]

I think AE had the advantage talent-wise.
Understatement of the decade.

I would still love to have AE on my team. I guess we are discussing who is coaching them and what scheme they are running. Two different schemes and two different QBs. A better question is " who would you want in 1985 and who would you want in 2009?

[Touchdown Yosef]

Ham

College Highlights:
- Led Georgia Southern to two Division I-AA championships (1985, 1986).
- The only player in college football history to rush for more than 3,000 yards and pass for over 5,000 yards.
- The only QB in I-AA history to rush for at least 1,000 yards in a single season.
- Had 14 100-yard rushing games in his career.
- Still holds over 50 school records.
- Offense re-named "the Ham-Bone" during his tenure.

GSU guys you are going to have to help me out for this one I don't want to spend all night compiling your stats and I'm not real familiar with your website so I'll post this and some on Armanti and you can get back with a statistically relevant rebuttal.


So far for his career AE has passed for 7101 yards and 62 Touchdowns. Rushed for 3,682 and another 46 TD's.

He could realistically for his Career end up with 10k plus passing yards, 4k plus rushing and account for 130+ Touchdowns.

Best game rushing was for 313 yards Passing 433.

2 NC's but you all know that one already. (same as Ham)

another good one AE thew 26 INT's so far for his career.

[Touchdown Yosef]

some good comparisons if someone wants to take the time would be to see who had more 100 and 200 yard rushing games and who had more 200 and 300 yard passing games. Also maybe 3+ TD games passing or rushing.

On a side note I think if Richie Williams had got to play in the same system all 4 years we would be talking about his numbers as well but that is neither here nor there.

[Baldy]

I went with the homer vote. But you can't go wrong with either. It's been a while since Hamm played, but he may have been a little better runner. I think AE gets the edge as a passer.

I believe its the other way around. Ham was a great runner but there is no doubt that Edwards is much faster and a more dangerous runner than Ham was, but on the other hand, Ham's arm was far more potent than Edward's.

[eaglewraith]

I'm still unsure if Ham's stats are including his playoff stats...I don't think they do. In which case, a good many yards and touchdowns are missing, including a 400+ yard passing effort against Furman in the 85 championship game.

Armanti came along after the NCAA decided to allow playoff stats to count, but their infinite wisdom they refused to count them retroactively so the numbers could compare a little differently if you take out his playoff stats.

[elkinftball2002]

you can also add that Armanti has mixed 6 full games due to injuries or just not playing (first 2 games freshmen year) and not to mention several times he has left games early or there is no telling what his stats would look like.

[eaglewraith]

you can also add that Armanti has mixed 6 full games due to injuries or just not playing (first 2 games freshmen year) and not to mention several times he has left games early or there is no telling what his stats would look like.

The difference is that he did NOT play those games, while Ham DID play in games that aren't being counted by the NCAA in stat counting.

I guess it's no contest as to who is more durable ;)

[ASU]

The difference is that he did NOT play those games, while Ham DID play in games that aren't being counted by the NCAA in stat counting.

I guess it's no contest as to who is more durable ;)

I think that Joe Montana was better than both of them.............probably.

I really would hate to say either way which one is best, because it would be like putting the other one down, and neither one deserves anything except our undying gratitude for playing this game that we love so much.

[DLS]

this may come down to the ole debate of "could a player from the past compete with today's players?"

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Ham
- The only QB in I-AA history to rush for at least 1,000 yards in a single season.
.

Actually, one of two...Jayson Foster had 1,844 yards in 2007 xpeacex

[blueballs]

Georgia Southern was a club team until Ham's sophomore year in 1984, and was comprised mostly of walk-ons. The team went 8-3 and was not invited to the playoffs in their first year of eligibility. It is important to remember that GSC was an independent at the time and was very much an "upstart."

In 1985 they went 9-2 with a group still composed of a lot of walk-ons and were seeded what amounted to 8th in the tourney. After dispatching Jackson State in the first round they faced #1 MTSU, who had clobbered GSC at Paulson by 25 earlier in the season, on the road. Ham led the Eagles to a 28-21 win and then a road win at UNI the next week by a 40-33 count. Ask Cap'n Cat and D1B about that game as they both played for UNI. GSC then defeated Furman for the title the next week in what some think is the greatest title game in the history of the division behind Ham's >500 total yards and 5TD's accounted for.

In 1986 GSC rolled through the 1-AA portion of the schedule and only lost to the two 1-A teams (GSC was jobbed at ECU losing by 2) before scoring 203 points (averaging 51 ppg) in the playoffs. In the title game against Ark St Ham threw for 306 and ran for 180. Coach Larry Lacewell of Ark St was quoted after the game when asked about Ham, "You can't tackle smoke."

To me the pertinent question of this thread is could Armanti Edwards have accomplished what Tracy Ham did given the same set of circumstances. Having seen both play to me there is no question Tracy Ham could have accomplished what Edwards has in Edwards' circumstance. I am tempted to say "no" because the miracle that was GSC football hasn't been duplicated and Ham was elected to the College Football HOF because of it. He was the right player, with the right coaches (Erk as HC and PJ as OC), in the right system, at the right time.

Of course we'll never know for sure and it makes for great message board fodder during the off season.

[DLS]

nm

[straightshooter]

These are two great players who any team would love to have. I know we are talking about college stats here, but you have to look at what Ham did in the CFL to get a grip on how good he really was. His pro stats include passing for more than 40,000 yards in his career with 284 TD. More than 8,000 yards rushing and 62 more TD. CFL MVP and Grey Cup Champion QB. He's also in the College Football Hall of Fame.

I'm sure that most of you will agree that these stats have no bearing on this poll, but I thought you might like to have the info on Ham.

It is interesting that Edwards was likely coming to GSU had Sewak remained the coach. That would have been insane - Foster and Edwards on the same field and the same team. Oh well...

[GATA]

I have it on good authority that Armanti Edward's name is one of the 104 remaining names on the MLB "anonymous" steroids list...I'm just saying xsmiley_wix

[JohnStOnge]

Being old enough to have seen both play (Ham on TV and in person, Edwards on TV), I'd go with Ham. Someone said they'd give Edwards the edge passing. I wouldn't. Ham had an NFL caliber arm. He didn't play in the NFL because he didn't fit the mold. But he went to the CFL and threw for over 40,000 yards. I think you could put Ham from 1985 in a time machine, bring him to now, stick him in Appalachian State's offense and he'd really excel. Also, he was playing for a brand new program. If I read right the 1985 and 1986 Georgia Southern national titles came during the program's second and third year at the I-AA level.

I don't know if that's true because I don't know what they would've been in 1982 and 1983. Either way, Ham came in as a freshman when the program was in only its second year. Edwards came into a well established program coming off a national championship and loaded.

[g-webb1994]

I voted Hamm, barely. GSU didn't exactly play a SOCON level schedule back then, but even if they had, Hamm would have hung nicely. What he did to FU in that title game was incredible, even though I pulled hard for FU in it.

[GATA]

Wow...this poll is REALLY close. Right now Armanti is up by 1 vote!

Who says that individual votes don't matter? :D

[straightshooter]

If every voter had the chance to see Ham play in '85 and '86, there wouldn't be any question about who to vote for. Edwards is a great player with a seriously good team. Don't forget that they were good with Richie Williams running that offense too. Ham made play after play with quite a few walk on players as his supporting cast.

[blueballs]

GSU didn't exactly play a SOCON level schedule back then, but even if they had, Hamm would have hung nicely.

GSC's schedule was hardly chopped liver in 1985, as evidenced below.



Florida A&M W 28-21 at Jacksonville, FL
MTSU L 10-35
@Troy W 17-10
@UTC W 19-14
Tenn Tech W 34-0
BCC W 46-24
Newberry W 38-17
@JMU L 6-21
UCF W 35-18
ETSU W 46-7
@SCSU W 43-30

Playoffs:

Jackson St W 27-0
@MTSU W 28-21
@UNI W 40-33
Furman W 44-42 Tacoma, Washington



In 1986 it was even tougher as GSC played two 1-A's on the road:

@Florida L 14-38
FAMU W 35-12 at Jacksonville, FL
@MTSU W 34-31
UTC W 34-14
@TN Tch W 59-13
BCC W 52-31
@ECU L 33-35
@WKU W 49-32
UCF W 33-23
JMU W 45-35
SCSU W 28-7


Playoffs:

NC A&T W 52-21
Nicholls St W 55-31
@Nev Reno W 48-38
Ark St W 48-21 at Tacoma Washington


The back to back road trips in the semis and the finals both years were brutal, especially playing at Nevada Reno and then turning around and going to Tacoma, Washington to play the title game a week later in 1986. That's back to back games against two of the top four teams in the division on the road across 3 time zones, and they won both games by double digit margins. Very impressive!!!!!!!!

In all Ham played in 8 1-AA playoff games and his team won all 8 and averaged 42.75 ppg with 5 out of the 8 being on the road or neutral site games. Very impressive!!!!!!!!!

Now the next logical question is this: How many of those who voted for Edwards ever saw Ham play?

[OL FU]

Would have been interesting for the poll to be one where voters names were shownxnodx

[DLS]

how many those who voted for edwards are neither an app or gsu fan and have ever seen ham play?

[OL FU]

how many those who voted for edwards are neither an app or gsu fan and have ever seen ham play?

That's kinda of where I was going without regard to favoritism for either person. Can't necessarily tell from user names but age and conference and team affiliation would be interesting to see.

[Seven Would Be Nice]

1 vote??






I think I see a hanging chad.....xchinscratchxxchinscratchxxchinscratchx

[bobbythekidd]

With all the young Appy fans on here I never would have thought this was going to be close.

[DLS]

With all the young Appy fans on here I never would have thought this was going to be close.

didnt you hear?

we lost in the playoffs. all the app fans are gone.

[JohnStOnge]

Ark St W 48-21 at Tacoma Washington


The back to back road trips in the semis and the finals both years were brutal, especially playing at Nevada Reno and then turning around and going to Tacoma, Washington to play the title game a week later in 1986.

I'll mention that the Arkansas State team Georgia Southern blew out in the 1986 title game was a really great team. It had what I think was the most impressive performance by a I-AA/FCS ever against a I-A/FBS prior to App State's win over Michigan when it tied an Ole Miss team that went on to finish 8-3-1 10-10. They also had a respectable 24-9 loss to 6-5 Mississippi State and blew out woeful 1-10 I-A Memphis State 30-10.

What you can see in those scores is that Arkansas State had a great defense. Going into the title game they'd given up 10.8 points per contest and nobody had scored more than Mississippi State's 24. I was shocked when Ham & Company scored 48.

[GSUjack]

This is a Ham highlight reel of the 1985 season... Ham is #8 for Georgia Southern. There is footage from win over #1 MTSU, #2 UNI, and the championship game over Furman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MujKdFsMhh8

After this video... can you HONESTLY vote for AE? And even then, aren't those some of the badest moves you've ever seen?

After all, there were two national championships won with this man under the gun.

xhomerx




Being serious....

[AshevilleApp2]

After this video... can you HONESTLY vote for AE? And even then, aren't those some of the badest moves you've ever seen?

After all, there were two national championships won with this man under the gun.

xhomerx




Being serious....

Homer alert for all. xlolx Both led their teams to two NC's. Both are/were great QB's. It's fun to speculate though. Kind of like Ali vs Marciano.

[DLS]

After this video... can you HONESTLY vote for AE? And even then, aren't those some of the badest moves you've ever seen?

After all, there were two national championships won with this man under the gun.

xhomerx




Being serious....

honestly, its a HIGHLIGHT video.

armanti has one of these too. (except his is from one game and not a whole season)xwhistlex

[Killtoppers90]

I have not seen Armani play in person but I have played against Tracy. And let me say this, he was a man among boys when he was on the field. He and GaSouthern came to WKU in 1986, and all I can remember is standing on the sidelines, watching Ham rips us apart. For those of you who have never been to our stadium, there is a set of train tracks that runs right beside the field. And it seemed that everytime a train would come by, Tracy would score. 7 trains came by that day - I hate trains! We did our best to keep it close but The Eagles were just too much for us, winning the game 49-32. Ham is a GOD!

[Appstate29]

After this video... can you HONESTLY vote for AE? And even then, aren't those some of the badest moves you've ever seen?

After all, there were two national championships won with this man under the gun.

xhomerx




Being serious....

I'm not voting b/c i never saw Ham play, and I think its pretty disengenious to vote based only on a highlight video, but I've seen Ae make moves like that and also run over people too. Both obviously are nasty, I hereby declare this a tie.

[Kill'em]

I was in school the same time as Tracy so I have seen both play. What people don't see is that Edwards offense is largely shotgun-based, whail Tracy played exclusively under center. The shotgun gives Armanti more room to run while Tracy had to run down the line of scrimmage to make his runs and trust me, his runs were incredible. For the record, I would have loved to see Edwards run our offense. That would have been unfair to defenses. Of course, he is unfair, already. xbawlingx

For what it's worth, Armanti will have a place beside Tracy in the College Football Hall-of-Fame. xbowx

[proasu89]

You gotta be better than Foster before you can even think about competing with Ham

;)

He is, so the comparison is valid;)

[DLS]

I was in school the same time as Tracy so I have seen both play. What people don't see is that Edwards offense is largely shotgun-based, whail Tracy played exclusively under center. The shotgun gives Armanti more room to run while Tracy had to run down the line of scrimmage to make his runs and trust me, his runs were incredible. For the record, I would have loved to see Edwards run our offense. That would have been unfair to defenses. Of course, he is unfair, already. xbawlingx

For what it's worth, Armanti will have a place beside Tracy in the College Football Hall-of-Fame. xbowx

so youre saying armanti cant be as good because he plays in a smarter offense?

xeyebrowx

[Kill'em]

First, I don't know what you mean by smarter offense. Second, I am saying he gets an advantage by being in the shotgun, not that he is not a good QB. Remember, I said it would have been great to see how well he would have been in our offense. That is what makes this debate so interesting and so difficult, two very different offenses, not to mention over 20 years between playing days.

[DLS]

First, I don't know what you mean by smarter offense. Second, I am saying he gets an advantage by being in the shotgun, not that he is not a good QB. Remember, I said it would have been great to see how well he would have been in our offense. That is what makes this debate so interesting and so difficult, two very different offenses, not to mention over 20 years between playing days.

if having tracy line up in shotgun was such an advantage then they would of had him just do it. they used what worked best and most adventageous for them. if they didnt then i would say they were stupid, hence the "smarter offense" comment.

[blueballs]

if having tracy line up in shotgun was such an advantage then they would of had him just do it. they used what worked best and most adventageous for them. if they didnt then i would say they were stupid, hence the "smarter offense" comment.

In the early to mid 80's hardly anybody lined up in a shotgun... to do so was pretty much a trick play.

In a fantasy world I would have loved to have seen Ham play with App's offenses of 2006 and 2007. It would have been ridiculous because you're talking about a legitimate 1000 yard rusher with an NFL caliber arm to go with the "it" factor and with big time talent and experience surrounding him.

Also in the "you never know how it would have turned out" dept Edwards was being recruited heavily by GSU and (had Sewak remained at GSU) may have been the starting QB for GSU now.

At the same time could you imagine Edwards as the QB of GSU's 1998 and 1999 offenses for the same reason as Ham with the 2006/2007 App unit?

Given everything that wound up happening I'd have to say it worked out well for Edwards.xsmiley_wix

[DLS]

so if edwards was lining up in the shotgun in the mid-80's it would have been a clear advantage given his running abilities. i can understand you saying that.

[blueballs]

so if edwards was lining up in the shotgun in the mid-80's it would have been a clear advantage given his running abilities. i can understand you saying that.

......much easier to throw from the gun too.

[GATA]

Paul Johnson talked Erk into running the flexbone because they could take advantage of an athlete like Tracy Ham...the offense allowed him to take over football games...

Armanti Edwards does the same thing in the spread...the concept in both cases is the same. Run an offense that allows you to take advantage of a QB who can run AND throw.

These guys are pretty much exactly the same. Armanti is just the 2009 version of Tracy Ham.

[JohnStOnge]

These guys are pretty much exactly the same. Armanti is just the 2009 version of Tracy Ham.

I'd say there are some differences. Ham was quick but not that fast. He was like a 4.6 or 4.7 guy. But he was fast enough, very quick with his moves, and very hard to tackle. Though Edwards does run aggressively and physically, I think Ham was the more physical runner in terms of running over people, etc.

In the passing game Ham had a stronger Arm than Edwards and, though I'd have to do some difficult research to be sure, tended to try to go way downfield more. Of course part of that is that that's the way that offense works. But he did have a cannon.

[JohnStOnge]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MujKdFsMhh8


After this video... can you HONESTLY vote for AE? And even then, aren't those some of the badest moves you've ever seen?

After all, there were two national championships won with this man under the gun. .

That video was more of an overall 85 GSU highlight film than a Ham highlight film, but I do think you can pick a few things up from it. One, you can see that Ham didn't have the top end speed Edwards had. You can see that he had real good quickness and accelleration but once he was topped out he was easily caught from behind several times during those highlights. You wouldn't see Edwards caught from behind like that. Second, on the other hand, you can get an idea of his arm. He did some things with his arm during that highlight video that I don't think Edwards could do.

One thing I didn't see in that video was how powerful a runner he was. The was really physical and hard to tackle.

[JohnStOnge]

so youre saying armanti cant be as good because he plays in a smarter offense?

xeyebrowx

I would say that the offense Edwards plays in is more conducive to getting a high completion percentage, etc. Better passing efficiency statistics. I wouldn't say it's smarter or more effective. I think the offense Georgia Southern ran when Ham was there was and is an extremelyl effective offense if you've got the people...and particularly the quarterback...to run it.

[Kill'em]

Ham was definitely not as fast as Edwards but I think he was more elusive. He had some of the shiftiest feet I have ever seen. That is what made him great. Edwards runs by you. Ham left you to pick up your jock.

Again, I would love to have had both at Georgia Southern.

[Kill'em]

Paul Johnson talked Erk into running the flexbone because they could take advantage of an athlete like Tracy Ham...the offense allowed him to take over football games...

Armanti Edwards does the same thing in the spread...the concept in both cases is the same. Run an offense that allows you to take advantage of a QB who can run AND throw.

These guys are pretty much exactly the same. Armanti is just the 2009 version of Tracy Ham.

I remember an interview with Erk and he said he wanted to run the "I." Johnson talked him out of it. Thank God Erk was wise enough to listen! xbowx

[mrklean]

I have to vote for Tracy Ham. I had a friend from my home town Church who played for the Gators and he told me that Tracy was better that any QB on the Gators roster that year.

[Kill'em]

I have to vote for Tracy Ham. I had a friend from my home town Church who played for the Gators and he told me that Tracy was better that any QB on the Gators roster that year.

If I remember the overrated Kerwin Bell was the Gators' QB.

[BDKJMU]

Ham
- The only QB in I-AA history to rush for at least 1,000 yards in a single season.



Actually, one of two...Jayson Foster had 1,844 yards in 2007 xpeacex

Make that one of 3. Landers rushed for 1273 in 07' & 1884 last season (1491 regular season).

There's probably others too. maybe Ham was the only in in I-AA history to rush for 1k yards in a single season at the time (when playoff stats weren't counted). After all, 86' was only the 9th? yr of I-AA football.

[gsudevil]

I saw a busted play where Ham ran one way and everybody else on GSC's team ran the other way. Ham scored about a 45 or 50 yard touchdown.

[soweagle]

Make that one of 3. Landers rushed for 1273 in 07' & 1884 last season (1491 regular season).

There's probably others too. maybe Ham was the only in in I-AA history to rush for 1k yards in a single season at the time (when playoff stats weren't counted). After all, 86' was only the 9th? yr of I-AA football.

If you went back and allow all the qb's who's stats do not reflect post season then you will probably have more. Only in the last few years have playoff's counted towards total stats.

[DLS]

I saw a busted play where Ham ran one way and everybody else on GSC's team ran the other way. Ham scored about a 45 or 50 yard touchdown.

i saw a couple plays where armanti out ran the entire team. edwards scored 50+ yard touchdowns.

[GATA]

i saw a couple plays where armanti out ran the entire team. edwards scored 50+ yard touchdowns.

I think the fastest I have ever seen Edwards run was against Richmond two years ago in the playoffs...it just looked like he had a rocket up his ass.

He's normally really fast, but in that game he looked superhuman.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Make that one of 3. Landers rushed for 1273 in 07' & 1884 last season (1491 regular season).

There's probably others too. maybe Ham was the only in in I-AA history to rush for 1k yards in a single season at the time (when playoff stats weren't counted). After all, 86' was only the 9th? yr of I-AA football.

Yea, I think that was an old Stat that I pulled from his college highlights. Ham may have been the first to do it but many have done it since. AE has done in 2 seasons and missed in the third by less than 60yds. He would have had no problem breaking the 1000 yard mark if he was not injured for the Western game or could have been healthy enough to run in the Richmond game. (that being said he may also have passed for 3k last year if you counted the yardage he gained for the opposing team over the course of 5 int's to richmond.)

[GATA]

Yea, I think that was an old Stat that I pulled from his college highlights. Ham may have been the first to do it but many have done it since. AE has done in 2 seasons and missed in the third by less than 60yds. He would have had no problem breaking the 1000 yard mark if he was not injured for the Western game or could have been healthy enough to run in the Richmond game. (that being said he may also have passed for 3k last year if you counted the yardage he gained for the opposing team over the course of 5 int's to richmond.)

Exactly. Foster did it in 2005 when he was our flexbone QB and again in 2007 in that gun option look. He certainly would have done it in 2006 as well had VanGorder not moved him to receiver and scrapped the hambone.

[eaglewraith]

i saw a couple plays where armanti out ran the entire team. edwards scored 50+ yard touchdowns.

Once again gotta be better than Foster first....he scored from 80+ yards multiple times :D

[seantaylor]

Foster just had another level of speed and quickness neither Ham nor Edwards have.

[Hoyadestroya85]

i quite enjoy this respectful thread

[blueballs]

Once again gotta be better than Foster first....he scored from 80+ yards multiple times :D


Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I read where Foster is the only player in division 1 history to throw an 80+ yard TD pass, catch an 80+ yard TD pass, have an 80+yard TD KO return, have an 80+yard TD punt return, and have an 80+ yard rushing TD.

It truly is too bad he, Covington, and the o-line SR's GSU graduated in 2007 didn't get to play their entire tenures in the system they were recruited and spent their first three years in. Sewak had told me one night that he thought they would have been unstoppable in that system by the time they were fifth year seniors- and it is very likely Edwards would have been redshirted and wiating in the wings to keep it going.

[eaglewraith]

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I read where Foster is the only player in division 1 history to throw an 80+ yard TD pass, catch an 80+ yard TD pass, have an 80+yard TD KO return, have an 80+yard TD punt return, and have an 80+ yard rushing TD.

It truly is too bad he, Covington, and the o-line SR's GSU graduated in 2007 didn't get to play their entire tenures in the system they were recruited and spent their first three years in. Sewak had told me one night that he thought they would have been unstoppable in that system by the time they were fifth year seniors- and it is very likely Edwards would have been redshirted and wiating in the wings to keep it going.

I know it's correct for Division 1, but I'm inclined to think that's an all division record as well.

[Saint3333]

I went with AE as AE would perform better in the old GSU system than Ham would in the spread.

I'd take a clone of either at ASU in 2010 though.

[seantaylor]

I went with AE as AE would perform better in the old GSU system than Ham would in the spread.

I'd take a clone of either at ASU in 2010 though.

Huh? No way. Ham is a FAR superior passer to Edwards. Ham would have thrived in the ASU offense.

[eaglewraith]

I went with AE as AE would perform better in the old GSU system than Ham would in the spread.

I'd take a clone of either at ASU in 2010 though.

Honestly I don't think Armanti has the durability to be a true option QB. Being back in the shotgun protects him from getting hit a lot, if he was in GSU's system he'd be on the line every play and take quite a few shots.

Not knocking his ability in any way, but I think a whole season of taking the hits would take its toll. I never wanted to admit it, but in 2005 you could tell Foster wasn't the same toward the end of the year as he was at the beginning and he was a lot better at eluding the hit than Edwards. It may not have been much different but it was enough to notice that he was slowing down a little and he wasn't moving quite the same. I don't know if in 2007 he just became superhuman or what, but he seemed to get faster as the year went on. I think being in the shotgun the whole season helped protect him and gave him more room to do what he does....and the same goes for Armanti.

[Eagle22]

Make that one of 3. Landers rushed for 1273 in 07' & 1884 last season (1491 regular season).

There's probably others too. maybe Ham was the only in in I-AA history to rush for 1k yards in a single season at the time (when playoff stats weren't counted). After all, 86' was only the 9th? yr of I-AA football.

Ham was the first.

GSU QB Greg Hill was the second. Hill was named the SoCon offensive player of the year in 1999, when AP won the Walter Payton award.

Western Kentucky's Willie Taggart might have accomplished the feat as well, when the Hilltoppers were I-AA.

As far as I'm aware ... Ham, Hill and Taggart were the only QB's with 3000 career yards passing and 3000 yards rushing ..... and none of those accomplished that feat with playoff stats included, pretty remarkable ... especially for Hill, who started just two and a half seasons.

I'm sure Armanti will join them, if he hasn't eclisped the 3000 yard rushing plateau yet, he will.

[purplebear72]

I think Ham was better and meant a little more to his team. I remember when Ham destroyed Ark St in 86 that was the first time I had witnessed a QB run for over a hundred and throw for 300. His numbers were unheard of in its time. I think the spread offenses today help benefit good athletes with good arms.
Didn't Ham have a nice career in the CFL? Would AE be able to do the same? I guess he might if he had a chance. I will say that AE would have a better chance at playing in the NFL (but not as a full time QB).

[introvertedGSUfan]

I think Ham was better and meant a little more to his team. I remember when Ham destroyed Ark St in 86 that was the first time I had witnessed a QB run for over a hundred and throw for 300. His numbers were unheard of in its time. I think the spread offenses today help benefit good athletes with good arms.
Didn't Ham have a nice career in the CFL? Would AE be able to do the same? I guess he might if he had a chance. I will say that AE would have a better chance at playing in the NFL (but not as a full time QB).

Ham had an outstanding CFL career and won two Grey Cups if I remember correctly. If Armanti wants to play first string QB then he should definitely consider the CFL, but I doubt he will.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Michael Bishop has been a good cfl QB

[Longrifle]

Ham was the first.

GSU QB Greg Hill was the second. Hill was named the SoCon offensive player of the year in 1999, when AP won the Walter Payton award.

Western Kentucky's Willie Taggart might have accomplished the feat as well, when the Hilltoppers were I-AA.

As far as I'm aware ... Ham, Hill and Taggart were the only QB's with 3000 career yards passing and 3000 yards rushing ..... and none of those accomplished that feat with playoff stats included, pretty remarkable ... especially for Hill, who started just two and a half seasons.

I'm sure Armanti will join them, if he hasn't eclisped the 3000 yard rushing plateau yet, he will.

After 3 years, AE has 3,682 yards rushing, and 7,101 yards passing for a total of 10,783 yards. If he stays healthy his senior year I look for him to get pretty close to the 14,000 yard plateau. Now, this does include 10 playoff games in 3 seasons. AE sports a 9-1 playoff record, a win over Michigan, and 2 National Championships. I did not get to see Ham play, but I have heard a lot about him. I think both are remarkable in the systems that they played or play in.

[appstfan]

Armanti needs 1122 yards rushing to become Appalchian all-time rushing leader. He also needs just 658 yard passing to become the all-time passing leader for yardage.

I know he will get the passing yards.

He is already the leader in total offense.

[Touchdown Yosef]

Ham had an outstanding CFL career and won two Grey Cups if I remember correctly. If Armanti wants to play first string QB then he should definitely consider the CFL, but I doubt he will.

I think what Armanti does will have a lot to do with how well Pat White fares in the NFL next year. If he used correctly and does some unique things and other teams what to add that dimension to their offense AE will get some serious looks from NFL teams. Maybe not a true QB but a pretty intriguing role.

If Pat White doesn't do much AE will be fighting an uphill battle and may very well end up in the CFL with Richie.

[Kill'em]

Honestly I don't think Armanti has the durability to be a true option QB. Being back in the shotgun protects him from getting hit a lot, if he was in GSU's system he'd be on the line every play and take quite a few shots.

Not knocking his ability in any way, but I think a whole season of taking the hits would take its toll. I never wanted to admit it, but in 2005 you could tell Foster wasn't the same toward the end of the year as he was at the beginning and he was a lot better at eluding the hit than Edwards. It may not have been much different but it was enough to notice that he was slowing down a little and he wasn't moving quite the same. I don't know if in 2007 he just became superhuman or what, but he seemed to get faster as the year went on. I think being in the shotgun the whole season helped protect him and gave him more room to do what he does....and the same goes for Armanti.

I don't know about that. He got beaten up as a freshman in Statesboro but we could never get him out of his game. I think he would do fine.