Coastal will make the playoffs

[GSU Eagle]

Coastal is ranked at #9 right now. I could be wrong but I don't think any team who was playoff eligible has ever NOT made the playoffs if they finished in the SportsNetwork top 10.

I don't think anyone is left on their schedule who can beat them so anyone's playoff picks have to have Coastal as one of the 16.

[AppGuy04]

Coastal is ranked at #9 right now. I could be wrong but I don't think any team who was playoff eligible has ever NOT made the playoffs if they finished in the SportsNetwork top 10.

I don't think anyone is left on their schedule who can beat them so anyone's playoff picks have to have Coastal as one of the 16.

which is why that poll is bogus

[TexasTerror]

I'm sure there's been a SWAC team in the TSN top 10 that had other commitments... SWAC is still playoff-eligible, are they not?

Okay, I'll stop being a stickler...

[Saint3333]

They will likely be 4 or 5 by the end of the season as many teams will lose at least one game. Even with JMU proving to be a not so quality win they continue their climb, likely above ASU after we lose to LSU. :bang:

[OL FU]

Coastal is ranked at #9 right now. I could be wrong but I don't think any team who was playoff eligible has ever NOT made the playoffs if they finished in the SportsNetwork top 10.

I don't think anyone is left on their schedule who can beat them so anyone's playoff picks have to have Coastal as one of the 16.

I agree and I think there is a better than 75% chance Hampton will be seeded.

[AppGuy04]

its sad that these teams get in by default, because their schedules suck and we know they won't lose, thats just ridiculous

[Lapper]

I have to agree with the Appy fans :eek: that this poll is worthless. Coastal getting into the playoffs will show me what kind of farse the NCAA really is.

[ButlerGSU]

If Georgia Southern beats Furman Saturday then we will welcome Coastal to Statesboro for the first round...

We need someone to slam after the first round loss in 2004... ;-) Just kidding...

GO EAGLES!

[AppGuy04]

If Georgia Southern beats Furman Saturday then we will welcome Coastal to Statesboro for the first round...

We need someone to slam after the first round loss in 2004... ;-) Just kidding...

GO EAGLES!

sad, but TRUE!

[colgate13]

its sad that these teams get in by default, because their schedules suck and we know they won't lose, thats just ridiculous

What is sad to me is when certain teams feel entitled to something yet don't prove it on the field. This is not a direct smack against App. St. This is more in defense of the teams that are being put down: CCU and Hampton.

When CCU finished strong last year, the talk was: play a better schedule and then we'll consider you for the playoffs. Well they did play a better schedule, and went 1-1 against these 'benchmark' teams from 'power' conferences. Yet with these 'power' conference teams in jeopardy because they've lost to one other or decided to get some cash in a I-A loss than another qualifying I-AA win, it somehow is not good enough. A 30-3 loss in Boone is brought out as Exhibit A. OK, fine. My Exhibit B is a 24-7 win over Georgia Southern. Where are the cries that Georgia Southern getting in the playoffs would be "sad" or "ridiculous"? Georgia Southern's best win would be against Furman. That would be a no brainer. But is CCU's win over JMU really that much worse as to keep CCU from contention? JMU is all of a sudden reallythat bad? That's hogwash and I don't buy it. A 10-1 CCU team ABSOLUTELY deserves to be in the field of the 16 best teams in I-AA.

As for Hampton, I've already expounded on this elsewhere, but here's a short summary: An 11-0 football team has done the best that you could ever ask a team to do. Penalizing a team for playing in something other than the 'power' conferences is ridiculous. They have won it on the field. To say that some other team would come in and do the same is conjecture, but it also proves nothing. You would still have to be one of the best 16 teams in the nation to go 11-0 with Hampton's schedule IMO. Not losing a single game is a difficult thing to do, for any team, at any level. Should Hampton get a seed with that 11-0 schedule? Without any other clear and deserving contestants, why the hell not? Let's say you have your top 3 and 3 other teams at 9-3/8-3 that you think should be #4. Who do you pick? Why not Hampton?

Strength of schedule is fine for bubble teams and internet discussions. A team that has not lost is IMO largely untouchable by that arguement. They haven't lost. Who are any of us to predict that if you substituted teams A and B with two OCC Hampton games, it would without a doubt equal Hampton losses? If you are doing so - especially when you have some losses on your schedule, I think you are sitting a bit too high and mighty for my tastes. There is parity in I-AA. I think some of us need to get used to it.

[AppGuy04]

What is sad to me is when certain teams feel entitled to something yet don't prove it on the field. This is not a direct smack against App. St. This is more in defense of the teams that are being put down: CCU and Hampton.

When CCU finished strong last year, the talk was: play a better schedule and then we'll consider you for the playoffs. Well they did play a better schedule, and went 1-1 against these 'benchmark' teams from 'power' conferences. Yet with these 'power' conference teams in jeopardy because they've lost to one other or decided to get some cash in a I-A loss than another qualifying I-AA win, it somehow is not good enough. A 30-3 loss in Boone is brought out as Exhibit A. OK, fine. My Exhibit B is a 24-7 win over Georgia Southern. Where are the cries that Georgia Southern getting in the playoffs would be "sad" or "ridiculous"? Georgia Southern's best win would be against Furman. That would be a no brainer. But is CCU's win over JMU really that much worse as to keep CCU from contention? JMU is all of a sudden reallythat bad? That's hogwash and I don't buy it. A 10-1 CCU team ABSOLUTELY deserves to be in the field of the 16 best teams in I-AA.

As for Hampton, I've already expounded on this elsewhere, but here's a short summary: An 11-0 football team has done the best that you could ever ask a team to do. Penalizing a team for playing in something other than the 'power' conferences is ridiculous. They have won it on the field. To say that some other team would come in and do the same is conjecture, but it also proves nothing. You would still have to be one of the best 16 teams in the nation to go 11-0 with Hampton's schedule IMO. Not losing a single game is a difficult thing to do, for any team, at any level. Should Hampton get a seed with that 11-0 schedule? Without any other clear and deserving contestants, why the hell not? Let's say you have your top 3 and 3 other teams at 9-3/8-3 that you think should be #4. Who do you pick? Why not Hampton?

Strength of schedule is fine for bubble teams and internet discussions. A team that has not lost is IMO largely untouchable by that arguement. They haven't lost. Who are any of us to predict that if you substituted teams A and B with two OCC Hampton games, it would without a doubt equal Hampton losses? If you are doing so - especially when you have some losses on your schedule, I think you are sitting a bit too high and mighty for my tastes. There is parity in I-AA. I think some of us need to get used to it.

they'll probably both get in, so its rather irrelevant

[colgate13]

I have to agree with the Appy fans :eek: that this poll is worthless. Coastal getting into the playoffs will show me what kind of farse the NCAA really is.

Either you're sandbagging, or you've been listening to the critics for too long. 10-1 CCU NOT getting in would be a farse. The Big South, although lacking an autobid probably only because of conference numbers, is not a nonscholarship equivalent conference. This is the I-AA NCAA playoffs we are talking about folks; not the I-AA BCS style let's keep it all to ourselves playoffs.

[Hansel]

Coastal at Hampton first round maybe???

[SoCon48]

What is sad to me is when certain teams feel entitled to something yet don't prove it on the field. This is not a direct smack against App. St. This is more in defense of the teams that are being put down: CCU and Hampton.

When CCU finished strong last year, the talk was: play a better schedule and then we'll consider you for the playoffs. Well they did play a better schedule, and went 1-1 against these 'benchmark' teams from 'power' conferences. Yet with these 'power' conference teams in jeopardy because they've lost to one other or decided to get some cash in a I-A loss than another qualifying I-AA win, it somehow is not good enough. A 30-3 loss in Boone is brought out as Exhibit A. OK, fine. My Exhibit B is a 24-7 win over Georgia Southern. Where are the cries that Georgia Southern getting in the playoffs would be "sad" or "ridiculous"? Georgia Southern's best win would be against Furman. That would be a no brainer. But is CCU's win over JMU really that much worse as to keep CCU from contention? JMU is all of a sudden reallythat bad? That's hogwash and I don't buy it. A 10-1 CCU team ABSOLUTELY deserves to be in the field of the 16 best teams in I-AA.

As for Hampton, I've already expounded on this elsewhere, but here's a short summary: An 11-0 football team has done the best that you could ever ask a team to do. Penalizing a team for playing in something other than the 'power' conferences is ridiculous. They have won it on the field. To say that some other team would come in and do the same is conjecture, but it also proves nothing. You would still have to be one of the best 16 teams in the nation to go 11-0 with Hampton's schedule IMO. Not losing a single game is a difficult thing to do, for any team, at any level. Should Hampton get a seed with that 11-0 schedule? Without any other clear and deserving contestants, why the hell not? Let's say you have your top 3 and 3 other teams at 9-3/8-3 that you think should be #4. Who do you pick? Why not Hampton?

Strength of schedule is fine for bubble teams and internet discussions. A team that has not lost is IMO largely untouchable by that arguement. They haven't lost. Who are any of us to predict that if you substituted teams A and B with two OCC Hampton games, it would without a doubt equal Hampton losses? If you are doing so - especially when you have some losses on your schedule, I think you are sitting a bit too high and mighty for my tastes. There is parity in I-AA. I think some of us need to get used to it.

IMPROVED? Yes, but still one of the sorriest in I-AA.
Teams will be fighting over who gets to host Coastal in the first round.

[colgate13]

they'll probably both get in, so its rather irrelevant

I wasn't talking about what would happen. I was addressing your feelings on the subject. I did not consider them to be irrelevant, but if you would like me to from now on, so be it. :rolleyes:

[SoCon48]

Either you're sandbagging, or you've been listening to the critics for too long. 10-1 CCU NOT getting in would be a farse. The Big South, although lacking an autobid probably only because of conference numbers, is not a nonscholarship equivalent conference. This is the I-AA NCAA playoffs we are talking about folks; not the I-AA BCS style let's keep it all to ourselves playoffs.

It's not just the numbers. They are that bad.

[AppGuy04]

I wasn't talking about what would happen. I was addressing your feelings on the subject. I did not consider them to be irrelevant, but if you would like me to from now on, so be it. :rolleyes:

just saying, arguments are just that, both teams will probably make it in if they win, as they should, easily

[colgate13]

IMPROVED? Yes, but still one of the sorriest in I-AA.
Teams will be fighting over who gets to host Coastal in the first round.

Who do you want to use to look at SOS? Let's talk facts here instead of making grand statements.

I'm not a big Strength of Schedule guy, so seriously, someone help us out here.

A quick internet search gets me this:

Warren Nolan: Coastal is 44th. By comparison, #2 is South Carolina State, #4 is Princeton... Cal Poly is 45th.

Sagarin has Coastal at 185 out of 239 (out of all Division I-A and I-AA). OK, that's not too hot. Except wait a minute... could I be reading this wrong: UNH is 155? Georgia Southern is 158? UMass is 166? Youngstown state is 162? Colgate is 186? FURMAN IS 170?

Please, someone tell me I am looking at this wrong, but if I'm not: show me where CCU has such a weak schedule compared to the rest of I-AA.

[OL FU]

I agree and I think there is a better than 75% chance Hampton will be seeded.

13, just to make sure my hero (you) doesn't misunderstand. I wasn't complaing about either. I think CCU should get in and if Hampton is 11-0 should get a seed.

[colgate13]

13, just to make sure my hero (you) doesn't misunderstand. I wasn't complaing about either. I think CCU should get in and if Hampton is 11-0 should get a seed.

I know. I almost just quoted you and said "yup"! :nod:

But this talk that 10-1/11-0 (possibly :)) scholarship teams from scholarship conferences aren't good enough irks me the wrong way. It tends to make me think of a team close to my heart that had to prove some doubters wrong. :)

[Gil Dobie]

Please, someone tell me I am looking at this wrong, but if I'm not: show me where CCU has such a weak schedule compared to the rest of I-AA.

Here is their schedule
9/3/2005 Elon 17-10
9/10/2005 James Madison 31-27
9/17/2005 Appalachian State 3-30
9/24/2005 Delaware State 24-6
10/1/2005 South Carolina State 24-23
10/15/2005 Gardner-Webb 34-31
10/22/2005 Liberty 27-21
10/29/2005 VMI 38-14
11/5/2005 Savannah State
11/12/2005 Mansfield
11/19/2005 Charleston Southern

[OL FU]

Here is their schedule
9/3/2005 Elon 17-10
9/10/2005 James Madison 31-27
9/17/2005 Appalachian State 3-30
9/24/2005 Delaware State 24-6
10/1/2005 South Carolina State 24-23
10/15/2005 Gardner-Webb 34-31
10/22/2005 Liberty 27-21
10/29/2005 VMI 38-14
11/5/2005 Savannah State
11/12/2005 Mansfield
11/19/2005 Charleston Southern

Risking the wrath of all the ASU posters, their schedule hasn't been horrible by any means. The first game and last three haven't been wonderful. The last three, however, will tank their SOS.

[Coastal89]

What's your point Gil? NDSU is rated #42.
http://www.warrennolan.com/football1aa/2005/sos

42 North Dakota State 0.5280 20 17 0.5405
43 Liberty 0.5270 25 19 0.5682
44 Coastal Carolina 0.5268 24 26 0.4800
45 Fordham 0.5259 30 26 0.5357
46 Cal Poly 0.5256 20 18 0.5263
47 Idaho State 0.5204 17 17 0.5000
48 Eastern Washington 0.5192 17 16 0.5152
49 Nicholls State 0.5166 10 9 0.5263
50 Southeast Missouri State 0.5153 22 19 0.5366

51 Southeastern Louisiana 0.5148 15 12 0.5556
52 Sam Houston State 0.5136 9 8 0.5294
53 Lafayette 0.5121 25 27 0.4808
54 UC Davis 0.5114 22 20 0.5238
55 Lehigh 0.5102 26 27 0.4906
56 Chattanooga 0.5098 24 24 0.5000
57 McNeese State 0.5089 14 14 0.5000
58 Portland State 0.5066 19 18 0.5135
59 Sacramento State 0.5045 20 19 0.5128
60 Norfolk State 0.5018 23 19 0.5476

[colgate13]

Here is their schedule
9/3/2005 Elon 17-10
9/10/2005 James Madison 31-27
9/17/2005 Appalachian State 3-30
9/24/2005 Delaware State 24-6
10/1/2005 South Carolina State 24-23
10/15/2005 Gardner-Webb 34-31
10/22/2005 Liberty 27-21
10/29/2005 VMI 38-14
11/5/2005 Savannah State
11/12/2005 Mansfield
11/19/2005 Charleston Southern

I'm looking for an objective comparison against other teams under playoff consideration, particularly those from 'power' conferences.

[bostonspider]

well here is UR's

09/01/05 Thu UMass Richmond, Va. L, 19-6

09/10/05 Sat at Lafayette Easton , Pa. L, 7-0

09/17/05 Sat at Maine Orono, Maine W, 26-21

09/24/05 Sat at Vanderbilt Nashville, Tenn. L, 37-13

10/08/05 Sat Villanova Richmond, Va. W, 38-20

10/15/05 Sat Delaware Richmond, Va. W, 20-10

10/22/05 Sat Hofstra Richmond, Va. W, 43-37 (OT)

10/29/05 Sat at James Madison Harrisonburg, Va. W, 18-15

11/05/05 Sat VMI Richmond, Va. 3:00 PM

11/12/05 Sat at Towson Towson, Md. 12:00 PM

11/19/05 Sat William & Mary Richmond, Va. 1:00 PM

[Gil Dobie]

What's your point Gil? NDSU is rated #42.
http://www.warrennolan.com/football1aa/2005/sos

42 North Dakota State 0.5280 20 17 0.5405
43 Liberty 0.5270 25 19 0.5682
44 Coastal Carolina 0.5268 24 26 0.4800

In all fairness here is the NDSU schedule, 5 teams that are currently or have been ranked with Nicholls State and Weber State making some noise now.
9/1/2005 Arkansas-Monticello 59-7
9/10/2005 Northwestern State (LA) 35-7
9/17/2005 Weber State 41-0
9/24/2005 Montana State 17-20
10/1/2005 Nicholls State 26-13
10/8/2005 Cal Poly-SLO 6-37
10/22/2005 UC Davis 14-20
10/29/2005 Southern Utah 37-21
11/5/2005 Northern Colorado
11/12/2005 South Dakota State
11/19/2005 Southern Illinois

[WMTribe90]

Okay, I'll play. Lets assume WM finishes 8-3 and would be the third team taken from the A-10 and the committee has to choose between CCU and WM.

Both teams would have beaten JMU at home so we can start by taking that off the table. The other common opponents would be VMI and Liberty.

WM 45 VMI 7 vs CCU 38 VMI 14
WM 56 vs Liberty 0 vs CCU 27 Liberty 21 in 2OT

WM would have quality wins over UR (ranked), UD, UNH (spanked #1 in the country at the time), and Towson.

CCU would have a quality win over SCS.

CCU also struggled against average Gardner Webb and Elon squads and played a DII.

WM played well against a IA Marshall and would have no DII wins.

I'm sympathetic to CCU's plight, but an objective on-the-field comparison clearly shows an 8-3 WM squad has done much more than a 10-1 CCU squad to EARN a playoff spot. CCU's margin for error was super thin given their SOS to start the year. One week is a fluke, but they struggled to beat three below avergae I-AA teams and have only two quality wins. CCU is a good team, not one of the 16 best in the country IMO. And even if they are, they haven't proven it on the field and that's the only place that counts.

Note: I'm not guaranteeing WM will win out, just used them for my example since I'm most familiar with WM.

[AppGuy04]

Okay, I'll play. Lets assume WM finishes 8-3 and would be the third team taken from the A-10 and the committee has to choose between CCU and WM.

Both teams would have beaten JMU at home so we can start by taking that off the table. The other common opponents would be VMI and Liberty.

WM 45 VMI 7 vs CCU 38 VMI 14
WM 56 vs Liberty 0 vs CCU 27 Liberty 21 in 3OT

WM would have quality wins over UR (ranked), UD, UNH (spanked #1 in the country at the time), and Towson.

CCU would have a quality win over SCS.

CCU also struggled against average Gardner Webb and Elon squads and played a DII.

WM played well against a IA Marshall and would have no DII wins.

I'm sympathetic to CCU's plight, but an objective on-the-field comparison clearly shows an 8-3 WM squad has done much more than a 10-1 CCU squad to EARN a playoff spot. CCU's margin for error was super thin given their SOS to start the year. One week is a fluke, but they struggled to beat three below avergae I-AA teams and have only two quality wins. CCU is a good team, not one of the 16 best in the country IMO. And even if they are, they haven't proven it on the field and that's the only place that counts.

Note: I'm not guaranteeing WM will win out, just used them for my example since I'm most familiar with WM.

3 OT's

[Saint3333]

Any 8-3 team from the big 5 conferences should and will get in ahead of CCU. There will not be that many of them left and yes CCU will get in the playoffs.

[ASU Kep]

Getting Coastal at home in the first round = Grid-iron wet dream. Who cares if they are over-rated? They are more than welcome to make a return trip up here to good ol' App St. I think we deserve em for putting up with their fans.

[AppGuy04]

Getting Coastal at home in the first round = Grid-iron wet dream. Who cares if they are over-rated? They are more than welcome to make a return trip up here to good ol' App St. I think we deserve em for putting up with their fans.

and you think they didn't like the field then? wait til it has snow on it, haha

[colgate13]

Both teams would have beaten JMU at home so we can start by taking that off the table.

WM would have quality wins over UR (ranked), UD, UNH (spanked #1 in the country at the time), and Towson.

CCU would have a quality win over SCS.

I think you've dismissed JMU to easily from this analysis. You're using UD as a 'quality' win for W&M. Then JMU should be a quality win for both programs.

That means CCU has 2 quality wins.

And finally, you make the assumption that if Coastal had more opportunities to play A-10 teams, they wouldn't have more 'quality' wins.

I also don't put a huge amount of stock in common opponents. There are plenty of extremes that can make those look silly. It's often how one comes up with so and so beating the I-A BCS champs. But if you want to play that game, VMI looks similar, Liberty is off. Teams have off days.


I'm sympathetic to CCU's plight, but an objective on-the-field comparison clearly shows an 8-3 WM squad has done much more than a 10-1 CCU squad to EARN a playoff spot.

Losses to 4-5 URI and 4-4 Nova don't make that comparison so clear to me. You think CCU would automatically lose to them too? :confused:


And even if they are, they haven't proven it on the field and that's the only place that counts.

10-1 isn't proving it on the field? That's better than what, 95% of I-AA? You're right it's the only place that counts. I think one loss (to a top I-AA program at their place) is proving it on the field IMO.

[WMTribe90]

10-1 isn't proving it on the field? That's better than what, 95% of I-AA? You're right it's the only place that counts. I think one loss (to a top I-AA program at their place) is proving it on the field IMO.

Like it or not SOS schedule and how you win counts not just the number of wins.


I think you've dismissed JMU to easily from this analysis. You're using UD as a 'quality' win for W&M. Then JMU should be a quality win for both programs.

That means CCU has 2 quality wins.

My point is they cancel each other out since both teams would have beaten JMU, but have it your way. WM still has more quality wins.

Quality wins for CCU:

JMU and SCS

Quality wins for WM:

WM, JMU, UD, UNH and UR. Even if you take UD out (why would you they beat JMU too) WM still has twice as many quality wins.

WM plays a IA tough and CCU plays a DII.

WM spanks Liberty and CCU takes 3OTs


Teams have off days.

CCU has had several off days and with their schedule they can't afford too. Again, they barely beat Gardner Webb, Liberty and Elon. One scrape can be dimissed, three is a pattern.


And finally, you make the assumption that if Coastal had more opportunities to play A-10 teams, they wouldn't have more 'quality' wins.

I don't make any assumptions, I simply go with the games that are on the schedule. I don't know what CCU might have done against tougher competition, but thats not the point. Their resume simply doesn't stack up to an 8-3 "power" conference team, which has played an all DI schedule.

[colgate13]

I don't know what CCU might have done against tougher competition, but thats not the point. Their resume simply doesn't stack up to an 8-3 "power" conference team, which has played an all DI schedule.

But right there - there is an assumption that W&M would have done the same or better than CCU with that schedule. That is the point.

Their resume has more wins/less losses than W&M in this scenario. Everything else is hypothetical.

[WMTribe90]

Their resume has more wins/less losses than W&M in this scenario. Everything else is hypothetical.

Rankings, polls, and historic confernce strength are not hypothetical. They may be imperfect gauges, but they are not hypothetical. Rankings, polls, historic confernce strength, and past playoff performance tell us the A10 is a tougher conference than the Big South. Head to head between the A10 and Big South over the past couple years bears that out as.well These are the same criteria the commitee will use to make its selections and to compare the relative merit of CCU's 10-1 record and Team X's 8-3 record. Without doing the research, I can guarantee you the average GPI/Sagarin of WM's opponents is significantly higher than that of CCUs. If the number of wins was the only criteria there would be no incentive to play a difficult schedule.

All wins and losses are not equal. Value judgements will be made using the best available information. If WM went 10-1 with CCU's schedule I'd be making the same argument against WM.

I know you feel like your the "little guy" sticking up for your fellow "underdog", but Colgate deserved their ticket in 2003 and CCU doesn't, at least not at the expense of a more deserving 8-3 squad with more quality wins.

[bodoyle]

Ok here is a retarded question....if we (CCU) do finish #3, 4, or 5 is there a chance that we get a home game first round? Since this is relatively new to me, I will ask....If there are the top 16 teams, do the #1-8 (give or take 1 or 2) teams get home games in the first round and then higher (better) seeded teams get home field from then on? I would assume if we got a #4 or #3 ranking at season's end that we would have a home game???? I dunno.

GSU: Wow throwing respect our way now? Do my eyes decieve me? LoL. Sorry still no AP love coming from me....he is a good 3rd down blocker though...better then CB. If we get to play you guys in the playoffs, assuming we both make it, hopefully, I will be there for the "experience" everyone has told me about including my brother when his school (WIU) played there a few times.

People are discarding, some people I should say, CCU's win over JMU. Granted it does not hold the weight it did at the time we won, but they are still a top 35 team last time I checked.

App: Ahh there's the love I missed. If we did play you guys at your place.....that would be great; seeing I was unable to make it there in the regular season. And if it snows, this Chi-town guy will be thrilled!! Bring on the sloppiness!!!! I would prefer freezing rain or sleet and about 34 degrees instead though (hoping there are no accidents etc obviously).

AppGuy and I have been discussing this a little today. In regards to the debate of our SOS, yes it will take a SMALL :p hit these next 3 weeks. But, like I told AppGuy, last year when we went 10-1 against a bunch of patsys, 2 teams dropped up from their schedule because of that, so we picked up JMU and SC St. (correct me if I am wrong about SC St.) Next year we lose JMU until 2007 when we travel to their place, but we gain 2 years in a row of Georgia Southern (home and home), and 1 year, I believe with Wofford. We are improving our OOC schedule, but there is only so much we can do. Thankfully GSU has been open to playing us. Other SoCon schools hang the phone up on us when we call to attempt to work out a schedule for next year. I can imagine there will be a team or 2 that wants to back out of next year. AppGuy says that the better we play, the easier it will be to schedule. I have to disagree though because we have been winning, but because we are a small, up and coming school that plays to a full house (131% of capacity) people are, for lack of a better word, scared to play us. JMU came to our place and we all know what happened there.

[rokamortis]

13 - a 6-pack of whatever you are drinking is on me.

[JALMOND]

I'm looking for an objective comparison against other teams under playoff consideration, particularly those from 'power' conferences.

Colgate13---

I submit Portland State's schedule so far as Viking exhbit A (thank you Monday's Oregonian)...

Oregon State @ Corvallis, OR L 14-41
UC-Davis @ Davis, CA W 14-12
Sac St @ Portland W 28-12
N Colorado @ Portland W 41-17
E Washington @ Cheney, WA L 24-42
Boise St @ Boise, ID L 14-21
Montana St @ Portland W 44-41
N Arizona @ Portland W 45-0
Montana @ Missoula, MT L 16-37
Idaho St @ Pocatello, ID
Weber St @ Portland

Be as objective as you want. Its still scary. But you wanted a team from a power conference.

[Saint3333]

bodoyle don't get greedy, CCU will not have a home playoff game. If they do this board might implode.

A top ranking doesn't always equal a home game, I've seen the #5 team in the nation travel and the #12 team get a home game. Your school first has to bid for a home game and good attendance numbers don't hurt either and 52nd in average attendance will likely not get it done. I understand that's 117% of your stadium, but it is what it is. We need a bigger stadium too so I feel your pain.

[AppGuy04]

Ok here is a retarded question....if we (CCU) do finish #3, 4, or 5 is there a chance that we get a home game first round? Since this is relatively new to me, I will ask....If there are the top 16 teams, do the #1-8 (give or take 1 or 2) teams get home games in the first round and then higher (better) seeded teams get home field from then on? I would assume if we got a #4 or #3 ranking at season's end that we would have a home game???? I dunno.

GSU: Wow throwing respect our way now? Do my eyes decieve me? LoL. Sorry still no AP love coming from me....he is a good 3rd down blocker though...better then CB. If we get to play you guys in the playoffs, assuming we both make it, hopefully, I will be there for the "experience" everyone has told me about including my brother when his school (WIU) played there a few times.

People are discarding, some people I should say, CCU's win over JMU. Granted it does not hold the weight it did at the time we won, but they are still a top 35 team last time I checked.

App: Ahh there's the love I missed. If we did play you guys at your place.....that would be great; seeing I was unable to make it there in the regular season. And if it snows, this Chi-town guy will be thrilled!! Bring on the sloppiness!!!! I would prefer freezing rain or sleet and about 34 degrees instead though (hoping there are no accidents etc obviously).

AppGuy and I have been discussing this a little today. In regards to the debate of our SOS, yes it will take a SMALL :p hit these next 3 weeks. But, like I told AppGuy, last year when we went 10-1 against a bunch of patsys, 2 teams dropped up from their schedule because of that, so we picked up JMU and SC St. (correct me if I am wrong about SC St.) Next year we lose JMU until 2007 when we travel to their place, but we gain 2 years in a row of Georgia Southern (home and home), and 1 year, I believe with Wofford. We are improving our OOC schedule, but there is only so much we can do. Thankfully GSU has been open to playing us. Other SoCon schools hang the phone up on us when we call to attempt to work out a schedule for next year. I can imagine there will be a team or 2 that wants to back out of next year. AppGuy says that the better we play, the easier it will be to schedule. I have to disagree though because we have been winning, but because we are a small, up and coming school that plays to a full house (131% of capacity) people are, for lack of a better word, scared to play us. JMU came to our place and we all know what happened there.

hey bo, i think u might wanna stop this "they are scared to play us" stuff, cause you know thats not the case, there are alot of logistics involved

it just makes ya'll look big headed

[rokamortis]

bodoyle don't get greedy, CCU will not have a home playoff game. If they do this board might implode.

A top ranking doesn't always equal a home game, I've seen the #5 team in the nation travel and the #12 team get a home game. Your school first has to bid for a home game and good attendance numbers don't hurt either and 52nd in average attendance will likely not get it done. I understand that's 117% of your stadium, but it is what it is. We need a bigger stadium too so I feel your pain.

Good reply Saint. I don't think our friend Bob is being greedy - just hopeful and wondering about the possibility. The crap would have to hit the fan for us to host - it is a possibility but very, very, very slim. Our attendance and history aren't on our side.

[JALMOND]

My own definition of a quality win is a win over a playoff team (whether the auto bid from a conference or an at-large). By the same definition a quality loss is a loss to a playoff team, thus a quality or good loss should not hit you as hard as a bad loss (by definition a loss to a team not in the playoffs). Coastal probably will have one quality loss (to App State) and no bad losses if they win out. With JMU now unable to reach the necessary seven wins for consideration, Coastal's win over the Dukes is not a quality win (Coastal's win over JMU really does not mean any more now than Coastal's win over Liberty). Coastal's situation could be improved if SC State could get in, but SC State has no quality wins and two quality losses (Hampton and possibly Coastal). Hampton is a safe bet as they have the auto bid from the MEAC.

Using my team, Portland State, right now we have one quality loss (Montana). If the Big Sky were to get two teams in, the other team most likely would be the winner between Montana State and E Washington. If MSU were to win, we would have our quality win (Montana State), but we would have a bad loss (EWU). IF EWU were to win, we would have no quality wins and two quality losses (UM and EWU).

If you are confused, then I have succeeded...

[bodoyle]

Thats why I said this might be a retarded question

[colgate13]

Rankings, polls, and historic confernce strength are not hypothetical. They may be imperfect gauges, but they are not hypothetical.

We'll have to agree to disagree here, but rankings, polls and historic conference strength are EXACTLY hypothetical. There is no proof to that pudding. Just a bunch of people's opinion, some mathmatical formulas and last year's results. That is the I-A swan song you are singing. It is a set up to keep the 'top' teams at the 'top' and the outside teams always looking conveniently on the outside looking in. That doesn't fly in I-AA IMO.



I know you feel like your the "little guy" sticking up for your fellow "underdog", but Colgate deserved their ticket in 2003 and CCU doesn't, at least not at the expense of a more deserving 8-3 squad with more quality wins.


It is really easy to say that looking back, but is sure wasn't the case in November of 2003. But you are exactly right. I point to Colgate in 2003 as classic Exhibit A.

The 'nonscholarship' team from the 'weak' Patriot League that only plays the other 'weak' Ivy League had a tough time putting away Georgetown, Cornell and Holy Cross - basically an upgrading mid-major and two teams that had reached the bottoms of the I-AA barrell. Sure we beat ranked Lehigh and Fordham, but the naysayers also pointed to them to say they were pretty weak also compared to the 'power' conferences. Our lone accomplishment that people could point to was a convincing I-A win; yet there were many that said "Yea, but it's Buffalo. They suck." Of course we got in the playoffs because of an autobid. CCU doesn't have that luxury. But if the 'power' conferences out there trumped Colgate getting a seed and instead sent us to, oh, say seeded Delaware, where does that put us in 2003? First round loss and end of story.

But instead, the playoff committee put stock in the actual performance on the field, not 'yea, but look who they played or how they've done historically in the playoffs'. With that seed, we were able to get a fair shake to show what we can do and build some respect.

For CCU, people wish to exclude them from even having a shot, which I think they've earned if they win out. What good does that serve except perputating the top staying at the top and the outside always looking in? That's why I care so much about this (and Hampton). The bar is already raised higher in many respects for these programs to be considered worthy. 10-1 and 11-0 is an outstanding accomplishment that deserves recognition on the national I-AA scene, no matter who's strength of schedule, historic performance, poll or formula that ruffles. You can all gloat high and mighty if it is one and done in the playoffs. Just be sure to eat crow good and long if they put up a hell of a fight or, gasp, even win a game!

[colgate13]

13 - a 6-pack of whatever you are drinking is on me.

Saranac. Any style!

http://www.saranac.com/12summer/images/beer.jpg

[colgate13]

IMPROVED? Yes, but still one of the sorriest in I-AA.
Teams will be fighting over who gets to host Coastal in the first round.

I found what I was looking for (or at least ralph pointed it out for me :)).

These are some massey strength of schedule ratings:

Citadel: 1
App st.: 2
Portland st.: 3
and so on...

Now, Coastal Carolina is ranked 56. Let's see who they're keeping company with?

William and Mary 37
UMass 41
Western Kentucky 42
Delaware 43
James Madison 44
Youngstown State 54
Coastal Carolina 56
Southern Illinois 60
Lehigh 72

Why again do people consider their SOS to be sooooo bad? Seems to me it is middle of the pack, and almost on par several possible playoff teams, and better than two possible playoff teams.

Do people just not place any credence in Massey or do they just choose to believe what they want?

link (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=IAA&mid=6)

[UNHknowledge]

This is probably the best debate I've seen on this site since I've joined. I do not think that CCU or Hampton is better than an 8-3 power conference team but Colgate13 made a great arguement and he is absolutely right about CCU and Hampton proving it on the field. That 2003 Colgate team showed why I-AA is so much cooler than I-A. Yeah...'Gate got beat 44-0 to the Mighty Hens and an 8-3 team from a power conference probably would've put up a better fight but damn...they got there by proving it on the field (mostly on the road). I'm kind of split in this debate but I have to lean a little more on the CCU and Hampton side because of what Colgate did and I don't really remember any PL teams getting smoked in the playoffs. Colgate13...great job defending what you believe.

With all that said...I would loooove to host a 10-1 CCU team here in the friendly confines of Cowell Stadium in December. :D

[walliver]

When all is said in done, "The Committee" will meet in secret, deliberate in secret, and pick 8 teams for at large bids. They may or may not take into consideration any of all of the factors discussed in this thread. There will never be an "official" announcement of why certain teams were picked or not picked.

"The Committee" consists of representatives from the 8 automatic bid conferences, there is no representation for the Big South, Great West, independents, or Mid-Majors. Each of these representatives (it is assumed) will lobby to get as many teams from his conference in the play-offs as possible.

Now, my take on all of this (my advise is worth what you paid for it).

1) The Committee tends to stick with the status quo. In other words, all other things being equal, a "big name" school will beat out a newcomer.

2) The Committee seems to be reactionary. After being critiqued from one year, they tend to respond the next year. For example, Wofford's exclusion in 2002 "proved" that 4 teams would never be allowed from any one conference. The next year, the Gateway got four teams in the playoffs.

3) Games late in the year count more than games early in the year.

Conclusion: The Committee will likely respond to criticism of last year's exclusion of Cal Poly by giving ONE at large bid to a team outside of the 8 auto-bid conferences. If Coastal runs the table, CCU will probably get that bid. CCU has no chance of a home game. In 2003, Wofford got two home games by being seeded in the top four. The word on the boards was that if Wofford had lost to Furman, even though they would have won the SoCon outright, they would have played on the road in the first round.

[gophoenix]

Whether you guys like it or not, I-AA has become both to the fans and to the schools, a BCS style division. You have five conferences: SoCon, Big Sky, A-10, Gateway, Southland that are much like the BCS conferences in I-A. The OVC, MEAC and Patriot are viewed as conferences like the MAC. While the Big South is viewed as the Sun Belt.

It's not this way to some fans, but it is to lots of fans. And to even more fans, you'll see those who think that no matter what schools like Coastal, Wofford, Samford, Elon, Liberty, etc do, they will never belong. Some fans have a major chip on their shoulder.

To the Coastal fans. To you deserve or not? I think you do if you win out. It is tough scheduling schools to play, trust me, Elon knows. And it is even tougher to schedule good teams because you are viewed by fans as a no-win situation. They think they have everything to lose by playing you. So you don't get any respect. And you won't

Unfortuantely, the playoff committee probably won't give you a home game. Money rules now, and attendance is key. If another school fighting for a home game gets more fans, then I can almost guarantee they'll get the home game.

[SoCon48]

I found what I was looking for (or at least ralph pointed it out for me :)).

These are some massey strength of schedule ratings:

Citadel: 1
App st.: 2
Portland st.: 3
and so on...

Now, Coastal Carolina is ranked 56. Let's see who they're keeping company with?

William and Mary 37
UMass 41
Western Kentucky 42
Delaware 43
James Madison 44
Youngstown State 54
Coastal Carolina 56
Southern Illinois 60
Lehigh 72

Why again do people consider their SOS to be sooooo bad? Seems to me it is middle of the pack, and almost on par several possible playoff teams, and better than two possible playoff teams.

Do people just not place any credence in Massey or do they just choose to believe what they want?

link (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cf&sub=IAA&mid=6)

Middle of the pack doesn't normally get in the play-offs.

[AppGuy04]

To the Coastal fans. To you deserve or not? I think you do if you win out. It is tough scheduling schools to play, trust me, Elon knows. And it is even tougher to schedule good teams because you are viewed by fans as a no-win situation. They think they have everything to lose by playing you. So you don't get any respect. And you won't

is that why 4 SoCon teams scheduled you guys for their Homecoming, no wait, thats because you guys are horrid

[gophoenix]

Take it to the smack board or keep the posts on topic.

[gophoenix]

I agree with Walliver.... the comittee isn't perfect. They will try to make up for mistakes the year before with choices the next year. If you are a one or two hit wonder and don't have an automatic bid, then chances are, they'll pick a name brand over you. It isn't a perfect system by any means. If you are an independent, then you typically have that working against you as can be seen with any number of indies that had problems over the past 10 years.

[colgate13]

Middle of the pack doesn't normally get in the play-offs.

?

Strength of schedule should not have anything to do with it. I can't find a I-AA only Massey for 2004, but looking at the entire D I list, JMU was at 111, UNH at 102, Delaware 101. GSU is at 138, Furman 146, Lehigh 140, MSU 141, App. St. 156, and Southern Illinois is at 169.

If UD is 101, 56 points higher is 157. Coastal would be right there again. So I think middle of the pack does make it... often.

[TheValleyRaider]

Middle of the pack doesn't normally get in the play-offs.

You mean "Middle of the Pack" like W&M, UMass, WKU, YSU, SIU, and Lehigh? All teams that were around Coastal on that list you quoted, all playoff-caliber teams so far, all with decent chances to get in.

Coastal deserves to get in at 10-1. Hampton deserves at least a home game, if not a seed, given their attendance and record (of course contingent on them finishing 11-0). All you can do is beat the teams put in front of you, and so far, they've done it. I know it's :deadhorse , but sometimes it's gotta be said.

[JALMOND]

C13 says no to SoS and common opponent comparison. Wins don't tell the whole story my friend. That's BCS computer talk.

Colgate was GPI No. 10 at the end of the 2003 regular season. Hampton is No. 16 now and CCU is No. 17. It's a game of inches, right 'Gate?

GPI says playoff field right now:
*1. New Hampshire
*2. Montana
*3. Appalachian St
4. Furman
5. Massachusetts
*6. Texas St
*8. W Kentucky
9. Cal Poly
10. Ga Southern
11. E Washington
12. Montana St
13. S Illinois
14. Youngstown St
*16. Hampton
*24. Lehigh
*26. E Illinois
*= highest ranked team in an autobid conference

Three weeks left...

Good list, Sir Ralph. One big game left for the Big Sky is 11-12 between Montana State and E Washington. The loser could fall out of the top eight at-large list. Of course, Montana State could lose to EWU and then beat Montana and bounce right back to the top eight at-large.

[windwalker]

its sad that these teams get in by default, because their schedules suck and we know they won't lose, thats just ridiculous

Just grow up... opps... you are grown.. just mature a little..

Putting someone else down, does not insure your worth grows..

Coastal has done what it has had to do this year, ( as well as Hampton) so simply give them their due.

[AppGuy04]

Just grow up... opps... you are grown.. just mature a little..

Putting someone else down, does not insure your worth grows..

Coastal has done what it has had to do this year, ( as well as Hampton) so simply give them their due.

i'll give you your trip home after the 1st saturday, thats bout it

[colgate13]

i'll give you your trip home after the 1st saturday, thats bout it

Please have that attitude in the first round of the playoffs. Please.

[colgate13]

C13 says no to SoS and common opponent comparison. Wins don't tell the whole story my friend. That's BCS computer talk.

Colgate was GPI No. 10 at the end of the 2003 regular season. Hampton is No. 16 now and CCU is No. 17. It's a game of inches, right 'Gate?


I don't say no to SoS ralph. I think it only goes so far. I also think I just showed that CCU's SoS isn't nearly as bad as those making grand assumptions would like us to think. It's middle of the pack I-AA. Right along side plenty of teams from 'power' conferences that are either looking for a playoff bid or would have been had they won their games.

Hampton gets an auto, so that's a nonissue. The issue is a seed. If there were four clear cut seeds and 11-0 Hampton, we'd have a different discussion. But there's not. There will be probably 2 clear seeds, 1 pretty clear seed, and 3-4 8-3 teams all clamouring against Hamption's 11-0. Hampton gets it in my book.

Looking at the 2003 comparision, the committee thought a #10 GPI was worthy of a 4 seed. Is 16 or 17 really that much more of a stretch in a season when no one is safe and everyone has been beaten?

[AppGuy04]

Please have that attitude in the first round of the playoffs. Please.

its called confidence, epecially at home, we have won 15 straight

[SoCon48]

Take it to the smack board or keep the posts on topic.

Wait. This is not the board you moderate.

[SoCon48]

?

Strength of schedule should not have anything to do with it. I can't find a I-AA only Massey for 2004, but looking at the entire D I list, JMU was at 111, UNH at 102, Delaware 101. GSU is at 138, Furman 146, Lehigh 140, MSU 141, App. St. 156, and Southern Illinois is at 169.

If UD is 101, 56 points higher is 157. Coastal would be right there again. So I think middle of the pack does make it... often.

This isn't 2004. But anyway, App was 156 and didn't even come close to making it. Southern Illinois 169 and Lehigh 140 "made it" because they were conference champions and proceded to lose in the first round.

If SOS doesn't have anything to do with it, then everyone should load up on Manchesters and boot strong teams out of the conferences.

[Hamptongal]

They will likely be 4 or 5 by the end of the season as many teams will lose at least one game. Even with JMU proving to be a not so quality win they continue their climb, likely above ASU after we lose to LSU. :bang:
I doubt you will move down that much WKU was ranked #1 with their loss to Auburn, it wasn't until the lost to S. Ill. that they moved down. I think that the polls will almost treat this week for you as a bye unless you guys play them well and then you even move up.

[SoCon48]

I doubt you will move down that much WKU was ranked #1 with their loss to Auburn, it wasn't until the lost to S. Ill. that they moved down. I think that the polls will almost treat this week for you as a bye unless you guys play them well and then you even move up.

A bye...we wish. ASU moved down after the Kansas game. In fact moved OUT! :mad:

[bodoyle]

We are gaining on you AppGuy, we got 11 straight. Maybe there should be a return trip made to Conway like we talked about last night. :D

[SoCon48]

its called confidence, epecially at home, we have won 15 straight

Only thing is App fans traditionally haven't really gotten into the play-off thing and don't waste their Thanksgiving weekend on a week's notice sitting in cold KBS, thus our crowd is not really a factor like the regular season games are.

[AppGuy04]

We are gaining on you AppGuy, we got 11 straight. Maybe there should be a return trip made to Conway like we talked about last night. :D
like i said, i don't control it, i just take it one season at a time, hell, one game at a time

[AppGuy04]

Only thing is App fans traditionally haven't really gotten into the play-off thing and don't waste their Thanksgiving weekend sitting in cold KBS, thus our crowd is not really a factor like the regular season games are.

well, i know i'll be there, rain, snow, sleet or shine

i'll bring a turkey leg with me

[SoCon48]

We are gaining on you AppGuy, we got 11 straight. Maybe there should be a return trip made to Conway like we talked about last night. :D


Well since a play-off game is played for free anyway, why not? Except if the NCAA sends us on the road to play a team we already beat, they're nuts.
You boys can go ahead and buy your tickets for Greenville.

But coming to Conway for a $20K gate share during regular season is asinine.
We could make that going down to Hickory and playing Lenoir-Rhyne or over to Mars Hill. Of course the new AD would get canned...

[Hamptongal]

A bye...we wish. ASU moved down after the Kansas game. In fact moved OUT! :mad:
LSU and Kansas aren't exactly comparable D1A teams.
LSU 6-1 only behind Alabama in their conference who is undefeated.
Kansas wait let me think about them for a second.....hmmmm...hmmm....4-4 (1-4) in their conference. Their wins have been over FAU, APP ST, LA Tech and Missouri. That's a big difference. I know you guys played them early in the season but LSU is a perennial powerhouse. Kansas is much better known for their b-ball.

[SoCon48]

LSU and Kansas aren't exactly comparable D1A teams.
LSU 6-1 only behind Alabama in their conference who is undefeated.
Kansas wait let me think about them for a second.....hmmmm...hmmm....4-4 (1-4) in their conference. Their wins have been over FAU, APP ST, LA Tech and Missouri. That's a big difference. I know you guys played them early in the season but LSU is a perennial powerhouse. Kansas is much better known for their b-ball.

In their conference? Yep, you wanna play Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc every week?
They'd still beat the dog crap out of most of I-AA. Including Hampton.

[AppGuy04]

LSU and Kansas aren't exactly comparable D1A teams.
LSU 6-1 only behind Alabama in their conference who is undefeated.
Kansas wait let me think about them for a second.....hmmmm...hmmm....4-4 (1-4) in their conference. Their wins have been over FAU, APP ST, LA Tech and Missouri. That's a big difference. I know you guys played them early in the season but LSU is a perennial powerhouse. Kansas is much better known for their b-ball.

Lets not go over Hampton's schedule

[SoCon48]

Lets not go over Hampton's schedule


:D :D :D

[Hamptongal]

In their conference? Yep, you wanna play Texas, Oklahoma, Nebraska, etc every week?
They'd still beat the dog crap out of most of I-AA. Including Hampton.
They haven't played Texas or Nebraska yet, first of all, and before you all jump on my case I was pointing out that the polls are going to give far more respect to a loss to LSU than they are to Kansas. But that was cute how you all completely misread what I was saying and started jumping on Hampton. I was trying to be supportive when I said that APP ST probably won't fall that far. Hampton's schedule is nowhere near as difficult as APP ST's but I don't think most teams are. :eek:
Please read what I am saying and know your facts before you get on my case, cuz I have facts to back up my comments. :D

[youwouldno]

Why do you think its so important for Furman to win this weekend? First round playoff bye at stake.

[colgate13]

This isn't 2004. But anyway, App was 156 and didn't even come close to making it. Southern Illinois 169 and Lehigh 140 "made it" because they were conference champions and proceded to lose in the first round.

If SOS doesn't have anything to do with it, then everyone should load up on Manchesters and boot strong teams out of the conferences.

But that's not my point.

App didn't make it at 156 because of a 6-5 record. App beats WCU and Chattanooga and maybe you do make the playoffs. And you do it with a SoS that is one measily point better than CCU is this year. To further make the case, CCU would be 10-1 with that SoS, not 8-3.

My point is that CCU has not loaded up on Manchesters. It's playing a middle of the road I-AA schedule and is in position to be 10-1 at the end of that schedule. Making the playoffs should not even be an arguement... unless you think that teams, with similar SoS's but lesser records should make the playoffs. And it would be just because they come from a certain conference. That's I-A thinking.

So I ask again, what is the problem with CCU's SoS? It's just as good as App. St. last year and if App wins their games (like CCU is doing this year and more), they are in the playoffs.

[WMTribe90]

C13,

We will have to argee to disagree. But I still say all wins aren't equal, some value judgements have to be made. These aren't "hypothetical", they may be extrapulated, but they're still based off on-the-field performance.

The fact of the Massey rating showed earlier in this thread is that WM is ranked ahead of CCU by a healthy if not huge margin. This gap will only widen over the last three weeks if both teams win out. CCU's SOS will dip and WM's will rise based on their remaining opponents.

I'm not against schools from the "non-power" conferences making the playoffs, but they still have to earn it. The line is thin, but Hampton deserves a playoff spot and probably a home game if they win out. I don't think they deserve a seed. Cal Poly at 8-3 should be given strong consideration. I have no problem with the top one or two PL teams making it every year. However, CCU is not one of the top 16 palyoff eligible teams in the country based on what they done between the lines this year IMO. The GPI and other ratings support this. By year's end they will be ranked well below any 8-3 team from the SoCon, A10, or BCS.

CCU could have made the playoffs this year with the schedule they played. They didn't take care of business. Sure, every team is allowed one or two off weeks, but CCU has had three or four subpar performance against subpar competition and their margin of error was pretty thin for starters. Kudos to CCU for uprading their schedule and coming a long way in a short time. They're a feel good story. But, letting them into the playoffs this year at the expense of an 8-3 team from the A10 or SoCon would be the real crime.

My suggestion for next year. For starters, play an all DI schedule and drop the DII. That's really going to hurt them this year IMO.

[colgate13]

My suggestion for next year. For starters, play an all DI schedule and drop the DII. That's really going to hurt them this year IMO.

Fair enough.

But as for your last point, couldn't you say that about a good share of teams from 'power' conferences as well? If SoS's are comparable, I wouldn't single out CCU for a D II game when Delaware, Montana, etc have them too.

[AppGuy04]

Fair enough.

But as for your last point, couldn't you say that about a good share of teams from 'power' conferences as well? If SoS's are comparable, I wouldn't single out CCU for a D II game when Delaware, Montana, etc have them too.

Montana and Delaware don't play in the Big South, that changes alot

[WMTribe90]

Average Sagarin rating for CCU's opponents at present (assigned Mansfield rating of 220, which is higher than Savannah and Charles Southern to be generous): 184

Average Sagarin for WM's opponents to date: 149

Assuming WM wins out and CCU finishes at 10-1, the average rating for each teams victories only:

CCU: 194
WM: 157

Are you going to leave the better team home (or at least the one that played the tougher schedule) in the name of "fairness"? What's fair about that? Why should WM be penalized for playing a IA instead of Mansfield?

[SuperJon]

Coastal did not want to play Mansfield. There was another I-AA game there that for one reason or another didn't come about. We signed a 4-year deal with Savannah St before the first game and they wouldn't let us out of it. That's why we have to play those two. If we could get William and Mary instead I can pretty much guarantee we'd take it over those two.

[SoCon48]

But that's not my point.

App didn't make it at 156 because of a 6-5 record. App beats WCU and Chattanooga and maybe you do make the playoffs. And you do it with a SoS that is one measily point better than CCU is this year. To further make the case, CCU would be 10-1 with that SoS, not 8-3.

My point is that CCU has not loaded up on Manchesters. It's playing a middle of the road I-AA schedule and is in position to be 10-1 at the end of that schedule. Making the playoffs should not even be an arguement... unless you think that teams, with similar SoS's but lesser records should make the playoffs. And it would be just because they come from a certain conference. That's I-A thinking.

So I ask again, what is the problem with CCU's SoS? It's just as good as App. St. last year and if App wins their games (like CCU is doing this year and more), they are in the playoffs.

Trouble is, we're playing THIS year's schedule. ASU's schedule is #1 SOS. CSU is 44th. That's 44 "measly" points.
You call CCU's middle of the road. It would be near bottom in the SoCon alone.

[bodoyle]

CCU had no choice other then to play DII Mansfield that week becasue a team we scheduled last year backed out and noone else wanted to play us at that time. Hell we almost lost Mansfield because their coaches almost went on strike, alongwith the rest of whatever conference they are in.

I, personally, find it amusing that after last year, and before this year, people said if we go 10-1 this year that we deserve to make the playoffs because we would have played better competition with fewer home games etc. Unless pigs fly, it looks like we will go 10-1, and now it seems that people are shi**ing a brick that we went 10-1 and they are recanting on previous statements. It seems to me that we can go 10-1 for the next 10 years, and it wouldnt' matter who we played we wouldn't deserve to make it in.

App App App, we're :deadhorse here. There isn't anything we can do about being in the Big South. We have made it very vocal that we want to join the SoCon, a "real" conference, but they don't seem to know up from down right about now. First they are looking to expand, then they are not, then they are yadda yadda yadda.

[bodoyle]

Sorry Jon didn't mean to be redundant off your post

[colgate13]

Trouble is, we're playing THIS year's schedule. ASU's schedule is #1 SOS. CSU is 44th. That's 44 "measly" points.
You call CCU's middle of the road. It would be near bottom in the SoCon alone.

Man, are we having two different conversations. The arguement isn't if CCU should go in place of ASU. It's in place of someone who was in a similar situation as ASU last year. Apples and oranges my friend.

As for your confidence in CCU's schedule vs. the SoCon:

Massey SoS rankings
App. St. 2
Furman 25
Georgia Southern 13
Wofford 12
WCU 11
UTC 19
Citadel 1
Elon 39

You're right on. No arguement from me. But again, this isn't CCU vs. ASU. It's CCU vs. 8 other potential at-large bids. Let's look at the Gateway

WKU 42
SIU 60
YSU 54
ISU 21
UNI 36
Missouri State 45
WIU 26

So in the gateway, Coastal would not be the lowest. It would be in the same range as YSU and SIU. So if either of those teams was 10-1 without an autobid, would we be saying they should sit at home come playoff time in place of an 8-3 SoCon team or A-10 team? I really doubt it. And if that's the case, it's all based on conference association and not SoS.

[SoCon48]

CCU had no choice other then to play DII Mansfield that week becasue a team we scheduled last year backed out and noone else wanted to play us at that time. Hell we almost lost Mansfield because their coaches almost went on strike, alongwith the rest of whatever conference they are in.

I, personally, find it amusing that after last year, and before this year, people said if we go 10-1 this year that we deserve to make the playoffs because we would have played better competition with fewer home games etc. Unless pigs fly, it looks like we will go 10-1, and now it seems that people are shi**ing a brick that we went 10-1 and they are recanting on previous statements. It seems to me that we can go 10-1 for the next 10 years, and it wouldnt' matter who we played we wouldn't deserve to make it in.

App App App, we're :deadhorse here. There isn't anything we can do about being in the Big South. We have made it very vocal that we want to join the SoCon, a "real" conference, but they don't seem to know up from down right about now. First they are looking to expand, then they are not, then they are yadda yadda yadda.
Don't recall them saying since Elon came in that they were looking to expand. Several schools have expressed interest in joining.
Currently have an interim commish. Previous commisioner Morrison said nothing about adding another school and neither has the interim Gabe.
Some individual schools may have expressed favorite prospects..like Samford, Hampton, UNC-W, etc.
Coastal's name first came up when THEY sent a packet of info to the SoCon while Morrison was in charge.

[NC Aggie]

I am not familiar with that poll, but there are many deserving teams other than Coastal. Strength of schedule is suspect. They probably wouldn't get past the first round unless they played San Diego.

[SoCon48]

Man, are we having two different conversations. The arguement isn't if CCU should go in place of ASU. It's in place of someone who was in a similar situation as ASU last year. Apples and oranges my friend.

As for your confidence in CCU's schedule vs. the SoCon:

Massey SoS rankings
App. St. 2
Furman 25
Georgia Southern 13
Wofford 12
WCU 11
UTC 19
Citadel 1
Elon 39

You're right on. No arguement from me. But again, this isn't CCU vs. ASU. It's CCU vs. 8 other potential at-large bids. Let's look at the Gateway

WKU 42
SIU 60
YSU 54
ISU 21
UNI 36
Missouri State 45
WIU 26

So in the gateway, Coastal would not be the lowest. It would be in the same range as YSU and SIU. So if either of those teams was 10-1 without an autobid, would we be saying they should sit at home come playoff time in place of an 8-3 SoCon team or A-10 team? I really doubt it. And if that's the case, it's all based on conference association and not SoS.
You had mentioned ASU in your post about SOS and again about them being 1 pt from ASU's SOS.
If App doesn't get the auto bid in the SoCon (by losing to Furman and say WCU) coupled with losses to LSU and Kansas. ASU could very likely be staying home if the committee chooses Coastal from the south. Thus losses to the team who beat the present #1 Furman , and to the #1 Furman, coupled with the losses to Kansas and LSU would keep ASU at home..or sent way the H on the road..while the team they beat by 27 and boasting wins over Liberty 3 OT , unranked JMU, bottom feeder Elon, and almost unranked SC State..goes???
Whatever.

[bodoyle]

If you would like I can post the links to all the newspaper articles and message board posts, but it will take a while

[SoCon48]

If you would like I can post the links to all the newspaper articles and message board posts, but it will take a while

Message board posts from the SoCon administration?? That would be great. I've never seen one about anything on a message board from a SoCon official.

The only newspaper articles quoting SoCon officials that I've seen are quoting the SoCon officials as saying they weren't looking for new members at present. Sure some WRITERS have mentioned Coastal and others lobbying the SoCon, but not vice versa involving SoCon officials, that I've seen.
If you can find ONE, after Elon's admittance, it would be interesting.

[bodoyle]

I-AA: Plenty of articles where the writer asked a SoCon official if they were looking and they replied "Yes".

The message board comment was about people who said before that if we went 10-1 again we were a shoe-in for the playoffs. Not about the SoCon.

[SoCon48]

I-AA: Plenty of articles where the writer asked a SoCon official if they were looking and they replied "Yes".

The message board comment was about people who said before that if we went 10-1 again we were a shoe-in for the playoffs. Not about the SoCon.

I'd love to see one of the "plenty of articles". Not doubting your word, just haven't seen one.

[gophoenix]

I'd be interested in seeing in articles about expansion too. I try to stay pretty informed with the movement of the conference and read up on comments in the press.

Personally, I haven't seen anything about expansion in an official manner. I have only heard of the ETSU replacement, which isn't expansion.

In fact, I talked to a few conference officials last year who said that the membership wanted to keep a 12 team league.

I have HEARD, though nothing official or in print, that there is one way we could see expansion. We'll see if that pans out.

[bodoyle]

I will effort it for you guys. Gimme a day or so

[rokamortis]

I have HEARD, though nothing official or in print, that there is one way we could see expansion. We'll see if that pans out.

What would that be? If you can't give the details can you give us a hint? I'll take a guess and say if the MEAC decides to play in a SWAN / MEAC championship.

[gophoenix]

I don't like saying it because I can't give solid evidence, so keep this as unsubstantiated for now.

What I have heard is that the SoCon wants an ETSU replacement. BUT, if UNCW seriously wants in, we expand to 14. So, UNCW is the key to the expansion deal, otherwise, it won't happen. But this was all back when Morrison was commish. A new commish could push the conference in a totally new direction.

[rokamortis]

I don't like saying it because I can't give solid evidence, so keep this as unsubstantiated for now.

What I have heard is that the SoCon wants an ETSU replacement. BUT, if UNCW seriously wants in, we expand to 14. So, UNCW is the key to the expansion deal, otherwise, it won't happen. But this was all back when Morrison was commish. A new commish could push the conference in a totally new direction.

Ok - that has been talked about a little here and there.

Any word on when the SoCon will get a commish? It has been taking a long time.

[Thumper250]

I would say its a good idea if Wilmington adds football, but they won't do that. That would give Coastal its most natural of rivalries ... an hour away up the coast. But UNCW is one of the most poorly funded schools in the system, particularly in athletics. So I wouldn't think foozball is on their agenda ever.

There's a huge push on bringing football back at ETSU, but I doubt it ever gets off the ground.

[OL FU]

Has anyone noticed that CCU threads are longer than their football history.

[gophoenix]

But UNCW is one of the most poorly funded schools in the system, particularly in athletics. So I wouldn't think foozball is on their agenda ever.

That's not entirely true. There has been talk and some sort of study done. Though that was about 5 years ago, about the same time UNCC did theirs.

[SoCon48]

I would say its a good idea if Wilmington adds football, but they won't do that. That would give Coastal its most natural of rivalries ... an hour away up the coast. But UNCW is one of the most poorly funded schools in the system, particularly in athletics. So I wouldn't think foozball is on their agenda ever.

There's a huge push on bringing football back at ETSU, but I doubt it ever gets off the ground.

I would say getting College of Chuck to add football would be an even better natural rival for CCU. But that's not gonna happen.

UNC-Wilmington, with its enrollment and the City of Wilmington to draw from could create a strong program.

[colgate13]

Has anyone noticed that CCU threads are longer than their football history.

:lmao:

very true. They are a passionate bunch! I think it means good things for them... :nod:

[AppGuy04]

:lmao:

very true. They are a passionate bunch! I think it means good things for them... :nod:

fans don't play ;)

[bodoyle]

Ol FU: But both are great!

[colgate13]

fans don't play ;)

But a solid fan base means good things for a young program IMO.

[AppGuy04]

But a solid fan base means good things for a young program IMO.

i know, i was F-in with ya

but I have heard some Coastal fans on here that they think their fans are tame at times

[colgate13]

i know, i was F-in with ya

F-in with me? How dare you! I'm a married man!

:p

[AppGuy04]

F-in with me? How dare you! I'm a married man!

:p

good for you, but i'm not going there

[rokamortis]

Look at who posts - pretty certain the majority of posts do not come from CCU fans.

[SoCon48]

Look at who posts - pretty certain the majority of posts do not come from CCU fans.
U may be right. You only have 1,023 yourself, '89 950 something, and Lapper in the 500's. That's only 2500 + or - between the three of you. Of course you haven't been on here as long as many others.

[bodoyle]

We are tame AppGuy. Most of us keep it pretty calm and low-key on here.

[CoastalFan2005]

I like to stir $h!t up every now and then, though, ;)

I am of course (halfway) kidding about that.

And look at my post count...what am I, up to 32 now? Woo hoo! My posts are "more cool than all the other cools." (I'll still give major props to anyone that can figure out where that quote is from, lol)

[SoCon48]

I will effort it for you guys. Gimme a day or so

Found anything yet?

[bodoyle]

Sorry I-AA: been a little busy at work recently. Unofficial-official moves that people forget to tell me about. :mad: :bang:

[CCU2003]

Alright yall….hold on to your Cheerios! This actually made me spit up this morning….Now we all know that us Chanticleer fans can get worked up about stuff…but this…this is incredible…even for me…..goodness gracious….

(NOTE: To fans of all other I-AA teams, please view the following article for amusement purposes only, do not ingest as sensible reporting….please!)

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/myrtlebeachonline/sports/13080468.htm


You've been warned!!!

[CCU2003]

Well I guess the guy is reporting facts……but what the hell are we thinking? Sure it never hurts to throw a bid out, but seriously? What the hell are we thinking?

[OL FU]

Well I guess the guy is reporting facts……but what the hell are we thinking? Sure it never hurts to throw a bid out, but seriously? What the hell are we thinking?

I don't see anything wrong with it. It's worth a try.

[CCU2003]

I know OL FU, thats why i put my second post up....but what do you think the odds on that one are? Not even considering the odds of us getting in with one of the at large? I think its my brain struggling to compute the odds that makes me regurgitate my breakfast....Its not a slam or anything, I just don't handle numbers that big real well....:)

[AppGuy04]

longshot at best, if for no other reason than the seating capacity

[grizband]

Imagine the boost the CCU program would get if they were granted a first round home game, and they pulled it out (sell out, good crowd, winning the game, etc). That would help the future expansion of the program, as well as the marketability.

[AppGuy04]

Imagine the boost the CCU program would get if they were granted a first round home game, and they pulled it out (sell out, good crowd, winning the game, etc). That would help the future expansion of the program, as well as the marketability.

yeah, but with their current situation, i don't see it happening

[rokamortis]

You can't win the lottery if you don't buy a ticket!

[SoCon48]

Imagine the boost the CCU program would get if they were granted a first round home game, and they pulled it out (sell out, good crowd, winning the game, etc). That would help the future expansion of the program, as well as the marketability.


Sell out crowd? Much easier for them than most considering the first rounds at most schools with the students gone fro fall break/Thanksgiving is in the 4-7,000 range. I think they seat 7,500 at CCU.
Plus they have the tremendous enthusiasm the new program engenders.

Marketability? They have no problem with that. The media in the area is saying they would greatly benefit the SoCon, if admitted, based largely on their win over last place Elon and ex-member VMI (VMI left because they felt they could be more competitve in the Big South).

Regardless, CCU has the foundation to be successful eventually in any conference. More "sooner" than later.

[SuperJon]

The seating capacity is the biggest problem. With the hill, and standing room stuff, we can have a little over 8500 I think.

The beach at Thanksgiving would be very appealing to a lot of people, and if it's a night game, many of the students will be back, and they very well may be back if it's during the day because that's the day dorms open back up.

[New CCU Fan]

yeah, but with their current situation, i don't see it happening
AppGuy04, I'm sure you will humor me here, but what "current situation" are you specifically referring to?

- We are winning, despite our loss of... ok I'm gonna say it, watch out! 30-3 whoopin by ASU.
- We are ranked, despite many people's opinions of that, it is a fact.
- We did, to the best of our last minute scheduling ability, increase our strength of schedule over 2004, despite teams pulling themselves off our 2005 schedule and kinda messing up what would have been a full I-AA schedule against better competition.
- We have produced in 3 years, what most would consider pretty amazing results, despite our youth and lack of years having a strong national presence of football tradition.

.......what "current situation" are you specifically referring to? Not trying to be dense here, just curious what defines your statement.

[SoCon48]

The seating capacity is the biggest problem. With the hill, and standing room stuff, we can have a little over 8500 I think.

The beach at Thanksgiving would be very appealing to a lot of people, and if it's a night game, many of the students will be back, and they very well may be back if it's during the day because that's the day dorms open back up.

Most schools who average 15 to 20,000 for reg season games fit into the 4-7,000 draw range for the first round.

Thus seating capacity shouldn't be a drawback for CCU whatsover.

BTW. True seating capacity, you know, is the actual permanent seats. Thus ASU, for example has 16,550. Not the 23,000 it has actually drawn on occasions.

[AppGuy04]

AppGuy04, I'm sure you will humor me here, but what "current situation" are you specifically referring to?

- We are winning, despite our loss of... ok I'm gonna say it, watch out! 30-3 whoopin by ASU.
- We are ranked, despite many people's opinions of that, it is a fact.
- We did, to the best of our last minute scheduling ability, increase our strength of schedule over 2004, despite teams pulling themselves off our 2005 schedule and kinda messing up what would have been a full I-AA schedule against better competition.
- We have produced in 3 years, what most would consider pretty amazing results, despite our youth and lack of years having a strong national presence of football tradition.

.......what "current situation" are you specifically referring to? Not trying to be dense here, just curious what defines your statement.

the seating capacity, if you go back and read my posts, you wouldn't have to ask and get all jacked up

[New CCU Fan]

the seating capacity, if you go back and read my posts, you wouldn't have to ask and get all jacked up
I wasn't jacked up...I promise. I think you're a good guy, I just added what appeared to be positive things about CCU because it kinda came across as though something really negative was going on that maybe I had missed somewhere else.

Yes, I saw seating capacity, but when you said "current situation" I thought you were referring to something else. No harm...I wasn't trying to start anything.

[CCU2003]

Man….what a dream….a first round game at CCU…..we’re all fat off turkey, nice cool breeze blowing across our cemetery……chick-fil-a for everybody! Man, could you imagine 2000+ on the hill? I think it would sink back into the swamp from which it was raised…..seriously though, a great dream, but I think that’s all it will be until we throw up a few more block o’ bleachers on our visitor side….. :D

[bodoyle]

:eek: A 1st round game at ccu? I read that online at about 4am, and i thoguht i had a lot of sleep in my eyes. do mine eyes deceive me? that would be great. A nice drive down (ballpark) 80 to 65 to 64 to 40 to 20 to 501 fun fun.

iaa: sorry gunna be a while on those articles, my pc decided to do a system recovery and lose everything.

[AppGuy04]

sorry boys, but if you do get a home game, i'll be up in boone freezing my ass off