Hampton gunning for a SEED... pt2 [Archive]

Lehigh Football Nation

October 31st, 2005, 02:40 PM

Any doubts now?

There are only 4 playoff eligible teams that have 0 or 1 loss:

Furman (to WCU)
Coastal Carolina (to App St.)
New Hampshire (to W&M)
Hampton

Of the 2-loss teams, there are a handful with 1 or more I-A losses:
WKU (to Auburn)
App. St. (to Kansas PLUS will lose to LSU this weekend)
Montana (to Oregon)
Texas St. (to Texas A&M?)

These are the 8 teams that could realistically be seeded, though I doubt seriously that Coastal could be seeded. However, there is a real shot that of the remaining 7 teams, at least 3 of them will have one more loss. If that happens, Hampton is absolutely a seed. Are you really going to give it to a 9-2 team, or an 8-3 team with 1 I-AA loss, over 11-0 Hampton? (The exception being App St. with 2 I-A losses - I think they get a seed with an 8-3 record.)

I thought this might happen. Just a bit more craziness, and Hampton will be seeded. Watch.

Retro

October 31st, 2005, 02:44 PM

Mcneese State is a 2 loss team with 1 loss againest I-A Southern Miss.

SAME OLD G

October 31st, 2005, 02:47 PM

I am just amazed by the fact that you folks would even question whether Hamption should be seeded or not.

henfan

October 31st, 2005, 02:52 PM

If Hampton wins out and places a bid, I think it's very likely they will get a top 4 seed. The SOS will not be as much a consideration for an undefeated team whose 11 wins came against high equity I-AA teams.

89Hen

October 31st, 2005, 02:58 PM

WMTribe90

October 31st, 2005, 03:01 PM

Does the commitee award the four seeds on any kind or regional basis? If so, that could hurt their chances if Furman wins out.

While I don't think Hampton is one of the four best teams in I-AA, if they go 11-0 they should be seeded by default given the lack of legit alternatives.

Lehigh Football Nation

October 31st, 2005, 03:01 PM

I am just amazed by the fact that you folks would even question whether Hamption should be seeded or not.

Hampton, assuming they win, will definitely have home games in the I-AA playoffs. The only question is would they have home-field through the playoffs, which is less certain. If the playoffs were today, I would say they wouldn't get a seed, meaning they're Top 4 in the country:

UNH
Furman
Montana
WKU

However, they would be a lock for a first-round home game. No shame in that - they'd be in a club that includes App St. and Texas St.

TypicalTribe

October 31st, 2005, 03:03 PM

I think there are 3 teams right now that control their own destiny in terms of seeding: UNH, Furman and Montana. If they win out, each of them will be seeded. The other seed is up for grabs. Right now I would give it to ASU, but after the loss to LSU, it will be much harder to seed an 8-3 team. Texas State and the Gateway champion are the only other 2 that could be considered, but I think Hampton has a very good chance at this point.

henfan

October 31st, 2005, 03:09 PM

It would take several teams losing and WKU winning out for the 'Toppers to get a seed, IMO.

AppGuy04

October 31st, 2005, 03:14 PM

I am just amazed by the fact that you folks would even question whether Hamption should be seeded or not.

yes, please explain y?

# 1 BearBooster

October 31st, 2005, 03:24 PM

If the playoff series started today, I believe Hampton deserves a home field game and top 4 seed. I know their schedule is not as strong as some other teams in contention for a playoff berth. However, they have won fairly convincingly against the weak competition with the exception of the SCSU game. I believe they will defeat Bethune Cookman. However if they struggle in this game, I believe the seeding committee will take hard look at them. A blow out game game against Savannah State will not help them one way or the other.

colgate13

October 31st, 2005, 03:50 PM

Massey sez:
No. 21 Hampton (85)
That 85th schedule in I-AA is what is killing them. It's by far the worst of any contending team.

Can you post the link to that? I want to see this schedule ranking.

Torero Tradition

October 31st, 2005, 04:29 PM

TypicalTribe

October 31st, 2005, 04:37 PM

I think an 11-1 San Diego should be deserving of a spot. Throw us in the western bracket.... pa pa pa please. :cool:

Or just let us play Hampton too show you how good we are, and how good they are not. :eek:

Torero, as we discussed last week, San Diego's only chance is for the committee to be left with few other options and, quite frankly, your boys got a lot of help this weekend.

In all seriousness, there is a chance that there will be fewer than 16 teams that finish the season with fewer than 4 losses. While this is no longer the standard, San Diego at least will get a look if the other option is to take a 7-4 team. It's still a long, long, long shot, but because of the craziness of this season, it's still at least possible.

SAME OLD G

October 31st, 2005, 05:24 PM

I don't have the keystrokes in me to answer because I know how this thread will eventually turn out.

WhereDoITypeMyUsername?

October 31st, 2005, 05:48 PM

Humble Steward

October 31st, 2005, 07:24 PM

Thank You Same Old G. There really is no need to defend Hampton's ranking or deserving of a seed. Leave this to all the Lovers of Mathematical Calculations (You know, the people who love to make up there own polls, because they are never satisfied with the one they have no control of). Hampton keep on winning and you will get your seed and home playoff games. Like I said before, give me the W anyday. :)

colgate13

October 31st, 2005, 07:45 PM

http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=IAA&mid=6

Thank you. Just what I needed!

GrizFoo

October 31st, 2005, 09:44 PM

Kramer was totally undefeated (I think like 16-0) in his karate class.
He should've been invited to and seeded in the K-1 Grand Prix Tokyo. Because he was, y'know, undefeated, and none of the other guys who fight K-1 have no losses.

Well put. Hampton, may be very good, may be the best team in all of I-AA, but whose to have any idea of this? They've played only 2 teams that have above a .500 record. And correct me if I'm wrong, have played no one in the top 20 and will play no one in the top 20 until the playoffs.
Certainly no offense ment to Hampton, but they need to play somebody to make it to the top 4 on my list.

Menudo

November 1st, 2005, 02:40 AM

Well in my statistics class, its very possible to manipulate polls to work the way you want. However in this case, that is a NO.

Anyway I have so much pride in my school, no matter if they lose, I will always feel like they are the best.

skinny_uncle

November 1st, 2005, 06:09 AM

I think some fans just find the GPI frustrating because it includes some rankings which seem way out of line with the polls most of us follow. Furman for instance is #1 in the TSN, AGS, and UAA polls. However, they are only #4 in the GPI because it includes rankings like Sagarin that have them at #15 and Massey which has them at #19. Where each team fits in in a ranking that depends on averaging rankings from other services depends on which rankings you chose to average.
:confused:

# 1 BearBooster

November 1st, 2005, 08:57 AM

ralph: I also thought Humble Steward's response was strange since BCC plays Hampton this weekend. Maybe, BCC plans on laying down so Hampton gets that seed. (I don't think so. Not if Coach Wyatt has anything to do with it.)

Menudo: I think the best way for Hampton to silence its critics is to beat butt in the playoffs. If they don't I fear you will never hear the end of the 'I told you so's'.

McNeese75

November 1st, 2005, 09:18 AM

Oh please come to Armstrong. We'll welcome your 78 degree weather loving, warm desert breeze havings butts with a little 42 degree, chilly drizzle, swirling Chesapeake Bay wind, late november Hampton Roads day! Let's see how you do in that when two of the best running backs in all of I-AA start pounding the ball down your throats and one of the best defenses starts confusing you with disguised blitz attacks and SPEED off the corners. PLEASE, I'M BEGGING YOU!!!!! ;)

Sounds like some of the SWAC Smack we usually hear before we :spank:

colgate13

November 1st, 2005, 10:18 AM

Sounds like some of the SWAC Smack we usually hear before we :spank:

FAU, in their brief I-AA tenure, had some similar comments too... that they had to eat later on.

People, face it. A team making the I-AA playoffs is a good I-AA team. They've got speed and they've seen speed. They seen good running backs and good defenses.

And if 42 degree weather is meant to intimidate an opposing team, you have got to be kidding me. :p

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 10:26 AM

Sad, implying that the GPI (which is not a poll) is made up by anyone for an advantage. FYI, the GPI has three polls and eight computer systems averaged. It is not a poll. You should also know that members of this board vote in all of the polls. Like I said before it wouldn't surprise me if a GPI No. 10+ was selected for a playoff seed. The committee makes crazy decisions every year.

PS. You actually want your team to lose?? They play Hampton this Saturday, you know? :confused:

The GPI is combination of computer statistics and three polls (one of which is any given saturday). However, you can manipulate systems very easily. You give weight to one aspect more than another, more weight to an away win, more weight to a ranked team, more weight to a loss to a ranked team etc. There are a number of ways in which it can be manipulated depending on who created the computer system. It isn't like the computer system was magically poofed out of the air, that is why it is 8 computer systems averaged instead of one because each is stastically different. C'mon now I know you know that.

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 10:29 AM

Sounds like some of the SWAC Smack we usually hear before we :spank:
That smack actually came from a team who by all accounts played a very close game to W&M last year. Did you see the game. I am not talking about teams from 4 and 5 years ago. I hate to bring up the past but you did. Quick, when was the last time you spanked Hampton? :rolleyes: Oh ok, so really the only smack talking should be coming from W&M but from what I see they are the only ones who have given Hampton any respect due to the fact that they actually paid attention to the game vs. Hampton in the playoffs last year. ;)

# 1 BearBooster

November 1st, 2005, 10:30 AM

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 10:32 AM

The MEAC is not only weak from a statistical standpoint when compared with other I-AA conferences. The MEAC is weak from a overall athletic talent and coaching standpoint.
coaching yes, athletically I can't completely agree with you there, just check the pro board and the players everybody is talking about this year who are former 1AA players.

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 10:35 AM

The MEAC is not only weak from a statistical standpoint when compared with other I-AA conferences. The MEAC is weak from a overall athletic talent and coaching standpoint.

I agree with the GPI. Until the MEAC Schools strengthen their out of conference schedules and improve the level of athletic talent and coaching in it's ranks, it will continue to be rated below other I-AA schools and conferences.

I'm not saying I disagree with the GPI at all, but to say that computer systems can't be manipulated is just plain wrong. I think the GPI is valid to a certain extent. However, there are always things that humans see that computers can't compute. I don't think the MEAC is a strong conference, I think, in fact, as a whole it needs to dramatically improve, however Hampton is untested against these other teams and they should wait till they play them before they say that if they had their schedule they would be undefeated. Great teams lose to crappy teams all the time.

# 1 BearBooster

November 1st, 2005, 10:36 AM

Humble Steward

November 1st, 2005, 10:45 AM

It's funny how people read into things and determine what you meant to say. Ralph, I never said that the GPI was a poll, but you implied I did. You also asked me if I plan on my team losing this weekend. No, I do not. Clearly that is my statement. I said that Hampton does not need to worry about anything but winning and they would accomplish their first goal of achieving a seed in the playoffs along with home games. Once again, clearly a statement that I made. Please do not highlight my words and try to establish what your thoughts may be of mine. Play to win and give me the W anyday. This means that we (BCC) will play to win and that is our goal every time we step on the field. :)

McNeese75

November 1st, 2005, 10:46 AM

That smack actually came from a team who by all accounts played a very close game to W&M last year. Did you see the game. I am not talking about teams from 4 and 5 years ago. I hate to bring up the past but you did. Quick, when was the last time you spanked Hampton? :rolleyes: Oh ok, so really the only smack talking should be coming from W&M but from what I see they are the only ones who have given Hampton any respect due to the fact that they actually paid attention to the game vs. Hampton in the playoffs last year. ;)

I was just throwing my :twocents: in the fire. The comment I was responding to was BS Smack and by the way I do think the Pirates are a legitimate playoff team this year but that will be proven on the field. At least the Meac plays more OOC teams than the SWAC and they compete in the playoffs so for that, my hat is off to them ;)

Of course we have never spanked Hampton and have certainly NEVER been spanked by Hampton, but DON'T make the assumption is it because we are scared of the Pirates because I can promise you OUR phone has never rang!! :)

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 10:56 AM

I was just throwing my :twocents: in the fire. The comment I was responding to was BS Smack and by the way I do think the Pirates are a legitimate playoff team this year but that will be proven on the field. At least the Meac plays more OOC teams than the SWAC and they compete in the playoffs so for that, my hat is off to them ;)

Of course we have never spanked Hampton and have certainly NEVER been spanked by Hampton, but DON'T make the assumption is it because we are scared of the Pirates because I can promise you OUR phone has never rang!! :)
What if you were out when your phone rang? Just kidding, I do know that Hampton has tried to get other teams, as I have said in other threads on my short time here with both James Madison and W&M. I was just point out that Hampton isn't the SWAC so we don't like to be thrown in there. Hampton is Hampton, part of the MEAC and that is all. :)

Tribe4SF

November 1st, 2005, 10:58 AM

That smack actually came from a team who by all accounts played a very close game to W&M last year. Did you see the game. I am not talking about teams from 4 and 5 years ago. I hate to bring up the past but you did. Quick, when was the last time you spanked Hampton? :rolleyes: Oh ok, so really the only smack talking should be coming from W&M but from what I see they are the only ones who have given Hampton any respect due to the fact that they actually paid attention to the game vs. Hampton in the playoffs last year. ;)

As a W&M fan who was there, my opinion remains that last years game was W&M against Jerome Mathis. The Tribe was able to rush for nearly 300 yards and had just shy of 600 yards total offense. Hampton's running game was ineffective. Were it not for turnovers and Jerome Mathis, I don't believe the game would have been close. Mathis is now showing in Houston what W&M fans knew last December. He can make a game close all by himself.

This is a different year, and I think HU is a better overall team than they were last year. Whether their overall talent has increased enough to have success in the playoffs remains to be seen. Last year's Pirates were not on the level of most A-10 teams (excepting Mathis). This years Pirates may be better than any A-10 team. If they are, they'll have to show it against better competition before people believe it.

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 11:01 AM

Hamptongal: Notice, I said overall athletic talent. Football is a team sport with multiple dimensions. Good football teams are comprised of many good/
outstanding players. I think the MEAC is plagued with two challenges - lack overall athletic talent and sound coaching on all levels.
I read exactly what you said and I still disagree with you about their athletic level. I definitely agree with you on the coaching level. IMHO if we had a better Offensive Coordinator, I think last year might have turned out differently...but I just can't say I feel ya about the whole athletic talent comment. I am curious however, why you think they do have a lower athletic level, what you base that off of? A team can have the greatest group of athletes and still lose, so where does that conjecture come from? :confused:

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 11:05 AM

As a W&M fan who was there, my opinion remains that last years game was W&M against Jerome Mathis. The Tribe was able to rush for nearly 300 yards and had just shy of 600 yards total offense. Hampton's running game was ineffective. Were it not for turnovers and Jerome Mathis, I don't believe the game would have been close. Mathis is now showing in Houston what W&M fans knew last December. He can make a game close all by himself.

This is a different year, and I think HU is a better overall team than they were last year. Whether their overall talent has increased enough to have success in the playoffs remains to be seen. Last year's Pirates were not on the level of most A-10 teams (excepting Mathis). This years Pirates may be better than any A-10 team. If they are, they'll have to show it against better competition before people believe it.
That's why I said I hate talking about the past, because it is a different team, however Hampton didn't even use their running game properly to control the clock better. Yes, Jerome can do awesome things, however if you notice the scores in the games last year that Jerome had a huge impact on have not changed significantly this year. You can't use last years SCST game to show the difference because last year Hampton's defense scored three touchdowns and Ardell Daniels had 166 yards. This year he had 30 and the defense had no touchdowns but absolutely shut down the offense in the second half.
We completely agree, basically, except for a few small points. I just think one player can have a huge impact but others can as a group become better players to fill in the gap somebody left behind. I think this year if this team played your team last year the score would be lower but just as close. I HATE CONJECTURING ABOUT THE PAST. TOO MANY WHAT IFS...

McNeese75

November 1st, 2005, 11:33 AM

That's why I said I hate talking about the past, because it is a different team, however Hampton didn't even use their running game properly to control the clock better. Yes, Jerome can do awesome things, however if you notice the scores in the games last year that Jerome had a huge impact on have not changed significantly this year. You can't use last years SCST game to show the difference because last year Hampton's defense scored three touchdowns and Ardell Daniels had 166 yards. This year he had 30 and the defense had no touchdowns but absolutely shut down the offense in the second half.
We completely agree, basically, except for a few small points. I just think one player can have a huge impact but others can as a group become better players to fill in the gap somebody left behind. I think this year if this team played your team last year the score would be lower but just as close. I HATE CONJECTURING ABOUT THE PAST. TOO MANY WHAT IFS...

:D Some of us would rather talk about that past :)

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 11:41 AM

:D Some of us would rather talk about that past :)
Some people only have the past to talk about. That's fine, just makes me laugh all these arguments about in the past thus and such. In the past the SF 49ers were the greatest team. In the past the Bulls were the greatest team ever.

Hamptongal

November 1st, 2005, 12:04 PM

Actually, that would be the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Celtics, but I get your meaning! :)
I'm a lil too young for those teams, sorry. :)

Menudo

November 2nd, 2005, 03:37 AM

Well since I live in San Francisco, where today the weather was a high of 69 degree ( ha ha, to all you folks freezing your butt off) Im used to warm weather. When I went to Virginia for the first time I froze my butt off. Im telling you, anything in the 50's can be considered cold for me, so yes I think weather can be a factor if Hampton was matched against San Diego. According to Cityrating dot com, San Diego average temperature in Nov is 62 degrees

Menudo

November 2nd, 2005, 04:10 AM

Yeah, polls in I-AA are historically not so good at this point. See the over/under ranked list. Explain what YOU mean.

I actually agree with the over and under ranking, but I also believe that all teams are Div-1AA and that all 1-AA are supposed to be able to play at similar levels, and if we take that then, of course Hampton should get a seed at 11-0, however if someone conferences or school show consistently that they are playing at a higher lever then of course that has to be a factor.
Over the last few years Hampton has consistently been an upper tier football team in the MEAC. However no one knows how the season will turn out once it begins. What if our OOC games were against teams, that had the potential to be better, would people really be discussing their rankings? Yes Hampton needs to play OOC games against teams that have been proven to be better and not have the potential to be better. I agree that the are over ranked,( by GPI standard ) but that does not mean they do not have a good football team.

Ex:
When I was in high school I we had a competion where we ran, 1 mile, shuttle run, sit ups, pull ups, sit and reach. At the end of the competition I was the fastest in the mile, shuttle run and did the most sit ups. I was near the top of pull ups and didnt do to well on the shuttle run. If you ask anyone everybody thought I was going to win. However they do this calculation that considers my height and weight, and because of that I wasnt even in the top 3.

AppGuy04

November 2nd, 2005, 08:00 AM

I actually agree with the over and under ranking, but I also believe that all teams are Div-1AA and that all 1-AA are supposed to be able to play at similar levels, and if we take that then, of course Hampton should get a seed at 11-0, however if someone conferences or school show consistently that they are playing at a higher lever then of course that has to be a factor.
Over the last few years Hampton has consistently been an upper tier football team in the MEAC. However no one knows how the season will turn out once it begins. What if our OOC games were against teams, that had the potential to be better, would people really be discussing their rankings? Yes Hampton needs to play OOC games against teams that have been proven to be better and not have the potential to be better. I agree that the are over ranked,( by GPI standard ) but that does not mean they do not have a good football team.

Ex:
When I was in high school I we had a competion where we ran, 1 mile, shuttle run, sit ups, pull ups, sit and reach. At the end of the competition I was the fastest in the mile, shuttle run and did the most sit ups. I was near the top of pull ups and didnt do to well on the shuttle run. If you ask anyone everybody thought I was going to win. However they do this calculation that considers my height and weight, and because of that I wasnt even in the top 3.

nobody has said they aren't a good team, in fact I think the consensus is that they deserve to be in the playoffs, just not as a top 4 seed, they just haven't proven anything to warrant that