The CSN Way: Woof, Woof, Woof

[CSN-info]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php?blog=5&title=the-csn-way-woof-woof-woof&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/skins/andreas_01/img/CSNWay.JPG


By Chuck Burton, The CSN Way Columnist

An annual rite of passage after the playoff selection is the analysis of who got “woofed"?

The term came from the great national FCS columnist David Coulson in 2002, who coined the term (a more generic form of Ralph Wallace’s “Wofforded") in this very column before moving to the Sports Network, home of the Walter Payton award and the FCS Top 25 poll. It was named after the aforementioned Wofford Terriers, who in 2002 were skunked from a postseason bid after posting a resume that many thought was worthy of an at-large selection.

After watching this year’s selection show, I’m left with a lot of head-scratching and a lot of candidates for Woofy awards. Though the GPI will help determine it more, I don’t think it can be given to just one school - there are plenty of Woofies to go around.

xeekx

[OL FU]

xthumbsupx Someone should mail this to the committee now and mail it again next year before they selectxnodx

[Rob Iola]

Good article. That said, why is there this surprise over the committee's selections? If NCAA policy was to seed teams based on rankings then sure there's cause for confusion. But the policy is heavily weighted towards regionalization and bids (read, attendance and money), so there you go...

[Saint3333]

Good article. That said, why is there this surprise over the committee's selections? If NCAA policy was to seed teams based on rankings then sure there's cause for confusion. But the policy is heavily weighted towards regionalization and bids (read, attendance and money), so there you go...

Nail on the head, if we could end that the brackets would be much better.

Also seed the top 8 to avoid Weber St./Cal Poly this year and JMU/ASU last year type games.

[grizbeer]

Montana and Weber were co-champions in the BSC, Montana did not leap-frog Weber - yes WSU got the autobid and won head to head, but Montana also beat Cal Poly head to head, so if that was a problem how can it also be a problem that Montana beat out Cal Poly for the seed? xconfusedx xconfusedx

edit Also, is Burton aware that Montana has the best record in all of FCS football (yes 11-1 is better than 10-1). He really thinks there is something wrong when the team with the best record in the FCS gets the #4 seed over teams with 2 - 3 losses? Sour grapes about something?

[appfan2008]

great article... I agree with all the issues raised and it is unfortunate that these things dont get worked out better... it will never be perfect but it certainly could have been done better!

[Jackman]

Elon gets no woof. There was only one spot available and they lost convincingly to another bubble team in the final game of the season. You can't put them in over Liberty after that, end of discussion.

Only Liberty and W&M get to whine. But only whine, they don't get woofs. Liberty had the two worst losses of any bubble team. I actually agree that W&M had a slightly better resume than Maine, but when you're splitting hairs over scoring margins in losing games and who was taking knees versus running two minute drills, that's not getting woofed. Next time get into a two-way tiebreaker for the second-to-last spot, not the last spot. Then you'll be fine.

[MacThor]

I agree with most of the rest, but sheesh...more Elon love from Chuck. After getting crushed in their final game of the season does anyone besides Mr. Burton think Elon got "woofed?"

[UNI Pike]

Presbyterian College > Liberty > Elon

If feel bad for Liberty, but they had their chance. They are definitely moving in the right direction. If Elon wants to complain about not getting picked, here's the appropriate venue

http://baysideproducts.com/store/images/windsor_cheval_mirror.jpg

[Khan4Cats]

Nail on the head, if we could end that the brackets would be much better.

Also seed the top 8 to avoid Weber St./Cal Poly this year and JMU/ASU last year type games.

May not have a difference this year. They may have seeded them, sort of and determined Cal-Poly was 5 and Weber 12. The only one that doesn't really work out is Wofford, they are NOT #16.

The rest:

1) JMU 16) Wofford (way too low)
2) ASU 15) SC State (maybe low, but I don't think a 16 either)
3) UNI 14) Maine (a bit high but works for match-up purpose)
4) UM 13) Texas State (about right)
5) Cal-Poly 12) Weber State (after loss, okay)
6) SIU 11) New Hampshire (about right, flipped with Colgate for match-up?)
7) Richmond (higher than Nova?) 10) Eastern Kentucky (a touch high)
8) Villanova 9) Colgate (a little high)

[phoenixphanatic21]

Presbyterian College > Liberty > Elon

If feel bad for Liberty, but they had their chance. They are definitely moving in the right direction. If Elon wants to complain about not getting picked, here's the appropriate venue

http://baysideproducts.com/store/images/windsor_cheval_mirror.jpg

I'm not complaining. There's absolutely no reason we should've got in over Liberty, and I'm sure 99% of Elon fans will agree with that.

And I can understand your logic behind saying that, but we did destroy Presby 66-12 earlier this year. xoopsx

[ASUG8]

It's very hard to justify to FBS fans how great the playoff system is when the selection committee pulls a debacle like this. I found myself at lunch today trying to explain (with a straight face) that JMU is playing a #9, #2 vs. #13, etc. I was completely pulling answers from my nether regions, and little of it made any sense. How can you explain it when you don't understand it yourself? xconfusedx

[Ronbo]

Blah, blah, blah, once again a Griz hater that writes for FCS can't stand that Montana got a seed.

Geeze guys, the Griz HAVE the best record in FCS 11-1 and beat the #3 team in the Country at their house!

What are you writers saying about Montana????? Do we need to go undefeated and beat the #1 team to get a 4 seed?????? You guys (Mr. Burton, Mr. Coulson, and Ralph Bednarczyk over at SME) need to cool the anti Griz bias. It's really evident and not professional.xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

[MacThor]

It's very hard to justify to FBS fans how great the playoff system is when the selection committee pulls a debacle like this. I found myself at lunch today trying to explain (with a straight face) that JMU is playing a #9, #2 vs. #13, etc. I was completely pulling answers from my nether regions, and little of it made any sense. How can you explain it when you don't understand it yourself? xconfusedx

It's not that big of a debacle. A debacle would be "Hey ASU and JMU, you play in the FCS Champsionship game. All you other schools travel to a neutral site and play one game named after a corporation and a piece of fruit."

Who would do a thing like that?

[OL FU]

I understand the argument that the best teams should get in but since the purpose of this is to determine a national champion hasn't the issue of a fifth place team in a conference of 12 or a fourth place team in a conference of 9 or the third place team in a conference of 6 or 7 already been determined in the regular season. Personally I would rather the see the unknown get the crap knocked out of them with the potential to surprise someone than a team that has already lost to all the top teams in their conference. In many respects it simply makes no sense.

[UNI Pike]

I'm not complaining. There's absolutely no reason we should've got in over Liberty, and I'm sure 99% of Elon fans will agree with that.

And I can understand your logic behind saying that, but we did destroy Presby 66-12 earlier this year. xoopsx

Not attempting to bust on you, but it was setup for you. It didn't happen. If you had won, you would have likely be "rewarded" with one of those games nobody wanted. JMU or Richmond?

[phoenixphanatic21]

Not attempting to bust on you, but it was setup for you. It didn't happen. If you had won, you would have likely be "rewarded" with one of those games nobody wanted. JMU or Richmond?

Yea I know. Great reward for getting in the playoffs xnonono2x though it would be better than sitting at home for Thanksgiving.

Well there's always next year, right?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Presbyterian College > Liberty > Elon

If feel bad for Liberty, but they had their chance. They are definitely moving in the right direction. If Elon wants to complain about not getting picked, here's the appropriate venue

http://baysideproducts.com/store/images/windsor_cheval_mirror.jpg

I'm really surprised that folks think that the 5th-best team out of the CAA is better than the 3rd-best team in the SoCon. That a team with one SoCon conference loss is clearly worse than a Maine team with three conference losses.

If the CAA was so great - deserving of 5 teams - then how come Villanova isn't seeded?

If the SoCon is so weak - with only two teams in the field, and one playing at No. 1 James Madsion - how come App State is the No. 2 overall seed?

If it didn't matter that Maine lost to a ranked team on the final day, why should it have mattered for Elon's chances? Both teams lost two of their last three to ranked teams - and Elon was in the Top 10 for most of the year.

Sorry, if Maine was on the table, Elon should have been, too. I'm not saying they were my 16th seed, but they have a beef based on who was selected.

[Biff]

It's very hard to justify to FBS fans how great the playoff system is when the selection committee pulls a debacle like this. I found myself at lunch today trying to explain (with a straight face) that JMU is playing a #9, #2 vs. #13, etc. I was completely pulling answers from my nether regions, and little of it made any sense. How can you explain it when you don't understand it yourself? xconfusedx

Who cares how they play when you talk to FBS'ers. The point is we have a true playoff. It may be flawed in how we pair teams up, but at least we take some resemblence of the top 16 teams and pin them up against each other. The true champion is going to win out.

As for JMU, who cares. Wofford is a chump team according to their coach. At least I remember reading an article saying App had the easy road. http://goupstate.us/index.php/2008/10/27/lucky-jmu-coach-socon-not-that-good?blog=16 So JMU playing Wofford up front is fair. However, everyone else that knows something about football knows Wofford is a great team and part of the reason the SoCon is a tough conference. I hope they beat the crap out of JMU.

[appfan2008]

Blah, blah, blah, once again a Griz hater that writes for FCS can't stand that Montana got a seed.

Geeze guys, the Griz HAVE the best record in FCS 11-1 and beat the #3 team in the Country at their house!

What are you writers saying about Montana????? Do we need to go undefeated and beat the #1 team to get a 4 seed?????? You guys (Mr. Burton, Mr. Coulson, and Ralph Bednarczyk over at SME) need to cool the anti Griz bias. It's really evident and not professional.xnonono2x xnonono2x xnonono2x

its called they wish their teams were as good as you as consistently as you... jealousy...

[Ronbo]

It's very hard to justify to FBS fans how great the playoff system is when the selection committee pulls a debacle like this. I found myself at lunch today trying to explain (with a straight face) that JMU is playing a #9, #2 vs. #13, etc. I was completely pulling answers from my nether regions, and little of it made any sense. How can you explain it when you don't understand it yourself? xconfusedx

I've said it before and I'll say it again......

"If you want to be the best you need to beat the best whether it's early in the playoffs or late in the playoffs!"

How's this for a 2nd round game? #3 Cal Poly against #5 Montana. Could very well happen.

[already123]

good read...definitely cleared up some things for me

[JMU2K_DukeDawg]

I've said it before and I'll say it again......

"If you want to be the best you need to beat the best whether it's early in the playoffs or late in the playoffs!"

How's this for a 2nd round game? #3 Cal Poly against #5 Montana. Could very well happen.

I would argue that Villanova is #3 and JMU would be #1 vs. #3 if they both advance.

You point is well taken, but understand that 2nd round games usually are super tough. 1st round games should be for the non-seeded teams IMO.

[putter]

Heck, even our AD said he felt that Montana getting a seed was "lucky". That is amazing..xconfusedx

http://http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/11/24/sports/sports04.txt

look for the comment at the bottom of the page...xeekx

[GreatAppSt]

Heck, even our AD said he felt that Montana getting a seed was "lucky". That is amazing..xconfusedx

http://http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2008/11/24/sports/sports04.txt

look for the comment at the bottom of the page...xeekx

hmmm

[Houndawg]

I'm really surprised that folks think that the 5th-best team out of the CAA is better than the 3rd-best team in the SoCon. That a team with one SoCon conference loss is clearly worse than a Maine team with three conference losses.

If the CAA was so great - deserving of 5 teams - then how come Villanova isn't seeded?

If the SoCon is so weak - with only two teams in the field, and one playing at No. 1 James Madsion - how come App State is the No. 2 overall seed?

If it didn't matter that Maine lost to a ranked team on the final day, why should it have mattered for Elon's chances? Both teams lost two of their last three to ranked teams - and Elon was in the Top 10 for most of the year.

Sorry, if Maine was on the table, Elon should have been, too. I'm not saying they were my 16th seed, but they have a beef based on who was selected.

Because even the selection committee would be embarassed by five teams and two seeds for the CAA?

[LacesOut]

For all of the moaning, whining, and complaining in that article, I wasn't sure if the author was writing about the I-AA playoffs or the BCS system?!?!?

Sir, please calm down and be thankful that there is a playoff system. It is perfect? No, no it's not. It is what it is.

[charliej]

Montana and Weber were co-champions in the BSC, Montana did not leap-frog Weber - yes WSU got the autobid and won head to head, but Montana also beat Cal Poly head to head, so if that was a problem how can it also be a problem that Montana beat out Cal Poly for the seed? xconfusedx xconfusedx

edit Also, is Burton aware that Montana has the best record in all of FCS football (yes 11-1 is better than 10-1). He really thinks there is something wrong when the team with the best record in the FCS gets the #4 seed over teams with 2 - 3 losses? Sour grapes about something? Even if the 11th win is a last minute 3 pt squeaker over a DII?xeyebrowx

BTW...I had NO problem with Montana getting a seed

[charliej]

I'm really surprised that folks think that the 5th-best team out of the CAA is better than the 3rd-best team in the SoCon. That a team with one SoCon conference loss is clearly worse than a Maine team with three conference losses.

If the CAA was so great - deserving of 5 teams - then how come Villanova isn't seeded?

If the SoCon is so weak - with only two teams in the field, and one playing at No. 1 James Madsion - how come App State is the No. 2 overall seed?

If it didn't matter that Maine lost to a ranked team on the final day, why should it have mattered for Elon's chances? Both teams lost two of their last three to ranked teams - and Elon was in the Top 10 for most of the year.

Sorry, if Maine was on the table, Elon should have been, too. I'm not saying they were my 16th seed, but they have a beef based on who was selected.

Because there is no way in he!! that Nova can get 20,000 butts in the stadium.;)

[Ronbo]

That squeaker over the DII is a 10-1 DII with their only loss us. We gave them 5 turnovers that didn't help. We outgained them 2-1. But anyway if they win the DII Championship it won't look so bad. Hell, we lost to NDSU in 2003 then the next year they came to FCS and have swept the carpet with you guys ever since. The top DII's are also top 20 FCS quality, get used to it and quit putting them down. GVSU could be a perennial top 5 here.

[Boots Harvey]

May be wrong, but didn't Georgia Southern get into the playoffs as a bottom seed in 1985 with an 8-3 record? I think they were an independent then. That was their first NC.

That's what I "liked" about the playoff system of old. Saw it put here earlier too. #1 seed played #16, #2 vs. #15, etc.

I think both JMU and Wofford should be pissed that they have to play each other in the first round. I do think Coach Karate Chop @ Wofford must have angered somebody. Last year, they travel to Montana when they should have hosted. This year, they're playing the #1 ranked team in the nation.

The post with the mirror for Elon is priceless...much deserved.

[blur2005]

The moment Weber State lost, I figured Montana would get a seed, #3 or #4. I'm not sure why people are saying the Griz shouldn't have gotten one, having gone 11-1 (7-1), a very good season indeed. Now, if Weber State had won out, the Wildcats definitely would've been in the running for a seed and would have been ahead of Montana in that discussion. Alas, for Weber State, it didn't happen.

[charliej]

That squeaker over the DII is a 10-1 DII with their only loss us. We gave them 5 turnovers that didn't help. We outgained them 2-1. But anyway if they win the DII Championship it won't look so bad. Hell, we lost to NDSU in 2003 then the next year they came to FCS and have swept the carpet with you guys ever since. The top DII's are also top 20 FCS quality, get used to it and quit putting them down. GVSU could be a perennial top 5 here.

Umm...They got knocked out in the first round, by the #9 seed.xnodx

[GrizFanStuckInUtah]

All I have to say on this subject is.....we will end up with a National Champion that only a few really homerish homers will still argue about. The rest of us will know who the champ is and congratulate them. The fBS system is way worse and who gives a crap if you go to the arm&hammer toilet bowl anyway xpeacex xrulesx

[Hoyadestroya85]

I say that Chuck and Bruce should host the show on ESPNU