Patriot League - Week 10

[carney2]

November 1

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
12:30 PM

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
1:00 PM

Marist @ FORDHAM
1:00 PM

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
1:00 PM

Don't forget to turn your clocks back - Sunday, November 2nd, 2:00 AM

[carney2]

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
The Buffalos graduated from football kindergarten this past week when Colgate schooled them in the running game and how real teams play college football. This week it’s Football 102: The Passing Game.

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
Come on, confess. At one time or another in September and early October you entertained the thought that this would be a game the Hoyas could win. No longer. The ChickenSquawks have circled the wagons. It won’t produce a winning season, but they’re not floundering anymore. Frankly, they just don’t have the talent that some of their supporters think they have. Whatever else you may think of Andy Coen, he’s held this team together through some tough times. He still seems to have the players’ attention. All of this is bad news for the Hoyas who are still struggling to grab that bottom rung on the ladder of football success.

Marist @ FORDHAM
The Rams are headed south, but not this far south.

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League! Two teams on a roll. Can the Pards overcome all those injuries? Will Jordan Scott play? Does it really matter? Despite this being a Curse game that Lafayette just doesn’t win, I’m going against the gods on the suspicion - or homer hope - that there is really something special happening on College Hill this year.

[LCFan21]

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
The Buffalos graduated from football kindergarten this past week when Colgate schooled them in the running game and how real teams play college football. This week it’s Football 102: The Passing Game.

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
Come on, confess. At one time or another in September and early October you entertained the thought that this would be a game the Hoyas could win. No longer. The ChickenSquawks have circled the wagons. It won’t produce a winning season, but they’re not floundering anymore. Frankly, they just don’t have the talent that some of their supporters think they have. Whatever else you may think of Andy Coen, he’s held this team together through some tough times. He still seems to have the players’ attention. All of this is bad news for the Hoyas who are still struggling to grab that bottom rung on the ladder of football success.

Marist @ FORDHAM
The Rams are headed south, but not this far south.

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League! Two teams on a roll. Can the Pards overcome all those injuries? Will Jordan Scott play? Does it really matter? Despite this being a Curse game that Lafayette just doesn’t win, I’m going against the gods on the suspicion - or homer hope - that there is really something special happening on College Hill this year.

Is Fordham that bad? Or is LC just that good? We will find out this week! I expected the Fordham game to tell us more but no such luck. 6 - 1 going into November - line is starting to fire on all cylinders - Depth is key and it seems these guys are getting a spark from the new competition - Coaches are making solid adjustments and utilizing the players strengths better then I have seen in years - we need to get some coverage issues worked out in the secondary/ LB's but other than that our D has played one bad half this entire season. Should be a war next week - looking forward to seeing a great game.

[DFW HOYA]

Whatever else you may think of Andy Coen, he’s held this team together through some tough times. He still seems to have the players’ attention. All of this is bad news for the Hoyas who are still struggling to grab that bottom rung on the ladder of football success.


The bottom rung may be generous. Georgetown had its worst execution of the season Saturday:

1. It totaled four--count em, four-- turnovers inside its own 20 Saturday that led to 24 Richmond points. Three were fumbled snaps on first down, no less, and two were on consecutive series to open the half: Richmond took all of 24 seconds to add 14 points. Georgetown averages 3.3 fumbles a game.

2. Georgetown's starting QB was 1 of 5 for one yard and three fumbles. As a team, the Hoyas managed eight yards passing because they only complted four of 11 passes.

3. Through three quarters, even with an almost all-run game, the Hoyas held the ball for only 15:48.

4. You know how bad this got? By the middle of the third quarter, the Richmond radio brodcasters stopped doing play by play! They just started interviewing former players coming through the booth and would interrupt every few minutes with time and score.

Georgetown is averaging 10.0 points per game this season. Yet Lehigh has scored fewer than 41 points just once in the last seven meetings, averaging 46.1 points a game against Georgetown since 2001.

[crusader11]

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League! Two teams on a roll. Can the Pards overcome all those injuries? Will Jordan Scott play? Does it really matter? Despite this being a Curse game that Lafayette just doesn’t win, I’m going against the gods on the suspicion - or homer hope - that there is really something special happening on College Hill this year.

Haha, ok carney, ok.

[LehighFan11]

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
The Buffalos graduated from football kindergarten this past week when Colgate schooled them in the running game and how real teams play college football. This week it’s Football 102: The Passing Game.

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
Come on, confess. At one time or another in September and early October you entertained the thought that this would be a game the Hoyas could win. No longer. The ChickenSquawks have circled the wagons. It won’t produce a winning season, but they’re not floundering anymore. Frankly, they just don’t have the talent that some of their supporters think they have. Whatever else you may think of Andy Coen, he’s held this team together through some tough times. He still seems to have the players’ attention. All of this is bad news for the Hoyas who are still struggling to grab that bottom rung on the ladder of football success.

Marist @ FORDHAM
The Rams are headed south, but not this far south.

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League! Two teams on a roll. Can the Pards overcome all those injuries? Will Jordan Scott play? Does it really matter? Despite this being a Curse game that Lafayette just doesn’t win, I’m going against the gods on the suspicion - or homer hope - that there is really something special happening on College Hill this year.

Alright that saves us alot of time. Season is over after next saturday.

Denis Green's quote "If you want to crown em, crown em!"

[LCFan21]

A LOT of football is left - HC has gone toe to toe with some good football teams - Lehigh gave Harvard more then LC did - Still wide open IMHO. Who wants it more??? We shall learn more next Saturday. Love the use of the Denis Green quote!

[DFW HOYA]

Lafayette-Colgate should be the title game at this point.

And don't count out Marist agaisnt Fordham just yet--they lost a close one to Bucknell (21-17) and may be favored over Georgetown in two weeks.

[Ken_Z]

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League!

uh oh. i agree with carney on something. this is either a sign that the apocolyse is upon us, or more likely HC is destined to win it all.

in any case this is all making for a pretty exciting season in the PL.

[bulldog10jw]

Denis Green's quote "If you want to crown em, crown em!"

I think he actually said "if you want to crown their ass" xsmiley_wix

[LehighFan11]

I think he actually said "if you want to crown their ass" xsmiley_wix

True, his speech wasn't exactly children friendly so I figured I'd paraphrase.

[Pard4Life]

Carney is not the official spokesperson of Lafayette.

Granted the Pards are playing well, we still have some issues, namely injuries. Romans went down, our starting RB went down. The backup who raked in 146 yards had a concussion. We still have problems defending the middle of the field and the spread... and still surrender a big play or two per game.

The difference is that the Pards are answering the big plays, executing their blocks, and controlling the ball... we held the ball for 35 minutes at Fordham, and about the same at Liberty.

Colgate has Eachus and Scott... until we stop a big running game, I won't believe it until it actually happens. Last year we raced to a 21-3 lead and Scott smoked us.

Of course, do not count out Holy Cross... and Bucknell for that matter. The Bison are poised to win a big game this year... and I hope it's not us. As for HC, they are mere points away from being 7-0... win those games and we will not be calling Colgate "the PL title game".

[letsgopards04]

November 1

BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS
12:30 PM

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN
1:00 PM

Marist @ FORDHAM
1:00 PM

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
1:00 PM

[carney2]

Carney is not the official spokesperson of Lafayette.

I guess you didn't get that memo, P4L.

[Pard4Life]

I guess you didn't get that memo, P4L.

I don't recieve the memos, I write the memos...

..oh snap.. xcoolx

[LCFan21]

Holy Cross - check the lights on the scoreboard this week
G-town puts the final nail in the coffin
Fordham has me wondering how Yale could be that bad but Marist no shot
Game of the Week

11/1 - Lafayette

[colorless raider]

The bottom rung may be generous. Georgetown had its worst execution of the season Saturday:

1. It totaled four--count em, four-- turnovers inside its own 20 Saturday that led to 24 Richmond points. Three were fumbled snaps on first down, no less, and two were on consecutive series to open the half: Richmond took all of 24 seconds to add 14 points. Georgetown averages 3.3 fumbles a game.

2. Georgetown's starting QB was 1 of 5 for one yard and three fumbles. As a team, the Hoyas managed eight yards passing because they only complted four of 11 passes.

3. Through three quarters, even with an almost all-run game, the Hoyas held the ball for only 15:48.

4. You know how bad this got? By the middle of the third quarter, the Richmond radio brodcasters stopped doing play by play! They just started interviewing former players coming through the booth and would interrupt every few minutes with time and score.

Georgetown is averaging 10.0 points per game this season. Yet Lehigh has scored fewer than 41 points just once in the last seven meetings, averaging 46.1 points a game against Georgetown since 2001.

Any chance they bring Benson back? He certaily did a better job.

[LEHIGH61]

I was counting on Holy Cross losing to LC and Colgate, so that Lehigh would have a chance to win it all by winning the last four. Now I see all this about LC-Colgate being the title game! Maybe so, but probably NOT. There is a long way to go and if Lehigh can't begin doing it by beating Colgate at home a week from Saturday, I am hopeful that Holy Cross will finish Lafayette and Colgate off. If Lehigh can spoil Colgate's plans a week from Saturday, then it is WIDE OPEN. THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO!

[FUrams7]

Congrats Lafayette. I was impressed with your O Line. They controlled FU upfront. I thought Fordham moved the ball fairly well on your defense-but a passing game in the rain and wind usually doesnt bode well. I didnt expect the one sided outcome. FU has been Jeckyl and Hide dominating Yale and URI and being soundly beaten by LU and Lafayette. ugh.. anyway I think your big uglies take you to the 1aa playoffs..

[carney2]

I was counting on Holy Cross losing to LC and Colgate, so that Lehigh would have a chance to win it all by winning the last four. Now I see all this about LC-Colgate being the title game! Maybe so, but probably NOT. There is a long way to go and if Lehigh can't begin doing it by beating Colgate at home a week from Saturday, I am hopeful that Holy Cross will finish Lafayette and Colgate off. If Lehigh can spoil Colgate's plans a week from Saturday, then it is WIDE OPEN. THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO!

I realize that you're attempting to remain hopeful, and that you're not totally objective in all of this, but it's time for a reality check as far as Lehigh Football 2008 is concerned. Take a look at the latest installment of Lehigh Football Nation

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2008/10/sundays-word-delusional.html

and then remember the words of Bill Parcells, quoted in today's Allentown Morning Call in an article about Lehigh football:

"You are what your record says you are."

http://www.mcall.com/sports/college/all-fbc-lehigh.6646545oct27,0,1259095.story

Realistically, this team is bearing down on a 4-7 season - or worse. Not the stuff that championships and playoff appearances are made of.

[Franks Tanks]

I was counting on Holy Cross losing to LC and Colgate, so that Lehigh would have a chance to win it all by winning the last four. Now I see all this about LC-Colgate being the title game! Maybe so, but probably NOT. There is a long way to go and if Lehigh can't begin doing it by beating Colgate at home a week from Saturday, I am hopeful that Holy Cross will finish Lafayette and Colgate off. If Lehigh can spoil Colgate's plans a week from Saturday, then it is WIDE OPEN. THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO!

Lehigh can start by beating someone first! That is a lot of "ifs" and "maybe" for the squaks.

[LehighFan11]

I don't think it is "delusional" as LFN has put it to think Lehigh can win the next 4 games. You have to understand Lehigh's strengths and weaknesses. I didn't give Lehigh much of a shot at beating Harvard or Holy Cross, because they are pass happy teams. I give Lehigh a legit shot at beating Colgate @ Lehigh. Lehigh 2-1 vs. Scott. He has about 300 yards rushing in the 3 games but also at around 3 yards per carry. I could be completely wrong and Colgate might rush for 500 yards and a 40 point win but I see Lehigh being much more competitive in that game then the outsiders are giving them credit for.

[Pard94]

I was counting on Holy Cross losing to LC and Colgate, so that Lehigh would have a chance to win it all by winning the last four. Now I see all this about LC-Colgate being the title game! Maybe so, but probably NOT. There is a long way to go and if Lehigh can't begin doing it by beating Colgate at home a week from Saturday, I am hopeful that Holy Cross will finish Lafayette and Colgate off. If Lehigh can spoil Colgate's plans a week from Saturday, then it is WIDE OPEN. THERE IS A LONG WAY TO GO!

Uhhh....yeah. You've been huffing the household cleaners 61? It's one thing to be hopeful, quite another to be delusional. You're saying that it is "probable" that Lehigh is suddenly going to figure out how to win against Colgate while simultaneously Lafayette, Colgate and HC all forget how to win and Lehigh sneaks in to claim the championship. I suppose it is theortically possible but then again...so is time travel. Do yourself a favor...don't bet the family farm on it.

[ColgateTD]

I give Lehigh a legit shot at beating Colgate @ Lehigh. Lehigh 2-1 vs. Scott. He has about 300 yards rushing in the 3 games but also at around 3 yards per carry. I could be completely wrong and Colgate might rush for 500 yards and a 40 point win but I see Lehigh being much more competitive in that game then the outsiders are giving them credit for.

If Scott misfires we have frosh Nate Eachus who seems to have come into his own the last couple of games and appears to be a Scott clone. We are all set at RB for the next four years with Eachus. (Scott is on the two deep now....just kidding!) Pat Simonds is the go-to big receiver we have been looking for, our huge O-line is pumping on all cylinders, Sullivan has been outstanding at QB, and the D is beginning to show life. Our special teams have not played up to par; this is our most vulnerable area. Should be an outstanding game on Saturday to see who goes to the Big Dance....xthumbsupx

[colorless raider]

Colgate in a close one
Lehigh
Holy Cross
Fordham

[TheValleyRaider]

Another good week at 3-1 puts me at 29-13 on the season with only 4 weeks left

Bucknell at Holy Cross Holy Cross Crusaders keep pace with the Lafayette/Colgate winner atop the League, biding their time to join in the fray. The Bison? Well, basketball is back

Lehigh at Georgetown Lehigh Georgetown really seems to have fallen hard in the latter stages of the season (lingering effects of the virus) after some promising opening games. Lehigh has pretty much been all over the map, but has one more win to point to. The Hoyas? Well, basketball is back

Marist at Fordham Fordham Fordham has definately underacheived this year, though they're still talented and still capable of putting points on the board. Not sure if Marist is quite the team to top the Rams, and hopefully Fordham can put their recent setbacks behind them

Lafayette at Colgate Colgate Yeah, like I was going to pick Lafayette. The Raiders are a potentially two-headed running beast with Scott and the emergent Eachus. And while I, and other Colgaters, have made noises about the weakened defense this year, they've quietly gotten better about keeping teams off the scoreboard, especially in the second half. The Raider offense, behind a strong O-Line, outlasts Lafayette in Hamilton

[LehighFan11]

Holy Cross by 24.
Lehigh by 21.
Fordham by 17.
Colgate by 4.

[LeopardFan04]

Crusaders
Mountain Hawks
Rams
Leopards

[LBPop]

Georgetown had its worst execution of the season Saturday:

I just could not pass up reminding everyone of the famous quote by a coach whose name I have forgotten. When after a terrible loss he was asked what he thought of his team's execution, he responded: "I'm all for it." :D xrolleyesx :( xsmhx xbawlingx

[TheValleyRaider]

I just could not pass up reminding everyone of the famous quote by a coach whose name I have forgotten. When after a terrible loss he was asked what he thought of his team's execution, he responded: "I'm all for it." :D xrolleyesx :( xsmhx xbawlingx

John McKay, 1976 Tampa Bay Buccaneers xthumbsupx

[letsgopards04]

Congrats Lafayette. I was impressed with your O Line. They controlled FU upfront. I thought Fordham moved the ball fairly well on your defense-but a passing game in the rain and wind usually doesnt bode well. I didnt expect the one sided outcome. FU has been Jeckyl and Hide dominating Yale and URI and being soundly beaten by LU and Lafayette. ugh.. anyway I think your big uglies take you to the 1aa playoffs..

Bend but don't break.

[DFW HOYA]

Georgetown really seems to have fallen hard in the latter stages of the season (lingering effects of the virus) after some promising opening games.

Outside of the Howard game (which doesn't look as good in retrospect), I'd say the number of promising games were a single one. By the time the Hoyas fell to Yale by 40 on Sept 20, the good times were done. It's arguable whether 2008 will end up as Georgetown's single worst season in the PL, and that's saying something.

BTW, Howard's lone win of the season came against Savannah State, a team that is playing five non-Div.I teams to shore up its record. The Tigers' next three opponents are Concordia College, Edward Waters College, and Webber International .

[LEHIGH61]

First of all, I NEVER BET ON ATHLETIC events. What I am hopeful for can happen. We're talking about Lafayette and Colgate, not Appalachian State or James Madison. They can be had , and I am merely hoping that it happens. And while I'm at it, GO GATE! this week. Then we'll just see how the rest of the season goes. It's as simple as that. Every week it's one group of athletes against another. DON't YOU BET THE FARM EITHER?

[TheValleyRaider]

Outside of the Howard game (which doesn't look as good in retrospect), I'd say the number of promising games were a single one. By the time the Hoyas fell to Yale by 40 on Sept 20, the good times were done. It's arguable whether 2008 will end up as Georgetown's single worst season in the PL, and that's saying something.

Quite possible, which is unfortunate

In retrospect, the win over Howard doesn't look so good, but it was a late comeback on the road, and that's never easy xpeacex

[Pard94]

First of all, I NEVER BET ON ATHLETIC events. What I am hopeful for can happen. We're talking about Lafayette and Colgate, not Appalachian State or James Madison. They can be had , and I am merely hoping that it happens. And while I'm at it, GO GATE! this week. Then we'll just see how the rest of the season goes. It's as simple as that. Every week it's one group of athletes against another. DON't YOU BET THE FARM EITHER?

As I said, it's one thing to be hopeful to suggest that your dream scenario is probable...that's just not the case.

[ngineer]

I don't think it is "delusional" as LFN has put it to think Lehigh can win the next 4 games. You have to understand Lehigh's strengths and weaknesses. I didn't give Lehigh much of a shot at beating Harvard or Holy Cross, because they are pass happy teams. I give Lehigh a legit shot at beating Colgate @ Lehigh. Lehigh 2-1 vs. Scott. He has about 300 yards rushing in the 3 games but also at around 3 yards per carry. I could be completely wrong and Colgate might rush for 500 yards and a 40 point win but I see Lehigh being much more competitive in that game then the outsiders are giving them credit for.

Good point. Lehigh's defense against the run has been, overall, fairly good., so our match up with the remaining teams is better than it was with Harvard and Holy Cross. Still, Clark has to make some progress in his progressions. He's forcing passes into double and triple coverage and not going to his 2 and 3 receivers. That stymied the comeback at Holy Cross.

[ngineer]

Holy Cross 38 Bucknell 24
Colgate 20 Lafayette 17
Lehigh 38 Georgetown 14
Fordham 32 Marist 14

[ColgateTD]

Holy Cross
Lehigh
Fordham
Colgate

Sorry, DFW!

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Holy Cross 45 Bucknell 20: Holy Cross shouldn't have too much trouble against an overrated Bison squad.

Fordham 32 Marist 10: Weird late season non-conference game for the Rams. Marist should give the Rams a boost after what has been a dissapointing season.

Colgate 27 Lafayette 17: I picked Colgate to win the league before the season started so i must stick by my guns. Hamilton, NY is tough this time of year and i think homefield for the Raiders makes the difference

Lehigh 42 Georgetown 7: Lehigh accomplishes nothing in a big win over a pathetic Hoya team. When will Georgetown realize they can't compete given their current circumstances?

33-9 overall

[DFW HOYA]

Lehigh 42 Georgetown 7: Lehigh accomplishes nothing in a big win over a pathetic Hoya team. When will Georgetown realize they can't compete given their current circumstances?


First, thanks for the support.

There has long been a segment of the PL fan base that has never understood Georgetown and has made little or no effort to figure out why they are where they are. As long as the Engineers, Leopards, et al. pick up an easy win, it mattes not a whit what goes on in Washington.

You ask when will Georgetown will realize their situation? Well, they realized it on January 19, 2000. That's the day when the PL accepted a team with a $450,000 budget and two full time coaches. The school knew the gap then and it knows it now. As a result, Georgetown has been remarkably patient with its place in the PL firmament, perhaps too much. No one has argued it's all about Kevin Kelly; of course, what would the Lehigh Valley be saying if Andy Coen was staring at a 4-25 record? There were people on the old PL board who felt Georgetown would turn it around with a coaching change in 2005 after going 4-7--well, they've won exactly four games since. This isn't just about coaching.

The prevailing wisdom in 2000 was that Georgetown's name could attract the type of student-athlete to be competitive in the PL within four years. IMO, they underestimated the hard constraints of need-based aid and the PL academic index to build depth, and even less ability to compete for the impact recruits that can get into other schools. They lose too many players on the higher end to the Ivies and too many on the other end to scholarship programs and lower AI teams like Fordham and Holy Cross. What's left in the middle isn't enough--the Richmond fans last week said as much. But it still comes back to the talent--good kids want to play where they can win, and win where they can play.

Eight years later, the PL leadership isn't looking to make this an issue. One and two win seasons aren't a big deal to them because it really doesn't hurt anyone else. But maybe you've got a rational suggestion in this regard, and not some sort of throwaway line like "get out of the league". The school doesn't have $5 million laying around in the budget and isn't negotiating to sell its home games to the highest bidder. But there are ideas out there. Good people can agree to disagree, only that for most opponents, it's easier to just ignore it.

Otherwise, like the PL itself, Lehigh can go back home Saturday afternoon and give it no further thought.

A win's a win, right?

[Ken_Z]

DFW, do you think the PL leadership should make this an issue? the league has been notoriously reticent to push individual schools (although there has been some improvement on this front). look at the basketball scholarship issue. okay, we approve scholarships, but will let every school set their own policy on this including a range from full allotment at HC to none at Bucknell, Colgate and Lafayette (all thee are now on board with approx 12 schollys permitted)

the league is certainly not in a postion to give ultimatums in football. look at all the discussion on the struggle to figure out how to expand. running somebody off would be worse than having a non competitive member at this time.

one issue that you confuse me on is football scholarships. you always react strongly when someone assumed that Georgetown would not support schollys, but you acknowledge that they will not invest enough to be competitive under the current rules. can you help me reconcile these views. thanks.

[DetroitFlyer]

First, thanks for the support.

There has long been a segment of the PL fan base that has never understood Georgetown and has made little or no effort to figure out why they are where they are. As long as the Engineers, Leopards, et al. pick up an easy win, it mattes not a whit what goes on in Washington.

You ask when will Georgetown will realize their situation? Well, they realized it on January 19, 2000. That's the day when the PL accepted a team with a $450,000 budget and two full time coaches. The school knew the gap then and it knows it now. As a result, Georgetown has been remarkably patient with its place in the PL firmament, perhaps too much. No one has argued it's all about Kevin Kelly; of course, what would the Lehigh Valley be saying if Andy Coen was staring at a 4-25 record? There were people on the old PL board who felt Georgetown would turn it around with a coaching change in 2005 after going 4-7--well, they've won exactly four games since. This isn't just about coaching.

The prevailing wisdom in 2000 was that Georgetown's name could attract the type of student-athlete to be competitive in the PL within four years. IMO, they underestimated the hard constraints of need-based aid and the PL academic index to build depth, and even less ability to compete for the impact recruits that can get into other schools. They lose too many players on the higher end to the Ivies and too many on the other end to scholarship programs and lower AI teams like Fordham and Holy Cross. What's left in the middle isn't enough--the Richmond fans last week said as much. But it still comes back to the talent--good kids want to play where they can win, and win where they can play.

Eight years later, the PL leadership isn't looking to make this an issue. One and two win seasons aren't a big deal to them because it really doesn't hurt anyone else. But maybe you've got a rational suggestion in this regard, and not some sort of throwaway line like "get out of the league". The school doesn't have $5 million laying around in the budget and isn't negotiating to sell its home games to the highest bidder. But there are ideas out there. Good people can agree to disagree, only that for most opponents, it's easier to just ignore it.

Otherwise, like the PL itself, Lehigh can go back home Saturday afternoon and give it no further thought.

A win's a win, right?

Georgetown would do well to seriously consider joining an expanded PFL.

[Franks Tanks]

Georgetown would do well to seriously consider joining an expanded PFL.

Are you saying Georgetown cant compete in the Patriot so they should join the PFL where they would be more competitive? Not being combatitive, just looking to understand what your reasoning may be.

[Ivytalk]

Another good week at 3-1 puts me at 29-13 on the season with only 4 weeks left

Bucknell at Holy Cross Holy Cross Crusaders keep pace with the Lafayette/Colgate winner atop the League, biding their time to join in the fray. The Bison? Well, basketball is back

Lehigh at Georgetown Lehigh Georgetown really seems to have fallen hard in the latter stages of the season (lingering effects of the virus) after some promising opening games. Lehigh has pretty much been all over the map, but has one more win to point to. The Hoyas? Well, basketball is back

Marist at Fordham Fordham Fordham has definately underacheived this year, though they're still talented and still capable of putting points on the board. Not sure if Marist is quite the team to top the Rams, and hopefully Fordham can put their recent setbacks behind them

Lafayette at Colgate Colgate Yeah, like I was going to pick Lafayette. The Raiders are a potentially two-headed running beast with Scott and the emergent Eachus. And while I, and other Colgaters, have made noises about the weakened defense this year, they've quietly gotten better about keeping teams off the scoreboard, especially in the second half. The Raider offense, behind a strong O-Line, outlasts Lafayette in Hamilton

Agree with these results.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The prevailing wisdom in 2000 was that Georgetown's name could attract the type of student-athlete to be competitive in the PL within four years. IMO, they underestimated the hard constraints of need-based aid and the PL academic index to build depth, and even less ability to compete for the impact recruits that can get into other schools. They lose too many players on the higher end to the Ivies and too many on the other end to scholarship programs and lower AI teams like Fordham and Holy Cross. What's left in the middle isn't enough--the Richmond fans last week said as much. But it still comes back to the talent--good kids want to play where they can win, and win where they can play.

Eight years later, the PL leadership isn't looking to make this an issue. One and two win seasons aren't a big deal to them because it really doesn't hurt anyone else.

DFW, I appreciate how frustrated you are with the state of affairs. But it is my belief that the situation should slowly improve with the AI reforms that happened this year. Yes, the AI system was not reformed because of Georgetown, but they will be the biggest beneficiary (by far, IMO) to the new banding system.

Why? Part of the new AI involves making a league-wide "floor". The Hoyas can now recruit a certain number of players down to that "floor". Before this year, they could not - they were limited by the AI.

I'm not saying that Georgetown is out of the woods thanks to one change by the league office. But IMO they will have an important tool available to give them a shot to be more competitive in the league. It's up to the AD to take that lifeline, or not.

I'm going to be off on vacation next week, but watch for a (long-awaited) blog posting popping up on my blog next week attempting to explain the new banding system for football. (Thank heavens for "scheduled postings!")

[DetroitFlyer]

Are you saying Georgetown cant compete in the Patriot so they should join the PFL where they would be more competitive? Not being combatitive, just looking to understand what your reasoning may be.


A tale of two teams. Both teams joined new conferences in 2001. By most measures of head to head competition, both teams have been pretty even. One team won three games in the series, the other team won four games. In the series, the team with three wins had 134 points, the team with four wins had 151 points. All in all, pretty even....

Since joining their new conferences, one team is 35-41. The other team is 23-70. Granted, neither is all that impressive, but if you had to choose one of those records for your team, we all know which one you would choose.

The Teams?

Davidson and Georgetown.

[Franks Tanks]

A tale of two teams. Both teams joined new conferences in 2001. By most measures of head to head competition, both teams have been pretty even. One team won three games in the series, the other team won four games. In the series, the team with three wins had 134 points, the team with four wins had 151 points. All in all, pretty even....

Since joining their new conferences, one team is 35-41. The other team is 23-70. Granted, neither is all that impressive, but if you had to choose one of those records for your team, we all know which one you would choose.

The Teams?

Davidson and Georgetown.

But you didnt answer my question really. The PFL would be a much worse fit geographically for G-town and they would have less in the way of rivalries then current. Basically the only reason G-Twon would have to joing the PFL is to be able to compete on a more even playing field- is that what you are saying?

[LUHawker]

Well, my record for the year and my rationale for a better record for Lehigh this year are both in jeopardy (there is some linkage there). My expectation that Lehigh would do better than 1-4 in tight games has been torpedoed by the 3 losses in the final minute. Anyway, here are my picks for the week.


BUCKNELL @ HOLY CROSS - HC's offense is that good, and Bucknell's is not good enough to make this a shoot-out

LEHIGH @ GEORGETOWN - Some are saying this is the worst Lehigh team they've seen in 30 years. I disagree and also say that Lehigh is still far better than GTown

Marist @ FORDHAM - Fordham is having a disappointing year and Marist will keep this competitive, but not enough to win.
1:00 PM

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE - One of the top two games of the year for determining the PL champ. Colgate has improved throughout the year and Lafayette seems to be hitting its stride. This is a tough call, but I'm going with the home team (and not because I wear Brown & White).

[Ken_Z]

A tale of two teams. Both teams joined new conferences in 2001. By most measures of head to head competition, both teams have been pretty even. One team won three games in the series, the other team won four games. In the series, the team with three wins had 134 points, the team with four wins had 151 points. All in all, pretty even....

Since joining their new conferences, one team is 35-41. The other team is 23-70. Granted, neither is all that impressive, but if you had to choose one of those records for your team, we all know which one you would choose.

The Teams?

Davidson and Georgetown.

i would agree that the two teams are relatively even over that time period in talent, but aren't most of Davidson's "extra" wins over non D1 teams? who still prefers the better record if that is how it is achieved? if you like that better, drop the whole program to D3 and have even more success.

[letsgopards04]

I think that the league needs to take a more active role in helping Georgetown improve. I don't know how but the league is only as strong as the weakest team which now that the pards have decided to keep football, is Georgetown.

[DFW HOYA]

To answer the point above, football is the only sport among the 29 at Georgetown to have a scholarship barrier placed on it. The school can philosophically support scholarships even if it cannot fully fund them. Almost all sports at GU are not fully funded, including most of the 23 Big East teams.

The league is not going to be enforcing minimum equivalency limits, but LFN's point on the AI is a good one. If you can't get them accepted, regardless of whether it's a need or grant, you don't improve. If this were a case where Georgetown had superrior talent across the lines and was still losing by 28 a game, that's one thing, but no one is arguing that point.

And Davidson? Since 2000, Davidson is 43-36, with 17 of these wins coming against sub-DI schools. Georgetown played no sub-Division I teams in this same period.

[Franks Tanks]

This is not even an argument.

Since 2000, Davidson is 43-36, with 17 of these wins coming against sub-DI schools. Georgetown played no sub-Division I teams in this same period.

Now you are just going to confuse him with facts and logical points.

[WildPard]

DFW-Hope your situation improves and Georgetown comes around-it will only make the PL stronger. I'm not sure how close you are to the program, but someone close to me went thru the recruiting process with them this past year. As compared to the other five PL schools he was recruited by, Georgetown's recruiting strategy/methodology was horrendous. No home or high school visit (all 5 others did so and 3 even came to basketball games), limited contact with the recruit (all others called at least once per week and emailed or sent regular mail frequently), very little literature/propaganda sent home (volumes sent by other PL teams), only one call from the head coach (multiple contacts with the other PL head coaches), etc. This was how they handled the prospect that the recruiting coach and oline coach said was their top oline recruit. He was invited to and went to a home game (with only about 1500 in attendance) and he actually got more attention from the visiting PL head coach and assistants before and after the game. While on campus with a few other recruits, they were all stunned by the lack of attention and formal program set up for the recruits and parents. I can bet none of the others selected G'town either. He did get a campus tour from an attractive coed, but that was about it--very little pre and post game interaction with the staff.

[carney2]

The Georgetown "situation" deserves its own thread, and probably after the end of the season when we can give it some attention. I don't pretend to understand even a little of it. DFW is the guy with all the facts, and considered opinions, so I will count on him to educate us when the time comes. I am only getting more and more confused as I read this thread.

[DetroitFlyer]

Now you are just going to confuse him with facts and logical points.

So.... Davidson has won games while Georgetown has lost games.... Yeah, real hard logic to understand, (maybe for PL fans, xlolx )....

Here is a clue.... Casual fans at your school do not give a rat's a-- if you play sub-Division I games.... They do, however, understand the won / lost thing.... People in the general community that might come out to support the team also do not give a rat's a-- if you are playing Holy Cross or Lenoir Rhyne. They do care that you never win any games, and let's face it, who is going to go out of their way to watch the local team lose every week besides the parents of the players and a few hard core fans?

23-70 in the Patriot League.... I wonder how many Georgetown fans or even potential Georgetown fans feel good about all 70 losses coming to "Division I" teams.... Glad you guys do, maybe you can invite about 10,000 of your like-minded friends to the next Georgetown game and pack the place. Good luck with that....

[Franks Tanks]

So.... Davidson has won games while Georgetown has lost games.... Yeah, real hard logic to understand, (maybe for PL fans, xlolx )....

Here is a clue.... Casual fans at your school do not give a rat's a-- if you play sub-Division I games.... They do, however, understand the won / lost thing.... People in the general community that might come out to support the team also do not give a rat's a-- if you are playing Holy Cross or Lenoir Rhyne. They do care that you never win any games, and let's face it, who is going to go out of their way to watch the local team lose every week besides the parents of the players and a few hard core fans?

23-70 in the Patriot League.... I wonder how many Georgetown fans or even potential Georgetown fans feel good about all 70 losses coming to "Division I" teams.... Glad you guys do, maybe you can invite about 10,000 of your like-minded friends to the next Georgetown game and pack the place. Good luck with that....


You continue to skirt the issue. All I am asking is why do you believe Georgetown should join the PFL? Again it seems you are saying it will be a fit as they will be able to win more games, but I dont want to put words in your mouth. Is this your position?

[crusader11]

They lose too many players on the higher end to the Ivies and too many on the other end to scholarship programs and lower AI teams like Fordham and Holy Cross.

Good one. Holy Cross with a low AI? I know for a fact that Coach Gilmore goes to battle with the Admissions office trying to get prospective football players into school. Fordham, yes, they absolutely have lower standards, not really sure though where you are getting the idea HC has a low AI.

[RichH2]

Crusader11
he said lower AI not "low", no one in PL has "low" AI GU has about the highest however

[RichH2]

I look forward to LFN's explanation of the new banding and AI sceme for the PL. I know it includes a league wide floor which will help Georgetown and Lehigh and some others to reach kids they could not recruit recently.
Other than that it would be nice to see one comprehensive review of the new system, as what I have read so far is a bit contradictory.

[Franks Tanks]

I look forward to LFN's explanation of the new banding and AI sceme for the PL. I know it includes a league wide floor which will help Georgetown and Lehigh and some others to reach kids they could not recruit recently.
Other than that it would be nice to see one comprehensive review of the new system, as what I have read so far is a bit contradictory.

Get out of town. Lehigh's average SAT score is like 20 points higher then Lafayette's --totally insignificant when it comes to AI. Colgate avergare SAT's are higher then Lehigh's I believe--they do ok. Georgetown is the ONLY league school that deals with a higher AI then the rest of the league schools I believe.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Get out of town. Lehigh's average SAT score is like 20 points higher then Lafayette's --totally insignificant when it comes to AI. Colgate avergare SAT's are higher then Lehigh's I believe--they do ok. Georgetown is the ONLY league school that deals with a higher AI then the rest of the league schools I believe.

The AI has very little to do with the Hoya's problems IMO. It's poor facilities and the fact the school shows they care little about the program itself. The AI is just an excuse IMO.

[RichH2]

Franks
I was not comparing Lehigh and Lafayette, nor saying that our slump over the last few years was caused solely by the AI. I merely think a PL floor will help LU's recruiting also Lafayettes

[Franks Tanks]

The AI has very little to do with the Hoya's problems IMO. It's poor facilities and the fact the school shows they care little about the program itself. The AI is just an excuse IMO.

That may be true. The AI arguement is also a excuse that some Lehigh folks are throwing arund as well.

[Franks Tanks]

Franks
I was not comparing Lehigh and Lafayette, nor saying that our slump over the last few years was caused solely by the AI. I merely think a PL floor will help LU's recruiting also Lafayettes

That makes sense. I have heard other arguements that state that Lehigh cant get players because of the AI. I agree that it would be good for the league. Sorry I misunderstood your point-- I so agree with this.

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

That may be true. The AI arguement is also a excuse that some Lehigh folks are throwing arund as well.

I'm not one of those. The AI is pretty stupid but the Hoya fans are being naive if they think that it's their biggest problem. My alma mater is the only school in college football history to get kicked out of conference due to poor performance and lack of institutional support. I don't blame the Big East one bit for kicking Temple out. I think Georgetown is much like we were. Unless Georgetown really steps up they have zero business being in the PL based in school support and facilities. I don't buy the Georgetown name is great for the league either. It's a great school with a proud bball tradition but has zero cache when it comes to football.

[LBPop]

No one has argued it's all about Kevin Kelly; of course, what would the Lehigh Valley be saying if Andy Coen was staring at a 4-25 record? There were people on the old PL board who felt Georgetown would turn it around with a coaching change in 2005 after going 4-7--well, they've won exactly four games since. This isn't just about coaching.

I agree with DFW that it's not all about the coaching. Having written that, I do believe that the AD got it wrong at the worst possible time. Coach Benson took the program to a point where they could join a league like the PL and he was able to put the Hoyas in position to compete. In this business coaches get stale and sometimes they just need to move on. That happened to Benson when he made a fatal hiring mistake with his OC. When Benson left, the next coach had to be the one to help Georgetown make the next big leap...more mediocrity (or worse) would not be acceptable. Sadly, a well intentioned but in my opinion overmatched man was hired. He has made many mistakes (some understandable and some unforgivable) and several of these were not simple football decisions. It was easy for the new AD to make a change in 2005 because Benson wasn't "his guy". I will now be very interested to see what happens if/when the 2008 Hoyas finish Coach Kelly's first three seasons with what I believe will be the fewest wins in that amount of time in modern Georgetown history.

[hc12]

LAFAYETTE @ COLGATE
Suck it up, Holy Cross and the one loss pretenders; THIS is the game for the league championship and the autobid. The game of the year in the Patriot League! Two teams on a roll

bucknell 21 HC 45
LEHIGH 21 georgetown 14
marist 17 FORDHAM 28


FOR THE PATRIOT LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP/ CARNEY2 TROPHY
LAFAYETTE 21 COLGATE 24 "crown their ass"

[carney2]

The "line" for this week:

HOLY CROSS 22 over BUCKNELL

LEHIGH 17 1/2 over GEORGETOWN

FORDHAM 12 1/2 over Marist

LAFAYETTE 5 1/2 over COLGATE

[colorless raider]

The "line" for this week:

HOLY CROSS 22 over BUCKNELL

LEHIGH 17 1/2 over GEORGETOWN

FORDHAM 12 1/2 over Marist

LAFAYETTE 5 1/2 over COLGATE

Take HC and give the points, the Bison are beat up.
Take the Engineers cause G'town ain't got it.
Edge to Fordham
I'll take Gate with the points.....

[colgate13]

Regardless of the outcome it should be a nice atmosphere in Hamilton this weekend. It is a late Family Weekend so the crowd should be one of if not the largest of the year and the weather should be sunny but low 40s for some 'football' weather.

Go 'gate! Make us proud!

[Bogus Megapardus]

To answer the point above, football is the only sport among the 29 at Georgetown to have a scholarship barrier placed on it. The school can philosophically support scholarships even if it cannot fully fund them. Almost all sports at GU are not fully funded, including most of the 23 Big East teams.

The league is not going to be enforcing minimum equivalency limits, but LFN's point on the AI is a good one. If you can't get them accepted, regardless of whether it's a need or grant, you don't improve. If this were a case where Georgetown had superrior talent across the lines and was still losing by 28 a game, that's one thing, but no one is arguing that point.

And Davidson? Since 2000, Davidson is 43-36, with 17 of these wins coming against sub-DI schools. Georgetown played no sub-Division I teams in this same period.


What a difference it would make were Georgetown to decide to become a "full" member of the Patriot League in all sports. The absurdity of such a thing to Hoya fans is acknowledged. Loyalists would snicker and deride such a move.

But what's more likely - Army and Navy committing to football in the PL with two or three national BCS games each season, or Georgetown relegating its other sports to such a move?

It would be mutually exclusive, of course. I know how I would vote.



Regardless of the outcome it should be a nice atmosphere in Hamilton this weekend. It is a late Family Weekend so the crowd should be one of if not the largest of the year and the weather should be sunny but low 40s for some 'football' weather.

Go 'gate! Make us proud!

I just put new tires on the ol' PT Crusier for the drive. I hope you can guarantee sunshine in Hamilton this weekend.

[DFW HOYA]

But what's more likely - Army and Navy committing to football in the PL with two or three national BCS games each season, or Georgetown relegating its other sports to such a move?


Welcome, Army and Navy.... xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Welcome, Army and Navy.... xlolx

"Other sports" is a crypic anagram for "Ewing-legacy basketball," of course . . .

. . . does Georgetown play any other sports?

[LehighFan11]

Why does every thread about the Patriot League turn into a discussion about AI's and scholarships?

[DFW HOYA]

. . . does Georgetown play any other sports?

29...more than any other PL school and more than any I-AA school outside the Ivies.

Years ago, the PL turned down inquiries from Georgetown about parking some of its less competitive sports in the PL. Georgetown is not returning to that strategy and neither is the PL, a league that turns away interest from schools as it searches for the "right" choice that is always just beyond the horizon.

[Pard94]

Why does every thread about the Patriot League turn into a discussion about AI's and scholarships?

I don't know but I want to stick pencils in my eyes everytime it does. It is excruciatingly boring.

[HoyaMetanoia]

Welcome, Army and Navy.... xlolx

Obviously agreed. Many people don't realize it, because they're not high profile sports, but Georgetown has top 25 caliber teams in Men's and Women's Soccer and Men's and Women's Cross Country, and that's just in the fall.

But let's not get started on the AI and equivalency arguments that would come up if Army and Navy joined the conference for football...

[Ken_Z]

back to the games:

BUCKNELL 28 @ HOLY CROSS 42: Bucknell cannot contain the Crusader offense, but put up some points with a few Hail Mary plays of their own

LEHIGH 27 @ GEORGETOWN 6: after another devestating loss, Georgetown's administration announces they are going full scholarship, but will not fund them. they believe this will help the team turn the corner within the next five years.

Marist 14 @ FORDHAM 35: Fordham takes out their season of frustrations on a future PFL team. DetroitFlyer comes to the Red foxes defense stating, "by joining the PFL and scheduling two non D1 games a year from now on, Marist will have a better record than Fordham over the next five-an-one-half years. whose fans will be happier then?"

LAFAYETTE 24 @ COLGATE 27: Colgate punches a hole in the roof of the CarneyDome.

[DetroitFlyer]

back to the games:

BUCKNELL 28 @ HOLY CROSS 42: Bucknell cannot contain the Crusader offense, but put up some points with a few Hail Mary plays of their own

LEHIGH 27 @ GEORGETOWN 6: after another devestating loss, Georgetown's administration announces they are going full scholarship, but will not fund them. they believe this will help the team turn the corner within the next five years.

Marist 14 @ FORDHAM 35: Fordham takes out their season of frustrations on a future PFL team. DetroitFlyer comes to the Red foxes defense stating, "by joining the PFL and scheduling two non D1 games a year from now on, Marist will have a better record than Fordham over the next five-an-one-half years. whose fans will be happier then?"

LAFAYETTE 24 @ COLGATE 27: Colgate punches a hole in the roof of the CarneyDome.

Speaking of fans, which team has drawn more fans since joining new leagues in 2001, Davidson or Georgetown?

[Franks Tanks]

Speaking of fans, which team has drawn more fans since joining new leagues in 2001, Davidson or Georgetown?

I am sure Davidson has greater attendance. How long did it take you to find that nugget? Georgetown has the lowest attendance in the PL, why dont you be fair and compare it to the team with lowest attendance in the PFL?

Also attendance doesnt equal success on the field

[Pard94]

I am sure Davidson has greater attendance. How long did it take you to find that nugget? Georgetown has the lowest attendance in the PL, why dont you be fair and compare it to the team with lowest attendance in the PFL?

Also attendance doesnt equal success on the field


And when you're done with that why don't you stop comparing Dayton to Georgetown in any regard. They're Georgetown...you're Dayton. Enough said.

[DetroitFlyer]

And when you're done with that why don't you stop comparing Dayton to Georgetown in any regard. They're Georgetown...you're Dayton. Enough said.

Huh? Please, I beg you to find any place in this thread where I have compared "Dayton" to "Georgetown".... I really like to give PL fans the benefit of the doubt because it is certainly reported that PL schools are somewhat above average academic institutions, but you guys are really making it difficult....

To be honest, I do not know the attendance numbers for Davidson and Georgetown since 2001.... They may be out there somewhere, but I have not looked for them.... Interesting how you simply assumed that Davidson draws better....xnodx If true, it seems as though Davidson's schedule is not hurting them relative to attendance as compared to Georgetown.... So, one could probably say that if Georgetown joined the PFL, their attendance would not suffer one iota.... Interesting!

[LehighFan11]

With how often DetriotFlyer posts on Patriot League threads, you'd sware Dayton was in the PL. xsmiley_wix

[Franks Tanks]

Huh? Please, I beg you to find any place in this thread where I have compared "Dayton" to "Georgetown".... I really like to give PL fans the benefit of the doubt because it is certainly reported that PL schools are somewhat above average academic institutions, but you guys are really making it difficult....

To be honest, I do not know the attendance numbers for Davidson and Georgetown since 2001.... They may be out there somewhere, but I have not looked for them.... Interesting how you simply assumed that Davidson draws better....xnodx If true, it seems as though Davidson's schedule is not hurting them relative to attendance as compared to Georgetown.... So, one could probably say that if Georgetown joined the PFL, their attendance would not suffer one iota.... Interesting!


I sound like a broken record, but you still havent explained why Georgetown would be better off in the PFL? Georgetown at least has two tradition rivals, Holy Cross and Fordham, to play in the PL, and the geography is a much better fit.

There may be a very some very compelling reasons for Georgetown to join the PFL, but I would really like you to articulate them.

So far we have just one
1.) G-Town would have the same attendance. That is a wash not a reason to move.

[Pard94]

With how often DetriotFlyer posts on Patriot League threads, you'd sware Dayton was in the PL. xsmiley_wix

Wishful thinking on his part.

[letsgopards04]

I sound like a broken record, but you still havent explained why Georgetown would be better off in the PFL? Georgetown at least has two tradition rivals, Holy Cross and Fordham, to play in the PL, and the geography is a much better fit.

There may be a very some very compelling reasons for Georgetown to join the PFL, but I would really like you to articulate them.

So far we have just one
1.) G-Town would have the same attendance. That is a wash not a reason to move.


PFL has weaker competition top to bottom. An Georgetown could play D3 schools.

[Franks Tanks]

PFL has weaker competition top to bottom. An Georgetown could play D3 schools.

I know that the reason I want to hear him say it, xpeacex so I can hold it against him in future discussions. He wont say it however, too stubborn.

[DFW HOYA]

Speaking of fans, which team has drawn more fans since joining new leagues in 2001, Davidson or Georgetown?

Georgetown's temporary field is half the size of Davidson's Richardson Stadium. Georgetown averages 2,448 in a 2,400 seat footprint (102% capacity), which is about the best it should expect right now.

No one at Georgetown is talking about the Pioneer or playing sub-DI schools. Its future non-conference opponents through 2012 are Richmond, Old Dominion, Howard, and Yale.

[DetroitFlyer]

PFL has weaker competition top to bottom. An Georgetown could play D3 schools.

http://daytonflyers.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/092207aaa.html

http://fordhamsports.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/110307aaa.html

I do not think that top to bottom the PFL is on equal footing with the PL, but I do believe that our top teams, in any given season, can hang with ANY PL team. Wait a minute, I seem to recall my Flyers proving that last season....xlolx

Is there any reason why Georgetown could not play Division III teams today? Does the Patriot League have rules against playing lower division teams?

[RichH2]

Does the PFL have its own board? If not we should start one so that not every PL thread gets hijacked. I meanreally Lafayette already hijacks them anyway LOL

[DetroitFlyer]

Does the PFL have its own board? If not we should start one so that not every PL thread gets hijacked. I meanreally Lafayette already hijacks them anyway LOL

http://www.geocities.com/lurkingd/

http://pflfan.proboards26.com/index.cgi?board=general

Feel free to come and join us! All we do there is talk about how much we want to be either in the PL or just like the PL....xlolx

[LBPop]

Regardless of the outcome it should be a nice atmosphere in Hamilton this weekend. It is a late Family Weekend so the crowd should be one of if not the largest of the year and the weather should be sunny but low 40s for some 'football' weather.

Hamilton might have been the most beautiful setting I visited to see a Patriot League football game in my four years as a PL Dad. It was sunny, crisp and the scenery was phenomenal. I did have a little trouble though when I tried to find the Nordstrom's. ;)

And I was glad that I couldn't.xnodx

[bison137]

Originally Posted by DetroitFlyer
Speaking of fans, which team has drawn more fans since joining new leagues in 2001, Davidson or Georgetown?



I am sure Davidson has greater attendance. How long did it take you to find that nugget? Georgetown has the lowest attendance in the PL, why dont you be fair and compare it to the team with lowest attendance in the PFL?




Since 2001, here is how Davidson's average attendance compares to the three lowest attendance schools in the PL other than Georgetown (who obviously is constrained by a 2500 seat stadium):

Bucknell 5183
Colgate 4710
Fordham 4375
Davidson 2866


For 2001-06 (2007 conference attendance not shown on NCAA site), here is the average attendance for the Patriot League (including Georgetown's 2000+ per game) and for the PFL:


Patriot League: 5459
Pioneer League: 3389

(note: PL average is greater than 6000 excl Georgetown)

[CrusaderBob]

WOW! 92 posts on this thread about PL Week 10 and only 14 have actually picked the games!

We interrupt this discussion of Georegtown's football woes to bring you these picks.

Last week: 3 - 1
Year to Date: 29 - 11

Only one real tough game to pick. Results may not match the on-paper probabilities, but you can't resist what the paper says this week ...

Holy Cross
Lehigh
Fordham

And the tough game to pick:

Of the 14 picks thus far:

Surprisingly - 4 Lafayette fans pick ... Lafayette
Shockingly - 3 Colgate fans pick ... Colgate
Amazingly - 4 Lehigh fans pick ... Colgate

Leaving 3 truly impartial fans (1 HC, 1 Bucknell, and 1 Harvard) to pick.

All 3 went with Colgate.

Lafayette is the better balanced team between run and pass, offensively and defensively. But man are they injured. With a hobbled Romans and a limping backfield I don't think the Leopards wil stop Scott & Eachus or generate enough offense, even against a less than stellar Raider defense.

Colgate wins a close one.

[LCFan21]

WOW! 92 posts on this thread about PL Week 10 and only 14 have actually picked the games!

We interrupt this discussion of Georegtown's football woes to bring you these picks.

Last week: 3 - 1
Year to Date: 29 - 11

Only one real tough game to pick. Results may not match the on-paper probabilities, but you can't resist what the paper says this week ...

Holy Cross
Lehigh
Fordham

And the tough game to pick:

Of the 14 picks thus far:

Surprisingly - 4 Lafayette fans pick ... Lafayette
Shockingly - 3 Colgate fans pick ... Colgate
Amazingly - 4 Lehigh fans pick ... Colgate

Leaving 3 truly impartial fans (1 HC, 1 Bucknell, and 1 Harvard) to pick.

All 3 went with Colgate.

Lafayette is the better balanced team between run and pass, offensively and defensively. But man are they injured. With a hobbled Romans and a limping backfield I don't think the Leopards wil stop Scott & Eachus or generate enough offense, even against a less than stellar Raider defense.

Colgate wins a close one.

BEST POST IN THREAD! LC vs. Colgate should be a good one. Always fun when two league teams on a roll play each other. I think most fans of the PL love grudge matches decided down in the trenches when the stakes are high. LC Depth will surprise once again!

[bison137]

HC
LU
Ford
CU

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Holy Cross 45 Bucknell 20: Holy Cross shouldn't have too much trouble against an overrated Bison squad.

Fordham 32 Marist 10: Weird late season non-conference game for the Rams. Marist should give the Rams a boost after what has been a dissapointing season.

Colgate 27 Lafayette 17: I picked Colgate to win the league before the season started so i must stick by my guns. Hamilton, NY is tough this time of year and i think homefield for the Raiders makes the difference

Lehigh 42 Georgetown 7: Lehigh accomplishes nothing in a big win over a pathetic Hoya team. When will Georgetown realize they can't compete given their current circumstances?

33-9 overall

37-9 after another perfect week!!! Anyone else keeping track of their record?

[CrusaderBob]

BEST POST IN THREAD! LC vs. Colgate should be a good one. Always fun when two league teams on a roll play each other. I think most fans of the PL love grudge matches decided down in the trenches when the stakes are high. LC Depth will surprise once again!

Thank you LCFan21.

And not to sound greedy, no rep points for the best post out of 90+??? xsmiley_wix

[HoyaMetanoia]

Georgetown's temporary field is half the size of Davidson's Richardson Stadium. Georgetown averages 2,448 in a 2,400 seat footprint (102% capacity), which is about the best it should expect right now.

No one at Georgetown is talking about the Pioneer or playing sub-DI schools. Its future non-conference opponents through 2012 are Richmond, Old Dominion, Howard, and Yale.

Isn't Davidson also on the schedule for next year?

Even with a completed MSF, I don't see the Hoyas drawing more than (a reported, not necessarily actual) 2,500 a game. And certainly not with the direction we're heading in.

[DFW HOYA]

Isn't Davidson also on the schedule for next year? Even with a completed MSF, I don't see the Hoyas drawing more than (a reported, not necessarily actual) 2,500 a game. And certainly not with the direction we're heading in.

I thought Davidson was coming on board, but I've also heard Richmond may be back sooner than expected, so it's not clear.

I don't see status quo going into 2009. Not a single assistant's position changed between 2007 and 2008 and that's rare in coaching circles, even rarer for a 1-10 team. If this team finishes out 1-9 (minus Colgate), that's a hard sell for next season.