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woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 01:38 PM
If Davidson is going to have a football team, they need to make it either play in the SoCon, or remove them from the conference alltogether.I don't even know what that non-scholly league than Davidson is in is called, but I do know that a lot of its other members are in non-football playing leagues in other sports. The difference is that Davidson chose to join a football-playing league, and they should therefore have to play football in it if they are going to field a football team. If they still choose not to offer football scholorships and just accept a sound beating every Saturday in the fall, well, that's there perrogative. But to just let them be in the SoCon to dominate it in basketball (and be able to do so because they are not spending money on football), is dumb to me. To stay in the conference, they need to either join the rest of the league out on the gridiron, or drop football altogether (something theat got ETSU banished, by the way, yet we let Davidson do what they are doing. You could say that College of Charleston and UNC-Greensboro don't belong in the conference either, but the difference between them and Davidson is that they have never had a football team, while Davidson does have one and still refuses to play it in the SoCon with the rest of us.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 01:39 PM
I also think that one day, Chattanooga (basically has always been a basketball-first school), will try to pull a Davidson and drop scholorships from football if they continue to stuggle so.

elcid96
October 16th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Been making this point for years.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 01:41 PM
Well, it is a good point to make, athough futile because nothing is going to change.

elon77
October 16th, 2008, 01:42 PM
If Davidson is going to have a football team, they need to make it either play in the SoCon, or remove them from the conference alltogether.I don't even know what that non-scholly league than Elon is in is called, but I do know that a lot of its other members are in non-football playing leagues in other sports. The difference is that Davidson chose to join a football-playing league, and they should therefore have to play football in it if they are going to field a football team. If they still choose not to offer football scholorships and just accept a sound beating every Saturday in the fall, well, that's there perrogative. But to just let them be in the SoCon to dominate it in basketball (and be able to do so because they are not spending money on football), is dumb to me. To stay in the conference, they need to either join the rest of the league out on the gridiron, or drop football altogether (something theat got ETSU banished, by the way, yet we let Davidson do what they are doing. You could say that College of Charleston and UNC-Greensboro don't belong in the conference either, but the difference between them and Davidson is that they have never had a football team, while Davidson does have one and still refuses to play it in the SoCon with the rest of us.

Elon is in a non scholly league. What in the hell are you talking about?xconfusedx

appfan2008
October 16th, 2008, 01:45 PM
would love to see davidson actually step up and participate with the rest of us... they certainly have the money

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 01:46 PM
Elon is in a non scholly league. What in the hell are you talking about?xconfusedx

Calm down...just a typo. I fixed it. I guess I was still thinking about Elon since I posted about Elon's team and how tough they looked right before I posted that.

citdog
October 16th, 2008, 01:50 PM
either play SoCon Football or get the hell OUT!

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 01:56 PM
Davidson Football, an oxymoron if there ever was onexnodx

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:00 PM
Yeah. I'll bet I could run for a 50-yard touchdown on an option play against their "D" myself.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:04 PM
Just for fun, I would like to see Wofford schedule them ONCE. Just for laughs...They could've been our 12th game this year. We have 11 games and had 2 open dates this year. They would have been better than nothing...a "tuneup" or a "skills-honing exhibition" if you will. We could've run it up against them like they did us on the court lst year where they still had Stephon Curry in the game late in a blowout and he was still shooting. I don't like that school very much.

Wofford 98
Davidson 0

yorkcountyUNHfan
October 16th, 2008, 02:06 PM
This is great.....good points!!

And along those same lines, JMU,RU,W&M,and DU need to send a team up to the Whit and the Alfond this winter for a sound beating in hockey:D

DetroitFlyer
October 16th, 2008, 02:08 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood!xnodx Outside of Davidson, I did not know the SoCon even played basketball.xlolx OK, maybe not entirely true as I seem to recall App State winning a few games a year or two ago....

Davidson is a proud member of the Pioneer Football Conference and we are darn proud to have em! In fact, Dayton plays FOOTBALL at Davidson this coming Saturday. If you were smart, you would get to Davidson on Saturday to see some real, FCS football played, not that FBS wannabee pretender ball the SoCon trys to push!xnodx

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:08 PM
I get it... those schools probably don't have hockey teams. And you are saying that Davidson doesn't have a REAL football team. I know. But I still think it would be fun to do that to them and beat their basketball score against us...just once!

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood


If you were smart, you would get to Davidson on Saturday to see some real, FCS football played, not that FBS wannabee pretender ball the SoCon trys to push!xnodx

You have GOT to be joking! Or on drugs or something. We could beat Davidson 100-0 if we wanted to!

And we are a small private school with limited resourses. Because we go all out for a winning football team, there is not much left in the checkbook for basketball (although we still manage to win some league games...we are not the worst SoCon program). But my point is, you don't see us asking out of the SoCon for basketball to play in an inferior basketball conference, which is precisely what Davidson has done. By the way, this is off topic, but I don't think Stephon will have half the career his dad Dell had in the NBA...he just seems too scrawny.

elcid96
October 16th, 2008, 02:16 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood!xnodx Outside of Davidson, I did not know the SoCon even played basketball.xlolx OK, maybe not entirely true as I seem to recall App State winning a few games a year or two ago....

Davidson is a proud member of the Pioneer Football Conference and we are darn proud to have em! In fact, Dayton plays FOOTBALL at Davidson this coming Saturday. If you were smart, you would get to Davidson on Saturday to see some real, FCS football played, not that FBS wannabee pretender ball the SoCon trys to push!xnodx

Davidson does not play real FCS football. That is like saying T-ball is playing professional baseball.

jonmac
October 16th, 2008, 02:18 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood!xnodx Outside of Davidson, I did not know the SoCon even played basketball.xlolx OK, maybe not entirely true as I seem to recall App State winning a few games a year or two ago....

Davidson is a proud member of the Pioneer Football Conference and we are darn proud to have em! In fact, Dayton plays FOOTBALL at Davidson this coming Saturday. If you were smart, you would get to Davidson on Saturday to see some real, FCS football played, not that FBS wannabee pretender ball the SoCon trys to push!xnodx

Napolean complex?

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 02:25 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood!xnodx Outside of Davidson, I did not know the SoCon even played basketball.xlolx OK, maybe not entirely true as I seem to recall App State winning a few games a year or two ago....

Davidson is a proud member of the Pioneer Football Conference and we are darn proud to have em! In fact, Dayton plays FOOTBALL at Davidson this coming Saturday. If you were smart, you would get to Davidson on Saturday to see some real, FCS football played, not that FBS wannabee pretender ball the SoCon trys to push!xnodx

You can have them. We got tired of beating them by 66 points every yearxrolleyesx

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:47 PM
In the old SoCon, was Davidson worse than VMI?

WildPard
October 16th, 2008, 02:51 PM
I'm not an expert on the subject, but here are a few reasons Davidson may not want to completely tie themselves to the SoCon.

1. woffordgrad94's amazing grasp of the English language--"alltogether", "theat", "perrogative", "resourses", "otion play", etc, etc.....

2. Two more profound oxymorons

"Furman academics" and "Citadel military school"

However, I do like woffordgrad94's logic--we can't touch you in basketball, so let's play them in football.

appmaj
October 16th, 2008, 02:55 PM
I'm not an expert on the subject, but here are a few reasons Davidson may not want to completely tie themselves to the SoCon.

1. woffordgrad94's amazing grasp of the English language--"alltogether", "theat", "perrogative", "resourses", "otion play", etc, etc.....

2. Two more profound oxymorons

"Furman academics" and "THECitadel military school"

However, I do like woffordgrad94's logic--we can't touch you in basketball, so let's play them in football.

Fixed this for you grammar cop; before Citdog gets here to do it.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 02:57 PM
Yeah, I guess I'm just stupid. After all, no one else ever makes typos. xrolleyesx

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 03:00 PM
I'm not an expert on the subject, but here are a few reasons Davidson may not want to completely tie themselves to the SoCon.

1. woffordgrad94's amazing grasp of the English language--"alltogether", "theat", "perrogative", "resourses", "otion play", etc, etc.....

2. Two more profound oxymorons

"Furman academics" and "Citadel military school"

However, I do like woffordgrad94's logic--we can't touch you in basketball, so let's play them in football.


Oh boy another egghead grammar and spelling nazi. I'm impressed. I do have a better reason though. The last scores against a school that I am sure closely matches in academics the school with a funny french name.

FU listed first Davidson listed last

58-3
59-0
58-7
55-7
55-7
63-14

Man, Davidson was really competitive. I am surprised they didn't stay in the Pansy League with you guysxrolleyesx

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 03:13 PM
Yeah, I guess I'm just stupid. After all, no one else ever makes typos. xrolleyesx

I'm sure there is a spelling bee message board somewhere on the internet that he can nerd out onxlolx

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 03:16 PM
The ironic thing is that he's an Appalachian State fan...they are often among the ones calling us Wofford and Furman people nerds, and now HE'S being a major one! :D xlolx

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 03:19 PM
The ironic thing is that he's an Appalachian State fan...they are often among the ones calling us Wofford and Furman people nerds, and now HE'S being a major one! :D xlolx

Oh that explains it. My sincere apologies to all Leopard fans:o I should have known that typically classy bunch would not have posted something so idioticxrotatehx

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM
Getting back to Davidson, it's not like they have blown us out everytime we've played them, as some of you probably think. We've actually had some close games with them-they could NEVER play us close in football right now though. AActually, the game at Wofford last year was the only one in the series I remember being a complete and total blowout, and they really rubbed it in, too. One player even gave the SHHHHHHHHH! to us with his finger on his lips. I showed him a different finger! I usually act with the utmost class at all sporting events, but he angered me! Plus, he showed us no class, so why show him any?

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 03:36 PM
Do we have to get back to Davidson, it is much more fun trashing new postersxnodx

hebmskebm
October 16th, 2008, 03:37 PM
So wait, are you advocating that Davidson (A) Should drop football altogether, (B) Add schollies and join the SoCon, (C) Stay where they are, but agree to let SoCon teams kick their ass OOC three times a year, or (D) Get out of the conference in all sports entirely?

Jackman
October 16th, 2008, 03:38 PM
Wow, what a bunch of whiners! Here is a clue.... Build a decent basketball program and quit getting your butts whipped by Davidson on the hardwood!xnodx

Dayton needs to join Atlantic-10 Football or get the HELL o-- oh, damn, too late. :(

USDFAN_55
October 16th, 2008, 03:39 PM
The SoCon needs Davidson Basketball, plain and simple. Just like the WCC needs Gonzaga. The premiere teams bring recognition to the smaller confrences.

USDFAN_55
October 16th, 2008, 03:41 PM
... you don't see us asking out of the SoCon for basketball to play in an inferior basketball conference...

I didn't know there was such a conferencexsmiley_wix

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 03:45 PM
So wait, are you advocating that Davidson (A) Should drop football altogether, (B) Add schollies and join the SoCon, (C) Stay where they are, but agree to let SoCon teams kick their ass OOC three times a year, or (D) Get out of the conference in all sports entirely?

Yes, I am saying they should either do A,B, or D. But not C as you stated it. If they stayed where they are at, they would only have to get ass-whipped by each SoCon team in football once a year IN CONFERENCE, as they would simply be playing a regular SoCon schedule but with no scholorships (as that would be their choice).

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 03:47 PM
I didn't know there was such a conferencexsmiley_wix

The SoCon is actually rated in the middle of the pack among the over 30 basketball conferences in d-1. There are a lot of basketball leagues that would not challenge Wofford as much as the SoCon does where we could probably have better records in- like the Big South, for instance.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 03:57 PM
So wait, are you advocating that Davidson (A) Should drop football altogether, (B) Add schollies and join the SoCon, (C) Stay where they are, but agree to let SoCon teams kick their ass OOC three times a year, or (D) Get out of the conference in all sports entirely?

I don't really care. I just like hatin' on Davidson:o xlolx

I agree with the USD poster earlier. Davidson is certainly good for SoCon basketball although let's be honest a run like last year hasn't happened in the past and more than likely won't happen in the future and if it does probably not often. No matter what anyone else says, football is the highest cost sport and it does give a competitive advantage in basketball to Davidson not to fund the scholarships that a Wofford or Furman does to play scholarship football. With that said their recent success has been phenomenal. However, they made the decision not to pay the bucks for a decent football program in the SoCon (contrary to anything Flyer says who has every right to brag on USD and Dayton and the occasional other but simply looks foolish when defending the bottom of the PFL against the SoCon) and we in the SoCon have every right to call them pu**sies for doing such. xnodx

c15683
October 16th, 2008, 04:16 PM
Hang in there folks -- the Patriot league is talking expansion ....and Davidson is on the radar.

Probably a better fit athletically and more importantly - scholastically with the likes of Colgate, Holy Cross, Lehigh, and Fordham.

Tealblood
October 16th, 2008, 04:16 PM
The SoCon is actually rated in the middle of the pack among the over 30 basketball conferences in d-1. There are a lot of basketball leagues that would not challenge Wofford as much as the SoCon does where we could probably have better records in- like the Big South, for instance.

Beyond the fact that we are 1-0 against you guys in football which sport would wofford beat us in on a regulat basis

Tealblood
October 16th, 2008, 04:18 PM
and I know Davidson is a sore sopt when it comes to football for the SOCON but what they bring to the table in basketball is huge--if nothing more than cash it is huge

WildPard
October 16th, 2008, 04:19 PM
How does not providing scholarships in football help the Davidson basketball program? Furman, Wofford, and Davidson all give the exact number of basketball scholarships regardless of the number of football scholarships they give out.
Oh, one more point--I am not an App fan. I have ties to that school in the North with the French name and to Davidson. I also had a close relationship to and positive experience with Furman through the recruiting process over the past few years.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I think Wofford could beat Coastal in men's basketball.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 04:45 PM
How does not providing scholarships in football help the Davidson basketball program? Furman, Wofford, and Davidson all give the exact number of basketball scholarships regardless of the number of football scholarships they give out.
Oh, one more point--I am not an App fan. I have ties to that school in the North with the French name and to Davidson. I also had a close relationship to and positive experience with Furman through the recruiting process over the past few years.

Well it makes more since that you are a Leopard. And, while I hate to admit it, I have tremendous respect for Davidson. I am an old timer and back in the days when FU was good a basketball during the 50s (before my time) 60s (I was a kid) and 70s (student) the Davidson Furman rivalry was a good one. It was also a good one in football until the 80s when the games became so lopsided that it was in many ways a relief for Davidson to leave the conference.

Every small private school loses money due to the cost of scholarships in football. at Furman 63 scholarships times $40,000 equal $2.5M. I probably have the dollars wrong plus or minus a little but the same thing exist for every small private school. Also, facilities are another big issue. I don't know if Davidson has done anything to their football stadium but when I used to make the trip it didn't qualify as a good high school stadium. Furman needs to upgrade theirs and eventually will have to and that will be big bucks that could be used in a different sport. If we didn't lose money on football a school like Davidson would give scholarships. There would be no reason for them not to give scholarships. A portion of the funds not expended for scholarships can then be used to improve and promote their basketball program. Pretty simple.

The Cats
October 16th, 2008, 04:49 PM
Certainly for most SoCon schools, scholarship football is a drain on the athletic budget and does affect the the amount of funding available for basketball.

Scholarship money is certainly not the reason Davidson play's non-scholly football......their endowment is over $506 million - they could certainly afford scholarship football if they desired it, with no effect on the money they devoted to basketball.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 04:51 PM
Beyond the fact that we are 1-0 against you guys in football which sport would wofford beat us in on a regulat basis


I think Wofford could beat Coastal in men's basketball (maybe not every time, but some of the time), along with every other Big South team (UNC-Asheville, who we play this year and fully expect to beat by the way, Gardner-Webb, VMI, Presbyterian, Charleston Southern, Liberty, High Point, anyone else I'm missing with the possible exception of Winthrop, who has been the only dominant team in that league in basketball for a long time now.

Coastal has us in baseball, no doubt, along with probably everyone else (we suck- we hired the wrong coach last year and I want him fired, but it won't happen)

As for other sports, I really don't care.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 04:58 PM
Certainly for most SoCon schools, scholarship football is a drain on the athletic budget and does affect the the amount of funding available for basketball.

Scholarship money is certainly not the reason Davidson play's non-scholly football......their endowment is over $506 million - they could certainly afford scholarship football if they desired it, with no effect on the money they devoted to basketball.

Why not, earn 5% on $500m (which is also Furman's endowment) and that is $25M per year. the cost of scholarships would be 10% of the endowment earnings.xnodx

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 05:02 PM
Certainly for most SoCon schools, scholarship football is a drain on the athletic budget and does affect the the amount of funding available for basketball.

Scholarship money is certainly not the reason Davidson play's non-scholly football......their endowment is over $506 million - they could certainly afford scholarship football if they desired it, with no effect on the money they devoted to basketball.

Also, they fund scholarships in every other sport. If the cost of 63 scholarships wasn't the issue, then why not fund themxconfusedx

If Davidson is similar to Furman then probably only about 50 to 60% of the students pay a full ride. Assume they have 1000 full pay students (split or otherwise) that is $40M and football scholarships are over 6% of that number. That is not a small percentage.

appmaj
October 16th, 2008, 05:14 PM
If you have a football program you should play in the conference you are in...

Go...gate
October 16th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Hang in there folks -- the Patriot league is talking expansion ....and Davidson is on the radar.

Probably a better fit athletically and more importantly - scholastically with the likes of Colgate, Holy Cross, Lehigh, and Fordham.

They tried this once - they were a charter member back when the PL was the Colonial League, a football-only conference, but they elected to depart. They struggled in FB, but no more than Fordham did or Georgetown has. I think over time they would have been a very good fit for football.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 06:28 PM
They tried this once - they were a charter member back when the PL was the Colonial League, a football-only conference, but they elected to depart. They struggled in FB, but no more than Fordham did or Georgetown has. I think over time they would have been a very good fit for football.

Another thing Davidson joined the SoCon in 1936 along with Furman, The Citadel (Wake Forest, Richmond and W&Mwere also in that group) so they are a long time member. When they dropped out of SoCon football, the SoCon ask them to leave. Three years later they were invited back. They have a long history in the SoCon. xnodx However, that is one more reason that football out of the SoCon is dissapointing.

PantherRob82
October 16th, 2008, 06:28 PM
Davidson playing in your league earns you money when they make tourney runs.....

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 06:32 PM
Wofford actually entertained thoughts of the Patriot League back when they were making the jump to D-1 in the mid-1990s due to the academics, but decided it didn't make sense geographically- too many long road trips. So, under great protest from some schools that shall remain nameless, Wofford somehow got the needed votes to slip into the SoCon.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 06:34 PM
Davidson playing in your league earns you money when they make tourney runs.....

Absolutelyxthumbsupx but like most mid-majors they are usually one and done. Maybe they will have a streak but a lot of people give a lot of credit to that one season.

OL FU
October 16th, 2008, 06:45 PM
I am not positive but I believe FU dropped athletic scholarships for football in the 60s for financial reasons I am sure. We got our asses handed to us by not only SoCon teams but pretty much anybody. I think Wofford's NAIA teams usually beat us during those days. We could have easily gone the same route as Davidson but fortunately wiser heads prevailed realizing that a well funded football program was an intregal part of the college experience and a hell of way to keep the alumni interested in the school.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 06:50 PM
Yep, because in America FOOTBALL is much more popular and a better conversation starter than basketball!

Marcus Garvey
October 16th, 2008, 07:10 PM
Davidson downgraded years ago and bailed on the SoCon for football. I can't imagine the conference making a big deal of this now, after all this time.

Isn't Davidson arguably the best basketball team in the SoCon though?

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 07:23 PM
I can't see how you could argue for anyone else right now...Davidson is hands-down the best in hoops, especially with Stephon Curry staying in school. I'd be surprised if anyone in the SoCon beats them. I think Davidson fans are all pretty much expecting another NCAA tournement run as well. Now that I'm not sure about...the NCAA tourney is an unpredictable animal.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 07:35 PM
But I can also look at the Davidson football program like this...does anybody out there right now care about football at the school? They are one of only a handful of schools that I can honestly say I have never seen a poster on AGS representing. If they'd play SoCon football, at least that would raise some interest in the sport there...even if they didn't win much people would watch more and care more if they were in a good football league.

Tim James
October 16th, 2008, 07:46 PM
I cant imagine a school as small as Davidson having scholarship football. They even have a smaller enrollment than Rice and Rice plays in an empty stadium most of the time.

woffordgrad94
October 16th, 2008, 07:56 PM
I cant imagine a school as small as Davidson having scholarship football. They even have a smaller enrollment than Rice and Rice plays in an empty stadium most of the time.

They are not as small as Wofford is. Wofford has only about 1,200 students.

Tim James
October 16th, 2008, 08:12 PM
Its still a huge gamble to start a football program at a place with a really small enrollment. Its very risky.

terrierbob
October 16th, 2008, 08:29 PM
I can hear my guidance counselor now:

"Well, you have the scores to go to Davidson, but they won't want you because of the grades". I'd have a snowball's chance in hell to get into Wiffird now. Diversity my ass. :)

SCPALADIN
October 16th, 2008, 08:32 PM
You could say that College of Charleston and UNC-Greensboro don't belong in the conference either, but the difference between them and Davidson is that they have never had a football team, while Davidson does have one and still refuses to play it in the SoCon with the rest of us.

College of Charleston fielded a football team from sometime around the turn of the century through the 1923 season. :D

USDFAN_55
October 16th, 2008, 10:06 PM
Also, they fund scholarships in every other sport. If the cost of 63 scholarships wasn't the issue, then why not fund themxconfusedx

If Davidson is similar to Furman then probably only about 50 to 60% of the students pay a full ride. Assume they have 1000 full pay students (split or otherwise) that is $40M and football scholarships are over 6% of that number. That is not a small percentage.

If you add 63 football scholarships, then equivalent aid would then have to be provided for women's athletics; or taken away from other men's sports. It's not just 63 scholarships for football that you need to think about. Adding that many scholarships has a very large impact on an athletic program.

rcny46
October 17th, 2008, 12:28 AM
In the old SoCon, was Davidson worse than VMI?

That was pretty much the case.They were a national power in Basketball back in the 60's when I was attending The Citadel,but their football program wasn't much to write home about.Some other members of the Southern Conference in those days were George Washington,Richmond,W&M, East Carolina,West Virginia,and Va.Tech.

DFW HOYA
October 17th, 2008, 02:01 AM
I cant imagine a school as small as Davidson having scholarship football. They even have a smaller enrollment than Rice and Rice plays in an empty stadium most of the time.

Rice is still averaging 20,000 a game and that's without the Texas game to bump up the number. Not bad.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 06:17 AM
If you add 63 football scholarships, then equivalent aid would then have to be provided for women's athletics; or taken away from other men's sports. It's not just 63 scholarships for football that you need to think about. Adding that many scholarships has a very large impact on an athletic program.

Good pointxnodx

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 06:18 AM
Rice is still averaging 20,000 a game and that's without the Texas game to bump up the number. Not bad.

I believe Wofford is the same size as Davidson

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 06:20 AM
Its still a huge gamble to start a football program at a place with a really small enrollment. Its very risky.

I don't when the started football but they had been playing it in the Socon since 1936 until the left aroung '88

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 06:22 AM
Davidson downgraded years ago and bailed on the SoCon for football. I can't imagine the conference making a big deal of this now, after all this time.

Isn't Davidson arguably the best basketball team in the SoCon though?

The left the conference in 88 after downgrading football and rejoined three years later so you are right the conference would never consider it. Just a fund topic for fans to bitch and moan aboutxnodx

Although I would love to not play a DII one year and scheduel Davidsonxnodx

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 06:48 AM
with NCAA basketball money it is not just a 1 year deal a run past the first round because the coference is gonna get at least 1 team in anyway but if Davidson secured an at-large that is bonus to the conference

plus it is on a five year rolling number not exactly sure how it works but each team in coference is getting extra( everything past a 1 game automatic ) for 5 years

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 06:50 AM
this is the same argument Clemson people used to have years ago about why should we split our bowl money with Duke

when in fact the bowl money was dwarfed by what a final four run by duke would do because of the 5 year multiplier

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 06:55 AM
this is the same argument Clemson people used to have years ago about why should we split our bowl money with Duke

when in fact the bowl money was dwarfed by what a final four run by duke would do because of the 5 year multiplier

what argument is that?

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 07:09 AM
why should Duke get any of the money split from Clemson going to bowl games

WildPard
October 17th, 2008, 07:11 AM
The scholarship equivalents to women's sports is the biggest stumbling block to Davidson. Did anyone ever consider that they're happy with the Pioneer Football League and may not want to move? I'm not sure, but as a fan, I'd like to see them move, but not to the SoCon. I'd like to see them back in the Patriot League.
There is a solid fan base for Davidson football. Don't measure their fan support by the number of posts on AGS.
As far as the quality of their program and athletes--many of them were recruited by the SoCon, Patriot, and Ivy teams. Why did they choose Davidson over a possible scholarship from a SoCon team--academics would probably be the number one answer. Why did they choose Davidson over a Patriot or Ivy team--some of it was academics (Patriot), no loans in the financial package (Ivy), and location for both.
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year. The Patriot League is looking to expand. Will the PL consider Davidson and will Davidson consider moving? In my opinion, they would be instantly competitive in the PL. I'm not talking top rung off the bat, but I consider them to be at least equal to, if not better than, Georgetown and Bucknell. On the other hand, it would take years and cost millions until they're competitive.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 07:18 AM
why should Duke get any of the money split from Clemson going to bowl games

Oh sorry, the benefits of belonging to a conferencexthumbsupx Try being independentxsmiley_wix

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 07:22 AM
The scholarship equivalents to women's sports is the biggest stumbling block to Davidson. Did anyone ever consider that they're happy with the Pioneer Football League and may not want to move? I'm not sure, but as a fan, I'd like to see them move, but not to the SoCon. I'd like to see them back in the Patriot League.
There is a solid fan base for Davidson football. Don't measure their fan support by the number of posts on AGS.
As far as the quality of their program and athletes--many of them were recruited by the SoCon, Patriot, and Ivy teams. Why did they choose Davidson over a possible scholarship from a SoCon team--academics would probably be the number one answer. Why did they choose Davidson over a Patriot or Ivy team--some of it was academics (Patriot), no loans in the financial package (Ivy), and location for both.
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next year. The Patriot League is looking to expand. Will the PL consider Davidson and will Davidson consider moving? In my opinion, they would be instantly competitive in the PL. I'm not talking top rung off the bat, but I consider them to be at least equal to, if not better than, Georgetown and Bucknell. On the other hand, it would take years and cost millions until they're competitive.

by the way after a rough start, Welcome to the boardxthumbsupx :D xthumbsupx

Davidson made the right choice if they were going to go non-scholly. They did not belong in SoCon football. The conversation is more mental masturbation than anything else. Except for a 3 year period, Davidson has been a member of the SoCon for most sports for 70+ years. We in the SoCon don't get a chance to beat up on them on this message board, so we make up reasonsxlolx

DetroitFlyer
October 17th, 2008, 09:38 AM
Perhaps Davidson is run by some really smart and financially savy folks.... Simple question: Is it better to excel in generally money losing FCS football or to excel in money making, NCAA Division I basketball? I'm betting that far more folks across the land have now heard of Davidson because of the recent basketball success.... How many folks across the land give a rats --- about Furman or Wofford's FCS success? Granted, many folks have heard of App State because of the Michigan win, but that was a big exception generally speaking.

Frankly, outside of bragging rights on this board, what do the likes of Furman or Wofford gain by having successful FCS programs? Does it bring a ton of money into the schools from donors? Maybe so.... How much money do you think Davidson is raking in due to the hardwood success? So, they make money to begin with on the hardwood, then they get even more money from donations due to the success.... And, they have a decent, viable, FCS football program.... Who exactly are the "stupid" ones in this discussion again?xlolx

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 09:59 AM
Perhaps Davidson is run by some really smart and financially savy folks.... Simple question: Is it better to excel in generally money losing FCS football or to excel in money making, NCAA Division I basketball? I'm betting that far more folks across the land have now heard of Davidson because of the recent basketball success.... How many folks across the land give a rats --- about Furman or Wofford's FCS success? Granted, many folks have heard of App State because of the Michigan win, but that was a big exception generally speaking.

Frankly, outside of bragging rights on this board, what do the likes of Furman or Wofford gain by having successful FCS programs? Does it bring a ton of money into the schools from donors? Maybe so.... How much money do you think Davidson is raking in due to the hardwood success? So, they make money to begin with on the hardwood, then they get even more money from donations due to the success.... And, they have a decent, viable, FCS football program.... Who exactly are the "stupid" ones in this discussion again?xlolx

Since we are considering the points I think the more appropriate one would be that Davidsion Fans didn't care about Davidison football so they decided to save their money and play DIII ball with the rest of the PFL.

Universities are not in the business of making money. They are in the business of graduating students and part of the ability to do that is to maintain relations with the alumni in order to continue to receive their financial support. Most schools pick and choose their methodology in doing that and most schools realize that the interest in their football programs will be local or alums. Not national TV or other national sports media. I think your point is dead on. Why worry about playing in a good conference with strong competition when the alumni aren't going to show up to watch us get our brains beat in by that competition.xnodx DIII and the PFL sounded good to Davidson.xnodx

WildPard
October 17th, 2008, 10:33 AM
If you consider Davidson and the PFL as DIII, where does that put the Patriot and Ivy? Dayton, the 2007 PFL champ, beat Fordham, the 2007 Patriot champ and FCS playoff qualifier. To prove it was no fluke, they beat them again this year. The series between the Patriot and Ivy is usually pretty close.
Ask ten people in the North, Midwest or West who or what a Furman or Wofford is--nine will have no clue. Ask the same ten about Davidson and nine will know.

Appstate29
October 17th, 2008, 10:58 AM
If you consider Davidson and the PFL as DIII, where does that put the Patriot and Ivy? Dayton, the 2007 PFL champ, beat Fordham, the 2007 Patriot champ and FCS playoff qualifier. To prove it was no fluke, they beat them again this year. The series between the Patriot and Ivy is usually pretty close.
Ask ten people in the North, Midwest or West who or what a Furman or Wofford is--nine will have no clue. Ask the same ten about Davidson and nine will know.

I probably fall on the other side of most ASU fans, but I really enjoy having Davidson, Furman, and Wofford in the SoCon. They bring a level of academic and athletic excellence that we at ASU can hope to learn from, and strive for. God help us all if one day we are in a conference with ECU and Marshall, I hope we remember our former conference mates commitment to both athletics and academics and conduct ourselves appropriately.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 11:05 AM
If you consider Davidson and the PFL as DIII, where does that put the Patriot and Ivy? Dayton, the 2007 PFL champ, beat Fordham, the 2007 Patriot champ and FCS playoff qualifier. To prove it was no fluke, they beat them again this year. The series between the Patriot and Ivy is usually pretty close.
Ask ten people in the North, Midwest or West who or what a Furman or Wofford is--nine will have no clue. Ask the same ten about Davidson and nine will know.

Have you noticed that I typically only respond in that fashion when responding to someone that has either made an outrageous post or who has made what might seem like a reasonable post but with flawed reasoning. xnodx For example, your first post making fun of the SoCon illicited such a response. Subsequent posts of a more reasonable nature have received reasonable responses.

I don't consider the PFL DIII. I post that because Flyer made a post in my opinion that used faulty logic. It was simply if you can't make money at football then you are smart to go the non-scholarship route and dumb to do otherwise. His reasoning is faulty in that schools make those decisions based on intangibles impacting the alums, community and a myriad of other issues not just the bottom line. I do generally consider the PFL at a level much below most scholarship conferences. There are exceptions Dayton last year, USD the year before. Those exceptions occur but the majority of the PFL do not play at a level that is close to the SoCon. I give Davidson as an example. If they had played at that level they would not have dropped SoCon Football.

Now, ask me if I care if most people in the Midwest have heard of Furman Athletics. xeyebrowxxeyebrowx xeyebrowx xsmhx xsmhx

Certainly people in the midwest have heard of Davidson with their basketball run last year. But does that make them a fan? No. Are they going to send money to Davidson due to that ? No. Are they going to watch Davidsion on TV? Maybe. The run last year for Davidson was a good one and one that will benefit them and the SoCon. I don't think I have disputed that. But the argument of who has heard of who is really pretty meaningless. Perhaps I am one of those fans that really don't stand on my ego because it doesn't bother me. Furman is a small respect private liberal arts school. But in my travels I am always shocked at the number of educated professionals who have heard of FU.

PS, You can believe that I yelled at the TV as loud as anyone rooting for the Wildcats during last years March Madnessxnodx

woffordgrad94
October 17th, 2008, 11:16 AM
C of C really should have football...I think they definitely have the resources, and I think a program would really take off. After all, another alternative to play in a great FCS conference in Charlerston, SC would not be a bad thing at all. Charleston is not exactly a hard sell to recruits as it is a great town on the beach with great weather. The Citadel, although it is a fine institution and definitely has its place, and the life you must lead there, is definitely not for everyone. The College of Charleston to me has more universal appeal. So taking all that into, account, I don't think it would take very long at all for a C of C football program to become good and become a great rival for The Citadel. Hell, those places are pretty much right across the street from one another! You can walk from one campus to the other. Yeah, I haven't forgot about Charleston Southern. But the Big South is not the SoCon, and while I know the CSU program is getting better, I don't think it would take a C of C program long to catch up with and then pass CSU.

dungeonjoe
October 17th, 2008, 11:27 AM
Have you noticed that I typically only respond in that fashion when responding to someone that has either made an outrageous post or who has made what might seem like a reasonable post but with flawed reasoning. xnodx For example, your first post making fun of the SoCon illicited such a response. Subsequent posts of a more reasonable nature have received reasonable responses.

I don't consider the PFL DIII. I post that because Flyer made a post in my opinion that used faulty logic. It was simply if you can't make money at football then you are smart to go the non-scholarship route and dumb to do otherwise. His reasoning is faulty in that schools make those decisions based on intangibles impacting the alums, community and a myriad of other issues not just the bottom line. I do generally consider the PFL at a level much below most scholarship conferences. There are exceptions Dayton last year, USD the year before. Those exceptions occur but the majority of the PFL do not play at a level that is close to the SoCon. I give Davidson as an example. If they had played at that level they would not have dropped SoCon Football.

Now, ask me if I care if most people in the Midwest have heard of Furman Athletics. xeyebrowxxeyebrowx xeyebrowx xsmhx xsmhx

Certainly people in the midwest have heard of Davidson with their basketball run last year. But does that make them a fan? No. Are they going to send money to Davidson due to that ? No. Are they going to watch Davidsion on TV? Maybe. The run last year for Davidson was a good one and one that will benefit them and the SoCon. I don't think I have disputed that. But the argument of who has heard of who is really pretty meaningless. Perhaps I am one of those fans that really don't stand on my ego because it doesn't bother me. Furman is a small respect private liberal arts school. But in my travels I am always shocked at the number of educated professionals who have heard of FU.

PS, You can believe that I yelled at the TV as loud as anyone rooting for the Wildcats during last years March Madnessxnodx

This has to be the most well-reasoned, logical thread of any I have seen on AGS in awhile. Thanks to all of you.

The Southern Conference is not just football or basketball (although those are revenue sports) there are many more. But the diversity of the SoCon gives student athletes a higher level of competition than any other in the region for the size school most of them are.

By the way, VMI is a member of the SoCon in wrestling; I did not realize that until recently.

USDFAN_55
October 17th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Certainly people in the midwest have heard of Davidson with their basketball run last year. But does that make them a fan? No. Are they going to send money to Davidson due to that ? No. Are they going to watch Davidsion on TV? Maybe.



There are plenty of people that jump on the bandwagon when these small schools have success in the basketball tournament. They may not be true fans, but they do go out and by apparel. This has been seen with the success of Gonzaga basketball.

DetroitFlyer
October 17th, 2008, 11:42 AM
Have you noticed that I typically only respond in that fashion when responding to someone that has either made an outrageous post or who has made what might seem like a reasonable post but with flawed reasoning. xnodx For example, your first post making fun of the SoCon illicited such a response. Subsequent posts of a more reasonable nature have received reasonable responses.

I don't consider the PFL DIII. I post that because Flyer made a post in my opinion that used faulty logic. It was simply if you can't make money at football then you are smart to go the non-scholarship route and dumb to do otherwise. His reasoning is faulty in that schools make those decisions based on intangibles impacting the alums, community and a myriad of other issues not just the bottom line. I do generally consider the PFL at a level much below most scholarship conferences. There are exceptions Dayton last year, USD the year before. Those exceptions occur but the majority of the PFL do not play at a level that is close to the SoCon. I give Davidson as an example. If they had played at that level they would not have dropped SoCon Football.

Now, ask me if I care if most people in the Midwest have heard of Furman Athletics. xeyebrowxxeyebrowx xeyebrowx xsmhx xsmhx

Certainly people in the midwest have heard of Davidson with their basketball run last year. But does that make them a fan? No. Are they going to send money to Davidson due to that ? No. Are they going to watch Davidsion on TV? Maybe. The run last year for Davidson was a good one and one that will benefit them and the SoCon. I don't think I have disputed that. But the argument of who has heard of who is really pretty meaningless. Perhaps I am one of those fans that really don't stand on my ego because it doesn't bother me. Furman is a small respect private liberal arts school. But in my travels I am always shocked at the number of educated professionals who have heard of FU.

PS, You can believe that I yelled at the TV as loud as anyone rooting for the Wildcats during last years March Madnessxnodx

So.... Joe or Sally Midwest is looking for a college to attend with a great academic reputation. Joe or Sally has heard of Davidson and may choose to apply. Joe or Sally has never heard of Wofford or Furman.... Like it or not, hardwood success at the NCAA Division I level results in real, tangible benefits to the school that enjoys them! It even helps in football recruiting. The recruiting advantage is one of the biggest reason the NCAA implemented the Dayton rule in the early 1990's. If Wofford and Furman wanted to enjoy the kind of recognition and success that Davidson is enjoying, they would do well to vastly improve the basketball program. Guess what, there is a reason why 300+ schools play Division I basketball. Virtually any school can do it.... If your program does not succeed, it is not because you have a football program, it is because you have a poorly run basketball program.... Far fewer play Division I football because it is not easy.... Frankly, ANY school with a Division I football program deserves kudos. Yeah, Xavier has been kicking my Flyers butts on the courts for a good while now, but we have Division I football and they have a new club team.... Just one of many reasons why UD is better than Xavier by the way....

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 11:43 AM
There are plenty of people that jump on the bandwagon when these small schools have success in the basketball tournament. They may not be true fans, but they do go out and by apparel. This has been seen with the success of Gonzaga basketball.

I haven't seen one more Davidson shirt around hear. xsmhx In fact, I haven't seen a Davidson shirt in probably four years (except at a bball game:o ) and I am probably 120 miles away.

Actually what I was thinking is that it might broaden your applicant base. Someone might look at Davidson because of the publicity brought by the basketball team. But let's remember the apparel deal and the possibility of more applicants is really a small deal. Once again, it doesn't diminish the the acheivement but the acheivement is more important for the pride of the school and the alums than it is for anything an outsider might bring to the table (Other than recruiting obviously).

dungeonjoe
October 17th, 2008, 11:45 AM
If Joe or sally are looking for great reputation, athletics will not be the door by which they choose a school. Academic will be.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 11:47 AM
So.... Joe or Sally Midwest is looking for a college to attend with a great academic reputation. Joe or Sally has heard of Davidson and may choose to apply. Joe or Sally has never heard of Wofford or Furman.... Like it or not, hardwood success at the NCAA Division I level results in real, tangible benefits to the school that enjoys them! It even helps in football recruiting. The recruiting advantage is one of the biggest reason the NCAA implemented the Dayton rule in the early 1990's. If Wofford and Furman wanted to enjoy the kind of recognition and success that Davidson is enjoying, they would do well to vastly improve the basketball program. Guess what, there is a reason why 300+ schools play Division I basketball. Virtually any school can do it.... If your program does not succeed, it is not because you have a football program, it is because you have a poorly run basketball program.... Far fewer play Division I football because it is not easy.... Frankly, ANY school with a Division I football program deserves kudos. Yeah, Xavier has been kicking my Flyers butts on the courts for a good while now, but we have Division I football and they have a new club team.... Just one of many reasons why UD is better than Xavier by the way....


Saying this, I need to read the post more closely, but after the first skim, I agree with everyone of your pointsxnodx and mentioned them in a post after you. I just disagree on the impact of the "tangible results" Davidson has less than 2000 students. I would imagine they turn away even more students than Furman which has a pretty high denial rate. A couple of folks from the midwest sending their application because they saw Davidson play in the elite 8 ain't making or breaking Davidison College.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 11:49 AM
So.... Joe or Sally Midwest is looking for a college to attend with a great academic reputation. Joe or Sally has heard of Davidson and may choose to apply. Joe or Sally has never heard of Wofford or Furman.... Like it or not, hardwood success at the NCAA Division I level results in real, tangible benefits to the school that enjoys them! It even helps in football recruiting. The recruiting advantage is one of the biggest reason the NCAA implemented the Dayton rule in the early 1990's. If Wofford and Furman wanted to enjoy the kind of recognition and success that Davidson is enjoying, they would do well to vastly improve the basketball program. Guess what, there is a reason why 300+ schools play Division I basketball. Virtually any school can do it.... If your program does not succeed, it is not because you have a football program, it is because you have a poorly run basketball program.... Far fewer play Division I football because it is not easy.... Frankly, ANY school with a Division I football program deserves kudos. Yeah, Xavier has been kicking my Flyers butts on the courts for a good while now, but we have Division I football and they have a new club team.... Just one of many reasons why UD is better than Xavier by the way....


And PS, I also agree with
Frankly, ANY school with a Division I football program deserves kudos.. I would probably change it to any division football. xnodx Better for Davidson to play in another conference than drop footballxnodx

USDFAN_55
October 17th, 2008, 11:56 AM
I haven't seen one more Davidson shirt around hear. xsmhx In fact, I haven't seen a Davidson shirt in probably four years (except at a bball game:o ) and I am probably 120 miles away.

Actually what I was thinking is that it might broaden your applicant base. Someone might look at Davidson because of the publicity brought by the basketball team. But let's remember the apparel deal and the possibility of more applicants is really a small deal. Once again, it doesn't diminish the the acheivement but the acheivement is more important for the pride of the school and the alums than it is for anything an outsider might bring to the table (Other than recruiting obviously).

Maybe not locally, but I have seen more and more out here in CA.

woffordgrad94
October 17th, 2008, 12:00 PM
College of Charleston fielded a football team from sometime around the turn of the century through the 1923 season. :D

They should start a football program now at C of C. I'm pretty sure they have the resources. I think they could be successful fairly soon as a SoCon program. Charleston, SC is a nice town on the beach with great weather, so recruiting wouldn't be really hard. The Citadel is a fine school with a great and needed purpose, but it and the kind of life it demands are simply not for everybody. C of Chas more universal appeal. They could be a great rival for The Citadel; the schools are right next to each other- pretty much walking distance. Yeah, I know Charleston also has CSU, a program getting better, but the Big South is not the SoCon. I just think SoCon football at C of C would catch up with and pass CSU, and it would be a big hit on the C of C campus.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 12:03 PM
Maybe not locally, but I have seen more and more out here in CA.

Yeah, but what bandwagon do Californians not jump onxlolx

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 12:05 PM
They should start a football program now at C of C. I'm pretty sure they have the resources. I think they could be successful fairly soon as a SoCon program. Charleston, SC is a nice town on the beach with great weather, so recruiting wouldn't be really hard. The Citadel is a fine school with a great and needed purpose, but it and the kind of life it demands are simply not for everybody. C of Chas more universal appeal. They could be a great rival for The Citadel; the schools are right next to each other- pretty much walking distance. Yeah, I know Charleston also has CSU, a program getting better, but the Big South is not the SoCon. I just think SoCon football at C of C would catch up with and pass CSU, and it would be a big hit on the C of C campus.

Let's not give 'em any ideas. xeyebrowx xlolx We have 2 FBS and 7 FCS teams in the state of SC. More is not always better. :)

woffordgrad94
October 17th, 2008, 12:13 PM
Let's not give 'em any ideas. xeyebrowx xlolx We have 2 FBS and 7 FCS teams in the state of SC. More is not always better. :)

Let's see if I can get them
FBS (obvious)
Clemson- Clemson, SC
USC- Columbia, SC

FCS
Wofford (Spartanburg, SC)
Furman (Greenville, SC)
The Citadel (Charleston, SC)
Charleton Southern (North Charleston, SC)- why aren't they called "Charleston Northern"?
Coastal Carolina- Conway, SC
S.C. State- Orangeburg, SC
Presbyterian- Clinton, SC

yep, that's 7. There's room for one more. Doesn't NC have a lot?

Rekdiver
October 17th, 2008, 12:14 PM
Now we got a Wofford fan busting Davidson??

Bully!

Well the stock market sucks so I got bored and decided to do some checking.....

A little school that has owned your football team with a record of 27 15-1 (13 of them shutouts) and has administered the two worst beatings that a Wofford team has ever had (86-6, 87-0)!! xnonox

Why are we all of a sudden picking on Davidson? What about UNCG? and College of Charleston?

I'd much rather see the rest of the SoCon grow a pair including App and start playing basketball.....Being the northern Division champs err chumps and not going to the dance does absolutely nothing for me.

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 12:17 PM
Now we got a Wofford fan busting Davidson??

Bully!

Well the stock market sucks so I got bored and decided to do some checking.....

A little school that has owned your football team with a record of 27 15-1 (13 of them shutouts) and has administered the two worst beatings that a Wofford team has ever had (86-6, 87-0)!! xnonox

Why are we all of a sudden picking on Davidson? What about UNCG? and College of Charleston?

I'd much rather see the rest of the SoCon grow a pair including App and start playing basketball.....Being the northern Division champs err chumps and not going to the dance does absolutely nothing for me.

If I was a major fan of historical football records, I would running every ASU fan out of townxrolleyesx :o xwhistlex xlolx

DFW HOYA
October 17th, 2008, 12:18 PM
North Carolina I-A:

Duke
East Carolina
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Wake Forest

North Carolina I-AA:

Appalachian St.
Campbell
Davidson
Elon
NC Central
NC A&T
Western Carolina
Winston-Salem St.

This ties Pennsylvania with the most I-AA schools in a single state with eight. Texas has the most I-A's in a state with nine.

woffordgrad94
October 17th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Now we got a Wofford fan busting Davidson??

Bully!

Well the stock market sucks so I got bored and decided to do some checking.....

A little school that has owned your football team with a record of 27 15-1 (13 of them shutouts) and has administered the two worst beatings that a Wofford team has ever had (86-6, 87-0)!! xnonox

Why are we all of a sudden picking on Davidson? What about UNCG? and College of Charleston?

I'd much rather see the rest of the SoCon grow a pair including App and start playing basketball.....Being the northern Division champs err chumps and not going to the dance does absolutely nothing for me.


All that ***** you are talking about with Davidson beating Wofford in football probably happened before I was born! Right now, Wofford could probably beat them 100-0. But that's not my main point. My point is that Davidson has simply let their football team go to Crapsville simply to be good in basketball, and refuses to participate in SoCon football even though they do indeed have a team. College of Charleston and UNC-Greensboro are different in that they do not have football teams to field in the SoCon. Davidson does- and just won't. Give them 3-5 years to get their football team into the SoCon- and if they won't do it, then bid them adieu.

T-Dogg
October 17th, 2008, 12:23 PM
Beyond the fact that we are 1-0 against you guys in football which sport would wofford beat us in on a regulat basis

The sport of keeping our football players out of jail!
xflaggedx

WildPard
October 17th, 2008, 12:35 PM
Any Georgetown fans out there? DFWHoya? I'd like to hear your side/rationale for competing at the highest level in basketball and other sports (Big East), but keeping footbal at the nonscholarship, Patriot league level?
Not bashing, but interested to hear your opinion on the Davidson/SOCON relationship as it compares to your relationship with the Big East.

UAalum72
October 17th, 2008, 12:50 PM
This ties Pennsylvania with the most I-AA schools in a single state with eight. Texas has the most I-A's in a state with nine.
New York has ten FCS
Cornell
Colgate
Albany
Marist
Iona
Wagner
Columbia
Fordham
Hofstra
Stony Brook

(but only 3 FBS)

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:02 PM
The sport of keeping our football players out of jail!
xflaggedx

let ye who is without sin cast the first stone
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40374

try not to send this to smack

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Cof C has no interest in starting football

it is also about 4 or 5 to 1 girl to guy ratio

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:06 PM
plus they ain't gots no where to play

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:11 PM
plus if you guys have seen what is going on in Columbia with the legislature trying to slash budgets

I heard they were going after a cut of 30 million from xpopcornx xwhistlex USC

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:11 PM
New York has ten FCS
Cornell
Colgate
Albany
Marist
Iona
Wagner
Columbia
Fordham
Hofstra
Stony Brook

(but only 3 FBS)

What's the population of New York state?xsmiley_wix

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:16 PM
sorry got off point for a sec North Carolina is about twice the pop of South Carolina

UAalum72
October 17th, 2008, 01:16 PM
What's the population of New York state?xsmiley_wix
More than NC, but so too for Texas and Pennsylvania

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:23 PM
More than NC, but so too for Texas and Pennsylvania

that's true

I think SC is about 4M. maybe a little more. Probably about 450,000 per D1 school. I think Mountaineer did a schedule at one point on population per D1 school. My point on CoC is at some point reach satuaration. There would be three FCS programs in Charleston. The Citadel and its oddities skew that some. We have three FCS teams in the upstate FU is about 40 miles from each and I would imagine that PC and Spartanburg couldn't be more than 60 ot 70 miles apart. It always sounds good to add more local college football teams but at some point we start eating each others lunch.

Georgia on the other hand, which is probably has twice as many people as SC, has UGA, Ga Tech, GSU and Savannah St. That is probably why FU does much of its recruiting in the northern part of Georgia. xnodx

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:32 PM
I think we all recruit Ga

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:32 PM
In the old SoCon, was Davidson worse than VMI?

xeyebrowx xeyebrowx Man that's a tough question.xconfusedx

FU beat VMI the last 20 times we played them. I seem to remember some decent VMI teams. My recollection is also that Davidson fielded decent teams up to the 80s and then fell off the cliff. xnodx

Rekdiver
October 17th, 2008, 01:40 PM
Davidson's admission standards are very tough. They cannot recruit enough players that meet these standards to be competitive. They have more money than the Lord so its not about concentrating on basketball.

How about UNCG and Charleston though...is it time for them to go?

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:46 PM
New York has ten FCS
Cornell
Colgate
Albany
Marist
Iona
Wagner
Columbia
Fordham
Hofstra
Stony Brook

(but only 3 FBS)

FBS Syracuse and who else? Man I don't know FBS:o

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 01:48 PM
Buffalo is almost FBS

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:49 PM
Davidson's admission standards are very tough. They cannot recruit enough players that meet these standards to be competitive. They have more money than the Lord so its not about concentrating on basketball.

How about UNCG and Charleston though...is it time for them to go?

Davidson's admissions standards are tough but I would imagine not sufficiently tougher than FUs or Woffords. Last I look FUs average SAT for incoming freshman was about 1380. I think Davidson was 1400.xnodx So I disagree with the statement. As I said, it is because their fans did not support the football team at a level that justified them paying the bill. xnodx

those numbers are from memory , I could be wrong

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 01:54 PM
Buffalo is almost FBS

I forgot about them:o Do they countxconfusedx

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 02:05 PM
I forgot about them:o Do they countxconfusedx

for purposes of this conversation maybe

T-Dogg
October 17th, 2008, 02:53 PM
let ye who is without sin cast the first stone
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40374

try not to send this to smack

No need for smack on this topic as CCU clearly has an edge. Aug. 28: Coastal Carolina University coach David Bennett dismissed Scott Fambrough from the football team after the junior tight end was charged with driving under the influence, again. Police arrested Fambrough early Thursday, the third time he has been jailed in the last nine months.In November, Fambrough was charged with disorderly conduct.On Jan. 13, Fambrough was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol.Seven CCU football players have been arrested since August! I live in the redneck Riviera and get the Sun, it has been a disgrace.

I did find something that Wofford would beat CCU in on a regular basis! It is recruiting student athletes: Wofford graduates 97% of its football team while CCU has the distinction of 33%. For complete statistics on GSR and Federal Graduation Rates, please visit www.ncaa.org.xrulesx

OL FU
October 17th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Danefan posted a link to the NCAA attendance records and last year Davidson drew an average of 3500 at home. My recollection from years ago is that is about what they drew for the Furman games and Furman had about 1500 of those attendees. That is a good reason not to pay for scholarships. xnodx

Tealblood
October 17th, 2008, 04:18 PM
the GSR for football don't really affect us yet

our numbers will never be Wofford's on graduation but 33% isn't a true measure

Woof
October 17th, 2008, 04:31 PM
either play SoCon Football or get the hell OUT!

Could not agree more !xthumbsupx All conference members should have to play football. This is the Southern conference for heaven's sake ! No field hockey, lacrosse or squash, just football !xpeacex

WildPard
October 17th, 2008, 04:38 PM
OL FU--pretty close. Here are the admissions figures from the Princeton Review.
Furman: Avg SAT: 1280
Avg ACT: 27.5
Selectivity Rating: 94
# Applied: 3879
# Accepted: 2159
% Accepted: 56%

Davidson: Avg SAT: 1355
Avg ACT: 30
Selectivity Rating: 97
# Applied: 3992
# Accepted: 1127
% Accepted: 28%

Go...gate
October 17th, 2008, 05:53 PM
Cof C has no interest in starting football

it is also about 4 or 5 to 1 girl to guy ratio

An outstanding recruiting tool...;)

DX Man
October 17th, 2008, 07:41 PM
The ONLY reason Davidson College is back in the SoCon is because the SoCon wanted the exposure that would come with having a member institution in the Charlotte T.V. market.

elontom
October 17th, 2008, 08:56 PM
If Davidson is going to have a football team, they need to make it either play in the SoCon, or remove them from the conference alltogether.I don't even know what that non-scholly league than Davidson is in is called, but I do know that a lot of its other members are in non-football playing leagues in other sports. The difference is that Davidson chose to join a football-playing league, and they should therefore have to play football in it if they are going to field a football team. If they still choose not to offer football scholorships and just accept a sound beating every Saturday in the fall, well, that's there perrogative. But to just let them be in the SoCon to dominate it in basketball (and be able to do so because they are not spending money on football), is dumb to me. To stay in the conference, they need to either join the rest of the league out on the gridiron, or drop football altogether (something theat got ETSU banished, by the way, yet we let Davidson do what they are doing. You could say that College of Charleston and UNC-Greensboro don't belong in the conference either, but the difference between them and Davidson is that they have never had a football team, while Davidson does have one and still refuses to play it in the SoCon with the rest of us.
scholarships
their

Davidson uses their scholarships in other areas besides athletics. You figure it out.

Model Citizen
October 17th, 2008, 09:05 PM
scholarships
their

Davidson uses their scholarships in other areas besides athletics. You figure it out.

This is AGS. It's his "perrogative" to be a dumb ass.

elontom
October 17th, 2008, 09:16 PM
This is AGS. It's his "perrogative" to be a dumb ass.
Too many red marks when I was grading his post. I must have overlooked that one. OOPS! xrotatehx

MoreheadEagle
October 17th, 2008, 09:20 PM
Let's face it. At this level it's basketball that pays the bills. In the A-10 Dayton and Xavier are usually two of the better teams and neither have schollies or play football at all. When Morehead State left the OVC in football the fear was that we'd use the money saved to prop up basketball. Instead our doofus administration at the time just decided to drop the athletics budget down and and we sucked at everything. We also had to forfeit any money that the OVC split for football playoff appearances.

I don't know if Davidson has that deal but it would make sense that Dayton, MSU, and Davidson don't get the playoff money from their respective conferences.

OL FU
October 20th, 2008, 06:50 AM
OL FU--pretty close. Here are the admissions figures from the Princeton Review.
Furman: Avg SAT: 1280
Avg ACT: 27.5
Selectivity Rating: 94
# Applied: 3879
# Accepted: 2159
% Accepted: 56%

Davidson: Avg SAT: 1355
Avg ACT: 30
Selectivity Rating: 97
# Applied: 3992
# Accepted: 1127
% Accepted: 28%

Well I haven't looked in a while but I did think Furmans SAT average was higher than that. however, I knew Davidson's was higher than Furman. In my opinion the point I made is even stronger. The basketball success is not going to make a huge difference in Davidson's applications. xnodx It would only give them more applications to deny. xnodx

DetroitFlyer
October 20th, 2008, 07:21 AM
Well I haven't looked in a while but I did think Furmans SAT average was higher than that. however, I knew Davidson's was higher than Furman. In my opinion the point I made is even stronger. The basketball success is not going to make a huge difference in Davidson's applications. xnodx It would only give them more applications to deny. xnodx

BINGO! More applications denied equals a more selective rating which improves your national reputation. The success in basketball breeds success in other areas like the number of applications denied. The more selective the school, the more they can charge for tuition. The bottom line is that Davidson gets better students that have a good chance of being successful, very successful upon graduation. Successful graduates just might be inclined to send some coin back to their school....

DFW HOYA
October 20th, 2008, 07:30 AM
BINGO! More applications denied equals a more selective rating which improves your national reputation. The success in basketball breeds success in other areas like the number of applications denied.

Not always. Georgetown's application numbers remain fairly static but its acceptance rate (20%) and yield (49% of those that accept actually enroll) drives the numbers. By contrast, Fordham has 35% more applicants than Georgetown, but accepts twice as many and yields less than a quarter of applicants.

OL FU
October 20th, 2008, 07:31 AM
BINGO! More applications denied equals a more selective rating which improves your national reputation. The success in basketball breeds success in other areas like the number of applications denied. The more selective the school, the more they can charge for tuition. The bottom line is that Davidson gets better students that have a good chance of being successful, very successful upon graduation. Successful graduates just might be inclined to send some coin back to their school....

No offense, but Davidson's success in the academic area and their ability to be very selective in their acceptance policies existed along time before last year's run in basketball. Maybe it was a hold over from Lefty's teams in the 1960's.xsmiley_wix

I think at this point we are going round and round. No doubt basketball success helps the school as a whole. Football success does the same thing. Neither are simply a money issue and probably increase applications more from the social atmosphere around the sport than other tangible benefits. The level at which a school supports its athletic programs is dependant on many more issues than simply whether it makes money.

We have really kind of lost the point of the disussion and I think it was why doesn't DAvidson participate in the SoCon for football and should they.

My answer, the don't compete because they have decided that the dollars they would need to spend to compete aren't worth it (Whether that is right or wrong it is an idividual school's choice). Should they compete? My answer is not if they aren't willing to put up the bucks to compete.

the rest of you can have at it if anyone really caresxeyebrowx xsmiley_wix

WildPard
October 20th, 2008, 08:50 AM
Davidson has to ask what the benefits would be to the school if they decided to fund football scholarships and compete in the SoCon. What's the ROI? As a fan, I'd love to see it and would thoroughly enjoy road trips to Furman, Wofford, and App as opposed to Drake, Valpo, and Butler, but I think there is a much greater chance Davidson will look at the Patriot League before the SoCon for football in the future. The PL fits their size, academic strength, and non-scholarship football philosophy. The interesting part will be if the PL goes to scholarships in order to compete more evenly with the CAA and SoCon. This could be an interesting off season this year.