Patriot League - Week 4

[carney2]

Friday, September 19

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard
7:00 PM


Saturday, September 20

GEORGETOWN @ Yale
12:30 PM

FORDHAM @ Columbia
12:30 PM

Dartmouth @ COLGATE
1:00 PM

Cornell @ BUCKNELL
6:00 PM

LAFAYETTE: Bye

LEHIGH: Bye

Week 3 performance, if you can call it that:

(I made a pact with myself that I'd keep my opinions to myself in this opening of each week's thread, but this was such an abysmal performance from top to bottom that it deserves what it gets.)

Villanova 33, LEHIGH 14. Pretty much as expected. The Lehigh faithful had been waiting for this one since the spring to see what they have. Some of them even predicted/hoped that this would be the "Lehigh is back" game. They aren't.

Furman 42, COLGATE 21. Like Lehigh, the Felons were in over their heads. Like Lehigh, they barely put up a fight.

Dayton 23, FORDHAM 20. An embarrassment for the Rams. An embarrassment for the League. The noise out of The Bronx last week was that Fordham is even better than last year. Based on this performance the only thing standing between these guys and oblivion is their cupcake schedule.

BUCKNELL 17, Robert Morris 14. A squeaker win over a middle of the pack team from a bad conference.

LAFAYETTE 24, Georgetown 6. IMHO, an uninspired and unispiring performance by the Leopards despite creating some impressive stats. Some holes to get after during the bye week. For instance, pass protection, running game outside of tackle, and even some lapses by their much ballyhooed defense.

Lafayette 24, GEORGETOWN 6. In the other half of this game, the Hoyas are the only Patriot League team to get a thumbs up from me this week. They showed better than expected - or at least better than I expected. The have some speed on both sides of the ball; the two headed QB system worked well, with both performers contributing; they were able to make some defensive stands; and they were the only team on the field with real "life" in the second half. Based on this 60 minutes I'm saying that the Hoyas will do better than expected the rest of the way.

The Patriot League is now 8-5 vs. OOCs.

Feel free to disagree. You always do.

[ngineer]

Yes, not a good week for the PL...even the wins were uninspiring...I do agree with your analysis. I watched most the Leopard's game on TV, and agree that G'town definitely appeared improved. I think Frank was also 'upset' with the effort based on the sideline interview. It may have been a mental thing, though, in taking the Hoyas lightly. However, they stuck around and showed if taken lightly they can make life difficult.
Lehigh and Colgate's performances also showed the gap between the PL and the 'elite' conferences (CAA and SoCon), and Fordham self destructed.
Bucknell struggled to win. Holy Cross had a good week...xrolleyesx

[ngineer]

Looking ahead, I'll go with the following:

Holy Cross to eek out a win over Harvard, 38-35.

G'town will be scrappy, but over their heads in New Haven. Yale, 31-13.

Fordham will take out their frustrations on the Lowly Lions, 42-17.

Dartmouth will be surprisingly tough, but fall to the 'gate, 27-22

Cornell hands Bucknell it's first loss, 28-21.

Lafayette sharpens their pencils for 'pen'

Lehigh searches for the number of Villanova bus.

[carney2]

I was going to wait until my disgust with Week 3 results settled down, but no, let 'er rip. Direct from my liver to you:

Will the mere approval of football scholarships clean up this mess?

Do you think that any of the Patriot League presidents pulled their noses from their 24th reading of Plato in the original Greek to notice that their football programs have become a national joke?

Those of you PLers who see making the playoffs as a big deal would have been the Christians in ancient Rome who said, "Cheer up, guys, we get to appear in the Coliseum."

Oh well, let's take a look at Week 4 of what one of my friends, a fan of an FBS team, calls club football:

Friday, September 19

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard Harvard Randolph & Co. got my attention two weeks ago. Still, this is a very good Harvard team - albeit in their first game - against a Patriot League team.

Saturday, September 20

GEORGETOWN @ Yale Yale As many kudos as Georgetown received and deserved in their first two games, this is an Eli of a different color.

FORDHAM @ Columbia Fordham The Fordhamians should be setting the table to wolf down their 3rd cupcake in a row. They choked on the second one. With seriously waning respect, I pick Fordham.

Dartmouth @ COLGATE Colgate As a top tier team in the Patriot League, you would think that the Felons can handle an Ivy bottom feeder at home. You would think.

Cornell @ BUCKNELL Cornell I'm too enraged to even give KenZ a zinger.

LAFAYETTE: Bye The world is waiting to see if the Leopards phone it in again. If yes, I'm picking Bye.

LEHIGH: Bye The guys that make the early line note that the Squawks are in the Patriot League, and have therefore installed Bye as a 2 touchdown favorite.

[colorless raider]

Yes, not a good week for the PL...even the wins were uninspiring...I do agree with your analysis. I watched most the Leopard's game on TV, and agree that G'town definitely appeared improved. I think Frank was also 'upset' with the effort based on the sideline interview. It may have been a mental thing, though, in taking the Hoyas lightly. However, they stuck around and showed if taken lightly they can make life difficult.
Lehigh and Colgate's performances also showed the gap between the PL and the 'elite' conferences (CAA and SoCon), and Fordham self destructed.
Bucknell struggled to win. Holy Cross had a good week...xrolleyesx

Talent gap!! When you see Furman you can see the "gap" is getting wider. We are down the tubes without scholarships. You loyal fans better get after your administrations and support what Colgate and Fordham are trying to get accomplishedxnonox -SCHOLARSHIPS!!

[DFW HOYA]

Yes, not a good week for the PL...even the wins were uninspiring...I do agree with your analysis. I watched most the Leopard's game on TV, and agree that G'town definitely appeared improved.

Improvement? So it was 24-6 instead of 48-6? That's faint praise. The defense has always been underrated, esp. when they're not on the field 35-40 minutes a game. But it was still a three play offense with an undersized line (260 lb. average) and a spotty kicking game (missed PAT, missed field goals).

As Tavani correctly put it, Laf should have been up 21-0 at the half. Then again, this was the same fellow that called time out in the final minute up 17-6 to add another touchdown, so sportsmanship went out the window for him on that one. If he pulled that on Colgate or Lehigh people would be up in arms, but since it's only Georgetown, it's a yawner.

[carney2]

Talent gap!! When you see Furman you can see the "gap" is getting wider. We are down the tubes without scholarships. You loyal fans better get after your administrations and support what Colgate and Fordham are trying to get accomplishedxnonox -SCHOLARSHIPS!!

I guess I'm out of touch. When did Fordham pick up the football scholarship banner and run to the head of the pack? I missed that memo.

[DFW HOYA]

Among the five voting members, who exactly is holding up this issue? Assuming, of course, that a PL president wouldn't say one thing and vote another way...

[carney2]

Improvement? So it was 24-6 instead of 48-6? That's faint praise.

Tavani called time out in the final minute up 17-6 to add another touchdown.

You have to walk before you can run.

I was also surprised that Tavani tacked on that last, meaningless touchdown. When he called the timeout with 50 or so seconds remaining and the ball resting on the Georgetown 1, I assumed that he was concerned with losing control, and wanted to be certain that everyone knew it was take a knee time. Turns out he wanted more. Would like to hear his answer to a serious interviewer asking "Why?"

[carney2]

Among the five voting members, who exactly is holding up this issue? Assuming, of course, that a PL president wouldn't say one thing and vote another way...

Procedurally, is it a certainty that there are only 5 "voting members?" Why would Georgetown and Fordham not get votes since this affects them as much as everyone else? With overall Patriot League issues at stake here, why would Army, Navy and American not be involved in some way?

As for the "5," you know the conventional wisdom as well as I:

Bucknell: Will not allow the other 3 "core schools" get away from them, but expect no leadership.

Colgate: On record as favoring football scholarships.

Holy Cross: Over Fr. McFarland's (President Michael C. McFarland, S.J.) dead body.

Lafayette: Probably would support, but will not lead.

Lehigh: Very confused and confusing. The following quote from a poster today on the Lehigh Message Board: "Neither Alice [President Alice Gast], nor Sterret [AD and former Lehigh QB, Joe Sterrett] will back scholarships ever." Who knows if this guy has actual information, but it shows a slice of opinion at Lehigh.

Since the presidents admire the Ivy League model, expect them to seek "consensus" before anything happens. In other words, not anytime soon.

[Ken_Z]

Do you think that any of the Patriot League presidents pulled their noses from their 24th reading of Plato in the original Greek to notice that their football programs have become a national joke?

i believe several presidents only read the translation as the original texts were banished from campus as they attempted to exorcise everything Greek.


Cornell @ BUCKNELL Cornell I'm too enraged to even give KenZ a zinger.

well that's a letdown. only reason i tuned in this early was to see what zing you had to offer. i'll try not to let you down when i submit later this week.

[DetroitFlyer]

Wow, it is just so cool to read about the demise of the PL knowing that my Flyers are mentioned as a prime contributor. Reading this thread, one would think the PL should be on a par with Southern Cal. I just cannot wait until Fordham repeats as your champion and all of you whiners have to live with the fact that your best lost to the Flyers for a second straight year. SWEET!!!!!!!! Frankly, I would have been embarassed if my Flyers lost to a PL team.

Amazing to me that the FBS wanabee virus continues to spread like wildfire through the PL fans that post here.

Dayton absolutely earned a hard fought victory yesterday and Fordham should have no shame in losing to the Flyers.

Continue to exhibit the symptoms of your FBS virus by putting down the PFL and the Flyers. I will just continue to chuckle knowing my boys simply get er done where it counts, on the field! GO FLYERS!!!!!

[crusader11]

Frankly, I would have been embarassed if my Flyers lost to a PL team.



Do you honestly believe this?

Also, Fordham, in my opinion, is the third best team in the league behind HC and Lafayette. So I doubt you will get the pleasure of being able to say that Dayton is better than the PL champion.

[LehighFan11]

Wow, it is just so cool to read about the demise of the PL knowing that my Flyers are mentioned as a prime contributor. Reading this thread, one would think the PL should be on a par with Southern Cal. I just cannot wait until Fordham repeats as your champion and all of you whiners have to live with the fact that your best lost to the Flyers for a second straight year. SWEET!!!!!!!! Frankly, I would have been embarassed if my Flyers lost to a PL team.

Amazing to me that the FBS wanabee virus continues to spread like wildfire through the PL fans that post here.

Dayton absolutely earned a hard fought victory yesterday and Fordham should have no shame in losing to the Flyers.

Continue to exhibit the symptoms of your FBS virus by putting down the PFL and the Flyers. I will just continue to chuckle knowing my boys simply get er done where it counts, on the field! GO FLYERS!!!!!

That is completely wrong, of course the PL wants to compete with the CAA and other national teams, but a PL team hasn't played a FBS team since Buffalo if im not wrong.

[Go...gate]

Yes, not a good week for the PL...even the wins were uninspiring...I do agree with your analysis. I watched most the Leopard's game on TV, and agree that G'town definitely appeared improved. I think Frank was also 'upset' with the effort based on the sideline interview. It may have been a mental thing, though, in taking the Hoyas lightly. However, they stuck around and showed if taken lightly they can make life difficult.
Lehigh and Colgate's performances also showed the gap between the PL and the 'elite' conferences (CAA and SoCon), and Fordham self destructed.
Bucknell struggled to win. Holy Cross had a good week...xrolleyesx

IMO, you are right on target. xnodx xsmhx

[CrusaderBob]

Among the five voting members, who exactly is holding up this issue? Assuming, of course, that a PL president wouldn't say one thing and vote another way...

Without pulling out the policy manual to quote chapter and verse ...

The rule prohibiting football scholarships is an operational bylaw of the league.

All members that participate in sports affected by the operational bylaw change get a vote. That includes associate members. Those not impacted by the change do not get a vote.

It takes a simple majority vote to change operational bylaws.

So in the case of football scholarships, the 7 football playing schools get a vote and it will take 4 votes to approve scholarships.

[DFW HOYA]

It takes a simple majority vote to change operational bylaws. So in the case of football scholarships, the 7 football playing schools get a vote and it will take 4 votes to approve scholarships.

Ok, with that clarification, it appears that there are already four schools (and likely a couple more) that would sign off on scholarships, with HC being the public holdout; yet, no movement is seen on the issue. The Cross isn't going to leave the league if the PL adds schoalrships, and the autobid won't be lost. So if one assumes Colgate, Fordham, Lehigh and Lafayette are on board for this, why hasn't it passed?

[carney2]

Ok, with that clarification, it appears that there are already four schools (and likely a couple more) that would sign off on scholarships, with HC being the public holdout; yet, no movement is seen on the issue. The Cross isn't going to leave the league if the PL adds schoalrships, and the autobid won't be lost. So if one assumes Colgate, Fordham, Lehigh and Lafayette are on board for this, why hasn't it passed?

A lot of assumptions on your part, DFW. To wit:

1. That the 4 you mention are "on board."

2. That the point has been reached where it would be put to a vote.

3. That the Ivy Model of searching for a consensus has been scrapped in favor of a simple majority.

[Go...gate]

Just got finished reading a post on the PL board by a 1980 Colgate grad who asked and was told by our AD that FB scholarships "are inevitable".

[ngineer]

Wow, it is just so cool to read about the demise of the PL knowing that my Flyers are mentioned as a prime contributor. Reading this thread, one would think the PL should be on a par with Southern Cal. I just cannot wait until Fordham repeats as your champion and all of you whiners have to live with the fact that your best lost to the Flyers for a second straight year. SWEET!!!!!!!! Frankly, I would have been embarassed if my Flyers lost to a PL team.

Amazing to me that the FBS wanabee virus continues to spread like wildfire through the PL fans that post here.
Dayton absolutely earned a hard fought victory yesterday and Fordham should have no shame in losing to the Flyers.

Continue to exhibit the symptoms of your FBS virus by putting down the PFL and the Flyers. I will just continue to chuckle knowing my boys simply get er done where it counts, on the field! GO FLYERS!!!!!

What the hell are you talking about? No one has ever envisioned the PL as FBS wannabees. I'm glad you enjoyed your victory, but if you believe it was 'earned', it's only because Dayton made fewer mistakes. Fordham will not be the PL champ this year, IMO. Holy Cross, with a win at Harvard this week, will likely be viewed as on the inside track.

[ngineer]

I've heard nothing to indicate that anyone, other than Colgate is 'really' interested in going scholarship. Lehigh's president, to me, seems like a follower on this one, but not sure who. I am afraid, the presidents of the PL prefer to be 'Ivy-like' rather than getting into what is perceived as an acceleration of costs to go scholaraship. We already know that you can have quality of academics maintained. Lehigh's wrestling team since going scholarship has increased its academic standing signifcantly.

[DetroitFlyer]

What the hell are you talking about? No one has ever envisioned the PL as FBS wannabees. I'm glad you enjoyed your victory, but if you believe it was 'earned', it's only because Dayton made fewer mistakes. Fordham will not be the PL champ this year, IMO. Holy Cross, with a win at Harvard this week, will likely be viewed as on the inside track.


On the PL Championship.... We shall see. My money is on Fordham until proven otherwise....

The "virus" I spoke of is simply yearning for your team or conference to be more than it is because of some perceived shortcoming. In addition, it causes fans to put down other teams or conferences to make them feel better about their "wannabee" team or conference. For most of AGS, that is the FBS wannabee virus. It manifests itself by fans putting down teams and conferences that they believe to be "inferior" for some reason. Of course these same fans are the very first to cry foul when some FBS fan calls their program "small time". It is really very funny to watch the hypocrisy! Frankly, I am saddened that the virus has caught on in the PL.... There is such fear among many of you that the NEC and PFL now have teams that can compete with the PL that you are all convinced that "going scholarship" is the only way to maintain your edge.... No credit is given whatsoever to the PFL for some of its teams improving greatly over years. You throw a bone to the NEC because they now provide scholarships. Well, just in case you forgot, the PFL champion defeated both the PL champion and the NEC champion last season, with ZERO athletic scholarships. Interesting is it not, that the PFL teams can improve while the PL teams can no longer compete....

[letsgopards04]

Friday, September 19

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard Holy Cross
7:00 PM


Saturday, September 20

GEORGETOWN @ Yale Yale
12:30 PM

FORDHAM @ Columbia Columbia
12:30 PM

Dartmouth @ COLGATE 'Gate
1:00 PM

Cornell @ BUCKNELL Cornell
6:00 PM

[Fordham]

Holy Cross
Yale
Fordham
Colgate
Cornell

Rough week for the Rams but beware anyone who thinks we won't be in the mix due to this loss. First off, I went to the URI game and watched the Dayton one from tip to tail. Dayton is a much better team than many are giving them credit for. No one causes us to make more miscues than that team. They're tough, hard nosed, disciplined kids and, perhaps most important after watching both games, imo they are considerably better than URI. I know URI's young, and I don't mean disrespect (and I know they played well v. UNH) but other than their punter, we dominated them completely on both sides of the ball. We played extremely conservative in that game on O and Skelton was a bit off ... otherwise, that game should have been 28 or 35 - 0 imo.

This one stings (partially because I know we'll never hear the end of it here) but give Dayton their due. They're just good. Not 'good for a non scholarship team' imo but just good.

[colorless raider]

I've heard nothing to indicate that anyone, other than Colgate is 'really' interested in going scholarship. Lehigh's president, to me, seems like a follower on this one, but not sure who. I am afraid, the presidents of the PL prefer to be 'Ivy-like' rather than getting into what is perceived as an acceleration of costs to go scholaraship. We already know that you can have quality of academics maintained. Lehigh's wrestling team since going scholarship has increased its academic standing signifcantly.

I hope Colgate bolts the League or pulls a "Holy Cross" and offers scholarships and let the rest flounder as they will.

[LUHawker]

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard: Harvard

GEORGETOWN @ Yale: Yale

FORDHAM @ Columbia Fordham

Dartmouth @ COLGATE: Colgate

Cornell @ BUCKNELL: Cornell

Not a good-looking week against the Ivies.

[LUHawker]

I hope Colgate bolts the League or pulls a "Holy Cross" and offers scholarships and let the rest flounder as they will.

I hope Colgate does it as well because I think it will provide the requisite wake-up call for the league and I think Lehigh, Lafayette and Fordham would follow suit at a minimum.

I think Lehigh's prezy is too new to drive the bus on this one, but I suspect she could be persuaded with a bold move, should Colgate make it.

Here's to hoping.

[DFW HOYA]

The "virus" I spoke of is simply yearning for your team or conference to be more than it is because of some perceived shortcoming. In addition, it causes fans to put down other teams or conferences to make them feel better about their "wannabee" team or conference. For most of AGS, that is the FBS wannabee virus. It manifests itself by fans putting down teams and conferences that they believe to be "inferior" for some reason. Of course these same fans are the very first to cry foul when some FBS fan calls their program "small time". It is really very funny to watch the hypocrisy! Frankly, I am saddened that the virus has caught on in the PL.... There is such fear among many of you that the NEC and PFL now have teams that can compete with the PL that you are all convinced that "going scholarship" is the only way to maintain your edge.... No credit is given whatsoever to the PFL for some of its teams improving greatly over years. You throw a bone to the NEC because they now provide scholarships. Well, just in case you forgot, the PFL champion defeated both the PL champion and the NEC champion last season, with ZERO athletic scholarships. Interesting is it not, that the PFL teams can improve while the PL teams can no longer compete...

Your post is confusing. Is your contention that the PL isn't as good by means of comparison, or inability to impvove?

[DetroitFlyer]

Your post is confusing. Is your contention that the PL isn't as good by means of comparison, or inability to impvove?

One of my points is that programs like Dayton, San Diego and to a lesser extent, Morehead State and maybe Drake and Davidson have been able to improve in the world of FCS without athletic scholarships. The conventional wisdom on this board it that your program or conference is a joke if you do not offer athletic scholarships, (unless you are the Ivy League and some here even hammer them).... Did anyone notice that Morehead State lost a close game to 2007 FCS playoff team Eastern Kentucky 16-8? How can that be...? EKU = 63 athletic scholarships, MSU = 0 athletic scholarships.... Maybe there is more to a successful FCS program than athletic scholarships....

[colorless raider]

One of my points is that programs like Dayton, San Diego and to a lesser extent, Morehead State and maybe Drake and Davidson have been able to improve in the world of FCS without athletic scholarships. The conventional wisdom on this board it that your program or conference is a joke if you do not offer athletic scholarships, (unless you are the Ivy League and some here even hammer them).... Did anyone notice that Morehead State lost a close game to 2007 FCS playoff team Eastern Kentucky 16-8? How can that be...? EKU = 63 athletic scholarships, MSU = 0 athletic scholarships.... Maybe there is more to a successful FCS program than athletic scholarships....

SAT's at Morehead State please.

[LCFan21]

Friday, September 19

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard
7:00 PM


Saturday, September 20

GEORGETOWN @ Yale
12:30 PM

FORDHAM @ Columbia
12:30 PM

Dartmouth @ COLGATE
1:00 PM

Cornell @ BUCKNELL
6:00 PM

*Current Record 10W - 3L

[LehighFan11]

Friday, September 19

HOLY CROSS @ Harvard
7:00 PM


Saturday, September 20

GEORGETOWN @ Yale
12:30 PM

FORDHAM @ Columbia
12:30 PM

Dartmouth @ COLGATE
1:00 PM

Cornell @ BUCKNELL
6:00 PM

Big game between HC and Harvard, I'd really like to see HC win this one for the PL.

[ngineer]

On the PL Championship.... We shall see. My money is on Fordham until proven otherwise....

The "virus" I spoke of is simply yearning for your team or conference to be more than it is because of some perceived shortcoming. In addition, it causes fans to put down other teams or conferences to make them feel better about their "wannabee" team or conference. For most of AGS, that is the FBS wannabee virus. It manifests itself by fans putting down teams and conferences that they believe to be "inferior" for some reason. Of course these same fans are the very first to cry foul when some FBS fan calls their program "small time". It is really very funny to watch the hypocrisy! Frankly, I am saddened that the virus has caught on in the PL.... There is such fear among many of you that the NEC and PFL now have teams that can compete with the PL that you are all convinced that "going scholarship" is the only way to maintain your edge.... No credit is given whatsoever to the PFL for some of its teams improving greatly over years. You throw a bone to the NEC because they now provide scholarships. Well, just in case you forgot, the PFL champion defeated both the PL champion and the NEC champion last season, with ZERO athletic scholarships. Interesting is it not, that the PFL teams can improve while the PL teams can no longer compete....

I view the concern of PL fans to be that of not closing the gap with the CAA teams in our region. I truly think that some of the PFL teams have always been of the quality to compete with PL teams, and they have shown that. Overall, I see the PL as being a much stronger league from top to bottom. Regardless, a few years back, the vision of many a PL fan was to get 'to the next level' after Lehigh and Colgate made some interesting noise in the playoffs. Unfortunately, we have not been able to push the rock further uphill, and it may have slid downward. It gets old with having 'competitive losses' to teams like Delaware, UMass and Villanova. That gap will never be closed so long as we are restricted in our recruiting. Biddle, Tavani and Coen have all talked of wanting to compete for a national championship, but that is nigh impossible with recruiting limitations

[DFW HOYA]

It gets old with having 'competitive losses' to teams like Delaware, UMass and Villanova. That gap will never be closed so long as we are restricted in our recruiting. Biddle, Tavani and Coen have all talked of wanting to compete for a national championship, but that is nigh impossible with recruiting limitations

When you've restricted schools to an ever-narrowing pool of prospects that aren't being signed in I-A, that haven't opted for a full ride in the CAA (and increasingly, the NEC), or that aren't taking a generous Ivy package instead, it's a byproduct of an eventual decline and fall for these teams.

[Go...gate]

I've heard nothing to indicate that anyone, other than Colgate is 'really' interested in going scholarship. Lehigh's president, to me, seems like a follower on this one, but not sure who. I am afraid, the presidents of the PL prefer to be 'Ivy-like' rather than getting into what is perceived as an acceleration of costs to go scholarship. We already know that you can have quality of academics maintained. Lehigh's wrestling team since going scholarship has increased its academic standing signifcantly.

You hit it right on the head.

[TheValleyRaider]

A 3-2 record last week knocks my record for the season down to a certainly respectable 9-4 on the season. We press on...

Holy Cross at Harvard Holy Cross The Crusaders have definately been the most impressive League team so far, what with their tough showing against UMass. Not only has the Cross already played a game (which Hahvahd has not), it's unlikely the Crimson team (while very good) will be better that the UMass defense HC shredded, or the UMass offense HC needed one good stop against. The Patriot League is undefeated in games not played on Saturday, which should be an added bonus, right?

Georgetown at Yale Yale The Hoyas are much improved, and gave a good Yale team a real scare last season. Still, the Eli have another good squad while Georgetown may still be building. Here's rooting for a good showing and another upset win from DC

Fordham at Columbia Fordham Rams gave a poor showing at Dayton, making mistakes they couldn't afford. I'm not convinced Columbia is as good as Dayton to make Fordham pay for those mistakes again. Of course, I'm not convinced Fordham will actually make those mistakes again. Rams go 2-0 against the light blue on their schedule

Dartmouth at Colgate Colgate The Raiders have certainly struggled to open the season, and the defense in particular has done little to inspire. It should also be pointed out that Dartmouth is unlikely to be anywhere close to as good as the teams Colgate has played so far. Raiders may take a while to get going, but win comfortably at home

Cornell at Bucknell Bucknell The home team has won the last 8 meetings in this series, which includes 4 straight Bison wins in Lewisburg. Cornell also has the tendency to be a poor team on the road. So far Bucknell hasn't impressed by beating middle-of-the-road NEC squads, but is a middle-of-the-road Ivy team really that much better?

[ColgateTD]

Holy Cross - 'Saders too tough
Yale - Running game sinks Hoyas
Fordham - Columbia always weak at home
Colgate - slow start to season is the norm in Hamilton
Cornell - they like to play under the lights

Record so far: 9-4

[LeopardFan04]

Harvard
Yale
Fordham
Colgate
Cornell

[bison137]

Harvard
Yale
Fordham
Colgate
Bucknell

Record so far: 9-3

[hc12]

HC 24-21
yale 31-17
Fordham 34-10
Colgate 24-21
Cornell 21-14

[jdb037]

Harvard 42-35
Yale 17-3
Fordham 21-6
Colgate 27-17
Cornell 28-14

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Harvard 38 Holy Cross 31
Yale 24 Georgetown 7
Fordham 35 Columbia 10
Colgate 27 Dartmouth 17
Cornell 20 Bucknell 10

9-4 overall

[Go...gate]

Holy Cross 30, Harvard 27

Yale 31, Georgetown 13

Fordham 33, Columbia 14

Colgate 20, Dartmouth 19

Bucknell 26, Cornell 21

Lehigh 3, Idle 2

Lafayette 7, Open Date 6

[Ken_Z]

HOLY CROSS 35 @ Harvard 31: Crimson Kharma thrown off when they can't spend Friday night in the library

GEORGETOWN 7 @ Yale 35: Georgetown has a chance to show if they really have improved. Nope.

FORDHAM 31 @ Columbia 17: DetroitFlyer proclaims Dayton the Ivy champion. His impeccable debating skills on display again, he states this is fact based on the Transylvania property.

Dartmouth 20 @ COLGATE 21: 'gate barely escapes this week; diagnosis - much future pain and suffering.

Cornell 14 @ BUCKNELL 21: NEC domination completed, this week the Bison take 'nell bowl 2008.

LAFAYETTE: Bye / LEHIGH: Bye: Carney sleeps comfortably this weekend knowing that Lafayette is better at Bye than Lehigh is. Okay, I don't know what the heck that's supposed to mean, but I promised Carney I wouldn't ignore him.

[LehighFan11]

Holy Cross 30, Harvard 27

Yale 31, Georgetown 13

Fordham 33, Columbia 14

Colgate 20, Dartmouth 19

Bucknell 26, Cornell 21

Lehigh 3, Idle 2

Lafayette 7, Open Date 6

I'm liking that score, I think Lehigh might actually win a game like that this year.

[DetroitFlyer]

HOLY CROSS 35 @ Harvard 31: Crimson Kharma thrown off when they can't spend Friday night in the library

GEORGETOWN 7 @ Yale 35: Georgetown has a chance to show if they really have improved. Nope.

FORDHAM 31 @ Columbia 17: DetroitFlyer proclaims Dayton the Ivy champion. His impeccable debating skills on display again, he states this is fact based on the Transylvania property.

Dartmouth 20 @ COLGATE 21: 'gate barely escapes this week; diagnosis - much future pain and suffering.

Cornell 14 @ BUCKNELL 21: NEC domination completed, this week the Bison take 'nell bowl 2008.

LAFAYETTE: Bye / LEHIGH: Bye: Carney sleeps comfortably this weekend knowing that Lafayette is better at Bye than Lehigh is. Okay, I don't know what the heck that's supposed to mean, but I promised Carney I wouldn't ignore him.

Not yet....

Now, if Holy Cross defeats Harvard and Harvard wins the Ivy and Fordham defeats Holy Cross and wins the PL, then we can talk about my Dayton Flyers being the champions of both the Ivy League and the Patriot League.... SWEET!!!!!:D Gotta love that "Transylvania property"!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2008/09/patriot-league-picks-weekend-of-9202008.html

Adding my hat to this ring this week... though my Patriot League picks up to this point are nothing to write home about, going 4-3 in the early weeks.

(Yes, I picked Fordham to beat Dayton. I also picked the Hoyas to lose to Howard, and Colgate to beat Stony Brook. xmadx)

I'm picking the PL to go 3-2... but they may not be the 3 and 2 you might think.

[CrusaderBob]

A nice rebound last week for me picking everyone but Fordham correctly.

Last Week 4 - 1
This Year 8 - 4

Yale
Fordham
Colgate
Cornell

And tonight …

Last year Holy Cross put up a lot more offense on Harvard than anyone else.
Last year Harvard had their normal offensive output against Holy Cross.

Holy Cross Offense is better this year than last.
Holy Cross defense will be better.

Holy Cross has played a game and had two weeks to preare.

Holy Cross 35
Harvard 24

[LehighFan11]

A nice rebound last week for me picking everyone but Fordham correctly.

Last Week 4 - 1
This Year 8 - 4

Yale
Fordham
Colgate
Cornell

And tonight …

Last year Holy Cross put up a lot more offense on Harvard than anyone else.
Last year Harvard had their normal offensive output against Holy Cross.

Holy Cross Offense is better this year than last.
Holy Cross defense will be better.

Holy Cross has played a game and had two weeks to preare.

Holy Cross 35
Harvard 24
Harvard has had like 9 months lol.

[CrusaderBob]

Harvard has had like 9 months lol.

Must be an Engineer! :p

There's a conjuction prior to the two weeks to prepare that links that fact to another. When taken together as a single idea as intended, Harvard will find that there is nothing to laugh about!

Carry on! xsmiley_wix

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Tough loss for Holy Cross tonight. Harvard went up and down the field against the Crusaders and finally held onto enough in the second half to get the win. Holy Cross deffinately has some defensive issues. Their offense is pretty good but their "D" isdreadful. Lehigh and Holy Cross fans both have to be scratching their heads when it comes to their coaches. Gilmore is a defensive guy yet HC's "D" has been poor, Coen's an offensive coach and the Hawks "O" has been anywhere from bad to terrible.

[CrusaderBob]

The Defense wasn't great, but the offense had the ball inside the Harvard 10 twice in the second half (once first and goal inside the 1) and turned it over both times coming away with zero points.

That's what turned the game. Very disappointing loss.

[98hoya]

Must be an Engineer! :p

There's a conjuction prior to the two weeks to prepare that links that fact to another. When taken together as a single idea as intended, Harvard will find that there is nothing to laugh about!

Carry on! xsmiley_wix

That snide comment would have been better without the dangling preposition. CrusaderBob, do you understand, as they say it in Worcester, "what I speak of?"

[bulldog10jw]

That snide comment would have been better without the dangling preposition. CrusaderBob, do you understand, as they say it in Worcester, "what I speak of?"

I can see you're just going to be a barrel of laughs. xlolx

[98hoya]

I can see you're just going to be a barrel of laughs. xlolx

Yup, I'm hilarious. Not as funny as your anti-Semitic jokes, but pretty funny. I know I shouldn't mess with you though. I mean, a guy who posts 3,000+ times on an Internet message board must have a pretty good grasp of normal behavior.

Edit: Make that 3,700+ times. You get cooler by the minute!

[bulldog10jw]

I mean, a guy who posts 3000+ times on an Internet message board must have a pretty good grasp of normal behavior.

I do, I do. xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx

[98hoya]

I do, I do. xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx xnutsx

Good one. Seriously, you might want to get out a little more. A little less on the Jew-hating from the computer room in your dank basement, a little more on the in-person social interaction with adult human beings.

[bulldog10jw]

Good one. Seriously, you might want to get out a little more.

Seriously? xlolx

OK. Seriously. xreadx

[98hoya]

Seriously? xlolx

OK. Seriously. xreadx

You got me, man. Seriously. You're the king of the 1-AA message board. You have the best jokes about Jews. I bet you've got some good black jokes too, with which you'll also someday honor us (unless you suspect any black people read this board, then you'll hide in your hole until they go away - I suspect you're "one of those"). "This is your thread." They're all your thread.

Tell Aleksey Vayner I said hello. I suspect you two get along famously.

[bulldog10jw]

Tell Aleksey Vayner I said hello. I suspect you two get along famously.

Seriously? xthumbsupx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Tough loss for Holy Cross tonight. Harvard went up and down the field against the Crusaders and finally held onto enough in the second half to get the win. Holy Cross deffinately has some defensive issues. Their offense is pretty good but their "D" isdreadful. Lehigh and Holy Cross fans both have to be scratching their heads when it comes to their coaches. Gilmore is a defensive guy yet HC's "D" has been poor, Coen's an offensive coach and the Hawks "O" has been anywhere from bad to terrible.

Pizzotti torched the secondary for over 300 yards, but the Crimson *did* turn over the ball 4 times and Deep Purple STILL lost. xeekx

I would not have picked the final score to be under 50 points, but that's what happened.

Something tells me that this is going to be a long weekend for the PL... xsmhx

[Go Lehigh TU owl]

Pizzotti torched the secondary for over 300 yards, but the Crimson *did* turn over the ball 4 times and Deep Purple STILL lost. xeekx

I would not have picked the final score to be under 50 points, but that's what happened.

Something tells me that this is going to be a long weekend for the PL... xsmhx

I have to agree that this might be a rough week for the PL. I think reality is really saying the league as a whole has slipped another notch. The top PL teams, Lehigh and Colgate, used to dominate the Ivy League, not anymore. Holy Cross might end up winning the league but i think their 0-2 start shows where this league is nationally. With that said Lafayette (i just threw up a lil in my mouth xpissedx ) might be the best team in the league.

[ngineer]

I have to agree that this might be a rough week for the PL. I think reality is really saying the league as a whole has slipped another notch. The top PL teams, Lehigh and Colgate, used to dominate the Ivy League, not anymore. Holy Cross might end up winning the league but i think their 0-2 start shows where this league is nationally. With that said Lafayette (i just threw up a lil in my mouth xpissedx ) might be the best team in the league.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the top PL teams 'dominated' the Ivies. We certainly won a good number of games over the last 10-15 years, but many were close, hard fought battles as opposed to 42-7 blowouts. Just like last night's game between HC and Harvard. I picked picked that game as a pure toss-up and it was. Someone has to end up on the short stick. We'll know soon enough about Lafayette next week when they play Penn, who will show what they have this week with Villanova. Meanwhile, Princeton as a major test at The Citadel and we get the Tigers next week. So there should be some good barometer games by the end of the month to start doing some real comparisons.

[bison137]

Bucknell just dropped a very disappointing 21-20 decision to Cornell. BU's PK, who entered the season having made 58 consecutive PAT's, missed two of three (one was blocked).

Junior QB Marcello Trigg, who entered the game leading the nation in QB ranking, did nothing to hurt that rating, going 19-27 for 219 yards and 2 TD's with no Int's. Soph WR Shaun Pasternak, who ranked #10 in the nation in receiving yards per game, hauled in 11 passes for 117 yards and 2 TD's. The Bison had little success on the ground however.

Defensively, junior Sam Nana-Sinkam, who missed all of last year with shoulder surgery, continued his great play - 18 tackles and a key interception. The rest of the defense was so-so however. Couldn't get the stop they needed at the end - giving up a 33 yard run on 3rd and 5 with 1:40 left.

[jdb037]

BU's PK, who entered the season having made 58 consecutive PAT's, missed two of three (one was blocked).

Actually he only had two attempts since we went for two on the second TD to make it 14-14.

[bison137]

Actually he only had two attempts since we went for two on the second TD to make it 14-14.



Yep - brainlock on my part. So BU missed two out of two when kicking the PAT. Terrible way to lose.

I didn't see the game. Were either of the snaps/holds iffy?